Passing Of The Emblems

[Jeshurun]

I'm sure that all of you can relate to the emotional upheaval that goes along with discovering what has happened to our beloved organization. After examining the initial avalanche of information exposing the apostasy of the Watchtower Society, I felt that the annual Memorial observance was still an occasion untouched by the aforementioned apostasy. To my complete dismay I was mistaken.

At the suggestion of my dear and beloved brother Nambo, I went searching the net for several sources to confirm the accuracy of the information about the ancient Gnostic rituals pertaining to the refusal of the Body of Christ. I found things much more disturbing than that.

One must never underestimate the extreme depths to which our adversary will submerge himself. I would not even want to suggest to you to even try to use your imagination to understand what I am saying, so l won't go there.

It was and is a Gnostic ritual to be offered the Body of Christ and snub one's nose at it. So be it. Now I'd like to figure out how I'm going to handle the upcoming Memorial without raising eyebrows. Because there's no way I'm sitting there and passing the emblems along, I'm just not doing it. But I'm not going to miss the Memorial either. So I'm subtly hinting for some suggestions. Let's take a look at the scripture that it's based on:

¹³ And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand persons were killed by the

earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.</span></span>


Since the Society teaches that this was fulfilled in 1919 or whatever, I wonder why Bethel would keep the number around there.

The other question is, how many are partaking who are apostates and should not be? I would say its a safe bet that the number is indeed 7,000, just maybe not their particular 7,000.

Anyway, just my thoughts about the Memorial, any suggestions about how I should handle it would be much appreciated.

Love

Lou

[DoubtingThomas]

"There was also a statement in the Illuminati article that the Society is basically just putting out a fabricated number as to the amount of those partaking."

Jeshuran, which article is this? I missed something here.

[Jeshurun]

"There was also a statement in the Illuminati article that the Society is basically just putting out a fabricated number as to the amount of those partaking."

Jeshuran, which article is this? I missed something here.[/b]

Sorry, it was an article I took down on another post regarding the 13 bloodlines of the Iluminati.

I&#39;m not in any way questioning the new covenant, and I&#39;m not saying that anyone but the anointed should partake. I wish I hadn&#39;t learned of this ancient ritual, because now I don&#39;t want to touch the emblems at all. I would feel better just watching the anointed partake from a distance.

This is not easy for me, it&#39;s all making me very sad!

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

<div class='quotemain'>"There was also a statement in the Illuminati article that the Society is basically just putting out a fabricated number as to the amount of those partaking."

Jeshuran, which article is this? I missed something here.[/b]

Sorry, it was an article I took down on another post regarding the 13 bloodlines of the Iluminati.

I&#39;m not in any way questioning the new covenant, and I&#39;m not saying that anyone but the anointed should partake. I wish I hadn&#39;t learned of this ancient ritual, because now I don&#39;t want to touch the emblems at all. I would feel better just watching the anointed partake from a distance.

This is not easy for me, it&#39;s all making me very sad!
[/b][/quote]

Hi Jeshurun,

I am very intrigued with what you say but as I missed your original thread, can you either give us a little more detail on this train of thought or some links so that I can check it for myself?

Thanks,

EF

[Kenneth]

The problem is if you refuse to hold the emblems you will be questioned why you refused. The reason everyone takes them is so each person has the opportunity to partake, the irony is if you do partake you may find yourself being questioned more so than if you refused to hold them in the first place. My advice is just go with the flow and follow the procedure.


Kenneth

[Nambo]

Hi Jeshurun,

I am very intrigued with what you say but as I missed your original thread, can you either give us a little more detail on this train of thought or some links so that I can check it for myself?

Thanks,

EF[/b]

Hi EF, As Iam responsible for bringing this accusation against the Witmesses into the light of day in the first place, something I deeply regret due to the upset it has caused our brother Lou, let me show you how and where it started.

I had been reading of the claimed link between the Illuminati Russell bloodline and CT Russell, a link I have yet to see actual evidence for, but it did bring up a question that made me wonder which I posted here http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75

Lou had asked where I had found this info so I sent him the link which lead to the second thread here http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/inde...p?showtopic=120 (http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=120)

You might want to request the original link from me EF but then I might be too worried to give it to you. One can see that there are also honourable reasons why the society advises not to search for things on the internet.

My own opinion and one that I keep re-illiterating is, there is a lot of lies and misinformation mixed up with the truth out there, a lot of it Satanic.
Therefore, never take anything on face value, allways question the motives, who gains, and look at other it from other angles to see if it is really so.

I wonder what else you have found Lou that has lead you to accept this piont as fact?, perhaps you could pm me and I will give you my thoughts rather than post it on here as it might be a stumbling block to others.

