Pedophilia Being Denounced In Other Religions

[Shibboleth]

Here is a great news article from MSNBC concerning Baptists and molestors.

Baptists urged to root out molestors (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17265721/)



Here is an interesting quote from the article :


“In any denomination where you have these men with this power that’s not questioned and you have these people who are vulnerable ... you’re going to have a problem,” Vasquez said.[/b]

[Kenneth]

What is it with Religion, child molesters and the cover-up? Theses places are havens for theses twisted individuals. What must they say 'Hey I know lets go down to the local church they wont know who I am, and when they find out sure they will keep an eye on me but I will have autonomy? With theses attitudes religion becomes a magnet for the sick minded. The problem is religions don't have independent review boards, it's all done internally with there own interests at heart instead of the victims. They all have their policies and they all differ from one church to another. What the authorities need to do is to enforce Caesar policy's on all religions as respect molestation as they seem incapable of governing themselves.

Kenneth

[DoubtingThomas]

Not only do congregation elders of JW's have a fudiciary responsibility to protect children from pedophiles, but by extension, the spiritual shepherds of all congregations (regardless of the denomination) also have a fudiciary repsonsibilty.

I have shared this before on another thread, but I have seen no evidence that this social problem of child molestation is any greater amoung JW's. It is a problem throughout society, and knows no limits as far as race, religion or national boundary. The BIG difference is that we as JW's carry God's name. And the very existence of the problem within the organization proves that we are not in a spiritual paradise.

There is a brother in my congregation who is the Deputy DA in our County. He has been prosecuting these cases for years, and some of them have received much media coverage and publicity in my community for there notoriety. The brother is somewhat of a celebrity for being in the news regularly. (In fact, he is currently prosecuting a child abuse case where the man tortured and murdered his 3 year old son. It is a capital offense case with the accused facing the death penalty. The case has received quite a bit of publicity locally). Anyway, this brother has sent many individuals to prison for lenghty sentences for this crime. And he recently shared with me that these (child molestation) are the toughest of all cases to proesecute.

He was not referring to JW cases in particular, but he ment that it is very diificult to obtain convictions in jury trials for these cases, because there is usually a lack of physical evidence and/or eye witnesses. So we can see how it is possible for many wolves in sheeps clothing to infiltrate congregations of JW's (or congregations of other denominations such as the Baptist faith in the above article) and take advantage of unsuspecting children and parents. I believe the responsibility ultimately lies with parents to properly protect there young children from these predators. That is until Jehovah steps in and cleanses the entire system!

[James]

<strike>Governing Body</strike> Pope to apologize for sex scandal

Pope Benedict XVI has said he will apologize for decades of sexual abuse of children by Australian priests.

BBC NEWS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7503246.stm)

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

<strike>Governing Body</strike> Pope to apologize for sex scandal

Pope Benedict XVI has said he will apologize for decades of sexual abuse of children by Australian priests.

BBC NEWS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7503246.stm)[/b]


At least he will make a public apology!!

EF

[Jinnvisible]

Anyway, this brother has sent many individuals to prison for lenghty sentences for this crime. And he recently shared with me that these (child molestation) are the toughest of all cases to proesecute.

He was not referring to JW cases in particular, but he ment that it is very diificult to obtain convictions in jury trials for these cases, because there is usually a lack of physical evidence and/or eye witnesses. So we can see how it is possible for many wolves in sheeps clothing to infiltrate .........[/b]

This has to be true. How could it not be the most difficult of issues. I think it is definately a point worth remembering. That no-where is this an easy straight forward concern. It`s proberbly partly why many people lose thier nerve over it.

[knowledge.seeker]

"Southern Baptists passed a resolution in 2002 urging its churches to discipline ministers guilty of sexual abuse and to cooperate with authorities in their prosecution." Quote from article

Has such admonition been advocated by the WTS, and to what degree have they followed up? Have you ever heard a letter being read from the platform at the Service Meeting whereby a resolution has been made by the WTS stating that such discipline will exist, and that persons guilty of this un-namable act will be prosecuted? Probably not. In fact, I&#39;m willing to bet that most, if not close to all, of the congregations worldwide fail to see this as a problem.

---------------------

Child abuse -- in all of its forms -- is one of the most heinous offenses a person can commit, and ironically, one of the most difficult to prosecute (or detect) as stated in one of the posts.

