Questions About Greg Stafford, The Reliability Of The Nwt, And Questions Regarding The Ouster Of Satan From Heaven [Archive] - e-Jehovah's Witnesses: A Place for Jehovah's Witnesses and Interested Ones

Administration

01-28-2008, 09:41 PM

<div class='quotemain'>Questions about Greg Stafford, the reliability of the NWT, and questions regarding the ouster of Satan from heaven... these are some of the topics discussed in the latest podcast from e-Watchman Radio. Why not tune in and have a listen?

e-Watchman Radio (http://e-jehovahs-witness.com/) (Available in dial-up, broadband, and MP3 audio formats)[/b]Thanks, but it takes forever for me to download radio, as I don't have broadband as yet. Do you have it in file read. Cheers :0095:
[/b][/quote]

The dial-up audio format is a streaming audio format that allows listeners with 56K dial-up service to play the podcast in its entirety via the internet. The time involved is only the length of the podcast.

To download the podcast, you would need to download the MP3 format file, which is 54megs or so, and therefore would take a very long time to fully download via dial-up.

panda

01-28-2008, 11:09 PM

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Questions about Greg Stafford, the reliability of the NWT, and questions regarding the ouster of Satan from heaven... these are some of the topics discussed in the latest podcast from e-Watchman Radio. Why not tune in and have a listen?

e-Watchman Radio (http://e-jehovahs-witness.com/) (Available in dial-up, broadband, and MP3 audio formats)[/b]Thanks, but it takes forever for me to download radio, as I don't have broadband as yet. Do you have it in file read. Cheers :0095:
[/b][/quote]

The dial-up audio format is a streaming audio format that allows listeners with 56K dial-up service to play the podcast in its entirety via the internet. The time involved is only the length of the podcast.

To download the podcast, you would need to download the MP3 format file, which is 54megs or so, and therefore would take a very long time to fully download via dial-up.
[/b][/quote]Thank you will give it a go. :liefde026:

Jinnvisible

01-29-2008, 04:49 AM

thanks e-w

Nash

01-29-2008, 05:30 AM

I too enjoyed the podcast.

The New World Translation is an excellent rendition of the Holy Scriptures. Many other translations tend to read as stories, and the scriptures seem to lose their authority.

Interestingly, I have in my possession a 1971 edition of the Jerusalem Bible. I am not sure of later editions, but my edition has "Yahweh" everywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures. It's a keeper. It's nice to see that there are still bibles which have Jehovah's name in it in abundance.

Nash

billy

01-29-2008, 09:53 AM

i looked up the Greg Stafford website - he seems to have gone down the same path of many others by charging to read his ideas! -

I dont recall Jesus charging to hear the truth

Peter

01-29-2008, 04:54 PM

Peter

stayawake

01-29-2008, 06:15 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Peter)</div>
Peter [/b]

Hello Peter
What is it with you WT brothers !
Your going to defend the WT regardless of how Jehovah feels about her sins aren't you !!

I would be very careful about that, as you came on a board where Jehovah has uncovered her sins and provided a place for those who took sides with HIM.

Knowing this board has Jehovahs backing you have the nerve to want to Challenge the NGO affair.
When are you going to stand up and be MIGHTY and take sides with Jehovah ? 1 Cor 16:13.

What is it PETER did you make a deal at your JCM to come back and conquer ?

I take it from the above greeting , from the spelling of my name
that,
that wave is not a greeting ,but a wave of goodbye.

Hate to dissipoint you but I'm here until Robert takes away my freedom to defend the truth.
Now to answer your question NO
it was not in my post, but whats the difference,
Robert will even tell you the WT beame a partner with the beast.

Whats your problem ?

