Pedophilia In The Organization

[DoubtingThomas]

Child abuse is a terrible problem in our society today, and the abductions of children are constantly making news headlines. Individuals within Jehovah’s organization are not immune to these problems. The Watchtower’s handing of child abuse cases within the organization has come under scrutiny by the news media through efforts of The Silent Lambs and similar organizations and individuals. But I have a question that should be considered by all. I hope someone may have an answer to it.



Is there any reason to believe that there is a higher percentage of child molesters or pedophiles within the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, than there is in the world in general? In other words, are pedophiles perhaps attracted to the organization, because many of our brothers and sisters are so trusting of others, and not as careful at protecting their children, as they should be? Or is pedophilia less of a problem among Jehovah’s Witnesses because we are in a so-called “spiritual paradise”?



I have not seen any reason to indicate that the answers to these questions are yes. But I have often wondered about these things, and wondered if there has ever been any studies or surveys on the percentage of pedophilia occurring within the walls of the Watchtower organization, as compared to society in general. I thought this would make an interesting thread, and would like to see what others think about these matters.

My personal beliefs on this is that the problem is no greater or no less than the world in general. It has just been mishandled and become a PR nightmare for the WTBTS.

[watchman]

What difference does it make if there are more or less pedophiles in the org than in the world? The fact is, there are a lot.

J.R. Brown claims that child abuse is "an evil of our time" and implies that Jehovah's Witnesses are no more affected than any other segment of society. That may or may not be true. But the point I have always emphasized is that if Jehovah's Witnesses are really in the spiritual paradise that the prophecies foretell then there shouldn't be any sort of evil predators among us -- sexual or otherwise.

In J.R. Brown's saying that the evil Jehovah's Witnesses are afflicted with is no worse than the evils that afflict the world in general he is inadvertantly admitting that Jehovah's Witnesses are not in a spiritual paradise. So, in that regard the Society is perpetuating a fraud against Jehovah's Witnesses.

Watchman

[DoubtingThomas]

You make a very good and valid point. As far as what difference it makes - it makes none in Jehovah's eyes as far as the culpability and judgment of His people are considered. But my intent in raising the topic is out of curiosity as far as the severity of the problem as compared to the world. Any child abuse not handled properly is bad as far as it concerns Jehovah's people. But do you think pedophiles are attracted to the organization? Do you think the problem might be even worse among JW's than it is in the world? I agree 100% that claiming a spiritual paradise while child abuse is happening is perpetuating a fraud against Jehovah's Witnesses. I hope I made that point clear in my first post too.

[Jeshurun]

I believe that I have seen the numbers, probably one of Watchman's commentaries, and the stats indicate that the problem is no worse or better than other religions, but of course stats don't tell the whole story because many have not come forward. If anything though, I would think that a larger percentage would come forward in Christendom, since the problem is so well known for so long now.

The ministry is something that pedophiles are attracted to for many different reasons. A guilty conscience may cause someone to try to be as close to God as possible, and others may do it simply to be in trusted positions of close proximity to vulnerable ones, just as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I would imagine that if a pedophile did find our organization attractive, the main reason would be the knowledge of how the Society is protecting them.

I spent so many years as an active Witness and never had a clue about all of this. The JW hate sites out there are so filled with vehemence and vitriol that any rational person cannot give them credence. Only Robert's writings and a few other websites have allowed me to discover what's really happening, and I never would have believed that even one pedophile could be among Jehovah's Witnesses with not only the Society's knowledge but also their protection. It makes no sense at all, and just like the Ngo isue, one has to scratch their head and wonder what the Society possibly can gain from it, other than trouble.

[Molly]

Good Morning All-

Whether the problem of pedophiles is worse or not among JWs is not the point. Pedophiles are an evil part of the culture today, but most of the time when they are exposed, they are rooted out and removed from society. Just as there was with the Catholics, with JWs there is a conspiracy of silence and protection for the pervert instead of help for the victim. It is a twisted sense of duty at best.

