Revelation Book Study

[sns-becoming]

Dear Bro/Sis -

I've been lurking for sometime now, but would appreciate feedback on dealing with the Revelation Book / Book study and related issues with children.

I have determined that I have nowhere else to go and that my baptism commitment to Jehovah (1998) means that I must continue to carry on in my commitment despite the errors of the human-run organization, but I think it would be much easier said than done when you have a family to consider and train.

My children are young, school-age (though we do this at home) and are intrigued by the book BUT....there's the date issues. Also, my youngest has started having nightmares about the subject matter. I've decided to skip some of the meetings and study other Bible literature when the scary picture dates are being discussed. I don't discuss this with anyone else as the others continue to attend, with kids...it's what you must do. But I don't like my child being so deeping disturbed. It's not just at night. He discusses his nightmares and concerns in TEARS to me. It is a deep worry for him.

Since I've taken some breaks from the meetings on nights I felt would be too scary, he's been doing better, though I feel torn for not going.

ALSO, I've hesitated telling too much of my concerns as they are so open in speaking to others of what they learn that I know I'd be pulled in the back room for you know....the lashing. Also, I want to be sure of what I say and have a plan as to the aftermath so to speak - how my kids talk/behave around others with the information.

At this point, I realize that I have doubt (thus lack of faith?? OH MY!) that I can't wholly articulate and I wish I had more time to devote to ironing it all out but my life circumstances make me feel spread so very thin right now.

My husband has been deelping affected since I found all this out, though he still supports 1914, but rarely attends any meeting now. I attend and stuggle with service, but have great difficulting getting through this book, especially with my kids.

How are you presenting this material to your children? Your family?

I feel like I'm in a corner awaiting the big scolding for all my sins. Prior to my baptism, I had trouble with all these dates, but had no trouble with other issues and so I decided that it must be true, I'm just too prideful to accept it and will work on it....I see the calculations and the world wars, etc., but the 1919, 1923, etc. is so hard for me.

I have told my children so far that 1914 is a theory, but not a fact and later my son started to repeat this during a book study. Thankfully I was able to quiet him before anyone focused on what he said...so far.

Thank you for your consideration of one mom's late night ramblings and heartfelt concerns.

SNS-Becoming

[TheCook]

...
At this point, I realize that I have doubt (thus lack of faith?? OH MY!) that I can't wholly articulate and I wish I had more time to devote to ironing it all out but my life circumstances make me feel spread so very thin right now.
...[/b]

I have no children of my own, so that makes it hard for me to give any practical advice about that, but I can tell you that you don't need to be worried about your faith, as far as I can tell from your concerns. The simple fact that you're worried about losing your faith shows your love for Jehovah and your desire to please Him. If you went on with your life with no worries about your spiritual health, now that would be troublesome.

You sound to me like a loving parent with a strong faith, with some doubts about the Society's teachings. You have a lot of friends here in that same situation, some of whom I'm sure struggle with the same problem - openness to others about it.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be to try to teach your children the truth, and at the same time feeling that the Society's "truth" isn't completely your own. Keep on trying though, sister! Pray to Jehovah and let him know your worries, and be confident that he will set things right in his own time.

[Eli's Foe]

Hello SNS-Becoming,

I sympathize with what you have written. My wife and I discovered this site a year ago when it was reestablished by eWatchman. We had stopped attending the meetings in November 06 after a long period of being unhappy with the way things were organised as well as some dissatisfaction with some of the teachings. We then obtained a degree of satisfaction from reading Robert's essays etc. I say a degree of satisfaction because as is often the case, discovering the truth immediately puts you at odds with the WTS and somewhat with your brothers and sisters (even if you dont say anything) - and that isn't entirely comfortable either.

I have a young teenage daughter (and two older children), at this point she is aware that we are not attending the meetings (because for my wife and I it is not feasible, for reasons I would rather not reveal here for the sake of maintaining some anonymity) but is not entirely clear what we now believe. I would mention that although inactive in WTS terms we are otherwise in good standing.