As for the original question, personally Iam still undecided, but I have yet to see evidence that the society impose it upon us as a deliberate satanic ritual, so untill I do, I will not at all consider that to be the case.

Anybody know the JW history regarding the passing of the emblems?, guess it would be that everybody did it, then as soon as they realised there where more than 144.000 in the society and learned of the great crowd having an earthly hope, they just changed the memorial to the arrangement they have today?

Also, allthough the cup of wine represents the new covernant, it also represents Jesus blood that was spilled out on your behalf, now "your behalf", is that just the annointeds behalf?, or Jesus being the Lamb of God that took away the sin of the whole world, not just the annointed?

[SWORDOFJAH]

Another reason why the Lord’s Evening Meal was instituted was to remind us that by means of his death as a perfect, sinless human, Jesus ‘gave his soul a ransom in exchange for many.’ (Matthew 20:28) </span>

</span></span>

[Molly]

There was also a statement in the Illuminati article that the Society is basically just putting out a fabricated number as to the amount of those partaking. This raises a question for me: Exactly how many of the anointed has the Society disfellowshipped? The statement was also made that the Society seems to be maintaining a number of about 7,000 partaking. That is very interesting because of this scripture:13[/b]</sup> And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand persons were killed by the

earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.</span></span>
...
The other question is, how many are partaking who are apostates and should not be? I would say its a safe bet that the number is indeed 7,000, just maybe not their particular 7,000.

Love

Lou[/b]


Hi Lou-
It is interesting that you hit on the number 7,000. My husband used to say that at the end there would be 7,000 annointed left to be called into the new covenant. He based this on 1 Kings 19:18: "And I have let seven thousand remain in Israel, all the knees that have not bent down to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him." (Also, Rom. 11:4)

Surprisingly, then reading Robert&#39;s book, I found he made virtually the same remark. I do think that the number 7,000 is very importnat. I do think there will be 7,000 who will not bend their knee to Baal at the end.

Molly

[Sketch]

I&#39;d like to think there&#39;d be more than 7,000... i don&#39;t PLAN to bend anything to anyone... ... but then I&#39;m not annointed... and plans get hosed all the time... we&#39;ll see when the time comes...

[DoubtingThomas]

Just a suggestion here Jeshuran - but many who are ill "attend" the Memorial via the congregation&#39;s telephone hookup. Almost every congregation has the ability to do this. So if you want to "attend" the Memorial from a distance, w/o handling the emblems, then you might perhaps find yourself feeling not so well or even "ill" over this matter, and just attend Our Lord&#39;s Celebration over the telephone, so that you do not do anything to violate your conscience over the matter, as well as not disturb the Celebration for others by making a minor scene or incidence by refusing to touch the emblems. BTW - I have seen others do this over the years. I don&#39;t know their reason, but they just let the emblems pass by them to the person next to them w/o touching the platter or glass. Did you know that ALL individuals are "counted" as being in attendance when they tie-in over the telephone? After all, You know how obsessed the Society is with numbers, so you want to make sure your head is counted too.

[Sketch]

I thought elders took the emblems to the people&#39;s houses tobe passed.... I don&#39;t know.. I&#39;ve only missed two in the last 30 years... I know it used to happen in my original hall... but that was a long time ago... actually, i don&#39;t even REMEMBER going last year... i&#39;m sure i did though...

[DoubtingThomas]

Hey Sketch, I have heard of elders bringing the emblems to someone in the hopsital or to one of the annointed who was bedridden before. But I have tied in to the past 5 Memorial celebrations over the telephone and they never once brought them to my house. But the elders actually told me that I have "alienated" them by some letters I wrote to the Society and CO and DO about them, so I think it might be something childish and personal they are holding against me. Oh well, it&#39;s just a good thing it is Jehovah and Christ judging them and not me. &#39;Cause if it was up to me ....

[James]

Hi Friends,

In all the years I&#39;ve attended the Memorial I never thought that I should take the emblems and based on the brothers&#39; talk from the Bible it did and still does seem scriptural. So I am just as suprised as everyone else that there could be a Satanic or Paganistic connection.
Since I believe we have all had the proper heart condition for attending and at this point I can&#39;t find fault with the Memorial Talk, then I have no past guilt and until it can be shown otherwise, I will still attend.

Just a side question-If an annointed is unable to receive the emblems on Nisan 14 can they receive it the next day or later?

Brotherly Love,
James

[stayawake]

There is a time period as to when the brothers must take the emblems to the house bound annoited, but not sure how long ,unless i do research. I will let that up to you that have better eye sight.



