"relationships"

[Gabriel]

I really hope this doesnt come across the wrong way, but I've been doing a lot of thinking this morning (Dangerous for me) But this time around i been thinking a lot about "Relationships" and to be more specific, a relationship with Father. Is it wrong to want more than what we have now? I mean, can we really call a relationship with Jehovah satisfying? I know we have his word the bible and prayer which we all charish, but is it wrong to want more. right now it just all seems one sided. We pray and we pray and we pray. we read our bibles (Some more than others) and we attend all 5 meetings and yet...to me anyway....I have to be honest.....its not all that satisfying. I mean, we rely on faith and "a feeling" that we have a good relationship. and we wait and see if we hear a subtle voice in our head to see if Father is answering our prayers and hope that voice isnt a demon or shcezsophrenia and we look for more "unsuspecting clues" in ways that Jehovah may answer our prayers in ways me might not have expected. Its a big ballancing act that we have to do to maintain concidering that...well.....doest look like we get a lot in return. Just my thoughts and looking forward to your responses.

ps. Thinking can be a dangerous thing.

[Orchid]

I have often wondered the same thing! I have often wanted some sort of personal answer from Jehovah, that maybe if he finds some favor with me. I often beg in pray to know his ways, and to be close somehow.

But then I start to think, this could never happen for me. Who I am, that Jehovah would respond to, and give answers too?

Has anyone else had the desire to have direct guidance from Jehovah (or even his son)? (not just the bible, you know what I mean?) But who are we to say we deserve this thing. I just feels like a very natural desire for me, to want to do his will.

Just pondering.

[Gabriel]

I have often wondered the same thing! I have often wanted some sort of personal answer from Jehovah, that maybe if he finds some favor with me. I often beg in pray to know his ways, and to be close somehow.

But then I start to think, this could never happen for me. Who I am, that Jehovah would respond to, and give answers too?

Has anyone else had the desire to have direct guidance from Jehovah (or even his son)? (not just the bible, you know what I mean?) But who are we to say we deserve this thing. I just feels like a very natural desire for me, to want to do his will.

Just pondering.[/b]


Yeah, man....I almost feel guilty for this thread. i dont want to come across as ungreatful for what we have "NOW" but sometimes Im desperatly wanting MORE. Sometimes I dont know if the "fuzzy warm feeling" is from Jehovah himself or if I just want it so bad that its in my mind. I dont expect a chorus of angels to come down and minister to me and nore do i expect the heavens to open up and hear jehovah's voice. but if I can have something MORE SURE...more concrete instead of abstract it will do wonders for me. Am I just being selfish. Im open to any reproof any anyone wants to give me some.

[FGM]

[/quote]
Yeah, man....I almost feel guilty for this thread. i dont want to come across as ungreatful for what we have "NOW" but sometimes Im desperatly wanting MORE. Sometimes I dont know if the "fuzzy warm feeling" is from Jehovah himself or if I just want it so bad that its in my mind. I dont expect a chorus of angels to come down and minister to me and nore do i expect the heavens to open up and hear jehovah's voice. but if I can have something MORE SURE...more concrete instead of abstract it will do wonders for me. Am I just being selfish. Im open to any reproof any anyone wants to give me some.
[/quote]

*****
I think it is natural to feel this way.
We have many examples in the Bible of those who were used by Jehovah getting some kind of signs or communication from him. The early christians also were able to see the outworking of Holy Spirit and the gifts that it endowed to spread the good news about Jesus.
But when we think about it, how many were privileged to have this experience?
Can we say that all who have worshipped Jehovah in the past have had some kind of divine revelation or sign from Jehovah?
It seems not. Who Jehovah chooses, so to speak to communicate with is not something we can even think about understanding. However, he tells us in Psalm 65:2 that he is the hearer of prayer. I know that sometimes we may want more but I am confident that Jehovah does hear our prayers ( as I am sure you are) and that he does answer them in his own way. Is this enough to develop a relationship with Jehovah? As you said something
"MORE SURE...more concrete" would be nice. But what would do it for us? Would we recognise it as such?
What kind of thing would make us say "Yeah..that's it! I don't need any more than that".
I sometimes think about Gideon and his fleece. That was a concrete sign that Jehovah was with him.
What would do it for you?
Just my thoughts.

