144,000 Are They Virgins?

[shikinah]

The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x

[EmmaKay]

The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x[/b]

Hey Elizabeth!

Well, let's see....
I think...(this is my thought, other's here are much better equipped to answer, but I'll put in my two cents :) )

Not defiling themselves with women....which is interesting because "women" in rev usually is referring to false religions...So I THINK that has some correlation here. And they could be corrupted by the apostate teaching of Christendom, debased, whatever other terrible word that fits. I'm not exactly SURE of where the scripture is, but it says that these people would try to fool (debase, corrupt, make them impure) Christs brothers if at all possible.
the 144,000, after they become spirit beings are no longer male or female, someone brought this up a while back, that the bible refers to "men or women" in this sense so we as humans can wrap our brains around it (which makes total sense to me)

I've known a few Women that were of the anointed, so I know women are allowed. But being literal virgins....(don't tell anyone of the anointed that are married....they might get upset, heheh)

I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It's like a safeguard. The bible has it's own security system! That's also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it's meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there's probably a much deeper reason, but that's the one I always told myself.

With Love,
EmmaKay

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x[/b]

Hey Elizabeth!

Well, let&#39;s see....
I think...(this is my thought, other&#39;s here are much better equipped to answer, but I&#39;ll put in my two cents :) )

Not defiling themselves with women....which is interesting because "women" in rev usually is referring to false religions...So I THINK that has some correlation here. And they could be corrupted by the apostate teaching of Christendom, debased, whatever other terrible word that fits. I&#39;m not exactly SURE of where the scripture is, but it says that these people would try to fool (debase, corrupt, make them impure) Christs brothers if at all possible.
the 144,000, after they become spirit beings are no longer male or female, someone brought this up a while back, that the bible refers to "men or women" in this sense so we as humans can wrap our brains around it (which makes total sense to me)

I&#39;ve known a few Women that were of the anointed, so I know women are allowed. But being literal virgins....(don&#39;t tell anyone of the anointed that are married....they might get upset, heheh)

I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

With Love,
EmmaKay
[/b][/quote]


Thats a good analogy, ive heard this before.

Rev 14.4 "These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women, in fact they are virgins. These follow the lamb no matter where he goes. These were taken from among mankind as first fruits to god and to the lamb.

See the way it speaks sounds literal to me, especially where it says "infact" they were "virgins" making a point, its also says they "were" past tense. But then it speaks that they were were without blemish, which would be impossible if being an imperfect human.
So perhaps it is speaking of their heavenly condition.

Thank you
Elizabeth x

[sayjay3]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x[/b]

Hey Elizabeth!

Well, let&#39;s see....
I think...(this is my thought, other&#39;s here are much better equipped to answer, but I&#39;ll put in my two cents :) )

Not defiling themselves with women....which is interesting because "women" in rev usually is referring to false religions...So I THINK that has some correlation here. And they could be corrupted by the apostate teaching of Christendom, debased, whatever other terrible word that fits. I&#39;m not exactly SURE of where the scripture is, but it says that these people would try to fool (debase, corrupt, make them impure) Christs brothers if at all possible.
the 144,000, after they become spirit beings are no longer male or female, someone brought this up a while back, that the bible refers to "men or women" in this sense so we as humans can wrap our brains around it (which makes total sense to me)

I&#39;ve known a few Women that were of the anointed, so I know women are allowed. But being literal virgins....(don&#39;t tell anyone of the anointed that are married....they might get upset, heheh)

I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

With Love,
EmmaKay
[/b][/quote]


Thats a good analogy, ive heard this before.

Rev 14.4 "These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women, in fact they are virgins. These follow the lamb no matter where he goes. These were taken from among mankind as first fruits to god and to the lamb.

See the way it speaks sounds literal to me, especially where it says "infact" they were "virgins" making a point, its also says they "were" past tense. But then it speaks that they were were without blemish, which would be impossible if being an imperfect human.
So perhaps it is speaking of their heavenly condition.

