The Memorial Of Christ's Death [Archive] - e-Jehovah's Witnesses: A Place for Jehovah's Witnesses and Interested Ones

View Full Version : The Memorial Of Christ's Death

SlaveForJah

02-28-2008, 10:39 PM

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

May the peace of God that excels all thought guard your hearts and mental powers.

I have a question regarding the Memorial. Who is allowed to attend and/or partake? This is not inteded to be a discussion of the New Covenant. In perusing some of the other forums, I found the following, rather disturbing information, quoted direct from the Watchtower Society's own publications. I will post these for discussion, as the Memorial is fast approaching.

From Questions From Readers, Watchtower June 15, 1956

"Speaking of those who partake of the Lord's evening meal unworthily, the January 15, 1956, Watchtower said on page 60, paragraph 18: "So let him benefit by the corrective, disciplinary judgment that Jehovah gives him. Let him discern what he himself is, and reform. If he has been at fault, yet he should obey the command and eat the Lord's evening meal, but do so discerning the Lord's sacrificed body and asking forgiveness for his sin. Then let this celebration strengthen him to follow Christ's steps more closely during the coming year." Does this mean a disfellowshiped person should partake of the loaf and wine at the Lord's evening meal?—M. P., Germany.

This has no reference to persons that are in a disfellowshiped condition, but to only those who are continuing in the body of Christ but who are yet subject to sin and who therefore commit sins for which the sacrifice of Christ provides the basis for forgiveness. A disfellowshiped person is no member of Jehovah's congregation and may not be served the emblems by those serving at the celebration of the Lord's evening meal. Jesus did not serve Judas the emblems but sent him out of the house before instituting the Lord's evening meal.—John 13:21-31; Matt. 26:20-25; Mark 14:10-21.

If a disfellowshiped person desires to partake of the Lord's evening meal he should show full repentance by going to the service committee of the congregation from which he has been disfellowshiped and let them examine him as to the sincerity of his repentance and his willingness to be put on probation. If he satisfies this service committee, then they may reinstate him and put him on a period of probation, and they will so advise the congregation. If he shows good deportment during the time of his probation and up to the celebration of the Lord's evening meal, then he may be served the emblems at the celebration with sincere appreciation of God's forgiveness through the things symbolized by the emblems. Then his participation in the Lord's evening meal should strengthen him to continue on conducting himself properly through the rest of his probation period and onward after it has ended and the reinstatement is full and complete, no longer qualified by any probationary restraints. "

From Questions From Readers, Watchtower August 1, 1958

"One of Jehovah's witnesses who claims to be of the anointed remnant recently went to the hospital and took a blood transfusion, voluntarily. Should she be allowed to partake of the emblems of bread and wine at Memorial time?—R. J., United States.

We, of course, regret with you that this sister who professes to be one of the anointed remnant took a blood transfusion voluntarily during her stay in the hospital. We believe that she did the wrong thing contrary to the will of God. However, congregations have never been instructed to disfellowship those who voluntarily take blood transfusions or approve them. We let the judgment of such violators of God's law concerning the sacredness of blood remain with Jehovah, the Supreme Judge. The only thing that can be done in the cases of individuals like this is to view them as immature and therefore not capable of taking on certain responsibilities, hence refusing to make certain assignments of service to such ones.

Since an individual is not disfellowshipped because of having voluntarily taken a blood transfusion or having approved of a dear one's accepting a blood transfusion, you have no right to bar this sister from the celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal. As an anointed member of Christ's body she is under orders and command by Christ Jesus to partake. Whether she is unfaithful as to what she professes to be by virtue of taking the emblems of the Lord's Evening Meal is something for Jehovah God to determine himself. His judgment begins at the house of God. It is not for you or anyone serving the Memorial emblems to act as the judge, but to allow the emblems to go to anyone in the audience as these are passed along in the normal manner of letting each one have the opportunity to partake.<span style="color:#000000">"

Watchtower April 1, 1960

<span style="color:#ff0000">"</span>Disfellowshiped persons are not welcome. Should they attend and partake, they would not be counted. Likewise, if any newcomers who are not yet baptized partake of the emblems, they should not be counted.

Those counted as partakers are those known as faithful, baptized servants of God. We do not invite disfellowshipped persons to attend. But if such a one is present, there is no reason to be disturbed if he is seated in a row with others and proceeds to partake of the emblems. Such a one is not counted, in any case, as a partaker."

