Baptism

[sayjay3]

Are the only ones to make it through the great tribulation those who are baptized by Jehovah's Witnesses? If so, does a person have to preach what they belive when it is against what I believe? I find this to be diffcult, because I don't believe Jesus was made king in1914.

[Jeshurun]

Are the only ones to make it through the great tribulation those who are baptized by Jehovah's Witnesses? If so, does a person have to preach what they belive when it is against what I believe? I find this to be diffcult, because I don't believe Jesus was made king in1914.[/b]

Welcome to the forum sayjay.

Since it seems most likely that the Watchtower will cease to exist before Jehovah refines and recollects his people, the corporate umbrella won't be around to protect anyone, so it's a moot point.

It's a bit of a walk on the highwire to preach the good news while dancing around the 1914 issue, but many have proven that it can be done.

I would just stick with the real issues and try not to regurgitate the "we will watch the tribulation from the sidelines of spiritual paradise" routine. That would be a false witness displeasing to Jehovah.

Agape,
Jesh

[Deborah]

Dear Jeshuran,

Why do you think that the Watchtower ceases to exist before Jehovah starts to collect his people? I don't think I see it that way. But then again, I don't understand everything. Would you please show me this in a simple way? Some parts of the prophecies seem clearer to me than others. I could really use some help.

With Christian Love, Deborah

[Reader]

Hello Deborah.

Here is a link to watchman's essay on this. It should explain this for you.

Fall of Watchtower (http://e-watchman.com/essays/collapse-of-watchtower.html)

regards

Reader

[Deborah]

Thanks Reader,

That's so sweet. But I didn't understand it the first time. Some parts seemed to make perfect sense and some parts just fade out, with a What? (Not out of discord...just kind of a blah, blah, blah. It just doesn't enter in my brain) I figured I'd read it again, but I have still have questions.
So how do you see it? I am not on the attack, I am being sincere. Sharing is caring.

Love, Deborah

[Reader]

Hey, no worries.

Let's nutshell it first, then get to the nitty gritty as it arises.

Daniel describe two incursions into the 'land' of Jehovah's people. Daniel 11:40 describes the first one. It is also describe in more detail by the first part of the book of Joel.

Jehovah describes what is upsetting him in many parts of Isaiah and Jeremiah. This first attack is sanctioned by Jehovah, and is meant as a punishment for sins. It is to cleanse His people. This causes the fall of his people.

Further reading of Joel describes how this humiliation makes Jehovah feel. Joel 2:19 tells us His future response to His people's repentant attitude ". 19 And Jehovah will answer and say to his people, ‘Here I am sending to YOU the grain and the new wine and the oil, and YOU people will certainly be satisfied with it; and I shall not make YOU anymore a reproach among the nations. "

But the King of the North does not get this memo. He again attacks, Dan 11:44,45 shows that he attacks God's people again. This time it is not sanctioned by Jehovah, and so there is no helper for him. This precipitates Armageddon, which is described later at Joel 3:13-17.

So, according to Joel, the sequence of events are as follows:
Attack by the 'northerner' with success - blessed by Jehovah
Scattering, then time of repentance
Forgiveness by Jehovah, regathering, time of prophesying
Day of Jehovah

Hope this helps a bit

Reader

[Orchid]

So are you saying at this time, will we somehow be able to get baptized and be acceptable before Jehovah? I understand what you are saying about the end time, but still, what about being baptized?

[FutureMan]

Hello all this is my thought on baptism.

What ever our decision is as how we do get baptized and who baptizes us we must make sure that we are baptized in harmony with God's word particularly at Matthew 28:19 which states "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,___"

That is in God's name Jehovah, and of his son Jesus Christ as our means for salvation, and the HolySpirit. This is as far as I understand, the only proper way to be baptized. We should not have any vows that go outside of this. To do so would make our baptism as a true christian invalid.

In this particular case this commandment was given to eleven of his Apostles. As far as Jesus was concerned these ones were qualified, to preach and teach and baptize other people to make disciples. In (Acts 2:41) over 3000 were baptized by the eleven apostles or under their supervision and authority, after the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them. Would have being a very busy day for them. Noticed the time span from the time that he preached to the crowd to the time they got baptized. Yes as the scriptures states after they heard this they repented and embraced the truth or in other words they recognized the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the only means for salvation they repented of there past sins and dedicated themselves to Jehovah God and then got baptized in the same day. There was no six months study period and a period of time in which they spent time as an unbaptized publisher before they eventually got baptized. Admittedly these ones were Jews and Jewish proselytes who were living in Judea, and already were versed in the Mosaic Law, and had some knowledge of previous bible prophecy relating to the messiah. so this would have given them a prerequisite to being baptized.

Another example we have is of Philip the evangelizer at (Acts 8:26-39) Here we see where the Ethiopian eunuch was already a proselyte Jew and he was returning from Jerusalem after having gone there to worship Jehovah. this was when Philip by means of God's Angel intercepted him as the Ethiopian was reading one of the passages from the scrolls of Isaiah. It appears that he also was baptized in that same day after having Jesus Christ expained as the messiah, and explaining about the ransom sacrifice, and his resurrection, to him.

In both these cases they had the authority of Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit to Baptize other people as Christians.

First criteria of a proper baptism is to be baptized by someone who is a qualified baptized Christian worshiper of Jehovah God and who is under the authority of the holy spirit whether directly or indirectly under supervision of christians who have God's holy spirit.

Second is that he needs to be authorized to do so either by God's holy spirit as was the case with John the Baptist who was groomed for this purpose by Jehovah God, or one of his anointed ones, or a group of christians who are authorized by means of holy spirit and under the authority of the anointed ones and the headship of Jesus Christ.

My two pennies worth from FutureMan

[azul]

Are the only ones to make it through the great tribulation those who are baptized by Jehovah's Witnesses? If so, does a person have to preach what they belive when it is against what I believe? I find this to be diffcult, because I don't believe Jesus was made king in1914.[/b]

Hay

That is an awesome question - I think i can answer this one using the bible .

Jesus said that the fulfillment of the law is to love Jehovah your God and love your neighbor as yourself.

He seems to miss the words , be a baptized witness . Silly Master Teacher Jesus , gone goffey and missed the words baptized as one of Jehovah's witnesses

So to add to that information -- I have a friend that i used to work out with. His name was Jimmy Smits ,, Jim was awesome , he would use Jehovah's name and preach to every person that came into the weight room .

I talked with him several times and really , I don't think there is any way Jehovah would not consider him an asset in the new world. Jim Is a witness, not a babtized one but a witness none the less.

Please brothers and sisters, when ever a question like this comes up think about what God has done in the past -- the ninivites were not witnesses. Rehab and her family were not witnesses ,, but yet Jehovah saved them

The bible indicates that if you love God -- And Preach about Gods new government you might be able to make it through the tribulation

PS Is this not evident for most students of the bible?

[shikinah]

Hi Azul,
I have the same problem, ive known the truth 28 years but have never been baptised. And thats because i wanted to do it and never fall away, and the things i saw i which was covered up knowbody could answer. Now that i understand why things are the way they are, i'd love to get baptised, but going through the question book etc is going to be hard. Why cant it be like in bible times where people confessed their sins and went into the nearest river. Im sure all they had to do is confess to Jehovah the acceptance that Jesus was the son of god. But im sure i read somewhere that the wording has changed during the baptism, that they use the word watchtower or something like that. I know that Jesus did say, you have to be born again, i wonder when the organisation starts to fall, will jehovah pour out his holy spirit upon the loyal ones, and if this would represent the true baptism?

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Eyes & Ears]

Good Monday Morning All,

I have two questions regarding those who get baptised now.

On Page 215 of the 2005 OM Book it says this for the second question as you
all know by now.


Do you undesrstand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?



My first question is what does the society really mean when they say
GOD'S SPIRIT-DIRECTED?

My second question is, how serious is this really to Jehovah? What is this question really asking of these new ones who are baptized under this second question. Am I over-reacting again over words?

I'm just trying to sort that out. It has been on my mind for awhile.

Thanking you all in advance.

Sisterly Love,

E & E

[shikinah]

Hello Eyes & Ears,
No i didnt know that it said God's spirit-directed organization.
Is this is what is actually said while your getting baptised? Is there anything which states that "i am now accepting Jesus Christ as my saviour" ?
Ive never seen a baptismal book, i havnt any idea of what the questions are either.
Its taken me all this time to understand and search for truth, and its now spirit directed organisation not even holy spirit guided lol.
And its in association? not the whole organisation of Jehovahs witnesses.

Thank you for that sister :)

Elizabeth

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi Shakinah,

Here are the questions as they are now:


1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins
and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one
of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spisrit-directed organization?



I was baptized under the 1973 questions.

************************************************** ***********\

I found this info on the net a few minutes ago.

** w58 8/1 478 Baptism ***
22 It is essential that with the mouth a public declaration of faith be made. Two
questions are therefore asked the candidates: (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ? (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? 23 Everyone who can answer “Yes� to these questions is eligible for baptism and should take this step without hesitation or delay.
1. *** w60 5/15 308 "What Prevents Me from Getting Baptized?" ***
23 The first question is: Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
24 The second question is: On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
25 Everyone who has answered “Yes� to these two questions is eligible for baptism and should be baptized at that same circuit or district assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses.
*** w73 5/1 280 Baptizing Follows Discipling ***
we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of
candidates for baptism:
(1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his SonJesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
If you find that you can answer “YES� to these questions, then it would be appropriate for you to speak to the presiding overseer in the congregation of Jehovah’s witnesses with which you associate, with a view to getting baptized.
Now you are baptized into the Organization.
*** w85 6/1 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***
The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

[Rogue]

Hi Shakinah,

Here are the questions as they are now:


1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins
and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one
of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spisrit-directed organization?



I was baptized under the 1973 questions.[/b]

I think it is tooo arrogant for words that the organisation added themselves to the baptise questions... Paul even said: you are not baptised in the name of Paul or Barnabas, but in the name of Jesus! Baptising should be done in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit, nothing more! It is unbelievable that they added themselves to these questions, as if your dedication to the Jehovah equals dedication to the WTBTS... and the most shocking part is that nobody even finds it offensive that they do this!

[shikinah]

Thank you so much Eyes & Ears,

"Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?"

Shouldnt it be spirit anointed if its Jehovahs organisation?
i dont like the in association part either, it sounds like a contract with a company.

Theres always something to be considering with the watchtower, and yes Rogue they couldnt leave it just to Jesus they had to put themselves in there somewhere.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[sinner]

actually the society put on the back of the magazine: HELL it was from last october (I think) in a "Question from Readers" that they don't think they are the only ones that are going to be saved.


i got baptized in a bath tub.

[Eyes & Ears]

Sinner,

Well Sinner, I almost fell off my computer chair laughing at you and your bathtub.:rofl:

E & E

[shikinah]

Sinner,
are you serious? who baptised you lol :186:


Elizabeth

[Deborah]

The bathtub sure is funny, but you did it!

I had my husband do my baptism with my children as witnesses at the pool in our subdivision. No one was there. My hubby was so nervous because he knew how important this was for me. He's the strong hoodlum type. Muscles and a cocky walk. To see him in the pool stutterring and forgetting words was so beautiful! When we got married he was just all smiles and lit up, for my baptism his heart just poured out for me. I have been so happy that the man that loves me so much- performed the most important act of my personal declaration of love for Christ's ransom!

No questions before hand, I just gave instructions for my fulfilling my obligation.

With Love and prayers to you all, Debbie

[Rogue]

The bathtub sure is funny, but you did it!

I had my husband do my baptism with my children as witnesses at the pool in our subdivision. No one was there. My hubby was so nervous because he knew how important this was for me. He's the strong hoodlum type. Muscles and a cocky walk. To see him in the pool stutterring and forgetting words was so beautiful! When we got married he was just all smiles and lit up, for my baptism his heart just poured out for me. I have been so happy that the man that loves me so much- performed the most important act of my personal declaration of love for Christ's ransom!

No questions before hand, I just gave instructions for my fulfilling my obligation.

With Love and prayers to you all, Debbie[/b]

That is such a beautiful story! I wonder though: are/were u an active JW?
I don't think there's any reason why one couldn't be baptised in the way u described and it being acceptable for Jehovah... after all, baptism is UR dedication to Jehovah, and has nothing to do with an organisation... and I don't think the bible describes who is able to baptise someone and who isn't!

Another of my thoughts on baptism: if the WTBTS would explain to students who express their wish to be baptised, in a very CLEAR way that once u are baptised, u renounce ur right to ever questioning the conduct of the organisation, NO MATTER WHAT!! They should make u swear u will obey them blindly, no questions asked, even if they decide, maybe 30 or 40 years after ur baptism, to introduce the trinity doctrine or allow millitairy actions or any other clearly false teaching, u are STILL not allowed to question them, under penalty of DF... if that would have been made clear to me before the baptism, I would not have gone trough with it... they only told me what would happen if I commited a biblical sin, and with that I agree, but I had no idea that speaking ur mind was also punishable...I really think they should be this honest to wannabe JW's...

[shira]

That's been for me a problem concerning baptism too, the wording of it. I understand if it's for legal reasons with the organisation, but to have that actually encroach into the vows and experience of the actual baptism makes me very uncomfortable. Finally about 2 years ago I had my husband baptise me with just a Christian baptism like from the scriptures, and hopefully for now at least that is acceptable to Jehovah.

[shikinah]

The bathtub sure is funny, but you did it!

I had my husband do my baptism with my children as witnesses at the pool in our subdivision. No one was there. My hubby was so nervous because he knew how important this was for me. He's the strong hoodlum type. Muscles and a cocky walk. To see him in the pool stutterring and forgetting words was so beautiful! When we got married he was just all smiles and lit up, for my baptism his heart just poured out for me. I have been so happy that the man that loves me so much- performed the most important act of my personal declaration of love for Christ's ransom!

No questions before hand, I just gave instructions for my fulfilling my obligation.

With Love and prayers to you all, Debbie[/b]

Awww Debbie,
Thats one of the sweetest stories i have heard, to have your children as witnesses too wow. I think its the heart and intention behind the baptism which is important. I know people who under pressure got baptised to please family members or the congregation, all these are the wrong reasons despite who baptises you.
You seem to be a very blessed little family, stay strong.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Desert Blossom]

I had my husband do my baptism with my children as witnesses at the pool in our subdivision. No one was there.[/b]

I bet there was a myriad of myriads of angels watching. ;)

:buja_w_oblokach: :ban_dance01: :ban_dance02: :liefde026:

[stayawake]

<div class='quotemain'>I had my husband do my baptism with my children as witnesses at the pool in our subdivision. No one was there.[/b]

I bet there was a myriad of myriads of angels watching. ;)

:buja_w_oblokach: :ban_dance01: :ban_dance02: :liefde026:
[/b][/quote]

I must agree, a sincere heart is all it takes, plus your knowing the true God and His son along with the two greatest commandments.
At least you knew not to get baptised into a organization. That alone shows a sincere heart. As for the angels watching, I&#39;m sure they were. :ban_dance01:

Shira of course your baptisim met Jehovahs approval. as long as thats where your heart is.
Deb I know this was your hearts desire ,I am very happy for you.
The beautiful thing is that you sisters do reconize that Jehovah does exsist out side the WT organization, this alone brings great Joy to our Creator and His son.
much love
stayawake

[Deborah]

Thank you everyone. :buja_w_oblokach:

I&#39;ve been taking care of my family this past week (and work and health).

