Loyal To The Wtbts

[DoubtingThomas]

A good friend of mine is the P.O. of a neighboring congregation. This brother has been an elder and pioneer for many years now. He has served as a temporary Circuit Overseer, and has been reaching out for the privilege of getting invited into the Circuit work full-time. After he returned from a recent training class for Circuit Overseers, I asked him how his week went. The first thing he said to me was that the WTBTS is looking strictly for “Society men” or “company men” as he put it, to get invited into the Circuit work. His statement took me by surprise. I would have thought that perhaps the WTBTS was looking for “Jehovah men” or men faithful and loyal to Jehovah, but no, they are actually saying to these potential C.O.’s that they want men who are “loyal and faithful” to the Society. I am shocked about that type of comment being made to our spiritual shepherds. It is no wonder that some elders are skinning and throwing the sheep around. Many of the elders are putting loyalty to the Society ahead of their loyalty to Jehovah and the care of His sheep.

[olrono]

<div class='quotemain'>Be glad DT that you have a friend who has the courage to tell you the truth! We should all aspire to be the same.

[Kenneth]

"As he was going the crowds thronged him. ⁴³ And a woman, subject to a flow of blood for twelve years, who had not been able to get a cure from anyone, ⁴⁴ approached from behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment, and instantly her flow of blood stopped. ⁴⁵ So Jesus said: "Who was it that touched me?" When they were all denying it, Peter said: "Instructor, the crowds are hemming you in and closely pressing you." ⁴⁶ Yet Jesus said: "Someone touched me, for I perceived that power went out of me." ⁴⁷ Seeing that she had not escaped notice, the woman came trembling and fell down before him and disclosed before all the people the cause for which she touched him and how she was healed instantly. ⁴⁸ But he said to her: "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go your way in peace."






Kenneth

[Sketch]

My dad is an elder, and has been off and on for roughly 20 years... I can honestly say that he is not a strict society man - however, this was not always the case. when i was young, he ws very VERY strict on anything that could REMOTELY be even possibly "disruptive" (he made me walk out of Star Trek IV because of all the colorfull metafors), while my mother - not a witness - gave us candy on haloween, and christmas presents...

My dad gave me a strong moral foundation, but his way of going about it was less than admirable. He was very STRONG on what the bible said - treating everything by the letter of the law (i.e. the WTS), and less than the spririt of the law. He stepped down when my oldest sister moved out - after he called her a "whore" - and within the month was expecting. being called a "whore" is not something a father should EVER say to his daughter... after that, he clamped down even HARDER on my other sister and I - which drove my sister further away from him.... He accepted the 2nd elder appt a few years later after turning several down... and has since grown to understand both HUMAN actions and the Biblical principals that should be applied. He is a GREAT elder just from what we talk about, and I know he fights for the people in his congregation. of course, it helps when he is the most experienced, and one of the elders that has been in the congregation for the longest time.... however, I still know that man i grew up with, so I don&#39;t talk to him about my personal spirituality...

I tell you this because as many problems as we all may have with some of the elders - don&#39;t get me started - there really ARE a precious few out there that care, and will fight alongside you. The new "crop" is changing, i&#39;ve seen it myself (i know of a kid who was 26 when he was appointed - not even from bethel... I laughed out loud - because i knew what he said when his guard was down)... but that doesn&#39;t mean ALL of them are company men... p

[eyes&ears]

All I have to say is:

Jeremiah 23:1-4

WOE to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasturage! is the utterance of Jehovah.

Therefore this is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said against the shepherds who are shepherding my people: YOU YOURSELVES HAVE SCATTERED MY SHEEP; AND YOU KEPT DISPERSING THEM, AND YOU HAVE NOT TURNED YOUR ATTENTION TO THEM.

Here I am turning my attention upon you for the badness of your dealings, is the utterance of Jehovah.

And I myself shall collect together the remnant of my sheep out of all the lands to which I had dispersed them , and I WILL BRING THEM BACK TO THEIR PASTURE GROUND AND THEY WILL CERTAINLY BE FRUITFUL AND BECOME MANY.

AND I WILL RAISE UP OVER THEM SHEPHERDS WHO WILL ACTUALLY SHEPHERED THEM and they will be AFRAID NO MORE, neither will they be struck with any terror, and none will be missing is the utterance of Jehovah.

Jehovah will hold those overbearing shepherds accountable for the way they have treated Jehovah&#39;s sheep. YES JEHOVAH IS A GOD OF JUSTICE AND HE WILL MAKE SURE JUSTICE IS SERVED.

