Channel Of Communication?

[scriptures]

I just want to us you, Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? "

I do not believe this, and it's bothering me, in my mind only the Bible is the authority....

Looking for answers,


scriptures....

[Olm]

The bible is the authority, and not WTS. However many people need guidence, and can not read the bible by themselves and understand for this reason or that reason, not all people but many. The WTS is good to lead people to understand the bible, but yes the bible is the authority, the way to come to God, to understand God and so forth, because it really is God's word. Why do you bring this topic up? Did someone tell you that the WTS was the authority or the channel of communication?

[tortas]

[quote]
I just want to us you, Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? "

I do not believe this, and it's bothering me, in my mind only the Bible is the authority....

Looking for answers,

i have come to believe the WTS is a very good source and possibly the chosen source, however, dont forget, this is Satans world and Satan has his teeth in everything.

It is our decision to believe every "inspired (satanic or godly) expression" that comes forth from the WTS



/quote]

[watchman]

Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? " [/b]

Yes, I do.

Watchman

[Berean]

I have a question: who came up with the expression 'channel of communication'? Russell? Rutherford? Someone else?

I'm asking because I haven't had any luck finding that expression in the Bible, so it must be a self-imposed title, but by whom?

[Jinnvisible]

It is a direct channel of communication between the shepherd and the sheep.

Not between Jehovah and the shepherd.

God gives men insight and they use it. Suggesting that this is a direct Channel of comunication to God is like suggesting that your Hanes Ford Escort car manual is a direct communication to ford. It isn't, it is direct communication to a bunch of guys who know about Ford's.

You could not have a direct channel to God that was uninspired.

[Jeshurun]

I hate to say it, but "channel of communication" is occult terminology, and my guess is that it's a Rutherford thing. (Should we be surprised?) That's why the only occurrences of the word "channel" in the Bible refer to water aqueducts and such.

Jesh

[panda]

I hate to say it, but "channel of communication" is occult terminology, and my guess is that it's a Rutherford thing. (Should we be surprised?) That's why the only occurrences of the word "channel" in the Bible refer to water aqueducts and such.

Jesh[/b]Christ is the only mediator between man and God. This channel of communication is demonic the shift has been from Christ to the GB. Satan is the god of confusion, and I find what the WTS teach in many aspects is confusing.

[TheCook]

I hate to say it, but "channel of communication" is occult terminology, and my guess is that it's a Rutherford thing. (Should we be surprised?) That's why the only occurrences of the word "channel" in the Bible refer to water aqueducts and such.

Jesh[/b]

It's also an expression used in telecommunication technology, about wires and such. As well as computer design: "The mechanomyogram as a channel of communication and control tool for people who are disabled". I even saw it in an article about inter-personal communication.

I'm just saying it's a commonly used expression that can also be used about Jehovah God's way of communicating.

[stayawake]

As was brought out on this very board thru the scriptures written by the prophets, that todays
WT leaders are blind and drunk,
Not only that but
they have slept with the enemy (UN)James 4:4 calls them adultresses
and then to think that our God Jehovah would still use them to commuicate His word to us, is absolutely insulting.

the scriptures tell us that
oh how He ( Jah ) hated our assemblies
Not only that but why has Jah with held the Truths that we have learned on this board, from
the GB if he was still useing them ?

Why are we updated as to what Jehovah wants his sheep to know without the GB ?
Why are we searching the scriptures when, they don't nor do they want us to search.?
Why have they placed themself as a GB when we have Christ as the Head of the Body.

This is something to seriously think about, to pray about.

love stayawake

[scriptures]

The bible is the authority, and not WTS. However many people need guidence, and can not read the bible by themselves and understand for this reason or that reason, not all people but many. The WTS is good to lead people to understand the bible, but yes the bible is the authority, the way to come to God, to understand God and so forth, because it really is God's word. Why do you bring this topic up? Did someone tell you that the WTS was the authority or the channel of communication?[/b]

But I must admit WTS is a good source of material... But please don't claim that they are the "channel of communication" ... It's really irritating.....

[Candace]

<div class='quotemain'>Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? " [/b]

Yes, I do.

Watchman
[/b][/quote]

Hi Robert,

Is there an essay, commentary, or podcast that you can point me to that explains how the WTS is the "channel of communication" today?

It seems like there is a difference of opinion on whether or not the WTS should be called this "channel of communication." I can see how the WTS can be given credit for spreading Bible knowledge in regard to Jehovah&#39;s name, the truth about the trinity doctrine, what happens when you die, what hope do we have for the future, etc. The WTS has also been instrumental in publishing literature and training ministers who have helped people in their community in regard to helping them turn their life around from a life of crime, addiction to drugs, saving marriages, helping parents with raising children, and providing scriptural guidance for every aspect of daily life (business, family, religion, etc.).

Is that how you classify the WTS as a "channel of communication" or do you have a different take on it?

[DoubtingThomas]

I THINK GOD&#39;S WORD THE BIBLE AND PRAYER IS THE ONLY DIRECT CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION TO JEHOVAH THAT HE HAS GIVEN MANKIND. HIS HOLY SPIRIT HELPS US IN THAT. THE WTS IS A VALUABLE TOOL WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN BY JEHOVAH TO HELP US UNDERSTAND HIS WORD AND HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT OPERATES.

DT

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Perhaps we all need to remind ourselves of the WT article issued a year ago? (DT I hope you dont mind me borrowing your post from the db back then)

The WTS is not a channel of communication with God, it is a channel to others in the spiritual realm, but not God.

Paragraph 11 is the one you want to re read.

EF


Here is a copy of the controversial WT study article which has many of us disturbed. I am sorry I was a little late in posting this weeks study article. My OCR scanning software is ancient, and I did not have time to proof-read the article, so I hope there are no scanning mistakes.

Paragraph 11 is the most disturbing to me: That the GB believe they are being communicated with by the dead. Wouldn&#39;t Jehovah use His Holy Spirit (or at least His Son) to communicate divine messages to his servants today? The fact that I am being fed spiritual food from those who believe they are being communicated with by the dead disturbs me greatly.

It seems that we are becoming more cult-like every day with study articles like this, and now magazines that are secret and not available for the public to see. It gives me the creeps.


"THE FIRST RESURRECTION" —NOW UNDER WAY!
"Those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."—1 THESSALONIANS 4:16.



1 The living are conscious that they will die." Ever since Adam sinned, that has been true. Throughout history, everyone born has known that he would eventually die, and many have wondered: &#39;What comes next? What is the condition of the dead?&#39; The Bible answers: "As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all."—Ecclesiastes 9:5.

2 Is there any hope, then, for those who have died? Yes. In fact, there must be if God&#39;s original purpose for mankind is to be fulfilled. Over the centuries, loyal servants of God have exercised faith in Jehovah&#39;s promise about a Seed who would destroy Satan and undo the harm he did. (Genesis 3:15) Most have died. If they are to see the fulfillment of that promise and of others that Jehovah has made, they need to be raised from the dead. (Hebrews 11:13) Is such a thing possible? Yes, it is. The apostle Paul said: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Paul once resurrected a young man named Eutychus, who had fallen from a third-floor window and was "picked up dead." This is the last of nine resurrections recorded in the Bible. —Acts 20:7-12.*

3 Those nine resurrections provide a basis for faith in Paul&#39;s statement. They strengthen our confidence in Jesus&#39; assurance: "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus&#39;] voice and come out." (John 5:28,29) What heartwarming words! And how comforting for the millions whose loved ones have fallen asleep in death!

4 The majority of those who are resurrected will come back to an earth made peaceful under God&#39;s Kingdom. (Psalm 37:10, 11, 29; Isaiah 11:6-9; 35:5, 6; 65:21-23) However, other resurrections were to take place before that happens. First, Jesus Christ had to be resurrected to present the value of his sacrifice to God in our behalf. Jesus died and was resurrected in 33 C.E.

5 Next, anointed members of "the Israel of God" must join the Lord Jesus Christ in heavenly glory, where they will "always be with the Lord." (Galatians 6:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:17) That event is called "the earlier resurrection" or "the first resurrection." (Philippians 3:10, 11; Revelation 20:6) When that resurrection is completed, the time will be at hand for millions to be resurrected back to the earth with the prospect of gaining everlasting life in Paradise. Hence, whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we have a keen interest in "the first resurrection." What kind of resurrection is it? When does it occur?


"With What Sort of Body?"

6 In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul raises a question about the first resurrection:
"How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?" He then answers the question: "What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies . . . but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him. The glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort."—l Corinthians 15:35-40.
7 Paul&#39;s words show that Christians anointed with holy spirit must die before they can receive their heavenly reward. At their death, their earthly body returns to the dust. (Genesis 3:19) At God&#39;s appointed time, they are resurrected with a body of a kind suitable for life in the heavens. (1 John 3:2) God also grants them immortality. That is not something they possess from birth, as if a so-called immortal soul were breathed into them. "This which is mortal must put on immortality" says Paul. Immortality is a gift from God, "put on" by those who share in the first resurrection.—1 Corinthians 15:50, 53; Genesis 2:7; 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2, 8.
8 Only 144,000 share in the first resurrection. Jehovah began selecting them at Pentecost 33 C.E., shortly after he resurrected Jesus. All of them have "[Jesus&#39;] name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads." (Revelation 14:1, 3) Hence, they are not selected from many different religions. All are Christians, and all proudly bear the name of the Father—Jehovah. When they are resurrected, they receive an assignment of work in the heaven. The prospect of serving God in such a direct iiay is simply thrilling to them.


Now Under Way?

9 When does the first resurrection occur? There is strong evidence that it is now under way. For example, compare two chapters of Revelation. First, look at Revelation chapter 12. There we read that the newly enthroned Jesus Christ, along with his holy angels, wages war against Satan and his demons. (Revelation 12:7-9) As this journal has often shown, that battle began in 1914.* Notice, though, that none of Christ&#39;s anointed followers are said to be with Jesus in that heavenly war. Now look at chapter 17 of Revelation. We read there that after the destruction of "Babylon the Great," the Lamb will conquer the nations. Then it adds: "Also, those called and chosen and faithful in him will do so." (Revelation 17:5, 14) "Called and chosen and faithful" ones must already have been resurrected if they are to be with Jesus for the final defeat of Satan&#39;s world. Reasonably, then, anointed ones who die before Armageddon are resurrected sometime between 1914 and Armageddon.
10 Can we say more precisely when the first resurrection begins? An interesting clue is found at rev. 7:9-15, where the apostle John describes his vision of a great crowd, which no man was able to number." The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144, 000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.

11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God&#39;s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935. Can we be more precise?

12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God&#39;s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ&#39;s presence began.
13 For example, Paul wrote: "We the living who survive to the presence of the Lord [not, to the end of his presence] shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel&#39;s voice and with God&#39;s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) Therefore, anointed Christians who died before Christ&#39;s presence were raised to heavenly life ahead of those who were still alive during Christ&#39;s presence. This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ&#39;s presence, and it continues "during his presence." (1 Corinthians 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time.


"A White Robe Was Given to Each of Them"

14 Consider, too, the evidence contained in Revelation chapter 6. There Jesus is seen riding forth as a conquering King. (Revelation 6:2) The nations are embroiled in warfare of epic proportions. (Revelation 6:4) There is widespread famine. (Revelation 6:5, 6) Deadly plagues ravage mankind. (Revelation 6:8) All these prophesied events clearly fit world conditions since 1914. But something else happens. Our attention is drawn to an altar of sacrifice. At its base are "the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have." (Revelation 6:9) Since "the soul [or, life] of the flesh is in the blood," what is really represented as being at the foot of the altar is the blood of faithful servants of Jesus who were slaughtered because of their bold and zealous witnessing.—Leviticus 17:11.

15 Like the blood of righteous Abel, the blood of these Christian martyrs is crying out for justice. (Genesis 4:10) "They cried with a loud voice, saying: &#39;Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those ho dwell on the earth?&#39; " What comes next? "A white robe was given to each of them; arid they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been."—Revelation 6:10, 11.