[Deborah]

Excellent, FGM. We all have our own relationship with Jehovah. What is our own fleece?...we really might be answered.

Love, Deborah

[panda]

I have learned one thing about this topic, is that when I give of myself or reach out to the brothers in need or put myself out for someone, show love for Jehovah's sheep, I am rewarded, the more I give the closer I feel to Jehovah the more he blesses me to want to do more.

I feel that is what it is in being or drawing closer to Jehovah and he to us is the truth in to Love God with whole heart and our neighbor as ourselves, especially those related in the faith. We show we truly love Jehovah by loving one another. It is not easy, but I try to apply the scriptures on forgiveness, not being judgmental, and all those things concerning getting along in love.

When I have a problem with someone or I get upset and angry, I feel so down, when I ask Jehovah to help me, I read his word and try and apply to the best of my ability, then I feel Jehovah is so with me and near me, my prayers have been answered.

We will never have that complete fulfillment and joy until after Satan is bound, and we have a clean organization, but we definitely have a heap now, and the way Jehovah answers us is usually by giving us more endurance, more love and patience all the qualities of the fruitage of the spirit which makes us happier and closer to our Father.
Just my thoughts. :Zwarte Roos:

[vonstauffenberg]

A clean organisation will come (1 peter 4:17)

[Jeshurun]

A clean organisation will come (1 peter 4:17)[/b]

Yes it will come, and it will come before Armageddon, and it will not be called "The Watchtower".

2 “And the nations will certainly see your righteousness, [O woman,] and all kings your glory. And you will actually be called by a new name, which the very mouth of Jehovah will designate. -Isaiah 62:2

Welcome to the forum vonstauffenberg!

:Love:
Jesh

[Berean]

"Love never fails. But whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with." - 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

We have something very special, something that the early servants of God didn't have: the complete Scriptures, serving as a guide for us. Of course there are still many situations where the right choice isn't so obvious, and it's natural to want a clear-cut word of advice from our Father. Sometimes we do get that advice, but not by a voice from heaven. We read something, hear something, suddenly get an idea. Jehovah influences us in subtle ways. And sometimes, it's good for us to figure things out through our own conscience. What use would our service be if everything we do was whispered into our ear? Sometimes we need to take a stand ourselves, to show God that we serve him of our own accord.

[Candace]

I agree with Panda, that when you are doing things for others you get that good feeling inside. But what happens when you are at a low point in your life and you don't feel like you can be of help to anybody? In fact, what if you're feeling so low that you stay away from others because you're too sad to be around them, or too full of anxiety to be around them? Well, Jehovah's still going to reach out to you.

You can feel Jehovah's love by looking around you. When you are at the lowest of your lows, go somewhere outdoors, away from the things of man. Find a peaceful quiet place. Look around you. What do you see? Do you see tall pine trees dancing in the breeze? Do you see some squirrels chasing each other and playing tag? Do you hear the birds singing? Can you feel the warmth of the sun on your face?

During one of my lowest of lows I was down in Portugal. I look back and think how Jehovah made that trip possible, and what a gift he gave to me. That was a little over a year ago, and I happened to find this website at that time. At my lowest of lows, when I thought I had lost everything that ever mattered to me, and my faith too, Jehovah showed me I hadn't lost anything. He gave me the gift of insight....by using other people to help me find out the truth about the truth. He gave me a new hope for the future....by using other people to direct me to the appropriate scriptures.