Watchtower February 1, 1976

<span style="color:#ff0000">"</span>Each one of the anointed who attends the Memorial examines himself beforehand to see if he is worthy to partake and whether he truly has the witness of the spirit. (Rom. 8:16, 24; 1 Cor. 11:27-29) Occasionally there are some former partakers who have come to realize that their relationship to God is not that of an anointed son. They should properly cease partaking, but this would not be an indication that they have become unfaithful. It is just that their personal relationship with Jehovah has become clarified as being one with a earthly hope."

Please offer some thoughts as to what this all means. I think it's pretty clear what the Watchtower is demanding. But, as we all know, the Watchtower has been woefully wrong in the past. What do the scriptures teach?

Agape

SlaveForJah
</span>

TheCook

02-28-2008, 10:59 PM

Wow, some of those quotes are pretty harsh. "Disfellowshiped (sic?) persons are not welcome ... ". I guess that depends on the disfellowshipped person. Let's say he actually did commit a willful, knowing sin that has scriptural ground, but regrets his actions and is determined not to do them again. Why wouldn't he be welcome at the Memorial?

I think the elders at my congregation must have missed those guidelines. I have never seen anyone shutting a df'd person out from any meeting, unless they start screaming and start serious trouble of some kind (which has happened once to my knowledge).

panda

02-29-2008, 03:45 AM

Jinnvisible

02-29-2008, 07:57 AM

Interesting research though Slave for Jah, thank you.</span></div>
</span>

SlaveForJah

02-29-2008, 09:47 PM

</span>[/b]

Aside from the obvious implications of the falsehood of 1914 illustrated by the fact that there would be no need for the Memorial if Christ had returned, there are more insidious things at work here.

First off, even in the face of the premature self-appointment as "faithful and discreet slave", I feel that Jehovah's people can clearly be found within the ranks of those called Jehovah's Witnesses. The issue is the corporate slavery demanded by the Watchtower Society. What right does a corporation have to determine, as a matter of policy, which by necessity is NOT spiritually determined, who is allowed to be present at a gathering of Christ's followers? Sure, they publish "bible based" material for study and discussion, but this is, again, in the framework of its corporate function.

Although they did not have the "right", certainly the Sanhedrin had the "muscle" to enforce who was, and who was not, allowed within the temple for festivals and celebrations. However, they did not have any say over who was allowed to celebrate the Passover, or in what manner. It was a command for ALL residents of Israel, whether Jewish, proselyte, freedman or bond. It stands to reason that since the Great Passover Lamb, who takes away the sin of the world is what is being memorialized, that the same should apply. I see nowhere in Scripture that Peter or Paul or James or Timothy, or anyone else for that matter, is charged with administrating some sort of policy as to who is allowed to attend the Memorial.

Only thing I can find is where Paul addresses the issue of partaking "unworthily". But even that is something that is leveled to the individual, something for him and his God to discern as to his worthiness. But even that scripture is not about attendance. Like you said, how the count is taken is not important, and the Society's position is meaningless and contradictory. Or, as EF so beautifully put it "if Robert (or anyone) is one of the annointed, his being disfellowshipped by representatives of the WTS count for nothing. He is not spiritually dead by any means! Accordingly, I think it is important for those observing him at the meeting to recognise that his being disfellowshipped does not detract from his conviction as to his annointing." ((parentheses and emphasis mine) Thanks for that EF!))

I think this is what Jesus had in mind when he told us the following:

"2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me." - John 16:2, 3<span style="color:#000000">

If anything becomes clear, it is this: Those who do these things (those who are of the "weeds" and among the heirarchy of the corporate WTS) HAVE NOT COME TO KNOW EITHER THE FATHER OR THE CHRIST.

Sorry if I seem out of sorts, but this is just frustrating to no end.

Agape

SlaveForJah

ps - the credit for finding these quotes should go to Bang and Vicky.

watchman

02-29-2008, 11:05 PM

The whole business of the Society trying to control who is anointed and who is not is rather silly. The scritpure says that 'Jehovah knows those who belong to him.' So it doesn't matter if the Society counts one as a partaker, Jehovah's knowing his own is what counts.

watchman

panda

03-03-2008, 12:06 AM

[/b]If anything becomes clear, it is this: Those who do these things (those who are of the "weeds" and among the heirarchy of the corporate WTS) HAVE NOT COME TO KNOW EITHER THE FATHER OR THE CHRIST.

I agree wholeheartly with this, they ignore Christ's sheep, in wanting glory for themselves, and in so doing disown both the Christ and Jehovah. They have a position that has been corrupted just like Satan through pride.

Becka

03-03-2008, 02:26 AM

billy

03-03-2008, 10:26 AM

I am not sure about the teaching on this, I do believe that Christ died for the whole of mankind and he is mediator to prayer for everyone to Jehovah, weather or not that means the G/C should partake of the emblems I dont' know.

I am very confused about the WT teaching on this. I personally have never partaken nor have I wanted to until this year. And its not because I think the G/C should, its because I no longer know where I belong, I have never ever had any desire to go to heaven I have always wanted to live on the earth, the thought of not having my animals around me is heartbreaking, and I love the earth and Jehovah's creation. But I feel a draw or a pull of some sort, it is like I feel I have to be there or I need to be there, I want to yet I'm not sure as yet, I am confused about it, because I don't feel worthy in any way, nor do I feel that I should be going instead of others.

But you see, I don't think it is like being in a position of authority, or kingship, rather I see it as a servant that will help the G/C and that the only reason I feel I want to be there in that work aspect. My joy has changed and I feel I really want to be with Jehovah there but can't really understand why I feel this way.

Maybe I am going insane.[/b]

HI Panda

I also question the wt teaching on who is to partake of the "lord's evening meal" - looking at the passover historically the whole nation of Isreal partook of the lamb's meal and after the nation was taken out of Egypt then the priestly class was selected with seperate rules and regulations to obey - it was made very clear who these selected ones were

i dont find much clarity in the wto policy

i know it has been brought out before of the 2 fold aspect of the passover:

Jesus human sacrifice for the salvation of all mankind which is a binding legal contract
2nd the governing aspect of the Kingdom to come which some will consist of those chosen from mankind to be kings and priests

Every memorial i have attended at the Kingdom Hall has been mater of fact - not very inspiring - it always feels like the tradition of the wto is lacking in power and a formality - like their just going through the motions and devoid of E-motion

Anthony

03-03-2008, 01:48 PM

Why is the Memorial on March 22 this yr? I thought JWs always celebrated according to the Jewish calendar which would make it April 18th. Now it is sandwiched between Christendons celebration of Good Friday and Easter. Their dates being March 21st and March 23rd.[/b]

Jehovah’s Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century. The Jewish day begins at sundown and extends until the following sundown. So Jesus died on the same Jewish calendar day that he instituted the Memorial. The beginning of the month of Nisan was the sunset after the new moon nearest the spring equinox became visible in Jerusalem. The Memorial date is 14 days thereafter. (Thus the date for the Memorial may not coincide with that of the Passover kept by modern-day Jews. Why not? The start of their calendar months is set to coincide with the astronomical new moon, not the visible new moon over Jerusalem, which may come 18 to 30 hours later. Also, most Jews today keep the Passover on Nisan 15, not on the 14th as did Jesus in harmony with what was stated in the Mosaic Law.)

SlaveForJah

03-03-2008, 03:48 PM

<div class='quotemain'>Why is the Memorial on March 22 this yr? I thought JWs always celebrated according to the Jewish calendar which would make it April 18th. Now it is sandwiched between Christendons celebration of Good Friday and Easter. Their dates being March 21st and March 23rd.[/b]

Jehovah's Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century. The Jewish day begins at sundown and extends until the following sundown. So Jesus died on the same Jewish calendar day that he instituted the Memorial. The beginning of the month of Nisan was the sunset after the new moon nearest the spring equinox became visible in Jerusalem. The Memorial date is 14 days thereafter. (Thus the date for the Memorial may not coincide with that of the Passover kept by modern-day Jews. Why not? The start of their calendar months is set to coincide with the astronomical new moon, not the visible new moon over Jerusalem, which may come 18 to 30 hours later. Also, most Jews today keep the Passover on Nisan 15, not on the 14th as did Jesus in harmony with what was stated in the Mosaic Law.)

[/b][/quote]

Hello Anthony, and welcome.

Thank you for that interesting information. Is that a quote from somewhere? Anyhow, though that does present a reason for the placement of the Memorial within the Gregorian Calendar System, the information you've shown only allows for a differential of 18 to 30 hours, and possibly an additional 24 hours if Passover is celbrated on Nisan 15. I am curious, do you (or anyone) know why this year the difference is 27 days, or 648 hours between the modern Jewish Passover celebration and our placement of the Memorial?

Thank you again for your informative post.

May Jehovah God, the God of all Comfort, bless you this day. I pray you find fine fellowship here.

Agape

SlaveForJah

Anthony

03-03-2008, 05:17 PM

SlaveForJah

03-17-2008, 11:33 PM

<div class='quotemain'>Why is the Memorial on March 22 this yr? I thought JWs always celebrated according to the Jewish calendar which would make it April 18th. Now it is sandwiched between Christendons celebration of Good Friday and Easter. Their dates being March 21st and March 23rd.[/b]

Jehovah's Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century. The Jewish day begins at sundown and extends until the following sundown. So Jesus died on the same Jewish calendar day that he instituted the Memorial. The beginning of the month of Nisan was the sunset after the new moon nearest the spring equinox became visible in Jerusalem. The Memorial date is 14 days thereafter. (Thus the date for the Memorial may not coincide with that of the Passover kept by modern-day Jews. Why not? The start of their calendar months is set to coincide with the astronomical new moon, not the visible new moon over Jerusalem, which may come 18 to 30 hours later. Also, most Jews today keep the Passover on Nisan 15, not on the 14th as did Jesus in harmony with what was stated in the Mosaic Law.)

[/b][/quote]

Ok, so this has still been bothering me. Why are we not celebrating the Memorial on the full moon? It has always, at least in my past recollections, been observed the night of the full moon. This year it is to be the night AFTER.

I have two thoughts...first, the above quote from the reasoning book says that Nisan 1 would be reckoned from the newing of the moon NEAREST the spring equinox. I had always thought that Nisan 1 would be reckoned by the newing of the moon AFTER the spring equinox. Now even if we take the new moon NEAREST the vernal equinox, that does not reconcile the discrepancy between observance 14 days later (on the full moon) and FIFTEEN days later (Nisan 15, the day AFTER the full moon).

Secondly, why are the Jews celebrating Passover in April? Are they not aware of their own methods of calendular reckoning? I'm sure they are. So, why the discrepancy?

Regardless of which month is correct, March or April (and it seems that the Jewish leap year is this year, meaning that Adar I and Adar II will both be in effect, followed by Nisan, which would move the Nisan 14 date to April), why is the observance not 14 days after the newing of the moon?

Puzzled

SlaveForJah

Candace

03-18-2008, 03:12 PM

According to timeanddate.com (http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/monthly.html?month=4&year=2008&country=34) Nisan 14 falls on April 19th this year.

I found some information which explains why Passover is being celebrated on Nisan 15/April 20th.

The Passover and the Lord's Evening Meal (http://www.2001translation.com/Passover.htm)

When we first started this document, we thought that we knew quite a bit about the Passover, but after much research and many letters from readers, we realized that few of us actually understood the times, dates, and significances involved.

What most call ‘the day of Passover’ isn’t really a day at all; it’s a seven-day festival. For notice the first instructions from God on this, as found at Exodus 12:2, 3, 5-8 (LXX), ‘This will be your first month. It is to be the first one [in your] year. So tell the whole gathering of the children of Israel that on the tenth day of this month, each man should select a lamb (depending on the size of his family) for his household … So, choose a perfect male, yearling lamb from [your herd] of lambs and kids, and keep it nearby until the fourteenth day of this month. Then the whole group of the children of Israel will slaughter it that evening. And they will gather the blood and put it on the top and both sides of the doorframes of the houses where they will be eating [the lamb]. Then that night, they will roast the flesh over a fire and eat it with yeast-free bread and bitter herbs.’

And we read in verses 15 and 16, ‘Now, you will eat yeast-free bread for seven days. And starting on the first day, you must remove all yeast from your homes. And if someone eats yeast between the first and seventh days, that person must be destroyed in Israel. The first day will be called holy, and the seventh day will be your holy day. You aren’t to do any hired work then. The only work that you may do will be the things that you need to [survive].’

So from the above, we can see that the Passover started after sundown on Nisan 14, and that’s when the Israelites were to start eating a meal with yeast-free bread, which they were to do every day for seven days. However, the lamb was to be sacrificed late the following afternoon, and then eaten after sundown on Nisan 15, which is when God’s messenger brought destruction upon Egypt’s firstborn. So, although the Passover festival ran for seven days (until the 21st), the actual Passover happened on Nisan 15.

Thereafter, God’s people apparently gave names to each of these days, and Nisan 15 was called Passover, but Nisan 14, which was the ‘holy day,’ was referred to as the Day of Preparation. It was on this day that Jesus instituted his ‘evening meal,’ and he as ‘God’s Lamb’ was slaughtered. We can clearly see this from the following scriptures:

Matthew 27:62, 63 – Then the next day, after the Preparation, the Chief Priests and Pharisees gathered and came before Pilate, saying, ‘Lord, we remembered that while he was alive that impostor said, Yet, in three days I will be raised.’

John 18:28 – Early the next morning, they led Jesus from Caiaphas’ [home] to the Governor’s Palace, but they didn’t go inside, because they didn’t want to become unclean (so they could eat the Passover).

John 19:14 – Now, it was about the sixth hour of the day of Preparation for the Passover. And [Pilate] said to the Judeans, ‘See, your King!’

Yet, the accounts in Matthew, Mark, and Luke would seem to contradict the above scriptures and indicate that the day Jesus told his disciples to prepare for the Passover, was in fact the day of Preparation. However, notice that no lamb was mentioned as being slaughtered, and the accounts don’t speak of a lamb being eaten at the meal, for Jesus himself was to become the lamb that was to be slaughtered on the following afternoon.

Also, remember that the day of Preparation was the holy day, and thus a Sabbath; so Jews would typically prepare for this first meal of yeast-free bread, bitter herbs, and wine on the previous afternoon, and that was when they were to remove all the yeast from their homes.

But why did Jesus say at Luke 22:15, ‘I really wanted to eat this Passover with you before I suffer,’ if the Passover was the following day? Because this was the first Passover meal of seven that would be eaten that week… it just wasn’t the one that involved eating a lamb. For, due to a lack of refrigeration, meat wasn’t common at all meals back then. However, eating bread with some sort of ‘sop’ (olive oil?) was apparently common.

So, notice that this understanding hasn’t really changed anything, it just gives us a better idea why the first day of Passover (Preparation) was a ‘holy day,’ why no lamb was mentioned as being eaten during Jesus’ last supper, and why it was appropriate for him to be slaughtered on the following afternoon (when the Passover lambs were slaughtered). Therefore, the appropriate day for memorializing Jesus death remains Nisan 14, though perhaps there is a case for celebrating it every evening from Nisan 14 -21.

But why this date (or these dates)? Because Paul wrote at 1 Corinthians 5:7, ‘Clean out that old yeast so you can be something new that isn’t fermenting, because the Anointed One (who is our Passover) has been sacrificed.’

So, as Passover was the week during which God accepted Israel as ‘His inheritance;’ and when He saved their firstborn with the blood of a lamb; and when He saved them from Egypt; the blood of the ‘Lamb of God’ was shed to inaugurate the New Sacred Agreement. And Jesus himself selected the first day of Passover to celebrate the Memorial of his sacrifice.

But I still have no explanation for why the WTBTS chose March 22 for celebrating the Lord's Evening Meal this year. I'll see if I can find something.

Candace

03-18-2008, 03:14 PM

After re-reading your question, I don't think I answered any of your questions. :blush: Back to the drawing board.

Cephalon

03-18-2008, 04:31 PM

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Why is the Memorial on March 22 this yr? I thought JWs always celebrated according to the Jewish calendar which would make it April 18th. Now it is sandwiched between Christendons celebration of Good Friday and Easter. Their dates being March 21st and March 23rd.[/b]

Jehovah's Witnesses observe the Memorial after sundown on Nisan 14, according to the reckoning of the Jewish calendar that was common in the first century. The Jewish day begins at sundown and extends until the following sundown. So Jesus died on the same Jewish calendar day that he instituted the Memorial. The beginning of the month of Nisan was the sunset after the new moon nearest the spring equinox became visible in Jerusalem. The Memorial date is 14 days thereafter. (Thus the date for the Memorial may not coincide with that of the Passover kept by modern-day Jews. Why not? The start of their calendar months is set to coincide with the astronomical new moon, not the visible new moon over Jerusalem, which may come 18 to 30 hours later. Also, most Jews today keep the Passover on Nisan 15, not on the 14th as did Jesus in harmony with what was stated in the Mosaic Law.)

[/b][/quote]

Ok, so this has still been bothering me. Why are we not celebrating the Memorial on the full moon? It has always, at least in my past recollections, been observed the night of the full moon. This year it is to be the night AFTER.

I have two thoughts...first, the above quote from the reasoning book says that Nisan 1 would be reckoned from the newing of the moon NEAREST the spring equinox. I had always thought that Nisan 1 would be reckoned by the newing of the moon AFTER the spring equinox. Now even if we take the new moon NEAREST the vernal equinox, that does not reconcile the discrepancy between observance 14 days later (on the full moon) and FIFTEEN days later (Nisan 15, the day AFTER the full moon).