16 Were these white robes handed out to pools of blood lying at the base of an altar? Of course not! The robes were given to the individuals whose blood was shed, as it were, on the altar. They sacrificed their lives in Jesus&#39; name and were now resurrected as spirits. How do we know that? Earlier in the book of Revelation, we read: "He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life." Recall, too, that the 24 elders were "dressed in white outer garments, and upon their heads [were] golden crowns." (Revelation 3:5; 4:4) So after war, famine, and pestilence began to ravage the earth, members of the 144,000 who were dead, represented by the blood at the base of the altar, were raised to heavenly life and clothed in symbolic white robes.
17 Those newly resurrected ones must "rest." They must wait patiently for God&#39;s day of vengeance. Their "fellow slaves," anointed Christians still on earth, have yet to prove their integrity under trial. When the time for divine judgment arrives, the "rest" will be over. (Revelation 7:3) At that time, those resurrected ones will share with the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing destruction upon the wicked, including those who shed the blood of innocent Christians.—2 Thessalonians 1: 7-10.


What It Means for Us

18 God&#39;s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ&#39;s presence. The first to be resurrected are anointed Christians who died before Christ&#39;s presence began. As Christ&#39;s presence progresses, anointed Christians who faithfully finish their earthly course are changed "in the twinkling of an eye" into powerful spirit creatures. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Will all the anointed receive their heavenly reward before the war of Armageddon? We do not know. We do know, however, that in God&#39;s due time, all the 144,000 will be found standing on the heavenly Mount Zion.

19 We also know that the majority of the 144,000 are already united with Christ. Only a relatively few remain on earth. What a powerful indication that the time for the execution of God&#39;s judgment is rapidly approaching! Soon, Satan&#39;s entire world system will be destroyed. Satan himself will be abyssed. Then, the general resurrection can begin, and faithful humans can, on the basis of Jesus&#39; ransom sacrifice, be raised to perfection similar to that lost by Adam. Jehovah&#39;s prophecy recorded at Genesis 3:15 is being wonderfully fulfilled. What a grand privilege it is to be living in these times!



Can You Explain?
How do the following scriptures help us to discern the timing of "the first resurrection"?


• Revelation 12:7; 17:14
• Revelation 7:13, 14
• 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
• Revelation 6:2, 9-11[/b]

[Peter]

If there&#39;s a faithful slave on the earth when the master arrives then there must be a channel, personally I think we&#39;re splitting hairs.

[stayawake]

Hi family/
Just more thoughts

When Jesus left he gave the illistration of a king going on a journey (before he left he melted out telents to his slaves to keep what he had started going,on,inviting those to join the Bride.
When he returned he expected to see results.

The only channel here was the master King with his slaves
We are dealing with the HOUSEHOLD of GOD ,Jahs adopted sons ,the remaining or remnant of the 144,000 , the remaining Bride class , Christ true brothers.
Jesus said ,to the household of 144,000 to feed his domestics.The 144,000 and the Domestics are one and the same.
The body of Christ has many members, each member contributes some thing in order for the body to function. , They work together.
It is not a group of members Lording it over the rest of the body members.
The body only has one head, so it is to the head that one would take direction.
That is why the scriptures say there is only one mediator between God and man and that is JC.So if one wants to see a channel in this Drama , it would be Jesus Christ as the Head and the 144.000 body members.
The appointment of the FDS does not take place until Jesus comes to inspect Gods Temple. Then the faithful ones will be given all Christ belongings, which will be spiritual.

The appointment is asigning them to do the preaching of Jesus Messeanic Kingdom,
Fearlessly under a goverment NWO that will forbid Evangelizing..
Finally !
the GOOD NEWS about this kingdom being established in the heavens,
BUT in opposition to the counterfiet on earth We will support these true anointed ones. Matt 25:31-46

Keep in mind Paul makes mention that they ( JC brothers ) are living stones making up Jehovahs Temple.This is where Jahs spirit dwells. This anointing takes place at their sealing..Rev 7:3

The man of lawlessness was allowed to slip into this Temple,2Thess 2:10-12, (weeds)
so those who really didn&#39;t love the Truth would believe a Lie.

.In Rev 3:9 we find that during Christ inspection, Jesus addresses those who have said they were a (spiritual Jew, or one of JC brothers ) but were not ,
Jesus himself will pronounced them liars, in his inspection.

This is the way I see it ,so I only speak for myself
Love stayawake

[billy]

Big hug to you Stayawake

It&#39;s interesting what you said because the wto believes they have already been inspected by the Master around the 1914 doctrine - so they can basically say anything they want now and all the sheep are expected to believe every word that comes out of their mouths - they can twist and shape the prophecies to mean what ever they want just like all the other religions do

[dgibson]

Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? "

What a loaded question!

To the ones invited to be part of the heavenly family, it would seem so. To those of us other sheep, that see the discord among all of these enlightened ones reasonings, on the scriptures, we would have to wonder if the WTS fits this recognition 100%.

I think the scriptures are the words of Jehovah, and can be considered the absolute direct channel of communication between Jehovah and Mankind. That being said, I think the channel of communication today, is damaged beyond recognition in so many ways. I do believe the WTS does have the most reasonable interpretation of the scriptures, as can be allowed with satan still on the loose, trying to confuse the truth at all points.

[scriptures]

Maybe it&#39;s time to delete that term... Let&#39;s be honest.... nobody has the monopoly of truth....

[SlaveForJah]

Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? " </span>[/b]

"18 And Mel·chiz´e·dek king of Sa´lem brought out bread and wine, and he was priest of the Most High God. 19 Then he blessed him and said: "Blessed be A´bram of the Most High God,
Producer of heaven and earth;

20 And blessed be the Most High God,
Who has delivered your oppressors into your hand!"

At that A´bram gave him a tenth of everything." - Genesis 14:18-20




"1 For this Mel·chiz´e·dek, king of Sa´lem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him 2 and to whom Abraham apportioned a tenth from all things, is first of all, by translation, "King of Righteousness," and is then also king of Sa´lem, that is, "King of Peace." 3 In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor an end of life, but having been made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

4 BEHOLD, then, how great this man was to whom Abraham, the family head, gave a tenth out of the chief spoils. 5 True, the men from the sons of Le´vi who receive their priestly office have a commandment to collect tithes from the people according to the Law, that is, from their brothers, even if these have issued from the loins of Abraham; 6 but the man who did not trace his genealogy from them took tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises." - Hebrews 7:1-6



"38 John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." 39 But Jesus said: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me; 40 for he that is not against us is for us. 41 For whoever gives YOU a cup of water to drink on the ground that YOU belong to Christ, I truly tell YOU, he will by no means lose his reward. 42 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones that believe, it would be finer for him if a millstone such as is turned by an ass were put around his neck and he were actually pitched into the sea." - Mark 9:38-42




"1 Now in Caes·a·re´a there was a certain man named Cornelius, an army officer of the Italian band, as it was called, 2 a devout man and one fearing God together with all his household, and he made many gifts of mercy to the people and made supplication to God continually. 3 Just about the ninth hour of the day he saw plainly in a vision an angel of God come in to him and say to him: "Cornelius!"4 The man gazed at him and, becoming frightened, said: "What is it, Lord?" He said to him: "Your prayers and gifts of mercy have ascended as a remembrance before God." - Acts 10:1-4



"27 Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them named Ag´a·bus rose and proceeded to indicate through the spirit that a great famine was about to come upon the entire inhabited earth; which, for that matter, did take place in the time of Claudius." - Acts 11:27, 28



"3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." - 1Timothy 2:3-6



"12 "I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming." - John 16:12, 13


<span style="color:#000000">It would appear then, according to Scripture, that Jehovah uses whomever it is that pleases Him, and the crowning requirement looks to be a willingness to be used by Him. Melchizedek was not the one who received the promises, but rather it was Abraham that was in a covenanted relationship with Jehovah. Yet, Melchizedek, according to Paul was the greater, in that he received tithes from Abraham and therefore from Levi as well. So, Jehovah&#39;s validation of Melchizedek&#39;s Priesthood was not based on Melchizedek&#39;s being a "JW", so to speak.

Jesus said that the man who "was not from our group" was to be let alone, since he too was doing Jehovah&#39;s will for him. Cornelius was not a Jew, yet found favor in God&#39;s sight, and his prayers were favorably heard, owing to his God-fearing, devotion and mercy. Agabus was not a "Governing Body" member, yet his prophecy was spoken through the Spirit and it came to pass in truth. Job also comes to mind. How about Elihu?

What is the connector here? All men are cleansed through the blood of Jesus Christ. Melchizedek, Job, Cornelius, the man "not from our group" and Agabus all included. They were all used by Jehovah God based on His grace and the application to their credit of the value of Christ&#39;s Ransom. The channel? I believe it always has been and always will be The Holy Spirit. Seems pretty clear to me. I could be wrong...but, at least that&#39;s what the Scriptures testify to.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[Bertha]

<div class='quotemain'>Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? " </span>[/b]

"18 And Mel·chiz´e·dek king of Sa´lem brought out bread and wine, and he was priest of the Most High God. 19 Then he blessed him and said: "Blessed be A´bram of the Most High God,
Producer of heaven and earth;

20 And blessed be the Most High God,
Who has delivered your oppressors into your hand!"

At that A´bram gave him a tenth of everything." - Genesis 14:18-20




"1 For this Mel·chiz´e·dek, king of Sa´lem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him 2 and to whom Abraham apportioned a tenth from all things, is first of all, by translation, "King of Righteousness," and is then also king of Sa´lem, that is, "King of Peace." 3 In being fatherless, motherless, without genealogy, having neither a beginning of days nor an end of life, but having been made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

4 BEHOLD, then, how great this man was to whom Abraham, the family head, gave a tenth out of the chief spoils. 5 True, the men from the sons of Le´vi who receive their priestly office have a commandment to collect tithes from the people according to the Law, that is, from their brothers, even if these have issued from the loins of Abraham; 6 but the man who did not trace his genealogy from them took tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises." - Hebrews 7:1-6



"38 John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." 39 But Jesus said: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me; 40 for he that is not against us is for us. 41 For whoever gives YOU a cup of water to drink on the ground that YOU belong to Christ, I truly tell YOU, he will by no means lose his reward. 42 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones that believe, it would be finer for him if a millstone such as is turned by an ass were put around his neck and he were actually pitched into the sea." - Mark 9:38-42




"1 Now in Caes·a·re´a there was a certain man named Cornelius, an army officer of the Italian band, as it was called, 2 a devout man and one fearing God together with all his household, and he made many gifts of mercy to the people and made supplication to God continually. 3 Just about the ninth hour of the day he saw plainly in a vision an angel of God come in to him and say to him: "Cornelius!"4 The man gazed at him and, becoming frightened, said: "What is it, Lord?" He said to him: "Your prayers and gifts of mercy have ascended as a remembrance before God." - Acts 10:1-4



"27 Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them named Ag´a·bus rose and proceeded to indicate through the spirit that a great famine was about to come upon the entire inhabited earth; which, for that matter, did take place in the time of Claudius." - Acts 11:27, 28



"3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." - 1Timothy 2:3-6



"12 "I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming." - John 16:12, 13


<span style="color:#000000">It would appear then, according to Scripture, that Jehovah uses whomever it is that pleases Him, and the crowning requirement looks to be a willingness to be used by Him. Melchizedek was not the one who received the promises, but rather it was Abraham that was in a covenanted relationship with Jehovah. Yet, Melchizedek, according to Paul was the greater, in that he received tithes from Abraham and therefore from Levi as well. So, Jehovah&#39;s validation of Melchizedek&#39;s Priesthood was not based on Melchizedek&#39;s being a "JW", so to speak.

Jesus said that the man who "was not from our group" was to be let alone, since he too was doing Jehovah&#39;s will for him. Cornelius was not a Jew, yet found favor in God&#39;s sight, and his prayers were favorably heard, owing to his God-fearing, devotion and mercy. Agabus was not a "Governing Body" member, yet his prophecy was spoken through the Spirit and it came to pass in truth. Job also comes to mind. How about Elihu?