Now, from a JW perspective, it is almost inconceivable for a fellow worshipper to commit such an act, and when it is found that such offense has been committed, it is immediately relegated to "he was not a true christian/jw." And that may be the case. But I think the folly of the WTS, down the the individual congregations, is the cover-up, partly induced by the fear of bad press.

It is sickening to think that these individuals are "protected", in a sense, by the members of their church (be it catholic, baptist, protestant, or JW). The society has yet to acknowledge that such crimes exist in their realm; how could it be acknowledged in we live in a spiritual "paradise"? To make such acknowledgement is to give in to the notion that no such paradise exist. It is this lofty, higher-than-thou, subtle arrogant attitude that has taken the society to the place where it currently stands.

-KS

[James]

Child abuse -- in all of its forms -- is one of the most heinous offenses a person can commit,
-KS[/b]

KS, I agree.

In my perspective, sexual crimes (sins) are not all equal.

Heinous: Child molestation (the innocent)

Perverse: Homosexuality (against the natural inclinations)

The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”

Struggle: The normal desires towards the opposite sex but, circumstances not permitting a marital arrangement.


agape,
James

[EmmaKay]

"Southern Baptists passed a resolution in 2002 urging its churches to discipline ministers guilty of sexual abuse and to cooperate with authorities in their prosecution." Quote from article

Has such admonition been advocated by the WTS, and to what degree have they followed up? Have you ever heard a letter being read from the platform at the Service Meeting whereby a resolution has been made by the WTS stating that such discipline will exist, and that persons guilty of this un-namable act will be prosecuted? Probably not. In fact, I&#39;m willing to bet that most, if not close to all, of the congregations worldwide fail to see this as a problem.

---------------------

Child abuse -- in all of its forms -- is one of the most heinous offenses a person can commit, and ironically, one of the most difficult to prosecute (or detect) as stated in one of the posts.

Now, from a JW perspective, it is almost inconceivable for a fellow worshipper to commit such an act, and when it is found that such offense has been committed, it is immediately relegated to "he was not a true christian/jw." And that may be the case. But I think the folly of the WTS, down the the individual congregations, is the cover-up, partly induced by the fear of bad press.

It is sickening to think that these individuals are "protected", in a sense, by the members of their church (be it catholic, baptist, protestant, or JW). The society has yet to acknowledge that such crimes exist in their realm; how could it be acknowledged in we live in a spiritual "paradise"? To make such acknowledgement is to give in to the notion that no such paradise exist. It is this lofty, higher-than-thou, subtle arrogant attitude that has taken the society to the place where it currently stands.

-KS[/b]

Hi there KS,

And welcome to you! (I&#39;ll post a proper welcome in your welcome thread ;) )

I think that what you wrote is right on.

I really wish that there were some compensation for those that face all types of atrocities that have happened to them in their respective religion and/or lives in general that is caused at the hands of other&#39;s. This crime is one of the hardest to prosecute. I read somewhere that only 4% of all cases tried (In the state that I live in) actually get a conviction and serve jail time.....other&#39;s take a plea or get off with a slap on the hand or nothing at all.
Probably because it&#39;s one of the hardest things to prove, especially when it&#39;s only molestation. Rape I would think is easier to prove, there are a lot of women that won&#39;t come forward or drop the charges because of embarassment or other reasons, shunning from family or friends....IMO, I think there&#39;s a stigma that follows a person once they come forward with what happened to them. She becomes the one that people won&#39;t go near because they become afraid that they will get accused as well.
So the victim gets revictimized by family and friends.
I have seen this first hand, with my own experience and with my ex-step-daughter who was raped by her Step-father....it amazed me to see the whole family, who at one point supported her, then turn around and say that she was a liar....they all turned on her. It was one of the saddest things I had ever seen. He only got a slap on the wrist for his crime, and she was disowned by her entire family, including her Mother.

So, the one place that so many of us had thought at one time was a safe haven, a place to recieve comfort and safety from such like one&#39;s, we get shunned and &#39;disowned&#39; by our &#39;family&#39; and &#39;friends&#39;.....

Of course, that&#39;s probably a broad statement by me, I&#39;m sure there are some out there that have been embraced by their loved ones to face this horrible thing....At least I would certainly hope so.

Love,
Emma

[knowledge.seeker]

IMO, I think there&#39;s a stigma that follows a person once they come forward with what happened to them. She becomes the one that people won&#39;t go near because they become afraid that they will get accused as well.
So the victim gets revictimized by family and friends.[/b]

So true, and the reason--I feel-- has a lot to do with the thwarted way of thinking that we have been sublty instilled all of our lives: "Avoid defamation to the congregation at all costs".