When I would go down to the beach and watch the waves coming in, and feel the breeze on my face, and see the sun glinting off the waves, I never felt closer to Jehovah than I did then, I felt like he was right there with me. The sky was an incredible azure blue, the ocean a deeper blue. I looked at the curve of the horizon and wondered why people ever thought the world was flat! I looked at all the beautiful seashells washing up on shore and thought about how generous Jehovah is with his creation. He not only gives us things in abundance, but he makes it all so interesting and beautiful.

I have those memories to look back on any time I need to, but he's also giving me new good experiences that help me to cope with present circumstances. Watching big, fat, fluffy snowflakes fall from the sky. Watching my daughter climb up a big slope so she can take an adventurous ride down in her sled. Seeing a beautiful sunset, something so beautiful only Jehovah could paint it.

People will tend to disappoint you. They rarely live up to our expectations (like we rarely live up to theirs!). But Jehovah will never disappoint you. He has already given us so much to enjoy. We just have to take the time to enjoy it.

Yes, it can get very frustrating waking up in this system of things every day. How much longer do we have to wait? Can we make it? Some days it feels like it would just be easier to give up, but then something happens and we figure out how to keep on putting one foot in front of the other. Jehovah will help you find your way. He always will.

James 1:5-8 "So, if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."

[Jade]

Thank you candace. Very often I too feel like Gabriel does. I always worry that I'm not doing the right thing and displeasing Jehovah and I feel like I want a sign of approval from him. You are not alone in your thoughts brother.

[Reader]

Yes, we currently live in times that are very different from some of those we read about in the bible. At this time we have the society writing in the WT saying that we live in very momentous times. 'This is the most important time of history,' they tell us. 'Look around and see all the signs.' Unfortunately, it is so momentous that 99% of the world's population can't see it.

Back at the time of Moses and Pharaoh, it was a little different. 'Did you read in the paper about the frogs?' one egyptian said to another, 'It could be quite the problem in a few years if the government doesn't address it. Somebody gave me a WatchHut magazine (Tower not yet completed) and it said this could be a sign of the end of the egyptian control of Isreal, but that doesn't add up to me.'

'I was watching TV about this darkness thing, since I couldn't see to read the paper, and it seems this is nothing more than the annual darkness festival. No big deal.'

Egyptian soldier to Pharaoh: 'The last time that we defeated and enemy that was protected by a pillar of fire we just crawled on our bellies under it.'

Israelite to neighbour: 'I think I'm going to go for a walk. This way looks clear.'

But rewind the timeframe for a while. Think of the lowly Israelite slave 2 years earlier. 'Bricks. Bricks. Bricks. I really thought that Moses guy was our ticket out of here. Then he just disappears. Gone. He's not coming back now. I was just a kid when all that happened. Maybe another guy in another time...'

Times will change again. Hopefully within our lifetimes. We will see salvation. And before then we will see great and powerful signs. Doubts will be erased. It will be onerous, but it will be head-lifting as well. "Wow, nobody's ever seen THAT before."

Regards

Reader

[Gabriel]

I sometimes think about Gideon and his fleece. That was a concrete sign that Jehovah was with him.
What would do it for you?
Just my thoughts.[/b]

Wow, what a thought provoking question FGM! My "Golden fleece" for me would be Jehovah providing a clue that he hasnt givin up on me or that Im "salvageable" I've read scriptures of certain ones in the past that Father had encouraged and gave them that extra "umph" to continue. But I always think that none of that applies to me. That it must've been something special about THEM that made Jehovah want to reach out. Maybe im just to tough on myself I dont know. I could never feel that i relate in anyway shape or form to those in the scriptures that Father had reached out to....well.....perhaps David.....interesting guy wasnt he?