Of course for some time, I did not want to confuse my youngest daughter with another "truth" which in time I might find was equally deceptive, so she has rather been in limbo. I am now of course convinced about the correctness of much of what Robert has written and realise like you that I must now instill some of the new truth in her. I think this is important because who can tell whether during the GT she will need to make a stand on her own. The thing is that some of what we have learned here is quite deep, so I have been giving a great deal of thought to how I can go about this effectively.

You might think that because she is older than your children and we are not attending the meetings that this will not present a problem, but in fact she associated with Witnesses at school and in the wider family so it is still a bit of a tightrope. The bottom line though is that she needs to know where she stands with Jehovah and how she relates to his people.

I understand your predicament with your children making inopportune comments if you still attend the meetings. You may be underestimating your children somewhat however. For example, my children always knew that they should avoid telling young children at school that there was no Santa Claus - they needed to respect the value and beliefs of others though they themselves knew better. They were then quite young of course but they never fell down on this principle. The same situation can apply in their association with brothers and sisters I am sure. You just need to be careful about explaining in terms they can understand why they must keep what they know to themselves at present. Not easy I know, but what choice do you really have?? My eldest daughter who is also a member of this DB has a new baby in her family, she faces the same issues. As Witnesses we have always pointed out how (using the Santa Claus analogy again) parents lie to their children until such time that they need to burst the bubble about Father Christmas. How can we than lie to our children (about 1914, the ousting of Satan etc etc) and then later tell them actually all that is a lie - here is the truth. We cant can we? So my daughter has no choice but to teach her child carefully from the outset. Just my thoughts!

Best wishes to you sister and welcome.

EF

[Viking]

some of the study material is really not good for children,

just a fortnight ago they studied in the WT matters of oral sex in the congregation. The comments and explanations from the conductor were everything else than good.What must children in the age of 6-10 years know about sexual practice?
That is surely quite a thing alone for the parents in a private dialog with the children and not publicly with a comment of the conductor that Joseph in Egypt has not done it in 69 position with Potiphars wife.

I reject those kind of education. I think it is clearly said what is porneia. So it must not be explained in detail like oral sex. And the children hear it and get confused.
Applause to to the WT. They now even make sex education for all ages with commentaries for everybody.

how far are they sunk into the mud of betterknowledge.

[Alex]

Welcome SNS,

You have raised a valid issue, especially about the effect some studies have on children.

I was very young when I went to my first meeting, and my Mother was and is very zealous for the 'truth.'

Thirty or more years ago, the books we studied were heavy going, pictures were sparse and there were realms of text to read through.

However, even Mum back then realised some material was 'over the head' of children, hence did not focus on it too much with us, particularly if the symbolisms could cause nightmares. We have to realise some children are more sensitive than others, therefore we adapt to the needs of the child.

Did it do me any harm that Mum did not explain to me the intricate details of Revelation at an early age? Did it harm me that she did not take me along to the book study regularly in the days when we studied the epic 'Babylon the Great Has Fallen'?

To both questions I answer 'No.' Why? Because Mum focused with me the matters which are really important in learning the 'truth'. Love for God, Christ and humanity. If you keep teaching such basics to your children, without getting weighed down with the technicalities, and burdening yourself with a guilt trip because you cannot meet the schedule the Watchtower offers us, then you will experience much joy in teaching your children, and your children will in turn find the 'truth' a joy to behold.

May Jehovah bless your efforts,

Brotherly affection, Alex.

[sns-becoming]

Thank you for your encouragement. It's been a long road since finding out about the NGO issue back in April 2004. I've been on and off board since and now am back on as I have no where to discuss these issues and the cross roads that I'm at.

As to this issue, my children have tried to "enlighten" other children at times about Santa, thus I have been concerned that explaining which teachings are at this point only theories that they may try to "help" others or repeat out loud at inopportune times - case in point at book study last week regarding 1914 "theory". I do stress the difference between theories and confirmed truth, but honestly I have hesitated about into naming all the theories resting on 1914 though I feel this is going to have to come to a head soon.

For those of you who have chosen to be inactive, at least you are in some ways being honest about your position. I feel guilty for living a lie and feel a great deal of pressure - I'm disobeying by being here -- faithful in least, faithful in much. I do believe WT really teaches 1914 is a theory and not absolute, but that it is morphing into accepted truth and developing a rift among believers.