Thank you
Elizabeth x
[/b][/quote]

My brother used to say to me that the 144,000 were literal virgins whereas I always told him that Revelations was talking about their spiritual condition, their being virgins spiritually and not physically in the flesh.

Matthew 8:14 And Jesus, on coming into Peter&#39;s house, saw his mother-in-law lying down and sick with fever.

1 Corinthians 9:5 We have authority to lead about a sister as a wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the Lord&#39;s brothers and Ce&#39;phas, do we not?

Obviously not only was Peter married but al least some of the other apostles were also. If they had to be virgins physically, then this would disqualify them for the heavenly resurrection. Since the harlot in Revelation is false religions I would think this refers to their spiritual condition. It seems to mean they were spiritual virgins because they were not defiled by the harlots teachings. Notice Revelation 14:4-5 talks about them following the Lamb no matter where he goes and that there was no falsehood found in their mouths and they were without blemish. They kept themselves spiritually clean so they could be found without spot before the Lamb. Just a thought.

:Love: Jehovah&#39;s Blessings :Love:

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x[/b]

Hey Elizabeth!

Well, let&#39;s see....
I think...(this is my thought, other&#39;s here are much better equipped to answer, but I&#39;ll put in my two cents :) )

Not defiling themselves with women....which is interesting because "women" in rev usually is referring to false religions...So I THINK that has some correlation here. And they could be corrupted by the apostate teaching of Christendom, debased, whatever other terrible word that fits. I&#39;m not exactly SURE of where the scripture is, but it says that these people would try to fool (debase, corrupt, make them impure) Christs brothers if at all possible.
the 144,000, after they become spirit beings are no longer male or female, someone brought this up a while back, that the bible refers to "men or women" in this sense so we as humans can wrap our brains around it (which makes total sense to me)

I&#39;ve known a few Women that were of the anointed, so I know women are allowed. But being literal virgins....(don&#39;t tell anyone of the anointed that are married....they might get upset, heheh)

I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

With Love,
EmmaKay
[/b][/quote]


Thats a good analogy, ive heard this before.

Rev 14.4 "These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women, in fact they are virgins. These follow the lamb no matter where he goes. These were taken from among mankind as first fruits to god and to the lamb.

See the way it speaks sounds literal to me, especially where it says "infact" they were "virgins" making a point, its also says they "were" past tense. But then it speaks that they were were without blemish, which would be impossible if being an imperfect human.
So perhaps it is speaking of their heavenly condition.

Thank you
Elizabeth x
[/b][/quote]

My brother used to say to me that the 144,000 were literal virgins whereas I always told him that Revelations was talking about their spiritual condition, their being virgins spiritually and not physically in the flesh.

Matthew 8:14 And Jesus, on coming into Peter&#39;s house, saw his mother-in-law lying down and sick with fever.

1 Corinthians 9:5 We have authority to lead about a sister as a wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the Lord&#39;s brothers and Ce&#39;phas, do we not?

Obviously not only was Peter married but al least some of the other apostles were also. If they had to be virgins physically, then this would disqualify them for the heavenly resurrection. Since the harlot in Revelation is false religions I would think this refers to their spiritual condition. It seems to mean they were spiritual virgins because they were not defiled by the harlots teachings. Notice Revelation 14:4-5 talks about them following the Lamb no matter where he goes and that there was no falsehood found in their mouths and they were without blemish. They kept themselves spiritually clean so they could be found without spot before the Lamb. Just a thought.

:Love: Jehovah&#39;s Blessings :Love:
[/b][/quote]

Thank you,
I also thought about the apostles being married..if only the catholic church worked that one out, all the nuns, could have had babies and husbands. :icon_rolleyes:

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth x

[Elatjewel]

My Father wanted me to go into the convent near our home as this was known as a great school and though expensive would assured me of a workable life!

Well I didn&#39;t get there...............But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

The school is still there and flourishing!

Imperfection can sometimes be a way out of a life of perfect harmony.

EJ

[shikinah]

My Father wanted me to go into the convent near our home as this was known as a great school and though expensive would assured me of a workable life!

Well I didn&#39;t get there...............But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

The school is still there and flourishing!

Imperfection can sometimes be a way out of a life of perfect harmony.

EJ[/b]

You had a lucky escape.
I had a friend who stayed in a boarding school run by nuns, and she said most were lesbians, and my mother was brought up in ireland and taught by the nuns, and she said they were like the guistapo, very wicked.
I suppose what do you expect, they worship the mother of harlots, sad but true :boohoo:

Jah Bless.
Elizabeth x

[EmmaKay]

But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma

[Elatjewel]

<div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:

[EmmaKay]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:
[/b][/quote]

LOL@strange that they all like the thought of living together up high on a mountain....
Never struck me as weird....*stumped*....dunno why.

You know, I think every religion has a form of "brainwashing" going on with their young people....and older people for that matter. But just so you know, they subtley disguise "brainwash" for the term "Trained christian conscience".....I think there&#39;s a big difference.
I was thinking the other day, outloud, that I think if the meetings were anything like the first congregations...I would have loved them so much more as a kid and you wouldn&#39;t be able to keep me out of a kingdom hall now!...the only problem they had was keeping everyone from talking at once. Wouldn&#39;t that be soooo cool, being able to openly ask questions, have a bible discussion, for real. Not some guy standing at the podium and telling you what to believe....and if you question it, you&#39;re bad.
And as far as being a nun, I think I would be bitter having to wear that uniform all the time, I&#39;m sure it gets warm!
And nunneries....didn&#39;t they start out as prostitution re-form schools?
I can&#39;t remember exactly, but...I thought that the catholic church promoted (not out-right, but had an influence) prostitution, but then they tried to cover over it by opening these re-form asylums to re-form these prostitutes into chaste brides of christ....*something like that*??

Thanks EJ!

Love,
Emma

[Elatjewel]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma

[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:
[/b][/quote]

LOL@strange that they all like the thought of living together up high on a mountain....
Never struck me as weird....*stumped*....dunno why.

You know, I think every religion has a form of "brainwashing" going on with their young people....and older people for that matter. But just so you know, they subtley disguise "brainwash" for the term "Trained christian conscience".....I think there&#39;s a big difference.
I was thinking the other day, outloud, that I think if the meetings were anything like the first congregations...I would have loved them so much more as a kid and you wouldn&#39;t be able to keep me out of a kingdom hall now!...the only problem they had was keeping everyone from talking at once. Wouldn&#39;t that be soooo cool, being able to openly ask questions, have a bible discussion, for real. Not some guy standing at the podium and telling you what to believe....and if you question it, you&#39;re bad.
And as far as being a nun, I think I would be bitter having to wear that uniform all the time, I&#39;m sure it gets warm!
And nunneries....didn&#39;t they start out as prostitution re-form schools?
I can&#39;t remember exactly, but...I thought that the catholic church promoted (not out-right, but had an influence) prostitution, but then they tried to cover over it by opening these re-form asylums to re-form these prostitutes into chaste brides of christ....*something like that*??

Thanks EJ!

Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Oh Emma, shame on you for bringing this into the light! :okularnik:


I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

I think this statment is absolutly correct. There is so much confusion with religion and has been for centuries......Even when Jesus answered the Pharisies who had contempt with this King of the jews who was about to open up the teachings they disguised with spiritistic dogma!

He answered them sometimes cryptically to obscure the truth! Because Jesus knew they would not want his answers and were just playing with the onlookers.
This way he shut their mouths as to more questions and interference with his teachings.
This is only my thinking as of these things.


I hope this might help your first question Elizabeth. The scriptures are here for us today to dig deeply and find this hidden treasure............Not everyone searching will find it!

That is why we need those around us who are also digging......We can&#39;t dig this field on our own it needs a lot of time and strength. And a few heads are better than one.

Proverbs 16:16 The getting of is O how much better than gold! And the getting of understanding is to be chosen more than silver!

Love EJ :liefde020:

[Elatjewel]

Proverbs 16:16 Sorry for got the wisdom part!

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma

[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:
[/b][/quote]

LOL@strange that they all like the thought of living together up high on a mountain....
Never struck me as weird....*stumped*....dunno why.

You know, I think every religion has a form of "brainwashing" going on with their young people....and older people for that matter. But just so you know, they subtley disguise "brainwash" for the term "Trained christian conscience".....I think there&#39;s a big difference.
I was thinking the other day, outloud, that I think if the meetings were anything like the first congregations...I would have loved them so much more as a kid and you wouldn&#39;t be able to keep me out of a kingdom hall now!...the only problem they had was keeping everyone from talking at once. Wouldn&#39;t that be soooo cool, being able to openly ask questions, have a bible discussion, for real. Not some guy standing at the podium and telling you what to believe....and if you question it, you&#39;re bad.
And as far as being a nun, I think I would be bitter having to wear that uniform all the time, I&#39;m sure it gets warm!
And nunneries....didn&#39;t they start out as prostitution re-form schools?
I can&#39;t remember exactly, but...I thought that the catholic church promoted (not out-right, but had an influence) prostitution, but then they tried to cover over it by opening these re-form asylums to re-form these prostitutes into chaste brides of christ....*something like that*??

Thanks EJ!

Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Oh Emma, shame on you for bringing this into the light! :okularnik:


I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

I think this statment is absolutly correct. There is so much confusion with religion and has been for centuries......Even when Jesus answered the Pharisies who had contempt with this King of the jews who was about to open up the teachings they disguised with spiritistic dogma!

He answered them sometimes cryptically to obscure the truth! Because Jesus knew they would not want his answers and were just playing with the onlookers.
This way he shut their mouths as to more questions and interference with his teachings.
This is only my thinking as of these things.


I hope this might help your first question Elizabeth. The scriptures are here for us today to dig deeply and find this hidden treasure............Not everyone searching will find it!

That is why we need those around us who are also digging......We can&#39;t dig this field on our own it needs a lot of time and strength. And a few heads are better than one.

Proverbs 16:16 The getting of is O how much better than gold! And the getting of understanding is to be chosen more than silver!

Love EJ :liefde020:





[/b][/quote]

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?

Hi EJ,
Yes wisdom is supressed while in the truth, if you come up with a suggestion of how you see the scriptures, straight away your told its not for private inerpretation.

About a year ago while looking through the book of Isaiah, and praying for accurate truth, i realised that it was talking about Gods people today, how there would be apostacy from within, and then i found the scripture which talks about the man of lawlessness sitting in the temple of god, and related this to Jehovahs house, i told this to a brother, and he said its rediculous. Then i thought perhaps it was, until i came across this site, and couldnt believe that Robert King had similar views.
Somethings are straight forward, but where taught, its not for us to see.

Theres other things i have seen in the scriptures, which i cant believe i missed, and gives me a whole different light, but i i&#39;ll keep that to my self for now, untill someone one else mentions it. Because it would be too much for some people to comprehend.

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x


Love,
Emma

[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:
[/b][/quote]

LOL@strange that they all like the thought of living together up high on a mountain....
Never struck me as weird....*stumped*....dunno why.

You know, I think every religion has a form of "brainwashing" going on with their young people....and older people for that matter. But just so you know, they subtley disguise "brainwash" for the term "Trained christian conscience".....I think there&#39;s a big difference.
I was thinking the other day, outloud, that I think if the meetings were anything like the first congregations...I would have loved them so much more as a kid and you wouldn&#39;t be able to keep me out of a kingdom hall now!...the only problem they had was keeping everyone from talking at once. Wouldn&#39;t that be soooo cool, being able to openly ask questions, have a bible discussion, for real. Not some guy standing at the podium and telling you what to believe....and if you question it, you&#39;re bad.
And as far as being a nun, I think I would be bitter having to wear that uniform all the time, I&#39;m sure it gets warm!
And nunneries....didn&#39;t they start out as prostitution re-form schools?
I can&#39;t remember exactly, but...I thought that the catholic church promoted (not out-right, but had an influence) prostitution, but then they tried to cover over it by opening these re-form asylums to re-form these prostitutes into chaste brides of christ....*something like that*??

Thanks EJ!

Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Oh Emma, shame on you for bringing this into the light! :okularnik:


I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

I think this statment is absolutly correct. There is so much confusion with religion and has been for centuries......Even when Jesus answered the Pharisies who had contempt with this King of the jews who was about to open up the teachings they disguised with spiritistic dogma!

He answered them sometimes cryptically to obscure the truth! Because Jesus knew they would not want his answers and were just playing with the onlookers.
This way he shut their mouths as to more questions and interference with his teachings.
This is only my thinking as of these things.


I hope this might help your first question Elizabeth. The scriptures are here for us today to dig deeply and find this hidden treasure............Not everyone searching will find it!

That is why we need those around us who are also digging......We can&#39;t dig this field on our own it needs a lot of time and strength. And a few heads are better than one.

Proverbs 16:16 The getting of is O how much better than gold! And the getting of understanding is to be chosen more than silver!

Love EJ :liefde020:





[/b][/quote]
[/b][/quote]

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>But the talk was of one Nun getting married to the gardener and a few had time off and sent off somewhere to have their babies!

EJ[/b]

lol...this just does not surprise me.
Well, I guess with the Magdalene asylums, maybe it&#39;s not so surprising. Are you sure they were nuns or re-formed prostitutes?


Love,
Emma

[/b][/quote]


Hi Emma,

Is there a differense? I mean what do young women want to become nuns for! ?

Is it because they watched the Sound of Music?

When the Tibetian Monks were revolting the other day..............Did it strike you as very strange that they all like the thought of living together high up on a mountain!

To me this is all a form of power to get young people to dress in a habit of some kind and to brain wash them thinking this is what God.........Which one? Wants of them!

when thay become older and find that this is not the kind of life they had hoped for........All bitterness is spewed out in front of everyone...............A fine brainwashing system this is!

Love EJ :friday.sml: :fight.sml: :applaudit:
[/b][/quote]

LOL@strange that they all like the thought of living together up high on a mountain....
Never struck me as weird....*stumped*....dunno why.

You know, I think every religion has a form of "brainwashing" going on with their young people....and older people for that matter. But just so you know, they subtley disguise "brainwash" for the term "Trained christian conscience".....I think there&#39;s a big difference.
I was thinking the other day, outloud, that I think if the meetings were anything like the first congregations...I would have loved them so much more as a kid and you wouldn&#39;t be able to keep me out of a kingdom hall now!...the only problem they had was keeping everyone from talking at once. Wouldn&#39;t that be soooo cool, being able to openly ask questions, have a bible discussion, for real. Not some guy standing at the podium and telling you what to believe....and if you question it, you&#39;re bad.
And as far as being a nun, I think I would be bitter having to wear that uniform all the time, I&#39;m sure it gets warm!
And nunneries....didn&#39;t they start out as prostitution re-form schools?
I can&#39;t remember exactly, but...I thought that the catholic church promoted (not out-right, but had an influence) prostitution, but then they tried to cover over it by opening these re-form asylums to re-form these prostitutes into chaste brides of christ....*something like that*??

Thanks EJ!

Love,
Emma
[/b][/quote]


Oh Emma, shame on you for bringing this into the light! :okularnik:


I also think that some things in the bible are literal while others are symbolic because I (IMO) that the bible is made for those truly searching for truth, some things remain "hidden" to those not wanting it. It&#39;s like a safeguard. The bible has it&#39;s own security system! That&#39;s also why the bible says "Who is wise that may understand?" I think it&#39;s meant to be taught by someone wise so that we get it right. Of course there&#39;s probably a much deeper reason, but that&#39;s the one I always told myself.

I think this statment is absolutly correct. There is so much confusion with religion and has been for centuries......Even when Jesus answered the Pharisies who had contempt with this King of the jews who was about to open up the teachings they disguised with spiritistic dogma!

He answered them sometimes cryptically to obscure the truth! Because Jesus knew they would not want his answers and were just playing with the onlookers.
This way he shut their mouths as to more questions and interference with his teachings.
This is only my thinking as of these things.


I hope this might help your first question Elizabeth. The scriptures are here for us today to dig deeply and find this hidden treasure............Not everyone searching will find it!

That is why we need those around us who are also digging......We can&#39;t dig this field on our own it needs a lot of time and strength. And a few heads are better than one.

Proverbs 16:16 The getting of is O how much better than gold! And the getting of understanding is to be chosen more than silver!

Love EJ :liefde020:





[/b][/quote]

Your right EJ,
Where taught not to delve too much into the bible and make private assumtions of what they may mean.
I prayed last year to Jah asking him to give me accurate truth..and found the book of isaiah explaining the apostacy of gods people and the secret worshipping of baal, behand Jehovahs back by high priests. This tied in perfectly with the watch tower, and why i had seen certain symbolism in the magazines, then realised the man of lawlessness was at work in Jehovahs organisation..When i mentioned this to a brother he said i had no right to be digging into scriptures and making various assumtions..
Then i came across robert kings site and couldnt believe he was saying the same thing.
I didnt even know about them joining the U.N at the time, so this just reinfored it more.

Jehovah said dig for it as hidden treasure, and i always knew that meant reading more than the awake and watchtower..

And when it says get out of her MY people. This scripture always worried me, as Jehovah seemed to be saying HIS people, especially..you can see its speaking about all religion.
I even told my sister last year, to watch the news, how about every 3 to 4 months your going to see a JW scandle, and sure enough it happened. She said this is satan, and i said no its Jehovah exposing the badness from within.
It is Jehovah gods organisation, but his anger will rage, at their care free attitude and complacency, putting Jehovah&#39;s will on the back burner, while they persue their own agenda.

Jahs Blessings.
Elizabeth.

[Elatjewel]

The book of Revelations speak about the anointed, being VIRGINS, and not DEFILING themselves with Women..
1..Are they all men?
2..If they were women then this wouldnt make sense.
3. DEFILE, dictionary..to make unclean, or impure, to corrupt the purity of perfection, debase.

So are women seen as unclean in the bible? because if the anointed were women, it would mention, they would not be defiled by men.
Does any one understand this scripure.

Why are some scriptures seen as symbolic, while others literal?

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth x[/b]



Hi sister

You ask: Are women seen as unclean in the Bible?

Certainly there are some scriptures that point out some wickedness and rivel jealousies amoung women. But if you look at Proverbs 31:10 you can read there that this precious woman is worth more than corals................Who is finding her?

She is a woman, a wife that keeps her whole houshold warm with fine clothing and is busy with her hands and does not waste time durring the day but gets up early and starts her work!

Most women could perhaps relate to her as we all try to make our home comfortable for a good family life..................We would want our children to feel loved and warm and know how to give our husband the respect as head of the house as he is know in the gates.

She should try to be thrifty ( Save for a rainy day...As we never know what accidents might occure that will take some money out of the daily house keeping).

Her sons have pronounced her happy.............As she has given them love and tought them well. Her husband praises her as she is cleaver with her hands and has made things perhaps to sell and is a good business woman within her own household. 24

She fears Jehovah and will treat her family with love, and respect her neigbours and so not to bring down any shame on the family name! Not gadding about with a load of usless gossip!!

This type of woman is what makes a happy family.....God is perhaps saying that women have plenty to do in the work of bringing up the family and helping the husband to bring in a share of the bills for the home. She can save this up to help her sons when they are older!

She has been good to the family as is loved dearly by her houshold.

So Jehovah is bringing praise to the industrial woman and is much value to the family.

But what Emma was contibuting about the symbolic woman being false religion is also correct as she is a prostitute...............That is how that type of woman earn her daily bread! Some women perhaps have fallen into this work are mostly despised throughout the community....They are seen as unclean.........They can bring disease to the family through the husband..........This could make the wife ill or kill her!

So as Emma explained false religion has many clients waiting for her services and she is not clean and will pass on this disease to the whole family....She needs her wages and does not care where this comes from. She is not interested in family life.

So this is how Jehovah God is showing us how bad she is by what she can pass on to kill and lie and to cover over the truth because she is wicked............She has no love!

So we have two types of woman. Clean and unclean. Two religons Clean and unclean!

Jehovah God is using she as an example for false religion as many women had to prostitute themselves to survive!

Hope this helped too! EJ :MSN Vlinder:

[EmmaKay]

Theres other things i have seen in the scriptures, which i cant believe i missed, and gives me a whole different light, but i i&#39;ll keep that to my self for now, untill someone one else mentions it. Because it would be too much for some people to comprehend.[/b]

Elizabeth,

If you&#39;ve been informed of new light, please share! Jesus didn&#39;t hold back or keep his information to himself even though he knew that his disciples wouldn&#39;t comprehend. He didn&#39;t wait until someone else brought it up.

Thanks!

Love,
Emma


Edit:
PS Thanks EJ for the detailed information.

[stayawake]

Hi Folks.
It seems to me you would benifit in a study with JWs , you may have studied but seem this particular subject needs special attention.
You may request a study just on this one particular subject.
Lets face it the WT wasn&#39;t wrong on every thing and it is for certain they have the answeres that your seeking if you are really serious.
Its way too much to answer your questions with out a thourgh study on this subject as one can see you may not have gotten this far in your studies with them.
No other organization can give you the real truth on the 144,000.
Go for it you won&#39;t be sorry.
love stayawake

[EmmaKay]

Hi Folks.
It seems to me you would benifit in a study with JWs , you may have studied but seem this particular subject needs special attention.
You may request a study just on this one particular subject.
Lets face it the WT wasn&#39;t wrong on every thing and it is for certain they have the answeres that your seeking if you are really serious.
Its way too much to answer your questions with out a thourgh study on this subject as one can see you may not have gotten this far in your studies with them.
No other organization can give you the real truth on the 144,000.
Go for it you won&#39;t be sorry.
love stayawake[/b]

That&#39;s good advice stayawake, it&#39;s hard to answer one little question without going through everything that&#39;s relevant to make a full point on the subject.
Thanks!!

Love,
Emma

[stayawake]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmmaKay)</div>
That&#39;s good advice stayawake, it&#39;s hard to answer one little question without going through everything that&#39;s relevant to make a full point on the subject.
Thanks!!
Love,
Emma[/b]


Emma kay
, i am so glad you understood where I was coming from.

I was just thinking you are in a situation where you could even get the answers you wanted with out going into a study.
Your new in your neighborhood and your neighbors are JWs so there you have it.
They needn&#39;t know that you studied before , let the door open for them to do informal witnessing to you.
You may just come out and say something like, " you always wondered ,about their belief in the 144,000." I m sure they will offer you a study but you can say at the present you would just like to hear from them what they know scriptually
with out getting involved.
I am sure they would be more then happy to spend time in answering your questions. then you can share with Shikinah.