I didn&#39;t realize how much I got caught up in a bunch of resentment with some family members. Time heals all things with plenty of faith. :Yahoo_51:

Resentment is such an ugly feeling, kind of a sneeker-upper on you; kind of thing. Sometimes, the right thing said has such a profound effect. So, thank you to the one who PM&#39;d in a timely way! :liefde026: Gratefully, a brother sent me a PM that hit me softly. The resentment monster had/has several of us (me, the mostest) in the family and we are still not quite done. But LOVE endures all things.... :Yahoo_51: Actually, kindness has the most soothing effect on resentment. Kind thoughtfulness, quiet listening, loving encouragement....how difficult it can be when satan creeps in with a hard heart, when I already know I&#39;m stiffnecked! When progress is made, then I see and feel the holy spirit working in the home. :applaudit:

Rouge, born and raised JW. I have a previous history on here, same name under guest. I left the board under emotional duress. There is a time and season for everything. I returned because there are some hearts that I miss. :liefde026:

As for baptisms, I think our heart and spirit should guide us. Jesus leads and we follow. The WTBTS does not control my life anymore. I&#39;m less than two years from my last visit. I think most JW&#39;s have a good hearts and I think there are people that go to other religious organizations have a good heart. :icon_razz:

I don&#39;t need anyone&#39;s religious doctorines. I DO need Christian encouragement and fellowship. :liefde026:

With the best to anyone who fulfills their baptismal obligations, as Jesus directed by his Father&#39;s desire. I&#39;m not actually all anti-church or Kingdom Hall. They all FULFILL some of our basics needs and help us in different ways. Actually, seeing Christlike attributes from any one person, group or organization is quite beautiful! They (person, group, organization) are trying to TEACH something to us in different ways. How we process all this information determines our "thinking and actions". These "growing and maturing stages" definately change! So we pray for Holy spirit to be given to us from Jesus, its a helper! :Yahoo_51:

With Chrisitan Love, Debbie

PS. High Five, Shira!

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Deborah]

I would like to interject that perhaps you are both right.

I would like to share "why" a little more. I can not tonight.

Be back soon enough-

With prayers, Debbie

[Deborah]

Dear Utuna,

I think that you are correct by expressing that baptism is extremely important. I would like to add that if one has received a baptism by holy spirit, like Cornelius; would Cornelius have been considered unacceptable if Peter didn&#39;t go to perform the baptisms? Didn&#39;t Jehovah and Jesus decide? Of course, the Jews were sent to "finish" the teaching of this choosing. The teaching is that choosing is by divine nature, not by our limited knowledge and interpretation.

What if this "friend" hasn&#39;t figured out what is acceptable or not? WTBTS standards or the "deep" feeling of the heart. He may be confused and not "know" how to deal with making a discision. Sometimes, doing nothing is the only choice.

I was born and raised JW. Walking solo with my faith in the hands of holy spirit, Jesus, and Jehovah takes tremendous faith. Not everyone can walk this way, and sometimes we need each other to encourage and strengthen.

There are some things wrong about WTBTS standards and teachings. Many are "stuck" thinking that they cannot survive the "great tribulation" without the WTBTS. (I think that we cannot survive without Jesus. Everything else falls into place from there.) So what happens when you LOVE Jehovah and Jesus and just can&#39;t follow WTBTS standards or KNOW that there is something WRONG with the teachings. My families a trainwreck from my mothers upbringing. I raise four children without an extended family. My mom has 17 brothers and sisters. I have over 100 first cousins and NO FAMILY!

So what if this guy or any other person is still suffering influences that make "healthy reasonings" from the holy spirit acceptable? Not that I don&#39;t have compassion for someone in a state of spiritual suffering, I do. My point is that we need to practice MERCY and not judgement. What can we do to be supportive to ANYONE in this worlds trainwreck? Let Jesus work this out and we pray that this man is helped. And we actively try to help people from our hearts, it may be spirit directed help. I say we should make ourselves excessable to our outer environments, as plain Christians.

Personally, if I haven&#39;t had the holy spirit experiences that I have had; I would be struggling and beating myself up still. Faith works wonders! Now, I just take it day by day. I learn about other people and try to work good works. I thought I needed a WTBTS baptism, then I wanted a JW person to perform one off the record, and then I just decided that this is between me and the heavens. No strings.

As for the finale of judgement (with or without baptism), I&#39;ll leave that to Jesus. As for ones compelled to be baptized, well, let the dunkings continue! As we were directed to do, as followers of Christ.