Molly

[Excaliber]

Yea !!!
There is only 6 million of us all over the world.
We dont need to have as many reports of it as say catholics..with a billion of there members. But the fact that we hide it and catholics dont. That fact make it worse here.

[Jinnvisible]

........ do you think pedophiles are attracted to the organization? Do you think the problem might be even worse among JW's than it is in the world? I agree 100% that claiming a spiritual paradise while child abuse is happening is perpetuating a fraud against Jehovah's Witnesses.[/b]

Hi,

I think you are talking about proliferation of numbers.

However the crime of child abuse amongst the congregations of Jehovah`s witnesses is, i feel, worse than in the world, disregarding statistics.

A congregation of Jehovah`s Christian witnesses is advertised as a moraly clean environment with all kinds of wonderfull expectations. This in conection with the holy name of God. The speech in the community is a constant re-affirmation of that. So to rape a child in that spiritual environment would be much worst than outside of those circumstances. It would be a greater disparity in the childs understanding of life, therefore resulting in greater trauma.

This logic does not work backwards incidentaly. It is a morally twisted apprehension to apply that it would be better for a `worldly child` to be raped than a child in the congregation. Although this kind of thinking does raise it`s ugly head as a result of Pharasaic leven. It is the circumstances that are pertinent. Also - children - should not be baptised, so this crime against God and humanity can be placed within one context inside or out of the cong.

As to whether the actual numbers of crimes are higher inside or outside of the congregations i think that would be a very difficuly question to answer. The register at bethel is a record of accusation not guilt. It may differ from country to country. Many crimes in `the world` also go unreported. For instance the age of consent in Holland is 14. So how an act becomes a statistic, and actually quailfies for child abuse rather than adult rape is itself questionable.

However one thing seems very clear to me, if a person with true sincerity of mind, and familiarity of the situation could even ask the question that you originally posed (as a genuine question of concern).

In that case, in the light of what the society claims about the congregations, something has to be very wrong doesn`t it?

[DoubtingThomas]

And probably the biggest wrong is that these despicable acts are being committed against the children of unsuspecting parents who have been trained to trust others because we are in a so-called “spiritual paradise” where these things just don’t happen. At least that is what many brainwashed brothers and sisters have been led to believe by the WTBTS.

[Kenneth]

The problems is that if you were to use the argument that this couldn't happen in spiritual paradise they would just say back to you that the spiritual paradise refers to the abundance of spiritual food that has been provided by the slave class now. And if individuals choose to do wrong that's not the fault of the society. This is the way the mindset works among JWs. My point is if we were in paradise why are JWs so riddled with problems such as depression and other such things, Jesus told us not to be anxious about tomorrow yet so many are. When one gets into the mindset of JWs we begin to understand their line of reason on matters as to why they are so convinced they are in spiritual paradise now. Of course that illusion will soon be shattered.

Kenneth

[Berean]

For instance the age of consent in Holland is 14.[/b]
Just wanted to set that straight; it's actually 16 over here. But you're right in saying that different countries have different rules, and there are countries in which the age of consent is 14, many of which are supposedly civilized countries.

[Jinnvisible]

Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia & Croatia. it`s 14 according to wikipedia.

Further on the list it clains in Spain age of consent is 13, Malta 12, Here`s the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

[DoubtingThomas]

Watchman had some good points on this happenning in our spiritual paradise in his essay "Sodom or A 'Spiritual Paradise' - Which". Here is part of his qoute from that essay:

Frankly, and to the point: If we were in a spiritual paradise, would there be animalistic sexual predators in our congregations stalking our young men and women, and yes, even infants? Would there be faithless apostates lurking among us placing their stumbling blocks in our path? If even one case of child abuse or fornication were to take place, wouldn't that be an indication that we were not on any Highway of Holiness? Surely, it is not too much to expect our Christian brothers to be trustworthy in that respect? In the coming physical paradise after the war of Armageddon, when the meek inherit the earth, are we to expect that there will be occasional cases of child rape and defrauding on the part of human predators? If not, then why do we imagine that God's Highway of Holiness is anything less?

To help us reason on this matter, we ought to ask a few pertinent questions, such as: Just what do we mean by spiritual paradise anyway? Has there ever been a so-called spiritual paradise on earth?

Here is the link to the above mentioned essay:

http://e-watchman.com/essays/jehovahs-witn...l-paradise.html (http://e-watchman.com/essays/jehovahs-witnesses-sodom-or-spiritual-paradise.html)

[Dorcas]

Child abuse is a terrible problem in our society today, and the abductions of children are constantly making news headlines. Individuals within Jehovah's organization are not immune to these problems. The Watchtower's handing of child abuse cases within the organization has come under scrutiny by the news media through efforts of The Silent Lambs and similar organizations and individuals. But I have a question that should be considered by all. I hope someone may have an answer to it.



Is there any reason to believe that there is a higher percentage of child molesters or pedophiles within the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, than there is in the world in general? In other words, are pedophiles perhaps attracted to the organization, because many of our brothers and sisters are so trusting of others, and not as careful at protecting their children, as they should be? Or is pedophilia less of a problem among Jehovah's Witnesses because we are in a so-called "spiritual paradise"?



I have not seen any reason to indicate that the answers to these questions are yes. But I have often wondered about these things, and wondered if there has ever been any studies or surveys on the percentage of pedophilia occurring within the walls of the Watchtower organization, as compared to society in general. I thought this would make an interesting thread, and would like to see what others think about these matters.

My personal beliefs on this is that the problem is no greater or no less than the world in general. It has just been mishandled and become a PR nightmare for the WTBTS.[/b]

[Dorcas]

<div class='quotemain'>Child abuse is a terrible problem in our society today, and the abductions of children are constantly making news headlines. Individuals within Jehovah&#39;s organization are not immune to these problems. The Watchtower&#39;s handing of child abuse cases within the organization has come under scrutiny by the news media through efforts of The Silent Lambs and similar organizations and individuals. But I have a question that should be considered by all. I hope someone may have an answer to it.



Is there any reason to believe that there is a higher percentage of child molesters or pedophiles within the congregations of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, than there is in the world in general? In other words, are pedophiles perhaps attracted to the organization, because many of our brothers and sisters are so trusting of others, and not as careful at protecting their children, as they should be? Or is pedophilia less of a problem among Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses because we are in a so-called "spiritual paradise"?



I have not seen any reason to indicate that the answers to these questions are yes. But I have often wondered about these things, and wondered if there has ever been any studies or surveys on the percentage of pedophilia occurring within the walls of the Watchtower organization, as compared to society in general. I thought this would make an interesting thread, and would like to see what others think about these matters.

My personal beliefs on this is that the problem is no greater or no less than the world in general. It has just been mishandled and become a PR nightmare for the WTBTS.[/b]
[/b][/quote]

[Dorcas]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Child abuse is a terrible problem in our society today, and the abductions of children are constantly making news headlines. Individuals within Jehovah&#39;s organization are not immune to these problems. The Watchtower&#39;s handing of child abuse cases within the organization has come under scrutiny by the news media through efforts of The Silent Lambs and similar organizations and individuals. But I have a question that should be considered by all. I hope someone may have an answer to it.



Is there any reason to believe that there is a higher percentage of child molesters or pedophiles within the congregations of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, than there is in the world in general? In other words, are pedophiles perhaps attracted to the organization, because many of our brothers and sisters are so trusting of others, and not as careful at protecting their children, as they should be? Or is pedophilia less of a problem among Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses because we are in a so-called "spiritual paradise"?



I have not seen any reason to indicate that the answers to these questions are yes. But I have often wondered about these things, and wondered if there has ever been any studies or surveys on the percentage of pedophilia occurring within the walls of the Watchtower organization, as compared to society in general. I thought this would make an interesting thread, and would like to see what others think about these matters.