Candace what a beautiful post. I can definately see how going to a lonely place to just observe nature would bring one closer to God and perhaps thats what i need to do more of. Satan has made sure that the world is filled with the latest gadgets and commercialisim along with the push to just --go go go go-- That one is so stressed out that they dont have time to give these things a secound thought let alone a first one. Have you ever tried to find a quiet moment to go out and observe the stars and have a nice talk with Father? Well...Satan has polutted taht too hasnt he? He obveously must've rememberd Some back in biblical times who were in awe of God's glory by simply "Looking up" at the night sky and were so moved by the beauty of the starry heavens that they gave Jehovah praise. Yeah, Satan must've remebered that very well so today he has made sure that there is a light post in every corner..in every city.....even in the the places where you wouldnt think a light post would be. Now that I think about it Im sure the reason why those in generations past were so RELIGEOUS. They didnt have all the things that we have today that distracts us from Jehovahs beauty and Glory. Things were a lot more simple, so unlike today. One thing is for sure. I really need to presivere in prayer regardless how I feel or precieve things to be. and just hope that somewhere down the road Father will allow me to find what Im looking for...-Him-

[Deborah]

I told myself not to reply to that post last night. I got so excited about Gideon and the fleece, that I quickly read about it in the bible and posted. Then spent time sleeping in anxiety. I hope everyone understands that I am not suggesting that we put Jehovah to the test.
I am trying to express that we have our own needs and desires and we cultivate that with Jehovah. I can look back into my life and honestly say that Jehovah has helped me or protected me. I honestly feel that Satan would allow me to suffer as much as possible and Jehovah protects me from this suffering, only allowing some trials to excercise endurance on my part. Suceeded these trials is my fleece.

Proverbs 8:35 For the one finding me will certainly find life and gets goodwill from Jehovah.
A definition of goodwill- a friendly hope that something will suceed.

As I go through my trials and tribulations, I excercise Jehovahs goodwill.

Another point that I would like to bring out. Remember our bible story book? The picture of Cain and Able with their sacrifices. Do you ever make gifts to Jehovah to cultivate your love on a personal level? The society teaches that the ministry is our sacrificial gift. I personally think that using our personal talents to Jehovah in private is our personal gift. Have you ever written a poem, played an instrument, or went out to do something for someone in need with the purpose of "gifting" Jehovah? I think ewatchman uses talents as gifts to Jehovah. What gifts are you giving from your heart?

Candace, thank you for your wonderful story.

Love, Deborah

[DoubtingThomas]

What a wonderfully thought provoking topic you started here Gabriel. You seem to have a knack for starting some excellent topics that get me to thinking (for me that also can be a dangerous thing). After reading everyone's thoughts on the subject (especially those of Candace) I have to agree that I too sometimes wonder about my personal relationship with Jehovah God. To me it ebbs and flows like the tides of the oceans. At times I feel very close to my God, and at other times he feels very distant to me. When he feels distant is when I try even harder to "Draw close to God".
<div align="left">(James 4:8) ⁸ Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. . .</div>

[Orchid]

I do that also with nature, its almost taking my breath away every time. I am a musician and that is something I am always focused on nature.

It makes me feel close to Jehovah, but .... with the way I think, I feel its just one-side, but that&#39;s just how my stupid brain wants to think.

It&#39;s me appreciating Jehovah, not necessarily him realizing I am appreciating him. I dunno, maybe I&#39;m just thinking silly.

[Candace]

The way I look at it is that Jehovah used his energy to create things. Before creation began, nothing existed except Jehovah. So, when he started creating his only source material was himself, right? When I look at the things of creation I see not only an expression of Jehovah&#39;s love, thoughtfulness, wisdom, or sense of humor, but I can also touch something that came from Jehovah, and he can touch me. Like when the sun warms my face, or when there&#39;s a cool breeze on a hot day, it makes me think of Jehovah actually reaching out and touching me. Because if it weren&#39;t for Jehovah creating these things, and putting all these things into motion, I wouldn&#39;t be experiencing how good it feels to have the sun warm me up or a breeze cool me down.

