Someones Missing

[Nambo]

I see we are down to 49 again.
Who left and why?
:boohoo:

[stayawake]

I see we are down to 49 again.
Who left and why?
:boohoo:[/b]




Nambo, I think the way this works is the board is cleaned out each month, and if one doesnt post that month, then that one has to reregester again.
I know i have some of this right. :buja_w_oblokach:
love stayawake

[Administration]

The number of members will vary from month to month, and it has never been our goal to boast over numbers on the Discussion Board.

Accounts that do not have any posts associated with them are removed after 7 days (if someone doesn't feel compelled to participate in the discussions, there is no need for registering for an account in order to enjoy the discussions, for example). Accounts that go inactive beyond 30 days are removed unless we are notified that the person will be away.

Oftentimes, a person will register, post a few times, and then find another interest, leaving the Discussion Board. Removing accounts that go inactive is yet another way that we ensure that the members that are here are ones that participate in the discussions and visit at least once a month.

The one thing to keep in mind of the members here is that everyone who participates in the discussions shares the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses and really is interested in encouraging one another in that respect.
Even so, because we disallow the undermining of doctrinal teachings unique to Jehovah's Witnesses, because we disallow "mainstream Christianity," we should not be surprised to find that we are in the minority in comparison to other boards whose selling points are "free thinking," "mainstream" views and regular promotion of apostate views, thus drawing and catering to greater numbers than what we'll find here.

--Administration

[Martha]

What's happened to Steadfast?

[Nash]

Good question.

Nash

[Administration]

What's happened to Steadfast?[/b]

Steadfast requested that her account be deleted.

[Nambo]

It seems we are down 7 members from maybe only yesterday, has something happened?

Or does the inactive clearout occur on a certain day of each month?

[clay]

Lack of time prevents my being able to participate as often as I would like, so mostly I check in and catch up by reading a couple times a week. Many of you are familiar to me, and feel like I've gotten to know you as friends from your comments, views. So it is with disappointment I read Steadfast deleted his association. Felt that his posts, views were valuable, mature and scripturally based. What a loss, in my opinion. Best to you Steadfast. Keep up the fine fight.

clay

[BackToBasics]

Why did Steadfast decide to leave ?

Im also a bit confused about what the Admin said about apostate views because the WT says Watchman is apostate and Watchman says the WT is apostate . I know that spostasy is a very bad thing in Jehovahs eyes. Exactly what set of idears are not apostate? Is it not going to next to imposible to get people to join here and benefit from what is talked about if they have to immediatly conform their beliefs to whatever it is ?

Someone help me to understand or is it just me? You see im not sure i agree with every single thing that Watchman says . Does that mean I should leave? Help.

[DoubtingThomas]

These are difficult times for some of us emotionally, as well as spiritually. We are torn between our love and loyalty for Jehovah on one hand, and then on the other hand having it beat into our heads almost every meeting that we need to be loyal to an organization instead. That is why many of us find comfort in this site. Others may be bothered to some degree by coming here when they are feeling pressurred by the organization or their families not to. That is why I have been very careful about speaking with others about these things here. I have noticed also that some are still members here, but no longer posting as much as they used to. Others who have not joined may be aware that the Watchtower has many things wrongs with it, as well as an incorrect understanding of 1914 and Bible prophecies, but they may feel that it is still best to wait on Jehovah, rather than join a DB like this. As for me, I need this place. It is good therapy for me knowing that I am not alone in this fight.

[watchman]

I haven't heard from Steadfast as to why she left the forum but I suspect she was offended by my choice of music in the latest pictorial memorial video. I don't want to say too much, but apparently she and some others were upset by the Gregorian chant music that I used in a previous video posted on You Tube and evidently the latest video featuring churchy-sounding choral and African tribal music was too much for her. I am sorry to see her go. As for the others, apparently one other individual closed out their account too and the others were simply deleted by the program due to inactivity.

As for my taste in music, I guess I march to the sound of a different drummer....literally. I have a diverse musical taste, I guess. Really, I like all music. But I have been listening to Gregorian music for years. In fact, I frequently listened to Gregorian chants while writing Jehovah Himself Has Become King. I find it induces a contemplative spirit. But hey, I like the Dixie Chicks too.

Watchman

[Elihu]

i feel empathy for all here at this site, i have never been a witness but went through a very intense self examination when i learned the "truth" and i decided for numerous reasons that i could not dedicate myself to Jehovah ,it hurt and still does!
therefore i am aware of how extemely difficult it must be for people who have been dedicated servants of Jehovah belonging to an organisation that has basically taught them all they know about the scriptures and has been instrumental in forming their concept of what a person must be and do in order to be a true servant of Jehovah.

i think an important point to remember here is the enormity of what we are learning and the impact that it can have on us as individuals.
Watchmans essays and commentaries must be the equivalent of cultural shock to some who have found the strength and determination to pier outside of the watchtower castle and examine these things.

I sometimes find that i thought i understood something and when i read it again it contains an even stronger challenge to what i originally believed was the truth.
sometimes some people have to walk away and soak in this knowledge ,check the scriptures, ponder and pray.

steadfast has posted some inspiring comments that i am sure we all have enjoyed. perhaps she just needs time to soak in this new knowledge.
i hope she will come back soon because this the only place i have to find spiritual companionship.

Elihu

[eyes&ears]

I HAVE DECIDED TO REMOVE MY POST.

I WILL PM YOU B TO B.

E & E

[James]

I HAVE DECIDED TO REMOVE MY POST.

I WILL PM YOU B TO B.

E & E[/b]



E & E,

I am very sorry to see you go as well as Steadfast and the others.

You were such an encouragement to all of us with your shouts and posts.

May Jehovah be with you always,

With Love,in Christ

James

[Jeshurun]

E & E,

I am very sorry to see you go as well as Steadfast and the others.

You were such an encouragement to all of us with your shouts and posts.

May Jehovah be with you always,

With Love,in Christ

James[/b]

Hi James

Did eyes&ears leave too?

What's going on? What a loss! E&E we love you!

I would like to take this opportunity to say that Steadfast will be sorely missed. It's a sad day, and I wish Steadfast all the best.

:93:

[Cricket]

I am sorry to see Steadfast go - I will miss her posts. Hopefully she will come back!

Londoner has rejoined, I see!

[Olm]

hi cricket, didn't i used to talk to you in the chat rooms on this? do they still have a chat room on this site?

[Eli's Foe]

I haven't heard from Steadfast as to why she left the forum but I suspect she was offended by my choice of music in the latest pictorial memorial video. I don't want to say too much, but apparently she and some others were upset by the Gregorian chant music that I used in a previous video posted on You Tube and evidently the latest video featuring churchy-sounding choral and African tribal music was too much for her. I am sorry to see her go. As for the others, apparently one other individual closed out their account too and the others were simply deleted by the program due to inactivity.

As for my taste in music, I guess I march to the sound of a different drummer....literally. I have a diverse musical taste, I guess. Really, I like all music. But I have been listening to Gregorian music for years.
Watchman[/b]

Romans 14 19 to 21 appears the best scriptural guidance in matters such as these. It saddens me that Steadfast has left the DB and others too if they have left for similar reasons. I am not offended by the music, but I would forgo my own tastes if my brother or sister was, it is no loss to me.

EF

[Candace]

Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant) for an interesting article on Gregorian Chant music.

As a former Catholic, I can understand why something like this could be a sensitive issue for some people. I was forced to go to Catholic school from first grade through high school. I can remember acts of violence towards students perpetrated by the evil nuns who were in charge, and it started as early as the first grade. Slamming the desk on top of a girl's hands because she was caught sucking her thumb. A nun sticking her finger up a girl's nose and shaking the girl's head from side to side for the infraction of being caught picking her nose.

The mental and emotional abuse was even worse. The only kind teachers we had were those who were not nuns. I fondly remember those teachers. My worst years were 7th and 8th grade, when I had to have the same wicked nun two years in a row. I remember as early as 4th grade coming home from school and crying, begging my parents to allow me to go to public school so I could be with "normal" kids and "normal" teachers. My parents ignored me.

Because of this traumatic past, I get nauseous when I see a priest or a nun out in public. The site of a nun has a marked physical effect on me as the memories come flooding back. I imagine certain kinds of music could do the same to some people.

As regards taste in music, everyone has different tastes. You might find something I like offensive! I like some rap....not all rap, and definitely not rap that glorifies violence and other kinds of wickedness, but there are some rap tunes that I find catchy and enjoy listening to. My husband, on the other hand, thinks ALL rap music is bad, and won't allow it in the house or on the car radio. Oh well, I can listen to it when he's not around. Don't want to offend him or cause a rift between us.

I hope our friends will come back in time. I have found this site to be a place where I can finally associate with people who are in basically the same predicament as me. I spent most of my adult life believing in the WTS, and being conditioned to believe everything they printed was from Jehovah, via Jesus, via the holy spirit. Probably around 1995 I started realizing that not everything they print is absolute. But I didn't have a major crisis of faith until this past January. Injustices committed against myself, family members, and people I don't even know (victims of sex abuse the I would read about on the net) were some of the stumbling blocks for me. I was having a really hard time reconciling who Jehovah is with was I was experiencing in "his" organization. This site has been a tremendous help in that area and has helped me regain my faith, and strengthen it.

[Kenneth]

Hi all

Several have been wondering where some of us are. Well I haven't posted for some time for personal reasons. I have written to Robert and explained why. My motives for not posting have no reflection on any member of the board or Robert King. I have made it quit clear to Robert that I'm 100% behind him and I do not intend to change my courses. I have come to realise from the book of Jeremiah that the situation in the Watchtower is useless and that soon Jehovah will execute his judgements upon it. In some ways I hanker over the past in the false belief that I can find peace in the congregation, and I know now I can't. Even though I believe that the meetings are vital as it that only place we can be together as a spiritual family while we await Jehovah's judgments. So be patient I just need some time to work things out in my head.



Kenneth

[BackToBasics]

Its a shame all of this . Watchman is there perhaps anyway you might consider changing the music of this gregorian chanting music . This might get the ones who have left to come back . Seems a shame that some are leaving due to something that could be changed . I know its a pain possibly to do but sort of seems like a good idea at this stage .

[watchman]

Its a shame all of this . Watchman is there perhaps anyway you might consider changing the music of this gregorian chanting music . This might get the ones who have left to come back . Seems a shame that some are leaving due to something that could be changed . I know its a pain possibly to do but sort of seems like a good idea at this stage .[/b]

Hi Back to Basics

I don't know for sure if that is why Steadfast asked to have her account deleted. I am just speculating. But, it seems to me that if that is the reason, then, the most sensible course for those who might be offended by Gregorian music or choral music or African music, or whatever, would be for them not to listen to it. After all, the videos are not even hosted on any e-watchman site. So, it seems easy enough to avoid it. Besides, I placed the videos on YouTube primarily for non-JW's. We are in the process of setting up a website to host my videos and I do not plan on putting the Gregorian video up on the site.

[stayawake]

Thank you Watchman for your explanation.
I don't see any wrong in the music being designed as bait for the public. and as you said the videos are not hosted on any e-w sites.
Personally I find many verses in the KH songs that are prayers To the Most High very offensive.
In some of those songs we are actually thanking Jehovah for all the lies we were taught, by His self appointed channel.
Thats what I call OFFENSIVE

[BackToBasics]

Fair enough Watchman . I wonder what the words mean though in the music .

[Criterion]

Its a shame all of this . Watchman is there perhaps anyway you might consider changing the music of this gregorian chanting music . This might get the ones who have left to come back . Seems a shame that some are leaving due to something that could be changed . I know its a pain possibly to do but sort of seems like a good idea at this stage .[/b]

I find it a paradox that some people decided to leave because of watchman's use of a music style known as "Gregorian chant" and yet they took a no-holds barred in promoting and participating in conspiratorial discussions, even though the Bible strongly counsels against delving into the "deep things" of Satan and his system. I, for one, have struggled with reading any of the posts here due to the proliferation of these "deep things of Satan"-type posts (aka conspiracy posts), because my Christian conscience stands opposed to wanting to know anything more about Satan's system than I already do, and it seems that some people want to learn more and more about how Satan's system operates and has infiltrated every aspect of our lives and the system of things that we live in.

So, it appears that some people are drawing lines as it suits them. Conspiratorial discussions are fine. A video that utilized an archaic music style is out.

Discussing and educating ourselves about the "deep things of Satan": Good.

A short film discussing Jehovah's glory: Bad. Why is it bad? Because it contains "Gregorian chant" which has become a nearly institutionalized aspect of the Roman Catholic Church. By this line of reasoning, we should never pick up our Bible again, because the Bible we have today was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church. If we want to cut all ties to the predominant religion of centuries past, we should start with that. Which would be silly, because we recognize that the Roman Catholic Church, although responsible for canonizing the books that make up our Bible, also misused the Bible to promote teachings and practices that were unbiblical. So, people kept the Bible and broke ties with the Roman Catholic Church and Protestantism was born.

Even today, Jehovah's Witnesses use the Bible as canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, but try to allow the Bible to speak for itself, and still fall short as we well know, on certain teachings that--to us--the Bible is clear on yet the Watchtower Society doesn't support through its published views and teachings.

Music has come down to us through humankind's attempt to sing praise to God. Sometimes it was accompanied by music instruments (for example, David used a musical instrument), other times, it was hymn-like, such as when Jesus and his disciples sang "praises" before they went out to the Mount of Olives, as recorded at Matthew 26:30.

The link that someone provided to the Wikipedia article on "Gregorian chant" is a good place to start in order to learn what that music style is. I would add that the book The History of Christianity by Paul Johnson also provides well-documented coverage of the origins of this musical style. But in the simplest terms, "Gregorian chant" was created so that Christianity/Christendom had hymns and God could be praised. Until then, there is very little evidence that Christianity/Christendom sang praises of any sort.

That it originated with the Roman Catholic Church seems to be a stumbling for some. But the fact of the matter is that the person who pushed for "Gregorian chant" is responsible for the reintroduction of hymns and choral praises back into worship. It's called "chant" because of the cadence of the music, not because of some tie to witchcraft chanting or mindless chanting. It's referred to as "Gregorian" because of the influences in place at the time within the Roman Catholic Church. Does that make such music bad today, so that we should avoid it? Some will believe so, as a matter of personal conscience, and those whose conscience is not such that it needs to be avoided at all costs try to respect those consciences that are bothered by it. Likewise, those whose consciences are bothered by it because of its origination with the Roman Catholic Church should respect the consciences of those who view it merely as a musical style.

It would be unChristian to insist that only the consciences of those offended should be respected, or those not offended be respected.

Does Jehovah approve of this musical style? Perhaps the Bible's counsel has some bearing:

And whatever it is that YOU do in word or in work, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him. [Colossians 3:17, NWT]

Whatever YOU are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men... [Colossians 3:23, NWT]

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[stayawake]

Dear Criterion,
the most I can add to your post is" DITTO"

love stayawake

[BackToBasics]

Criterion I agree with you to an exstent but not totally .

You said "It would be unChristian to insist that only the consciences of those offended should be respected, or those not offended be respected. "

".....and those whose conscience is not such that it needs to be avoided at all costs try to respect those consciences that are bothered by it. Likewise, those whose consciences are bothered by it because of its origination with the Roman Catholic Church should respect the consciences of those who view it merely as a musical style."


Well im not sure because of what is says in Romans and 1 Corinthians .

Rom 14:21 It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.

1Co 8:12 But when YOU people thus sin against YOUR brothers and wound their conscience that is weak, YOU are sinning against Christ.1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat flesh at all, that I may not make my brother stumble.


I am aware that the term chanting actually has several meanings one of which is singing but now days has taken on a negative connotation . However that doesnt seem to have a bearing on the bblical advice above .

Also if we do not know what the words of the song mean that could be a problem because for all we know the words might be praising the trinity or some other doctrine that some disagree with .

I think the biblical advice is clear .



Rom 14:23 But if he has doubts, he is already condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] out of faith. Indeed, everything that is not out of faith is sin.

This scripture means that if some had stayed here who had a problem with this music they would be torn between staying here which would be a sin for them and leaving . Combining this with not knowing if the words would agree with someones conscience would mean some adjustment may be needed .

As for my self I dont have a problem with the music because of Romans 14:14.



Rom 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is defiled in itself; only where a man considers something to be defiled, to him it is defiled.

Its others Im concerned about who do .I guess its too late now anyway .

[DoubtingThomas]

Criterion I wanted to make a correction to your post about the Roman Catholic Church being responsible for the Bible canon. The Hebrew scriptures or canon were already set in place and approved by the Jews (ie Jehovah God) at the birth of Christ. The Bible canon that is used by the RC Church is not the Bible as used by the vast majority of humans on this planet. It contains several apocraphal writings that are not inspired. Jehovah God would not let any of His inspired and holy writings dissappear (or be added to) even though Satan has attempted to do this. The Bible we have today is complete Word until the new scrolls are opened. But the RC church use their own Bible, they did not influence the normally accepted canon by the vast majority of Christians.

Also why is eyes&ears account deleted now? I will truly miss her shouts and loving & kind comments and post.

Also we shouldn&#39;t waste too much time speculating about steadfast being offended by the music if we really don&#39;t know that is the reason for steadfast leaving. Perhaps most of us will never know. But either way, watchman has already stated that the video will not be placed on his site, so he has done all that he can reasonable do to make amends about this matter, and to avoid offending others in the future.

[Elihu]

i really do not understand!

how can a video containing gregorian chant cause this to happen?
i plead with steadfast and eyes and ears and anyone else who has left this DB for whatever reasons.
please reflect on all the amazing truths that watchman has shown from scripture, all the hard work that he has put in , the courage and conviction that he has to stand up to the WT society and its governing body, and actually challenge their prophesy interpretations, but most of all by doing so he has demonstarted his immense love of Jehovah and His Son, and his love of scriptural truth.

at times we all may find that we differ on scriptural interpretation of events to come but surley it is beyond doubt, certainly in my mind, that Robert king is a dedicated servant of Jehovah, and would not intentionally do anything to cause anyone to stumble.


Again! please, all those who have left for whatever reasons, reconsider, stay here and talk ,discuss and let us encourage one another as we see the day of Jehovah approaching

Elihu

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Elihu,

I agree with your sentiments entirely. Though some who walked with Jesus were stumbled by things he said, yet the disciples when asked if they too wanted to go asked in response where they would go since he had sayings of everlasting life.

I wonder where our former friends on the DB can find to go. This is where the truth is.

EF

[Criterion]

Criterion I agree with you to an exstent but not totally .

You said "It would be unChristian to insist that only the consciences of those offended should be respected, or those not offended be respected. "

".....and those whose conscience is not such that it needs to be avoided at all costs try to respect those consciences that are bothered by it. Likewise, those whose consciences are bothered by it because of its origination with the Roman Catholic Church should respect the consciences of those who view it merely as a musical style."


Well im not sure because of what is says in Romans and 1 Corinthians .

Rom 14:21 It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.

1Co 8:12 But when YOU people thus sin against YOUR brothers and wound their conscience that is weak, YOU are sinning against Christ.1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat flesh at all, that I may not make my brother stumble.[/b]

Notice also that Paul writes,

But if anyone should say to YOU: “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat on account of the one that disclosed it and on account of conscience. “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other person. For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks? - 1 Corinthians 10:28-30, NWT

Clearly, there comes a point when balance must be sought so that the "more important things" that Paul refers to in his letter to the Philippians may abound among Christians. In the early Christian congregations, the Jewish Christians became greatly offended with things that the Gentile Christians ate, especially in matters of meat. The apostle Paul tried to help both sides of the issue to appreciate the other&#39;s conscience. He also castigated the Gentile Christians who felt it was okay to, in essence, flaunt their conscience in the faces of their Jewish Christians brothers.

The same principle can be applied here IF anyone here can say that Robert&#39;s use of "Gregorian chant" or "choral" music was done as a matter of flaunting his own conscience in the face of those who are stumbled over these forms of music. Rather, Robert acknowledged that some had contacted him afterwards, saying that they had a problem with his choice of music, and also stated that it was not his intention to offend anyone. Further, he tried to explain that the videos did not play on this site nor on his e-watchman site, so it was not being thrust down anyone&#39;s throat, against their conscience. Anyone was free to follow the link to the video and view it--or not, depending on their conscience.

Apparently, this was not enough for those whose conscience stumbles at these forms of music. Like the Jewish Christians in the first century who stumbled at their Gentile brothers&#39; eating of meat, these ones expected Robert to recant of "eating meat offered to idols" and forswear all "meat" entirely, for their conscience&#39;s sake. At least, that is the impression I am left with, if this is the issue. In response, like Paul, Robert must be asking why it should be that his freedom is being judged by another person&#39;s conscience. Furthermore, he has publicly stated that the offending video will not be placed on his new e-watchman video site--further demonstration, I should think, of his concern for the conscience of others. Unfortunately, we are left with the impression that this is not good enough for some, because apparently some are asking that their accounts be deleted over this, because Robert has not pulled his video from YouTube, nor issued a public recanting of his choice--which seems to be what is being expected by some over this. If that is true, how sad!


I am aware that the term chanting actually has several meanings one of which is singing but now days has taken on a negative connotation . However that doesnt seem to have a bearing on the bblical advice above .

Also if we do not know what the words of the song mean that could be a problem because for all we know the words might be praising the trinity or some other doctrine that some disagree with .[/b]

I will agree with you on this point insofar as the issue goes. However, those who are being stumbled over this should have presented us with the lyrical translations if it was on that basis that they were offended, rather than what they might be singing about. Everyone would have benefited, had this been the course exercised. From what I could discern, the music was simply harmonious voices singing in a slow cadence. I couldn&#39;t make out any words (however foreign they may have been). If they were saying something, then someone should tell me what they were saying so I can research the words (and presumably the message).


Rom 14:23 But if he has doubts, he is already condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] out of faith. Indeed, everything that is not out of faith is sin.

This scripture means that if some had stayed here who had a problem with this music they would be torn between staying here which would be a sin for them and leaving . Combining this with not knowing if the words would agree with someones conscience would mean some adjustment may be needed .[/b]

Except that the music was not being played here, nor was the video being shown here. It is available at an entirely different site. So what was really gained by their decision to leave the board over something at another site? That&#39;s what is so confusing about all of this. It leaves me with the impression that this was more about Robert&#39;s use of the music than about the friends who meet here to exchange discussion and encouragement. In effect, the rest of us are now "cast off" by the ones who took their leave because of something Robert did. But in case anyone hasn&#39;t noticed, even though Robert owns the DB, supports it with his own funds, etc., the reason this DB is online is for US, not for him. By way of participation, Robert&#39;s participation here is a mere pittance to that of many others who post here daily and keep the discussions alive and moving. Like I said, every one of us are being "cast off" because someone didn&#39;t pre-approve of what Robert did at another site.

So was it really about being torn between staying here and continuing to associate with the majority who every day come here and post their thoughts and observations, or leaving because Robert posted a video they didn&#39;t like? Me, if I don&#39;t like what someone says, I stop reading their posts. That&#39;s what I did with all of the conspiracy talk that is here, plain and simple. But rather than convince me that I needed to leave this DB, it also motivated me to look for posts that weren&#39;t conspiracy-plot-of-the-week type topics. It made me look for the good that I knew was here. And I&#39;m still here.

Unfortunately, somehow, those who have decided to leave felt that Robert&#39;s choice of music was too great and offensive a matter, even when weighed against all of the other great thoughts and exchanges of encouragements that take place here on a daily basis. I don&#39;t know about anyone else, but that sort of reasoning leaves me feeling rather empty and disappointed.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[Criterion]

Criterion I wanted to make a correction to your post about the Roman Catholic Church being responsible for the Bible canon. The Hebrew scriptures or canon were already set in place and approved by the Jews (ie Jehovah God) at the birth of Christ. The Bible canon that is used by the RC Church is not the Bible as used by the vast majority of humans on this planet. It contains several apocraphal writings that are not inspired. Jehovah God would not let any of His inspired and holy writings dissappear (or be added to) even though Satan has attempted to do this. The Bible we have today is complete Word until the new scrolls are opened. But the RC church use their own Bible, they did not influence the normally accepted canon by the vast majority of Christians.[/b]

Thank you for the clarification about the Jewish Scriptures.

In regards to the books included in the Roman Catholic Church&#39;s Bible canon, it is my understanding that they have the same canon as non-Catholics, with a few variations. The Catholic Bible does include non-canonical works (i.e. the Apocrypha) but these are referred to as deuterocanonical books, not canonical. In addition, Orthodox Christians and Hellenist Jews also incorporate apocryphal books in their Bibles. Even today, there are non-Catholic Bibles that continue to include the Apocrypha in their Bible as a matter of historical reference and interest.

In any event, there can be little question that the Roman Catholic Church, in spite of its erroneous teachings and practices, did, in fact, play a significant role in preserving the holy writings and settle the issue of the Bible canon. Later religious movements, including Protestantism, have since further refined the Roman Catholic Church&#39;s choice of Bible canon, removing those writings which do not meet their guidelines and expectations, and issuing updated translations as they can be produced with newer documents and parchments becoming available. Furthermore, nearly every branch of Christendom has its own Bible version that they favor. Even Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses saw fit to produce the New World Translation of the Holy Bible to be used in worship.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[Jeshurun]

So many of us have spent so many years being inculcated by the WTBTS with the idea that anything that might have pagan origin is like anthrax to our spirituality. This is a tough thing to overcome. In a sense it tells me that a person really loves Jehovah if they could be so upset by these things. But at the same time it&#39;s very sad that we seem to have lost so many dear ones because of this, but Jehovah knows hearts and we have to trust him to guide his sheep on this one.

I personally am not offended by the music, in fact I listen to Mannheim Steamroller which includes a lot of Gregorian chants. I find that it does magnify the beauty of the human voice and uplifts the spirit. For some reason I connect it to God rather than a church. The same thing can be said of choir music, which includes a vast array of styles and tempos.

If we really wanted to take it a step further, we could say that lighting candles in our home is bad because it&#39;s done in churches, and I&#39;m sure we can think of plenty of other things. And as far as churches in general, they may be a lot further from the truth than us JW&#39;s, but if you read the scriptures it&#39;s clear that those other "prostitutes" have members who just may end up being saved due to their belief in Christ, however convoluted the doctrines. That certainly doesn&#39;t mean one should attend masses there, but there aren&#39;t any false doctrines coming from the music itself.

A friend of mine who is in the truth once joked, while we were trying to figure out how to spend an evening, that we couldn&#39;t go bowling because it probably had pagan origins.

I pray that after some reflection our loved ones will return, or at least come back and visit once in a while.

Somber

Lou

[Jinnvisible]

The Sing praises to Jehovah WTBTS songbook is copyrighted.

If a person would prefer the use of officially sanctioned music to the use of other `more questionible` music then they should contact the legal deptment at Bethel and gain a gaurantee that no legal action would be taken. This could be done on behalf of an unnamed 3rd party.

If those assurances could not be gained then the next thing would perhaps be to offer supply some other music enabling webhosts to soundtrack thier presentations.

I can understand why a person might choose to de-register than go through all that though.

[James]

Hi Everybody (that&#39;s still here),

Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts... As Watchman, DT and others have pointed out, it&#39;s all speculation.

I know when I watched "Jehovah is his name" video, it was an instant flashback to childhood memories to Catholic church and school. (shudder) We were raised catholic by my mother (my dad was a non-practicing Russian Orthodox.)

Candace, I totally agree with you about the &#39;evil nuns&#39;. I have one particular memory of the head nun turning beet red as she had a boy against the wall and pinched his cheeks in her hand as she lifted him off the ground. (shudder, shudder)

I do hope Steadfast, E&E and others just need to gather their thoughts as Kenneth mentioned. It&#39;s eerie when friends just leave without a word -it reminds ones of the painful practice of shunning. Although I don&#39;t believe for a second that was their intent.

May Jehovah be with them.


Watchman, I thought the music did justice to the video, which is Honor Jehovah-

but now really Dixie Chicks? LOL :icon8:


In service to Jehovah,
James

[BackToBasics]

Criterion . You have miss applied the scriptures you underlined .

For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person&#39;s conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks? - 1 Corinthians 10:28-30, NWT

Although this scripture sounds like a reversal of the preceding guidance which is to not do something if it hurts the conscience of someone with a weaker conscience it is in fact not doing this or trying to balance the proceeding advice with an opposite or even hinting that there comes a point that we ignore the conscience of another if we think it silly or short-sighted . What Paul is in fact doing is asking two rhetorical questions. What Paul is really saying in plain English for example is that if Bob acts without regard for Tim&#39;s weaker conscience then Bobs conscience will be judged by Tim&#39;s weaker one and Bob will get abuse from Tim as a result of Tim&#39;s reaction regarding what he saw Bob eating or doing . That is why the chapter ends as it does .