My personal beliefs on this is that the problem is no greater or no less than the world in general. It has just been mishandled and become a PR nightmare for the WTBTS.[/b]
[/b][/quote]
[/b][/quote]

Dear Doubting Thomas,
Your subject is one near and dear to my heart. One member mentioned that child sexual abuse is no worse than the world&#39;s. Here, I thought we weren&#39;t to be like the world, that our standards are higher than the world&#39;s. I have been associated with the society 35 years and find the a number of our sisters were sexually molested as children -- my own daughter included! I trusted my daughter to a pioneer brother to go in service. Others were molested by elders and were afraid that if they "told", they wouldn&#39;t be believed. Any parents of young children need to beware of letting their children be alone with brothers. How sad that so much of the world corupting our "spiritual families".
I&#39;m glad to be back on the board again. One question I have...how do we identify the "woman" in Gen. 3:15? If Jehovah is not husband to the angelic host, through what woman is Gen. 3:15 to be revealed?
Love to all searchers for truth,
Dorcas

[DoubtingThomas]

Welcome back to the Discussion Board Dorcas. I can share your pain, as I too have had a very close family member sexually abused by another so-called Christian, and then further abused by the Societies two-witness rule and policy on the handling of child abuse cases before a JC. And it appears to be the consensus of most members on this forum that it really does not matter if there are more or less cases in the organization than in the world, because of the fact that ANY cases at all prove that we are not in a Spiritual Paradise. If we were living in a true Spiritual Paradise not even one child would be harmed by a sexual predator. But I still did not get a clear consensus to the question on my original post - Are sexual predators perhaps attracted to the organization due to Jehovah&#39;s people being so trusting and innocent with others in the Kingdom Hall, thinking that no baptized Christian would ever molest one of their children? Are some Christian parents perhaps letting their guards down with trusting others that they should be more careful letting their children be alone with? I know that my wife and I were always careful with who are children associated with when we were raising them. They are adults now, and I am happy to say that their Mother and I did a good job of protecting them as they have never been sexually molested.

[whoowh]

Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia & Croatia. it`s 14 according to wikipedia.

Further on the list it clains in Spain age of consent is 13, Malta 12, Here`s the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe[/b]


Sweden
The age of consent in Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) is 15


but we are not supposed civilized countrie , we are viking, the evil nordmen!! :ban_dance01:

[arimatthewdavies]

I will contribute to the qustion of why their is so much abuses reported ..
#1 jehovahs people are in jesus words the sheep. wolves are atracted to sheep.
#2apostates and people seeking revenge for disfellowshiping make it a point to add as many bad comments as they can.
#3 other religions have as their members goatlike people who have little true morals so naturaly the vast number of cases go unreported.
#4 the whole world is watching jehovahs witnesses far more attention is given to us way more than any other group of people.
#5 from personal expeiriance children are told not to tell because it would bring reproach on jehovah.
#6 satan wants to soil the name of jehovah any way he can

jehovahs witnesses need to make it a point that if you are an abuser among us you will be caught disfellowshiped and turned over to the police,the kingdom hall must be a place of saftey and give plenty of information to the children that if they are abused they can go to so and so without the fear that the abuser will punish them when they get home as is often the case.

[Peter]

I just picked this up off Topix, I haven’t read of resent cases, but then I don’t take that much notice of what’s going on. Does anyone know of recent cases, or is this the end of the matter.


We are now approaching 14 years without an incident. I think enough time has gone by to conclude that the JW policy and the maintaining of a database absolutely protects children. When Christa Brown of SNAP calls for all religions to adopt a database she is 100% correct in that it does indeed protect children. It is irresponsible to deamonize the one religion that has demonstated remarkable success in this area. It discourages other religions from adopting similar policies and in the long run hurts children

[Jeshurun]

I just picked this up off Topix, I haven’t read of resent cases, but then I don’t take that much notice of what’s going on. Does anyone know of recent cases, or is this the end of the matter.

I don't know what the hell this Watchtower shrill is talking about. The reports still come in on almost a daily basis.

Jesh