So I guess it all means I'm weak, obviously not as obedient as I need to be and need to strengthen myself. I DEEPLY appreciate the encouragement to not stress the Revelation book with my young children where too scary, too deep or wandering around the 1914 issue to much.

It's a difficult balance to introduce this to children. How will they be able to be baptized if they can't state the new answers? I had different answers back in 1998. I will continue to pray for wisdom and guidance. For now, I am focusing on early Bible history/chronology - history of Jewish nation and the life of Jesus and early Christians.

I feel that I need to reorganize and clip pictures to make a children's Revelation study book, chronology book.

Thank you again.

SNS-Becoming

[Peter]

just a fortnight ago they studied in the WT matters of oral sex in the congregation. The comments and explanations from the conductor were everything else than good.What must children in the age of 6-10 years know about sexual practice?[/b]

I have to say I was quite put out by the Watchtower article on oral sex, I thought it was unnecessary. I felt for the parents who had to explain to their child the meaning of the word. Just think of a family BS and a six year old asking what it meant. Why fill the children’s mind with these things at a young age. The article should have been a subsidiary one instead.

Nice to have you here SNS-Becoming

[sns-becoming]

We chose not to attend the meeting or to study that watchtower together and instead study other things at home. My kids are under 10 and I felt it was not appropriate. I'm dodging the subject on TV, schools and now in the KH.

SNS-Becoming

[billy]

Welcome sns-becoming

You apper to have much common sense - and can discern what is appropriate for you and your families situation

the wto has tricked many of us into thinking if we have different views and opinions on their bible interpretation that we are unfaithful to Jehovah - i'm realizing more and more that this isnt true

doubting Thomas was a good example of an approved disciple of Jesus who even doubted His appearance and ressurection -

knowledge is not the prime quality - love is

christian love to you and your family

sister Billy

[Deborah]

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[Deborah]

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[Eli's Foe]

I am sorry that I come on a little strong. If my mother says, "Well the society says..." one more time I think I will scream.[/b]

Dont worry Deborah, sometimes we all need to let out our frustrations - I know I do!!
EF :ranting2:

[DoubtingThomas]

I feel for you and the situation you are in Deborah. It appears that you are being balanced in the way you are handling the situations that life has dealt to you. I really don't have too much more to offer in the way of a suggestion to you. It seems that you have matter's figured out and well in hand at the present time. Perhaps the only other words of encouragement I might add (and you are likely aware of this already) is to remember that the Watchtowers rules and regulations (on baptism requirements and meeting formalities) are nothing more than a man-made religion. True, it is God's organization. But it is still just a bunch of imperfect humans that have tried to organize themselves into a group of worshipers of the true God Jehovah. And in doing so they have laid "command upon command and measuring line upon measuring line".

DT</span></div>
</span>

[billy]

Hello Debrah

I can relate to so much of what you have written - the wto is one directional - you only fit in if you are particular type of person - if one has emotional problems you are criticzited and judged and not much support is given especially if you are struggling with children and they have problems too - I left the wto 20 years ago with 3 young children because i wasnt coping with all their expectations and constantly feeling not good enough and lack of support - i just got so depressed i walked away from it all - there was one sister at the time who did help me out when she could but she also struggled with a disfellowshipped husband and a difficult situation - i got quite angry when the elders blamed her for my wanting to leave - if it hadnt been for her i proberbly would have left earlier

it doesnt help when one has been raised in a disfunctional family - because there has been no proper role model and training on how to deal with life - usually one falls into a similar disfunctional pattern - Dr. Phil calls it inheriting our family&#39;s legacy - i often watch Super Nanny - and get to see how to train children with love and healthy discipline

I came back to the org 5 years ago and found not much has changed in the wto - love is not the main focus - knowledge is - the same aritfical behavior and lack of understanding and concern for those struggling -i see alot of arrogance - judgemental attitudes - people are judged for meeting attendance and hours in field service - formality of worship - i bought into that form of appoval for years - but i&#39;ve also learned that one can serve Jehovah and be a follower of Jesus without the wto condesending aritficial law code

