Discussing The Ngo Topic

[Redpill]

I understand that some people have been DF'd for questioning on the NGO topic. Would anyone here who had that experience care to relate how that came about? Like, was just the fact that you knew of the NGO involvement seen as apostasy, or were you encouraged to accept the Society's explanation, and couldn't?

Also, in general, I'd like to know if anyone has broached the subject with other (non-online) Witnesses. How did you bring it up, and what kind of responses did you get?

I am toying with the idea of mentioning it to someone. Casual like, "Hey what do you think about that UN thing? What, you didn't hear about that? Oh, a lot of people are talking about it. Where'd I hear it? Oh, I don't want to name names or anything. You really haven't heard about that?"

Probably a bad idea. Give me your horror stories and convince me. :)

[DoubtingThomas]

Be VERY careful Redpill. I know of at least one other member on this forum who was recently hauled before a Judicial Committee for telling others about some of the things he had learned from this site and directing them here.

[Jeshurun]

Hiya Redpill, welcome to the forum!

Asking questions about the NGO topic wil probably get you a back room meeting. They'll tell you about the library card fairy tale and then tell you to go your merry way and don't bring it up to anyone. If you bring it up again, then you're asking for a judicial committee. These guys are company men and they have no mercy for dissidents.

Whether or not your conscience allows you to stay in the org is a personal choice, which can only be made after reflecting in prayer and asking for guidance. Jehovah will lead you to do what's best for you.

The best thing you can do is bite your lip and grin and bear it, if you want to remain in good standing. One thing I have done is to ask Jehovah for forgiveness for this NGO debacle because there is community guilt on all of our parts that we are responsible for even though we've been railroaded by the GB and we had no knowledge of this. At this point your endurance at the meetings is showing Jehovah much about your dedication to him. You are not blindly following the GB but you are sticking around, and that will be a very good thing in the future because things will get much worse and your brethren will have a great asset in you at that time to help guide them through the disasters that are coming.

Agape
Lou

[Juan]

My df-ing began with me giving somebody a copy of the "Imagining Paradise" article. When I was hauled before the JC I became so annoyed with the elders attitude that I expressed doubt about 1914 and mentioned the NGO caper. It was like waving a red flag at a bull. Quick as a flash, my so called friends (the elders), morphed into unreasoning inquisitors. I was labled an apostate and booted out.

[stayawake]

I agree best to bite your tongue, before you say anything inside if you plan on staying.
I myself slowly drifted away and so did my family, but i am in a very good setting as we have called on others who have drifted away thru the years for other reasons, so we have the friendship of at least a doz others,that now also know the truth about the truth, and are delited to find that Jah can be worshipped anywhere.
To be d/f for knowledge of the WT sins, one would have a very hard time getting reinstated ,as HOW COULD one be repentant about telling the truth?? You would have to agree that you were wrong ,and then be watched the rest of your life.
So be care ful as I know there are three annointed on the board who exposed what they knew about the NGO to elders and were cut off from their cong, BUT NOT from Jehovah,
There is no scriptual reason to d/f one for telling the TRUTH but its been done. You will find with the WT Society (,sad to say )
UNITY comes first ,
Then Truth. love stayawake

[Kenneth]

Hi Redpill

My advice is don't go there unless you are prepared to face the consequences. Many here have had a bitter experience over the NGO affair and in all probability wish they'd said nothing in the first place. If you go there you will be faced with two choices, either you are prepared to accept the library card tale or it's the highway. If you question it there's a possibility that you will come under suspicion as to where you acquired the information in the first place. If you speak to someone about it in the congregation either they will inform the elders or it will travel and be traced back to you either way. Stayawake makes a valid point if you were disfellowshipped over the matter and applied for reinstatement "You would have to agree that you were wrong, and then be watched the rest of your life." Lets remember the sin is theirs we though bear the guilt in the end. Jehovah is fully aware of the matter and this wont pass without punishment. Too many have be punished already for their misdemeanour. If all it was to attain a library card then why don't they just produce the evidence and stop stumbling and beating their fellowman. It's supposed to be a charity and therefore transparent why we can't see the original documents I don't know, it would provide the truth once and for all, but for some reason that something they want to hide, why I don't know.

Kenneth

[eyes&ears]

Hi RP,

Can you say disfellowshipped.

I am now working towards reinstatement for not being discreet.

I have said here many many times, if I had known what I know now, I would have done things differently.

The old worldy saying TREAD LIGHTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK.

Jesus saying below:

Matthew 10:16 "LOOK! I AM SENDING YOU FORTH AS SHEEP AMIDST WOLVES; THEREFORE PROVE YOURSELVES CAUTIOUS AS SERPENTS AND YET INNOCENT AS DOVES."

SOLOMON SAYS: ECC 3:1 For everthing there is an appointed time, even a time for every affair under the heavens:

verse (7) A TIME TO RIP APART AND A TIME TO SEW TOGETHER; A TIME TO KEEP QUIET AND A TIME TO SPEAK.

You have read Watchman's experiences and other helpful information have you not?????

Make sure you pray to Jehovah no matter what it is you choose to do AND ALWAYS MAKE SURE AND COUNT THE COST.

Let Jehovah direct your steps in all matters, especially in a matter like this.

You will reap what you sow and suffer the not so good consequences.

TIMING IS EVERYTHING AND SO IS THE DIRECTION OF JEHOVAH.

Hope this helps you

E & E

Welcome aboard again OKEY DOKEY

[BenjaminiteII]

So be care ful as I know there are three annointed on the board who exposed what they knew about the NGO to elders and were cut off from their cong, BUT NOT from Jehovah,[/b]


hello [I'm new to this board]

how do you know this?
seems mad that annointed ones would be DFed...


From my own point of view, it has been enlightening reading and finding out about our involvement with the UN, and certainly it has been depressing and confusing!

Is there any other secular proof of this other than the Guardian article?

I ask because I discussed this whole thing with my wife and she asked an elder (her father) about it, without my knowledge, and he said he was going to look into it.
I said to her that he would certainly find it on Wikipedia!
I just wondered if there was anything else really?

I see trouble brewing for myself here and just want to be armed.

Thing is, I don't go to the churches of Christendom because of their blatant hypocrisy and Pedophile clergymen. Yet the exact same thing is happening in the religion I have been brought up in!!

How am I meant to accept and put into practise teachings and principles from the F+D slave when they don't do it themselves??!

I am very upset by all of this and have been down about it for a while now.


All external links and advise you have will be greatly appreciated! even if its via PM

thanks

[watchman]

Hi Benjaminite II, welcome to the board.

The best source of information on the WT's NGO affair is the Watchtower itself -- and the UN. The UN's DPI posted an official comment, which is linked to in Strange Bedfellows (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-united-nations-strange-bedfellows.html), in which the head of the DPI said that the WT did in fact contractually agree to meet the criteria for NGO's to be officially associated with the UN. The WT has admitted that they were an associate level NGO for 10 years. However, they say that the reason that joined the UN was so they could get a library pass. However, I and others called and emailed the UN library and they responded saying that it was not necessary to be an associated NGO in order to use the Dag Hammarskjold Library in New York. Besides, there is a UN repository library at Columbia University in New York that is available to the public. (I no longer have the librarian's e-mail response. If you or anyone else wishes to contact the UN library here is the contact info (http://www.un.org/Depts/dhl/direct.htm))

The WT says that a UN official mistakenly told one of their reps that they couldn't use the library unless they became associated with the DPI. That is simply nonsense -- a lie. Every applying NGO is required to submit proof that they are capable and committed to carrying out an effective information campaign in behalf of the Department of Public Information at the UN. The WT expects JW 's to believe that the UN made an exception in their case and did not require them to meet the same criteria as the hundreds of other NGOs that are associated with the UN. Of course, most JW's are gullible and believe anything and everything the WT says or doesn't say.

By far, though, the most overwhelming evidence that the WT knowingly agreed to support the United Nations is found within the pages of the Watchtower and AWAKE magazines. In Strange Bedfellows and the article Plumbing the Depths of the Watchtower's Prostitution (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-prostitution-awake-supplemental.html)there is in-depth documentation of the extent to which Bethel went to meet the criteria for Associate level NGOs. We even have a link to the UN's website (http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm)that lists a specific AWAKE article that was written to commemorate the UN's 50th anniversary of the formulation of their human rights policy, which shows that the WT wrote and submitted articles that were specifically intended to inform the public about the UN's activities and accomplishments.

Finally, in Strange Bedfellows it is documented that the WT has been politically involved in other areas as well and they did in fact receive certain perks from the UN, such as aid in cutting through red tape in delivering humaitarian assistance. Apparently the WT even got the use of UN aircraft for the purpose, which Jehovah's Witnesses in France actually admitted in a special publication called Aide to Africa. (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-united-nations-strange-bedfellows-part-12.html)
These are the facts that anyone who wishes may examine for themselves.

Watchman

[stayawake]

Hi Ben,
Welcome to those who really love Jehovah

I know its a hard pill to swollow , to find that the FDS are not faithful at all. I know exactly how you feel.
I could not believe it (NGO) I was sick,
I would have laid down my life prior to that knowledge if need be to proof my faith.
Now i realize that it was man I trusted, My faith was built on what the GB said, I really had not built up a faith of my own.
That was another hard pill to swollow. The spiritaual agony, and torment was torture, I was being pulled apart. I had to really get a grip on myself.

Ben please dont even consider looking into Christemdom. All of us here that werent raised as JWs came out from there.

All is not lost, lets look at the good we have.
We know Jah is one God, theres no hell fire, when one dies they are oblivious of everything as the soul does really die.
Then we have the main doctrine that no one else has. We understand the RANSOM SACRIFICE of christ. We know that he died to buy back what Adam lost. Which is living forever here on earth. This was Jahs purpose for Adams creation.
So there we have all these beautiful truths to build a stong FAITH on. We must make the truth OUR OWN. Thats where we fell short. We became lazy which allowed men to come in and mind control.

Be ever so grateful that our hearts must be inclined to be alarmed as to what we are seeing.
It also gives one a idea of how Jehovah is viewing the picture
We must LOVE what Jah loves and Hate what Jah hates. No sitting on the fence so to speak, or like Elisha would say ,we cannot limp on two opinions
But the decision is all ours

Jusus did say His Father was looking for those who would worship Him in spirit and in Truth. Well now the time has come, to start building on the strong foundation that Jah gave us and tear down what has been built.
Please what you dont want to do is throw the baby out with the bathwater. Hold on tight as to what came from Jehovah, and reject what has been recieved from the weeds(MEN)

Now how do I know For sure, that there are three on the board that are annointed( THAT I KNOW OF )may be more,
Because Watchman himself is here, and I spoke to the other two. Keep in mind though that they all profess to be of yhe annointed, that is between them and Jehovah.

Another scriptual point to remember is there was to be eleventh hour workers that would come in at the end of the day and recieve the same pay as all the good wheat that worked all day would recieve.
The sad thing is the GB has applied that parable to the Great Crowd.
To get your head on straight , keep this in mind there must be a deprograming of the mind

Once you really understand what watchman has tried to get accross ,then everything makes sense and ones eyes are really open. Here goes

Jah is just dealing at the present with His Household, These are the annointed ADOPTED sons of GOD. They make up the present TEMPLE opf God as Paul put it
this Temple that Jahs spirit dwells in is made up of LIVING STONES (144,000)

Christ while on earth became the CORNOR stone of this Temple. He was collecting those who would make up this living Temple.
All of Christ parables apply to the living stones that would make up this temple. ( Jahs Household )
Satan had oppertunty to try to throw a monkey wrench into this building, thats where the weeds come into the picture. Read 2 Thess 2: 1-12

I did not mean for this to be so long ,so i will jump over to ur other question about the WT and the NGO.
Like i said
Yes I read it in the UK Guardian newspaper after it hit the enternet, but I had to be absolutely sure.
This is conversation is shortened:
I called the United Nations, It took at least four connections before I finially got to speak to the one I had hoped to get.
I had told him that my spiritallity was at stake and asked him to please work with me.

He assured me that it was true, that the WT had been a NGO for ten years. He also wanted to know why my concern as Thousands of calls had come in.
In fact he said a special tel line had to be put in for him as the calls were tying up the other lines ,
.will continue

[stayawake]

Sorry but a bell rang and I didnt want to lose what I already had wrote. Forgive any miss spelled words.
Well any way quickly :mellow: back where I left off

He wondered why this would mean soo much to my faith , I explained to him how we were taught from the book in Revelation how they were the image of the beast.

I could tell then that he wasnt fomilliar with the Christain Bible but it ended up with yes the WT could have had a library card but prefered a PASS
which required their becoming a NGO.
again I still had to be reassured and he then told me it was his name that was on all DPI and NGO documents.
I believe it was Paul Hoffel this was in early 2005. I must add he was very easy to speak with.

So Ben
with that and all the documents I read ,was proof enough for me
We are not to even join the YMCA as it would make us part of the world
and the WT willingly wrote their name in a log along with all the other realigious organizations,that were NGOs . There was a copy of this on the enternet,so I also seen that

I quietly walked away in DISGUST

love stayawake

[billy]

Welcome Benjaminite II :)

I found reading Watchman's book "Jehovah Has Become KIng" very insightful - it helped me to see and apply scriptures that the wts rarely applies to itself - and gave me a new way of looking at what could be going on with the wts and my observations of how so many things dont seem right in the organization

I agree with what Stayawake said about our being programed and the mind control tactics the organization uses to keep us from thinking

I have also come to see the difference between religion - building our faith on a man made structure and worshipping Jehovah - building our faith on God, Jesus and the Bible

Thank you Watchman and Stayawake I enjoyed your posts

sister billy

[bystander]

[quote]...the WT...did in fact receive certain perks from the UN, such as aid in cutting through red tape in delivering humaitarian assistance. Apparently the WT even got the use of UN aircraft for the purpose...


It sounds to me like the WT pulled a fast one on the UN and then tried to hide it so as not to draw the UN's ire. Clever.