SO HOLD ON TIGHT AND FOCUS ON WHAT JEHOVAH WANTS FROM US
AS WE STAND FIRM, MAKE SURE OF ALL THINGS AND STAY AWAKE AND ON THE WATCH.


PRAY INCESSANTLY, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND ARE BEING BEAT DOWN. THEY NEED PRAYERS AS WELL AS THE WHOLE ASSOCIATION OF FRIENDS STRUGGLING TO SERVE JEHOVAH.

Love out to all with lots of hugs

Eyes & Ears

[Berean]

All I have to say is:

Jeremiah 23:1-4[/b]

Yes, that&#39;s a good text, thanks for sharing that. You should also read Ezekiel 34. It describes perfectly what is happening right now, but also that Jehovah sees it and will do something about it.

[eyes&ears]

Yepper Berean,

Just finished reading book of Ezekiel and Chapter 34 was the chapter that had a profound effect on me. I had never ever understood it as I understood it this time.

I will never ever allow anyone to tell me I cannot understand Jehovah&#39;s word without their interpretation. Jehovah&#39;s Holy Spirit is very powerful and it will unlock Jehovah&#39;s word to even the smallest pea brain that may be considered insignificant to others.

I am now in the book of Daniel and if I have to read one chapter a week to get the understanding with Jehovah&#39;s help, then that is what I will do, but I will not leave Daniel until I understand what Jehovah wants Eyes & Ears to understand before I move on to visit Hosea.

Jehovah is in total control of his purpose for mankind. He will intervene when his timing is right. SO I GUESS WE ALL BETTER STAY ON THE WATCH AND HOLD ON TIGHT :D

Peace and Love to you Berean and your family

Eyes & Ears

[Nash]

It does seem to be the trend now where more and more elders are indeed becoming &#39;company men.&#39; This, sadly, will cause more problems for the WTS.

I think that the Society should reread Ezekiel 34.

Nash

[Dorcas]

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_images/1/folder_editor_images/rte-align-right.pngDear Friends,
<div align="left">Having been in the Truth for some 30 years, my heart aches for those of you having been &#39;victimized&#39; by "company men". Being a sister with an unbaptized mate put a real test on me. I don&#39;t generally advise this, but several times I went to elders in other congregations who I felt would give me a fair hearing. Oh boy -- what a hornet&#39;s nest I stirred up! I also went to the CO twice. But I got results...
What has kept me going over the years are the following verses from Isaiah 41:11-14:
"Look! All those getting heated up against you will become ashamed and will be humiliated. The men in a quarrel with you will become as nothing and perish. You will search for them, but you will not find them, those men in a struggle with you. They will become as something nonexistant and as nothing, those men who war with you. For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you, Do not be afraid. I myself will help you."
The marvellous thing is to stand back and watch Jehovah work. Even though the "company men" may try to make us look foolish, Jehovah&#39;s justice is glorious to behold, and to be used by him is such a privilege.
May Jehovah bless those of you who are standing up for what is right...
With heart-felt love, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

</div>

[Dorcas]

:Love: http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_images/1/folder_editor_images/rte-align-right.pngDear Friends,
<div align="left">Having been in the Truth for some 30 years, my heart aches for those of you having been &#39;victimized&#39; by "company men". Being a sister with an unbaptized mate put a real test on me. I don&#39;t generally advise this, but several times I went to elders in other congregations who I felt would give me a fair hearing. Oh boy -- what a hornet&#39;s nest I stirred up! I also went to the CO twice. But I got results...
What has kept me going over the years are the following verses from Isaiah 41:11-14:
"Look! All those getting heated up against you will become ashamed and will be humiliated. The men in a quarrel with you will become as nothing and perish. You will search for them, but you will not find them, those men in a struggle with you. They will become as something nonexistant and as nothing, those men who war with you. For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you, Do not be afraid. I myself will help you."
The marvellous thing is to stand back and watch Jehovah work. Even though the "company men" may try to make us look foolish, Jehovah&#39;s justice is glorious to behold, and to be used by him is such a privilege.
May Jehovah bless those of you who are standing up for what is right...
With heart-felt love, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

</div>

[Jeshurun]

:Love: http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_images/1/folder_editor_images/rte-align-right.pngDear Friends,
<div align="left">Having been in the Truth for some 30 years, my heart aches for those of you having been &#39;victimized&#39; by "company men". Being a sister with an unbaptized mate put a real test on me. I don&#39;t generally advise this, but several times I went to elders in other congregations who I felt would give me a fair hearing. Oh boy -- what a hornet&#39;s nest I stirred up! I also went to the CO twice. But I got results...
What has kept me going over the years are the following verses from Isaiah 41:11-14:
"Look! All those getting heated up against you will become ashamed and will be humiliated. The men in a quarrel with you will become as nothing and perish. You will search for them, but you will not find them, those men in a struggle with you. They will become as something nonexistant and as nothing, those men who war with you. For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you, Do not be afraid. I myself will help you."
The marvellous thing is to stand back and watch Jehovah work. Even though the "company men" may try to make us look foolish, Jehovah&#39;s justice is glorious to behold, and to be used by him is such a privilege.
May Jehovah bless those of you who are standing up for what is right...
With heart-felt love, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[/b][/quote]

Hi Dorcas

Very cool post, thank you.

