Zone Overseers Visit

[panda]

I have just come from our Zone O visit, over 14,000 here in Sydney and thousands more around OZ listening in.

Main points were about how Christ suffered and his witnessing was his main objective, even with his last breath he witnessed to the criminal next to him. Was a lot on what Christ went through and how even though some of b/s are going through terrible problems and tragedies we should do all we can in the preaching.

Also bought out about not pursuing a career in the world and college as waste of time seeing the end is nigh and that's why many pursue a career for the prestige and money, that is really their main objective. Keep life simple and follow Christ example of putting preaching first. Good point as he said, why accumulate more material things when we will be saying good bye to them, or can we say good bye to them, where is our heart?

I have been to many assemblies over the past 31years and I have never ever heard the watchtower quoted some many times, the bible was used but the watchtower more, it was said over and over the watchtower says, the watchtower said, etc.
Talk was "What the Future holds".
Brother Gary Lurch of Austria, one of the GB, (think thats his name) Luke 21 and Matt 24 were the bible highlights.

He said some things were figurative and others literal, he mentioned spiritual adultery of Christendom with the UN, (Lk 21:20)
He said that we are close, and that not every individual will be witnessed to that only nations, and that JEW have covered all the nations. (Matt 10:23)

He said the celestial phenomenon, (Matt 24:29) could be literal, like comets, the one that shone for a year after the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, he mentioned the stars falling from heaven.

His view was a fear inspiring day, they don't know how Jesus will come but it will be frightening, and they don't know how long the tribulation will go for he said that they are not sure if any of the anointed will be around in the New System. Interestingly he said that they would be sealed during the GT, but I thought it was always taught that once all the anointed are sealed then the GT would start, (this was all the talk out in field service.) He also said it might be possible that there will be tsunami, Luke 21:25 the roaring of the seas, or he said it could be the people, as sea does represent people. He also said that peoples flesh will literally rot before our eyes, and their eyes will pop out, this he said may possibly be radiation, that Jehovah uses to destroy the wicked, I tell you I would not like to have been a little kid in that audience.

There were quite a few contradictions, and a lot of we don't know this or that until it happens.

He also said that the bodies will be from one end of the earth to the other, and that we have to bury them all. (I thought they were bird food :dontknow: ) he stated that the scriptures say that Gods people will bury the wicked, (he didn't state the scripture).

He said that as the gradual resurrection happens (which by the way he said would probably be about 300 yrs) the people will need shelter so we have to build them all houses, he also added that they will be hungry so we have to cook for them ( I kid you not) :icon_eek: nothing was said about the wonderful teaching work we will do, he said we will all be very very busy working and if you didn't like work then you wont like being there. It was very childish.

There were of course some good spiritual nourishment from Gods word, but tend to be spoiled by referring to the WT all the time.

He mentioned the UN and not sure what sort of force it will take on as the eight king. 1Thess 5:3 he said that they don't know in what way this will be but wont be a cry, but rather said, but not the actual words it could be something like the words, or may not be a huge thing just a side thing said, we don't know. Well thats another contradiction to what I was taught studying. So many were not sure, but it is close and keep preaching, and avoid college and higher education. To the young ones pursue a career pioneering.

He mentioned this generation thing again, I said to the friend (a sister) thats an old Rutherford light from 1927 nothing new, she just said oh yes, never asked any questions.

All in all it was nice to be with all the b/s and I got some good points, and enjoyed singing praises to Jehovah and some excellent scriptures and points in both talks and WT study.


Cheers
Panda :icon_razz:

[FGM]

Thanks for posting the information
I was interested to see your remark about the number of references to the WT.
I just wonder how these Bros get picked to give talks for a Zone visit.
Thousands of witnesses are mobilized to listen to the information that is often no more inspiring than a usual public talk at a Kingdom Hall. I remember the last Zone visit program I attended and to be truthful I came away pretty disappointed.
Maybe I was expecting some kind of new truth or new revelation on a scripture to be forthcoming. But nothing presented was particularly new or even worth talking about. The speaker was pretty dull to be honest. I find it hard to actually remember what the topic was. During the program I was thinking more about how much money the transportation companies must have made from the arrangement as most had to attend by train or hired bus than what was being said.
Anyway maybe others have had more inspiring Zone visits. I fail to see the need to have such. But it's just my opinion. Maybe many are encouraged by them.

[watchman]

Christ foretold that there would be "tsunamis"? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard come out of Bethel. Jesus once called his beloved apostles "senseless ones and slow in hear to believe the prophets." The Governing Body fall in to that catagory.

Watchman

[Berean]

Wow... they're clueless and they admit it. Sad. Thanks for posting that, panda, we can see that they're showing their true colours again.

[Nightflyer]

He said the celestial phenomenon, (Matt 24:29) could be literal, like comets, the one that shone for a year after the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, he mentioned the stars falling from heaven.

Cheers
Panda :icon_razz:[/b]

Interestingly I sent in a reader's question years ago about this Halley's comet and asked if it did fulfill the prophecy back then... they answered me that maybe they will publish something about this issue in the future. :)

[TheCook]

Thanks for the info, panda! The part about Jesus Christ sounds interesting, it's always uplifting to hear details about our Saviour's life on Earth. But if they start to talk about how Christianity is committing adultery with the UN, I'm going to have a hard time not laughing out loud.

About what we'll be doing during the Millennium reign, I think mostly about the teaching work being done. That's going to be a lot of fun, and a lot easier without Satan and the demons being around to distract people. Nobody has to worry about not fitting in when it comes to the work load, that's nonsense. Everybody will have their place and nobody will feel that they don't belong or don't have the qualifications. Keep close to Jehovah, be true to His word and be meek, and we'll all have a great time together.

We'll be listening to brother Jeffrey Jackson over here. I've heard him speak before, he's a good speaker I think. He's one of the new, "young" guys in the GB.

[Deborah]

1

[Berean]

Has anybody else come to the conclusion that only the great crowd and heavenly anointed exist during the millennium reign?[/b]
*raises hand* I've never understood that scripture to mean anything else than just that. When reading Revelation chapter 20, here is the timeline as I picture it:

1) The Devil is bound for 1,000 years
2) The first resurrection takes place, those resurrected rule as kings and priests during the 1,000 years
3) The 1,000 years end, and Satan is let loose, misleading many
4) The Devil is hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur
5) The earthly resurrection takes place
6) The dead are judged and death is done away with

The only problem I can see with this is that if there's only the great crowd, who are those who are being misled by Satan? Maybe during those 1,000 years this great crowd will grow into "those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog" (Revelation 20:8)?

And another question that I've always wondered about: where does the notion come from that the great crowd will have to teach the risen dead during the 1,000 years? I mean, where is this stated (or even hinted at) in the Bible?

[Jeshurun]

Hello everyone,

Daniel 12:1,2 seems to place the general resurrection immediately after the Great Tribulation:

"And during that time Mi´cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. 2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence.

I don't know what they're pulling lately with this 300 years stuff, but the WT's (old) explanation that the righteous and unrighteous would be resurrected during the thousand year reign, when they could be given a second chance without Satan's influence makes sense. As far as them not "living" again until the thousand years are ended, I think Paul's explanation makes sense:

Ephesians 2:2 Furthermore, [it is] YOU [God made alive] though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins, 2 in which YOU at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. 3 Yes, among them we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, 5 made us alive together with the Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses—by undeserved kindness YOU have been saved— 6 and he raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus, 7 that in the coming systems of things there might be demonstrated the surpassing riches of his undeserved kindness in his graciousness toward us in union with Christ Jesus.

Revelation 20:6 would seem to concur with this idea:

6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

So we see that those being resurrected are not yet "alive" in God's eyes in overcoming the second death as are those who took part in the first resurrection, which takes place after the Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven (Matthew 24:30) and before Armageddon, when the evening meal of God and the marriage to the Lamb takes place and the Kingdom is complete. The way I see it, this phase takes place during the extra 45 days of Daniel 12:12.

:Love:
Jesh

[Shibboleth]

Thanks Panda.

From reading it I actually congratulate the brother for being blunt. Every witness I talk to (not every but alot) think that during the GT we are protected. Which we are not. We have to look at it as is Revelation being all literal, all scriptural, or a little of both. In some instances could Rev. have both a scriptural and literal meaning? I don't think the brother was far off from saying that a tsunami was prophesied. Look at revelation. A huge piece of rock slams into the ocean. It would cause devestation. Now Jesus actually prophesying about a tsunami is bunk, but he did fortell earthquakes and they do cause tsunamis. He didn't fortell the changing weather patterns either, but it doesn't mean when he talked about the events in the world that these events are minor. they are all part of the big picture. Now as bible students we have to be prepared for anything. A tragic tsunami hitting the east coast of the U.S. would cripple the country. What if the faultline in the center of the atlantic erupts from volcanic activity? Talk about being screwed on the east coast of the U.S. to the west coastline of the UK and africa.

We need to be told what to expect. Yes it's great that we have something to focus on, the paradise. But the world is far from that at this moment. We will need to rebuild.

I believe it was Ezekiel that spoke of the time when we have to bury the dead. it would be a great mountain of debris and it would be an unclean place on the earth. there would be people chosen to do the task.


Ezekiel 39

11 (http://) “‘And it must occur in that day that I shall give to Gog a place there, a burial place in Israel, the valley of those passing through on the east of the sea, and it will be stopping up those passing through. And there they will have to bury Gog and all his crowd, and they will be certain to call [it] the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 12 (http://) And those of the house of Israel will have to bury them for the purpose of cleansing the land, for seven months. 13 (http://) And all the people of the land will have to do the burying, and it will certainly become for them a matter of fame in the day that I glorify myself,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

14 (http://) “‘And there will be men for continual [employment] whom they will divide off, passing along through the land, burying, with those passing through, those left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. To the end of seven months they will keep making search. 15 (http://) And those passing through must pass along through the land, and should one actually see the bone of a man he must also build beside it a marker, until those who do the burying will have buried it in the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 16 (http://) And the name of [the] city will also be Ha·mo´nah. And they will have to cleanse the land.’[/b]

[SlaveForJah]

<div class='quotemain'>Has anybody else come to the conclusion that only the great crowd and heavenly anointed exist during the millennium reign?[/b]
*raises hand* I&#39;ve never understood that scripture to mean anything else than just that. When reading Revelation chapter 20, here is the timeline as I picture it:

1) The Devil is bound for 1,000 years
2) The first resurrection takes place, those resurrected rule as kings and priests during the 1,000 years
3) The 1,000 years end, and Satan is let loose, misleading many
4) The Devil is hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur
5) The earthly resurrection takes place
6) The dead are judged and death is done away with

The only problem I can see with this is that if there&#39;s only the great crowd, who are those who are being misled by Satan? Maybe during those 1,000 years this great crowd will grow into "those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog" (Revelation 20:8)?

And another question that I&#39;ve always wondered about: where does the notion come from that the great crowd will have to teach the risen dead during the 1,000 years? I mean, where is this stated (or even hinted at) in the Bible?

[/b][/quote]

Hello Berean and Deborah,

Christian Greetings.

Just a slight modification to your timeline there Berean.

1) The first resurrection takes place, (the Marriage of the Lamb then occurs, and the Bridegroom and his church return to fight the War of Armageddon), those resurrected rule as kings and priests during the 1,000 years (all this ensuing with the Seventh Trumpet being the beginning)
2) The Devil is bound for 1,000 years
3) The earthly resurrection takes place
4) The 1,000 years end, and Satan is let loose, misleading many
5) The Devil is hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur
6) The dead are judged and death is done away with

As to the scripture in Revelation 20:5, the interlinear seems to give the thought of the completion of the earthly resurrection being concurrent with the completion of the 1000 years. The thought being conveyed, I believe, is that the earthly resurrection will be an ongoing thing, one that will commence soon after the abyssing of Satan (as Jesh pointed out), and also one that would continue until the 1,000 years were ended. I think this is what is meant by "the rest of the dead", "the rest" signifying "the remainder." In other words, some would be raised early in the Millennium, while others would be raised on a progressive basis, otherwise the word "rest" loses its meaning and significane, and the phrase could have been more correctly termed "the dead", all inclusive.

Personally, I see no basis for assigning any 300 year period to the resurrection.

I hope this helps.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[stayawake]

Just going to share my thought&#39;s
Hope you don&#39;t mind.
My thoughts and understanding goes along with what was taught by the WT years ago.
Showing at one time there still were some real sons of God in the WT
that was able to get some good food out to us.

The "Aid to Bible Undrstanding "had a great section on how orderly the resurrection could take place. That was a blue volumn that was replaced by the two insight volumns.

It brought out that after the wedding or first resurrection was over that ,there would be a post Armegedden resurrection of the rightious,

These would be all the faithful men of old and all that died knowing the ONE and only true God.
Jesus had said in John 5 :25-30 there would be a resurrection of the rightious And the unrightious.

The rightious being first to to be brought back
to learn just how Abrahams seed came into the picture, to be a blessing for all mankind.These being the faithful men of old.
Along with the other rightious who didnt live up to Armegedden ,who had the hope of rebuilding the earth for the millions that would be brought back gradually who didn&#39;t know Jehovah.
These would include all the rightious who died during our present time.
They will work hand by hand with us , getting ready to make way for the Unrightious.

Then it was thought that gradually the resurrection of both could be brought back orderly with in 500 years. Each generation welcoming back the previous generation
Just like watching your family tree being orderly traced back to one of Noahs sons,
right there in our life time during Jesus Christ reign.

That 1000 year reigh of Christ is called the Judgement Day.
Should any one stir up trouble ,and refuse to reform during that 1000 years ,
fire would COME DOWN and and that one would die.
Coming down to do away with that one shows
that it will be Jehovah that will take that ones life.

There won&#39;t be any of us casting stones, Remember this will be Jugement Day. The book of Isaah explains it this way
" although 100 years old that person would be a mere boy( child ) when he dies ".( compared to everlasting life ).
Satan is not in the picture during that 1000 year reign of Christ so the execution of any one during that time shows a very rebelous heart. So justice will have been served,

During that time we will be growing back to perfection.

At the end of Christ reign, Satan will be let loose for a little while just long enough to test those who never were tested ,as the Great Crowd was,
He will mislead many. the final outcome will be all of them will be thrown in the lake of fire.
It will be then that the obedient or the rest of the dead (thats us cuz the others were already judged to the lake of fire )but we will come to life as it is then that we are written into the BOOK of Life.( everlasting life )Up until then we were not garenteed life everlasting.

This is what the Messianic Kingdom will do for us .
Jesus will have full filled his assigned position as King Priest during his 1,000 year reign but also as Isaah 9:6 brings out ,he will also have been our Wonderful Counselor , Mighty God , Eternal Father, and Prince of peace

After all things are back to the way Jah purposed for man to be in the beginning, then our Lord Jesus hands everthing that was made perfect to his Father and then he too becomes subjected,to his Father.
We have now became sons of the Most High here on earth , as Adam was in the beginning 1 Cor 15:28

I gave enough key words for searching out the scriptures , my eyes are weak.

Well anyway this is how I see it , so I am just speaking for myself.
love stayawake

[inthebrig]

the scriptures about burying the bodies is in ezekiel 38.
jeremiah says that the bodies will be from one extremity of the earth to the other (jerimaih 25:33)

[inthebrig]

The great crowd survive the great tribulation, and we cant put a number on it, the bible says so. But as regards the anointed, the days of that tribulation will be cut short on their account, and then at the last trumpet sound they will be taken up in the twinkling of an eye ready to be at christs side for the destruction and judgement at armageddon, so the 144000 should be in heaven with christ during his reign, where they will no doubt play a big part, and their very leaves of these big trees will be used for the curing of mankind during that reign, in helping christ bring back mankind to perfection. Then at the end of his reign, Jesus hands back the kingdom to jehovah so that jehovah once again becomes all things to all the very begining.