I will pm you

[panda]

knowledge is not the prime quality - love is

christian love to you and your family

sister Billy[/b]Yes I agree, it is love that is the true Christian identity. And welcome sbecoming. :Zwarte Roos:

I agree also that the w/s study on oral sex was not only unnecessary but a stumbling block, we were at a circuit assembly when the article was studied, the w/t was talking about conscience and how we should be mindful not to stumble others as there are different levels of spirituality and we should be loving and thoughtful not to press our conscience on others. Well what hypocrisy, and felt so bad for the parents and children the new ones and those just baptized it was also thoughtless, and stupid. :icon_redface:

[panda]

I don&#39;t remember the Eunich having to go to four months of consecutive meetings and turn in several months of time before he asked what was holding him back from his baptism.
Love, Deborah[/b]Hi Deborah, you have shown so much faith and strength, thank you for your courage to open up to us here, your faith will be rewarded. The society wants to control, and all these rules they enforce is a way to beat you into submission. Love for Jehovah and obedience to His word follow Christs example and respect for others is all that should be required. If you have made that dedication in your heart, that is what Jehovah sees and wants.

Love to you and your family, and chin up Jehovah knows his sheep thats all that matters. :Zwarte Roos:

[Nambo]

Actually, when I look back, it was often those "weak in the truth" that where the most hospitable, the most Loving, the most Christian.

What was it Jesus said about identifing his Disciples?

[sns-becoming]

Hi Deborah - Thank you for sharing so openly. The cruelty that abounds in this world is just depressing. We so need Jehovah&#39;s kingdom now.

How heartwarming and encouraging to know that your kids have taken a hold of the faith in Jehovah despite the circumstances. It gives me hope too.

It is a wonder about your baptism issue though. When I was studying I traveled for my work on average of 170 days per year and while traveling was rarely able to attend a meeting. I was held back from baptism for using a King James Bible for a while....I lived around Catholics and wanted to be able to learn the truth in the Bible my mother gave me so that I could show them what I learned - also I lived in a heavily Catholic area. I used a reference, Scofield Bible that would indicate changes to the manuscript in the footnotes.

I did delay it once myself b/c I felt pushed, and had some issues with some elders telling my that the informal service I did while traveling didn&#39;t really count as much as formal service.

I moved and changed halls (for other reasons) and circuits and the new hall had no problem with my using a KJ Bible or traveling and approved me right away after questions for the next opportunity to get baptized. They appreciated my attendance and service when in town, though service was rarely over the average, and usually less than it.

I don&#39;t know if this would be a similar case for you.

Deborah, hang in there. It sounds like you have some very compassionate children and obviously they are that way in large part due to you.

May Jehovah bless your efforts.

SNS-Becoming

[Dorcas]

Hello to all who are on this thread,
Two issues concern me on this thread:
the first concerning our committment to Jehovah, etc. The new question at the time of baptism asks people if they recognize the GB as Jehovah&#39;s channel for guidance. The first one concerns our private dedication to Jehovah. I feel very deeply about my dedication to Jehovah and would never break it. The 2nd should give us all cause for thought...Would Jehovah actually accept and be pleased by our "dedicating" ourselves to a GB thay doesn&#39;t even have the humility to admit when they make mistakes. I have watched as they have played around with the "1914" date, the NGO membership, and other issues too many to name. I, for one, do not want to be hanging on to the skirt of the harlot as she trots along on the back of the scarlet-colored wild beast. We must not forget who the scarlet wild beast represents (the UN)-- although I think the WTS has!!
My other issue addresses the RC book. I think some of the friends have studied that book 3 or 4 times. My eldest child has left the "truth", my elder son is an elder and bookstudy conductor. I am in his bookstudy and have refused to go. I don&#39;t want to HEARlies, or be forced to TEACH lies. My third child stayed home with his father in the past.
The WTS has provided much good information to us in the past -- no hellfire, no immortal soul, no trinity, etc., but where it gets into trouble is when it starts to teach its imterpretations as though they were doctrinal "truths".
I shall get off my soap box now, but hope I&#39;ve been of some help.
Love you all, Dorcas http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_7_205.gif