Love stay awake

billy

01-29-2008, 08:34 PM

I was wondering Peter if Jehovah is coming to judge Babylon the Great (all religion) and starts with the house of God (presumably Jehovah's Witnesses) wouldnt that make Jehovah's Witnesses part of Babylon the Great?

billy

01-29-2008, 08:37 PM

Stayawake

I love your comments and pressence on this board - you have been very encouraging and helpful to me - and i see a strong sense of intergrity to truth based on Jehovah's Word :buja_w_oblokach:

billy

01-29-2008, 08:52 PM

To be fair to Greg Stafford - even though he charges for his literature - there is alot of free information on his site that is very thought provoking

watchman

01-29-2008, 09:20 PM

Hello Peter
What is it with you WT brothers !
Your going to defend the WT regardless of how Jehovah feels about her sins aren't you !!

I would be very careful about that, as you came on a board where Jehovah has uncovered her sins and provided a place for those who took sides with HIM.

Knowing this board has Jehovahs backing you have the nerve to want to Challenge the NGO affair.
When are you going to stand up and be MIGHTY and take sides with Jehovah ? 1 Cor 16:13.

What is it PETER did you make a deal at your JCM to come back and conquer ?

I take it from the above greeting , from the spelling of my name
that,
that wave is not a greeting ,but a wave of goodbye.

Hate to dissipoint you but I'm here until Robert takes away my freedom to defend the truth.
Now to answer your question NO
it was not in my post, but whats the difference,
Robert will even tell you the WT beame a partner with the beast.

Whats your problem ?

Love stay awake[/b]

Dear Stayawake, Why the hostility?

Watchman

Deborah

01-29-2008, 09:33 PM

Berean

01-29-2008, 09:51 PM

It's presumably a reference to Isaiah 65:17, which reads: 'For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.'

watchman

01-29-2008, 09:59 PM

Does anybody else find it creepy that there is a New World Order and our bible is the New World translation? I may be sensitive because all of the secret society, illuminati, etc... is pretty new for me. Why was our bible named the New World? Is there any evidence of why it was selected as the title?

Thank you.
Love, Deborah[/b]

Keep in mind that Jesus referred to the system to come, or literally a new order or new age. But Satan, being a mimic, has his own new order or new world, whatever you want to call it.

Jinnvisible

01-29-2008, 10:09 PM

I agree with berean and watchman. I think its has to do with the notion of a New system.

Yet I believe they also wanted to tie that in with the idea of the U.S.A. as the 'New Wolrd'. Thats what America used to be called by the European invaders errr opps i mean settlers.

The U.S.A did provide a place where New bible movements could flourish with educated people outside of the grip of the churches of Europe.

More evidence for this is also the term `Pioneer` which is obviously not a term from the bible but one from exactly the same period of romantic American idealism as the term 'The New World'.

There are those who would like to make more out of it yet the New World Translation has merit and distinctions that in my view hold it up as being and execelent work overall.

I don't think that the American idealism is has helped in the Wt prophetic interpretations, ther exists an invisible cultural bias which isn't helpfull to my mind.

billy

01-29-2008, 10:27 PM

"new world order" was a term i used going door to door with the intention of explaining there is a better world to come through Christ Jesus - using that expression backfired a few times as the householders were thinking i was at their doorstep promoting a political new world order brought in by the govenments - they didnt give me a chance to explain that was not my intention as they shut the door and walked alway!

billy

01-29-2008, 10:29 PM

Peter

01-29-2008, 10:30 PM

Calm down there was no offence intended.

Eli's Foe

01-29-2008, 11:05 PM

Interesting podcast Watchman - thank you, not sure I agree with everything you say regarding the NWT but that issue has been done to death in recent months on the db.

I do want to just address the issue which Peter raised and which placed our sister Stayawake so much on the defensive. Peter it is I think a little disingenuous of you to say no offence was intended, of course it would be naive to accept that as entirely true. I do know however that you are a genuine brother, but I have to tell you that you got this just plain wrong. Stayawake was not the writer to whom you ascribe those comments, and this also answers Robert's question as to why she appears in her post to be "hostile". She has been falsely accused and it must be left with you Peter to decide how to remedy that wrong. I know this to be the case because the thread on which the comment to which you refer appeared was originally initiated by me, and I therefore took greater than usual interest in the comments of other contributors.

The fact remains, that however uncomfortable a notion it may be, the WTS is up to its ears in wrongdoing and whatever truths were once uncovered by its founders, those who have followed have turned it into an organisation no better than BTG, it does after all receive a judgement before BTG and it will be well deserved.

EF

Peter

01-29-2008, 11:08 PM

Peter

Eli's Foe

01-29-2008, 11:10 PM

</span>

Peter [/b]

It goes further than that Peter.

EF

Peter

01-29-2008, 11:15 PM

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>I can assure you it doesn't, and insincere I'm not even though I admit I'm in the wrong.</span>

DoubtingThomas

01-29-2008, 11:15 PM

Dear stayawake, I must give you some loving correction dear sister. Perhaps you forgot. But you did indeed state on another thread that the Watchtower was part of Babylon the Great. Like I say, perhaps you forgot saying that, or perhaps you meant to type something else. But I too was going to bring that up with you, and address the issue, but I did not, because you already feel that I have something against you personally, and you have stated that I have already made you cry before. I did not want to make you any further angry with me at that time, so I just let the issue drop hoping that someone else would catch it. I did not want to add any additional stress or pressure to you at that time. But I agree with Peter and think it should be discussed on a new thread if you really are of the opinion that God's organization is part of Babylon The Great. That is not what Robert teaches, and not what most believe on this board, as far as I have been able to discern anyway.

My Christian Love,

DT

DoubtingThomas

01-29-2008, 11:26 PM

I agree with Nash that "The New World Translation is an excellent rendition of the Holy Scriptures."

I also wonder the same thing as you do watchman "Why the hostility stayawake?"

If you read through some of your post they just ooze with anger stayawake. It is directed towards your brothers and sisters here. I can understand ones coming here with a certain amount of dissapointment and even anger towards the Watchtower, but not towards fellow board members, many of us are here under the risk of disfellowshipping (myself included), and losing all contact with our loved ones that are still trapped by false Watchtower teachings, and then we come here for encouragement and have to listen to your angry rants. Something is not right with that. I have received numeorus PM's from others here about your anger too stayawake, but they just don't want to rock the boat, even though I asked them to confront you directly. But I can assure you stayawake, that others too are disturbed by the hostility, not just watchman.

DT

SlaveForJah

01-29-2008, 11:32 PM

And as Satan looks on right now...he thinks...

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/24805BP~The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excellent.jpg

Brothers and Sisters...let's please remember Peter's words to us:

Agape

SlaveForJah
</span></span>

stayawake

01-30-2008, 12:29 AM

I also wonder the same thing as you do watchman "Why the hostility stayawake?"

If you read through some of your post they just ooze with anger stayawake. It is directed towards your brothers and sisters here. I can understand ones coming here with a certain amount of dissapointment and even anger towards the Watchtower, but not towards fellow board members, many of us here (myself included) under the risk of disfellowshipping, and losing all contact with our loved ones still trapped by false Watchtower teachings, and then we come here for encouragement and have to listen to your angry rants. Something is not right with that. I have received numeorus PM's from others here about your anger too stayawake, but they just don't want to rock the boat, even though I asked them to confront you directly. But I can assure you stayawake, that others too are disturbed by the hostility, not just watchman.

DT[/b]
Dear DT
Today has been a big day for me . A double wammy !
It's really sad that the friends don't realize my anger against the WT is because of what they did to Jehovah

Has every one gone to sleep?
I am counciled for not going to my brother in private, why my dear friends haven't you done the same ?
I really did not know I was so disliked, and I apoligize for my overstay.

Thank you Billy for your post,at least not all have complained about me.That took courage.