I&#39;ve been flabbergasted by the "company men" since I was a little kid. I was always confounded by how Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses were the most loving people I ever met, by far, and yet when it comes to "management", it seems like a business. Slash the dissenters from the midst of the org, they promise to call but never do, and people are left gaping in wonderment how they could possibly represent Jehovah. Yet when we read of Jehovah&#39;s feeling towards them, in what they have done to the sheep, it seems as if Jehovah has each one of us in mind as he expresses his anger toward them. It&#39;s like our father has been away, and we get abused by our caretakers and wonder why our father takes so long to respond to our pleas. Then we find out he&#39;s been responding all along, we could just never understand it because every single negative scripture applies to "Christendom".

I always thought it was kind of a waste of so much of the Bible to be relentlessly pounding false religions that have been a pagan mockery of "Christianity" for 1600 years. And so many of the scriptures would just never make sense because we would say to ourselves, "Does Jehovah really care so much about Christendom&#39;s apostasy? That&#39;s funny, because I dont!"

Quite amazing how Jehovah&#39;s word has really come to life, isn&#39;t it? And how long ago was it written?!

Oh, I do remember them owning up to ONE scripture, in Isaiah, where it says: "although you got incensed at me". But of course, that was only for a little while back in 1914!

Welcome to the forum, Dorcas!

Love

Lou

[eyes&ears]

Hi Dorcas, :wave:

That is one of my favorite scriptures. That is why I keep HOLD N ON TIGHT. :ban_dance01: :D

You keep holding on also OKEY DOKEY Dorcas.
************************************************** *

Just some of my rambling thoughts here to us all.

No matter how negative things get inside the org, we know Jehovah is going to address it. It is very hard right now and the sheep and the faithful anointed are really beginning to feel the affects of the times we are living.

Jehovah has warned us, he will not do anything without telling us first. All we have to do is pay attention and stay awake and do what Jehovah has told us to do. I know we all know this, I still get a little upset at times when I do see certain things taking place. So I am just sort of rambling OKEY DOKEY.

WE HAVE TO KEEP HOLDING ON.



2TIM 3:1 BUT KNOW THIS, THAT IN THE LAST DAYS CRITICAL TIMES HARD TO DEAL WITH WILL BE HERE!!


EPH 6:11 Put on the com plete suit of armor ..............................

So how is our suit of armor, It&#39;s not all rusty is it? (hmmmmm) Perhaps while we have the time we can tighten it up, polish it up as we continue to STAND FIRM and ACTIVELY WAIT ON JEHOVAH WHILE HELPING OTHERS THE BEST WAY WE CAN.

Warm hugs to you all.

Eyes & Ears

[Kenneth]

We really need to understand where elders are coming from. It&#39;s not that the elders are uncaring and unloving but they are guided by the society on every matter. I would like to make one point though that the elder&#39;s book is not some secret manual as some would have us believe as most of the material (other than judicial maters) can be found in the Watchtower magazine.

Becoming an elder is a privilege that one doesn&#39;t acquire suddenly, it takes many years to qualify. Thus, when a brother does qualify it&#39;s a position that he guards jealously as he can loss it a lot quicker than it took him to earn it. So he has to think twice before he speaks out on matters. He sees himself under obligation to be loyal to the organization as its Jehovah&#39;s channel. Thus, when an individual err he follows the guidelines, if he doesn&#39;t his position become untenable. When we notice elders making a bad call it maybe their hands are tied. And if they protest they find themselves flying solo. It&#39;s best to have a positive view of the elders and try to remember they are working for our benefit. I know or many older ones who are fine men and are not so tainted by the company idea.

The minimum age for an elder should be about thirty five to forty. When an individual reaches about forty he has fought the battle of life on both fronts, razing children along with the finical problems and has a better understanding of peoples needs. Older men are less judgmental and are not necessarily idealists as judgment is based on life&#39;s experiences rather than a book. The Jews didn&#39;t mature until they were thirty the same age Jesus was baptized, so why do we have elders under that age. And if one reach thirty that doesn&#39;t necessarily means he can become an elder as the next few years could be seen as an apprenticeship in what it means to shepherd the congregation.


Kenneth

[eyes&ears]

Hi Kenneth,

I understand really I do. But it all sounds so sad and stressful.

Good grief to be under the microscope like that must be troublesome for the elders as it is for us that are beginning to really understand what is taking place at this time. My My My. I would imagine that it takes a certain type of individual to be in a position of leadership today to be able to function under the authority of those at Headquarters, who really believe they are doing things according to Jehovah&#39;s will.


I would also think that it must be very difficult for those elders who want to do the right thing conscience wise, but have to be in subjection to the society. Somehow something as we all are becoming more aware is terribly amiss.

But I do understand and certainly appreciate what you are saying here.
I always respect your expressions and positive outlook on things discussed. I am so glad you are here.


Eyes & Ears

[Alex]

It was while I was serving as an elder that I began to realise just how influential and strict organizational policy and guidelines are.

Every decision passed by the elder body would be by a majority vote, but if you had serious reservations or were not in full agreement with the majority, you were expected to yield submissively, for the sake of unity within the body, and unity within the congregation.

For that reason alone, you become tied to the directives regularly issued by Brooklyn HQ, and you cannot go it alone, or distant yourself from a majority decision, otherwise there is the danger of being viewed as an &#39;independent thinker&#39;, not willing to yield to the direction of God&#39;s channel, the so-called &#39;faithful and discreet slave.&#39;

Unfortunately on occasion, the words of Martin Luther King Jr have proved true with a few brothers, closely guarding their privilege of service to the detriment of themselves and others in their care:

&#39;A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right, a man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice, a man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true.&#39;

While unity is admirable, at the present time it appears it is unity for the sake of the corporate image. Body of elders can become a &#39;club for the boys&#39; and elders meetings, rather than being a time of scriptural admonition and instruction, turn into board meetings for the elite. Sad, but true at times.

Brotherly affection to all, Alex.

[eyes&ears]

Hi Alex,



It is sad very sad. I&#39;m so glad I understand what is going on now and why. But it is still all so very sad.

This scripture in Jeremiah 10:21 sometimes runs through my mind when I think of some of the Elders and others in responsible positions.

For the shepherds have behaved unreasoningly, and they have not looked even for Jehovah. That is why they have not acted with INSIGHT, and all their pastured animals have been scattered.

But I still keep holding on because I know it is to Jehovah I must look and put my total faith and trust in. I will remain and stand firm until I am directed by Jehovah to do otherwise. I know Jehovah in his due time is going to take care of all these unloving things done in his name.

Good to hear from you Alex.

Hope all is well with you and your family

Eyes & Ears

[Dorcas]

:buja_w_oblokach: Greetings to all and thanks for the warm welcome!
This on-going discussion prompted me to actually make a list of responsibilities that should be Chpt. 1 in elder training. Consider the following issues and see if you can identify with any:
Comfort
Compassion
Encouragement
Godly and brotherly love
And what do we usually get? A lecture, a book, a chapter we need to read, 1 or 2 scriptures.
Any follow through to see if you need further help???
Do we need more information or do we need comforted from the beating up the world gives us daily? Do we need a cheerleader to assure us that we can "run the race? We know what we should be doing as Christians, don&#39;t we? We just need to know that our spiritual shepherds are there for us. Reminds me of the Eastern shepherds -- each sheep is examined as it comes into the fold each night. Is the sheep wounded, ill, etc. ?? Do our shepherds see if we need TLC? Are we hurting -- has a loved one become apostate? Do we have an abusive mate?
Are our spiritual sherherds able/qualified to deal with the emotional issues in the congregation or do they avoid comforting, showing compassion, giving encouragement, showing "family" love?
A very wise, loving elder reminded me many times that the body of elders MUST take the lead rather than blame the sheep when problems arise in the congregation. That dear elder and his wife were the spiritual parents we never had. That was many years ago. I don&#39;t see much of that going on today. Yes, we have instruction talks, but don&#39;t we all learn better by seeing examples of Christian living.
Well, I&#39;ve got this out of my system and I apologize for rambling on. As you see, it is a subject close to my heart.
One last question...do some people leave the congregation because of the unloving way they have been treated, not because of doctrinal or interpretive differences of opinion?
I would appreciate any feedback as to others&#39; thoughts on this entire subject...
Thanks for listening... :Love: Dorcas

[Berean]

Well said, Dorcas. :)

[eyes&ears]

Hi Dorcas

I enjoyed your expression and agree, however, the society will be the first to tell you that they are not A SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCY. I say that because I was told that.

I have just come to accept that evil exists because Jehovah said it will exist and is allowing it at this particular time as he did in other times. When he is ready to step in and fulfill all his purpose, all this unloving crazy stuff will end. Sometimes, I rant, ramble, cry to Jehovah and then I just move on.. :)

In answer to you question as to why some leave.

My opinion only:

Truthfully, some leave because THEY ARE TIRED AND THEY JUST GIVE UP
Jehovah warned about that. So this is extremely unfortunate.

Some leave because they want to experience some worldly nonsense (especially if young and raised in truth) They might want to just plain do what they want to do without any restrictions just WALK ON THE WILD SIDE AS I CALL IT.

Some are older much older, and see that what was supposed to be did not come to pass. So they are in what I call SPIRITUAL SHOCK, they just walk around not knowing what to do with themselves now. Some are bitter, angry and feel their whole lives have been wasted.

I almost went totally there, but Jehovah pulled me out of that NEGATIVE MERRY GO ROUND. AND I AM SURE HAPPY HE DID.

Some have come to learn what most of us here have learned and they cannot handle it so they toss in the towel.

Some leave as you say because of the lack of love. That happened to me, but I was labelled as an APOSTATE. HINDSIGHT, I WISHED I HAD DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY, I WILL NEVER RUN AWAY OR LET OTHERS CONTROL ME AGAIN. BUT SOME OF US HAVE A HARD HEAD AND HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY (THROUGH THE SCHOOL OF OF HARD HEAD KNOCKS - LAUGHING).

Some are just hurt, beaten down, broken up and want to do Jehovah&#39;s will, but really and truly are confused and lost. (Been there and done that myself)

But all in all, I have found after running around in circles for several years, that the best thing for me to do is to:

Continue going to the meetings

Eat the good food only

Do not touch the spoiled food because it stinks and will make me sick

I AM WORKING TOWARDS REINSTATEMENT THEREFORE I can sit back and observe who is who and to ask Jehovah for discernment, because I DO NOT BELIEVE PEOPLE REALLY SHOW WHO THEY ARE, THEY PRESENT WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO SEE EVERYONE DOES THIS AT SOME POINT AND TIME.
So when I am reinstated, I will be able to match up behavior with what has been expressed during this observation time.



A COMEDIAN USED TO JOKE ON HIS SHOW ALL THE TIME WITH HIS CHARACTER "GERALDINE" THAT WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET "

IN SOME CASES THIS IS TRUE. BUT MY LIFE EXPERIENCES HAS TAUGHT ME THIS IS NOT AWAYS TRUE. MYSELF INCLUDED. I AM A SLOW WARMER, I DO NOT PUT ALL MY CARDS ON THE TABLE AT ONCE. I DO NOT PRESENT MY TOTAL SELF JUST AS I TOTALLY AM.

WE HUMANS ARE COMPLICATED, COMPLEX AND FULL OF DIFFERENT PERSOANALITIES (MY OPINION ONLY) AND WHATEVER SITUATION PRESENTS ITSELF, I BELIEVE WE CALL UP ON WHATEVER PERSONALITY THAT IS APPROPRIATE TO DEAL WITH AND SURVIVE, WHETHER IT IS OUR FUN, SERIOUS, SYMPATHETIC, STRONG OR MOST DOMINANT PERSONALITY.

CALL IT WHAT WE LIKE PERSONALITY DISORDER OR WHATEVER, BUT THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE, BECAUSE I SEE IT TOO MUCH IN MY DEALINGS WITH PEOPLE AND ALSO MYSELF. WE ARE SOMETHING ELSE AS HUMANS.

Be loving and patient towards all.

Keep my mouth shut until Jehovah says it is time to open it regarding what I have learned.

Pray for the whole association and stay as positive as I can.

PUT MY FULL TRUST IN JEHOVAH ONLY PERIOD.

Again, I enjoyed your expression and I am glad you joined us here.

There is a song I think Bette Midler made several years ago that says

GOD IS WATCHING US, GOD IS WATCHING US, GOD IS WATCHING US FROM A DISTANCE. (HMMMMMMM)


WE BETTER BELIEVE HE IS WATCHING, OBSERVING AND TAKING IT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL IN.


Much love to you and your family Dorcas

Eyes & Ears

[Watchful Soul]

"It does seem to be the trend now where more and more elders are indeed becoming &#39;company men.&#39; This, sadly, will cause more problems for the WTS."

I&#39;m new to posting here so please excuse the way I referenced the remark from one of the posts on this topic.

The sadness I see is that enthusiasm and spontanaity from the rank and file will diminish. The problem I already see is the guarded way in which many of us speak to our brothers and sisters. You never know who you can trust. :icon_neutral:

[Kenneth]

Hi Watchful soul and welcome

You never know who you can trust this is a sad fact.[/b]

[Dorcas]

Hi Dorcas

I enjoyed your expression and agree, however, the society will be the first to tell you that they are not A SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCY. I say that because I was told that.

I have just come to accept that evil exists because Jehovah said it will exist and is allowing it at this particular time as he did in other times. When he is ready to step in and fulfill all his purpose, all this unloving crazy stuff will end. Sometimes, I rant, ramble, cry to Jehovah and then I just move on.. :)

In answer to you question as to why some leave.

My opinion only:

Truthfully, some leave because THEY ARE TIRED AND THEY JUST GIVE UP
Jehovah warned about that. So this is extremely unfortunate.

Some leave because they want to experience some worldly nonsense (especially if young and raised in truth) They might want to just plain do what they want to do without any restrictions just WALK ON THE WILD SIDE AS I CALL IT.

Some are older much older, and see that what was supposed to be did not come to pass. So they are in what I call SPIRITUAL SHOCK, they just walk around not knowing what to do with themselves now. Some are bitter, angry and feel their whole lives have been wasted.

I almost went totally there, but Jehovah pulled me out of that NEGATIVE MERRY GO ROUND. AND I AM SURE HAPPY HE DID.

Some have come to learn what most of us here have learned and they cannot handle it so they toss in the towel.

Some leave as you say because of the lack of love. That happened to me, but I was labelled as an APOSTATE. HINDSIGHT, I WISHED I HAD DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY, I WILL NEVER RUN AWAY OR LET OTHERS CONTROL ME AGAIN. BUT SOME OF US HAVE A HARD HEAD AND HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY (THROUGH THE SCHOOL OF OF HARD HEAD KNOCKS - LAUGHING).

Some are just hurt, beaten down, broken up and want to do Jehovah&#39;s will, but really and truly are confused and lost. (Been there and done that myself)

But all in all, I have found after running around in circles for several years, that the best thing for me to do is to:

Continue going to the meetings

Eat the good food only

Do not touch the spoiled food because it stinks and will make me sick

I AM WORKING TOWARDS REINSTATEMENT THEREFORE I can sit back and observe who is who and to ask Jehovah for discernment, because I DO NOT BELIEVE PEOPLE REALLY SHOW WHO THEY ARE, THEY PRESENT WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO SEE EVERYONE DOES THIS AT SOME POINT AND TIME.
So when I am reinstated, I will be able to match up behavior with what has been expressed during this observation time.



A COMEDIAN USED TO JOKE ON HIS SHOW ALL THE TIME WITH HIS CHARACTER "GERALDINE" THAT WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET "

IN SOME CASES THIS IS TRUE. BUT MY LIFE EXPERIENCES HAS TAUGHT ME THIS IS NOT AWAYS TRUE. MYSELF INCLUDED. I AM A SLOW WARMER, I DO NOT PUT ALL MY CARDS ON THE TABLE AT ONCE. I DO NOT PRESENT MY TOTAL SELF JUST AS I TOTALLY AM.

WE HUMANS ARE COMPLICATED, COMPLEX AND FULL OF DIFFERENT PERSOANALITIES (MY OPINION ONLY) AND WHATEVER SITUATION PRESENTS ITSELF, I BELIEVE WE CALL UP ON WHATEVER PERSONALITY THAT IS APPROPRIATE TO DEAL WITH AND SURVIVE, WHETHER IT IS OUR FUN, SERIOUS, SYMPATHETIC, STRONG OR MOST DOMINANT PERSONALITY.

CALL IT WHAT WE LIKE PERSONALITY DISORDER OR WHATEVER, BUT THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE, BECAUSE I SEE IT TOO MUCH IN MY DEALINGS WITH PEOPLE AND ALSO MYSELF. WE ARE SOMETHING ELSE AS HUMANS.

Be loving and patient towards all.

Keep my mouth shut until Jehovah says it is time to open it regarding what I have learned.

Pray for the whole association and stay as positive as I can.

PUT MY FULL TRUST IN JEHOVAH ONLY PERIOD.

Again, I enjoyed your expression and I am glad you joined us here.

There is a song I think Bette Midler made several years ago that says

GOD IS WATCHING US, GOD IS WATCHING US, GOD IS WATCHING US FROM A DISTANCE. (HMMMMMMM)


WE BETTER BELIEVE HE IS WATCHING, OBSERVING AND TAKING IT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL IN.


Much love to you and your family Dorcas

Eyes & Ears[/b]
Dear Eyes n Ears,
Thank you for your candid reply. As to disfellowshipping -- sometimes we don&#39;t realize what we have &#39;til we no longer have it. Not speaking in the congregation is also a wonderful (costly) education. A sister shared with me several things: some elders&#39; WTs were still crisp, right out of the wrappers. Cliques were very apparent -- the same people talked with each other before and after meetings and the newly baptized were "dropped" after they were baptized where before they had been welcomed and encouraged.
Some of the friends on this board are in an opposite situation than yours -- we are waiting to be disfellowshipped because we are not following the "party line", especally the 1914 CE prophecies that haven&#39;t as yet taken place. They call it "causing division in the congregation".
May Jehovah bless your desire to serve him and set you free by your coming to know the "truth".
:bier: Dorcas

[Kenneth]

As for the fellow slaves who are on the outside so to speak my heart goes out to you, may Jehovah bless your integrity.



Kenneth

[Dorcas]

Dear Ones,
Lest any of you think I&#39;m "elder bashing", nothiing could be further from the truth. Our elders are under a tremendous amount of pressure -- from the world and from problems the sheep are experiencing. My son is an elder and he has responsibilities in the congregation, pressures of many sorts on the job, and his lovely wife is being treated for cancer. They have a 4 yr. old that puts the "h" in hyperactive. I know him well enough to know that he wants to serve Jehovah with all his heart. He does the best he can to meet all his responsibilities. Many of our elders and servants are struggling, trying to keep a balance. My hat is off to all the truly dedicated brothers around the earth who are trying to keep the wounded sheep calm and well-cared for. May Jehovah give our brothers the strength and wisdom (and patience) to continue in their positions.
Love to all,
Dorcas :liefde020: :liefde020:

[Sketch]

My hat is off to all the truly dedicated brothers around the earth who are trying to keep the wounded sheep calm and well-cared for. May Jehovah give our brothers the strength and wisdom (and patience) to continue in their positions.[/b]

I think thats where WE come in, in that we need to make sure we also give the elders "room to work" as thats what we expect from them. Give the bennefit of the doubt as much as possible - and only make accusations of gross misconduct when the circumstances warrant. We all are aware of what constitutes gross misconduct, and even then, there are channels to go through... even when THEY fail.... er... I mean IF they fail....

I for one try not to hold them up to a higher standard, but I do expect them to adhere to the standards that "they" (i.e. WTS) hold us to... after all, they deem themselves the "examples" to follow...

an elder should NEVER use his position for ANYTHING other than encouragement. even when making the gravest of decisions, it should come with - depending on the PERCEIVED circumstances - a firm, yet at the same time understanding frame of mind, knowing that ANYONE can make the same mistake... something about judging, lest you be judged by the same standards... and most of us judge ourselves harsher than any elder ever could...

[Dorcas]

<div class='quotemain'>My hat is off to all the truly dedicated brothers around the earth who are trying to keep the wounded sheep calm and well-cared for. May Jehovah give our brothers the strength and wisdom (and patience) to continue in their positions.[/b]

I think thats where WE come in, in that we need to make sure we also give the elders "room to work" as thats what we expect from them. Give the bennefit of the doubt as much as possible - and only make accusations of gross misconduct when the circumstances warrant. We all are aware of what constitutes gross misconduct, and even then, there are channels to go through... even when THEY fail.... er... I mean IF they fail....

I for one try not to hold them up to a higher standard, but I do expect them to adhere to the standards that "they" (i.e. WTS) hold us to... after all, they deem themselves the "examples" to follow...

Excellent, Sketch. Thanks for your wisdom.
Dorcas :MSN Vlinder:

an elder should NEVER use his position for ANYTHING other than encouragement. even when making the gravest of decisions, it should come with - depending on the PERCEIVED circumstances - a firm, yet at the same time understanding frame of mind, knowing that ANYONE can make the same mistake... something about judging, lest you be judged by the same standards... and most of us judge ourselves harsher than any elder ever could...
[/b][/quote]

[Sketch]

Excellent, Sketch. Thanks for your wisdom.
Dorcas :MSN Vlinder:[/b]

Wow... no one ever accused me of being wise.... :unsure:

[Jeshurun]

We keep saying how the Watchtower would implode and disintegrate if the 1914 doctrine were suddenly thrown out the window. I don&#39;t see it that way. I think that if the Governing Body one day decided to humble itself, get rid of all the false interpretations, apologize for the UN scandal, disfellowship all the pedophiles, make restitution to the victims, start re-instating all who have been df&#39;ed for thinking outside the "box", start calling disfellowshipped people and encouraging them, get rid of the timecards, and send their immensely talented brothers up to the podium to start discussing the real issues, as we do here on this board, and put some windows on the Kingdom Halls, I think the response would be overwhelmingly positive. I think every meeting would be an SRO crowd. I would certainly go back!

[olrono]

We keep saying how the Watchtower would implode and disintegrate if the 1914 doctrine were suddenly thrown out the window. I don&#39;t see it that way. I think that if the Governing Body one day decided to humble itself, get rid of all the false interpretations, apologize for the UN scandal, disfellowship all the pedophiles, make restitution to the victims, start re-instating all who have been df&#39;ed for thinking outside the "box", start calling disfellowshipped people and encouraging them, get rid of the timecards, and send their immensely talented brothers up to the podium to start discussing the real issues, as we do here on this board, and put some windows on the Kingdom Halls, I think the response would be overwhelmingly positive. I think every meeting would be an SRO crowd. I would certainly go back![/b]

Me too!

[DoubtingThomas]

Excuse my ignorance, but what&#39;s an SRO crowd?

[olrono]

Excuse my ignorance, but what&#39;s an SRO crowd?[/b]

Standing Room Only

[Kenneth]

We keep saying how the Watchtower would implode and disintegrate if the 1914 doctrine were suddenly thrown out the window. I don&#39;t see it that way. I think that if the Governing Body one day decided to humble itself, get rid of all the false interpretations, apologize for the UN scandal, disfellowship all the pedophiles, make restitution to the victims, start re-instating all who have been df&#39;ed for thinking outside the "box", start calling disfellowshipped people and encouraging them, get rid of the timecards, and send their immensely talented brothers up to the podium to start discussing the real issues, as we do here on this board, and put some windows on the Kingdom Halls, I think the response would be overwhelmingly positive.[/b]

[Shibboleth]

and put some windows on the Kingdom Halls,[/b]


We got windows in our halls. To many if you ask me. But at least people on the outside can look in and see we are not sacrificing children to pagan gods. :icon_razz:

[DoubtingThomas]

Our Kingdom Hall was built in the late 1970&#39;s, but it has windows. I haven&#39;t seen any windows in the newer USA Halls though. But the newer ones built in Africa have lots of "open air" windows. Some have no doors too!

[Jeshurun]

Our Kingdom Hall was built in the late 1970&#39;s, but it has windows. I haven&#39;t seen any windows in the newer USA Halls though. But the newer ones built in Africa have lots of "open air" windows. Some have no doors too![/b]

I&#39;m blessed to be able to live in a fairly upscale area of Long Island. There is a Kingdom Hall at the edge of my development. It&#39;s a rectangular box with a flat roof and long, windowless walls of stucco.

Now, I&#39;m not saying our Kingdom Halls should have spires like La Sagrada Familia, but if I could design the Kingdom Halls, I&#39;d make them all resemble Solomon&#39;s Temple, while blending them into their surroundings.

After all, why shouldn&#39;t Jehovah have a beautiful church, too?

[Jinnvisible]

I&#39;m blessed to be able to live in a fairly upscale area of Long Island. There is a Kingdom Hall at the edge of my development. It&#39;s a rectangular box with a flat roof and long, windowless walls of stucco.

Now, I&#39;m not saying our Kingdom Halls should have spires like La Sagrada Familia, but if I could design the Kingdom Halls, I&#39;d make them all resemble Solomon&#39;s Temple, while blending them into their surroundings.

After all, why shouldn&#39;t Jehovah have a beautiful church, too?[/b]

Hi Jeshurun,

Quite frankly that is where alot of the trouble starts.

Jehovah`s Church or temple is now a living temple of worshipers.

I`ve always prefered the kingdom halls to crass ornimentation. I love the simplicity of them. They often look like barns or tents which seems apropriate for where grain is yet to be threshed and separated from weed.

The kingdom halls can be built very quickly as well which really serves the purposes of a fast movement of spiritual activity. Quite frankly it is just as well that they are simple, - because they will most likely fall into disuse, well before the end of this system. I went to a memorial service held in a civic building with papal crowns built into the brickwork. If a stabble was good enough for the messiah to be born in then take me to the trough.

Bethel in Brooklyn is very sophisiticated not neccesarily in the design of the building but in its function. It has its own electric generators, makes its own ink and glue. It has technology to translate writting into many different languages all at the same time.

And it can still all come to nothing for its own glory. Some of its works will last.

[olrono]

I think you are forgetting in the inter cities and in the rural for that matter, there is an increase of vandalism, and all those microphones and sound system do cost money. I helped my Father built two Kingdom hall’s in the 1950’s that had windows, I got back from Los Angeles last week and noticed that they had “stucco-ed” them over.