With Love, Debbie

[Utuna]

Dear Deborah,

Thanks for the explanations you provided.

I never intended to question your inner feelings, the legitimacy of your hesitations and the love you have for our heavenly Father. Jehovah and His son see better than anyone else what lies within our heart and they are eager to help us and to give us the strength needed to cope with our daily problems.

The way Jesus incarnated God&#39;s ways and how he loved mankind to the point of giving his life for us show how much they care for us all, and for any one of us. During his stay on earth, Jesus set a pattern for many things, and especially regarding the steps that should be followed in order to be considered as righteous before God&#39;s eyes.

Jehovah and Jesus saw the faith of Cornelius and his family well before that event (Acts10:2,4). Some commentators of the Bible say that it&#39;s not impossible that Cornelius might be the man talking to Jesus in Mat8:5-13. The fact that Peter proposed that Cornelius and his family be baptised immediatly after they had received God&#39;s Holy Spirit is meaningful.

We can find another example of this with the Ethiopian treasurer. Notice that this man was eunuch, it means that this man couldn&#39;t come into the congregation of Jehovah according to the Mosaïc Law (Dt23:1). Nevertheless, God&#39;s Holy Spirit sent Philip to get him baptized because God had seen the purity that lay within his heart. Please notice that the Ethiopian treasurer was reading Isaïah 53:7 (Acts8:32). If this man were not baptized in the name of Jesus, he would have remained under the Mosaïc Law....

This man was a proselyte and served humbly Jehovah despite being considered as cursed by the Jews. The account recorded in the book of Acts says that once baptized, the Ethiopian eunuch kept going on his way rejoicing. Why did this man is so happy after having been baptized ? Through this baptism, his status changed. His acceptance of the Good News and of what was implied had set him free. Baptism was the step that he had to follow to confirm, to materialize, to implement his acceptance. Philip required nothing else from him. Did this man regret what he did ? As he kept on going his way, he surely greatly rejoiced when, going on reading Isaiah 53 till 56:3-4 he saw :

"And let not the foreigner that has joined himself to Jehovah say, "Without doubt Jehovah will divide me off from his people. Neither let the eunuch say, "Look! I am a dry tree." For this is what Jehovah has said to the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths and that have chosen what I have delighted in and that are laying hold of my covenant. I will even give to them in my house and within my walls a monument and a name, something better than sons and daughters. A name to time indefinite I shall give to them, one that will not be cut off."

Of course, these verses have prophetic implications. For sure, it was nevertheless a very joyous promise for this Ethiopian ?

In my previous message, I quoted the following verse : "While they are promising them freedom..." We will never please God if we consider Jesus&#39; sacrifice as a licence to act according to our own will, considering that faith only is the key to salvation. Jesus set a pattern for us and faith implies following the steps he wanted his disciples to. That&#39;s also why I used the expression "to go beneath" what is written in the Bible. God&#39;s approval can&#39;t be attained through "light" steps !

God is well aware of what&#39;s going on within our heart, and He&#39;ll give us all the strenght we need to follow the steps His son set as a pattern. There is nothing impossible to God and he can help us more than we&#39;d be able to comprehend when facing real ordeals. Faith is to believe that He will help us to accomplish His will and the steps His son set as a pattern. Faith is not believing that He will see the beauty of our heart and bless us accordingly amidst figurative anarchy, bedlam, free-for-all party.

As a conclusion, my dear Deborah, please read :

"If you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you will say to this mountain, transfer from here to there", and it will transfer, and nothing will be impossible for you" - (Mat17:20)

"For the righteous one may fall even seven times, and he will certainly get up..." - (Prov24:16)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[panda]

Some may feel that the scriptures only apply to the anointed, as they never new or heard of the great crowd, that was only mentioned in Rev7:9

Jesus did say he had other sheep not of this fold. Jn 10:16, but nothing is added about that by the congregations. The scriptures seem to relate to the anointed. Perhaps some may view that as meaning it unnecessary to be baptized.

Then I also think of the Ethiopian eunuch, he was baptized almost immediately, he was not a Jew was he. And also the first gentile to be baptized was Cornelius.