Holy Spirit Is Jehovah?

[scriptures]

(2Co 3:17 RV) Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

(2Co 3:18 RV) But we all, with unveiled face reflecting as a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.


Is this a proof that the Holy spirit is YHWH?

If you know the answer or any website that answers, please let me know...



Thanks....

[Eli's Foe]

Hi Scriptures,

maybe I'm misunderstanding your question but this seems to me a simple matter of logic rather than a scriptural issue pers se.

Holy spirit is God's active force but God is by definition a spirit rather than a physical entity. I suppose one way to reason on this is to think about ourselves. I can achieve things by using the strength in my arms for example, so my physical strength is my active force - it is the means by which I achieve my goals. Without my physical vitality I would be nothing and yet I am more than just muscle and sinew. I see Jehovah in the same way, he is a spirit and being such and Holy is a Holy Spirit but he is so much more than that.

This is why the Trinitarian view of the Holy Spirit as a person is flawed. Jesus is a self contained reasoning being although made of the same substance as his Father. The Holy Spirit does not have that capacity in itself, it is directly from the Father. Part of the problem is the constraints of the English language in that we must use the same words to describe what Jehovah is, and how he achieves things using the same basic word, spirit.

EF

[Peter]

"Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom"

I came across this passage of text some weeks ago on utube by some guy called Shazoolo, he seemed preoccupied with witnesses.

There are so many passages of text that disprove the blasphemy of the trinity that any thinking bible students should be able to put 2Co 3:17 in context with no great difficulty, even when thrown at them unexpectedly in the ministry.

I've listened to most of the Trinitarian arguments and in all honesty there a joke. :n:

[scriptures]

I was just surprised it was never taken up in our wt.

and when I checked the web I can't find any...

althought practicallity can easily answer this...

but if you know any article or web that details this just let me know

thnks

[Jinnvisible]

(2Co 3:17 RV) Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

(2Co 3:18 RV) But we all, with unveiled face reflecting as a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.


Is this a proof that the Holy spirit is YHWH?

If you know the answer or any website that answers, please let me know...



Thanks....[/b]

King James Version

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matthew 5:13 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">) supports the assertion made. The scripture as quoted actually talks about something emminating from the Lord, doesn&#39;t that more suggest a force?

This has always seemed odd to me. People feel sunshine yet do they say or believe a piece of the sun was on them ? Is it really hard to understand the concept that a spirit being can be singular and yet eminate a force in the same way that the sun is singular and yet eminates light and heat ? yet you could still make the statement that `the sun is the light and heat` comparable with 2 Cor 3:17 quoted.

Holy spirit is written about in scripture as being on and within people. As God&#39;s active forces this is understandible to me. Yet depicting Holy spirit as an actuall `person` becomes worrisome. The only `spirit people` that want to get inside people are demonic evil ones. Were have you seen it written that an angel went inside a person ?

I&#39;m not surprised that doctrinal mindsets evolved suggesting that the bible teaches its good for a person to come and live inside you, but it is a bit sinister to my mind. If you want to talk about Jesus or God being in people in a figurative way then thats your own decision. The bible speaks more of the love of God / Life / Light / Righteousness / Truth, being inside people than it does about &#39;good spirit people or persons&#39; living inside people. Even where the bible says things like &#39;Godless men&#39;. What about a bankless or carless man ? Does that mean he doesn&#39;t have a bank or car living inside him ?

[scriptures]

thanks

[arimatthewdavies]

i have a qustion here ive been in a few churches that believe in the trinity father,son spirit, are all expresions of the same being, and ive been taught that they are totaly seperate beings. but ive yet to see the importance of the argument ,both sides ascribe the father as god. the son as jesus. and the holy ghost as the spirit sent by god. the trinitarian story is that god the father metamorphs to become one of three rightous beings ,the other side says god created 2 other sepeate beings to help him.. but my point is what unrightous deed does the trinatarian god do vs the other version?

[James]

i have a qustion here ive been in a few churches that believe in the trinity father,son spirit, are all expresions of the same being, and ive been taught that they are totaly seperate beings. but ive yet to see the importance of the argument ,both sides ascribe the father as god. the son as jesus. and the holy ghost as the spirit sent by god. the trinitarian story is that god the father metamorphs to become one of three rightous beings ,the other side says god created 2 other sepeate beings to help him.. but my point is what unrightous deed does the trinatarian god do vs the other version?

It's not what God does but, what man does to God.

(Isaiah 42:8) 8 “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, . . .

[panda]

Thought this was very good article.



Breath

The Greek word pneuma (as in pneumonia, a breathing disease) means breath or wind – the movement of air. In other Bible translations, this word is often translated as spirit or ghost, as in Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. However, spirit is just a shortened form of the Latin word spiritu, which just means breath in Latin. And ghost conveys another meaning altogether.
The most common use of the word pneuma in the Bible is to imply an unseen force (such as breath or wind). And the problem with translating it as spirit or ghost is that many people have started believing that the unseen force that is called [God’s] Holy Breath herein, is another God-like person and part of a Divine ‘Trinity.’ This can’t be true, because the only scripture that can be used to support this theory (that is, where the Father, the Son, and the Holy Breath’ are spoken of together) is found at Matthew 28:19, which appears to be spurious (See the Note in Matthew (http://www.2001translation.com/MATTHEW.htm#_name)). All other scriptures that are used to prove the Trinity theory fail to mention the Holy Breath as part of that group. And the King James wording of 1 John 5:7 (http://www.2001translation.com/FIRST_JOHN.htm#_Why_was_1_John_5:7_Changed?) (which was used for years to attempt to prove the Trinity) is also spurious (something that was added to the Bible). So, then there are no actual Bible references that mention God’s Holy Breath along with the Father and the Son.
So to prevent confusion, the Greek word pneuma is frequently translated as breath herein. However, there are exceptions, as in instances where the Bible refers to demons as ‘spirits.’ Translating pneuma as breath in these cases, although correct, might just be confusing. There are also places where we have left pneuma translated as spirit, when the word implies a person's tendency (or spirit). And, since the nuance implied by the word Spirit in the English language (an unseen power) is correct, we recently changed back to translating pneuma as Spirit in several places, when referring to God’s Holy Spirit. However, recognize that pneuma is often best defined by calling it [God’s] Holy Breath. For an example, see the Note Worshiping God In Spirit and Truth (http://www.2001translation.com/JOHN.htm#_Spirit_Truth).
Another important use of the word pneuma is in the phrase, ‘Breath of Life.’ This phrase means more than just breathing; it refers to the entire mechanics of life itself. It’s the unseen force of life for all creatures… it’s what makes each cell alive. However, nowhere does the Bible describe the ‘pneuma’ as immortal, nor is it the same as the soul (a breathing thing), so it can (figuratively) ‘return to God’ at death,’ because all hope of future life depends on God and His promise of a resurrection.
Note in particular how the term Breath is used at Job 27:3, where Job spoke of God’s Breath or Spirit. For there he asked, ‘Does the Breath of the Divine One remain in my nose?’ As you can see from his application of this word, pneuma obviously referred to God’s Breath in this case, not to a person or to an unseen force. He was talking about that which comes from God and caused him (Job) to breathe… the Breath of Life.
It is interesting that at Genesis 6:3 God says, ‘I won’t allow My Breath to stay with these men through the the age, for they are fleshly.’ In Greek that reads, ‘Ou me katameine to pneuma mou en tois anthropois toutoiseis ton aiona, dia ai einai autous sarka,’ or, ‘Not not should stay the Breath Mine with these men the age through, their being flesh.’
While the words Breath Mine (pneuma mou) here can refer to God’s Holy Breath, it seems more likely that He is referring to the breath of life that He gave Adam. So it appears as though what God was saying here is that the breath of life (of the people of that age) would be removed prematurely. However, since God referred to it as ‘My Breath,’ there may be a link implied between God’s Holy Breath and the breath of life.
For more information, see the attached link ‘The Powers of God’s Holy Spirit (http://www.2001translation.com/Holy_Spirit.html).’
However, when Jesus died (as the words recorded at John 19:30 say), ‘he hung his head and gave up the breath’ (gr. kai klinas ten kephalen paredoken to pneuma, or, and inclined his head giving/up the breath). In this case, the obvious reference is to ‘the breath of life,’ or that force which gave him life as a human.

[arimatthewdavies]

i wonder since a caveman could not possibly comprehend all this can he enter into paradise?

[arimatthewdavies]

this is the reason rastafarians simply roll a joint and sing jah made this whole joint for you[real song]

[elihu]

" for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son so that all those who believe in Him might not perish but have everlasting life"

for God so loved the world that he gave himself so that all those believe in Him might not perish but have everlasting life

which one is scriptural?

was Isaac also Abraham?
no he was Isaac the son of Abraham his father.


the trinitarians seriously miss the point of the sacrifice.

elihu

[shikinah]

Yes the whole aspect of the trinity is very warped, especially when you think about it from a catholics perception "Holy Mary mother of God" what they have done here is put Mary as the creator she is the queen of heaven. This alone shows you this wasn't in any original bible teaching but clever manipulation of the wicked one.

Sisterly Love
Shikinah

[elihu]

Yes the whole aspect of the trinity is very warped, especially when you think about it from a catholics perception "Holy Mary mother of God" what they have done here is put Mary as the creator she is the queen of heaven. This alone shows you this wasn't in any original bible teaching but clever manipulation of the wicked one.

Sisterly Love
Shikinah


excellent point Shikinah.
just as one lie leads to another
one false teaching leads to another to prop it up

nice to hear your thoughts sister

elihu

[arimatthewdavies]

there is little to no way to explain the person of god because we as christiens only know of the father, the son and the spirit,,,the bible no were makes mention of a female god their is no personal details about who created the being that became satan and no mention as to if jehovah has daugters or sons other then jesus...all we can do is aproch jehovah and ask him to explain to us,as best as we are able to understand the god who created the worlds,does our human brains even have the room to hold even a rough understanding of such a being? heck i can barely understand a watchtower at the sunday meeting much less is god 3 people or is he 1 person who expesses himself through 3 differant personalitys what if their is no father no son no holy spirt? what if their is onley 1 true god jehovah who travels through time space and diminsion as easy as we take a breath.the bible onley teaches us things with ideas we as humans can grasp the whole father son holy spirit thing may onley a picture for the human mind.oh well see how hopelessly bejumbled we have become over 1 human eating the apaorapineaanalopa fruit?

[shikinah]

excellent point Shikinah.
just as one lie leads to another
one false teaching leads to another to prop it up

nice to hear your thoughts sister

elihu

Thank you Elihu, it just stays in my mind from childhood and attending the catholic church. Trying to work out how can Mary be Gods mother:confused:
Shows you how all the sentiment and grandeur covers over the truth, making millions spiritually blind.
I have noticed something peculiar lately, two churches one catholic and one protestant where I live, have both taken down their huge crosses which had Jesus hanging on them. These crosses use to be outside as prime position now nothing stands in their place:huh:
I wonder is this going to happen with all the churches?

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth