Shroud Of Torin

[troubled heart]

Hey guys hows it goin? i know its been a while sence my last post but like i said, I would do more listening and learning that actual posting. However i do have a question about the authenticity of the Shroud of Torin (supposed burial cloth of jesus christ) I just so happened to be watching the discovery channel this afternoon, my fav channel by the way, and they were talking about the authenticity of the shroud. Comes out that everyone thinks its truely authintic encluding the vatican (even though i put no weight what so ever in what they say). But after veiwing all the evidence presented i myself find no reason to doubt the shroud. If this is indeed authentic, this would be the first photographic image that mankind has of our Lord and King. I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it and get a few inputs if you may. Thanks in advance. By the way i am really curious to see anyt thoughts that Mr. Watchman may have about it. For some reason this guys answers to questions are very intriguing to me. Very Intellictual! For those of you who do not know about the shroud there is a website posted below for further research or you can just google "Shroud of Torin"


http://www.gotquestions.org/shroud-of-Turin.html

[Sketch]

...But after veiwing all the evidence presented i myself find no reason to doubt the shroud. If this is indeed authentic, this would be the first photographic image that mankind has of our Lord and King. I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it and get a few inputs if you may.[/b]

meh.... i'm not really impressed by it either way. I honestly don't care if it IS the real deal or not.... though "The Onion" newspaper recently ran a story saying it had been accidentally washed with a red t-shirt... i had to laugh... To me, the image looks too much like the old Jesus photo given out during WWII to help the troops keep their faith... the problem was that he had flowing blonde hair and blur eyes.... not too common in the middle east 2,000 years ago...

If in the 1:1 Billion chance that it is the real deal, it still doesn't really mean anything. Jesus showed us how to LIVE by example. Giving much - if any - creedence to his physical burial cloth is no different than doing the same to the cross. Its a relic. Its a physical item that too many people will use as a manifestation of what they believe to be their God - also known as an idol.

[TheCook]

... Its a relic. Its a physical item that too many people will use as a manifestation of what they believe to be their God - also known as an idol.[/b]

I think this is the reason why it's probably a fake. In my opinion, Jehovah wouldn't want there to be anything left for people to worship in that way, especially not anything apparently supernatural. There aren't any bones left of neither Moses' nor Jesus Christ's bodies, for example.

[troubled heart]

<div class='quotemain'>... Its a relic. Its a physical item that too many people will use as a manifestation of what they believe to be their God - also known as an idol.[/b]

I think this is the reason why it&#39;s probably a fake. In my opinion, Jehovah wouldn&#39;t want there to be anything left for people to worship in that way, especially not anything apparently supernatural. There aren&#39;t any bones left of neither Moses&#39; nor Jesus Christ&#39;s bodies, for example.
[/b][/quote]


Never really thought about along that context cook. If Jehovah didnt even leave the bones of moses why would he leave anything of his son? hmmmm ....intresting

[watchman]

Hi Troubled Heart.

Okay. For whatever it is worth, here are my thoughts.

I have looked at the images of the Shroud of Turin and what seems odd to me is that there is the faint outline on an entire man. What could account for that? They seem to want to give us the impression that Jesus&#39; corpse exuded some kind of supernatural vibes that made an X-ray-like photographic impression on the cloth. That is preposterous. Jesus was not some sort of super-human that radiated cosmic rays. (excluding the Transfiguration) He was simply a perfect man. And to my knowledge a corpse wrapped in a cloth does not leave any sort of ghostly impression.

And even supposing that there were blood stains on the cloth, the Bible account states that Jesus&#39; disciples prepared his body for burial, which would have included bathing his body of his spilled blood. And the body was also packed with spices.

And then there is the matter of how a linen sheet could have survived 1500 years and why after all those centuries it suddenly shows up in Italy. How convenient for the Vatican. :icon_rolleyes:

Looking at the reproduction of the Shroud the image looks very much like Leonard Di Vinci&#39;s famous sketch of the Vitruvian Man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man

Di Vinci drew that image just a couple of decades before the Shroud turned up. Perhaps Leonard had been commissioned by the Vatican to do it up. Who knows? But you have to admit that there is a striking similarity in the style.

Watchman

[troubled heart]

Hi Troubled Heart.

Okay. For whatever it is worth, here are my thoughts.

I have looked at the images of the Shroud of Turin and what seems odd to me is that there is the faint outline on an entire man. What could account for that? They seem to want to give us the impression that Jesus&#39; corpse exuded some kind of supernatural vibes that made an X-ray-like photographic impression on the cloth. That is preposterous. Jesus was not some sort of super-human that radiated cosmic rays. (excluding the Transfiguration) He was simply a perfect man. And to my knowledge a corpse wrapped in a cloth does not leave any sort of ghostly impression.

And even supposing that there were blood stains on the cloth, the Bible account states that Jesus&#39; disciples prepared his body for burial, which would have included bathing his body of his spilled blood. And the body was also packed with spices.

