Pestilences, Money And The Great Tribulation

[Eli's Foe]

"........and there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages," Luke 21:11

"Into the streets they will throw their very silver, and an abhorrent thing their own gold will become." Eze 7:19

The Daily Mail today reports in its City & Finance section on the estimated cost of pandemic flu hitting Britain. The article highlights the Financial Services Authority (FSA) concerns that businesses must be prepared for huge absenteeism and the financial impact on insurance companies, travel companies and the like.

The report quotes the startling difference between the UK government's estimate of 50,000 deaths due to such a pandemic and that of experts who predict up to 750,000 deaths in the UK alone. The FSA recognises that sentiment would be hit hard, prompting investors to sell equities in favour of gold and other precious metals. Recession on a scale not seen since the 1930's is a real possibilty, they say. The World Bank estimates the bill for bird flu could be as high as GBP 321 bn globally. An expert is quoted in the article as saying the City (of London) is well prepared but concedes that "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy".

It is well documented by ewatchman that the financial situation globally and especially in the USA is precarious. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that as and when the aforementioned pandemic arises, if it is coupled with military action on a large scale, or a massive terrorist attack, or an earthquake in Tokyo or any other range of possibilities, the plans in London, New York and other major financial centres will indeed not survive contact with reality.

The conequences of such a pandemic alone, where the world is plunged into a deep recession, up to 50% of people remain at home rather than going to work (HSBC is working on a business continuity plan which assumes this level of absenteeism), give some idea of the impact of any other cataclysmic event on this old system. Indeed should war begin first, it is easy to see how the consequences of such a pandemic would be unchecked. It is sobering to contemplate just how shattering the Great Tribulation will be. We know all too well how the WTS will be dealt with, but against the wider backdrop of events we can only wonder how anyone can survive.

I wonder if we shouldn't be a little more proactive in reaching out to the brothers and sisters in the congregations in some way, right now? I understand all too well the desire not raise our heads too far above the parapet for fear of disfellowshipping etc - but in truth, I wonder how many will hear, if the volume of the alarm is not raised now, whilst they can hear it. Even if they reject our new understanding of the outworking of Jehovah's judgement, perhaps they will at least remember when the terrible events predicted begin to unravel?

EF

[clay]

" Matthew 24:21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, will occur again.
22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved: but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

I have learned so much from all you here, and am grateful for the insight-in-process. Guess staying within the congregation is one way we can be a support when the time comes, and show love. That is what I'm trying to do, anyway.

Eli's Foe wrote: "I wonder if we shouldn't be a little more proactive in reaching out to the brothers and sisters in the congregations in some way, right now? I understand all too well the desire not raise our heads too far above the parapet for fear of disfellowshipping etc - but in truth, I wonder how many will hear, if the volume of the alarm is not raised now, whilst they can hear it. Even if they reject our new understanding of the outworking of Jehovah's judgement, perhaps they will at least remember when the terrible events predicted begin to unravel? "

Oh Yeah, I think they will remember! But where I am I think I have gained unwanted attention for trying to crack some of the JW/WTS Loyalists by my ventures into thought provoking questions and comments that are viewed as 'irregular'. If you can figure out a way to do this that would be great as far as I'm concered..open to suggestion!
lump of clay

[DoubtingThomas]

You raise a very good question here Eli's Foe. It is one I think about often too. Do we risk getting the Big DF by speaking out now, or do we wait? I wrestle with that question myself. There are some in the congregation I have tried to be proactive with and speak to about these things, but so far I did not feel the time was right for them to hear these things. I have mentioned some of e-watchman to one of my daughters. She is inactive in the congregation at this time, but I do not want her to lose faith in Jehovah, even if the organization has dissapointed her. My other daughter is a pioneer, and I know she would not be receptive to hearing anything negative about the WTBTS at this time. So for me personally, I will just wait with each individual I come into contact with for the right time to speak up, rather than risk boldly declaring these things and getting DF'd. Is that selfish on my part? I honestly don't know. But I think I can do more good from working within the walls of the WT, than from the outside - at least at this time. Now when those white-washed walls of the Watchtower come collapsing down, I will most certainly feel compelled to speak out at that time.

[Watchful Soul]

Luke 21:25 and 26 speaks of anguish of nations not knowing the way out and of men becoming faint out of fear of the things coming upon the inhabited earth. Knowing the truth about why mankind has reached the cris stage it now finds itself in is certainly a great blessing and comfort. There isn't much we can do (or should do) to make the world a better place but we can take the "Good News" to others so they can enjoy the same spiritual comfort we do.

[Jeshurun]

Eli's Foe wrote: "I wonder if we shouldn't be a little more proactive in reaching out to the brothers and sisters in the congregations in some way, right now? I understand all too well the desire not raise our heads too far above the parapet for fear of disfellowshipping etc - but in truth, I wonder how many will hear, if the volume of the alarm is not raised now, whilst they can hear it. Even if they reject our new understanding of the outworking of Jehovah's judgement, perhaps they will at least remember when the terrible events predicted begin to unravel? "

Oh Yeah, I think they will remember! But where I am I think I have gained unwanted attention for trying to crack some of the JW/WTS Loyalists by my ventures into thought provoking questions and comments that are viewed as 'irregular'. If you can figure out a way to do this that would be great as far as I'm concered..open to suggestion!
lump of clay[/b]

Aside from making any suggestion that the Tower's collapse precedes BTG's destruction, I wouldn't hesitate to say things that will get people thinking about the different possible scenarios that we may be facing. They certainly can't drag you in front of a JC for asking what might happen if a financial collapse causes Bethel to shut down. Also, I would ask people how they expect that all of Babylon the Great will be utterly destroyed by an impotent and ineffective UN while the WTBTS remains unscathed clear through until Armageddon. That in itself is a preposterous assumption.

It isn't like the Witnesses have no clue that the GT is upon us, they know. What they don't know is that there ain't gonna be any watching the carnage from the sidelines of spiritual paradise. My mom tells me the Society is beating that drum louder than ever.

Jesus description of the last days is very detailed and specific about the utter madness that will be transpiring. Now if you want to get bold, and by no means am I suggesting to speak to any elders, but if you have friends that you can talk to that are not the type to go running to rat you out, ask them exactly when this was fulfilled:

<sup>

34</sup> Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. ³⁵ For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. ³⁶ Indeed, a man&#39;s enemies will be persons of his own household. ³⁷ He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. ³⁸ And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Of course, the Society says that this has been fulfilled among families of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses. Oh really? How many Witnesses have been killed by their family members???? I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s never happened, but this is a Biblical prophecy! Let&#39;s wake up!

Just a few thoughts. :187:

Agape

Lou

[Nambo]

Now my view of us here and this site is we are only 51 and the brothers are what?, 6 million?

I have faith that Jehovah will do something to ensure that his people who would worship him rather than the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, or the wild beast, will be shown the way.

Maybe Brother King will turn out to be one of the two Witnesses and all of us who have associated with him will recieve a huge portion of Holy Spirit to help in his work, but when the time comes,and Iam sure Jehovah will reveal it to you.
Despite the wolves in the flock, I still feel it a safe place for Christians to be, Iam not sure those who still attend sould put themselves in a position to be DFed untill they are sure Jehovah wants them to.

The way I see it, either the JWs will muddle along untill they are herded into the concentration camps for not bowing down to the image, or,

the Watchtower gets exposed as a fradulent religion and THEN the brothers and sisters are going to really need our help in coming to terms with whats been going on and that, just as we have learnt here, IT IS JEHOVAH YOU SHOULD BE SERVING, NOT, THE WTBTS.

Those of you who have been cautious as Doves and remained in the congregations will be in the ideal position to help your lost and confused Brothers, dont endanger that position yet.
As for me, I still have a telephone list of the very many friends I had.
Or maybe I will be there with them in the concentration camps?

What we can do now, and for which Iam deeply gratefull to you all encluding the ones from the old board and especially Robert, is this site has helped me realise that the WTBTS dont own Jehovah, and they are certainly not infallible, so its helped me realise that just because Iam no longer "in the Truth", doesnt mean I cannot still have a relationship with God and that hes automatically going to kill me.

So

What you can do know is, those on the inside who are having thier faith or Love for God spoilt by the actions of the organisation, they are the ones that we can help now by maybe bringing them here, or at least showing them they can worship Jehovah without having to worship the golden calf.



Now, money.

I dont know exactly how it works, something along the lines of Global Bankers such as the Rothchilds and Rockerfellars, they print worthless bits of paper that they do not have the physical colaterel, ie gold and silver, to back up.
They lend this worthless money to people and governments.
When these people die or goverments fall or the monetary system fails as in the 1920s, you are still in thier debt, they can collect your pysical assets such as your house, to pay off your debts.
Hence they can swap paper rubbish for items or true worth....or something.

Basically, wars, pestilence, monetary collapse, these guys profit, by a lot, thats why they help arrange such callamities.

Now Pestilence,
Unless you are standing in the line at the doctors behind Tony Blair or George Wyer, I would be a bit wary about getting your vaccine against bird flu, some say its not the bird flu that will kill you, its the vaccine.

Remeber one of the stated aims of the Illuminati is to reduce the worlds population by about 80%.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Thanks everyone for your replies

The reason that we partly raised the question on what we should do with the knowledge that we have, was partly down to having listened to Roberts &#39;Word from the author&#39; Video again.

He had been asked how we could the readers and beleivers could play a part or help. He suggested that maybe we could buy some copies of the book Jehovah Himself has become King and give a copy either secretly or personally to a Circuit or District overseer, an elder or a book study conductor. This set my mind thinking that if Robert suggested that we give a copy out without trying to hide who it was from, surely we would be making our stand quite clear, as to where we stand.

Of course I realise that this could ultimately lead to our being DF but nonetheless it is something that has been playing on both my husband and my mind at present.

As we have not attended a meeting since December (might I add nothing at all initially to do with finding Roberts site) we do find ourselves in a situation of whether to return or to start being pro-active with what we have learned.

E.F

[Kenneth]

We will have plenty of opportunity to become proactive when the end comes in giving an explanation as to why it hasn&#39;t worked out the way they planed it.

Kenneth

[Kenneth]

Also, I would ask people how they expect that all of Babylon the Great will be utterly destroyed by an impotent and ineffective UN while the WTBTS remains unscathed clear through until Armageddon. That in itself is a preposterous assumption.[/b]

This statement is only one of the many that JWs believe. The bottom line is once you start to rip apart the assumptions there not much logic to any of it. I have lost count of the amount of brothers I have asked how it will happen, and they have no answer. They use the scripture in Revelation 17 where Gods put into their heart to carry out his will, the destruction of religion. Even when Cyrus brought an end to Babylon there was a progressive chain of events that led to its fall. When I was in the mindset I just believed that one day I would awake to here that religion had gone. We would then use the book study centres as the interior room of refuge and sail on though to the end. The latest Watchtower will only prove to reinforce that they are the oracle and know best.


Kenneth</span>

[Gabriel]

If you guys dont mind me adding a thought,I really dont think that we need to worry about what to say. Jehovah has already told us that he doesnt do anything without revealing it first. So taking this into concideration, I believe that Jehovah will cause the Truth to be known about whats going on within the WBTS so that all can clearly see whats been truely going on behind the closed doors of the watchtower. This will cause the brothrs and sisters to ask questions and to be very vocal about the Watchtower dealings. Then Thats when I believe that the very thing you guys have been praying about regarding "what should I do?, Should I speak out?" will be answered. That will be Jehovahs cue to us NOWS THE TIME! at that point when the watchtower begins to go down there will be no questions as to why. Just my thoughts.

[eyes&ears]

WELL HULLO THERE LV :y: :D

Amos 3:7 was the first scripture that came to my mind when reading this topic.

I don&#39;t just apply this scripture to the leadership. I apply it in things that I do also. I do not believe that Jehovah would NOT TELL us what to do when it is time to do it.

But it took me awhile to understand this for myself. What it has done is given me a peaceful calm in matters of what should I do when and how I will react during times of persecution/GT/Armageddon, etc.

Also coming from the platform lately is lots of discussion on what we may perhaps go through during the times I have mentioned above. Years ago, this used to scare the socks off me.

But since I have matured in most of these areas, this kind of if you are not going out in service as much, or slowing down or not coming to the meetings stuff does not scare me as much. I know what I am doing right now is what I should be doing and what I can do.

It is not that I do not appreciate all these things, it is if we are doing things out of routine/route and not out of love, just out of fear then .............well Jehovah can see deep inside us.

So after saying all that I will wait until Jehovah tells me personally OKEY DOKEY Eyes and Ears, here is what I WANT YOU TO DO, NOW MOVE IT......... I WILL THEN MOVE. Until that time NOPE, I WILL WAIT ON JEHOVAH. I also now understand when Jehovah is speaking and when it is not Jehovah who is speaking. This is critical.

If we do not understand this we will be flip flopping back and forth and wondering this and wondering that. I am too old to be doing all that. I simply just do what I do, and after praying, I meditate and wait, sometimes actively and sometimes just wait. IT IS WORKING.

I am not belittling the conversation here. Just expressing myself.

This is just what I will do. Jehovah will deal with each of us as he sees what we can handle and where we are the most useful. This is what I believe. JUST MY OPINION AGAIN OKEY DOKEY. I know they are ony worth a dime. (smile)


Love out to all my family here as always.

Eyes & Ears

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

"considering that Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses believe that Christ&#39;s presence already began back in 1914, that prevailing assumption will undoubtedly prevent a sizable number from recognizing and accepting the sign of Christ&#39;s actual presence. For instance, in the event of another outbreak of global war, perhaps involving the use of nuclear weapons, accompanied by pandemics and food shortages, how many of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses would have the spiritual insight to discern that such a development more precisely fulfills the prophecy of Christ&#39;s parousia? In that sense the ridiculers could very well be those who have come to believe that Christ&#39;s presence has already begun and the any future wars and pandemics are not out of the ordinary, hence the response -- "all things are continuing exactly the same as from creation&#39;s beginning." "

The above quote is derived from ewatchman&#39;s latest response to a question regarding 2 Peter 3:10.

In the light of these comments, are we still to believe it is appropriate to wait until the GT - when they will not listen?

If you are reading this discussion Robert, are you in agreement with the thought that your role is primarily to warn the Annointed, and we collectively should wait on Jehovah, or are you advocating as much of a warning as each feels able to give is appropriate?

Please understand everyone, that I am not suggesting any of you are wrong in what you have said. I personally just have the nagging doubt that in saying nothing I am following the course of Jonah. Of course I have read the prophesies as you have, and I am aware that the evil slave will not change course, that the love of the greater number must cool off etc. Ultimately perhaps this is a personal question for each one.

From my wife first finding this site, and together studying ewatchman&#39;s essays etc and reading the book, we have now told my son, my married daughter and her husband and they are all convinced. Now I know that we are fortunate in this respect, nevertheless surely it stands to reason that we cannot be alone in our little corner of the globe who can be convinced, if only someone shows us. I was never suggesting that we all had to show our colours openly as it were, but perhaps more letter writing etc could yield results? Just a thought...

Where are the 60,000+ who have read the book?

EF

[Kenneth]

Eli&#39;s Foe






What do you suggest we do? I don&#39;t mean to sound flippant about it, but I&#39;ve tried talking to my wife; I may as well have talked to the wall








Kenneth

[juffowup]

The first thing I would do is set out a massive letter campaign to all the elders I have known in the past twenty years or so. Much of it would be based on why I was disfellowship in the fist place and would include pertinent essays written by Brother King. That would be a regular occurrence. Even though it would not be my intention to stumble the brother/sisters they to would receive letters explaining why I have been disfellowshipped.[/b]

This would no doubt stumble many. As we&#39;ve seen leaving the congregation usually does not end in the ideal outcome. I&#39;m still unsure why you would consider this as an action.

To me, if I am disfellowshipped, it will probably be because i was indescreet about who I talked to and when and how. If I am disfellowshipped, I will not be in a position to help my family or friends should they need it. Being proactive, in this case, means losing the ability to reason with and strengthen any of my brothers and sisters. I don&#39;t see this as a benefit.

I think the answer lies with the internet. During the time of the end, we have this marvelous tool of coordination and communication that cannot be shutdown by any one single entity. If ones are having doubts or have their faith shaken, they are only one google search away from having their questions answered. The days of sandwich boards and bullhorns are over.

[Kenneth]

Yes you are correct if I were to write it would be to the elders and probably them only. I just got carried away. I have deleted the post.









Kenneth

[juffowup]

...from my wife first finding this site...[/b]

This is what I don&#39;t understand. You were led to this. Who led you? Your wife? Who led her? At some point, Jehovah is who is leading and enabling understanding. We can stand ready to do what he wills of us, but for me, his will at this point for what I should be doing is unclear. If others are sure, then by all means, do Jehovah&#39;s will. But make sure of that before doing something rash. Being a long time reader of this site, I have seen all too often ones come and burn with zeal about opening people&#39;s eyes, get cast out, and then the bitterness and recriminations begin.

Be careful, my brothers.

[Kenneth]

Juffowup

I should have been ashamed of the post and I am, thanks for putting me right as you are correct.



kenneth

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Kenneth,

I wont post on this topic again. No offence was intended to any of you, I was merely trying to reason on the matter and welcomed everyone&#39;s input. I have been a Witness for twenty years, I recognise that not everyone will be responsive, if there is one thing you learn in the ministry it is that simple fact. I am sorry if anything I have said or inferred differs with the majority view. As I said earlier, I guess it is a personal matter. I am glad however that Robert was willing to put himself on the line or I wouldn&#39;t know what I know now.

EF

[Jeshurun]

Kenneth,

I wont post on this topic again. No offence was intended to any of you, I was merely trying to reason on the matter and welcomed everyone&#39;s input. I have been a Witness for twenty years, I recognise that not everyone will be responsive, if there is one thing you learn in the ministry it is that simple fact. I am sorry if anything I have said or inferred differs with the majority view. As I said earlier, I guess it is a personal matter. I am glad however that Robert was willing to put himself on the line or I wouldn&#39;t know what I know now.

EF[/b]

EF, we all understand your frustration. I only found e-watchman around the beginning of November. At first I was like a pent-up lion, pacing back and forth trying to figure out who I was going to call. In time you will move past that.

Juffowup has some great points, we have to rely on Jehovah. I know in my heart that Jehovah pulled me onto e-watchman by my nose, there&#39;s no other way to explain it. He will without fail collect each and every one of his sheep.

The main work we are preparing for will come once the GT has started. Everyone has to get the warning, and that&#39;s an awful lot of work. You will be part of it! Just hang in there, continue gaining knowledge, and trust in Jehovah!

Agape!

Lou

[olrono]

<div class='quotemain'>The first thing I would do is set out a massive letter campaign to all the elders I have known in the past twenty years or so. Much of it would be based on why I was disfellowship in the fist place and would include pertinent essays written by Brother King. That would be a regular occurrence. Even though it would not be my intention to stumble the brother/sisters they to would receive letters explaining why I have been disfellowshipped.[/b]

This would no doubt stumble many. As we&#39;ve seen leaving the congregation usually does not end in the ideal outcome. I&#39;m still unsure why you would consider this as an action.

To me, if I am disfellowshipped, it will probably be because i was indescreet about who I talked to and when and how. If I am disfellowshipped, I will not be in a position to help my family or friends should they need it. Being proactive, in this case, means losing the ability to reason with and strengthen any of my brothers and sisters. I don&#39;t see this as a benefit.

I think the answer lies with the internet. During the time of the end, we have this marvelous tool of coordination and communication that cannot be shutdown by any one single entity. If ones are having doubts or have their faith shaken, they are only one google search away from having their questions answered. The days of sandwich boards and bullhorns are over.
[/b][/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in the “Inter-net”, don’t think for a second they couldn’t shut it down in an instant. I say, take advantage of it wail we can!

[Kenneth]

I won&#39;t post on this topic again.[/b]

The problem is some of this stuff is boiling in our blood. I have never have opportunity to discuss it with anyone. The minute you raise the subject you come under suspicion. The topic is emotive, and for me it must be approaching three years that I first discovered e-watchman. However, the more I read the more indignation I feel to the point I just want to yell it all out. So EF I appreciate where you are coming from on this one as so many of us are in the same boat. The post I made that I have now deleted, it was just a manifestation of my frustration, just a flare-up that has resulted form my dissatisfaction of the whole mess we find ourselves in. "I guess it is a personal matter" No we are all involved in this one and the best way to deal with it is to be an encouragement to others here.

Kenneth