Recently I toured a rock and mineral exhibit at a museum in a coastal town. Some Finnish guy started this collection many years ago and donated it to the city of Kokkola. It was an amazing collection, all kinds of exquisite shapes, colors, patterns, textures, etc. Looking at some of the beautiful specimens, it made me think how Jehovah has abundantly blessed the earth with all kinds of resources. One of these days we&#39;re going to be able to dig up our own gemstones, and have our own collection of Australian opals, purple amethysts, or whatever we like. And it will be free! Well, free as long as you put the effort into digging it up, or mining it out of a rock. But even now we can obtain a few specimens of gemstones and hold them in our hand, feel the smooth surface, or examine the intricate veins of a piece of turquoise. I guess for me that&#39;s one of the ways I feel closer to Jehovah.

As far as having his approval, though, or feeling like I&#39;m in an approved state......I think that&#39;s not something realistic to have. We can&#39;t live up to his expectations, only try to. Every day we&#39;re going to fail. Some days we have bigger failures than others. I could let my failures get me down and make me question whether or not there&#39;s a point in even trying, but I know that Jehovah doesn&#39;t look at things that way. He knows we are weak and pitiful. He knows we don&#39;t amount to much. But he loves us anyway. He loves us so much that in spite of how much we are failures he&#39;s promised to turn things around for us.

He also knows that we were born with inherited sin. If the circumstances were different, and we weren&#39;t born with sin, yeah, his expectations of us would be a lot higher! So for now realize that all we can do is try to do our best. And when we fail (which we will), don&#39;t exclude yourself from the value of Jesus&#39; ransom sacrifice.

(John 3:16-18) 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

All Jehovah is asking us to do is have some faith. And Jesus even showed us we only need to have a tiny bit of faith.

(Matthew 17:20) . . .If YOU have faith the size of a mustard grain, YOU will say to this mountain, ‘Transfer from here to there,’ and it will transfer, and nothing will be impossible for YOU.”

So take heart, brothers and sisters, you have Jehovah&#39;s promise that he&#39;s going to deliver us from our present situation.

(Romans 8:26) . . .In like manner the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the [problem of] what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered.

And Jehovah has all the bases covered.

[Deborah]

Candace, that is a very beautiful piece. Thank you.

With Appreciation, Deborah

[Candace]

Candace, that is a very beautiful piece. Thank you.

With Appreciation, Deborah[/b]


Gracias mi hermana. :icon_redface:

[douglas]

for what (little) it&#39;s worth:
there are times when i cannot even begin to pray: times when i am lying in bed on my back, unable to sleep, eyes open, and it is all i can do to look upward and realize that the Author of all reality,who created kittens and the stars and quantum physics, who knows my deepest shames and meager virtues better than i do, knows at that moment exactly and completely all that i am feeling. and i raise my eyes meekly to a Person of such infinite violent power and unparalleled and undeserved kindness that i can only bite my lip as the tears well and burn my cheeks: even without speaking aloud or even in my heart, my spirit groans and i know that he knows.
if He isn&#39;t really there, i am (we are) schizophrenic. if He is, i need no more.

[tortas]

for what (little) it&#39;s worth:
there are times when i cannot even begin to pray: times when i am lying in bed on my back, unable to sleep, eyes open, and it is all i can do to look upward and realize that the Author of all reality,who created kittens and the stars and quantum physics, who knows my deepest shames and meager virtues better than i do, knows at that moment exactly and completely all that i am feeling. and i raise my eyes meekly to a Person of such infinite violent power and unparalleled and undeserved kindness that i can only bite my lip as the tears well and burn my cheeks: even without speaking aloud or even in my heart, my spirit groans and i know that he knows.
if He isn&#39;t really there, i am (we are) schizophrenic. if He is, i need no more.[/b]

just throwing something silly ur way

roses are red
violets are blue
ima schizophrenic
and so am i

[Molly]

Dear Douglas -

Your expressions were so completely poignant that, if that is the way you feel as you lie there, I am totally confidant that your heavenly Father is groaning along with you. He is the hearer of our prayers, even the silent ones.

Tortas -

You cracked me up! That was so funny. I&#39;m still giggling. It made my morning.

Molly

[Nambo]

One Brother, a good hearted brother, clean and free from all temptations, he feels close to Jehovah, recieves Gods Spirit in abundance, and cannot forsee any situation where he wont end up living a perfect life for ever in paradise, with a lovely wife, a lovely home, and all the blessings his heavenly father will bestow on him.

He Loves Jehovah and puts 10 silver coins in the collection box.

Another Brother, doesnt feel so close to Jehovah, he tries but without the help of Holy Spirit, his temptations can prove more irrisistable, though he tries he feels unworthy, so unworthy in fact, that he sees his future being terminated soon because of not quite reaching the mark.

Still, it doesnt stop him loving Jehovah, even if hes not loved back, so he puts 10 silver coins in the collection box.

Nothing at all wrong with the first righteous brother.

But who gives the best reply to Satans taunts to Jehovah?

[James]

One Brother, a good hearted brother, clean and free from all temptations, he feels close to Jehovah, recieves Gods Spirit in abundance, and cannot forsee any situation where he wont end up living a perfect life for ever in paradise, with a lovely wife, a lovely home, and all the blessings his heavenly father will bestow on him.

He Loves Jehovah and puts 10 silver coins in the collection box.

Another Brother, doesnt feel so close to Jehovah, he tries but without the help of Holy Spirit, his temptations can prove more irrisistable, though he tries he feels unworthy, so unworthy in fact, that he sees his future being terminated soon because of not quite reaching the mark.

Still, it doesnt stop him loving Jehovah, even if hes not loved back, so he puts 10 silver coins in the collection box.

Nothing at all wrong with the first righteous brother.

But who gives the best reply to Satans taunts to Jehovah?[/b]

James 1:5-8 "So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways."


Brotherly love,
James

[SlaveForJah]

for what (little) it&#39;s worth:
there are times when i cannot even begin to pray: times when i am lying in bed on my back, unable to sleep, eyes open, and it is all i can do to look upward and realize that the Author of all reality,who created kittens and the stars and quantum physics, who knows my deepest shames and meager virtues better than i do, knows at that moment exactly and completely all that i am feeling. and i raise my eyes meekly to a Person of such infinite violent power and unparalleled and undeserved kindness that i can only bite my lip as the tears well and burn my cheeks: even without speaking aloud or even in my heart, my spirit groans and i know that he knows.
if He isn&#39;t really there, i am (we are) schizophrenic. if He is, i need no more.[/b]



Dear Douglas -

Your expressions were so completely poignant that, if that is the way you feel as you lie there, I am totally confidant that your heavenly Father is groaning along with you. He is the hearer of our prayers, even the silent ones.

Molly[/b]

Wow! I have to second Molly&#39;s thoughts here, douglas. That was an amazing post. It seems to me to describe the type of deep, abiding faith that Jehovah delights in. It reminds me of what our Lord went through in his trials. Paul speaks of this in his epistle to the Hebrews.

"7 In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear." - Hebrews 5:7

Thank you again.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[take me to paradise]

<div class='quotemain'>for what (little) it&#39;s worth:
there are times when i cannot even begin to pray: times when i am lying in bed on my back, unable to sleep, eyes open, and it is all i can do to look upward and realize that the Author of all reality,who created kittens and the stars and quantum physics, who knows my deepest shames and meager virtues better than i do, knows at that moment exactly and completely all that i am feeling. and i raise my eyes meekly to a Person of such infinite violent power and unparalleled and undeserved kindness that i can only bite my lip as the tears well and burn my cheeks: even without speaking aloud or even in my heart, my spirit groans and i know that he knows.
if He isn&#39;t really there, i am (we are) schizophrenic. if He is, i need no more.[/b]

just throwing something silly ur way

roses are red
violets are blue
ima schizophrenic
and so am i
[/b][/quote]


I have felt the same feelings & thoughts as you describe as I am laying in bed with tear filled eyes. :Zwarte Roos: