Does Watchtower Literature Contain Subliminal Images?

[Administration]

A new commentary has been published, covering the controversy over the use of subliminal images in the Society's literature.

Does the Watchtower Literature Contain Subliminal Images? (http://e-watchman.com/)

[Berean]

Personally, I don't think those artists deliberately put in subliminal imagery, just that they're not very good artists. If you're not very good at drawing, you tend to sort of smear on paint, creating vague shapes instead of well-defined images. This naturally leads to our brain trying to interpret those vague shapes, in other words, trying to see images that aren't there. If you then also make use of a mirror, the number of images increases from 1 (the original image) to infinite (you can put the mirror on literally any place in the image, resulting in vaguely recognisable shapes in 1 or 2 places).

Just take any image that is elaborately painted, and look for strange shapes in the image. Your brain will try to interpret it, and it will search in its database of known shapes, until it has found one that most closely resembles the part of the picture you didn't recognise as anything definite before. Usually this will be a face, since there is an infinite amount of faces available to choose from in your brain's database - anything that seemingly has eyes can qualify as a face. Try it with a wooden table, a wall, breakfast cereal, even the clouds.

So I do not think subliminal images are purposefully hidden in Watchtower literature, I think the problem lies with the observer of those pictures. Optical illusions make clever use of how our brains work, in that there are multiple ways in which our brain tries to interpret a picture, even when there is clearly only one correct interpretation, unless it's abstract art. I'd just like to say that the people who created those sites are not unlike the people in 2 Corinthians 10:10, who said 'His letters are weighty and forceful, but his presence in person is weak and his speech contemptible.', in that they do not look at the content, but bring forth all the wrong arguments - arguments that are based on such trivial matters as pictures that could, perhaps, maybe contain imagery that is supposed to be viewed with a mirror that you should put in a place that is non-indicated by the artist, revealing a picture that may or may not resemble something vaguely reminiscent of a cartoon character.

[olrono]

I was wondering if this was ever going to come up, this is one of the first signs of something a miss at the Watchtower I can remember. After learning of occult symbolism, I had gone back to many Awake articles I thought were heavily UN influenced, and sure enough I saw it there. Example, I remember a scene where a grieving mother was looking over the grave of one of her children, and there was this picture of a “rose” hanging in the air just above the whole scene for no apparent reason. The sign of a single red rose represents the rising sun. Have you ever seen a picture of some prominent public figure placing a single red rose under their chin, this is showing to others of their brotherhood that, they are in fact a member too. Also, a rising sun on the right side of the page, (the east) is very prominent in all Watchtower pictures, but in it self, not conclusive

[Jeshurun]

I thought that some were obvious, and others were contrived. But I'm not particularly shocked by any of it. It only reinforces what we already know about an evil slave in our midst.

[Shibboleth]

In the back of the songbook there are feet that don't go to any singer. The person who drew that put to many feet in. It is close to the last singer on the right. Just follow the feet up and there is nobody there.


Weird!

[James]

In the back of the songbook there are feet that don't go to any singer. The person who drew that put to many feet in. It is close to the last singer on the right. Just follow the feet up and there is nobody there.


Weird![/b]


Hi Shibboleth,

Although it does look like that, I'd have to say they belong to the last full image of a person there. Bad drawing but nothing subliminal....LOL

James

[Jinnvisible]

[Kenneth]

I've just checked the back page of the song book and the singer must be a contortionist because the feet don't match the head. It's kind of spooky as if there is a missing body. Also there is clearly a face in the hand on p159 of the revelation book. I'm not sure though how intentional it all is. Are they subliminal images or were the artists bored and thought they would amuse themselves with some light entertainment. Many of the pictures are to obscure to draw a proper conclusion. If we were to watch clouds long enough they start to make shapes of faces or countries, we could conclude there's a big conspiracy happening in the sky if we were not careful. The society have painted thousands of pictures and the law of averages would indicate that there would be times when images within images appear even though the artist is unaware they are there. I have painted pictures in the past and others have said that looks like so-and-so, yet I did not set out intentionally to paint that into the picture, it just looked like an image of something else. Satan's machinations are many and he may have well peppered the publications with images of his own urine in an attempt to defile what is holy. I think I will keep an open mind on the matter as there are some obscurities in the publications but some websites are reading too much into it.



Kenneth :dontknow:

[Berean]

Firstly you need to acknowledge two things. 1) The society does sanction the overt use of satanic imagery. An illustration of the Whore of Babylon riding the many headed beast is a satanic image. It is not used in the literature for satanic purposes, yet it is a symbolic image pertaining to the things of Satan. 2) the WTBTS does behave in a covert and divisive way pictorially. In the sense that going by the illustrations, men with beards in modern times only do bad things, Job was apparently Caucasian not Oriental, mixed race marriages don't exist in the congregations. Ect.[/b]
Yes, I definitely agree with you on those points. They certainly don't hold back when it comes to depicting things like tarot cards and ouija boards, so thinking of that, it may not be beyond some of the artists to deliberately hide other stuff in their pictures, but there are probably better ways to get such a message across, like by just putting the scary stuff in plain sight (like a skeleton on a horse, followed by a black ghostly figure).

Another explanation could also be that some artists are subconsciously influenced to draw such imagery. By what, remains the question. Perhaps by the Devil himself, perhaps just by what they see around them everyday. It's clear that the use of pictures in Watchtower literature is sometimes questionable (especially when it comes to depicting things a picture cannot do justice to), but the individuals who have studied thousands of images with a mirror do seem to have issues.

[Shibboleth]

In the Climax book I found Waldo.

[patience]

I definitley feel these pictures are here for a reason. Check out the picture on page 45 of the learn from the Great Teacher book. This Picture is also In the Keep on the Watch brochure.

The tree is so twisted there is a face or two faces in the tree and two of the figures in the crowd are looking up at them. Also theres is some shrouded figures in the garment of the little girl.

I hate having these pictures in the house! I definitley don't want to be responsible for putting them in other peoples houses through the ministry! :talkhand: :boom04:

[Kenneth]

I definitley feel these pictures are here for a reason. Check out the picture on page 45 of the learn from the Great Teacher book.[/b]

If you look at the tree to the right, it looks like something out of alien, with about eight arms coming from it, but there's defiantly an eye and face of sorts. If theses are mistakes the Watchtower needs to be more careful as to which images it's using. If however they are deliberate then the devils hand is at work and fully operational in the midst of the man of lawlessness.





Kenneth</span> </span>

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

I&#39;m not sure how much time any of you have spent following the hyperlinks provided by e-Watchman in his latest commentary or indeed on other sites. As he rightly says, many of these sites are very badly designed and there can be an inclination to give up not long after you start looking!
There is however something rather sinister in all of this I feel sure. Once you start looking at the pictures in the publications all manner of illusions can spring up of course, but take time to look at some of the images highlighted and they go well beyond coincidence. There is also a common set of themes involved as many of are no doubt aware, the letter E or S, rams, goats as well as faces, the trident symbol and if other sites are to be believed various occult symbols.
There also seems to be an evolutionary process going on, as if the complexity and evil intent gets ever bolder with each incidence over time. This is surely a reflection of Satanic influence as others have noted.
One of the site links from the commentary also looks at the masonic influences which are evident from the earliest publications and indeed the Pyrimid stone on Charles Taze Russell&#39;s grave. What are we to make of these connections? The implication is that this symbolism has in fact been present from way back, during the founding of the Society etc. On this I am keeping an open mind. Certainly Satan will have recognised from an early stage, what was happening and influenced things, albeit that essential truths were rediscovered by the well meaning and I am sure sincere early bible students just as Josiah had to rediscover Jehovah&#39;s will when the book of the law was rediscovered. I am not sure that I place too much store by attempts to undermine the foundations of the Society in that respect therefore.
I must say that I saw some of these pictures years ago and whilst a little perturbed put them down to a wayward artist or two. Any sober assessment of the images now evident cannot be so lightly dismissed. As others have commented, this is just further proof of the lawlessness at work. The images have become increasingly disturbing and demonic and there can be little doubt that with the level of concern now being expressed on numerous internet sites, any right minded member of the GB would, one would think, be insistent on the highest degree of care in the conception of all pictures simply to avoid any accusation. Yet they keep coming....?
EF

[Berean]

The best solution to this would be to either stop printing images altogether, or stop painting and make use of photographs instead, like they already do here and there. If there&#39;s something fishy about a photograph, you just know it has been doctored, while there is still a factor of uncertainty with paintings.

[Jeshurun]

One of the site links from the commentary also looks at the masonic influences which are evident from the earliest publications and indeed the Pyrimid stone on Charles Taze Russell&#39;s grave.[/b]

Those same pyramids are all over the architecture of the Bethel factory, all around the roof.

This Masonic influence has infiltrated everything, including the Society since the beginning. CT Russell&#39;s cousin founded the Skull & Bones, and the Russell family is one of the most prominent of the Illuminati.

The Watchtower has served its wonderful purpose, but soon the Kingdom must be refined, and every last trace of Babylonian influence has to go.

[Nambo]

I seem to remember the society covered and denighed these alligations, making specifc reference to the framed picture of a Ram in the Live Forever book. anybody else remember?

Would certainly indicate the society are aware of it, so you would think they would be taking particular care to ensure it doesnt happen again if, as they claim, they are so keen to keep Jehovahs congregation clean.

[juffowup]

I dabble as an artist, and I can say this stuff happens all the time. When I&#39;m drawing, many times I turn the page all over the place to get a comfortable working angle, and if you are not careful, things get skewed. Just this year, I drew a picture of spiderman for my nephew, who is a spiderman freak. Spiderman was hanging upside down by his web.

When I handed the picture to my nephew, I looked at it upside down, so that spiderman appeared rightside up. I noticed that his neck was roughly 50% longer than what would be considered normal human anatomy, his "eyes" looked very funny, like he was in mild distress instead of their normal "tough guy" look. I was embarassed, but looking at it from the proper perspective, you could not tell because our visual centers of the brain don&#39;t work properly on angles and perspectives we don&#39;t see every day.

Another instance you may be familar with is the priest that gives a marriage ceremony in The Little Mermaid. Several people were shocked and disgusted that the priest had a visible erection throughout the scene in this G-rated movie! But careful analysis shows that this is merely one of the poor guys stereotypically cartoony looking knobby knees viewed from an odd angle. See snopes (http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/minister.htm)for more info.

I notice a common theme in these supposed demonic images is that they have to be viewed at odd angles to make them work. Angles that the artists, most likely a painter who is not at liberty to turn his canvas around at will, would never have seen. This is especially the case in the so-called demon head found in Jesus palm in the Revelation book.

All this is beside the point, because I researched the area for a thesis in school, and I found that there is very little evidence suggesting that subliminal messages work. They are either too brief or obscure for our visual centers of our brain to detect and pickup, or they are noticble, in which they aren&#39;t subliminal. So, you have to ask why Satan would go to this much trouble for something that doesn&#39;t work, when he has far older and more effective tools that destroy witness lives by the thousands each year.

[Nambo]

I dabble as an artist, and I can say this stuff happens all the time. When I&#39;m drawing, many times I turn the page all over the place to get a comfortable working angle, and if you are not careful, things get skewed. Just this year, I drew a picture of spiderman for my nephew, who is a spiderman freak. Spiderman was hanging upside down by his web.

When I handed the picture to my nephew, I looked at it upside down, so that spiderman appeared rightside up. I noticed that his neck was roughly 50% longer than what would be considered normal human anatomy, his "eyes" looked very funny, like he was in mild distress instead of their normal "tough guy" look. I was embarassed, but looking at it from the proper perspective, you could not tell because our visual centers of the brain don&#39;t work properly on angles and perspectives we don&#39;t see every day.

Another instance you may be familar with is the priest that gives a marriage ceremony in The Little Mermaid. Several people were shocked and disgusted that the priest had a visible erection throughout the scene in this G-rated movie! But careful analysis shows that this is merely one of the poor guys stereotypically cartoony looking knobby knees viewed from an odd angle. See snopes (http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/minister.htm)for more info.

I notice a common theme in these supposed demonic images is that they have to be viewed at odd angles to make them work. Angles that the artists, most likely a painter who is not at liberty to turn his canvas around at will, would never have seen. This is especially the case in the so-called demon head found in Jesus palm in the Revelation book.

All this is beside the point, because I researched the area for a thesis in school, and I found that there is very little evidence suggesting that subliminal messages work. They are either too brief or obscure for our visual centers of our brain to detect and pickup, or they are noticble, in which they aren&#39;t subliminal. So, you have to ask why Satan would go to this much trouble for something that doesn&#39;t work, when he has far older and more effective tools that destroy witness lives by the thousands each year.[/b]

Maybe, but it doesnt explain the promenate pictures of Goats everywhere?

[juffowup]

Maybe, but it doesnt explain the promenate pictures of Goats everywhere?[/b]

First, there are numerous non-satanic mentions of goats and rams in the Bible itself. Second, goats and rams throughout the world are commonly seen as the most normal of domesticated animals. Outside the western world and a few tribes in africa, goats are what you think of when you think beef. It&#39;s whats for dinner! :-)

Secondly, going through 20 years worth of publications and finding a few pictures of prominent rams tells you nothing. To prove the case, you&#39;d have to take that 20 year history and in each case a group of animals is present, tally how many times a ram is present, let alone prominent. Once you know the ratio, you can decide if it is significant or not. The fact that no one that feels this is such an important case has actually done this trivial bit of empiracle research is telling to me. It would not be hard. You need 20 years worth of bound volumes and a weekend or two of work with a spreadsheet.

This would be akin to the silent lambs (warning! baby ram imagery detected!!! :-)) people if they found five or ten instances of pedophiles in the organization and making it a big issue. No, it was thousands, including documentation coming from the HQ itself, combined with thousands of testimonials, combined with a clear an persistant pattern of behavior from elders, overseers, on up to Bethel, that made me decide there was something to this case.

The same thing with the NGO affair. There is documentation, a smoking gun chain of evidence, and clear evidence of cover up.

Thirdly, keeping in mind that I have done extensive research that says subliminal messaging doesn&#39;t work, and that these are not in fact, subliminal messages (the goats are right there staring at you), again I ask what is the point? Why would a satanic cabal that intends to stay shrouded in mystery use pictures of pretty cute looking goats to further their cause?

Brother King has presented the evidence, and has allowed us to make up our own minds regarding these images. I have reviewd the evidence, and I am not convinced.

[Jinnvisible]

Someone posted some Bethel graffitti on the internet. It was stick figures agreeing and voting on spiritual things. It was a parody of the governing body voting on the origins of whether something was pagan or not. I don`t think they worked in the Art Dept. though, or if they did i doubt whether it was for thier abillity to draw.

Their have been many statments made about the spritual atmosphere at Bethel. An elder who likes to give uplifting talks once told me that the worst place that he ever gave talks was in the halls in or near Bethel. `Horrible` was the word he used as i remember. Bethelites might suffer from a great deal of undue pressure, what that might lead to is anyones guess.

[Gabriel]

Im creeped out! you guys have me scared to open up another watchtower!

[Jinnvisible]

Im creeped out! you guys have me scared to open up another watchtower![/b]

I feel the same way about the writting sometimes, let alone the pictures.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Watchtower January 1 2007 page 29

I posted this observation on the "two editions of the Watchtower" thread but I&#39;m interested as to whether anyone else can see the image?

"You might also want to place a mirror on the picture on page 29 with the mirror vertically down the picture facing from left to right. The depiction of a goat&#39;s head is clearly revealed and is being given obeisance by the hands. Another pair of hands hold the horns. This is an unmistakeable image. The eyes, horns, nostrils and mouth are perfectly positioned in the folded cloth - surely no coincidence!"



EF

[eyes&ears]

Im creeped out! you guys have me scared to open up another watchtower![/b]


I wouldn&#39;t worry too much about it LV, at some point we will be just using Jehovah&#39;s Word without all these publications anyway. Best to soak in as much of Jehovah&#39;s Word as possible to get prepared right. No subliminal, satanic messages there. We will never have to be afraid to open the Bible.

Love to ya all :icon_rolleyes: :dontknow:

E & E

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

You&#39;re quite right E&E and that will be a blessing! because as the illustration I refer to above shows, ther are dark forces at work at the present time. Have you checked it out?

EF

[eyes&ears]

Hi EF,

I sure did check it out. Even when I got this WT, I thought that I saw a resemblance of a goats head, but I also thought it was just my imagination. I then just dismissed it.

I read Watchman&#39;s very informative commentary, that gave me insight as to what is what in that area.

You are correct there are evil dark forces and I do believe we should be aware of these things.

Love to all

E & E

[Wanderer]

Hello All.

First thing I did when I read the post on the "Two Editions of the Watchtower" which mentionned the sublimal image on the 1 January 2007 (if I am not wrong) was to check the drawing out. Frankly, I saw little or nothing. I guess a drawing can "suggest" something else the artist never intended, the same as clouds come up looking like all sorts of things. I know the WT has a lot of issues, but to me personally, the sublimal thing isn&#39;t one of them. I may be wrong. I simply haven&#39;t found strong enough evidence to accept that to be so.

Brotherly love,


:ban_dance01:
Wanderer

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Now that I&#39;m a little better educated about the Black Pope, who heads up the Illuminati, I am not surprised at anything that is uncovered.

It has always been the goal of the Jesuits to infiltrate ALL religion and corrupt it with the eventual outcome of destroying it in favor of the one-world religion. Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses have also been targeted, and it seems they have been quite successful. False &#39;brothers&#39; sneak in, often rising to high positions to work their deception.

This has been going on since Charles Taze Russell was corrupted and will continue until all &#39;religion&#39; has morphed into their idea of &#39;truth.&#39;

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[olrono]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Now that I&#39;m a little better educated about the Black Pope, who heads up the Illuminati, I am not surprised at anything that is uncovered.

It has always been the goal of the Jesuits to infiltrate ALL religion and corrupt it with the eventual outcome of destroying it in favor of the one-world religion. Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses have also been targeted, and it seems they have been quite successful. False &#39;brothers&#39; sneak in, often rising to high positions to work their deception.

This has been going on since Charles Taze Russell was corrupted and will continue until all &#39;religion&#39; has morphed into their idea of &#39;truth.&#39;

Love, :Love:

Steadfast[/b]
I hope this doesn’t give you the “Kiss of Death” by coming from me, but I have to say, you said this perfectly!

[clay]

Hi Steadfast,

you said.."This has been going on since Charles Taze Russell was corrupted and will continue until all &#39;religion&#39; has morphed into their idea of &#39;truth.&#39;...."
Coming in on many of these discussions from an un-informed and newbie (in every sense of the word) status, would you please explain what the above words mean? How do you figure CTR was corrupted? in what ways? oooohhh,,groan,, where does one start to piece it all to make sense??? How I sometimes long for the days of Ignorant Bliss...
thanks, clay

[olrono]

Hi Steadfast,

you said.."This has been going on since Charles Taze Russell was corrupted and will continue until all &#39;religion&#39; has morphed into their idea of &#39;truth.&#39;...."
Coming in on many of these discussions from an un-informed and newbie (in every sense of the word) status, would you please explain what the above words mean? How do you figure CTR was corrupted? in what ways? oooohhh,,groan,, where does one start to piece it all to make sense??? How I sometimes long for the days of Ignorant Bliss...
thanks, clay[/b]

<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"> Agape, olrono

[Steadfast]

Dear Brother Clay,

Here is a link to an article that I wrote several weeks ago about CT Russell&#39;s involvement with the occult. The question has been raised about this because of all the occult freemason symbology that started to appear in his writings and books:

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/inde...p?showtopic=123 (http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123)

I hope this helps.

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[barry]

Hi all,

Together with my wife we were just looking at the links in the comment on subliminal images. My wife just discovered a subliminal on the site itself which is showing the images.

The picture is from the letter on the following page.

This link is in the comment from watchman, so hope it can stay there:
http://www.watcheroftheart.talktalk.net/watchman_031.htm

the picture is found here
http://users.skynet.be/fa017060/subliminal_result.jpg

What do you think about this? Hands that worship something?

regards,
Barry

[Kenneth]

Some of this stuff a bit like the Bible code business as too much is being read into it. Admittedly there are some unexplained anomalies in quite a few of the artist illustrations, especially the one in the revelation book with the face in the hand.

Why not take a few of the books you have in your homes (not Watchtower books) with pictures get a mirror and see how many shapes and face you can find. I think there will be quite a few. Or sit under clouds for long enough and find a face, it will appear. Out of the thousands of painting the society have produced you are going to find all kinds of shapes including strange features that in my opinion have become too misconstrued. I don&#39;t wish to be negative about the organisation when the evidence is one of mere conjecture.

Kenneth

[Kenneth]

(Ignore my comment above; I’ve now come to my senses.)



I&#39;ve just spotted a face on the right knee of the giant on page 159 of the Revelation book. If you turn the book upside down there&#39;s clearly is a face in it or am I just seeing things. Theses images are really there I&#39;m sure.

[DoubtingThomas]

I see a face on his left knee, but not on his right knee.

[James]

(Ignore my comment above; I&#39;ve now come to my senses.)



I&#39;ve just spotted a face on the right knee of the giant on page 159 of the Revelation book. If you turn the book upside down there&#39;s clearly is a face in it or am I just seeing things. Theses images are really there I&#39;m sure.[/b]


Hi Kenneth,

You&#39;re just seeing things, but so am I. Also if you turn back a page and look at the picture on page 156 all the way to the right under the black smoke and turn the page sideways it looks like a face of a ghost or demon. Or should I put my glasses on?.....



James

[Nambo]

I think the fact that a Brother innocently raises his concerns about this to Bethel, and gets disfellowshipped for his troubles,

and yet the images still keep appearing,

says a lot more about the WS than the images themselves.

[Kenneth]

I see a face on his left knee, but not on his right knee.[/b]


Yes Thomas you are correct, the face is in the left knee but its without doubt there. :icon_rolleyes:

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

(Ignore my comment above; I&#39;ve now come to my senses.)



I&#39;ve just spotted a face on the right knee of the giant on page 159 of the Revelation book. If you turn the book upside down there&#39;s clearly is a face in it or am I just seeing things. Theses images are really there I&#39;m sure.[/b]


Hi Kenneth,

as you may know I am away on holiday at present, but I was very glad to see your acknowledgement of these images. They are certainly there although I dont think I&#39;ve seen the one you mention, I must check it out when I get home.



EF

[mickeyman]

Hi folks. I am your brother from The Central Europe and that has been 6 months, since I had found The truth about truth. The First months were very heavy for me and my wife. Our faith in Jehovah was too weak, because we knew only the bad things about our Organization. And then I found e-watchman&#39;s website and read some of Robert&#39;s essays. There is good logic used in them and many biblical responses so that I realized the real truth had to exist and had to be only in The Bible not in human organizations. Our Organization persuades us to put our entire faith only in man&#39;s doctrines and rules and not clear biblical truth. I feel happy for the first time since I have been baptized due to knowing some God&#39;s deep things. Thank you all, first of all Robert.

And now why I chose this topic? I found really perspicuous subliminal image, I have never seen on net. This image is placed in boy&#39;s blue shorts on page 307 of The Book Pay attention to Daniel&#39;s prophecy. The same image is used in the newest Watchtower -15 january 2008, but only in black and white. There are 2 persons in this image, one in the front and one behind the first one on the right side. I think The second person has big phallus [comment edited for inapropriate language]. What do you think about this taken from my camera? I suppose this is not a speculation, isn&#39;t it?

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/5/11/26/f_danielpage3m_a6d5a3c.jpg

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Mickeyman (interesting name), and welcome

there are numerous examples of subliminal images in WTS publications - far too many to be imagination whatever some might say. I&#39;d like to look at the original image to make my mind up on this one, but nothing would surprise me.

The more challenging question is why? There appears to be an element within the GB (at the very least) that takes a delight in corrupting what should be wholesome.

You will find that some here largely dismiss these images as irrelevant or subjective at best. Personally I see in them unsavoury undercurrents of Satanic corruption.

EF

[mickeyman]

My oppinion is, that theese images are the payment to Satan for good life or power over God&#39;s people. We can be sure that the man of lawlessnes is among us and in the future
he will be very dangerous. I suppose He will take advantage of today&#39;s organizational mind control.

[Jeshurun]

My oppinion is, that theese images are the payment to Satan for good life or power over God&#39;s people. We can be sure that the man of lawlessnes is among us and in the future
he will be very dangerous. I suppose He will take advantage of today&#39;s organizational mind control.[/b]

Welcome, mickeyman.

Have you seen this one?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040222b/article_01.htm

Jesh

[mickeyman]

I&#39;m sorry,I don&#39;t understand you Jesh. That&#39;s long artical. What do you think about that?

[mickeyman]

For the second I&#39;m sorry, I&#39;m so blind! My wife have noticed that promtly. :38786-6:

[Jeshurun]

For the second I&#39;m sorry, I&#39;m so blind! My wife have noticed that promtly. :38786-6:[/b]

Yeah, is it any wonder why the organization has pedophiles running rampant?

I wonder how the parents of that kid in the picture feel about it (let alone Jehovah).

Jesh

[mickeyman]

To tell the truth, I&#39;m already not surprised at anything.

I know that subliminal images are not the best theme to discuss, but some are so evident to be able to help many to open their eyes and see there is something
wrong in leadership. The one above is real evidence. I think there are few people in my country knowing theese problems.

And now for all about my username - My name is Mike and there is no another hidden sence in Mickey ! I&#39;ve just looked at dictionary and laughed that. :D

Mickey

[Nash]

Hmmm. I never quite looked at the illustration that way before, Jeshurun. Interesting.

Nash

[Nash]

Hi Mickeyman! Welcome to the forum.

Nash

[Gabriel]

There are more images in the boys pants than just the ones preveously mentioned. If you look at the right leg (The one closest to Christ) you will notice that there is a demonic head...Looks more like it has goat like features,eys noes head and mouth! its not that hard to see. In fact that was one of the firs things I saw before I had read any of the post! What is it with the whole goat thing in the art department at bethel? This kids pants looks like its full of demonic activity.....Gives me the creeps.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Gabriel, you are so right about the goat images. Take a look at the left hand of the writer on page 17 of the December 15 2007 watchtower - the goat&#39;s head on his hand is unmistakeable and no one has veins on their hand like those!

Then of course there are the many instances of goats(or similar) featuring in the magazines for no apparent purpose, the latest instance is on page 26 of Jan 8 2008 awake.

Keep your eyes open and you find the goat everywhere.

EF

[watchman]

Eli&#39;s Foe, I don&#39;t have access to the Watchtower mags any more, is there anyway you or anyone else could scan a copy of that Dec 15th 2007 WT and post it here? Thanks

Oh, and welcome to the forum Mike

Watchman

[James]

Keep your eyes open and you find the goat everywhere.

EF[/b]


Hi EF,

You&#39;re right, they could be found everywhere.....






























http://thebeautybrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/goat.jpg

Sorry, I don&#39;t know what came over me.


James

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

I&#39;ve emailed the pic to you Watchman as I cant post it on this site for some reason. Maybe you can post it for others to decide.

EF

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

You can view it here

http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=posteron3.jpg

EF

[watchman]

Thanks Eli, unfortunately this forum software doesn&#39;t allow you to upload images directly from your PC. Thanks for posting it on the web.

As regards the goatheaded subliminal on his left hand, yeah, once you get a sense of how the artist camouflages the subliminal within the image they are pretty easy to pick out. I suppose the demons get some sort of cheap thrill out of leaving the mark in the literature that way. In a way it establishes their ownership of the literature.

By the way, does anyone remember the daytime game show back in the 50&#39;s called Camouflage? I must have been like five or six. I think it probably only ran a season, but the game contestants had to discern an image concealed within another image. No doubt it trained a few artists in the art of subliminals, which, of course, have been used in advertisement for a long time.

Watchman

[SlaveForJah]

Maybe I&#39;m crazy, but I certainly do not see any of the things posted about in this thread since it&#39;s revival by mickeyman.

I think I&#39;m missing the importance here as well. Even if there are goats in the publications, since when are goats anything special anyway? There are equally as many pictures of eagles, are we worshipping the USA with those? How about the pictures of bulls; are we worshipping Wall Street in a good year with those ones? Or dogs? Are we projecting ourselves being left out of the Holy City, as depicted in Revelation? What about pictures of porcines? Does that mean we want to return to our vomit?

I just see way too many problems with associating every "cloud picture" with something sinister. Does that mean it&#39;s not going on? No. But all the paper folding and "hold 8 different mirrors up at every 45th degree, and something evil appears" just does not meet my criteria for belief. Next thing you know, I&#39;d be believing that an origami frog is a REAL frog...and it actually "jumps", whereas these things are straining to see into the shadows things that just aren&#39;t there.


Wondering

SlaveForJah

[watchman]

I think I&#39;m missing the importance here as well. Even if there are goats in the publications, since when are goats anything special anyway? There are equally as many pictures of eagles, are we worshipping the USA with those? How about the pictures of bulls; are we worshipping Wall Street in a good year with those ones? Or dogs? Are we projecting ourselves being left out of the Holy City, as depicted in Revelation? What about pictures of porcines? Does that mean we want to return to our vomit?[/b]

As you no doubt are aware, a goat-headed man is a symbol the Devil has taken to himself. Even the Scriptures make mention of "goat-shaped demons," whatever they were. But it is not that anyone who reads a Watchtower with Satanic subliminals is worshipping the Devil; it is, as I say, the Devil&#39;s way of putting his mark on the literature. It is an animalistic thing, like a dog or cat urinating on a tree to mark its territory. And the Devil is most interested in doing that because the literature has been devoted to Jehovah God, and Satan covets what belongs to God.

Watchman

[watchman]

On a personal note, about 30 years ago I started a Bible study with a Mormon couple. And they insisted that I take some of their Latter Day Saint literature, which I did -- ill-advisedly.

I should back track a bit -- before that my wife and I had been reading a book called Subliminal Seduction (http://www.amazon.com/Subliminal-Seduction-Wilson-Bryan-Key/dp/0451061489)and so we were attuned to subliminal imagery. So, when I brought the Mormon literature home we thumbed through it and noticed a creepy subliminal. What it was was a picture of Joseph Smith in the forest receiving the golden plates from the angel, Moroni; but camouflaged in the foilage of the leaves of the forest were all these ghoulish-looking demon faces. It was fairly obvious to both of us, but I don&#39;t know if we would have readily recognized it if we had not been reading about subliminal imagery.

At any rate, we tossed the magazine down and went to bed. Long about dawn I woke up to what seemed like an earthquake. The bed was literally being jolted off the floor, as if some invisible person were violently jumping up and down on the bed. And my wife though still sleeping was struggling as if someone were choking her. I sort of slapped her and woke her up and immediately the bed stopped shaking. I quickly jumped out of bed and grapped the Mormon magazine and tossed it out our second story apartment window.

Watchman

[stayawake]

Bro watchman
It sure makes perfect sense, Satan has alredy coveted the territory
We are aware that the magizines supposingly were dedicated to proclaim Gods Word to the nations,
Knowing this the GB
still opened the pages to the Awake and invited the scarlet colored beast in for ten years.
Do you think once he got his foot in he would stay out !
Think again.

[Jinnvisible]

..............Welcome, mickeyman.

Have you seen this one?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040222b/article_01.htm

Jesh[/b]

Is the suggested problem with this picture overt, or by sublimation ?

Any help is welcome. :huh.sml:

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Jinn

I think its more to do with what the article is discussing and what may be in the lads hand using the computer!

I may be wrong, please correct me if I am

EF&#39;s Better half :rolleyes:

[Jeshurun]

Someone had posted the original untouched photo on another forum, and the "object" wasn&#39;t there. He has since deleted it so I cannot access it.

Jesh

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

<div class='quotemain'>I think I&#39;m missing the importance here as well. Even if there are goats in the publications, since when are goats anything special anyway? There are equally as many pictures of eagles, are we worshipping the USA with those? How about the pictures of bulls; are we worshipping Wall Street in a good year with those ones? Or dogs? Are we projecting ourselves being left out of the Holy City, as depicted in Revelation? What about pictures of porcines? Does that mean we want to return to our vomit?[/b]

As you no doubt are aware, a goat-headed man is a symbol the Devil has taken to himself. Even the Scriptures make mention of "goat-shaped demons," whatever they were. But it is not that anyone who reads a Watchtower with Satanic subliminals is worshipping the Devil; it is, as I say, the Devil&#39;s way of putting his mark on the literature. It is an animalistic thing, like a dog or cat urinating on a tree to mark its territory. And the Devil is most interested in doing that because the literature has been devoted to Jehovah God, and Satan covets what belongs to God.

Watchman



[/b][/quote]
According to Wikipedia the symbol of the goat in the downward-pointed pentagram was adopted as the official symbol—called the Sigil of Baphomet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_of_Baphomet)—of the Church of Satan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan), and continues to be used amongst Satanists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanist).

It is also worthy of note that the tarot also features the goat image in connection with Satan.

Of course I smiled when I saw James&#39; friendly goat pic, but I think there is a serious side to this and whilst I respect what you say SlaveforJah, I think you need to look at all of this more closely if you want to be aware of what is happening at the NY Bethel. Of course once again it can be argued that there are more tangible and more important issues to consider, but just like the composite sign of the last days, the evidence stacks up from all sources.

EF

[Berean]

If Satan can pretend to be an angel of light, wouldn&#39;t he be a massive idiot if he stamped his signature onto everything for the world to see it&#39;s his? Of course, we all know he is a massive idiot, but I still don&#39;t quite see all those subliminal images, nor do I see what their merit would be to Satan. It&#39;s also sad to see that some animals, like the goat, which is created by God after all, become so associated with evil that we can hardly see them as what they are, creatures of God. Of course Jehovah himself uses animals as symbols in the Bible both for good and bad things, but they are just that - symbols, and we shouldn&#39;t focus too much on this Satanist thinking, who really adopted the goat as their symbol, apparently. Goats are still cute and lovely animals to me, just as the Devil is still the enemy to me. I don&#39;t need to have the two intermixed and pour it out into an interpretation of pictures.

[watchman]

If Satan can pretend to be an angel of light, wouldn&#39;t he be a massive idiot if he stamped his signature onto everything for the world to see it&#39;s his? Of course, we all know he is a massive idiot, but I still don&#39;t quite see all those subliminal images, nor do I see what their merit would be to Satan.[/b]

The very nature of subliminals is that they are not obvious. They are very subtle and those who are naturally skeptical can find reason to doubt that they even exist. The fact is the millions of people, both JW&#39;s and otherwise, who read the Watchtower&#39;s literature are completely oblivious to the existence of satanic subliminals in the literature. So, it is not as if the world can see it, as you say.

But it seems to me that, as the Scriptures indicate, the Devil is intent on taunting Jehovah and corrupting that which is holy to God. Just consider: The Hebrew scriptures shed some light on the intentions of the demons, in that they reveal how the Jews were induced to place grotesque and lewd images right within the sacred temple of Jehovah. Why did they do it? As God said, for the purpose of offending him. So, that&#39;s the "merit." The Devil wants to offend God by inducing his people to knowingly or unknowingly embrace unclean and satanic things.

So, look at the modern reality: On the one hand the Watchtower claims to be the very mouthpiece of Jehovah and the virtual earthly headquarters of the kingdom of God. And I for one certainly believe that the Watchtower has served as such to a certain point; and yet in graphics depicting Christ and other biblical characters there are lewd and horrific images of demons and Satan implanted in that which is dedicated to Jehovah. That is pure evil. There is no other word for it. We can shut our eyes to it and convince ourselves that such things do not exist, but that doesn&#39;t change reality. It is another reason why Jehovah is determined to destroy the organization.

Watchman

[stayawake]

Sorry but back to bro watcmans post #60
Seem I always read my reading material backwords, thats why I&#39;m late with this post

Well anyway, you can believe what he posted as that is one of the signs of denomic presence.
Bed shaking
Spickots turning on the water
Pictures falling off the wall
Doors opening etc.

My grandparents came from a very supersticious country.So I had to break free from all this when I found Jehovah.
I think once you been there one must really be careful as satan is always waiting for a opening.
So I know not to play with fire.

When I was a little girl my mom always had strange exsperiences
Of course I was taught being catholic that souls of our loved ones could not rest. It is amazing at how much spiritism is in the Cathloic beliefs.

Of courses Masses for the dead loved ones were paid for,then you had prayers , lite candles, novenas, house blessings always were done so they dead loved ones could supposeingly rest in peace.

Never the less this is to be taken seriously,
any object I found that I brought into the house that may have belonged to some one who had these problems ended up being my problems. So house cleaning would take place as to whom and where I got this or that from.
It was not until I found Jehovah that I was set free from this mind set. The real Truth really does set one free.

Sad to say I was visiting another board ( just lurking )where some were flirting with mysticism, Gave me a very sensitve feeling like when I was a little girl
so I fled..

One cannot imagine how wild they will be when ousted.

[DoubtingThomas]

I am having a very difficult time in seeing nearly all of these so-called subliminal images in the WT literature which have been described in this thread (no matter how close or how far I hold the image, or what direction I turn the book or magazine). If I hold one hand over my right eye, squint with my left eye (after having a strong martini) and use my imagination, then sometimes I think I can see something. Is that how the rest of you are seeing these things? Do you drink something or smoke something first? Just curious.

Anyway ... my 3 question&#39;s are this: If Satan is behind this (as watchman has described in the previous post) then (1)Who is he using to do the work? This has been supposedly going on for years. No doubt, many of the artist working in the art department would be involved and in on this conspiracy. (2)Is no one bringing this to the attention of the brothers at Bethel? And if so, (3)Could it be that nothing is being done to stop it because the "powers that be" in Bethel are as blind as me as far as seeing these images?

DT

[Gabriel]

I am having a very difficult time in seeing nearly all of these so-called subliminal images in the WT literature which have been described in this thread (no matter how close or how far I hold the image, or what direction I turn the book or magazine). If I hold one hand over my right eye, squint with my left eye (after having a strong martini) and use my imagination, then sometimes I think I can see something. Is that how the rest of you are seeing these things? Do you drink something or smoke something first? Just curious.

Anyway ... my 3 question&#39;s are this: If Satan is behind this (as watchman has described in the previous post) then (1)Who is he using to do the work? This has been supposedly going on for years. No doubt, many of the artist working in the art department would be involved and in on this conspiracy. (2)Is no one bringing this to the attention of the brothers at Bethel? And if so, (3)Could it be that nothing is being done to stop it because the "powers that be" in Bethel are as blind as me as far as seeing these images?

DT[/b]

Lol. D.T you crack me up! however you do bring up several good points in your post that I would also like to hear the viewpoints of others regarding "Whos doing the work?" and your right this must have been going on for years...which would mean that there is more than one artist involved, and if thats indeed the case has anyone shown these images to Bethel??? WHAT HAVE THEY SAID ABOUT IT??? See, Im totally of the belief that something is amiss...something evil. These images...many of them are just to noticable to go by unnoticed!

[stayawake]

DT[/b]
I would also like to hear the viewpoints of others regarding "Whos doing the work?" and your right this must have been going on for years...which would mean that there is more than one artist involved, and if thats indeed the case has anyone shown these images to Bethel??? WHAT HAVE THEY SAID ABOUT IT??? See, Im totally of the belief that something is amiss...something evil. These images...many of them are just to noticable to go by unnoticed!
[/quote

Gab
These are the very same thoughts that crossed my mind
Is it just a slight move of the brush ( by the demon himself ) ?
Does it just happen, unbeknowns to the artist ?
Is it really there ?
or is it just mind games ?
Theres a old saying
Never underestimate the power of the devil .

[Gabriel]

Gab
These are the very same thoughts that crossed my mind
Is it just a slight move of the brush ( by the demon himself ) ?
Does it just happen, unbeknowns to the artist ?
Is it really there ?
or is it just mind games ?
Theres a old saying
Never underestimate the power of the devil .[/b]


"Stay", Im a serious art student...or should I say a student of art...either way, Im trained to take note of colors, hues,shading,and lighting. Im trained to do this by studying many of the "Old Masters" Like Michael Angelo, Rubens, Leonardo and such. In all of the thousands of images that I&#39;ve seen from these guys and their "Master Works", Not once has there never been an "image inside of an image" that was subliminal and if so....It was already documented in studies and such. These Images within the articles of the Watchtower are very blatent and overt...and you dont need a magnifying glass to find them. Its as though whoever is doing it is delibrately provoking the viewer to TRY and DO SOMETHING about it

[Sketch]

<div align="center">Maybe Stayawake is looking at too much MC Ecsher?? some of those wood cuts and lithos hurt my brain...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/250px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg http://www.comixconnection.com/uploaded_images/relativity-712873.jpg
</div>

[Jinnvisible]

Hi Jinn

I think its more to do with ........[/b]

Hi & thank you better half.

[shikinah]

I saw a picture i think it was in the live for ever book. There was a section which was speaking about how sacred marriage is and not to commit adultry. The picture depicted a black lady sitting on an arm chair with a statue of a goats head on the table, next to her was supposedly her husband who&#39;s wedding ring was on his right hand. Some of these artists need investigating, as these things can stumble people.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Gilligan]

I saw a picture i think it was in the live for ever book. There was a section which was speaking about how sacred marriage is and not to commit adultry. The picture depicted a black lady sitting on an arm chair with a statue of a goats head on the table, next to her was supposedly her husband who&#39;s wedding ring was on his right hand. Some of these artists need investigating, as these things can stumble people.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]

,,,I think we need a TIME-OUT here, enough of the tabloid gossip, enough of the trivial 3-D sights, and, get a grip, and, reveal if you can, PERTINENT info instead of second-guessing lame pictures,,,

[diamondiiz]

Just wondering about some of these images. Who&#39;s got the time to look for anything that might resemble something?? Using a magnifying glasses and mirrors???? Do people make that a hobby or what? Do people search out anything that might look like something in any other publication as much as they do with WTS literature? I know that some subliminal images may stick out like the head in the Rev book but most others you almost have to use smoke and mirrors to come up with something that resembles a subliminal image.

[Gilligan]

Just wondering about some of these images. Who&#39;s got the time to look for anything that might resemble something?? Using a magnifying glasses and mirrors???? Do people make that a hobby or what? Do people search out anything that might look like something in any other publication as much as they do with WTS literature? I know that some subliminal images may stick out like the head in the Rev book but most others you almost have to use smoke and mirrors to come up with something that resembles a subliminal image.[/b]


Right on D-Iiz,
You gotta think that peeps have to spend more quality time other than this junk,,,

[FutureMan]

<div class='quotemain'>Just wondering about some of these images. Who&#39;s got the time to look for anything that might resemble something?? Using a magnifying glasses and mirrors???? Do people make that a hobby or what? Do people search out anything that might look like something in any other publication as much as they do with WTS literature? I know that some subliminal images may stick out like the head in the Rev book but most others you almost have to use smoke and mirrors to come up with something that resembles a subliminal image.[/b]


Right on D-Iiz,
You gotta think that peeps have to spend more quality time other than this junk,,,
[/b][/quote]

You don&#39;t need sublimal messages in pictures.
Pictures incorporated in the printed page send very powerful messages to the readers.
If you look at all the WTBTS pictures closely in their publications you will get the picture. No pun intended.

From FutureMan :icon_eek:

[SlaveForJah]

<div class='quotemain'>Just wondering about some of these images. Who&#39;s got the time to look for anything that might resemble something?? Using a magnifying glasses and mirrors???? Do people make that a hobby or what? Do people search out anything that might look like something in any other publication as much as they do with WTS literature? I know that some subliminal images may stick out like the head in the Rev book but most others you almost have to use smoke and mirrors to come up with something that resembles a subliminal image.[/b]


Right on D-Iiz,
You gotta think that peeps have to spend more quality time other than this junk,,,
[/b][/quote]

I gotta agree with you two, Diamondiiz and Gilligan. I mean, has anyone ever seen a demon? I sure don&#39;t know what one looks like. It cracks me up that we assign them human faces. If you see a "face" in a painting, suddenly it&#39;s not a human "face"? Suddenly it&#39;s a deliberately placed "demon face"?

It&#39;s kinda like the whole alien abduction craze of the last 50 years. What in the world would make us assume that any aliens that came to earth would be five-pointed creatures like humans? What use would an alien species have for 2 hands, 2 feet and a head oriented like human extremities? Why wouldn&#39;t they look like an earthworm? Or how about a lobster? Maybe a fish? Maybe a spider? I think it&#39;s highly presumptuous and just goes to confirm the human desire to put his mark on everything.

I think the same thing applies to the supposed conspiracy to make the Watchtower publications into a clearinghouse for occult images. I mean, what good is an image if no one can see it?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[shikinah]

I have literally seen demons and had to literally fight one for 3 years, so unless you have witnessed these things how can you speak of them? Whats funny is the witnesses profess to understand the truth about these fallen angels, but when someone is suffering demonic attack, their the first to laugh and deny its true. Since i have been through my ordeal, Jehovah aloud me to comfort and help others who had been through the same things, as you are shunned in the truth if you speak of such things. Its a fact Jesuits infultrate religions, who can say if an artist is really who he says he is.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[SlaveForJah]

Hello Shikinah,

I&#39;m not denying your personal experiences or the help you say Jehovah provided you with. What I am disputing is the so-called conspiracy of the Watchtower to put subliminal images in the publications.

Now, you may have seen a demon, but I never have. Even if there was a picture of one in the magazines, how on earth would I know what it looked like? And how would the artists at the Watchtower know what they look like in order to paint them?

I&#39;m not stupid enough to believe that there is nothing amiss with the Watchtower, but they have enough to answer for with Jehovah without trumping up charges that are unsubstantiated. The UN affair and the oppression of those who don&#39;t agree 100% with Watchtower doctrine are big enough reasons to draw Jehovah&#39;s discipline. But for what possible reason would the Watchtower put in "images" that by the very definition of being titled "subliminal" would be unable to be seen?

The problem with these conspiracy theories is that by their very identification as conspiracy theory they are unable to be proved by anything close to a preponderance of the evidence. Thus, the only thing needed to convict or condemn someone is an accusation.

I could just as easily accuse you of anything I want, and in order to "make it true" all I would need to do is be consistent in my accusation of you, perhaps adding that "of course you won&#39;t find any evidence for her guilt, because she&#39;s part of a conspiracy."

The same goes with the "subliminal images" reasoning. Why is it never something that can actually be seen? It&#39;s always dependent upon mirror images and angles, multiple folding and special lighting. I mean, who ever in their normal day goes around with a mirror and tries it out on 75 different angles over every picture in every Watchtower that they read?

When Manasseh practiced vile things in the sight of Jehovah, he did these things in plain sight. He put up sacred poles in the Temple, and set up idol worship all over the Kingdom. There was no "subliminal" idol worship. It was all out in the open. I don&#39;t see why the Watchtower would be any different. What good would it do to the Watchtower to set up &#39;idols&#39; in the &#39;temple&#39; of the publications if no one can see them to worship, or even recognize them if they did see them?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[binsubimages]

Hi, everyone! I am new here so I hope everyone is O.K. This subject on subliminial images, I am afraid to say the least, is TRUE! Apparently, since C.T.Russell, the ones responsable for producing the picture have been hiding subliminail images in the pictures. This is important to all Jehovahs Witnesses due to the fact that the preaching work that is done with the publications is now concidered illegal in all contries. I have set up a website at http://wtgoathead.webeden.co.uk to show you the few of the many thousands of subliminial images in the publications. The pictures shown ARE from the publications, and many of them have been hiddden so well that many have been halved so as to hide them as best as possable. One good example is by looking at the frount cover of the "What Does God Require of Us" brochure. Ask those in your congregation- even the Elders what is between the Koreon man and the lady from the West Indies, and see what answers you can come up with. Also notice on the frount cover on the right of the koreons mans red hairpiece, and if you look closer at it, it is REALLY a red aligater! Check out my website, as it is important that if ANY JW wants to carry on with the preaching work with these publications, they are really carring out the works of the devil- even though they have been convinced that they are doing the work for "Jehovah". Your lives are at stake, now, and I am trying to save your lives! Check out the images from your own copies of the publcations, or use the congregation liburary. I chose the website name "wtgoathead" as I found a Goathead in the WT Sept 15 2005 issue at the bottom of page 25. (place bottom of page against a mirror)

[Jinnvisible]

Hi, everyone! I am new here so I hope everyone is O.K. This subject on subliminial images, ....................................[/b]

Thanks.

[SlaveForJah]

<div class='quotemain'>Also notice on the frount cover on the right of the koreons mans red hairpiece, and if you look closer at it, it is REALLY a red aligater! Check out my website,[/b]

Thanks.
[/b][/quote]

Red alligators? Terminator 2 references? Really? I&#39;d say comedy is a poor choice of words, Jinn. More like just plain old sad.


The pictures shown ARE from the publications, and many of them have been hiddden so well that many have been halved so as to hide them as best as possable.[/b]
Well, now, that&#39;s a problem isn&#39;t it? You ever try to drink out of a HALF of a cup? Won&#39;t work very well. Or, like the examples of these "images", it JUST DON&#39;T HOLD WATER!


After a five year reserch in the publications, themselves, I have concluded that, unaware by millions of Jehovahs Witnesses as well as the general public, that there ARE subliminial images that are hiding in the many publications created since the late 1800s since C.T.Russell and his successers Rutherford and the Governing Body![/b]
Well, now there&#39;s another problem. If there are "millions" of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses in the world, and at the same time there are "millions" of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses that are "unaware" of these images, wouldn&#39;t you say they (whoever the mysterious "they" are) are missing their...ahem...target market?

It&#39;s all just plain silly to me. Concentrate on your spirituality, your walk with Christ, your submission to Jehovah God, your listening to the teaching of the Spirit. Silly little &#39;images in clouds&#39; will be the least of your worries. Those who Jehovah is calling are overcomers, not babes tossed about by every wind of teaching.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[truthseeker]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Also notice on the frount cover on the right of the koreons mans red hairpiece, and if you look closer at it, it is REALLY a red aligater! Check out my website,[/b]

Thanks.
[/b][/quote]

Red alligators? Terminator 2 references? Really? I&#39;d say comedy is a poor choice of words, Jinn. More like just plain old sad.


The pictures shown ARE from the publications, and many of them have been hiddden so well that many have been halved so as to hide them as best as possable.[/b]
Well, now, that&#39;s a problem isn&#39;t it? You ever try to drink out of a HALF of a cup? Won&#39;t work very well. Or, like the examples of these "images", it JUST DON&#39;T HOLD WATER!


After a five year reserch in the publications, themselves, I have concluded that, unaware by millions of Jehovahs Witnesses as well as the general public, that there ARE subliminial images that are hiding in the many publications created since the late 1800s since C.T.Russell and his successers Rutherford and the Governing Body![/b]
Well, now there&#39;s another problem. If there are "millions" of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses in the world, and at the same time there are "millions" of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses that are "unaware" of these images, wouldn&#39;t you say they (whoever the mysterious "they" are) are missing their...ahem...target market?

It&#39;s all just plain silly to me. Concentrate on your spirituality, your walk with Christ, your submission to Jehovah God, your listening to the teaching of the Spirit. Silly little &#39;images in clouds&#39; will be the least of your worries. Those who Jehovah is calling are overcomers, not babes tossed about by every wind of teaching.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[/b][/quote]


So its true things are hidden from the wise and Intelectual ones!
Of coarse I see things! Hence those words dont apply to me! :Smilie Clown:
Truthseeker

[shikinah]

[quote]
Hello Shikinah,

I&#39;m not denying your personal experiences or the help you say Jehovah provided you with. What I am disputing is the so-called conspiracy of the Watchtower to put subliminal images in the publications.

Now, you may have seen a demon, but I never have. Even if there was a picture of one in the magazines, how on earth would I know what it looked like? And how would the artists at the Watchtower know what they look like in order to paint them?

I&#39;m not stupid enough to believe that there is nothing amiss with the Watchtower, but they have enough to answer for with Jehovah without trumping up charges that are unsubstantiated. The UN affair and the oppression of those who don&#39;t agree 100% with Watchtower doctrine are big enough reasons to draw Jehovah&#39;s discipline. But for what possible reason would the Watchtower put in "images" that by the very definition of being titled "subliminal" would be unable to be seen?

The problem with these conspiracy theories is that by their very identification as conspiracy theory they are unable to be proved by anything close to a preponderance of the evidence. Thus, the only thing needed to convict or condemn someone is an accusation.

I could just as easily accuse you of anything I want, and in order to "make it true" all I would need to do is be consistent in my accusation of you, perhaps adding that "of course you won&#39;t find any evidence for her guilt, because she&#39;s part of a conspiracy."

The same goes with the "subliminal images" reasoning. Why is it never something that can actually be seen? It&#39;s always dependent upon mirror images and angles, multiple folding and special lighting. I mean, who ever in their normal day goes around with a mirror and tries it out on 75 different angles over every picture in every Watchtower that they read?

When Manasseh practiced vile things in the sight of Jehovah, he did these things in plain sight. He put up sacred poles in the Temple, and set up idol worship all over the Kingdom. There was no "subliminal" idol worship. It was all out in the open. I don&#39;t see why the Watchtower would be any different. What good would it do to the Watchtower to set up &#39;idols&#39; in the &#39;temple&#39; of the publications if no one can see them to worship, or even recognize them if they did see them?


Agape

SlaveForJah
[/quote

Thank you brother,
i understand your reasoning, of course demons arnt physical, they allow you to see them how they wish to be portrayed. These artists are having a laugh at our expense, subliminals are exactly that, your not suppose to see it, its an insult to jehovah or blasphemy. Then when they are spotted in mags, it causes this sort of thing, so yes it does work.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[diamondiiz]

Aren&#39;t subliminals, things your brain has to catch and understand? If you have to fold a picture twice and cut it or use a mirror or flip it and past it and on and on and on.......
That&#39;s not a subliminal image that&#39;s just looking for something that&#39;s not there!

If you speak english and without any knowledge you listen to Chinese song singing with a backward masking to worship Satan..... do you think your brain will catch that??????
Is that subliminal to non Chinese speaking individual?

Similarly with most of these photos, people go to great efforts and put ridiculous amount of time to create something out of nothing using WTS publication. Images they even come up with may only appear to be what they claim to only themselves as most don&#39;t look like nothing to me.

Subliminal could be something hidden in a picture but if you looked for it without smoke and mirrors you would definitly see it, but that&#39;s not the case with these images.

[Nambo]

Aren&#39;t subliminals, things your brain has to catch and understand? If you have to fold a picture twice and cut it or use a mirror or flip it and past it and on and on and on.......
That&#39;s not a subliminal image that&#39;s just looking for something that&#39;s not there!

If you speak english and without any knowledge you listen to Chinese song singing with a backward masking to worship Satan..... do you think your brain will catch that??????
Is that subliminal to non Chinese speaking individual?

Similarly with most of these photos, people go to great efforts and put ridiculous amount of time to create something out of nothing using WTS publication. Images they even come up with may only appear to be what they claim to only themselves as most don&#39;t look like nothing to me.

Subliminal could be something hidden in a picture but if you looked for it without smoke and mirrors you would definitly see it, but that&#39;s not the case with these images.[/b]

Back in the day, a frequent source of amusement at the Tuesday night book study, was the pointing out to each other these monster images wqe could see in the publications.
Of course we didnt for a minute think it delibarate or Satanic, rather just poor atristry, but it does somewhat spoil the argument here of whats the point of images nobody can see because you can be sure young people can see them.

[FGM]

You can find by searching "subliminal images" on the Internet a plethora of such woks of art especially in advertising. Even if it is true that these images have been cleverly (or coincidentally ) put in the WT publications, to what end? Do they in some way influence those "seeing" the pictures to do something they would not have done without seeing them? The majority relate to demonic faces. What are these images supposed to do? We all know that Satan and demons exist and that they are devious. Isn&#39;t it just proving that point. I don&#39;t know anyone who has been influenced by these images or in what way. Do you?

[shikinah]

I once was shown a picture cant remember which mag, but it clearly had the sharp teeth of the beast shaped into the word Jah, why? these arnt accidental photo shots but deliberate effort on the artists behalf. I do believe that putting mirrors and andturning pics upside down lol, is a desperate attempt to find something.

Sisterly Love

Eliazabeth

[Jinnvisible]

There are often people who see Jesus in a potato and things like that in the news. Obviously Jesus didn`t put a picture of himself in a potato. They should say its Rasputin in a potato, he might do it, he kept on popping up everywhere.

[shikinah]

And on the shroud of turin :)

[Jinnvisible]

Exactly.

The first son of God. The first man to conqueor death. His four biographies are the most populous publication in the world. The greatest man who ever lived.

Oh, the one thing he doesn`t have ? I think i want my face in a root vegetable, my face in a rag.

Thats the popular press and the religious institutions at there very best.

[binsubimages]

It&#39;s all just plain silly to me. Concentrate on your spirituality, your walk with Christ, your submission to Jehovah God, your listening to the teaching of the Spirit. Silly little &#39;images in clouds&#39; will be the least of your worries. Those who Jehovah is calling are overcomers, not babes tossed about by every wind of teaching.


Agape

SlaveForJah[/b]
Apparently. i know that many would like to ignore the fact that there are subliminial images in the publications, but it is more serious than that! First of all, having to go out in field service and distrubiting publications that has subliminial images in them is against the law! The field service activity, by using and placing these magazines and boks with satanic and sexual images is ILLEGAL. And from the christian view of things, could we REALLY think that we can obtain a place in the heavens or in the paradise earth if we STILL wish to utilise these publications for the door to door ministry? Preach the good news, yes!- but to use publications with satanic images is WRONG! What I have been doing is to obey the scripture where it says, "Do NOT believe in every inspired utterance, but TEST the inspired utterances to see weither it comes from God". I have "tested" and retested the images shown to BOTH those of the faith and those not in the faith, and they can see some of the ones seen on my webpage http://wtgoathead.webeden.co.uk so its nothing to do with trying to ses images in clouds and so forth. The artists DELIBRATLY placed these images in the pictures for a reason! One of those reasons is to believe in everything that the publications says. For example, I tried to look up the "Anglo-American World Power" in any reference book at my local libraries and found nothing to this reference. Because my life is at stake in worshipping the True God with "spirit and Truth", I ALLWAYS want to speak the truth in all scriptual matters. Now I know that there ARE satanic images in the publications, I do not see why i should use them anymore. This matter is a serious thing, as our very lives are at stake. Jesus said that in the last days that people would be saying, "Lord Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and expel demons in your name...Yet! i will confess to you, I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness". Placing magazines with satanic hidden images is an act of a "worker of lawlessness".

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

All jokes aside, there are sublimnal messages, as i noticed them years ago. But when you go to the effort of using mirrors and seeing homosexual beasteality pictures in the sand that discredits anything which may have been taken seriously.
Whether there in there or not, that is no reason to stop offering them on the doors, as the majority, millions infact do not notice them. Im shure these images have been used for decades, yet still these magazines have served as a tool to help bring people into the truth. I wouldnt be here or neither would anyone else. Jehovah is not blind deaf or dumb, he knows the benefits and the down falls, the things which build up and the things which pull down, but at the end of the day, Jehovah knows despite what evil which exists within and out of the organisation, true hearts will eventually gain the wisdom of why Jehovah allows such things. Theres a saying if its not broken dont fix it, the mags still draw thousands each year, and will stumble hundreds, but the end result will be as Jehovah intended, a great crowd with palm branches in their hands.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Utuna]

My dear sister Shikinah,

You&#39;re here on this board not because you trust the Watchtower, nor because you trust the Governing Body, nor because you trust Watchman, nor because you trust ME and so on ! We&#39;re all here because WE trust our loving God JEHOVAH ! The utmost lighthouse is the BIBLE ! WHO is the true God ? WHAT is His Word ? WHERE is the truth ? WHAT are His ways ?

I&#39;ll never let these sewer-fed guys exploit the spiritual and psychological bleeding wounds of my beloved brothers and sisters to disseminate their filthy poison about the WT. I swear it ! I&#39;ll never let such swindlers transfuse their pork slurry into your spiritual veins. They&#39;ll have to trample my spiritual and intellectual figurative body before having the least second of respite ! They&#39;re just spiritual carrion eaters ! I&#39;ll never let them give any spiritual "coup de grâce" to my beloved broken-hearted brothers and sisters. I don&#39;t care about subliminal pictures ! The trickery behind these denonciations is so obvious ! I care about LOVE and about the BIBLE ! The true healing process is not through stirring mud up to the surface, it is through our God&#39;s healing words ONLY ! I love my brothers and sisters more than anything else in this world ! From now on, I&#39;ll track each and every rotten word this guy writes on this board until he goes back to the mire he came from ! I swear it ! I&#39;m ready for all-out war against anyone endangering the spirituality of my beloved brothers and sisters !

My faith is in God&#39;s Word !

"He will not cry out or raise his voice, and in the street he will not let his voice be heard. No crushed reed will he break, and as for a dim flaxen wick, he will not extinguish it. In trueness he will bring forth justice" - (Is42:2-3)

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Tsaphah]

This is from a post I made back in August, 2008.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

For a minuscule understanding of the subject of so-called subliminal messages, go here and read about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_message

You have to understand the negative connectors used in the statements made. These are words such as claimed, asserted, could have, may be, possibly, etc.
Remember that this is a psychological term, “psychological sublimation”. Psychology is not, and never has been, recognized as a science.

“Psychology is an academic and applied discipline”. As far as subliminal messages go; they are bogus. They always have been and always will be. I have always said that “Common sense isn’t common any more.” You have to use your common sense with this. Or at least use some reasoning. If you can’t see it, how can you have an understanding of it? If you can’t understand it, how can it affect your thinking? If I were to write, Как вы сегодня? Or, Wie gehen Sie heute? Would you understand it? If I flashed it quickly in a message, or said it backwards, what effect would it have? If you do not understand the language, you will not understand, “How are you today?”

As far as art is concerned, the viewer will see what they want to see. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, as the saying goes. It also applies to what is presented in the visual. People see what they want. One of my favorite statements was made by Robert McNamara, “Belief and seeing are often both wrong. We see incorrectly, or we see only half of a story at times. We see what we want to believe.”

It can also be said that we hear what we want believe. “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. Lie, lie, lie.” From the song, The Boxer, by Simon and Garfunkel. People often claim to see Jesus in a popcorn kernel, or a tree, or whatever. Also, the Virgin Mary is seen. I ask, “What does Jesus look like?” How does the bible describe him? How did Peter, James, and John know that they saw Moses and Elijah conversing with Jesus? (Mt 17:3-4, Mr 9:4-5, Lk 9:30-31) There were no pictures, paintings, or sculptures which they were familiar with. You also notice that the accounts were written, not by Peter, James, or John. How did they know who these two men were? How did they know what they saw and experienced? Reason on it.

When it comes to the subject of subliminal messages, or pictures, reason on it!

That’s all for today.

Agapé,
Tsaphah

[shikinah]

My dear sister Shikinah,

You&#39;re here on this board not because you trust the Watchtower, nor because you trust the Governing Body, nor because you trust Watchman, nor because you trust ME and so on ! We&#39;re all here because WE trust our loving God JEHOVAH ! The utmost lighthouse is the BIBLE ! WHO is the true God ? WHAT is His Word ? WHERE is the truth ? WHAT are His ways ?

I&#39;ll never let these sewer-fed guys exploit the spiritual and psychological bleeding wounds of my beloved brothers and sisters to disseminate their filthy poison about the WT. I swear it ! I&#39;ll never let such swindlers transfuse their pork slurry into your spiritual veins. They&#39;ll have to trample my spiritual and intellectual figurative body before having the least second of respite ! They&#39;re just spiritual carrion eaters ! I&#39;ll never let them give any spiritual "coup de grâce" to my beloved broken-hearted brothers and sisters. I don&#39;t care about subliminal pictures ! The trickery behind these denonciations is so obvious ! I care about LOVE and about the BIBLE ! The true healing process is not through stirring mud up to the surface, it is through our God&#39;s healing words ONLY ! I love my brothers and sisters more than anything else in this world ! From now on, I&#39;ll track each and every rotten word this guy writes on this board until he goes back to the mire he came from ! I swear it ! I&#39;m ready for all-out war against anyone endangering the spirituality of my beloved brothers and sisters !

My faith is in God&#39;s Word !

"He will not cry out or raise his voice, and in the street he will not let his voice be heard. No crushed reed will he break, and as for a dim flaxen wick, he will not extinguish it. In trueness he will bring forth justice" - (Is42:2-3)

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton[/b]

May i just point out that the world has the bible, but do they know Jehovah? He has and will use the watchtower to teach people of every tribe and tongue that he is the true god. We cannot judge every one who is involved with the watchtower, i dont believe all are corrupt, the same as all who are in christendom are evil. We cannot change a thing, and Jehovah allows an operation of error to go out to test his own people, if this didnt occur and those at the top didnt take the bait, then prophesy wouldnt be fulfilled, its like saying judas shouldnt have done what he did, yes it was an evil thing but its part of prophesy. What go&#39;s forth from Jehovahs mouth does not return without results.

Elizabeth

[Utuna]

Dear Shikinah,

I don&#39;t believe in fatalism ! The lives of our b/s are at stake ! If some folks are more interested in fables than in truth, it is not my business... as long as my conscience is clear. What the WT did in the past or is still doing is not my business. It&#39;ll be Jesus&#39; business when he inspects his anointed slaves.

My business is about the way my dear brothers and sisters react in front of what is called "fight for truth". The Governing Body may be guilty of billions of awful deeds, I don&#39;t care about it ! I care about the spirituality of my b/s and about helping them to see God only as the true Healer. What is the spiritual content of the posts of this guy ? What is the spiritual content of countless accounts of rapes done by elders ? What is it for ? The true healing process can only be achieved thanks to genuine spiritual help, through hope, through faith, through love ! I don&#39;t need someone else continually holding my face down into the mud in order to understand that it&#39;s dirty and that it hurts. I don&#39;t want to be hurt, I want to find comfort, solace ! I want others to find it too. What&#39;s the point of remaining in the mud in order to warn others how much it hurts ? Is it not better to get out of it and to help others to find the ways out too ? Do we build our faith in God with a mortar made with filth and blood or do we build our faith in God with a mortar made with the fruit of Holy Spirit?

Is our mind and heart stuck on past abject deeds or on future bright hopes ?

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

You forgot one word, help through forgiveness. I understand where your coming from and i know the stumblings which has been done, but we cant harbour anger as this destroys the fruitage of the spirit. Yes he shows his website, but i believe its because he truely believes what he sees and its not with bad intent. I think him coming on this site will help him see, that despite what we see, it doesnt stop us giving an awake to the next person. He&#39;s obviously lost and taken all of this too far, lets pray that Jehovah will help him see and understand the crafty acts of satan in this time of the end.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Utuna]

Dear shikinah,

Time will tell if this guy came on this board in search for the truth or to promote his brand new site ! If the content or the kind of arguments he&#39;s using gets later more pertinent and reasonable, I&#39;ll apologize for my unkind words.

Our brain creates its own perception of reality based on how it was created. I mean that it was created to make sense of what appears before the eyes. That&#39;s why, at night, the constellations seem to have a shape whereas in reality some of its stars are billions of km away from the others. Why do we see funny shapes while peering at the clouds? Why did Chaldeans read ideograms, considered as the words of pagan gods, from the small liver veins of the sacrificed animals ?

On the contrary, that&#39;s also why we think that Chinese or African people, for example, look all the same whereas they don&#39;t have such difficulties between them. Our brain needs to get used to new facial reference points in order to easily distinguish them individually. In the same vein, our brain was created (or is more used to it) to assess more easily horizontal spatial reference points than vertical ones. Why is it so hard to evaluate vertical distances whereas horizontal ones are easier?

What I want to explain is that you will find subliminal or embedded images everywhere. You will find in any picture what your imagination or your inner feelings what to find.

Example : Watchman says in his essays that London is the throne of Satan. I have a proof ! What is it ? The British flag ! The site of this guy points out and folds shapes like ">" in order to create "><". From now on, with imagination, it&#39;s easy to see the face of the Devil or so, with horns and split beard. The British flag ? With imagination, I see the "X" shape and the "cross" shape embedded together. Double sign looking like the satanic pentagram....

Whether the painters of the WT did it or not is not my business. I intend to demonstrate that such denunciations are not pertinent at all and that they should be considered with utmost cautiousness.

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

It obvious as to why people think all african and all chinese look the same, its because in their race, there is seldom a variation in hair or eye colour, and have similar shaped faces. Where as european/white etc have blonde, red, brown hair and blue, green, grey or brown eyes. A painting which has been deliberately altered to offend is completely different. As i stated before, why would there be an artical in the witness book about the sanctity of marriage, and then show the wedding ring on the right hand, this isnt an error its deliberate, was this a subliminal message? it was a picture of a black couple, in the time of slavery black people could not marry. Why put the man wearing a ring in the first place, not all married men wear rings. Theres been a few things, but there not major to me now, but in the past they were of great concern. Now i know about the NGO and watchtower involvement nothing would surprise me. if they had some jesuite priest painting for the organisation that wouldnt phase me either. All im saying is these things do exist, but we shouldnt be consumed by it, i think the brother feels we were unaware of these images, but now he needs to search out the scriptures which speakes about the man of lawlessness and understand where we are right now at this moment in time.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[watchman]

Apparently. i know that many would like to ignore the fact that there are subliminial images in the publications, but it is more serious than that! First of all, having to go out in field service and distrubiting publications that has subliminial images in them is against the law! The field service activity, by using and placing these magazines and boks with satanic and sexual images is ILLEGAL.[/b]
Hi Bin

Quick question: Why do you say that distributing literature with subliminal images is illegal? Truth is, Madison Avenue has been using subliminal images and hidden messages for decades, and with powerful software editing now I am sure they do things that are beyond detection. But how could it possibly be illegal to manipulate images?

Coincidently I read a couple of books on subliminals back in the 70&#39;s, long before they started turning up in the WT literature. I have come to appreciate that subliminals are quite common. If anyone is interested in examining the issue of subliminals here is a wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_message) on the topic

It is interesting that in Isaiah, the same chapter where Jehovah says "you are my witnesses," God says that he was Israel&#39;s God before there was found among you a "strange god." It is evident that in many ways the WT has a "strange god" in their midst. The subliminal stuff is just one more manifestation of it.

By the way, I appreciate your website. It is good that someone is archiving and documenting this stuff. "wtGoatshead," that&#39;s great. Wasn&#39;t there a Rolling Stones album named Goat&#39;s Head Soup? LOL

watchman

P.S. I have noticed a few typos on your site. You might want to use a spellchecker or have someone edit it for you. Takes away from your credibility.

[Utuna]

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

Thank you for that peice of information, funny enough i did wonder if printing a picture wether it could appear reversed and now i know its possible. :mellow:

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Utuna]

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

I cant be bothered to do all that im computer illiterate :sad2:

[Utuna]

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[binsubimages]

<div class='quotemain'>Apparently. i know that many would like to ignore the fact that there are subliminial images in the publications, but it is more serious than that! First of all, having to go out in field service and distrubiting publications that has subliminial images in them is against the law! The field service activity, by using and placing these magazines and boks with satanic and sexual images is ILLEGAL.[/b]
Hi Bin

Quick question: Why do you say that distributing literature with subliminal images is illegal? Truth is, Madison Avenue has been using subliminal images and hidden messages for decades, and with powerful software editing now I am sure they do things that are beyond detection. But how could it possibly be illegal to manipulate images?
[/b][/quote] Yes, there are magazines, books, websites ect on the subject of subliminial imagery. But there is a difference between people knowing about it or not. Most JWs do not know about it- which makes it illegal in all countries- including America! The use of satanic and seual images does actually work! According to one book on the subject, it destroys the brain part of the reasoning area. This is why, subjects such as this- even when show then FROM THE PUBLICATIONS all brothers wiould act unreasonable and deny that they are there- even when they do see the images. Some people term it as mind control. For example, we all know about the last world power as the "Anglo-American World Power2= a duel world power betweem Brition and America. However, in 1 John 4:1, it tells us to "test" out all things that are "inspired expressions"- which would mean from the publications that we read. (See Awake! June 22 2000 p10) I have to admit that during the 30yrs that I have been a JW, I have never tested the teachings that we are taught! And to the !Anglo-American World Power", I cannot fing ANY reference to this World Power" even from my local liburary. It does not actually exist, as we shoould have TONS of info on the subject seeing it seems to have started in 1763- even though around 1776 (4th july) Brition and America were at war against each other! Subliminial images puts FEAR in the minds of those reading the publications, it destroys the thought of reasoning like my mother. I have talked with her about the teachings and the sub images, and in the end she says for me not to worry about the images and the teachings. And as her defence on these subjects, she diverts from these subjects and to inform me of the importance of the preaching work. How a person can declare Gods Kingdom approching and to solve mankinds problems with publications with satanic and sexual images in them is beyond me. Jesus said, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name...and yet i will confess to you, ..get away from me you workers of lawlessness." I do not want to be a "worker of lawlessness", do you?

[truthseeker]

<div class='quotemain'>Apparently. i know that many would like to ignore the fact that there are subliminial images in the publications, but it is more serious than that! First of all, having to go out in field service and distrubiting publications that has subliminial images in them is against the law! The field service activity, by using and placing these magazines and boks with satanic and sexual images is ILLEGAL.[/b]
Hi Bin

Quick question: Why do you say that distributing literature with subliminal images is illegal? Truth is, Madison Avenue has been using subliminal images and hidden messages for decades, and with powerful software editing now I am sure they do things that are beyond detection. But how could it possibly be illegal to manipulate images?

Coincidently I read a couple of books on subliminals back in the 70&#39;s, long before they started turning up in the WT literature. I have come to appreciate that subliminals are quite common. If anyone is interested in examining the issue of subliminals here is a wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_message) on the topic

It is interesting that in Isaiah, the same chapter where Jehovah says "you are my witnesses," God says that he was Israel&#39;s God before there was found among you a "strange god." It is evident that in many ways the WT has a "strange god" in their midst. The subliminal stuff is just one more manifestation of it.

By the way, I appreciate your website. It is good that someone is archiving and documenting this stuff. "wtGoatshead," that&#39;s great. Wasn&#39;t there a Rolling Stones album named Goat&#39;s Head Soup? LOL

watchman

P.S. I have noticed a few typos on your site. You might want to use a spellchecker or have someone edit it for you. Takes away from your credibility.
[/b][/quote]


By the way, I appreciate your website. It is good that someone is archiving and documenting this stuff. "wtGoatshead," that&#39;s great.

What Web Site???
Truthseeker

[Rogue]

I have taken a look at the goats head website, and I was very open minded and expected clear proof, but instead I saw loads and loads of images that needed to be fowlded and mirrored to even see something, and even if this was done, I didn&#39;t find the images that appeared very shocking, most of the time the comment was: look closely and you will see some sort of a face.. sometimes starwars figures, sometimes funny faces with big noses... how exactely are these satanic images? I thought that the name goats heads ment that there would me loads of pictures with subliminal goat heads, but there were very few, and some were debatable... As for all the faces in trees and leaves and cloads and rocks... I don&#39;t see why this is so shocking realy... you know, if u stare at my bedroom curtains at night I can see hundreds of different faces, with a little imagination... do my curtains contain subliminal images? Even looking at my wall i can see faces if I wanted to, I mean, that are games kids play... like seeing things in clouds... I think I have so far seen maybe two or three images that I thought: well, that is interesting... the one with the black man who is looking at the image of a goats head on the table, the &#39;monster&#39; form that has JAH as teath and the Zeus face in the robe of a sister preaching... those were there, there was no need for folding or mirroring or anything... but I think the rest of it is somewhat of a wild goose chase... seeing things because you want to see them!

[Rogue]

Kinda like Hermann Rorschach&#39;s inktests... what a persons sees in a random ink stain tells more about one&#39;s psyche than about the stain doesn&#39;t it? I think if a persons sees demonfaces or satanic things by triple folding or mirroring or whatever... isn&#39;t it because the person is determined to see SOMETHING!

Just my theory...

[James]

What Web Site???
Truthseeker[/b]

You will find that which you seek in post #83

[Desert Blossom]

For example, we all know about the last world power as the "Anglo-American World Power2= a duel world power betweem Brition and America. However, in 1 John 4:1, it tells us to "test" out all things that are "inspired expressions"- which would mean from the publications that we read. (See Awake! June 22 2000 p10) I have to admit that during the 30yrs that I have been a JW, I have never tested the teachings that we are taught! And to the !Anglo-American World Power", I cannot fing ANY reference to this World Power" even from my local liburary. It does not actually exist, as we shoould have TONS of info on the subject seeing it seems to have started in 1763- even though around 1776 (4th july) Brition and America were at war against each other![/b]

Did you give Google a try?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship

[binsubimages]

<div class='quotemain'>For example, we all know about the last world power as the "Anglo-American World Power2= a duel world power betweem Brition and America. However, in 1 John 4:1, it tells us to "test" out all things that are "inspired expressions"- which would mean from the publications that we read. (See Awake! June 22 2000 p10) I have to admit that during the 30yrs that I have been a JW, I have never tested the teachings that we are taught! And to the !Anglo-American World Power", I cannot fing ANY reference to this World Power" even from my local liburary. It does not actually exist, as we shoould have TONS of info on the subject seeing it seems to have started in 1763- even though around 1776 (4th july) Brition and America were at war against each other![/b]

Did you give Google a try?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship
[/b][/quote] The thing is, is that there is news items and info about the relations between the U.k an the U.S. BUT there is NO evidence that there is a "Anglo-American World Power"! We will find items of relations between the uk and the usa, we also will find relations between America and France and relations between the uk and france, ect, ect, ect! I spoke to my mum (also a JW) who had an encyclopidea cd-rom and there was nothing in relation to the "Anglo-American World Power" See what you can dig up when you type in "Anglo-American World Power" under the heading of "Anglo-American World Power"- but there is none!! There is the "Anglo-Saxons", and when we type in "Anglo-American", this ONLY means the english-speaking people or decendents from brition that is living in America- that is all!

[Utuna]

Dear all,

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[shikinah]

Satans at it again, funny enough thats where my inlaws were from Reunion :rolleyes:

[Rogue]

hahahahh Utuna that newsitem is priceless.... can u believe how easy people are manipulated into mass histeria... incredible... a Jesus-face in a pillow!!!
This is just my point when I commented on this topic about the subliminal images in WT publications, if you have to trippe fold, mirror and turn a picture untill u can finaly see an undefined sort of face, that could resemble a starwars-figure or a funny looking, clown-like figure... who realy has issues then... the one making the drawings or the one who sees these subliminal images? I could find all sorts of faces in my curtains if I stare at them at night in my bed... mayeb I can even find Jesus ;)

[Utuna]

Dear all,

Another one !

<span style="font-family:Arial Narrow">http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/14/2009-04-14_does_nasas_photograph_of_pulsar_b1509_capture_t he_hand_of_god.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/14/2009-04-14_does_nasas_photograph_of_pulsar_b1509_capture_t he_hand_of_god.html)</span>

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Peter]

<a href="http://e-watchman.com/commentaries/watchtower-subliminal-images.html" target="_blank">
</a>

<a href="http://e-watchman.com/commentaries/watchtower-subliminal-images.html" target="_blank">
</a>

<a href="http://e-watchman.com/commentaries/watchtower-subliminal-images.html" target="_blank">Subliminal images
</a>




<a href="http://e-watchman.com/commentaries/watchtower-subliminal-images.html" target="_blank">
</a>

[Rogue]

Dear all,

Another one !

<span style="font-family:Arial Narrow">http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/14/2009-04-14_does_nasas_photograph_of_pulsar_b1509_capture_t he_hand_of_god.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/14/2009-04-14_does_nasas_photograph_of_pulsar_b1509_capture_t he_hand_of_god.html)</span>

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton[/b]

Wow that is a beautiful picture... it is amazing how much it looks like a hand, is&#39;t almost perfeclty shaped like a hand... but it is absurd to think that human technology can capture a part of God on a picture... but it is a beautiful picture...

[Rogue]

Hi peter,
I have read the article, and I have looked into the website about the subliminal goats heads and stuff, and Watchman&#39;s essay may be right, there might have been some subliminal images in the WT literature, the Zeus face is clear of course, but why it is there, is another story, is it a satanic image? Of allt he images on the goats head website, I may have found 2 at the most that I thought of: well, maybe there is a subliminal image in it... the rest looked like a goose chase (or maybe better put: funny faces chace) to me , it didn&#39;t make any sense, especialy the triple folded, mirrored images... like I said, I can find all sorts of images in my curtains or walls or wherever, if I use my imagination, but does that make them subliminal, satanic images? I think it says more about the person determined to find these images... anyway, my conclusion is: there might have been occassions where subliminal images were used in WT literature, but I wonder what the effect of the Zeus face was, was it a joke or was it intended to effect our brain some level?

[Utuna]

Dear all,

I&#39;m fond of that kind of experimental tests!

I share it with you, my dear b/s, just for fun! Our brain has many real scientific mysteries to teach us about the greatness of our Wonderful Creator!

<span style="font-family:Verdana">http://illusioncontest.neuralcorrelate.com/2009/the-break-of-the-curveball/ (http://illusioncontest.neuralcorrelate.com/2009/the-break-of-the-curveball/)</span>

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Juan]

True the WT&#39;s publications have released illustrations with weird stuff in them... so the question that arises is:

If the WT did this on purpose and if their goal was to promote satanic worshiping or spiritual infiltration, then shouldn&#39;t we be seeing that within the teachings and ways of worshiping by JWs? or simply: Wouldn&#39;t we be able to see their intentions based on the public reaction indirectly to this?

Instead we are seeing JW families striving to be pure and clean or "shining" light amongst a world full of darkness, which goes completely against the spirit of this world.

Every meeting and convention stresses the importance of families staying spiritual and clean, especially the younger people.

So I wouldn&#39;t take this too seriously, all it may do is distract you from your mission, besides if it was indeed subliminally trying to reach you, then it hasn&#39;t worked well on anyone beside those who have stopped preaching or caused them to see their brothers in a different light, or as enemies because of this.

If you allowed this to distract you, and have used it as an excuse to not be busy with the ministry, then it has worked on some.

[Juan]

True the WT&#39;s publications have released illustrations with weird stuff in them... so the question that arises is:

If the WT did this on purpose and if their goal was to promote satanic worshiping or spiritual infiltration, then shouldn&#39;t we be seeing that within the teachings and ways of worshiping by JWs? or simply: Wouldn&#39;t we be able to see their intentions based on the public reaction indirectly to this?

Instead we are seeing JW families striving to be pure and clean or "shining" light amongst a world full of darkness, which goes completely against the spirit of this world.

Every meeting and convention stresses the importance of families staying spiritual and clean, especially the younger people.

So I wouldn&#39;t take this too seriously, all it may do is distract you from your mission, besides if it was indeed subliminally trying to reach you, then it hasn&#39;t worked well on anyone beside those who have stopped preaching or caused them to see their brothers in a different light, or as enemies because of this.

If you allowed this to distract you, and have used it as an excuse to not be busy with the ministry, then it has worked on some.

[shikinah]

True the WT&#39;s publications have released illustrations with weird stuff in them... so the question that arises is:

If the WT did this on purpose and if their goal was to promote satanic worshiping or spiritual infiltration, then shouldn&#39;t we be seeing that within the teachings and ways of worshiping by JWs? or simply: Wouldn&#39;t we be able to see their intentions based on the public reaction indirectly to this?

Instead we are seeing JW families striving to be pure and clean or "shining" light amongst a world full of darkness, which goes completely against the spirit of this world.

Every meeting and convention stresses the importance of families staying spiritual and clean, especially the younger people.

So I wouldn&#39;t take this too seriously, all it may do is distract you from your mission, besides if it was indeed subliminally trying to reach you, then it hasn&#39;t worked well on anyone beside those who have stopped preaching or caused them to see their brothers in a different light, or as enemies because of this.

If you allowed this to distract you, and have used it as an excuse to not be busy with the ministry, then it has worked on some.[/b]

I think its true, it doesnt effect most of the individuals who dont know about these things, i dont think its designed to work that way. It effects you when its shown to you out of the blue by someone else, then you take the pics and ask for an explanation from an elder and he doesnt know how its come about, then they ask bethel and you never end up getting an answer. Then you either forget it or do a bit of research. Then the research digs up about pyramidology and freemasonry and then your really in a fix. Its how your heart is which determines which course you&#39;ll take, i learnt the hard way to the point of spiritual attack and fighting for my life. I could have turned apostate but i went full circle looking for the accurate truth which took me back to Jehovah. So it worked out to be the hardest test i&#39;ve ever faced, thats why some are probably here while some are marching outside assemblys with apostate notice boards.