What is the connector here? All men are cleansed through the blood of Jesus Christ. Melchizedek, Job, Cornelius, the man "not from our group" and Agabus all included. They were all used by Jehovah God based on His grace and the application to their credit of the value of Christ&#39;s Ransom. The channel? I believe it always has been and always will be The Holy Spirit. Seems pretty clear to me. I could be wrong...but, at least that&#39;s what the Scriptures testify to.


Agape

SlaveForJah



[/b][/quote]

[Bertha]

<div class='quotemain'>Do you believe that the WTS is the " channel of communication today? " [/b]

Yes, I do.

Watchman
[/b][/quote]


Can you explain your answer please?

[watchman]

Can you explain your answer please?[/b]

Sure. I mean that I believe the Watchtower Society is Jehovah&#39;s channel, just as is commonly accepted by most of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses. Everything I have written on e-watchman is from the point of view that the Watchtower Society is Jehovah&#39;s organization, and as such, it has greater accountability before God.

Watchman

[Jinnvisible]

1 Timothy 6:3-4 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride, not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions

I don&#39;t force my view on anyone else. For me this is central to the problem. The apostles might not have torn their garments over it, I don&#39;t believe they would have put up with it though. It is blatantly deceptive.</span>

[panda]

Perhaps we all need to remind ourselves of the WT article issued a year ago? (DT I hope you dont mind me borrowing your post from the db back then)

The WTS is not a channel of communication with God, it is a channel to others in the spiritual realm, but not God.

Paragraph 11 is the one you want to re read.

EF

<div class='quotemain'>Here is a copy of the controversial WT study article which has many of us disturbed. I am sorry I was a little late in posting this weeks study article. My OCR scanning software is ancient, and I did not have time to proof-read the article, so I hope there are no scanning mistakes.

Paragraph 11 is the most disturbing to me: That the GB believe they are being communicated with by the dead. Wouldn&#39;t Jehovah use His Holy Spirit (or at least His Son) to communicate divine messages to his servants today? The fact that I am being fed spiritual food from those who believe they are being communicated with by the dead disturbs me greatly.

It seems that we are becoming more cult-like every day with study articles like this, and now magazines that are secret and not available for the public to see. It gives me the creeps.


"THE FIRST RESURRECTION" —NOW UNDER WAY!
"Those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."—1 THESSALONIANS 4:16.



1 The living are conscious that they will die." Ever since Adam sinned, that has been true. Throughout history, everyone born has known that he would eventually die, and many have wondered: &#39;What comes next? What is the condition of the dead?&#39; The Bible answers: "As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all."—Ecclesiastes 9:5.

2 Is there any hope, then, for those who have died? Yes. In fact, there must be if God&#39;s original purpose for mankind is to be fulfilled. Over the centuries, loyal servants of God have exercised faith in Jehovah&#39;s promise about a Seed who would destroy Satan and undo the harm he did. (Genesis 3:15) Most have died. If they are to see the fulfillment of that promise and of others that Jehovah has made, they need to be raised from the dead. (Hebrews 11:13) Is such a thing possible? Yes, it is. The apostle Paul said: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Paul once resurrected a young man named Eutychus, who had fallen from a third-floor window and was "picked up dead." This is the last of nine resurrections recorded in the Bible. —Acts 20:7-12.*

3 Those nine resurrections provide a basis for faith in Paul&#39;s statement. They strengthen our confidence in Jesus&#39; assurance: "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus&#39;] voice and come out." (John 5:28,29) What heartwarming words! And how comforting for the millions whose loved ones have fallen asleep in death!

4 The majority of those who are resurrected will come back to an earth made peaceful under God&#39;s Kingdom. (Psalm 37:10, 11, 29; Isaiah 11:6-9; 35:5, 6; 65:21-23) However, other resurrections were to take place before that happens. First, Jesus Christ had to be resurrected to present the value of his sacrifice to God in our behalf. Jesus died and was resurrected in 33 C.E.

5 Next, anointed members of "the Israel of God" must join the Lord Jesus Christ in heavenly glory, where they will "always be with the Lord." (Galatians 6:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:17) That event is called "the earlier resurrection" or "the first resurrection." (Philippians 3:10, 11; Revelation 20:6) When that resurrection is completed, the time will be at hand for millions to be resurrected back to the earth with the prospect of gaining everlasting life in Paradise. Hence, whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we have a keen interest in "the first resurrection." What kind of resurrection is it? When does it occur?


"With What Sort of Body?"

6 In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul raises a question about the first resurrection:
"How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?" He then answers the question: "What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies . . . but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him. The glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort."—l Corinthians 15:35-40.
7 Paul&#39;s words show that Christians anointed with holy spirit must die before they can receive their heavenly reward. At their death, their earthly body returns to the dust. (Genesis 3:19) At God&#39;s appointed time, they are resurrected with a body of a kind suitable for life in the heavens. (1 John 3:2) God also grants them immortality. That is not something they possess from birth, as if a so-called immortal soul were breathed into them. "This which is mortal must put on immortality" says Paul. Immortality is a gift from God, "put on" by those who share in the first resurrection.—1 Corinthians 15:50, 53; Genesis 2:7; 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2, 8.
8 Only 144,000 share in the first resurrection. Jehovah began selecting them at Pentecost 33 C.E., shortly after he resurrected Jesus. All of them have "[Jesus&#39;] name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads." (Revelation 14:1, 3) Hence, they are not selected from many different religions. All are Christians, and all proudly bear the name of the Father—Jehovah. When they are resurrected, they receive an assignment of work in the heaven. The prospect of serving God in such a direct iiay is simply thrilling to them.


Now Under Way?

9 When does the first resurrection occur? There is strong evidence that it is now under way. For example, compare two chapters of Revelation. First, look at Revelation chapter 12. There we read that the newly enthroned Jesus Christ, along with his holy angels, wages war against Satan and his demons. (Revelation 12:7-9) As this journal has often shown, that battle began in 1914.* Notice, though, that none of Christ&#39;s anointed followers are said to be with Jesus in that heavenly war. Now look at chapter 17 of Revelation. We read there that after the destruction of "Babylon the Great," the Lamb will conquer the nations. Then it adds: "Also, those called and chosen and faithful in him will do so." (Revelation 17:5, 14) "Called and chosen and faithful" ones must already have been resurrected if they are to be with Jesus for the final defeat of Satan&#39;s world. Reasonably, then, anointed ones who die before Armageddon are resurrected sometime between 1914 and Armageddon.
10 Can we say more precisely when the first resurrection begins? An interesting clue is found at rev. 7:9-15, where the apostle John describes his vision of a great crowd, which no man was able to number." The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144, 000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.

11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God&#39;s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935. Can we be more precise?

12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God&#39;s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ&#39;s presence began.
13 For example, Paul wrote: "We the living who survive to the presence of the Lord [not, to the end of his presence] shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel&#39;s voice and with God&#39;s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) Therefore, anointed Christians who died before Christ&#39;s presence were raised to heavenly life ahead of those who were still alive during Christ&#39;s presence. This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ&#39;s presence, and it continues "during his presence." (1 Corinthians 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time.


"A White Robe Was Given to Each of Them"

14 Consider, too, the evidence contained in Revelation chapter 6. There Jesus is seen riding forth as a conquering King. (Revelation 6:2) The nations are embroiled in warfare of epic proportions. (Revelation 6:4) There is widespread famine. (Revelation 6:5, 6) Deadly plagues ravage mankind. (Revelation 6:8) All these prophesied events clearly fit world conditions since 1914. But something else happens. Our attention is drawn to an altar of sacrifice. At its base are "the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have." (Revelation 6:9) Since "the soul [or, life] of the flesh is in the blood," what is really represented as being at the foot of the altar is the blood of faithful servants of Jesus who were slaughtered because of their bold and zealous witnessing.—Leviticus 17:11.

15 Like the blood of righteous Abel, the blood of these Christian martyrs is crying out for justice. (Genesis 4:10) "They cried with a loud voice, saying: &#39;Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those ho dwell on the earth?&#39; " What comes next? "A white robe was given to each of them; arid they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been."—Revelation 6:10, 11.

16 Were these white robes handed out to pools of blood lying at the base of an altar? Of course not! The robes were given to the individuals whose blood was shed, as it were, on the altar. They sacrificed their lives in Jesus&#39; name and were now resurrected as spirits. How do we know that? Earlier in the book of Revelation, we read: "He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life." Recall, too, that the 24 elders were "dressed in white outer garments, and upon their heads [were] golden crowns." (Revelation 3:5; 4:4) So after war, famine, and pestilence began to ravage the earth, members of the 144,000 who were dead, represented by the blood at the base of the altar, were raised to heavenly life and clothed in symbolic white robes.
17 Those newly resurrected ones must "rest." They must wait patiently for God&#39;s day of vengeance. Their "fellow slaves," anointed Christians still on earth, have yet to prove their integrity under trial. When the time for divine judgment arrives, the "rest" will be over. (Revelation 7:3) At that time, those resurrected ones will share with the Lord Jesus Christ in bringing destruction upon the wicked, including those who shed the blood of innocent Christians.—2 Thessalonians 1: 7-10.


What It Means for Us

18 God&#39;s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ&#39;s presence. The first to be resurrected are anointed Christians who died before Christ&#39;s presence began. As Christ&#39;s presence progresses, anointed Christians who faithfully finish their earthly course are changed "in the twinkling of an eye" into powerful spirit creatures. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Will all the anointed receive their heavenly reward before the war of Armageddon? We do not know. We do know, however, that in God&#39;s due time, all the 144,000 will be found standing on the heavenly Mount Zion.

19 We also know that the majority of the 144,000 are already united with Christ. Only a relatively few remain on earth. What a powerful indication that the time for the execution of God&#39;s judgment is rapidly approaching! Soon, Satan&#39;s entire world system will be destroyed. Satan himself will be abyssed. Then, the general resurrection can begin, and faithful humans can, on the basis of Jesus&#39; ransom sacrifice, be raised to perfection similar to that lost by Adam. Jehovah&#39;s prophecy recorded at Genesis 3:15 is being wonderfully fulfilled. What a grand privilege it is to be living in these times!



Can You Explain?
How do the following scriptures help us to discern the timing of "the first resurrection"?


• Revelation 12:7; 17:14
• Revelation 7:13, 14
• 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
• Revelation 6:2, 9-11[/b]
[/b][/quote]thanks for that, I do remember the article, but can&#39;t find the date anywhere here, what month was it?

[SlaveForJah]

"All the answers are within those pages".</span>[/b]

Just curious, but which end of the conversation were you? The blue pill or the red pill?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[Candace]

<div class='quotemain'>Can you explain your answer please?[/b]

Sure. I mean that I believe the Watchtower Society is Jehovah&#39;s channel, just as is commonly accepted by most of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses. Everything I have written on e-watchman is from the point of view that the Watchtower Society is Jehovah&#39;s organization, and as such, it has greater accountability before God.

Watchman
[/b][/quote]

Thanks for that clarification Robert. Seeing that we are all from different parts of the world, and for some English may not be their mother tongue, it&#39;s good to understand what you meant by channel.

While some people may use channel or organization interchangably, others may not. I think most of us here would agree that the organization presently known as Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses is the group of people who the scriptures refer to as "my people" in regard to being the ones who have greater accountability before God. (Isaiah chapter 29)

[dgibson]

So, as I understand it, the Watchtower Society, is nothing more than Jehovahs modern day collection of pick-axes, shovels, and brooms, that are being used to clarify his bibical wisdom to the earths masses of people. All the while collecting together within one fortress, his potenial spiritual sons.

It was built and dedicated to him by mankind, and his blessing has been limited upon it, as a distributing source of comfort for those who have been wandering clueless, as to the real meaning of life, along with the heavens above.

It has been used to clean up all the old false teachings and reproaches brought on Jehovahs word the bible, and his Good Name by individuals, governments, and christendom.

Meanwhile, it has been under constant influence from satan, to appear to be just as the religions of old, never truly a direct channel from Jehovah God.

It has even unknowningly, allowed many mistakes to occur in predictions of bible prophesy, poor biblical interpretations for behaviors in front of governments, which resulted in people losing their lives early, causing family suffering. It still continues to mis-apply many scriptures, in benefit of support for itself, as an exculsive God given authority over peoples behavior today.