Once a victim of child abuse, sexual molestation, or any form of perverse sexual act comes forward he/she is looked at as a person who puts his/her personal well-being before they congregation.

"How dare you accuse your brother"; "he is only a child and does not know what he&#39;s talking about"; "she&#39;s just causing trouble".

It&#39;s so amusing that the benefit of the doubt is hardly given to the victim.

But... their time will come



-KS

[diamondiiz]

I think what the problem is that there is no education on the child abuse or any other form of abuse coming from the WTS. (I don&#39;t mean education as in showing that the world does this and does that. But that there are actual wicked men in the congregations) They tell people what a married person can and can not do in their bedroom but they don&#39;t come out and talk about the pedophile problem or loopholes. We are living in a sick society which is degrading by the day and WTS should be educating the congregations that there is no room for any abusers in this regard. They should encourage people to come forward if they were victims and the earlier they come forward the better.

There are different degrees of what could be considered a sexual abuse I suppose and some may need different approaches. Pedophile cases though, stand out and these are the ones that need to be addressed through proper investigation (not that the other cases of abuse shouldn&#39;t be) by the authorities. If there is a known pedophile in the congregation an announcement should be made regarding this individual if the law allows for it. If the law doesn&#39;t allow for it there should be another means of protecting the congregation and the public. "JWs" are different from most other religions in that, that they go house to house and approach the public and congregations are closer in associating with one another. Not only are the members of the congregation at risk not knowing that there is a possible pedophile in their midst but also the public.

I guess this topic is so huge that it&#39;s hard to express everything in few paragraphs but I guess the bottom line is that there has to be a differentiation between moral sins and criminal sins. It&#39;s different when 2 people commit an adultery and when one person rapes another. WTS has to separate these and start to deal with them as such. I don&#39;t understand how Mt 18:16 can be so misconstrued!

[Peter]

</span>

[PRAYSER]

... protecting Jehovah and his organization is more important than anything. Afterall, that is why Jesus died. To protect his father&#39;s name. What Jesus did and what that means is more important than a child or anything.</span>[/b]

The above quote is one of the biggest lies that the Watchtower Society tells to deceive us all. Jehovah God needs no human protection and Jehovah&#39;s NAME needs no human protection. Jesus died for our sins and for the sins of the whole world and not to protect anything.

The 3rd of the 10 commandments states according to NRSV [at Exodus 20:7]

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD your God will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

The Watchtower Society&#39;s use of Jehovah God&#39;s name as an excuse to cover over wickedness is blatant misuse of His name. Covering over wickedness and injustice brings reproach upon Jehovah God&#39;s name and Witnesses who do this do so out of personal egotism and hypocrisy so as to appear morally and spiritually superior to Christians who are not Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses and to so-call worldly people.

Sinful humans have no role in the vindication of Jehovah God&#39;s name, the most we can do is make His name known and honor it by our faithful conduct.
Jesus Christ will vindication His father&#39;s name when he returns to bring judgement upon all of those professing to be his disciples [after which he will appoint the faithful over all of his belongings] and upon this wicked system of things.

JF RUTHERFORD appointed himself and Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses to a task [the vindication of Jehovah&#39;s name] that no sinful human or humans are capable of doing, and that neither Jehovah God nor Jesus Christ has ever appointed or commissioned sinful humans to do.

Respectfully

<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">DJABRIL

[PRAYSER]

<div class='quotemain'>Child abuse -- in all of its forms -- is one of the most heinous offenses a person can commit,
-KS[/b]

KS, I agree.

In my perspective, sexual crimes (sins) are not all equal.

Heinous: Child molestation (the innocent)

Perverse: Homosexuality (against the natural inclinations)

The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
"God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another."

Struggle: The normal desires towards the opposite sex but, circumstances not permitting a marital arrangement.


agape,
James
[/b][/quote]


In Scripture sexual crimes or sexual violence [child molestation, rape, etc.] are never presented as private matters to be settled between the victim and the victimiser alone. The Watchtower Society&#39;s application of Matthew 18:15-17 and the Law Covenant&#39;s 2 witness rule to sexual crimes and sexual violence is a gross perversion of Scripture and is totally senseless.

If a woman was raped in ancient Israel she did not have to bring 2 witnesses to testify in her behalf.

The Watchtower Society&#39;s secret judicial process is also another unscriptural practise created to both pervert justice and to evade the laws of the state.

JF RUTHERFORD created this system of secret judicial committees after he and the Watchtower Society Board of Directors lost a $15,000 civil judgement for defaming, libeling and slandering the Watchtower Society&#39;s lawyer Olin R. Moyle who resigned [July 21,1939] and left Bethel after lodging compliants against JF RUTHERFORD&#39;S unchristian behavior and conduct and the low moral conditions at Bethel.

Olin R. Moyle sued based on what was written about him in the Watchtower 15 October 1939, pages 316-17.

The Watchtower Society&#39;s secret judicial process was created to obstruct justice and protect the Watchtower Society&#39;s assetts from civil damages [law suits].

Respectfully

DJABRIL

[uglyandthin]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Child abuse -- in all of its forms -- is one of the most heinous offenses a person can commit,
-KS[/b]

KS, I agree.

In my perspective, sexual crimes (sins) are not all equal.

Heinous: Child molestation (the innocent)

Perverse: Homosexuality (against the natural inclinations)

The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
"God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another."

Struggle: The normal desires towards the opposite sex but, circumstances not permitting a marital arrangement.


agape,
James
[/b][/quote]


In Scripture sexual crimes or sexual violence [child molestation, rape, etc.] are never presented as private matters to be settled between the victim and the victimiser alone. The Watchtower Society&#39;s application of Matthew 18:15-17 and the Law Covenant&#39;s 2 witness rule to sexual crimes and sexual violence is a gross perversion of Scripture and is totally senseless.

If a woman was raped in ancient Israel she did not have to bring 2 witnesses to testify in her behalf.

The Watchtower Society&#39;s secret judicial process is also another unscriptural practise created to both pervert justice and to evade the laws of the state.

JF RUTHERFORD created this system of secret judicial committees after he and the Watchtower Society Board of Directors lost a $15,000 civil judgement for defaming, libeling and slandering the Watchtower Society&#39;s lawyer Olin R. Moyle who resigned [July 21,1939] and left Bethel after lodging compliants against JF RUTHERFORD&#39;S unchristian behavior and conduct and the low moral conditions at Bethel.

Olin R. Moyle sued based on what was written about him in the Watchtower 15 October 1939, pages 316-17.

The Watchtower Society&#39;s secret judicial process was created to obstruct justice and protect the Watchtower Society&#39;s assetts from civil damages [law suits].

Respectfully

DJABRIL
[/b][/quote]

Hi Prayser:

Although you and I disagree on some things and agree on many others, I agree with one of your points here in this comment about as much as I can agree on anything. Jehovah can and has taken care of his own reputation and does not need any imperfect men (even those trying to please him) to come to his aid in this regard. Jehovah is perfect in all his activities and is flawless in everything he does and has done as Duet. 32:4 and many others will attest to this fact. When members of Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses invoke this defense for thier activities to cover up atrocities that happen in the congregation, whether they be brothers and sisters who commit all types of crimes or child molestation, or the "older men" who are appointed by the congregation to deal with such matters, what they are really trying to protect is thier own reputations and the reputation of the God they bow down before, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the Governing Body of that organization. At least that is my experience in these matters. They argueably do need protection, but in the long run this type of activity will not only be counterproductive but will eventually do just the opposite of it&#39;s original intention. It will expose the organization to it&#39;s core as being corrupt, unloving of either Jehovah or his people and will shine the light of truth on the fact that what really motivates this is not Love for God but a lack of Love (or at the least misdirected love for God and for thier brothers).
<div align="left">God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. ¹⁷ This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because, just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. ¹⁸ There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. ¹⁹ As for us, we love, because he first loved us.</div>
²⁰ If anyone makes the statement: "I love God," and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. ²¹ And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.

You see if they truely loved Jehovah they would have no fear of what those on the outside thought of them. They would do the right thing even though doing so may tarnish thier reputations initially, because they would know they were doing the right thing based on real love and when all things were exposed, their course of action and reputation would be restored to it&#39;s rightful place by the only ones who really count, Jehovah, Jesus and all lovers of truth. We cannot do one single thing to either besmerch Jehovah&#39;s reputation or repair it, we can only try to accomplish everything with real love.

In the case of child molestation, real love would be putting the childs best interest at the heart of the matter (even in rare cases where children falsely accuse adults, because in such cases the allegation of abuse is merely a symptom of a much bigger problem the child has that needs attention by qualified adults). Children are basically helpless in this matter and are the ones who will need a lifetime of help through this difficult time and times. There is where the thrust of Love should be directed.

It is also not loving toward the perpetrator of the crime to cover it over in any way. That is the soil in which the fruit of molestation grows best. If these crimes are not dealt with out in the open (of course with all necessary confidentiality) it only gives the molester the idea that they indeed can repeatedly get away with this detestable crime and have no need to address the severe problems that they have with their own twisted personalities. I know that this problem will only be solved in the Kingdom of God, but for now, the worst thing that can be done is to act like the problem does not exist and that we are in a spiritual paradise and everything is rosey, it is not and we are not, yet! These men and the occasional women have to be confronted and brought to task for thier horrible activities. They need to be prosecuted by the law, recieve the punishment that they deserve, and then and only then should their spiritual interests be addressed. It is unloving to think that by just sweeping this "one isolated incident" under the rug that it will just go away and nothing else will come of it. It will always fester and multiply.

So, the WTBTS has followed a course of "fear" and not Love. The sooner they figure this out the better off everyone will be (but good for me, I am not holding my breath). This applies to all people in all organizations, not just the WT, and it is my hope that very soon all will be forced to deal with this problem in a scriptural and loving way under the Kingdom of God, Come Lord Jesus, Come.

uglyandthin

[panda]

Does anyone recall parents taking their eight, ten and eleven year olds to the loo and waiting outside for them, (male and female) this happens all the time in my congregation...I don&#39;t remember that going on years ago.?

[arimatthewdavies]

i look at these abuse coments i am totaly amazed by so many people who share my same veiws, on this matter,my childhood suffered sexual,violent,racial and oral abuses on every day ,2 step fathers and an entire familey with a congregational elder as the head of household,these kind of people hang togeather,what can i say or do now 43 years latter? i praise the name of jehovah that im no hater of jehovah or his people.but my own brother who i havent seen in 20 years avoids us, ive tried many time to stay active in the hall but i can never stay active its like memorys of a nightmare,i pray to jehovah very often for me to be able to functional,and i never miss an opourtunity to speak of him but what i would not give to be a faithful active wittness in the hall,somehow i just know that jehovah is about to find a use for me and i live for that day,i hope someone will benefeit from my posts here,jehovahs blessing to all of you

[panda]

The above quote is one of the biggest lies that the Watchtower Society tells to deceive us all. Jehovah God needs no human protection and Jehovah's NAME needs no human protection. Jesus died for our sins and for the sins of the whole world and not to protect anything.

The 3rd of the 10 commandments states according to NRSV [at Exodus 20:7]

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD your God will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

The Watchtower Society's use of Jehovah God's name as an excuse to cover over wickedness is blatant misuse of His name. Covering over wickedness and injustice brings reproach upon Jehovah God's name and Witnesses who do this do so out of personal egotism and hypocrisy so as to appear morally and spiritually superior to Christians who are not Jehovah's Witnesses and to so-call worldly people.

Sinful humans have no role in the vindication of Jehovah God's name, the most we can do is make His name known and honor it by our faithful conduct.
Jesus Christ will vindication His father's name when he returns to bring judgement upon all of those professing to be his disciples [after which he will appoint the faithful over all of his belongings] and upon this wicked system of things.

JF RUTHERFORD appointed himself and Jehovah's Witnesses to a task [the vindication of Jehovah's name] that no sinful human or humans are capable of doing, and that neither Jehovah God nor Jesus Christ has ever appointed or commissioned sinful humans to do.

Respectfully

<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">DJABRIL[/SIZE]Hello Prayser, I agree whole heartedly with all you have said here. Especially



The Watchtower Society's use of Jehovah God's name as an excuse to cover over wickedness is blatant misuse of His name. Covering over wickedness and injustice brings reproach upon Jehovah God's name and Witnesses who do this do so out of personal egotism and hypocrisy so as to appear morally and spiritually superior to Christians who are not Jehovah's Witnesses and to so-call worldly people.

They show a lack of faith, love and they elevate themselves above Christ, taking on the role of vindicator, but as said that is just all to easy to use in disguise of covering over wrongs, pride and fear.:(

[watchman]

Now this sounds familiar. You could take out the word Vatican and plug in Watchtower and the story would be pretty accurate. BCC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8572875.stm)

[arimatthewdavies]

jesus said if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out and if your hand sins cut it off! im all for that cut off the offending member from pedophiles and i gurentee their will be a hugh decrease in sex crime.