Help! Would You Have A Baby Now?

[patience]

Hello everyone

This might seem a strange thing to ask but before reading the Watchman site I wanted to have a baby this year - now worrying just what we might face and possibly how soon my I'm not so sure its such a good idea now even though I'd love a child I don't know if its fair to bring one into the world not knowing if I might be seperated from it etc.. I dont want to think i've been irresponsible/selfish.

On the other hand my husband is not getting any younger (he's 31) but I wanted us to be young parents and I've seen some sisters in our congregation put it off because they thought the end was so near and now they are old with no family.

What would you do if you were in my postion, would you think its better to take the risk or wait intil better times?

I'd love your thoughts

Patience

[Kenneth]

That's a hard question to answer as the choice must be yours. Many didn't have children years ago because they believed the end was so near, some I know went ahead and took no notice of others, had children and are now grandparents and of courses they have their children to look after them in their old age. However, if we reach old age in this system we will need to go back to the drawing board. It's not selfish to want children it's a natural desire Jehovah gave us. So do we bring children into the world now? Patients, I do have an opinion on this but I don't want to influence you in any way, as I said the choice must be yours and it a hard one to make. What lies ahead we don't know and how hard the tribulation will be for us remains to be seen. There are many with young children in the truth today and they seem to manage under the circumstances. But the longer the system goes on the more pressure parents will face. If you wish to be a parent you will need to weigh matters up carefully and prayerfully.



Kenneth

[Nambo]

Maybe a horrible though for you to consider patience, and like others have said, though it looks eminant, the Tribulations might be years away, but "woe to the pregnant Woman and those giving suck"

Its going to be difficult if we are offered the choice between worshipping the image of the Wild Beast or stepping into a possible fiery furnace, but imagine how difficult it will be if you had a baby that they threatened to use to make you choise.

Horrible I know and please accept my apologies, but only you can know if you are both spiritualy strong enough to know that Jehovah wouldnt let baby suffer and the resurrection.
Because a worst fate would await you all if it became to much for you.

That of course is a worst case senario, and its mainly the Holy ones themselves who are said to be tested to death.
The rest of us will probably just end up in those Haliburton Concentration camps for 3 1/2 years.

[Berean]

I suppose that, apart from the end being near, it also depends on your circumstances and your environment. If you feel you can raise a child into a happy, relatively carefree adult, it would make things easier.

Personally, I'm not even sure I would want to get married, let alone have any children. I always think of what kind of world my children would have to grow up in, regardless if the impending end of this system will impact their lives. For my situation, that means I probably wouldn't want them to go through the troubles I faced, but those troubles definitely shaped me in that choice, and this needn't apply with your situation.

What it comes down to is that you have to think of the well-being of the child. Are you confident that you'd be able to bring him up as a good Christian who will be as happy as possible in this world? In other words, don't just think of how happy you'll be with a child, also think of how happy the child will be. Of course I am by no means an expert, and each case is different, so you'll have to think hard, and above all, pray that Jehovah may give you wisdom in this.

[Jeshurun]

Hi Patience

While it is true that Jesus did say that the tribulation would be especially hard on those with babies, he also said that no one except the father knows the day and the hour. World events are certainly suggesting that the tribulation is imminent, but the same things were thought in 1914, 1933, 1941, and 1975.

I have 2 boys that are teenagers, and at this time I have to be concerned with the possibility of them being drafted, so the worrying never really ends until they are on their own and self-sufficient.

But the one thing I would seriously consider is this: we know that Jehovah's Kingdom takes over immediately after the tribulation, and we all have the hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth. So try not to let your ages bother you too much in regard to having children. If you are feeling pressure because of your biological clock, in Jehovah's new system there are no such concerns.

Even if we were to be killed during the GT, the Society's teaching that the resurrected will not marry or have children is not correct. It has to do with the new system being a re-creation, at which time the earth and mankind will be restored to their original condition, to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Jehovah's purpose in this regard will not change until the earth is indeed "filled". Maybe then we might find Jehovah has purposes for us beyond the realms of this one little planet.

Hope this helps some
Love

Lou

[Berean]

Even if we were to be killed during the GT, the Society's teaching that the resurrected will not marry or have children is not correct. It has to do with the new system being a re-creation, at which time the earth and mankind will be restored to their original condition, to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Jehovah's purpose in this regard will not change until the earth is indeed "filled". Maybe then we might find Jehovah has purposes for us beyond the realms of this one little planet.[/b]
I do wonder what Jesus meant with Matthew 22:30 then. Was he just talking about the heavenly resurrection there, which the Sadducees mustn't have had in mind, since the heavenly resurrection only came into the picture when Jesus died... correct?

[patience]

Thanks so much to all it really does help to know what others think. I know if i wait and remain faithful I will have all the time in the world to start a family. There is nothing more that I want to have a happy healthy family that won't have to go through anything terrible that we might face or even if they got older and deciding that they didn't love Jehovah. I had considered that i could be faced with the sort of ultimatum that makes me pick Jehovah or my child's life and the child wouldn't understand what was going on... I have faith in Jehovah but it makes me sick at the thought of something like that!

Thanks for your thought about the biological clock Jeshurun a good reminder that its all so easy to just live for this life because time is running away.

I will continue to pray about this.

Thanks again

Love Patience ( maybe patience is what I need!?)

[Jeshurun]

I do wonder what Jesus meant with Matthew 22:30 then. Was he just talking about the heavenly resurrection there, which the Sadducees mustn't have had in mind, since the heavenly resurrection only came into the picture when Jesus died... correct?[/b]

Hi Berean!