Though the lines of communication are full of satans static, it is still the only true source of Jehovahs wisdom for the masses of people in need of real help. If they can only get past the past, and tip toe through a minefield of hoop-la developed by the leaders of the WTBTS, used for securing their ruling authority, based on a false start of Christ rule, in the years after 1914.

For those who need to know what the bible is all about. There is no better place to go for true free help at this time in mankinds history, except throught the WTBTS.

Then once you have caught sight of the flaws, then this site here (E-Watchman) is the next program of choice.

Provided you haven&#39;t blown yourself up in that minefield? LOL :8: Forward you witnesses, blah blah blah blah

[billy]

"seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may</span> be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. "

<span style="color:#ff00ff">quote from paragraph 11 of the wt article above

using the word "may" isnt very reassuring - wouldnt the 24 elders be more clear it was them the wts is communicating with?

the last days are compared to the days of Lot - there was no doubt the messengers sent to warn Lot were communicating with him - they were angels - the directions they gave Lot to get out of Sodam was very clear

[Candace]

For those who need to know what the bible is all about. There is no better place to go for true free help at this time in mankinds history, except throught the WTBTS.

Then once you have caught sight of the flaws, then this site here (E-Watchman) is the next program of choice.

Provided you haven&#39;t blown yourself up in that minefield? LOL :8: Forward you witnesses, blah blah blah blah[/b]

Is this part of some 12 step program? Are we gonna have to hold hands and start saying the Serenity Prayer?

Serenity Now! LOL

[Berean]

the Watchtower Society is Jehovah&#39;s organization[/b]
I have understood that the Watchtower Society is not actually Jehovah&#39;s organization, but rather the Earthly part of it. At least, that&#39;s how I&#39;ve heard it described from the podium. At other times though, the two are equalled, which makes everything terribly confusing. What is the organization? Is it, as our resident parrot says, just a collection of shovels and pickaxes and such? Is it the entire structure used by Jehovah both in the heavens and on earth? Is it just the people who are baptized Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses? Is it just the governing body? Is it the legal organizations used by the Society?

A little more clarity would be nice sometimes, since I so often hear the word &#39;organization&#39;, yet it&#39;s never clear what exactly is meant by it.

[dgibson]

"A little more clarity would be nice sometimes, since I so often hear the word &#39;organization&#39;, yet it&#39;s never clear what exactly is meant by it. "

Well first, inorder to accomplish the building of a, let&#39;s say, skyscraper, you must first be organized about it. You don&#39;t start pouring the foundation, before developing the blueprints of what actually your going to build. So, the blueprints are none other than the scriptures them selves showing the early christian congregations, through eyewitness. The foundation is the example Christ set through his sacrafice. The building itself, is the collective people, following as closely as possible, the moral values established by all bibical examples that displays Jehovahs true feelings of our actions as they relate to todays situation.

The Organization of Jehovahs Witnesses, is and always has been, an organization providing free biblical knowledge, and wisdom, through the publications it has printed, in the hopes they would provide relief to the spiritually sick ones, who cry out from inside themselves, that there seems to be no God to save them from their plight.

Now though the organization is becoming a rule setter for its followers, more than a spiritiual instructor.

[scriptures]

We all have communication from God, prayer and Bible reading........WTS is a good source of research material.... But to claim somekind of special appointment from God, that&#39;s cultist......That kept me away......

[TheCook]

Is this part of some 12 step program? Are we gonna have to hold hands and start saying the Serenity Prayer?

Serenity Now! LOL[/b]

In the words of the wise (yet just recently released from a mental institution) Lloyd Brown: Serenity now... insanity later! http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/Smilie%20Clown.gif

[Jinnvisible]

<div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Times New Roman">RED :38786-6: [/b]

[Jinnvisible]

<div class='quotemain'>[b]"seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group [u]That is very interesting, thanks billy.
</span>

[Steadfast]

Dear Friends,

Since none of the 144,000 have been resurrected to heaven yet, the only channel that would be sending messages would be demons. As I recall, both Russell and Rutherford claimed to channel information from &#39;angels.&#39; lol

Love,

Steadfast

[Deborah]

I have heard about Shirley McLain channeling. Also, channeling is involved with astro-projection. Channeling can also be used with automatic writing and using the ouija board.

Personally, I&#39;ll use prayer as my personal form of communication to Jehovah.

Love, Deborah

[James]

Dear Friends,

Since none of the 144,000 have been resurrected to heaven yet, the only channel that would be sending messages would be demons. As I recall, both Russell and Rutherford claimed to channel information from &#39;angels.&#39; lol

Love,

Steadfast[/b]

Hi Steadfast,

Good point about the 144,000, but I have to wonder if the demons are the only spirits that can influence mankind today. I am reminded of stories from the yearbooks and awake/wt magazines how angels must have &#39;led&#39; us a household because we showed up at the time of need. After the householder had prayed for Gods help.

So, I ask, are not the angels able to help us today?
We keep pointing out that the Satan and the demons are responsible for much of the wickedness in the world and how they &#39;attack&#39; those who try to serve Jehovah, yet it is not as clear as to the angels role.
Is it just a defensive/protective duty?
Are they able to influence us for good, as the demons try to influence us to to do bad?

Any thoughts, anyone?

agape,
James

[Deborah]

My guess is it is the holy spirit that "influences" us to do good. That would be directly from Jehovah.

Love, Deborah

[scriptures]

This " channel of communication" doctrine is intended to scare us not to leave the " organization" instead many are leaving the " organization" because of this....

[Steadfast]

Dear Friends,

A search on the internet will lead a person to the &#39;information&#39; that was channeled by Russell and Rutherford. It has proven to be false, which makes them both false prophets.

Love,

Steadfast

[dgibson]

Many things have been proven false, yet many of the clarifying truths still remain.

Many of the discoveries showing false doctrines, and teachings of other religions, came through this organization, but this religion, now finds itself in the same awkward position that satan has pushed all the others into.

Do they admit that they are wrong on issues used, as a foundation of their mental brainwashing power over the people, and risk loosing their finacial base income? Or, do they continue slowly relaxing their powerful micro managing technics, while back peddling a little at a time, while trying to allow time to convince the masses, that it is just new light, hoping that Jehovah recues them in time before all truthfulness of their wrongs committed against Jehovah God, and the Families that sacraficed for their unfriendly crooked reasonings on bible prophesy, has to be exposed before them.

[Sketch]

This " channel of communication" doctrine is intended to scare us not to leave the " organization" instead many are leaving the " organization" because of this.... [/b]


Never take sides against the family... ever.

http://thechaly.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/marlon_brando.jpg

[TheCook]

Oh noes, it seems some methodist church beat the WTBTS to the punch! Talk about channel of communication...

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2377/h350016wc6.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h350016wc6.jpg)

[renewed]

10 Can we say more precisely when the first resurrection begins? An interesting clue is found at rev. 7:9-15, where the apostle John describes his vision of a great crowd, which no man was able to number." The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144, 000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.

11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God&#39;s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935. Can we be more precise?

(Rev. 7:13) And in response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

All the scripture said was that one of the 24 elders communicated to John during his vision of the Lord&#39;s Day something about what those who were of this great crowd came from and who they were. "These who are dressed in white robes, who are they...." The elder said (whom John called my lord), "...they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The elder also said where they came from, "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation....". Can you be apart of the great crowd before you come out of the great tribulation, really?. It is not even clear why one of the 24 elders is used to talk to another of the so called 24 elder group such as John would have to be. Is John also here symbolizing himself in his own vision of symbols by representing the anointed remnant not yet killed at the time the elder tells John who the Great Crowd is? You would have to think so if you were using this as an example of the Anointed speaking to the Remnant, dispensing truth during the Lord&#39;s Day.

10....The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144, 000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.
11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

[panda]

someone pointed this out to me from the revelation book page 64-65 para 19.

Someone suggested that the WTS was asking us to worship the anointed or GB


Says....From 1919 onward the anointed remnant, following Jesus&#39; example, launched into a vigorous campaign of declaring abroad the good news of the Kingdom.(Matthew 4:17; Romans 10:18) As a result, some of the modern synagogue of Satan, Christendom, came to the anointed remnant, repented and &#39;bowed down,&#39; acknowledging the slave&#39;s authority. They to came to serve Jehovah in union with the older ones of the John class. This continued until the full number of Jesus&#39; anointed brothers was gathered. Following this, " a great crowd...out of all nations" has come to "bow down" to the anointed slave.(Revelation 7:3,4,9) Together, the slave and this great crowd serve as the one flock of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses.

To bow down, demonstration of respect, they believed that they were the Channel God was using. I don&#39;t think they are implying to worship, in this respect. Many of Gods people bow down to kings, Daniel did and others but they were not worshiping they were acknowledging their authority or respected their position. Was common in those days.

But I do understand what you mean, I can&#39;t see why they would use the term bow down, none of the scriptures mention that people would bow down to the anointed remnant. I can&#39;t see any scripture that goes with this thought, or any before or after this paragraph. There is no scriptual support for this.

[shikinah]

This is a very strange quote,
" a great crowd...out of all nations" has come to "bow down" to the anointed slave"
Is there any indication in the scriptures that we should bow down to them?
And as for channelling, this is very confusing as some old watchtowers say the annointed get their information from angels while others say the holy spirit. And im sure i heard that Charles Taze Russell directed from heaven at one time. Its all confusing.

Elizabeth

[Utuna]

"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Rogue]

This is a very strange quote,
" a great crowd...out of all nations" has come to "bow down" to the anointed slave"
Is there any indication in the scriptures that we should bow down to them?
And as for channelling, this is very confusing as some old watchtowers say the annointed get their information from angels while others say the holy spirit. And im sure i heard that Charles Taze Russell directed from heaven at one time. Its all confusing.

Elizabeth[/b]


Yup.. in The Finished Mistery it is said that, although Russell had died, he still led the organisation... I think it somewhat resembles spiritism to say that dead people communicate with us, not to mention unbiblical! The bible doesn&#39;t say that ressurected annointed communicate with the remnant of the annointed on earth, it&#39;s yet another spin the WT gives to scriptures. In revelations, John has been given a glimps of heaven, when he sees the 24 elders and the angels and so on, it is necessary for him to see this, because he needs to write it down.... just like some other visions take the person receiving the vision into heaven during that vision, like Ezekiel for instance... I think sometimes the WT gives every word and every person in the Bible a prophetic meaning... it sometimes seems as if they have &#39;classes&#39; for everything and everybody.. the Jefta-class, the 10 virgins-class, the John-class, the Esther-class, it goes on and on... after every person or happening we can add the word &#39;class&#39; and say it symbolises the annointed today.... does John realy symbolise the annointed remnant on earth, who received the understanding of the Great Crowd in 1935 from the annointed in heaven?? I don&#39;t think that is what that scripture says at all, John was given a glimps of the happenings in heaven, so he could write it down, it doesn&#39;t say that he symbolises someone! I think that the &#39;new light&#39; in 1935 was just a matter of a biblical truth that they had overlooked and revised, about the great crowd... I don&#39;t even think that it is true that before 1935 EVERY christian at the time was an annointed, just because they didn&#39;t understand about the great crowd back then, doesn&#39;t mean that there was no-one with an earthly hope! They spin it as if it was ment to be that in 1935 they understood about the great crowd, as if the 24 elders in heaven gave them that insight, but is just covers up the &#39;old light&#39; they had before 1935, like all &#39;old light&#39; is exused with some sort of divine reason!

Anyway, I think it is a bit strange to say that the ressurected annointed communicate with the ones on earth, nowhere in the bible this is said, and it is weird to say the least, there is no mention anywhere in the Bible of decieced people talking to alive people from heaven is there? Except jesus of course, but that makes sense... and I think it is also very strange to say that we bow down to the slave... it just goes to show how they put themselves on a pedestal, as if THEY need to be honored for the libertation of the other sheep from false religion, as if we need to glorify THEM for the good news that Jehovah has given to all of us?? Even if bowing down doens&#39;t mean worship, it still means glorifying... even angels said not to bow down for them, not even to honor or glorify them! How unhumble the Slave realy is!

[uglyandthin]

This is a very strange quote,
" a great crowd...out of all nations" has come to "bow down" to the anointed slave"
Is there any indication in the scriptures that we should bow down to them?
And as for channelling, this is very confusing as some old watchtowers say the annointed get their information from angels while others say the holy spirit. And im sure i heard that Charles Taze Russell directed from heaven at one time. Its all confusing.

Elizabeth[/b]


Hi Elizabeth:

The only scripture that I can think of off hand is Revelation 3:7-11 where Jesus councils the Angel (or messenger) of the Philadelphia congregation that he will make those from the Synagogue of Satan (which I think fits this current group very well) come and bow down and do obeisance before the Philadelphia Messenger. You can "say" you are a spiritual Jew and not be one very easily. I do not doubt that the current GB and the GB from the time of the early U.N. fornication includes some or all that fall into this category. I would doubt all, but it is possible. They did invite Satan right into the Temple and are therefore a Synagogue of Satan, that fits them quite well. Also, they have thier Father&#39;s disposition in regards to dealing with the Prophets sent to them (they kill them all eventually). This bowing down to me is a recognition that Jesus is recognizing someone (more likely a group of Christlike ones) as being approved by Jesus (the Philadelphia messenger seems to be wearing the crown when Jesus comes as he councils Philadelphia not to let his crown be stolen). I think this is a near future event and I can&#39;t wait to see it play out. What we see before us is a wicked group masquerading as the "Israel of God" when they are not even blood (spiritually).

²⁰ "‘Nevertheless, I do hold [this] against you, that you tolerate that woman Jez´e·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols. ²¹ And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her fornication. ²² Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. ²³ And her children I will kill with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am he who searches the kidneys and hearts, and I will give to YOU individually according to YOUR deeds.

The GB has no doubt had this Jezebel like attitude for decades. They have been encouraging her children to idolize personalities and groups (GB, Overseers, etc.) for years and they certainly encouraged them to commit fornication when they had us all peddling thier propaganda about the U.N. before we even knew it. We were unwitting accomplices in this crime of adultery and fornication fostered by these Jezebel like individuals in positions of power within the Watchtower. Many have been made sick and have died spiritually due to this horrible episode in the History of God&#39;s People. I think though that the rectification is here very soon.

I agree at one time they were the mouthpiece, but I seriously doubt that any more. You cannot have an unrepentant group representing the Most High and his Son. They may claim to, but I think it would be a false claim.

uglyandthin

[shikinah]

Thank you Rogue & Ugly n Thin,
from what i can see it doesnt look like the watchtower has seen it self in the correct light. I suppose its part of prophesy, the same way christendom would never see themselves as babylon the great. It sometimes makes me wonder, are we suppose to see what we do, or remain as those within the organisation oblivious to such things.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Jinnvisible]

Yup.. in The Finished Mistery it is said that, although Russell had died, he still led the organisation... I think it somewhat resembles spiritism[/b]

That is interesting, especially in regard to that particular publication.

The Finished Mystery was a very controversial end volume of Russell&#39;s studies in the scriptures, of which there were six volumes I believe. It was hashed up from notes under Rutherford and was rather controversial.

That particular comment may have been included to attempt to get bible students to accept the volume (7). As if Russell approved from beyond the grave. Yet if that was the case and they were prepared to go to those lengths to get it accepted, it is really even more of a concern regarding the thrust and content of the volume 7.

Of bro <strike>Rutherfords</strike> Russells study in the scriptures

[shikinah]

Wernt they suppose to have an occultist translate the bible at one time? i think the name was Barber? i dont know if theres any truth in this. But from what i can see, the man of lawlessness has been at work from the very start. The more i read and hear the more obvious it becomes.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[The Bible Student]

No, the man of lawlessness is like Judas.....he will be revesled soon, but Paul says that the thing acting as a restraint must be removed first...so what is the thing acting as a restraint in him being revealed? but when the tie omes, you know what they should do? Smoke it

[The Bible Student]

<div class='quotemain'>This " channel of communication" doctrine is intended to scare us not to leave the " organization" instead many are leaving the " organization" because of this.... [/b]


Never take sides against the family... ever.

http://thechaly.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/marlon_brando.jpg
[/b][/quote]


Too true....Now this question is for 1000,000,000 dollars, can anyone tell me, fingers on the buzzers and no confering, can anyone tell me....if Jehovahs law is based on love, healing and mercy and we are not seeing it, instead we see the law of satan which is based upon divide and....complete the sentence...

[Rogue]

<div class='quotemain'>Yup.. in The Finished Mistery it is said that, although Russell had died, he still led the organisation... I think it somewhat resembles spiritism[/b]

That is interesting, especially in regard to that particular publication.

The Finished Mystery was a very controversial end volume of Russell&#39;s studies in the scriptures, of which there were six volumes I believe. It was hashed up from notes under Rutherford and was rather controversial.

That particular comment may have been included to attempt to get bible students to accept the volume (7). As if Russell approved from beyond the grave. Yet if that was the case and they were prepared to go to those lengths to get it accepted, it is really even more of a concern regarding the thrust and content of the volume 7.

Of bro <strike>Rutherfords</strike> Russells study in the scriptures

[/b][/quote]

Yeah The Finished Mistery is one piece of work, for sure!! I did some research on the CD-rom about this book, and the comical part is that in some publications it is said that the Finished Mistery was written by annointed who were on the verge of apostasy, who tried to form a sect, and that it had nothing to do with the Wachtower and Tract Society, they said it was published by the People&#39;s Pulpet Society (?) or something like that. But in more recent publications, the Finished Mistery is said to be a powerfull weapon against falls religion and the most used book in the ministry around 1918/1919, and they even named in in combination with the proof that the Two Witnisses were at work... I was so amazed at how they can contradict themselves and nobody notices...

Anyway, the Finished Mistery is a very interesting piece of work, it was finished after Russell died, and Jinn, u could be right that they mentioned Russell still leading the work to get them to accept the things Rutherford said and did...

[The Bible Student]

My very learned friend, there is just one snag, or two, or three..maybe even more..if these were men indeed the two witnesses of Jehovah....

(1) when did the wild beast or UN kill them?

(2) Has anyone seen their bodies in the open places on view after this killing?

(3) When they came back, all were supposed to fall faint out of fear before their being taken up on a cloud to Jehovah, did anyone see this?

(4) The 7th trumpet shoudve blew, christ shouldve become king...ARMAGEDDON....WHAT HAPPEND TO ARMAGEDDON? IF ARMAGEDON CAME IN 1918, THEN WHY ARE WE ALL STILL HERE.......

[panda]

No, the man of lawlessness is like Judas.....he will be revealed soon, but Paul says that the thing acting as a restraint must be removed first...so what is the thing acting as a restraint in him being revealed? but when the tie omes, you know what they should do? Smoke it[/b]The WT says the thing acting as a restraint is the apostles of 1st Century when they died of Satan got in and the Catholic church was born from the apostates that were in the congregations of 1st Century, so when the apostles died of they went berserk and bingo we have the Roman Catholic church.

so the thing being revealed is the apostate RCC and the Reformation of all the other demon inspired religions coming from it.

I have read and heard that some Jw believe that Christ was the founder of Christendom, I guess thats where they can intertwine the belief that Ezekiel 34 is applying to Christendom and not to them (just one of some scriptures they misinterpret)

So the restraint removed the man of lawlessness the wts says is Christendom but don&#39;t we know that it is within gods house. Ez 13:9.

please correct me if wrong.

[shikinah]

There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth

[Rogue]

There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth[/b]

Ow yeah that&#39;s a comical one too.. that house, beth-sarim, the house of princes was it? Rutherford&#39;s little palace... it makes u wonder why the witnisses back then swallowed it like sweet cake, the nonsense that Rutherford was telling!

[shikinah]

They still swallow it today, i think there was another house also Ben shaun or something like that. But i think the majority dont know, and when they do, there afraid of what else they&#39;ll dig up. So how do they get their bible interpretation today and spiritual guidance, is it by holy spirit or angels? Im still not sure if anyone really knows.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth[/b]

Ow yeah that&#39;s a comical one too.. that house, beth-sarim, the house of princes was it? Rutherford&#39;s little palace... it makes u wonder why the witnisses back then swallowed it like sweet cake, the nonsense that Rutherford was telling!
[/b][/quote]

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/bethshan.gif

NOW THEREFORE this trust is created and said trustee shall hold the title to said property in trust for the use and benefit of the following named persons, whose names appear in the Bible at the book of Hebrews, chapter eleven, verses one to forty, to wit: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Sampson, Jephthae, David, Samuel,

Until such time as the aforementioned persons return and identify themselves to the legal representatives of the said WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY and the consent of said Society take possession and control of said premises, the President of the WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY shall have the right and be duty bound to direct the management and use of said premises hereby conveyed and to determine who shall be in possession and have the active management thereof.

HOW CAN THIS BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.....





Beth-Shan in 1945, shortly after being sold by the Watchtower Society.
(Black and white photo courtesy of Edmond C. Gruss - color enhanced on computer) This is the other one called Beth-shan or Beth - Shean.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/bethshan.html

[shikinah]

LOOK AT THIS SECTION WHICH IS WRITTEN ABOUT THE OWNERS OF THE HOUSE ABRAHAM ETC

"The property and residence were deeded to these Old Testament individuals. None of the individuals named in the deed as rightful owners of the place (such as Abraham) showed up at Beth-Sarim to claim it, though the Society in print said numerous times that they could be expected to return "any day now." The Society sold the property and residence in 1947. [1] One individual at least claimed to be David of the Old Testament"

SO THEY WERE EXPECTING AN IMMEDIATE RESURRECTION OF THESE HOLY MEN AT THAT TIME, NO WAITING FOR THE EARTH TO EVEN RESEMBLE A PARADISE..AND WHO SAID THIS HOUSE WOULD EVEN BE STANDING AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDON. THESE ARE SOME SERIOUSLY STRANGE BELEIFS.

Elizabeth

[Rogue]

*nods*

[shikinah]

This link also speaks of Rutherford and the channeling of Angels to the annointed.

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/guided.html


Elizabeth

[EmmaKay]

Wernt they suppose to have an occultist translate the bible at one time? i think the name was Barber? i dont know if theres any truth in this. But from what i can see, the man of lawlessness has been at work from the very start. The more i read and hear the more obvious it becomes.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]

Hi Elizabeth,

I believe it was Johannes Greber. He was the one they used to translate John 1:1, Matthew 27:51-53 and 1 John 4:1-3....although I don&#39;t know if they quoted him word for word in his translations, I think they only used certain words as they seen fit out of his translations, they may have only sampled his work. There may be more but these are the ones I know for sure.

-Emma

[misfit]

This link also speaks of Rutherford and the channeling of Angels to the annointed.

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/guided.html (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/guided.html)


Elizabeth[/b]

That was an interesting link to read, I have quoted part of it for those who didn&#39;t go to read it, as I think it begs a very serious question.... Was Rutherford actually a spirit medium? The kind the WTS denounce as evil today??

Angelic revelations

The Society in their recent history book, Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses--Proclaimers of God&#39;s Kingdom said:

<blockquote>Those who make up the one true Christian organization today do not have angelic revelations or divine inspiration. [49]

</blockquote> What they do not mention at all in this book reviewing their history is that Rutherford did claim to receive angelic revelations and thus a form of "divine inspiration". These angelic revelations were published in the Society&#39;s literature, particularly The Watchtower magazine:

<blockquote>Without a doubt the Lord uses his angels to cause the truth to be published in The Watchtower... Certainly God guides his covenant people by using the holy angels to convey his message to them. [50]

</blockquote>

Angelic mind control

How did God by angels transmit the interpretations of Scripture and prophecy to the remnant and specifically to Rutherford? He said that he did not know exactly how the angels transmitted the information to him. He said that he did not visually see these angels because they were "invisible to human eyes". [51] Nor was the information given in an audible voice:

<blockquote>These angels doubtless perform in connection with and toward the people of God many things that they cannot see with their natural eyes or hear with their natural ears. [52]

</blockquote> Rutherford said that these angels transmitted information inaudibly as thoughts into the remnant&#39;s minds. Rutherford said:

<blockquote>... the remnant are instructed by the angels of the Lord. The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones. [53]

Surely the holy angels of the Jehovah God, who are under the command of Christ Jesus and accompany him at his temple as his deputies, are clothed with power to put questions in the minds of those on earth who are devoted to God. It is not necessary for us to know just how this is done, but there can be no doubt about the power of the deputies of the Lord. [54]

</blockquote> Rutherford believed that the Holy Spirit was the force that, in the early church, God used to enlighten Christians. He believed that the Holy Spirit was replaced by angels in 1918 and these took over controlling the minds of the remnant:

<blockquote>... the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of "the servant", acting by and through his holy angels, has directed and is directing that work. It was the holy spirit that operated upon the minds of men in the early church to take certain action; but now the Lord Jesus himself has returned, is in his temple, and, acting by and through his holy angels, puts into the mind and heart of the remnant class to take positive action and to do a certain work... [55]

</blockquote>

Angelic prophecies

God also revealed to Rutherford (through angels) what was to happen or come to pass in the future:

<blockquote>The temple in heaven is open, and those who have been so marvelously favored by being brought into the temple now receive a vision of the prophecies that have come to pass. Jehovah graciously permits those in the temple to see other things that shall shortly come to pass. [56]

God reveals to his people the information of things that must shortly come to pass.... [57]

</blockquote> Rutherford believed that Jehovah God would not even start the battle of Armageddon until He first sent angels to inform the remnant that it was about to start, thus giving them the time to notify mankind of its approach. He said:

<blockquote>No man can properly interpret prophecy, and the Lord sends his angels to transmit correct information to his people,.... The Greater Gideon [Jesus] does not begin the Armageddon battle until the message of truth from Jehovah God concerning the same is transmitted by his angels to the faithful remnant on the earth.[58]

</blockquote>

Good or evil spirits?

Was Rutherford receiving his interpretations of Scriptures from angels or from demons? As the Society has more recently pointed out:

<blockquote>Yes, the Bible shows that there are not only good angels but also wicked ones. [59]

</blockquote> If Rutherford was receiving information into his mind from angels, which kind were they? Good or evil? Did God really send angels to enlighten Rutherford with the "divine interpretation" of Scripture in answer to his inquiries? If so, we should believe the doctrine and chronology he received from these angels. We should certainly respect and read Rutherford&#39;s books more than the Society today says we should!

On the other hand, what if these angels were lying spirits? Wouldn&#39;t this mean, despite his claims, that he was involved in spiritism? Wouldn&#39;t this make him a spirit medium (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/Medium.html)?

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>Wernt they suppose to have an occultist translate the bible at one time? i think the name was Barber? i dont know if theres any truth in this. But from what i can see, the man of lawlessness has been at work from the very start. The more i read and hear the more obvious it becomes.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]

Hi Elizabeth,

I believe it was Johannes Greber. He was the one they used to translate John 1:1, Matthew 27:51-53 and 1 John 4:1-3....although I don&#39;t know if they quoted him word for word in his translations, I think they only used certain words as they seen fit out of his translations, they may have only sampled his work. There may be more but these are the ones I know for sure.

-Emma
[/b][/quote]


Thanks Emma your correct
i remember reading about that some time ago.

Elizabeth

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>This link also speaks of Rutherford and the channeling of Angels to the annointed.

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/guided.html (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/guided.html)


Elizabeth[/b]

That was an interesting link to read, I have quoted part of it for those who didn&#39;t go to read it, as I think it begs a very serious question.... Was Rutherford actually a spirit medium? The kind the WTS denounce as evil today??

Angelic revelations

The Society in their recent history book, Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses--Proclaimers of God&#39;s Kingdom said:

<blockquote>Those who make up the one true Christian organization today do not have angelic revelations or divine inspiration. [49]

</blockquote>What they do not mention at all in this book reviewing their history is that Rutherford did claim to receive angelic revelations and thus a form of "divine inspiration". These angelic revelations were published in the Society&#39;s literature, particularly The Watchtower magazine:

<blockquote>Without a doubt the Lord uses his angels to cause the truth to be published in The Watchtower... Certainly God guides his covenant people by using the holy angels to convey his message to them. [50]

</blockquote>[/color]

Angelic mind control

How did God by angels transmit the interpretations of Scripture and prophecy to the remnant and specifically to Rutherford? He said that he did not know exactly how the angels transmitted the information to him. He said that he did not visually see these angels because they were "invisible to human eyes". [51] Nor was the information given in an audible voice:

<blockquote>These angels doubtless perform in connection with and toward the people of God many things that they cannot see with their natural eyes or hear with their natural ears. [52]

</blockquote>Rutherford said that these angels transmitted information inaudibly as thoughts into the remnant&#39;s minds. Rutherford said:

<blockquote>... the remnant are instructed by the angels of the Lord. The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones. [53]

Surely the holy angels of the Jehovah God, who are under the command of Christ Jesus and accompany him at his temple as his deputies, are clothed with power to put questions in the minds of those on earth who are devoted to God. It is not necessary for us to know just how this is done, but there can be no doubt about the power of the deputies of the Lord. [54]

</blockquote>Rutherford believed that the Holy Spirit was the force that, in the early church, God used to enlighten Christians. He believed that the Holy Spirit was replaced by angels in 1918 and these took over controlling the minds of the remnant:

<blockquote>... the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of "the servant", acting by and through his holy angels, has directed and is directing that work. It was the holy spirit that operated upon the minds of men in the early church to take certain action; but now the Lord Jesus himself has returned, is in his temple, and, acting by and through his holy angels, puts into the mind and heart of the remnant class to take positive action and to do a certain work... [55]

</blockquote>

Angelic prophecies

God also revealed to Rutherford (through angels) what was to happen or come to pass in the future:

<blockquote>The temple in heaven is open, and those who have been so marvelously favored by being brought into the temple now receive a vision of the prophecies that have come to pass. Jehovah graciously permits those in the temple to see other things that shall shortly come to pass. [56]

God reveals to his people the information of things that must shortly come to pass.... [57]

</blockquote>Rutherford believed that Jehovah God would not even start the battle of Armageddon until He first sent angels to inform the remnant that it was about to start, thus giving them the time to notify mankind of its approach. He said:

<blockquote>No man can properly interpret prophecy, and the Lord sends his angels to transmit correct information to his people,.... The Greater Gideon [Jesus] does not begin the Armageddon battle until the message of truth from Jehovah God concerning the same is transmitted by his angels to the faithful remnant on the earth.[58]

</blockquote>

[color="#0000af"]Good or evil spirits?

Was Rutherford receiving his interpretations of Scriptures from angels or from demons? As the Society has more recently pointed out:

<blockquote>Yes, the Bible shows that there are not only good angels but also wicked ones. [59]

</blockquote>If Rutherford was receiving information into his mind from angels, which kind were they? Good or evil? Did God really send angels to enlighten Rutherford with the "divine interpretation" of Scripture in answer to his inquiries? If so, we should believe the doctrine and chronology he received from these angels. We should certainly respect and read Rutherford&#39;s books more than the Society today says we should!

On the other hand, what if these angels were lying spirits? Wouldn&#39;t this mean, despite his claims, that he was involved in spiritism? Wouldn&#39;t this make him a spirit medium (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/Medium.html)?


[/b][/quote]

Thanks for quoting the link,
the only thing missing is that he never saw the angels, then it would have been a Joseph Smith senario. Whats strange is, why would Jehovah out of the blue decide to stop using the angels in i think he said 1914, and replace them with the holy spirit? isnt it Jehovahs spirit which should have been working from the start? Who told them it was angels, if they never heard any sound? The more you read the stranger it gets.

Elizabeth

[Rogue]

I found this interesting to read, but I just have to believe that these quotes are true, because howmany of ys today have access to the old literature... I don&#39;t have any old books or magazines, do any of u?

[misfit]

But what is the source of these quotes about Rutherford? I have seen bits of the book the Finished Mystery and Thy Kingdom Come, so I know that what is said about the pyramidology and the weird believes they had about Russell leading the Society after his death are true, but what are the sources of these &#39;angelic message claims&#39; of Rutherford? Can we verify this in the old publications, that Rutherford realy said these things?[/b]

Hi Rogue, the references were at the bottom of the page the link led to. I&#39;ll copy them here for you. Note the numbers at the side of each quote, they refer to the following publications:

49. Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses&endash;Proclaimers of God&#39;s Kingdom, 1993, p. 708.

50. The Watchtower, February 1, 1935, p. 41.

51. Vindication III, 1932, p. 250; The Watchtower, September 15, 1938, p. 285.

52. The Watchtower, August 1, 1936, p. 232, ¶30; 1937 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, December 8.

53. Preparation, p. 64; The Watchtower, August 15, 1933, pp. 247, 248, ¶17; The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1938, p. 286.

54. The Watchtower, May 15, 1938, p. 157; Light 1, pp. 61, 62. See also: The Watchtower, November 1, 1937, p. 326, ¶14; 1938 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, February 15; 1935 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, Nov. 22; The Watchtower, February 15, 1935, p. 54, ¶1.

55. The Watchtower, September 1, 1930, p. 263 ¶ 27; 1931 Yearbook of the International Bible Students Association, Daily Texts and Comments, February 17.

56. Vindication 1, p. 340.

57. Light 1, p. 120; 1931 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, October 4. See further, The Watch Tower, January 1, 1930, p. 7, ¶24; The Watch Tower, January 1, 1931, p. 5, ¶21.

58. The Watchtower, February 15, 1935, p. 52, ¶7, 8; 1935 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, November 13. See further, The Watchtower, July 1, 1938, pp. 199, 200, ¶24, 25; 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses, Daily Texts and Comments, June 22; J.F. Rutherford, His Vengeance, 1934, p. 6.

59. Awake!, May 22, 1971, p. 28.

[Rogue]

I wish I had old books or magazins to verify this...

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi Little curious one.


On search line type: Books by J. F. Rutherford

You can also type in: Books by C. T. Russell



When the info comes up click on the one that is run by Strictly Genteel - Theocatic Resources.

Let me know if that works. I tried to pm but your pm is disabled.

Sisterly Love,

E & E

[James]

Here&#39;s a link to some ancient scrolls from the founder- c.t. Russell.

Charles Taze Russell (http://www.ctrussell.us/ctrussell/ctrussell.nsf/All)

[Eyes & Ears]

WOW JAMES!!!

GREAT, THANKS :ban_dance01:

E & E

[diamondiiz]

<div align="left">

I wish I had old books or magazins to verify this...[/b]

Here are two links for old WT publication, the first link is good because I haven&#39;t seen any of those books but problem with these are that they are scans and aren&#39;t digitized so you can&#39;t search for words, phrases, etc. But are actual scans so thats good.

http://www.kingdomherald.com/downloads/

The second one has old stuff but also many rare items about the WT that you don&#39;t find anywheres else including all the pedophile court documents. This is Barbara Anderson&#39;s site, really good.

http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/

I&#39;m in the process of getting Brooklyn Daily Eagle scans of his libel suit against the paper that he lost obviously and other articles from the era I will post the suit transcript once I get the documents.

Now anyone doing research on WTS will find material quite astounding that is totally wierd, idiotic and deceitful to it&#39;s members. I&#39;ve said it before that Russell got much of his ideas from others mainly Adventist movement of his day, in fact could almost say that his group was a breakaway sect of Adventists. Rutherford was a character as well. Beth Sarin is the one that you guys mantion above where he build the house supposedly for the ancient about to return soon after 1925. The property was bought in &#39;26 and mansion build in &#39;29. Society minimizes the fact that Rutherford lived in it and drove a cadillac (I have to confirm this one, so take as that at present). But the other place that a post mantioned is Beth Shan or house of security. This was an adjacent lot where the bomb shelter was discovered under on of the buildings when they were demolishing it.

The John Greber was quoted several times to support NWT bible for certain scriptures because WT wanted to show they weren&#39;t the only ones translating certain passages in a way they did. If I remember correctly they&#39;ve used Greber&#39;s bible as a supporting source in their arguement years after they published an article on Greber being a medium and talking to spirit realm. But what else is interesting is that WTS during Rutherford time supported reading Angels and Women which was said to be written by inspiration from repentend angel, in other words inspired by a demon. </div>There is so many whacky things that were taught over the years and covered up or silently removed with a purpose of people forgetting them it&#39;s unbelievable! There is no wonder that internet is such a bad thing for WTS. Many faithful WTS followers do not find these things out because they view everyone saying a word against WT an evil slave, apostate and that we all twist the facts. It&#39;s programmed in and it&#39;s hard to get over the twisted logic that is taught by WT - I&#39;ve been there and glad to be free to look from outside in. Fact is there are many that do twist what WT says which is odd in itself since there is no point of twisting things when actual facts can be found that are weird in themselves, there is no need to twist anything.

[The Bible Student]

<div class='quotemain'>No, the man of lawlessness is like Judas.....he will be revealed soon, but Paul says that the thing acting as a restraint must be removed first...so what is the thing acting as a restraint in him being revealed? but when the tie omes, you know what they should do? Smoke it[/b]The WT says the thing acting as a restraint is the apostles of 1st Century when they died of Satan got in and the Catholic church was born from the apostates that were in the congregations of 1st Century, so when the apostles died of they went berserk and bingo we have the Roman Catholic church.

so the thing being revealed is the apostate RCC and the Reformation of all the other demon inspired religions coming from it.

I have read and heard that some Jw believe that Christ was the founder of Christendom, I guess thats where they can intertwine the belief that Ezekiel 34 is applying to Christendom and not to them (just one of some scriptures they misinterpret)

So the restraint removed the man of lawlessness the wts says is Christendom but don&#39;t we know that it is within gods house. Ez 13:9.

please correct me if wrong.
[/b][/quote]

This man of lawlessness is like judas and sits amidst the initimate congregation of anointed of Gods people...ezekiel 34 is Jehovah speaking not about christendom, but the leaders of his own people. Why would jehovah speak about christendom cintinually and condem them when they are already condemed? no, he is speaking about the apostates within his ranks, like the paedophiles and apostates of todays mob.

[The Bible Student]

Because these men of old were doing teribble things in GODS NAME, Jerimiah said what Jehovah was going to do. Even Jehovah posed the question "did you really think, by my silence, that I WOULD BECOME LIKE YOU"? (jerimiah 7:14 Psalms 50:21)

Jehovahs people are definately Jehovahs people and instrument, his chosen people, but the leaders are not feeding the lambs, not feeding the shep as Peter promised christ he would do, but they are sorely mislead by bad leadership that have began to apostasize, so, is Jehovah really listening? Maybe time for new wine into new wine skins, and this may come soon by arrival of Elijah, who will before fear inspiring day of jehovah comes restore all the things-namely the last two witnesses of Jehovah.</span></span>

[shikinah]

AMEN

Praise Jah.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Rogue]

<div align="left">
<div class='quotemain'>I wish I had old books or magazins to verify this...[/b]

Here are two links for old WT publication, the first link is good because I haven&#39;t seen any of those books but problem with these are that they are scans and aren&#39;t digitized so you can&#39;t search for words, phrases, etc. But are actual scans so thats good.

http://www.kingdomherald.com/downloads/

The second one has old stuff but also many rare items about the WT that you don&#39;t find anywheres else including all the pedophile court documents. This is Barbara Anderson&#39;s site, really good.

http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/

I&#39;m in the process of getting Brooklyn Daily Eagle scans of his libel suit against the paper that he lost obviously and other articles from the era I will post the suit transcript once I get the documents.

Now anyone doing research on WTS will find material quite astounding that is totally wierd, idiotic and deceitful to it&#39;s members. I&#39;ve said it before that Russell got much of his ideas from others mainly Adventist movement of his day, in fact could almost say that his group was a breakaway sect of Adventists. Rutherford was a character as well. Beth Sarin is the one that you guys mantion above where he build the house supposedly for the ancient about to return soon after 1925. The property was bought in &#39;26 and mansion build in &#39;29. Society minimizes the fact that Rutherford lived in it and drove a cadillac (I have to confirm this one, so take as that at present). But the other place that a post mantioned is Beth Shan or house of security. This was an adjacent lot where the bomb shelter was discovered under on of the buildings when they were demolishing it.

The John Greber was quoted several times to support NWT bible for certain scriptures because WT wanted to show they weren&#39;t the only ones translating certain passages in a way they did. If I remember correctly they&#39;ve used Greber&#39;s bible as a supporting source in their arguement years after they published an article on Greber being a medium and talking to spirit realm. But what else is interesting is that WTS during Rutherford time supported reading Angels and Women which was said to be written by inspiration from repentend angel, in other words inspired by a demon. </div>There is so many whacky things that were taught over the years and covered up or silently removed with a purpose of people forgetting them it&#39;s unbelievable! There is no wonder that internet is such a bad thing for WTS. Many faithful WTS followers do not find these things out because they view everyone saying a word against WT an evil slave, apostate and that we all twist the facts. It&#39;s programmed in and it&#39;s hard to get over the twisted logic that is taught by WT - I&#39;ve been there and glad to be free to look from outside in. Fact is there are many that do twist what WT says which is odd in itself since there is no point of twisting things when actual facts can be found that are weird in themselves, there is no need to twist anything.
[/b][/quote]

Thanks for all the links everyone! You know, someone else posted a similar question I think, but if I look at the ridiculous believes Russell and Rutherford had and that Rutherford might even have been a spirit medium and more of those weird things... if u take a look at the origin of the WT society and the lawsuits that were held back then and so on.... it makes me wonder: WHAT makes us think that these early JW&#39;s were Gods people and annointed? What makes us think that Jehovah favored them above other false religion?

[Rogue]

Because these men of old were doing teribble things in GODS NAME, Jerimiah said what Jehovah was going to do. Even Jehovah posed the question "did you really think, by my silence, that I WOULD BECOME LIKE YOU"? (jerimiah 7:14 Psalms 50:21)

Jehovahs people are definately Jehovahs people and instrument, his chosen people, but the leaders are not feeding the lambs, not feeding the shep as Peter promised christ he would do, but they are sorely mislead by bad leadership that have began to apostasize, so, is Jehovah really listening? Maybe time for new wine into new wine skins, and this may come soon by arrival of Elijah, who will before fear inspiring day of jehovah comes restore all the things-namely the last two witnesses of Jehovah.</span></span>[/b]


I wonder as well why, if there are good annointed in Brooklyn as well, why don&#39;t they receive Holy Spirit to understand what is going on? Why are they not troubled by the man of lawlessness in their midst.. if they don;t recognize the false teachings, the fornication with the UN and the child abuse policy, are they realy good annointed? Or are there no good annointed at this time, only professed annointed who think they will enherit the kingdom, when they will actualy be tossed aside by Jesus? I&#39;m just wondering if maybe the true annointed will be revealed when the two witnisses arive? That Jehovah has not yet chose his annointed?

Just a thought...

[panda]

I think the true anointed are scattered in the congregations, and maybe some that are DA or DF, I hope I am not overstepping by saying this, but maybe those in the GB are not all of the anointed, or maybe they are bad seed, because I can&#39;t see how they could not know about the man of lawlessness or other truths we do, it just doesn&#39;t make sense to me. Why aren&#39;t they speaking out, are they like us waiting on Jehovah to do something? surely being Christ&#39;s brothers they could understand the scriptures as we do in Ezeikel for example, that they apply to Gods people and not Christedom.

Or maybe the anointed are sleeping and the two witnesses will awaken them to the truth, and they will be gathered in the last shout. I get so confused with all this.

[panda]

<div class='quotemain'>There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth[/b]

Ow yeah that&#39;s a comical one too.. that house, beth-sarim, the house of princes was it? Rutherford&#39;s little palace... it makes u wonder why the witnisses back then swallowed it like sweet cake, the nonsense that Rutherford was telling!
[/b][/quote]he was a chauvinist, mens club, no mention of princesses. lol some brothers still have that mentality today, being princes in the new system, when I look at elder such and such I can&#39;t help but laugh, what makes him think he is so much better or on par with say Moses or Job. There is this elitism in the truth that I honestly despise with every fiber of me, I just hate it, and it is rife with some elders wives as well as some bethelites, not to mention the GB gag gag. :icon_redface:

[panda]

They still swallow it today, i think there was another house also Ben shaun or something like that. But i think the majority dont know, and when they do, there afraid of what else they&#39;ll dig up. So how do they get their bible interpretation today and spiritual guidance, is it by holy spirit or angels? Im still not sure if anyone really knows.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]the latest WT (June 15th) study artical for August 24-30 "The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body" says they don&#39;t have any more holy spirit than any of the b/s. They talk about have ith correct viewpoint and no way do they encourage worship or any sort of elitism, they are humble servants and we all have to have complete lowliness of mind. para 14.

But they do promote elitism amongst the brothers, when its CO visit time, everyone goes into the pioneer mode, and meeting attendence is full house, like hes the pope. Its amazing how many b/s pioneer when the CO comes to town, especially those whos want hubby to be the next favored one a new elder. Its such a shame.

[panda]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth[/b]

Ow yeah that&#39;s a comical one too.. that house, beth-sarim, the house of princes was it? Rutherford&#39;s little palace... it makes u wonder why the witnisses back then swallowed it like sweet cake, the nonsense that Rutherford was telling!
[/b][/quote]

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/bethshan.gif

NOW THEREFORE this trust is created and said trustee shall hold the title to said property in trust for the use and benefit of the following named persons, whose names appear in the Bible at the book of Hebrews, chapter eleven, verses one to forty, to wit: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sara, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Barak, Sampson, Jephthae, David, Samuel,

Until such time as the aforementioned persons return and identify themselves to the legal representatives of the said WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY and the consent of said Society take possession and control of said premises, the President of the WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY shall have the right and be duty bound to direct the management and use of said premises hereby conveyed and to determine who shall be in possession and have the active management thereof.

HOW CAN THIS BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.....





Beth-Shan in 1945, shortly after being sold by the Watchtower Society.
(Black and white photo courtesy of Edmond C. Gruss - color enhanced on computer) This is the other one called Beth-shan or Beth - Shean.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/bethshan.html







[/b][/quote]he was probably drunk when he did all this, an excuse or maybe he was just a full on nutter.

[Rogue]

<div class='quotemain'>They still swallow it today, i think there was another house also Ben shaun or something like that. But i think the majority dont know, and when they do, there afraid of what else they&#39;ll dig up. So how do they get their bible interpretation today and spiritual guidance, is it by holy spirit or angels? Im still not sure if anyone really knows.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]the latest WT (June 15th) study artical for August 24-30 "The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body" says they don&#39;t have any more holy spirit than any of the b/s. They talk about have ith correct viewpoint and no way do they encourage worship or any sort of elitism, they are humble servants and we all have to have complete lowliness of mind. para 14.

But they do promote elitism amongst the brothers, when its CO visit time, everyone goes into the pioneer mode, and meeting attendence is full house, like hes the pope. Its amazing how many b/s pioneer when the CO comes to town, especially those whos want hubby to be the next favored one a new elder. Its such a shame.
[/b][/quote]


hahaha some things are the same everywhere :P:P
I always foudn that very strange as well....!

About that study article, I will have a look at it... are they actualy saying we need to be carefull not to worship the slave? cause that would be a first... :P
What does lowliness of mind mean? Does it mean we need to think for ourselves? Cause that we be a complete shock to me, if they would encourage that lol

[panda]

LOOK AT THIS SECTION WHICH IS WRITTEN ABOUT THE OWNERS OF THE HOUSE ABRAHAM ETC

"The property and residence were deeded to these Old Testament individuals. None of the individuals named in the deed as rightful owners of the place (such as Abraham) showed up at Beth-Sarim to claim it, though the Society in print said numerous times that they could be expected to return "any day now." The Society sold the property and residence in 1947. [1] One individual at least claimed to be David of the Old Testament"

SO THEY WERE EXPECTING AN IMMEDIATE RESURRECTION OF THESE HOLY MEN AT THAT TIME, NO WAITING FOR THE EARTH TO EVEN RESEMBLE A PARADISE..AND WHO SAID THIS HOUSE WOULD EVEN BE STANDING AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDON. THESE ARE SOME SERIOUSLY STRANGE BELEIFS.

Elizabeth[/b]religion is a snare and a RACKET

[panda]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>They still swallow it today, i think there was another house also Ben shaun or something like that. But i think the majority dont know, and when they do, there afraid of what else they&#39;ll dig up. So how do they get their bible interpretation today and spiritual guidance, is it by holy spirit or angels? Im still not sure if anyone really knows.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]the latest WT (June 15th) study artical for August 24-30 "The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body" says they don&#39;t have any more holy spirit than any of the b/s. They talk about have ith correct viewpoint and no way do they encourage worship or any sort of elitism, they are humble servants and we all have to have complete lowliness of mind. para 14.

But they do promote elitism amongst the brothers, when its CO visit time, everyone goes into the pioneer mode, and meeting attendence is full house, like hes the pope. Its amazing how many b/s pioneer when the CO comes to town, especially those whos want hubby to be the next favored one a new elder. Its such a shame.
[/b][/quote]


hahaha some things are the same everywhere :P :P
I always foudn that very strange as well....!

About that study article, I will have a look at it... are they actualy saying we need to be carefull not to worship the slave? cause that would be a first... :P
What does lowliness of mind mean? Does it mean we need to think for ourselves? Cause that we be a complete shock to me, if they would encourage that lol
[/b][/quote]hi dear sister, no they didn&#39;t use the word worship, no but in para 15 says they don&#39;t expect special treatment, nor does them taking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation. I think adulation of some can be over exaggerated to worship, I certainly have come across that with others in the congregation, and they have always said the GB are special, but this WT they say they are not. So I&#39;m glad to rub it into sister so and so&#39;s face who bit my head of when I told her she shouldn&#39;t put them on a pedestal its like idolatry. Ha ha. Sound awful don&#39;t I but I have copped so much flack of different ones who look at me like I was an apostate because I refused to call the GB special.

[Rogue]

Well it is sort of humble for the GB to admit they are not special... but I don;t think this article is going to make any difference when the elders deal with so-called apostacy in the congregation, people who disagree with the GB are still considered heretical! The other day I saw a movie on tv about life as it was when the Inquisition had all power, and when people could be burned if anyone thought they were witches... and I thought to myself: wouldn&#39;t the GB love to have THAT kind of power...! They sometimes resemble the Inquisition in their &#39;witchhunt&#39;, only they can&#39;t burn anyone anymore, but they are just as unsensitive to common sense and reason as the Inquisition was!

Another thought I had was: the WT believes that they are the FDS and the channel of communication... but they believe ALL the annointed are the FDS, not just the ones in the governing body... but what happens if a random annointed receives "new light" from Jehovah and writes to the GB that they need to change a view on something? All the annointed are appointed to feed us right?? Why isn&#39;t it considered possible that a non-GB annointed receives new light on a subject... I highly doubt that the GB will responds to such a letter!

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>There has been so many contradictions and cover ups, that i dont know how they have got away with this for so long. But i suppose back in those days, they never thought in a million years there would be an instrument as thorough as the internet which would reveal all to those who are searching for the real truth. Like the house Beth Sareem, which scriptures where they refering to, to get away with purchasing a mansion for Abraham and moses? did they think they were coming back to America of all places?

Elizabeth[/b]

Ow yeah that&#39;s a comical one too.. that house, beth-sarim, the house of princes was it? Rutherford&#39;s little palace... it makes u wonder why the witnisses back then swallowed it like sweet cake, the nonsense that Rutherford was telling!
[/b][/quote]he was a chauvinist, mens club, no mention of princesses. lol some brothers still have that mentality today, being princes in the new system, when I look at elder such and such I can&#39;t help but laugh, what makes him think he is so much better or on par with say Moses or Job. There is this elitism in the truth that I honestly despise with every fiber of me, I just hate it, and it is rife with some elders wives as well as some bethelites, not to mention the GB gag gag. :icon_redface:
[/b][/quote]


Hi Panda,
This is why i havnt been to the meetings for several months now, and its this elitism, pompus attitude, elders wives with a chip on their shoulders and the back stabbing. Yes and who are such individuals who can see themselves as princes, like any of them lead people out of the red sea. :bad:

Elizabeth

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>Because these men of old were doing teribble things in GODS NAME, Jerimiah said what Jehovah was going to do. Even Jehovah posed the question "did you really think, by my silence, that I WOULD BECOME LIKE YOU"? (jerimiah 7:14 Psalms 50:21)

Jehovahs people are definately Jehovahs people and instrument, his chosen people, but the leaders are not feeding the lambs, not feeding the shep as Peter promised christ he would do, but they are sorely mislead by bad leadership that have began to apostasize, so, is Jehovah really listening? Maybe time for new wine into new wine skins, and this may come soon by arrival of Elijah, who will before fear inspiring day of jehovah comes restore all the things-namely the last two witnesses of Jehovah.</span></span>[/b]


I wonder as well why, if there are good annointed in Brooklyn as well, why don&#39;t they receive Holy Spirit to understand what is going on? Why are they not troubled by the man of lawlessness in their midst.. if they don;t recognize the false teachings, the fornication with the UN and the child abuse policy, are they realy good annointed? Or are there no good annointed at this time, only professed annointed who think they will enherit the kingdom, when they will actualy be tossed aside by Jesus? I&#39;m just wondering if maybe the true annointed will be revealed when the two witnisses arive? That Jehovah has not yet chose his annointed?

Just a thought...
[/b][/quote]

I can see where your coming from, it is mind boggling to assume we have anointed men who recieve the holy spirit, that just sit back and have no valid say over the corruption which go&#39;s on. Where were they with the UN saga, the UN birthday celebrations and out of court settelments? Wasnt the watchtower society taken over by another group of men several years ago? I remember something being said about some shake up which had gone on but cant remember exactly what.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[panda]

Well it is sort of humble for the GB to admit they are not special... but I don;t think this article is going to make any difference when the elders deal with so-called apostacy in the congregation, people who disagree with the GB are still considered heretical! The other day I saw a movie on tv about life as it was when the Inquisition had all power, and when people could be burned if anyone thought they were witches... and I thought to myself: wouldn&#39;t the GB love to have THAT kind of power...! They sometimes resemble the Inquisition in their &#39;witchhunt&#39;, only they can&#39;t burn anyone anymore, but they are just as unsensitive to common sense and reason as the Inquisition was!

Another thought I had was: the WT believes that they are the FDS and the channel of communication... but they believe ALL the annointed are the FDS, not just the ones in the governing body... but what happens if a random annointed receives "new light" from Jehovah and writes to the GB that they need to change a view on something? All the annointed are appointed to feed us right?? Why isn&#39;t it considered possible that a non-GB annointed receives new light on a subject... I highly doubt that the GB will responds to such a letter![/b]I agree, its just sickening, its terrible, we Know Robert has written to them before, makes me wonder how many of the anointed have written to them? they would ignore them for sure. Yet in para 15 of that study article it says not judge anyone that takes of the emblems its between them and Jehovah. I hope that all this ends soon, it really is hard to take, especially sitting at the meetings looking at elder so and so, an avid reading head full of knowledge, intelligent yet sits back and believes all this, I don&#39;t understand, and yet he would disfellowship for apostacy because I don&#39;t agree with them.

[Rogue]

I can see where your coming from, it is mind boggling to assume we have anointed men who recieve the holy spirit, that just sit back and have no valid say over the corruption which go&#39;s on. Where were they with the UN saga, the UN birthday celebrations and out of court settelments? Wasnt the watchtower society taken over by another group of men several years ago? I remember something being said about some shake up which had gone on but cant remember exactly what.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]

Exactely my point! I don&#39;t think we can understand for certain what it all means, but it DOES make u wonder, doesnt it!! It makes u wonder if there even ARE faithfull annointed at Brooklyn at the moment... what makes them go silent, are they asleep?? Anyway, time will tell, soon it will all be clear to us...

[shikinah]

The only people it sems clearer to at this moment in time is us on this board. Its difficult knowing the truth in such depth and keeping your mouth shut. Im sure we are finding out these things for a very good reason, but only time will tell, what its all for.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[panda]

The only people it sems clearer to at this moment in time is us on this board. Its difficult knowing the truth in such depth and keeping your mouth shut. Im sure we are finding out these things for a very good reason, but only time will tell, what its all for.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]there is a couple of things I have noticed about those on this forum is they have a strong hatred of injustice, and are hurt by the unloving attitude of the organization and some of the brothers, they also have a strong thirst for spiritual food. I think we are the ones that a crying and groaning about the detestable things happening in our midst, and the ones that don&#39;t like it that way.

I also believe there is a very good reason why we have been given this knowledge. But don&#39;t forget people lurk around and although they may not be on this forum they are still getting the info.

[Rogue]

Hi sis panda,
Very true indeed... sometimes it might come across as if we have some vendeta against the WT, but that is not the case, we cannot bare injustice, we have a strong sense of justice and can&#39;t thrive very well in a surrounding like the current Society... and because there is a cover up mentality in the organisation and we are not allowed to speak of our feelings because that will mean DF... we feel, like someone else said on one of the current topics, as if we were abused women who cannot speak of their feelings in their own home, something breaks in them after a while, and that is what happened to us as well in the congregation... that is why we are on this board, because we indeed groan and sigh about what is happening in Jerusalem&#39;s midst!

Amazing that u cited Ezekiel 9, because I was reading that myself before logging on, and thought to myself: how come JW&#39;s call themselves the ones who groan and sigh about the things that are happening in the world, when Ezekiel speaks about those who groan and sigh about the things that are happening IN THEIR MIDST! Of course the WT applies that to false christianity nowadays... but that is impossible to apply this text to them, when ever has Jehovah talked about false religion as His people or His city Jerusalem??? I&#39;m so amazed that I never read these scriptures before like I read them now... just goes to show how the organisation teaches us to do selective reading, they apply certain scriptures to certain meanings and repeat them a million times in lectures and publications, so when u read these scriptures in the Bible, ur mind sort of passes them by, because u think: oh yeah, THAt scripture, the one I&#39;ve heard about a million times now, I know what THAT one says... and in this way, u don&#39;t feel the need to examine what this scripture REALY says!

[Jahsdisciple]

Are they the channel of communication...yes. But I love looking at the word "Commune" from which the word "communication" comes. It comes fom the idea of living with someone in some way...like the hippy communes as an example only. New ideas were discovered...though not Jahs.

But the idea that the whole thing is about living with Jah/God in some way. In other words: communing with Jah via the mind.

Words are the way we live with/commune with Jah. How ? Some sort of commune-ication. In other words...thoughts are exchanged somehow.

So Communication in our case is living with Jah via the mind,through thoughts that are transfered via the bible. His thoughts become ours via words as the transfer mechinism.

So,JWs help a person start to see where the thoughts of Jah are stored and recorded...to begin to understand these thoughts. How to understand them. Without them,there would be no way for us to know this. No other org has such a program of spreading the thoughts of Jah so we can live with Jah via His thoughts, which He desires greatly for us to know.

However,we must grow ourselves and learn to feed ourselves... to mature and understand the deeper parts of Jahs mind. JWs start us down the track,but we have to learn to feed ourselves...learn to commune with Him ourselves.

EG:If someone introduces you to someone of the complemetary sex and you get married and commune with them via the special arrangment of marriage...the person who introduces you to them then doesnt also move in with you both...(LOL) They did their job.

So,no matter how we are introduced to Jah and His thoughts..and we choose to commune with Him and treasure His thoughts,the way we are introduced is not more important than the way we live Him... personally. They cant do our communing with Him for us..we have to do it for ourselves.

Psa 139:17.How precious to me are your thoughts, O Jah!
How vast is the sum of them!

Psa 40:5.Many, O Jehovah my God, are the wonderful works which thou hast done, And thy thoughts which are to us-ward; They cannot be set in order unto thee; If I would declare and speak of them, They are more than can be numbered.

Heres to real commune-ication with Jah !!
Jahsdisciple.