As far as new light Emma if yuu dont quite undersatnd that secerd secret (the 144,000) then how would anything more make sense,
The reason i suggest the JWs , is because other religions do not understand this sacred secret of 144,000 ruling with Christ.

love stayawake

[EmmaKay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmmaKay)
That&#39;s good advice stayawake, it&#39;s hard to answer one little question without going through everything that&#39;s relevant to make a full point on the subject.
Thanks!!
Love,
Emma[/b]


Emma kay
, i am so glad you understood where I was coming from.

I was just thinking you are in a situation where you could even get the answers you wanted with out going into a study.
Your new in your neighborhood and your neighbors are JWs so there you have it.
They needn&#39;t know that you studied before , let the door open for them to do informal witnessing to you.
You may just come out and say something like, " you always wondered ,about their belief in the 144,000." I m sure they will offer you a study but you can say at the present you would just like to hear from them what they know scriptually
with out getting involved.
I am sure they would be more then happy to spend time in answering your questions. then you can share with Shikinah.

As far as new light Emma if yuu dont quite undersatnd that secerd secret (the 144,000) then how would anything more make sense,
The reason i suggest the JWs , is because other religions do not understand this sacred secret of 144,000 ruling with Christ.

love stayawake
[/b][/quote]


heheh, my neighbors aren&#39;t witnesses, My mom is, I was raised JW, I&#39;m baptised and the whole shootin match baby! I&#39;m just disassociated right ATM....I get it, actually I think I get it way better than I ever did, that doesn&#39;t mean that I can&#39;t still learn...But, I have a huge problem writing down exactly what I mean and how it makes sense to others.....especially something like this, as it pertians to nearly every prophecy and how you have to go back and forth between prophecies to get a clear picture, and I am NOT a wit when it comes to quoting scriptures.
Do you know what I mean?? lol
It&#39;s like I have bits and pieces of a quilt in my head, every piece is part of the quilt, but I would have to sew it all together and get all of my thoughts straight to show someone else...or study with them to show them.
And I also have a huge problem keeping everything completely straight....I am working on that.
I&#39;m asking tons of questions to my Mom right now, stuff I didn&#39;t quite understand before or things that I need a little clarity on....I have so much information coming my way right now, I&#39;m trying really hard to keep it all straight. I really should slow down and just focus on one thing at a time.
But I think you were right, if you want a clear understanding and a lot of information, a study is better than anything I could probably give anyone right at this time.

[stayawake]

Sorry Emma there were several of you that came in around the same time, so it was another who moved by JWs.

But even better your moms right there for you. Timothys mom and gram raised him in the truth. There is no end to learning if one really wants to do so.

Your right your trying to jam too much in at one time ,a little bit of this and a little bit of that isn&#39;t going to make a clear picture. Take one subject at a time , until there is no more then move on to another.

The main doctrine of the bible is the ransom sacrifice of Christ. Christendem has no idea as to why Christ died for mankind, Start there.
love stayawake

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>Theres other things i have seen in the scriptures, which i cant believe i missed, and gives me a whole different light, but i i&#39;ll keep that to my self for now, untill someone one else mentions it. Because it would be too much for some people to comprehend.[/b]

Elizabeth,

If you&#39;ve been informed of new light, please share! Jesus didn&#39;t hold back or keep his information to himself even though he knew that his disciples wouldn&#39;t comprehend. He didn&#39;t wait until someone else brought it up.

Thanks!

Love,
Emma


Edit:
PS Thanks EJ for the detailed information.
[/b][/quote]

Thats true,
but i did wait until i found robert, and thats when i realised i wasn&#39;t alone. I dont like to make assumtions, incase im wrong, wouldn&#39;t want to lead anyone down the wrong path.
Ok, start reading numbers, deuteronomy, and samuel..and tell me if you notice anything which stands out at you..then if it does, do your research and you&#39;ll have your answer.
I want to see if you see what i see, then im not alone.

Jah Bless.
Elizabeth x