Jesus was speaking of the heavenly resurrection, as he clearly stated they have become immortal. This cannot apply to humans that are resurrected in the flesh and makes no sense whatsoever.

I believe I learned this from the Sept 28, 2003 mailbag, it's all there...I'm at work and can't verify the date right now, but if the date is wrong, just do a search on the e-Watchman site...

I have just checked the mailbag and this is the correct date...

Love
Lou

[Berean]

Well, this is the answer that was given, in March 2004...

'Many of Jehovah's Witnesses have come to the same conclusion as you have; namely, that the Watchtower's teaching on that aspect of the resurrection does not make any sense. Furthermore, the Watchtower's teaching is not scriptural either. Unfortunately, though, once questionable teachings are published in the Watchtower they have a way of ossifying into holy writ—no matter how unreasonable they may be. The only thing we can do is keep chiseling away at them until they begin to crumble.'

I would appreciate something more tangible than just that it doesn't make sense and isn't scriptural, like the reason why it is not scriptural?

[Jeshurun]

I would appreciate something more tangible than just that it doesn't make sense and isn't scriptural, like the reason why it is not scriptural?[/b]

The heavenly resurrection is a new creation, and not a re-creation. Jesus was answering the Pharisees question about a woman who had been married to 7 different brothers because they all died. I know its hard to understand in the context, but Jesus clearly said they are "as angels, neither do they die anymore". This cannot be referring to fleshly people.

The scriptures teach that we are acquitted from sin at death, and the marriage vow is "until death do us part". Adam and Eve became "one flesh", but their flesh is now dust.

We have to use the scriptures as a whole to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Please check the Sept. 28, 2003 mailbag

Lou

[Berean]

Thank you, at least now I see the reasoning behind it. At least in the Millennium, I can see that marriage wouldn't be out of the question, but I still have one issue. How are we to understand that God will create new heavens as well as a new earth? It would seem that this implies that both the future creation of heaven, and that of earth will be a new one, instead of one being a new creation and the other a re-creation. Should I start a new topic about this?

[Jeshurun]

Thank you, at least now I see the reasoning behind it. At least in the Millennium, I can see that marriage wouldn't be out of the question, but I still have one issue. How are we to understand that God will create new heavens as well as a new earth? It would seem that this implies that both the future creation of heaven, and that of earth will be a new one, instead of one being a new creation and the other a re-creation. Should I start a new topic about this?[/b]

Hi again Berean, and sorry Patience for hijacking your thread...

Just a couple more thoughts:

²⁸<span style="color:#000080"> Jesus said to them: "Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne,

YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
</span>
Re-creation here can also be translated as "regeneration", or "rebirth". To me that would be in the same context as "recycling". A new heavens and a new earth wouldn&#39;t mean that Jehovah is starting from scratch creating everything again. It is new in the context of being made over again in the aftermath of Satan&#39;s rulership, according to my understanding.

Also, it seems to me from the context that the Pharisees were questioning the heavenly resurrection in the first place, as it was a new concept to them. The way Jesus answered suggests to me that they were arguing from a point of trying to trick him, as they usually did. I personally don&#39;t think the Sadduccees were questioning the earthly resurrection.

On top of that, I think that this might be one of those things that doesn&#39;t require definitive scriptural proof from Jehovah&#39;s standpoint, because it&#39;s common sense that his purposes do not change until they are realized. It might just be another trap that the Society fell into on it&#39;s own. I also wouldn&#39;t worry about overpopulation, because the earth can hold many billions easily if more of it&#39;s land surface were used. In addition, not everyone who is resurrected will continue living forever.

I think we&#39;ve covered most of it here, at poor Patience&#39;s expense!

[juffowup]

Here is a unique thought, that I give credit to my wife for thinking of.

I used to want to wait for the new system for children. My wife informed me that unlike men, women do not have an unlimited supply of reproductive cells. Women are born with a set amount of eggs in their ovum, which once exhausted do not replenish, unlike men who continually reproduce sperm until the day we die.

Our fingernails grow, our hair grows, our skin heals, there are documented cases of centurians (people over 100 years old) forming new teeth to replace worn out ones. These are wonderful evidence of us being designed to live forever. But women don&#39;t get more eggs.

My wife reasoned that this might be by Jehovah&#39;s design, and that much like when our flesh will be renewed, or when our sin is removed and our body&#39;s ability to regenerate and repair itself is no longer compromised, we won&#39;t get our baby teeth back, Jehovah might not restore a woman&#39;s ability to have children if she has run out of eggs.

Now, if this is the case, Jehovah will somehow never the less satisfy everyone&#39;s desire in the New System. And we know Jehovah can restore a woman&#39;s ability to have children (See Sarah). But my wife was reluctant to count on that, and this cockeyed way of looking at this is why we have our kids. :-)

Also, as bad as things look, this system might limp on for another 100 years. I think it is in general unwise to make major life decisions on the basis of when Armageddon might come. Look at all the 1975 insanity. It is all fine and good to sell your house and buy and RV and spend 100% of your time preaching. If that is what you can do and be whole souled and devoted and joyful, then you should do it. It is quite another to do so because the end is coming, and when it doesn&#39;t get bitter about the fact that you have no house, no money, etc.

So if you want to wait to have kids because you truly do not want to raise a child in this wicked world, and worry about having that extra leverage to use against you during the GT, that is great, and as Paul and Jesus said, you&#39;ll be better off for it. However, you need to look deep down inside and think about how you will feel when you are past the ability to bear children and are growing old in this system with no family to count on for support. Because this might be the reality you face, and it can be just as much a test of your faith as a NWO soldier holding a gun to your child&#39;s head.