And then there is the matter of how a linen sheet could have survived 1500 years and why after all those centuries it suddenly shows up in Italy. How convenient for the Vatican. :icon_rolleyes:

Looking at the reproduction of the Shroud the image looks very much like Leonard Di Vinci&#39;s famous sketch of the Vitruvian Man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man

Di Vinci drew that image just a couple of decades before the Shroud turned up. Perhaps Leonard had been commissioned by the Vatican to do it up. Who knows? But you have to admit that there is a striking similarity in the style.

Watchman[/b]

Thanks to everyone for there comments i really appreciate it espeacially you watchman i really like the rationale that you use for thinking...Do you have to take a pill for that? J/K!! (Just Kidding) you know i really do learn a lot from you guys from just paying attention and listening. For some reason when i talk i dont really learn much :icon_neutral: , so i dont post unless i really have a nagging question. Well im back to listening mode and may Jehovah bless you all. Thanks

[Londoner]

Hi troubled heart :wave:


I saw a very good documentary on the shrould of Turin a few years ago, where the Vatican surprisingly allowed a scientist to cut out a very small part of the shrould so that he could carbon-date it (the Vatican must have been convinced of its authenticity).

Surprise, surprise, when it was dated, it was found to be only 500 years old! They also demonstrated successfully in an experiment, how it was done.

The documentary team pointed out that it was a mighty impressive fake for a medieval fraudster!

Londoner

[Jeshurun]

I found it interesting that Jesus even had LONG HAIR in the image, as if he HAD long hair.

Actually the image reminded me of Ian Anderson.

Not to worry troubled heart, you have found the forum of the Hoax Police. Nothing gets past these savvy customers....

:Love:
Jesh

[Elizabeth]

Hey guys hows it goin? i know its been a while sence my last post but like i said, I would do more listening and learning that actual posting. However i do have a question about the authenticity of the Shroud of Torin (supposed burial cloth of jesus christ) I just so happened to be watching the discovery channel this afternoon, my fav channel by the way, and they were talking about the authenticity of the shroud. Comes out that everyone thinks its truely authintic encluding the vatican (even though i put no weight what so ever in what they say). But after veiwing all the evidence presented i myself find no reason to doubt the shroud. If this is indeed authentic, this would be the first photographic image that mankind has of our Lord and King. I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it and get a few inputs if you may. Thanks in advance. By the way i am really curious to see anyt thoughts that Mr. Watchman may have about it. For some reason this guys answers to questions are very intriguing to me. Very Intellictual! For those of you who do not know about the shroud there is a website posted below for further research or you can just google "Shroud of Torin"


http://www.gotquestions.org/shroud-of-Turin.html[/b]

Hello!
I hope I&#39;m doing this right. (1st offering here...) My mentor and I coincidentally were discussing this very thing at our last study together, and the only clue we could come up with is John 11: 44 which mentions strips of linen. I looked up burial customs and prcedures at the time of Christ on the web, and this seems to be consistent with information on some secular websites that reinforce the idea of strips of linen being wrapped around a body after being treated with spices and oils. I&#39;m shooting from the hip here, but didn&#39;t Jesus say to unwrap, or unbind Lazarus? One website mentioned that it was the custom at the time of Christ for men to have short hair, and one stellar line of reasoning in my book was that Jews followed the admonition to not have any images to worship, so it does seem improbable that Jesus would arrange to have this image left for any purpose. Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

[SlaveForJah]

Hello!
I hope I&#39;m doing this right. (1st offering here...)

Elizabeth[/b]

You seem to be doing just fine. :)

Welcome to the forum! I pray your time here will be as beneficial to you as it has been to me.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[Jinnvisible]

If this is indeed authentic, this would be the first photographic image that mankind has of our Lord and King. I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it and get a few inputs if you may.[/b]

Hi t.heart

I don`t think images of Jesus were meant to survive on after his death and resurection. When Moses died his remains had to be hidden and there was some big celestial frat going down about it. It seems likely that someone wanted moses bones so that Israel could idolise them, and hence be led astray.

It for pretty much the same reason I don`t believe images of Christ were meant to survive. I think the shroud is a hoax. These objects tend to become idols and especially with Jesus, it seems that seeing him as a man, and knowing who he was, -was a special one time only event in history. There was, of course, a woman who went to the temple in Jerusalem who knew that she was destined to lay eyes on Christ before she died. Somehow she knew that priviilege would come to her. (I can`t remember exactly were in scripture that is). This seems to suggest to me that it was something meant for its special moment in history. Laying eyes on this Messiah.

I wondered if there might be some creation of Jesus` carpentry that survived the ages Like the dead sea scrolls. A chair, that Christ made, stashed in a cave some where. Whether the ark of the covenant will resurface and the garden of eden location be identified. Stuff like that.

I feel certain that there will be loads of exciting stuff for humans living on the earth after armageddon. With evil locked away, perhaps humans will converse will angels. Although I think if Jesus saw someone staring wonderingly at the burial cloth of a dead prophet he would think they were a real dreamer. I understand the fascination though, it was a very special priviledge to behold the messiah. I really don`t know what God has planned for people at that post armaggeddon earth time, however whatever it is, it will make staring at some kind of tea-stained rag seem positively dull.