I felt I had a right to be honest, after all I wasn't saying anything ,that Robert Kings book hasn't said.
What has happened here ?

this started out as a hiding place for the sheep that were abused by the WT sheperds.
It was a place of refreshment where we didn't have to weigh our words and find some sort of peace to keep our sanity, after finding out the sins of the WT.
Then all of a sudden those who are defending the WT are extending the KH into what was once a place of shelter.

Jehovah must have another place in my journey, or maybe just wait in the wilderness along with His word .
That shouln't be a hardship as I know,
""Jehovah and one is a big Army""

I don't stay where I'm not welcome. I want you all to know I really loved this board, and never meant any harm/ i'm sorry for the freedom I thought I had

DT i feel bad that you never came to me to tell me how the friends felt, no wonder you were always after me with all the compoaints you were recieving.
Are you one of the monitors ? Just wondering/
I thank you for your honesty cuz I would never feel the same
staying here,

Please remove my membership
I pray that some day all will feel the hurt that Jah has gone thru ,by those who claim to be HIS witnesses

Love stayawake

So to all of you friends that have reported me

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 12:41 AM

No I am not any board monitor here stayawake. And I would like you to please reconsider any decision, if you are contemplating to leave this board. You are loved here, as many have expressed. Your wisdon and experience can be beneficial to others. But the anger and hostility I find disturbing, and I know others do also. Of course Jehovah hates the sins of the leaders in His organization. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Jah's people need the love and comfort and reassurance that this is a safe haven. The anger and hostility does not provide that. You need to build a bridge and get over it (the anger) so that you can be more productive in helping your brothers and sisters that are being beaten down by wicked shepherds and false prophetic interpretation.

DT

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 12:59 AM

I think you are falsely judging Peter here EF. If he makes a publicly apology, and he says it was only a matter of a spelling mistake, nothing more, why can't you believe him?

DT

SlaveForJah

01-30-2008, 01:07 AM

<div class='quotemain'><div align="center">they were written to ME!!! May we all apply this kind of love NOW in behalf of our Brothers and Sisters.

Agape

SlaveForJah

Deborah

01-30-2008, 01:21 AM

Amen.

watchman

01-30-2008, 01:23 AM

Dear Stayawake

I am not going to have Timothy close your account right now. Of course you may choose not to post anything, but at least take some time to think things over and don't do anything hasty. If after a week or so you still want to close your account we will.

Watchman

James

01-30-2008, 01:26 AM

'Unwitting partners?'

No. :( All religion is now part of Babylon the Great. The stage is set for the final act of the drama.

Love,

Steadfast[/b]

I believe this is the post that EF was referring to that was wrongly ascribed to stayawake? I could be mistaken.

agape,
James

Jeshurun

01-30-2008, 01:56 AM

Dear Stayawake,

I don't think Peter did anything intentional, just my opinion of what I know about him. Sometimes we type in a hurry and these things happen.

DT, I can't imagine who would have all those complaints about Stayawake, and if they did, why ask YOU about it?

Since we're talking about PM's when we shouldn't be, I think I would like to let everyone here know that you told me one thing in a PM, and then you said the total opposite on the open board the next day, stabbing me in the back.

So now you have driven dear Stayawake out of here, and you're a big reason why I'm outta here too. Whether you realize it or not, you still worship your organization, because you refuse to see that Kabbalistic Freemasons are feeding you all that vomit you take in several times a week, and your Bible is missing ten percent of the text, and has been altered in another large percentage. They are steering their sheep to the slaughter, because they are right up there at the top of the pyramid.

Congratulations,
and Toodles. :wave:

Jinnvisible

01-30-2008, 04:54 AM

Dear Stayawake,

I know that we have differing views on some issues although with you I cannot call to mind any of what they are. I would have to go and look at the posts to see what they are. I generally think of you as being stable level headed so I guess things have just come to a head.

I'm gratefull that you take the board seriously enough to express your indignance, you have contributed allot to the disscussions and you seem to generally avoid argumentativeness. Very sorry that something has gone wrong.

There was a cartoon, one from the 1960's or 70's, it was like an information film and it showed that when otherwise reasonable people get into cars they turn red and grow horns. I think its a bit like that communicating on the forum format. I think things that are sometimes small problems get magnified all of a sudden.

I'm not sure i fully understand what has gone wrong or what the personal differences are so I appologise for not be able to say very much about it. If you decide to stay with us i promise i will try harder to pay attention to what you say and give you the serious regard that you deserve.

For now I just wanted to say thank you for working hard to find solid input, working to make a contribution that has been notibly consistent. Hope to see you back on the board again after a well deserved vacation.

wish you were here.

Hey Peter your Post was a GEM.

What is it we have here ??

Believe it or not we certainly do have Religion verses the Bible
Orchid thats a great way to lead Hubby to Jehovah. with out preaching
when some thing in opposition to Gods word takes place you might say
" If they really knew God this or that wouldnt happen.""
After a time then u may qoute just what Gods word does say.

Thank u Peter
Love stayawake[/b]

Jinnvisible

01-30-2008, 05:13 AM

So now you have driven dear Stayawake out of here, and you're a big reason why I'm outta here too. Whether you realize it or not, you still worship your organization, because you refuse to see that Kabbalistic Freemasons are feeding you all that vomit you take in several times a week, and your Bible is missing ten percent of the text, and has been altered in another large percentage.[/b]

I think the problem with the literature is 'leaven' more specifically than Masonic Kabbala and the New World Translation is my preference. I think these differences are really nothing to do with stayawake's being upset which she deserves a bit of understanding about.

I know you post alot of what you post here on other boards Jesh. So I promise to have a read If i can.

Take care.

Eli's Foe

01-30-2008, 08:12 AM

<div class='quotemain'>'Unwitting partners?'

No. :( All religion is now part of Babylon the Great. The stage is set for the final act of the drama.

Love,

Steadfast[/b]

I believe this is the post that EF was referring to that was wrongly ascribed to stayawake? I could be mistaken.

agape,
James
[/b][/quote]

Thank you James, yes this is the post to which I referred. Steadfast also has my respect and I will not be drawn into commenting on her statement here. This is though Peter, why I said that your apology should go further (any apology is I am sure welcome, but it is important to realise what has actually caused offence) - you took issue with Stayawake on comments which she herself never uttered, DT is wrong too.

Unfortunately this whole misguided post has opened a can of worms because sadly DT is often ready to stir up contention on a variety of issues.

Watchman, I am glad you have held off from deleting Stayawake at this time - I know she is very hurt at present but I hope she will return here soon. I would also say that here is a clear issue requiring moderation. DT has asserted that other members of the db have complained to him about Stayawake, call me a "doubting Thomas" but I find that hard to believe. This matter should be investigated. This is not the WTS but we are I hope all members of the Christian congregation and real people (not cyber imaginings that DT would believe) and the principles of love, forgiveness and truth surely still apply.

EF

SWORDOFJAH

01-30-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote: Whether you realize it or not, you still worship your organization, because you refuse to see that Kabbalistic Freemasons are feeding you all that vomit you take in several times a week, and your Bible is missing ten percent of the text, and has been altered in another large percentage. They are steering their sheep to the slaughter, because they are right up there at the top of the pyramid.

SWORDOFJAH: Now my friends,doesn't this comment by a poster be a concern????? Consider it carefully. To say that what we received in the meetings is vomit is something that is not right at all.

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 03:35 PM

If you are asking me to share publicly with the board, certain personal messages that have been sent to me, that isn't going to happen EF. If you choose to doubt, or not believe me, then so be it!

I disagree with your view that voicing an opposite opinion of a matter is "stirring up contention". You can't demand that everyone always agree with your viewpoint EF. That is what the WT is doing that drove me here.

DT

Jeshurun

01-30-2008, 04:03 PM

If you are asking me to share publicly with the board, certain personal messages that have been sent to me, that isn't going to happen EF. If you choose to doubt, or not believe me, then so be it![/b]

Then why mention them at all, other than to stir up contention and give everyone the idea, including Stayawake, that people are upsets with her posts?

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 04:16 PM

<div class='quotemain'>If you are asking me to share publicly with the board, certain personal messages that have been sent to me, that isn't going to happen EF. If you choose to doubt, or not believe me, then so be it![/b]

Then why mention them at all, other than to stir up contention and give everyone the idea, including Stayawake, that people are upsets with her posts?
[/b][/quote]

You are right Jesh. I stand corrected. I probably should not have mentioned that at all. I was also wrong when I said I received "numerous" PM's. I have received a "few" though. I did not lie, but that was an exaggeration on my part. I do apologize. In the heat of the moment I just got carried away when I said "numerous". I mean just a few.

DT

Peter

01-30-2008, 05:35 PM

Jesh, I think you need to backtrack on this one.</span></span> </span>

"Whether you realize it or not, you still worship your organization, because you refuse to see that Kabbalistic Freemasons are feeding you all that vomit you take in several times a week, and your Bible is missing ten percent of the text, and has been altered in another large percentage. They are steering their sheep to the slaughter, because they are right up there at the top of the pyramid."

Peter

Peter

01-30-2008, 06:08 PM

I would though like you to explain this:

“Your Bible is missing ten percent of the text”

Jeshurun

01-30-2008, 06:37 PM

I would though like you to explain this:

"Your Bible is missing ten percent of the text"[/b]

Hello Peter

The subject was covered ad nauseum in the Two Bibles thread here:

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/inde...pic=933&hl= (http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=933&hl=)

I'm not saying that the Textus Recepticus is perfect, it has Trinitarian and purgatory bias, but the NWT is not based on the TR. Back in the 40's when the Witnesses were still using the King James Bible, Rutherford told them to take their markers and blot out huge portions of the Bible. Many of the scriptures relating to judgement, baptism, Jesus being the only Messiah, repentance, atonement, and the Deity of Jesus were taken out or altered. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is God but he has been given all authority on earth and in heaven until the end of his Millennial Rule. This does not even conflict with what the Watchtower teaches but it does conflict with what the Kabbalist Pharisees up in the Tower would allow their sheep to know because they have other plans that conflict with relinquishing power to Jesus, whom they hate.

Here are some comparison charts for you to look over:

http://www.seekgod.ca/chart1.htm

http://www.seekgod.ca/chart2.htm

http://www.seekgod.ca/chart3.htm

http://www.seekgod.ca/chart4.htm

http://www.seekgod.ca/chart5.htm

:Love:
Jesh

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 07:01 PM

Robert makes a compelling argument in the podcast which started this thread, that the New World Translation is a reliable version of the Holy Scriptures. Did you listen to it Jesh? At the very least, it places emphasis on Jehovah God's holy name, which I know all of us here highly esteem and worship and sanctify.

DT

DoubtingThomas

01-30-2008, 07:06 PM

I am shocked that Robert permitted these links to a web site propmoting a false doctrine like the trinity.

Jeshurun

01-30-2008, 07:33 PM

I am shocked that Robert permitted these links to a web site propmoting a false doctrine like the trinity.[/b]

Read between the lines, DT. Don't be blinded to other truths because of one falsehood.

Shibboleth

01-30-2008, 07:37 PM

This thread has turned insane and one of the reasons why I do not post here on this site as much.

Everytime I read something here I come back discouraged. I get more discouraged when accusations go against our brothers saying they are Kabbalistic Masons. What is wrong with you guys? Has Satan blinded you so much that now you turn against the brothers? reading drivel and garbage will only make you think in drivel and garbage. the only true word is THE BIBLE.

I am sorry but this site makes me very sick inside.