1Co 10:31 Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God&#39;s glory.
1Co 10:32 Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God,
1Co 10:33 even as I am pleasing all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage but that of the many, in order that they might get saved.

The whole chapter is really about love and doing whatever is required to not hurt a fellow believer .

Whatever the book of Philippians says in regard to flaunting one conscience does not apply here on this web site because I don&#39;t think any who left were doing that because they have gone.

Music is I am told a form of worship . That&#39;s what we were taught as JWs . So if a Christian in the kingdom hall were to sing a kingdom melody and then go out and play a religious track on the doors when preaching and that song is a Catholic song with words in another language possibly praising the trinity or whatever and his fellow witnesses was stumbled by this what should be said?

You say that this is ok because Watchman didn&#39;t put this music on this web site . But he did provide a link to it . The video on youtube is I imagine aimed at JWs who would likely be more sensitive to these things than those here .

You also imply that the one stumbled should be the one to provide a translation of the lyrics in question. However that doesn&#39;t seem appropriate as a justification . If the JW on the door preaching with their fellow witness asked the one playing the music what the lyrics means and they replied "find out yourself" they would feel not only stumbled but insulted as well .

Just because this music is played off of Watchman&#39;s web site doesn&#39;t mean a thing in my understanding . Is adultery a sin only if it is done in the kingdom hall! To use that as an example.

You said also
"
Unfortunately, somehow, those who have decided to leave felt that Robert&#39;s choice of music was too great and offensive a matter, even when weighed against all of the other great thoughts and exchanges of encouragements that take place here on a daily basis. I don&#39;t know about anyone else, but that sort of reasoning leaves me feeling rather empty and disappointed"

My response is that at least you didn&#39;t feel so bad that you felt compelled to leave . The fact that some did indicates how strongly they felt and so little effort would have been needed in order to keep them here . It just shows that great thoughts and encouragements are not enough on their own . Paul was all things to all people . Perhaps a lesson is there . The positive application of love is so simple really but people make it complicated like your response to me was complicated . I think you might make a great spin doctor .

[Criterion]

Criterion . You have miss applied the scriptures you underlined .

What Paul is really saying...[/b]

Any time someone tells me "What so-and-so is really saying..." warning lights go off for me, sorry. I can appreciate the point you are trying to make, but try to make it without putting words into the mouth of Paul and say that he didn&#39;t mean what he wrote... that what he meant to say was...


That is why the chapter ends as it does .

1Co 10:31 Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God&#39;s glory.
1Co 10:32 Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God,
1Co 10:33 even as I am pleasing all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage but that of the many, in order that they might get saved.

The whole chapter is really about love and doing whatever is required to not hurt a fellow believer .[/b]

By all rights, any of us can say that the fact that this DB exists and that there are friends that post here is, in fact, a stumbling to other Witnesses. Wouldn&#39;t you agree? So the fact that you are posting here, you are guilty of stumbling others. Does that hinder you from posting here, even though you know that if someone in your congregation found out, they&#39;d be stumbled or offended.? Further, people will be stumbled no matter what. People stumbled at what Jesus taught, people stumbled at what early Christians taught, people stumble today over whatever. My point is that there comes a point where we have to allow for this, precisely because it is inevitable. We cannot become overly fixated with doing things in accordance with another person&#39;s conscience. It&#39;s impossible, and we&#39;d never get anything done. People are offended when we go to their door, others are stumbled: does that mean we shouldn&#39;t do that do that, because someone is going to stumble at it?

Likewise, should we not talk about anything but the weather, simply because raising a particular topic might stumble someone here? Can you imagine what the discussions would be like if we did that? If Robert pulled every piece of writing that someone was stumbled by, what would be left?

As I tried to point out initially, people draw lines according to their conscience and according to their comfort zone.

The problem culminates from trying to compel others to stay behind these lines and abide by someone else&#39;s conscience and standards. Equally, it culminates from expecting others to "toughen up" and stop having a "weak conscience." And that&#39;s the point I draw from Paul&#39;s counsel. As you cited, Paul said that whatever you are doing, do it for God&#39;s glory. He admonished Christians to keep from becoming causes for stumbling. Does that mean that Paul never stumbled someone? Does that mean that Jesus never stumbled someone? Does that mean we never will.

No, although it would be great if that was the case. But we want to do our best to be sensitive to others&#39; consciences, yet not to the point where we can&#39;t do anything at all, or we&#39;d never get anywhere. Each must carry their own load, it was written. It is further written that those who know what they should do and yet do not do it will be punished more harshly than those who do not do out of ignorance.

Call it "spin" if you like, but that&#39;s how I see it.


You say that this is ok because Watchman didn&#39;t put this music on this web site . But he did provide a link to it . The video on youtube is I imagine aimed at JWs who would likely be more sensitive to these things than those here.[/b]

What I am saying is that it doesn&#39;t make sense to me if someone casts the rest of us off as chaff on account of what a single poster wrote or posted a link to. If they disapproved of what the poster wrote or linked to, then I can respect that. But by leaving, they seem to be saying that the rest of us aren&#39;t worth their association on account of the single poster&#39;s post(s). How is that loving? Even Jehovah will not destroy the entirety of humankind because he disapproves of what some (or many) are doing, and he&#39;s God. That should tell us something, don&#39;t you agree?


You also imply that the one stumbled should be the one to provide a translation of the lyrics in question. However that doesn&#39;t seem appropriate as a justification .[/b]

The point I was trying to make was that it would have better helped the rest of us to understand the problem if they had taken the time to do so. I&#39;m not one to say that all Gregorian music must be avoided simply because some of the songs in that style might contain lyrics that are otherwise offensive. Speaking of writing off entire mediums and forms of music or entertainment on the basis of some deplorability found in those fields, I&#39;d never turn on my television or radio again, or step outside my home, for that matter!


The fact that some did indicates how strongly they felt and so little effort would have been needed in order to keep them here . It just shows that great thoughts and encouragements are not enough on their own . Paul was all things to all people . Perhaps a lesson is there . The positive application of love is so simple really but people make it complicated like your response to me was complicated .[/b]

And I have to say that I respect their decision. I just don&#39;t understand it.

The fact is, there are a number of friends here that continue to attend meetings in spite of the stumbling (and outright wrong) things being taught from the platform and in the Society&#39;s literature. They continue because of their love for the friends themselves. But perhaps we here, including those who are being shunned in our local congregations or are unable to attend because of ostracization or having been disfellowshipped over doctrinal teachings, don&#39;t warrant the same appreciation and love.

Again, call it spin if you&#39;d like. It&#39;s just one person&#39;s opinion: mine.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[BackToBasics]

We will have to beg to differ but Id switch those warning lights off if I were you .

[Cricket]

hi cricket, didn&#39;t i used to talk to you in the chat rooms on this? do they still have a chat room on this site?[/b]

Yes Olm, I am the one! I do not see the chat room on the revised board. It is probably a good thing as I would spend WAY to much time on the Time Machine (computer).
Laundry piling up, hubby and kids and pets wasting way.... LOL

[Cricket]

I have to agree with Criterion.

We will drive ourselves nuts if try to avoid everything we think that would offend Jehovah verses what we positively know what offends Him.

I enjoy all forms of music except rap. If something I am watching or listening to contains rap music or other content that is not appropriate to watch, I will simply turn it off or switch to something else. Why stress ourselves over these small things? If the music in the video offends someone, just choose not to watch it. For those who choose to watch it, let them - it is their decision.

The essays and commentaries are enough for some to have major strokes over based on the some of the posters experiences trying to share tidbits with others, but we here at the board think nothing of it to read them and discuss them.

Right now I am much more concerned over my overall spiritual welfare and spiritual knowledge and pray everyday that I will have the faith and courage to stand up and choose Jehovah&#39;s and Jesus&#39; side when the time comes. I wish I could say with 100% confidence that it would be no problem for me - but to do so may just be pure arrogance.

Cricket

[stayawake]

Cricket,
I feel the same way,If one does not like it why go there,
just don&#39;t worry what the other is doing, each one will carry his own load.
We should be upbuilding each other , and not tearing down. The picture and verse is so appropeate right now.


Does every one have to be in agreement with every thing one says,or does here. ??? Thats why this is called a discussion board. I thought we were freed from all that .
Theres always at least 1/2 doz threads on the board if one does not like one then just turn the page.
,before you know it we will be back to what we fled from.
love stayawake

[Jeshurun]

Right now I am much more concerned over my overall spiritual welfare and spiritual knowledge and pray everyday that I will have the faith and courage to stand up and choose Jehovah&#39;s and Jesus&#39; side when the time comes. I wish I could say with 100% confidence that it would be no problem for me - but to do so may just be pure arrogance.

Cricket[/b]

You have a wonderful attitude, Cricket. There&#39;s a scripture where Jehovah tells us he will remove our fears and give us strength when the time comes, and also the one comes to mind where Jesus said not to rehearse beforehand what we are to say, that Jehovah&#39;s Spirit will give us the proper responses when we need them, if we just trust in him and have faith.

I also agree with Criterion, in the sense that he is honest enough to say that he was offended by the conspiracy posts but yet he just ignored them, instead of signing on just to seek them out and add fuel to the fire, which I thought was hypocritical on the part of some.

It is both humbling and enlightening to find out just how many disapproved of the conversations regarding the "deep things of Satan", and on the other hand, there were many who expressed appreciation for these things, since they were always forbidden by Big Brother, or Big Momma, to engage in such discussions.

I don&#39;t really understand where someone is supposed to draw the line regarding this issue. What I do know is that in order understand the most intricate prophecies, such as Daniel chapter 11, it is a necessity to research conspiracy in history in order to properly identify the parties involved. Exactly how or when exploring this information becomes unChristian, I am not clear on. What I do know is that I am left with a guilty conscience for having discussed these things, when I read many of the same things in Watchman&#39;s essays and commentaries. And my motivation is having all the weapons I can muster for my ministry to an unsuspecting world of people who are very close to having the most tyrannical despotic ruler in history unleashed upon them, not to mention the ones who will be in the center of the bullseye, true Christians.

[BackToBasics]

Well unfortunitly Im quite sure now that those that left because of the music on the video probably wont return after reading some of the comments on this thread . It doesnt exactly show many fruits of the spirit . What the bible seems to say on the subject appears to have been watered down by some or even discounted .

Anyhow what is done is done . I know Jehovah will look after such ones who left whereever they went and the holy spirit will follow them to that place . We are weaker not stronger by their departing from us not that there are many here anyway .

My words and coments on this subject were all motivated by love and the course of action I advised was a loving one . No one however agreed with me or even the essence of what I said . Thats a shame . Love is proactive and reactive to the needs of others and if it is not then it is not love.

If the ones who left did because you were stumbled I hope you read my words and come back. I dont think you were being overly judgmental simply human with a regard to what is an exceptable form of worship .

[BackToBasics]

Can someone tell me what the music is called in Watchmans video so I can research what the lyrics mean ?

[Criterion]

Well unfortunitly Im quite sure now that those that left because of the music on the video probably wont return after reading some of the comments on this thread . It doesnt exactly show many fruits of the spirit . What the bible seems to say on the subject appears to have been watered down by some or even discounted .[/b]

I&#39;m sure from your perspective that is the case. However, you were only wanting to focus on choice scriptures to make your point, whereas I was attempting to provide additional scriptures and Bible examples to bring balance to the discussion. If you feel that my doing so shows a lack of the fruits of the spirit, then I am sorry you feel that way.


Anyhow what is done is done . I know Jehovah will look after such ones who left whereever they went and the holy spirit will follow them to that place . We are weaker not stronger by their departing from us[/b]

Without a doubt, their departure is a loss, which makes their decision to leave all the more grievous and confusing. The remainder of us are now being shunned and cast off because of former members&#39; disapproval of what Robert did. How is that loving on their part?


not that there are many here anyway .[/b]

Jehovah blesses whom he will, regardless of numbers on a membership roll. If you are looking for a show of numbers, you may want to consider joining Catholicism... or perhaps the Muslims, which are the fastest growing religion today. I just have to take issue with your implication that because we are few here, we are somehow bereft of Jehovah&#39;s spirit.


My words and coments on this subject were all motivated by love and the course of action I advised was a loving one . No one however agreed with me or even the essence of what I said . Thats a shame . Love is proactive and reactive to the needs of others and if it is not then it is not love.[/b]

I disagree. I did agree with you insofar as I understand the point you were trying to make. However, you do not seem to grasp the point that I was trying to make throughout my contribution to this discussion, because it seems that you only wanted me to say you&#39;re right--and leave it at that, without trying to bring an additional perspective into the matter, and provide a balancing view. I also get the impression that unless Robert were to pull the video and recant and publicly beg forgiveness, that love is not being shown here. He apologized for offending anyone, he has stated that he will not be posting the offensive video on his video site, and yet you are saying that he isn&#39;t showing himself as a loving, caring brother.

Maybe you need to state plainly what it is that will satisfy you (and those offended) in regards to this issue, as you clearly seem to already be expecting a particular course to be taken and are rejecting any middle grounds or conciliatory actions. I would also like you to state plainly how any future incidents will be prevented from offending anyone&#39;s conscience: perhaps by setting up a judgment committee that pre-approves musical selections, wordings and phrases, topics, and projects?

I apologize in advance if my choice of words seems harsh, but you yourself are saying that there is a lack of the fruits of the spirit here, that love isn&#39;t being shown here, that, in effect, unless things are said and done according to the conscience of the offended, the rest of us aren&#39;t very Christian. And when someone tries to provide a balanced view, you accuse them of watering down the Bible&#39;s counsel--even though that someone is simply providing additional Bible passages and examples that have bearing on the discussion.

In any event, I&#39;d like to hear your response to my queries.

<div align="right">Criterion</div>

[watchman]

Can someone tell me what the music is called in Watchmans video so I can research what the lyrics mean ?[/b]

I bought the rights to use that piece from i-stock sounds. It didn&#39;t have a name -- just Gregorian Chant. It sounds, though, like one of Bach&#39;s pieces.

I hate using valuable time discussing this petty sort of stuff, but on the issue of Steadfast&#39;s abrupt departure, I suspect that she was offended over my remarks on a couple of other threads that had nothing to do with my video; particularly her post on the Watchtower&#39;s supposed membership in Wango -- which I showed was not what it appeared to be. And I know she is big into the black pope conspiracy stuff, and I sort of shut Jeshurun&#39;s thread down on that topic. That might have ruffled her feathers too.

Since it has been several weeks since I posted the Gregorian viddy and she privately emailed me to express her indignation over the offending video only the day after I commented on her Wango thread a few days ago, it is apparent to me that the video is not the main issue.

Truth be known, though, I have made efforts to accomadate my sensitive sister. For example, she was one of the most outspoken complainers over the direction the board was going a few months ago, which prompted me to tighten things up, which resulted in the majority of the forum participants leaving to set up a new discussion board. So, now that that problem is over evidently she has a new issue...me.

I am saddened, though, that she at least didn&#39;t sign off and say goodbye to all of you, whom I know are fond of her, as am I.

But things like this happen. People come and people go. That&#39;s the nature of a forum like this. I can&#39;t count the number of people I offend on a regular basis. Judging by the emails I have received over the years most people are offended by something I have written or not written or whatever. Although I do not intentionally set out to offend anyone I accept it as an inevitability.

I would appreciate it if we can just let this topic go and move on. My personal view is, that, if it gets to the point that this board no longer is encouraging to you, then we can just dispense with it altogether. It would certainly be a lot less hassle and distraction for me and Timothy, that&#39;s for sure.

Watchman

[BackToBasics]

Ok then.l I appreciate your responces Watchman. Im happy to let it drop as I dont want to continue bad feeling .
Criterion I wont respond to you as that will continue the negativity .I have a different view and thats the end of it for me .

[watchman]

I am going to have the last word on this thread because this is a bigger issue then just Steadfast. I don&#39;t know what it is, exactly, but this is a pattern that has been repeated over and over with others, who will remain nameless.

Over the years I have had correspondence with hundreds of people. A few develop into regular correspondence, and dare I say "friendship"? I try to make myself available to friends that way. But invariably it seems that those who originally may have expressed their support for my work begin presuming to become my advisors and counselors. Now, don&#39;t get me wrong, I welcome positive feedback and even suggestions. For example, a few weeks ago one of the board members who is a sound engineer emailed me to suggest a better EQ setting for my voice on the podcasts. I followed his suggestion and presto, the podcasts sound better. But when friends presume to become my editors and demand that I do this or that or face the wrath of God, well, that just doesn&#39;t sit well with me.

In Steadfast&#39;s case, I may have been inclined to take down the Gregorian video off of YouTube. But that is not all that she is demanding. She has demanded that I take down "the videos," plural. Evidently, she is not just offended by the Gregorian video but also the most recent one on the pictorial memorial of Jesus Christ. So, that&#39;s what I am dealing with. I prefer to just tune out the noise and move on.

Let me say this: I started e-watchman nearly five years ago without anyone&#39;s permission or input. I did not go into consultation with anyone or seek advice from any human as to the content of the material on e-watchman and I don&#39;t see any reason to start now.

I gave up a lifetime of friendships in the truth when I started down this road. I can personally relate to Psalms 88:8, that reads: "<span style="font-family:Verdana">You have put my acquaintances far away from me; you have set me as something very detestable to them. I am under restraint and cannot go forth." </span>

Indeed, "friends" and acquaintances are nice, but I am fully prepared to go it alone if need be.

Watchman

[watchman]

Uh, it looks like Sister Steadfast gets the last word on this Gregorian thing.

It appears as if I have made a complete ass of myself. Last night over dinner I brought up the Gregorian drama thing with Mrs. Watchman. Having been raised in the Catholic Church she related how at her First Communion there was a choir singing Gregorian style. Not having any connection to the Catholic faith myself, I was completely unaware that Gregorian chants were used in worship in modern times. In my ignorance, I was under the impression that Gregorian was an archaic form of music that modern listeners simply rediscovered and that it did not have any relevance to Catholics in the 21st Century. Obviously, I was wrong. It is perfectly understandable why Steadfast, who is a former Catholic herself, reacted the way she did. I would probably have the same reaction if a fellow JW set a video to Christmas music. So, I have apologised to Steadfast and I have taken the video down.

Perhaps Sister Steadfast will forgive me for being such an dope and she will consider rejoining the forum. :imnotworthy:

A sackcloth and ashes adorned Watchman

[BackToBasics]

Thanks Watchman . Perhaps she will come back .

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

All credit to you Robert, you have done the right thing. I appeal to Steadfast to return to us here, I miss her comments. Aren&#39;t wives wonderful things! lol :icon_rolleyes:

EF

[Jeshurun]

Dear Robert

I would think that anyone who strives to reflect Jehovah&#39;s Spirit would not hold you accountable for something you didn&#39;t realize. We all make the mistake of presuming, every one of us, and nobody more than myself. I applaud you for striving to do all you can to get the message out to people, and it&#39;s true that vidoes can be very effective, but the power of the written word is amazing. All Jehovah gave us is the Bible, because he knew it was all we would need. Please don&#39;t underestimate all you have done, not only in the essays and commentaries, but all the mailbags, blogs, and your wonderful book. When I have a question, the vast majority of the time I can do a google search of the e-Watchman site and get my answer.

Sure would love to add a commentary on Jeremiah to the collection!

Agape

Lou

[stayawake]

Bro watchman,
I really love you
and steadfast I also love you,but no way was I going to get in this,by taking sides.
I am just a on looker. worring about my own salvation.
Hey so no offense is taken,
I love every one lurking and posting and then some.
One can see Satan is already wageing war, with Gods household.
love stayawake

[clay]

Dear Brother Watchman,
How refreshing it was to read your latest post. It has been with anxiety and uneasieness these last comments have been unfolding...where would I now go! o man ! Now everybody saves face and good will is restored! What a nice humble loving thing you did! I was so happy, and relieved! to read your words! whewwwww!!

Steadfast, please, if you are reading this, come back to us, speaking for myself, I miss you. Your input was/is valuable. Even tho we have not had any communication on this discussion board, I wanted to say that both you and Eyes and Ears have upbuilding positive, spiritual-Bible- based mature views, and I for one, have come to enjoy both of your input.
All you guys here are the best! and it is obvious to me that Jehovah is truly blessing this little spot of safety in the deteriorating world around us. I love coming here!

Warm christian love,


clay

[Molly]

Dear Brother Watchman-

When I watched the video, I was annoyed by the music but would not have made a fuss about it because I had no idea of the extent of its significance, especially to those who have been Catholics. So, like Stayawake, I did not want to take sides. Nevertheless, it is obvious that it has affected many on this board. Therefore, I would like to applaud you for your decision to remove the video. I appreciate all your efforts to provide us with spiritual food. I also appreciate your humble apology to Steadfast.

To Steadfast-

Please come back. Your input was invaluable. We need you.

Molly

[Elihu]

Jeshurun,
i think you have said it all
"the power of the written word is amazing"

yes the method by which we came to this knowledge has been through the written word,
the written word can be held up to scriptural scrutiny, and this is How truth seekers can test inspired expressions.
an example being the 1914 doctrine, and how watchman has exposed its falseity by using the written word.

"sure would love to add a comentary to jeremiah to the collection"

i agree


hurry back steadfast, eyes and ears and all those who feel hurt or confused.

agape
Elihu

[Dorcas]

Dear Friends,
I&#39;ve read your comments with so much appreciation! We are learning what it is love-- which holds us together. We are going to make mistakes, we are going to get angry, have our feelings hurt, etc. That means we are FAMILY. We care enough about each other so share our views, even make corrections as necessary. If we agreed on everything, why would we need &#39;discussion&#39;? Remember that love covers a multitude of sins and we need to keep puttng up with one another. Steadfast has done a fantastic amount of research, which can have the affect of making her more knowledgeable/sensitive to certain things. We need to pray on matters and correct one another in love.
I can also say that I have gained a world of knowledge from the material you have shared, Watchman. I have 3 3-ring binders of material from your site. You made me feel that maybe I wasn&#39;t going crazy when I had doubts about some of the WT teachings. I will always be grateful. Perhaps we have all learned a lesson from this incidence, and our love can hold us together. Steadfast, I love you and hope you will be patient with us as we try to learn.
Love to you all,
Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[eyes&ears]

YEAH, WELL WHAT CAN I SAY............I MISSED YOU ALL, SO THERE OKEY DOKEY, I SAID IT!!!! :200: :185: :Love: . DON&#39;T BUG ME!!


LOVE OUT TO YOU ALL.



COLOSSIANS 4:2

Be persevering in prayer, remaining awake in it with thanksgiving.

[James]

YEAH, WELL WHAT CAN I SAY............I MISSED YOU ALL, SO THERE OKEY DOKEY, I SAID IT!!!! :200: :185: :Love: . DON&#39;T BUG ME!!


LOVE OUT TO YOU ALL.U



COLOSSIANS 4:2

Be persevering in prayer, remaining awake in it with thanksgiving.[/b]

Hi E&E,

A very warm welcome back!!!! :ban_dance01:


Love,James

[eyes&ears]

Thanks James

KEEP HOLD N ON TIGHT OKEY DOKEY


LOVE TO YA

E & E

[stayawake]

My Dear e&e,
was overjoyed that your back on the shout box.
I was wondering if my shout would ever get off the board
Ken I hope you got to see it. Miss you.

I just said a prayer today that peace would fall in place among all of us here before the Memorial.
Dorcus I enjoyed your post, I think your right the more you learn about the deeper things of God the more senseitive one becomes.
One of the friends put it just so, by saying Steadfast had to be true to her concience.. Were right behind you steadfast, maybe just a little slower.
Jah is a God of love so we have that going for us. Then too we have Jesus Christ who is the KINGLY LAW of LOVE.

I feel so much better knowing Oakey Dokey our cheerleader is here to give us our daily doses.
Love each and every one of you

stayawake

[Jeshurun]

YEAH, WELL WHAT CAN I SAY............I MISSED YOU ALL, SO THERE OKEY DOKEY, I SAID IT!!!! :200: :185: :Love: . DON&#39;T BUG ME!![/b]

Welcome back, dear sister. :ban_dance02: :ban_dance01:

And Stayawake: "I was wondering if my shout would ever get off the board." :186:

That&#39;s really funny!

Oh Steadfast, is that you? :peepwall:
We want you back too!

PLEEEEEEZ????

[Candace]

I hope anyone that left will consider returning. I&#39;m new here and just getting to know everybody. Was very impressed how this was handled by Robert, he sets a good example for all of us to be humble and admit our mistakes so we can make a way for peace.

Welcome back E&E, I missed your shouts! I lived in Oklahoma a long time ago, and every time you say Okey Dokey you bring back fond memories of the congregation in Bixby, OK.

I have to say this site has had a wonderful impact on my spiritual life. For the first time I am reading the book of Revelation, chapter by chapter, over and over, making notes, questions, timelines, etc. My eyes are opening up and it&#39;s a great feeling. Prior to this I studied the Revelation book just the way the WTS has outlined it......a few verses at a time, with a whole bunch of blah, blah, blah in between. It&#39;s amazing the different perspective you get from reading whole chapters at a time and creating a timeline from what you read.

Sorry, I digress....... :olaboga: What were we talking about? :huh.sml:

[BackToBasics]

Welcome E&E as well . Im glad your back to enocorage us . ;)

[eyes&ears]

Hi B to B and Candace, hope you have a special blessed day.

E & E

[Molly]

Dear Eyes&Ears-

So happy to have you back with us!!!!!

And anyone else who left over this - please also come back.

Molly

[Martha]

YEAH, WELL WHAT CAN I SAY............I MISSED YOU ALL, SO THERE OKEY DOKEY, I SAID IT!!!! :200: :185: :Love: . DON&#39;T BUG ME!! LOVE OUT TO YOU ALL.[/b]
Dear E&E,

Sending {{{hugs}}}

:D
Mx

[Dorcas]

Hello to everyone!
What an awesome time for all of us!! The Memorial of Jesus&#39; death has brought us back together....
Love to all --regulars, newbys, and returnees...
Dorcas :MSN Vlinder:

[stayawake]

Dorcas, I thought the same thing. Jah is certainly a hearer of prayers.
love stayawake

[Nambo]

Hi E & E !
We missed you! :icon_razz:

[eyes&ears]

:blush: HI NAMBO, MOLLY, MARTHA, DORCAS AND EVERYONE, YOU ALL ARE BUGGING ME. (JUST KIDDING) THANK YOU AND I MISSED YOU ALL. HAD TO GO OUT IN THE WILDERNESS FOR A FEW DAYS TO PRAY AND THINK AND TALK TO MY FATHER.

ALL IS WELL. GLAD TO BE HOME AGAIN.

LOVE AND HUGS RIGHT BACK TO YOU ALL.

STOP IT, I&#39;M GETTING NERVOUS.

HMMMM I SURE DID MISS MY SHOUTING OUT. :ban_dance01: :clap: :lol:

E & E

[Nash]

Glad to have you back, Eyes and Ears.

Nash

[James]

Hey everybody,

I just checked the members and see that Olrono is no longer listed. I think it has been more than thirty days since he posted, so I think he got removed due to inactivity.

Does anyone know if he&#39;s o.k.?

Jeshurun, I thought I recall you saying you have his number, can you help?

James

[Jeshurun]

Hey everybody,

I just checked the members and see that Olrono is no longer listed. I think it has been more than thirty days since he posted, so I think he got removed due to inactivity.

Does anyone know if he&#39;s o.k.?

Jeshurun, I thought I recall you saying you have his number, can you help?

James[/b]

I had a long chat with Ron the other night. He&#39;s on the west coast and I&#39;m on the east coast, so I was up late...

He&#39;s alive and well and still sleuthing the WT-UN Romans 13 &#39;superior authorites&#39; issue. Ron is a very unique man, and I really do appreciate you asking about him James. He will really feel good when I send him a link to your post.

I&#39;m finally able to sit out on my deck with my laptop, under the umbrella with the dog hangin&#39; next to me. He can smell the exact wherabouts of every single dog within a half mile radius, from the confines of my backyard. . Handsome dude, too, his name is Rudy. Rescued him from euthanasia 3 years ago. Best dog I ever had....

Hope everyone is having a wonderful Saturday and enjoying the weather like I am. I&#39;m playing my second baseball game after five rainouts tomorrow morning and it&#39;s supposed to hit 77F...Hallelujah!

Agape
Lou