James your doing the right thing in waiting. Don&#39;t even worry about what the Illmunati say,one must remember who is backing this group, so don&#39;t give it another thought.
It is only the Sons of God who are to partake, and that is one of the things that the WT has right. The annointed had to be declared Rightious in order for Jehovah God to even adopt them. The scripture tell us that Jah says you must be holy because I am holy
No way could Jah adopt imperfect humans as His sons unless He would declare them rightiou first.
In Isaiah we are given titles that will apply to Christ Jesus during his !,000 year rule. One title is Heavenly father, that is what he will be to us. The annointed reconize Jehovah as their Father as they are his adopted sons.Their spirit crys out to His spirit. This also makes them Christ brothers.
So we are in a sense children that belong to Christ. It will be thru him that we will recieve life here on earth. He is our life giver in that sense. It was he that bought back what Adam lost. It is not until after that final test at the end of the 1000 year rule of Christ, that those who passed that test will be written in the book of life,. Then and only then will all things being made perfect will Christ hand everything back to his Father ,us perfect humans finally and a cleansed earth, like it was in the beginning back to his Father, 1 Cor 15;24-28 It is then that we become Jehovh&#39;s perfect children here on earth, just like Adam and Eve.
Jehovah purpose that was to be in the beginning is fianally full filled , because of the Kingdom Covenent with the 144,000,who are the partakers of the bread and wine.
We with the earthly hope do not belong to the body of Christ,nor are we the Bride ,but it is thru this arrangement that was written way back in Gen 3:15 that Jehovah&#39;s original purpose will be fullfilled.
If Adam and Eve would have been obedient there would have been no need for Christ, nor the Kingdom Covenant ,nor even the Bible as we know it ,in fact you and I may have never been here, so lets rejoice in the LORD and be grateful and satisfied for even having a share in Jahs purpose.
The illumunatie where not a part of Gods purpose , so don&#39;t ever allow them to influence you in any decision, as this is part of the error that Jah is alloowing to take place for those who didn&#39;t love the truth. I only speak for myself
love stayawake

[Jeshurun]

I&#39;ve definitely overdosed on negative information. My wife tells me I look like somebody died. I can&#39;t watch the news anymore, nothing but lies and deception. It&#39;s tough to live in this world after you can see through it. Reading about all this hatred of Jehovah stirs up deep hatred for them within myself, and hatred is never a good thing. It can eat you alive. I&#39;m experiencing that right now.

Today was the strangest day. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever been more depressed. But I can tell you what brought me to tears and is snapping me out of it: Reading all your posts here, and all of your PM&#39;s. Thank you for supporting me during this time of trouble. I know that I will rise up stronger in the end, because that is what I keep praying for.

It&#39;s probably time to stop researching the Illuminati, but what keeps driving me is to try to discover their exact plans, because all I can think about is being a light to people once the panic starts. I feel that Jehovah has called me and also all of you to carry out that work. We are truly privileged to have heart conditions that compel us to work so tirelessly for Jehovah&#39;s side.

I really liked the tie-line suggestion, but I do want to be there. I usually go with a large group of friends who are inactive, friends that I know since I was a child in the truth. I will not tell them any of this, and I will not bring it up again. I&#39;ll just have to deal with it. It&#39;s only one moment out of a whole year. Jehovah and Jesus know what&#39;s in our hearts, and really, that&#39;s all that matters.

Thank you all for having me as your brother in Christ.

Lou

[Steadfast]

Dear Brother Jesh,

Don&#39;t be downhearted at what you are seeing. It takes time to recover, but recover you will. In time, you will be able to read the NWO information without as much emotion as you are right now. Knowing what you know will turn out to be a great blessing, both for you and the ones who listen to you.

Stick close to the core doctrines that you learned. These will sustain you and help you to remain strong.

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[stayawake]

[quote]
Dear Brother Jesh,

{Don&#39;t be downhearted at what you are seeing. It takes time to recover, but recover you will. In time, you will be able to read the NWO information without as much emotion as you are right now. Knowing what you know will turn out to be a great blessing, both for you and the ones who listen to you.}