Secondly, why are the Jews celebrating Passover in April? Are they not aware of their own methods of calendular reckoning? I'm sure they are. So, why the discrepancy?

Regardless of which month is correct, March or April (and it seems that the Jewish leap year is this year, meaning that Adar I and Adar II will both be in effect, followed by Nisan, which would move the Nisan 14 date to April), why is the observance not 14 days after the newing of the moon?

Puzzled

SlaveForJah
[/b][/quote]

I am not sure if I can post this link, If not, Admin or watchman can delete it.

Jewish Calendar (http://studiesintheword.org/jewish_calendar_2008.htm)

SlaveForJah

03-18-2008, 05:39 PM

Candace

03-18-2008, 05:43 PM

Cephalon, thank you so much for posting that link. I didn't realize bringing up this issue for discussion here at home would land me in so much hot water. Thanks for giving me some valuable information.

SlaveForJah

03-18-2008, 05:52 PM

I am not sure if I can post this link, If not, Admin or watchman can delete it.

Jewish Calendar (http://studiesintheword.org/jewish_calendar_2008.htm)[/b]

This information is also very helpful, and it does help to see why the Watchtower chose the earlier date of March instead of April, reckoning solely by the newing of the moon NEAREST, ON or AFTER the Spring Equinox. So, it seems the time frame here is correct.

One question still remains however: Why is the observation of the Lord's Evening Meal being pushed back one day to the day AFTER the full moon? By whatever means of reckoning the months or leap months one uses, and whether or not one chooses to observe the Passover according to the Festival Calendar or the Modern Jewish Leap Year Calendar, the full moon would still constitue the 14th day, or 13 days after the newing of the moon.

This is puzzling to me. Sorry if I seem to be harping on this subject. I know Jehovah will accept our best efforts to serve him in faithfulness, so even if we get the date wrong, it's not necessarily the date being wrong that may or may not be acceptable. But, I think that the only "religious observation" we were commanded to keep, commemorating the single greatest act by a man in all of human history, is very important, and that to the best of our ability we should try to celbrate and commemorate it as Jehovah would have us do, and according to His timetable if at all possible.

At any rate, I am grateful to Jehovah God for the extreme personal sacrifice He made in our behalf, and also that of our Lord Christ Jesus, giving up his life for his friends...the greatest expression of love ever made.

Blessed be Jehovah of Armies and blessed be the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.

Agape

SlaveForJah

Nambo

03-19-2008, 05:24 PM

You can be sure that this piece of scripture will not be read out at the memorial as we all say no to what is placed before us.

48 (http://) “I am the bread of life. 49 (http://) YOUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. 50 (http://) This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 (http://) I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”

52 (http://) Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 (http://) Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 (http://) He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 (http://) for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 (http://) He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 (http://) Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. 58 (http://) This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Eli's Foe

03-20-2008, 07:50 PM

You can be sure that this piece of scripture will not be read out at the memorial as we all say no to what is placed before us.

48 (http://) "I am the bread of life. 49 (http://) YOUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. 50 (http://) This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 (http://) I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world."

52 (http://) Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 (http://) Accordingly Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 (http://) He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 (http://) for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 (http://) He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 (http://) Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. 58 (http://) This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever."[/b]

One of the most telling posts I have seen on any thread in a long time. Thank you Nambo. There is something which gnaws at me when I consider the refusal of Christ's body and blood and the link with the Gnostic refusal of his sacrifice. These scriptures surely tell us something profound, and that there is something profoundly wrong with the WTS doctrine of exclusivity.

EF

billy

03-20-2008, 08:46 PM

I see it the same way EF and Nambo - the jews as a nation all ate the passover meal - and then later on Jehovah choose who was to be priests and kings out of that jewish nation - it only seems logical to me that we are are a spiritual jewish nation and should all be partaking of the new passover and leave it up to Jehovah who is to be choosen as priests and kings

Gabriel

03-20-2008, 09:20 PM

No worries...Jehovah will severley disipline the Watchtower if the understanding is flawed. We need not worry. This is something that we will not be held accountable for. Hey Rob, whats your understanding of the scriptures above and how it relates to the Memorial of Christ?

Candace

03-20-2008, 09:57 PM

I finally found a website that confirms that the new moon was not visible in Jerusalem until March 8th. I don't want to post the link here, in case anyone might find it objectionable, but if you want it just send me a pm.

In conclusion, the date of March 22nd for the Memorial is right on target. :clap: