Discrepancy Between Paul And Jesus?

[Sketch]

Hello all, I am trying to rectify some issues I am having with some of the things that Paul said, with the examples that Jesus showed us...

At times, Paul seemed to be very harsh with the members of the congregations, while other times, he was more patient with them. One instance is that which the WTS has based on disfellowshipping - or to be thrown out of the congregation. Jesus on the other hand was always tolerant of individual shortcomings and failures.... as long as that person was humble and repentant... and if they weren't he moved on. He gave people their choice and then moved on.... only directly questioning those spiritual leaders "taking the lead".
Paul said that we should treat everyone with love, taking care of our brothers in faith first - I've not read ANYWHERE where Jesus put anyone above another in the way they should be treated - in fact, it was just the opposite - love your enemy.

Can anyone please explain these things that seem like discrepancies??

[Berean]

Like Jesus, Paul was talking about unrepentant sinners, meaning people who know what God requires of us, yet willingly turn their back on Him. Examples of this in Jesus' time were the young man who wasn't willing to part with his riches, Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus knew to be a follower of the Devil, and like you said, the Pharisees, and also the money changers in the temple. Jesus never hesitated to judge those people who were unrepentant and didn't take the necessary actions to change their lives, but he was also forgiving when people made mistakes they would actually regret later on, as was the case with Peter, for instance.

Also, like Jesus said that we must do our best to retrieve a lost sheep, Paul encouraged us to be forgiving if someone does show remorse, in 2 Corinthians 2:5-11, even though it may be hard to do so, but not doing so would in fact result in, as Paul puts it, being 'overreached by Satan'.

[Utuna]

Hello all, I am trying to rectify some issues I am having with some of the things that Paul said, with the examples that Jesus showed us...

At times, Paul seemed to be very harsh with the members of the congregations, while other times, he was more patient with them. One instance is that which the WTS has based on disfellowshipping - or to be thrown out of the congregation. Jesus on the other hand was always tolerant of individual shortcomings and failures.... as long as that person was humble and repentant... and if they weren't he moved on. He gave people their choice and then moved on.... only directly questioning those spiritual leaders "taking the lead".
Paul said that we should treat everyone with love, taking care of our brothers in faith first - I've not read ANYWHERE where Jesus put anyone above another in the way they should be treated - in fact, it was just the opposite - love your enemy.

Can anyone please explain these things that seem like discrepancies??[/b]

Dear Sketch,

One factor that we can take into consideration while comparing the methods of Jesus and Paul's is that Jesus could read the hearts of his interlocutors. Paul couldn't. Jesus could quickly resolve issues and ask pertinent questions according to what he read in the heart of the person so as to incite him/her to reveal his true personality. Paul couldn't, he was just a imperfect human, with limited discernement. Hence, for practical reason, humans may need to resort to disfellowshipping so that time or hardships do the distinction between weakness and wickedness. That's maybe, according to me, one reason among others regarding the difference between Paul's and Jesus' methods.

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"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Mandela]

On reading First Corinthians, Paul wrote to a congregation that faced serious issues - immorality, developing sectarianism, etc. He had to be firm (not harsh, in my opinion) in renouncing wrongdoing (e.g. the man who took over his father's wife) and requiring that the person be disciplined. Of course, Paul was not at par with Jesus as some have already commented. Yet unarguably, he was directed by the Holy Spirit in requiring that a certain course of action be taken to redress matters in the congregation as a means of maintaining its spiritual well-being. As I read Second Corinthians, I see Paul going more than the extra mile to reassure the congregation of his love and compassion, even for the person whose ex-communication he had initially recommended. One would assume that spiritual calm had been restored to the congregation by the time he wrote his second epistle.

Indirectly addressing the issue of discrepancy, Jesus' messages to the seven congregations in Revelation reveal his readiness to act to protect the congregation from spiritual contamination, and to deal firmly with wrongdoing. I see little contradiction in comparing Paul and Jesus in that respect.



This is not to say that I agree totally with some of the positions that Paul sometimes took, even though in some instances he clearly said his positions were his, not the Lord's. Overall, he remains my most favorite writer (Greek Scriptures), followed by James.

[Utuna]

Dear Sketch and Mandela,

In fact, there was a big difference between Paul and Jesus. Which one ? Jesus was perfect and his teaching as well.

Sketch, you say : "Paul said that we should treat everyone with love, taking care of our brothers in faith first - I've not read ANYWHERE where Jesus put anyone above another in the way they should be treated - in fact, it was just the opposite - love your enemy. "

Jesus said to love one another, and to love our enemy as well. Hence, to love one another depends on who you mean to be the other one... John 13:35 says : "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." Nevertheless, the parable of the Samaritan has some kind of an alternative answer, I think. Love is not restricted towards our fellow believers, but to everyone (Prov3:27). Did not Jesus add "extensions" to the Law regarding our love for our fellows and porneia for example (Matt5:32;19:9) ? The ultimate LAW is LOVE. Period ! When Jesus taught people, he never used sentences such as "Do it ! Don't do that ! It's forbidden !" but he used illustrations and parables, such as the Samaritan. He always tried to emphasize the role of love as the engine of our behaviour and decisions. We mustn't obey Jesus because he said so and so, but we'll obey him because we have understood that LOVE is the utmost basis of our every actions.

Paul was imperfect and was grown up under the Law and as a Pharisee. Even if he was a Christian, anointed, and wrote his letters under the direction of the Holy Spirit, his cultural background showed through (Torah vs Mishnah). Furthermore, his letters had a practical application because they were an answer to practical situations (disfellowshipping...). His letters tell about what he was thinking according to specific situations. Do we have a full knowledge of what Paul was thinking ? Please, tell me then where the letter to Laodicea is (Colossians 4:16) ?

What I want to explain is that we must take into consideration Paul's letters through the prism of Jesus' teaching. However, it's clear that Paul demonstrated as well much love towards unbelievers, thus showing how much he had understood Jesus' teaching. His letters are practical ways to apply Jesus' words, they may serve as exemples for us, but are they equals to Jesus' teaching ? Our foremost lighthouse is LOVE !

----------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Tsaphah]

Hello Sketch,
There are no discrepancies in God’s word. There only appear to be, due to our lack of understanding. As we gain more knowledge and understanding through study, we will come to find this true.
It is important to remember that Jehovah God used these men as secretaries, to write his words for us. If what they wrote was not according to His will, they would not have stood the test of time. They correspond with all the other examples written about in the bible. Look at the example written in Joshua, chapter 7. There are plenty of other examples of how Jehovah feels about wrong conduct and the effects of it. Read the letter from Jude. Also read the letters from Peter, Titus, and John. (2 Pet 2:2, Titus 3:10-11, 2 John 9-11) They are all in agreement.
As for Jesus using the term “love your enemies”, you must understand the context of what was being said. Jesus used the Greek word “agapao” (love) which "has the meaning of a caring, or to be fond of out of a common principle." He also used the Greek word, “echthros” (enemies) which has the meaning; “used of men as at enmity with God by their sin”, or “opposing (God) in the mind”. When you take those three words out of the context of the conversation, it can be misunderstood. The rest of the sentence went on to say, “and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.”
Also Jesus uses the same word, “echthros” to say that these enemies would “be persons of his own household.” (Matt 10:36) So Jesus was saying that hating your enemies was wrong and that we should pray for them. He did not say to be friends with them. These are all principles that underlay what was meant. Whether it was Jehovah, Moses, Jesus, or any of the other writers of God’s word, there is always the founding principles of what is written.


Agape,
Tsaphah

[Mandela]

Utuna,

I agree with your reasoning - the all and all is love. Jesus showed the perfect example in that regard. Paul and all other humans who so wish can only attempt to imitate Jesus - but what poor followers we all are! Even if we were given eternity, we would still be lacking in comparison with the love first shown by Jehovah and replicated by his Son.

[PRAYSER]

One thing that most people overlook about Jesus during his life and ministry in the nation of Israel is that Jesus had no authority over anyone or anything within the nation of Israel. Jesus and his disciples were subject to the Jewish authorities.

Jesus pointed this out when a man asked Him to make the man's brother share his inheritance.

However the Christian congregations after Pentecost were distinct as the body of Christ and the apostles and the elders had real authority within the congregations and the responsible to feed and protect Jesus' sheep.

Respectfully

DJABRIL

[SlaveForJah]

One thing that most people overlook about Jesus during his life and ministry in the nation of Israel is that Jesus had no authority over anyone or anything within the nation of Israel. Jesus and his disciples were subject to the Jewish authorities.

Jesus pointed this out when a man asked Him to make the man's brother share his inheritance.

However the Christian congregations after Pentecost were distinct as the body of Christ and the apostles and the elders had real authority within the congregations and the responsible to feed and protect Jesus' sheep.

Respectfully

DJABRIL[/b]

Interesting thought, Djabril. Thank you for that.


Agape

SlaveForJah