Dear Jesh.
,Its true ,This is a blessing, once one sees that the ground work that is being laid by the Illuminati is the foundation for the NWO, then we know its something that MUST take place.
No human can stop it as it has Satans backing. He has no plans to just let all he is in control of to go without a fight, after all this has all been his for approx 6,ooo years.
It will be this NWO that,will force every one of us to make a choice, as it will be in opposition to Gods heavenly kingdom.
It will be Satans last try at having a successful Goverment, thats why the NWO was so long in the making.every other goverment had failed.
Satan knows to really make this NWO work, the anointed will have to be out of the picture,, so thats the reason for the attack on the remaining ones of Gods seed or the annointed .pictured by the Two Witnesses.
So here we are - being able to peer into the Great Tribulation, seeing what will bring on Armegedden.
All that awaits us right now is the war that will start in heaven at the birth of Gods Kingdom, Satan being ousted, the 7th anglo American World power will experience a death stroke,
The recovery of that stroke will come thru the NWO,
Then comes our allegence demanded to that 8th king, the annointed be sought after for slaughter,Rev:12;!7 all this time the four hourseman are riding,
in fact we will be in the middle of a SPIRITUAL WAR, but we will be able to understand what is happening .Oh ! what a Grand Blessing to be aware of all this as it is taking place. The annointed, will not fear man, as they will lift up their heads high knowing their deliverence is getting near . This is what Jesus meant when he asked " are you able to drink this cup "?
Remember always that all this is a must and HAS to take place to carry out Jehovah&#39;s original purpose, but Jehovah will be the Victor.
I only speak for myself. as i know i don&#39;t have it all.
love stayawake

[Nambo]

Lou, when you start beliving everything you see in the media news.
When Satan tells you the Jehovahs Witnesses are the true religion that you must join in order to worship Jehovah and to worship him alone.

Thats when you want to start worrying and get depressed.

Now is the time to be happy and hold yourself erect because, especially for those of us that have looked such as yourself, we see things going exactly as to Biblical plan.

[Molly]

I&#39;ve definitely overdosed on negative information. My wife tells me I look like somebody died. I can&#39;t watch the news anymore, nothing but lies and deception. It&#39;s tough to live in this world after you can see through it. Reading about all this hatred of Jehovah stirs up deep hatred for them within myself, and hatred is never a good thing. It can eat you alive. I&#39;m experiencing that right now.

Today was the strangest day. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever been more depressed. But I can tell you what brought me to tears and is snapping me out of it: Reading all your posts here, and all of your PM&#39;s. Thank you for supporting me during this time of trouble. I know that I will rise up stronger in the end, because that is what I keep praying for.

It&#39;s probably time to stop researching the Illuminati, but what keeps driving me is to try to discover their exact plans, because all I can think about is being a light to people once the panic starts. I feel that Jehovah has called me and also all of you to carry out that work. We are truly privileged to have heart conditions that compel us to work so tirelessly for Jehovah&#39;s side.

I really liked the tie-line suggestion, but I do want to be there. I usually go with a large group of friends who are inactive, friends that I know since I was a child in the truth. I will not tell them any of this, and I will not bring it up again. I&#39;ll just have to deal with it. It&#39;s only one moment out of a whole year. Jehovah and Jesus know what&#39;s in our hearts, and really, that&#39;s all that matters.

Thank you all for having me as your brother in Christ.

Lou[/b]

Good Morning Lou-

All of the information that you acquired of late has overwhelmed you. It is not a surprise to me. I&#39;ve felt that grief myself since I started to really dig to find out what is going on. Between the Illuminati, the NWO, the Freemasonry and Satan&#39;s infiltration of the WTS, it can be a lot to comprehend intellectually and emotionally. Perhaps a break from the focus on the negative and some time spent on the positive value of the wealth of knowledge you&#39;ve acquired.

After all, think about how explicit you can be when you do have the opportunity to explain to our brothers and sisters exactly what is going on . How blessed they will be to have a fount of knowledge like yourself to explain where they went wong in their thinking, what is presently taking place and what to expect during the tribulation. It won&#39;t always be like this. Satan really only has about three and a half years to make his case and then poof - gone! Now that is something to look forward to.

Hang in there Lou. Really, I don&#39;t think Jehovah expects us to be aware of every little detail or the symbolic representation that some Satanist would ascribe to the emblems. Nor are you able to control all those things that are happening around you. You are interested in serving Jehovah, not Satan, and Jehovah is aware of that as well. Problem is, you are already aware of something, and it really bothers you. At that point, only your conscience can make the decision for you.

Love

Molly

[stayawake]

{Good Morning Lou-

All of the information that you acquired of late has overwhelmed you. It is not a surprise to me. I&#39;ve felt that grief myself since I started to really dig to find out what is going on. Between the Illuminati, the NWO, the Freemasonry and Satan&#39;s infiltration of the WTS, it can be a lot to comprehend intellectually and emotionally. Perhaps a break from the focus on the negative and some time spent on the positive value of the wealth of knowledge you&#39;ve acquired.

It won&#39;t always be like this. Satan really only has about three and a half years to make his case and then poof - gone! Now that is something to look forward to.}



My dear sister Molly, I could not have said it better, you see the picture just as i do. love ya !

Dear bro Jesh,
IMHO
You had mentioned ,knowing a group of inactive ones that you grew up with,
Have you ever thought that THEY may be your ministry !!!
Believe me they would be more receptive right now, then those inside ,who are still under the spell.
These are the ones i SLOWLY fed our new Truths to,
all the ways from 1914 to the NWO, and right now there are about a doz of us from the same cong, that know the TRUTH, about the TRUTH,and they themselves are sharing with those that they feel they can talk with, its like a chain reaction.
These inactive ones ,strange as it may seem,have been set free, and being they still love Jehovah, they are oh so happy to know that there still is a place for them in Jahs arrangement.
The knowledge we have at the present, is like infusing a new hope into these ones that are wondering around out in that dark world,
Jesh just try it with one, i am sure you will be surprised at how they respond. Its like when we would find someone out in the field.
But the beauty here is they already know the true God and His Core doctrines so one does not have to be careful with what is said to that one.
You will find as i did, that some always had doubts about certain events but were afried to mention it to any one inside. Years ago we had a introduction on how to draw a person out. It works wonders with those who have wondered away from the organiztion.
all you have to ask (at the right time of course) "Have you ever wondered ?"".
They are there Jesh and waiting, don&#39;t hold back.
love stayawake

[stayawake]

Hi dear bro nambo
I didn,t mean to ignor you, just now read your post to Jesh.
Had to laugh, cause you said it oh so plain, the time to worry and get depressed, is when the world starts praising JWs
Its now while under attack, that we should rejoice,
Jesus put it so nicely to his Father in Jonh 17," the world will hate them as they are no part of this world, "
Keeping seperate from this world although still in it will be our pass port to life.
Thank you sooo much Nambo, for your thought provoking post.
love stayawake

[Cephalon]

Perhaps a break from the focus on the negative and some time spent on the positive value of the wealth of knowledge you&#39;ve acquired.

Molly[/b]

I&#39;ll second that advice.

Don&#39;t worry and get depressed my brother. Many of us have been trough similar things.

[olrono]

Don’t worry Lou, remember Jesus said, “keep doing this in remembrance of me” when you hold them, you are “doing this”, you don’t have to drink it, to do it.! I think this Idea came from “Friztsmere” (I can’t spell his name) he is from Portland Oregon and has a “Patriot connection” and wrote that book about the WT & the Mason’s. When you learn of the rituals of the Illuminati, you will learn they always ‘spit’ on the sacred things, and I am not aware of any ritual of passing the bred and wine of Christ Jesus.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Jesh, just wondering, what did you do last year?

EF

[Jeshurun]

Jesh, just wondering, what did you do last year?

EF[/b]

See your PM box EF
:Love:
Lou

[panda]

I don&#39;t see why they have to have the passing of the emblems.

A table with the wine and bread, would be enough, wouldn&#39;t it and anyone that feels they want to partake should. It&#39;s between Jehovah and the anointed one.

Have a discrete table at the back or in a room. All this ritual to me is silly.

[SlaveForJah]

Interesting thought, Panda.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

The passover celebration took place in homes and small gatherings and at the time that Jesus instituted the memorial the partakers were not annointed with Holy Spirit. Why has the event become institutionalised?

EF

[Jahsdisciple]

For myself,I think the danger is:because we see things happening in the Org that isnt right,there is the tendancy to think its ALL wrong.That the more we dig the more we will find wrong. I dont see it that way at all.

When there are a few things wrong,we can follow the conspiracy theory.

I think its and imperfect Org run by blind people who if they had eyes wouldnt do what they do. The cover things up because they think its a &#39;bad witness&#39; for outsiders to see the wrong things. And they want lovers of good to see Jah through JW&#39;s. And there is no other Org that has as much bible light as JW&#39;s.

Its done with a genuine motive. But that doesnt make the wrong right. This kind of negativeness can poison you as I have experienced myself. So see it for what it is. Blind people trying their best. We may see what they do as terrible,but I liken it to the circumsission issue of the first century. They argued about for decades and it caused divisions,even some of the &#39;12&#39; being involved. But in the end,they were doing their best,and Jah blessed them to the extent that He could...dispite their blindness.

Hurt causes pain,pain causes anger,anger causes hatred. It hurts us,not them and they dont even know they do it,so why let that poison us and blind us to some of the good that goes on there...even if we arnt part of being there.

The question is,do we want to hang on to that pain because they have hurt us...as if that makes us righteous because we have suffered.