Afraid To Be Baptized

[bimp5]

This question is to those who have been baptized or have made the decision to be baptized. Before you were baptized how did you feel about getting baptized (If that makes any sense). What I'm trying to find out is did you feel like you weren't worthy to be baptized or that everything had to be perfect in your life before you made the dedication to Jehovah? Did you feel like you had too many problems in your life that needed fixing before you got baptized? :sad2:

Those who are not baptized please feel free to answer or share experiences or comments as well. ;)

[shikinah]

Yes i did, and felt you had to be near enough perfect..so to this day its never happened. But maybe it was for the best, because since then i have had to research the bible and look for many answers. Its not about being perfect its about are we ready to make a life long commitment to Jehovah.

Sisterly Love.
Elizabeth.

[SWORDOFJAH]

Don't be afarid. First Jehovah doesn't not want you to be perfect,but to have a perfect love to him.

*** w89 1/15 p. 15 par. 25 What Prevents You From Getting Baptized? ***

25 If you are not yet baptized, ask yourself: What does God expect of those who say they love him? He wants exclusive devotion and is looking for those who will worship him “with spirit and truth.” (John 4:23,*24; Exodus 20:4,*5; Luke 4:8) The Ethiopian eunuch rendered that kind of worship, and he did not delay when afforded an opportunity to undergo baptism. Should you not make dedication to Jehovah a matter of earnest prayer right now and ask yourself: “What prevents me from getting baptized?”

[James]

*** w89 1/15 p. 15 par. 25 What Prevents You From Getting Baptized? ***

The Ethiopian eunuch rendered that kind of worship, and he did not delay when afforded an opportunity to undergo baptism.
... ask yourself: "What prevents me from getting baptized?"[/b]


Well, If JW's would stick to scriptural requirements and using the first century model, instead of heaping man-made prerequisites on candidates.
Then they might really boost the flock.

agape,
James

[SWORDOFJAH]

Not at all. Jw's do follow what it is stated.

“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”—Matt. 28:19, 20.

From Jesus’ words it is clearly seen who are qualified for baptism: “Make disciples .*.*. baptizing them.” (Matt. 28:19) Disciples are persons who are learners, persons who have information and form a judgment on the matter on which they are informed, which in this case is concerning Christ Jesus, his Heavenly Father, Jehovah God, God’s Word, His purposes and the relationship of such individuals to Jehovah through Jesus Christ.

[FutureMan]

Not at all. Jw's do follow what it is stated.

"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."—Matt. 28:19, 20.

From Jesus' words it is clearly seen who are qualified for baptism: "Make disciples . . . baptizing them." (Matt. 28:19) Disciples are persons who are learners, persons who have information and form a judgment on the matter on which they are informed, which in this case is concerning Christ Jesus, his Heavenly Father, Jehovah God, God's Word, His purposes and the relationship of such individuals to Jehovah through Jesus Christ.[/b]

Hello SWORDOFJAH, I,m inclined to agree with James on this as we really do need to get back to the first century model that the Christians had. And that was "The Way".

What was really "The Way"? The answer is in this one scripture which sums up what would identify True Christianity. (1 Corinthians 12:31, 13:4-13)

Without exercising this quality of Love, True Christianity would be invalid in our lives.

This is one Quality unfortunately many of Jehovah's witnesses, including me have yet to really put in practice. And yet we all need to learn the true meaning of the word Love, in it's true form.

If we really look at the pattern Jesus Christ set for us we will see this.

From FutureMan

[SWORDOFJAH]

And we cannot forget that Jesus show us the way we should worship his father,Jehovah. Now concerning baptism it is biblical that before baptism one should aquire knowledge.

[FGM]

When the Ethiopian eunuch asked the question
"what prevents me from being baptized" this was the result of his study
of the then known scriptures. How long had he been looking into the
scriptures. Long enough to have appreciation for what he was reading. Jehovah's spirit then moved Philip to witness to him about Jesus.

Acts 8 :36/37
35.Philip opened his mouth and, starting with this Scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus. 36 Now as they were going over the road, they came to a certain body of water, and the eunuch said: "Look! A body of water; what prevents me from getting baptized?"

Now how long was Philip talking with him? There is no information between verses 35 and 36. Was it just a few minutes or was it for many hours. Whatever we can see that the eunuch was given knowledge to expand on what he already knew. We can imagine he asked a lot of questions and in the end saw how Jesus fitted in to the picture. Then he wanted to follow Jesus example and get baptized. Maybe he knew that Philip had to leave soon. Verse 39 says "When they had come up out of the water, Jehovah's spirit quickly led Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him anymore, for he kept going on his way rejoicing"

So the eunuch was no doubt concerned that if he did not get baptized at that time the next opportunity may be a long way off. However his decision to get baptized was not just an emotional reaction to what he heard. He took in knowledge and then wanted to act on that knowledge.
How much knowledge a person had to take in depends on the person. But to get baptized it seems necessary to know WHY and for what purpose. What follows baptism? What does it mean for a person?
How should it impact their life?
These are things that must be considered before a person gets baptized.
However such a decision should be made as it is what Jesus wants us to do.

[FutureMan]

When the Ethiopian eunuch asked the question
"what prevents me from being baptized" this was the result of his study
of the then known scriptures. How long had he been looking into the
scriptures. Long enough to have appreciation for what he was reading. Jehovah's spirit then moved Philip to witness to him about Jesus.

Acts 8 :36/37
35.Philip opened his mouth and, starting with this Scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus. 36 Now as they were going over the road, they came to a certain body of water, and the eunuch said: "Look! A body of water; what prevents me from getting baptized?"

Now how long was Philip talking with him? There is no information between verses 35 and 36. Was it just a few minutes or was it for many hours. Whatever we can see that the eunuch was given knowledge to expand on what he already knew. We can imagine he asked a lot of questions and in the end saw how Jesus fitted in to the picture. Then he wanted to follow Jesus example and get baptized. Maybe he knew that Philip had to leave soon. Verse 39 says "When they had come up out of the water, Jehovah's spirit quickly led Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him anymore, for he kept going on his way rejoicing"

So the eunuch was no doubt concerned that if he did not get baptized at that time the next opportunity may be a long way off. However his decision to get baptized was not just an emotional reaction to what he heard. He took in knowledge and then wanted to act on that knowledge.
How much knowledge a person had to take in depends on the person. But to get baptized it seems necessary to know WHY and for what purpose. What follows baptism? What does it mean for a person?
How should it impact their life?
These are things that must be considered before a person gets baptized.
However such a decision should be made as it is what Jesus wants us to do.[/b]

Hello FGM, as far as I'm concerned this scripture sums it up, of what knowledge is required for baptism. (John 17:3). that is this basic Knowledge, repentance, reform and dedication just before baptism. But one thing that is very clear is that a person must come to appreciate the value of Christ's sacrifice before he or she even considers baptism. To be baptised does not mean that you are a Christian but rather that you now put yourself in the position to be saved and you are on the road to being a follower of Christ.

From FutureMan

[bimp5]

Thanks to all who replied. I would love to read more comments or examples. This is how I feel. I feel like it's going to take me forever to get to a point where I feel I am ready or worthy to be baptized. Is that normal? I know and believe in Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ. I was told by a brother once that if you wait untill everything is perfect to get baptized you will never get batptized in this lifetime because Satan will continue to put up roadblocks making you continue to think the same way. And when I think about it it is true! :P

[Jinnvisible]

When the Ethiopian eunuch asked the question

"what prevents me from being baptized"

this was the result of his study
of the then known scriptures. How long had he been looking into the
scriptures. Long enough to have appreciation for what he was reading. Jehovah's spirit then moved Philip to witness to him about Jesus.[/b]


<span style="font-family:Garamond">When the Ethiopian asked `what prevents me from being baptised` if it had been a Jinnvisibly minded person running by the chariot they would have shouted because you are driving at 30 mph you idiot, and are going to give me a heart attack,,, prevents you.

If the Ethiopian proselyte new the scriptures to a fairly reasonable degree then he perhaps also knew what the Jews were like with their terrible pride at that time.

Thus it seems likely to me that this African man was able to see Phillip&#39;s (a Jew) humility. As Phillip ran and proved his humility he then was more disposed to accepting Phillips answer.

[FutureMan]

This question is to those who have been baptized or have made the decision to be baptized. Before you were baptized how did you feel about getting baptized (If that makes any sense). What I&#39;m trying to find out is did you feel like you weren&#39;t worthy to be baptized or that everything had to be perfect in your life before you made the dedication to Jehovah? Did you feel like you had too many problems in your life that needed fixing before you got baptized? style_emoticons/default/sad2.gif

Those who are not baptized please feel free to answer or share experiences or comments as well. style_emoticons/default/wink.gif
[/b]

Dear Bimp5, and hello from FutureMan. To answer your question, I have been baptized for over 30 years now. But I do remember feeling also at the time that I was not ready for baptism as being a young teenager I was plagued by a habit that I sure most young teenagers especially young males would identify with. So my conscience was bothering me even as I said my baptismal vows. I did feel however after my baptism that I was not in a very favorable condition before God. And for about a year I was inactive as far as the preaching work was concerned. But I still kept going to the meetings. This could have been my conscience getting to me or as a result of my depression which was plaguing me at that time. I did finally however get back into the ministry and a little while after even signed up as an auxillary. And felt blessed for my effort because of this even tho to some extent I still had the problem. My feeling is this that you should go with your conscience and get baptized when you feel that you are ready. Jehovah God understand our circumstances even if those around us don&#39;t. My personal understanding is that even tho Baptism puts us into a situation to be approved by God for salvation, it is not actually baptism that will give us salvation. But our Faith in the loving provision that our loving heavenly father has provided along with his son&#39;s willingness to offer himself up as a sacrifice on our behalf. Of course as you know faith without works is dead. So we need to be sincerely trying to overcome our problems so that we can come to the situation of getting baptized. There is an example that you might have heard of of one of our sister who was confined to an iron lung so that she could keep on living. She was in this situation before she got baptized. You can work out the rest. Of course she would not be able to be baptized as long as she was in this situation. If God&#39;s day came while she was in this situation would Jesus refuse her salvation because she was not in a baptized condition. I think not. God&#39;s mercy and love is much greater than this. There are many other situations I&#39;m sure where people&#39;s problems might prevent them from getting baptized I&#39;m sure. My advice is this, that we should not let anyone coerce us into baptism until you feel good and ready and also when you feel that you have an appreciation of Christ&#39;s ransom sacrifice, this is very important.
From FutureMan

[bimp5]

Dear Bimp5, and hello from FutureMan. To answer your question, I have been baptized for over 30 years now. But I do remember feeling also at the time that I was not ready for baptism as being a young teenager I was plagued by a habit that I sure most young teenagers especially young males would identify with. So my conscience was bothering me even as I said my baptismal vows. I did feel however after my baptism that I was not in a very favorable condition before God. And for about a year I was inactive as far as the preaching work was concerned. But I still kept going to the meetings. This could have been my conscience getting to me or as a result of my depression which was plaguing me at that time. I did finally however get back into the ministry and a little while after even signed up as an auxillary. And felt blessed for my effort because of this even tho to some extent I still had the problem. My feeling is this that you should go with your conscience and get baptized when you feel that you are ready. Jehovah God understand our circumstances even if those around us don&#39;t. My personal understanding is that even tho Baptism puts us into a situation to be approved by God for salvation, it is not actually baptism that will give us salvation. But our Faith in the loving provision that our loving heavenly father has provided along with his son&#39;s willingness to offer himself up as a sacrifice on our behalf. Of course as you know faith without works is dead. So we need to be sincerely trying to overcome our problems so that we can come to the situation of getting baptized. There is an example that you might have heard of of one of our sister who was confined to an iron lung so that she could keep on living. She was in this situation before she got baptized. You can work out the rest. Of course she would not be able to be baptized as long as she was in this situation. If God&#39;s day came while she was in this situation would Jesus refuse her salvation because she was not in a baptized condition. I think not. God&#39;s mercy and love is much greater than this. There are many other situations I&#39;m sure where people&#39;s problems might prevent them from getting baptized I&#39;m sure. My advice is this, that we should not let anyone coerce us into baptism until you feel good and ready and also when you feel that you have an appreciation of Christ&#39;s ransom sacrifice, this is very important.
From FutureMan[/b]

Thank You for the encouraging words of experience. I really appreciate it and will certainly take this into consideration. :D

[Jahsdisciple]

One of the hardest things from people Ive met who have not been a JW most their lives is SELF forgiveness. They feel guilty over their past and cant let go,or it takes ages before they can let go.

The question is: If He is WILLING to forgive us,then we should also. If He says He has literally wiped them out,then this is telling us that we also should see His reasons and willingness and forgive ourselves as He ALREADY has.

People have been murders and committed all manner of moral crimes,yet Jah has forgiven them. The guilt we have is a sign that the beautiful person inside is sorry for what happened. When we knew better,we did better...just like those murders in the 1st century that Paul mentioned changed when they knew better.

Baptism is a symbol of Jahs WASHING away those sins through Jesus. He died so we wouldnt have to die for our moral or other sins. If Jah and Jesus went to so much trouble,then we have to ALLOW ourselves the generous gift they gave and accept what forgiveness means...to let go of our ignorant past and see why we did it. We didnt do it to offend Jah,we did it because of other reasons.

Forgivenes allows us to see why we did it. We were ignorant...and thats why Jahs says:while you were yet sinners,Christ died for you." He knew when we knew better,we would do better. And He had supreme confidence that many,once they new,would love Jah in return for what He gave us.

Example: If someone gives us a gift,do we accept it because its a reflection of their love for us,or do we reject it because we dont agree that the person loving us is doing so for good reason ?

They give it because we are worthy of it.

Part of that gift is knowing we should let go of the past. Jah knows we NEED to let go it because it will haunt us if we dont. It will only remind us of what we WERE,not what we are NOW. We cant live in the past if Jah has let go of it. This is part of the gift He has give us. The GIFT of letting go.

Its our value that IMPELLED him to give it to us,even if we are not fully convinced we deserve it. BUT,if the GOD of the universe is giving us something as a token of His love,then there is good reason why He does...and that means its time to let go as He has..accept the gift He went to so much trouble to give us !!

[imjustaskin]

JD, that is a beautiful way to express it. You brought tears to my eyes.

Bimp, JD is right. It took some of us YEARS to figure that out, don&#39;t let it take you that long. I was baptized at 16 and like you, never felt "good enough". It is NOT ABOUT THAT. Don&#39;t let your own self condemnation keep you from accepting Jehovah&#39;s love.

[elihu]

"i indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than i whose sandals i am not worthy to carry, he will baptize you with the holy spirit and fire"
matt3:11

has anyone here ever witnesessed the second type of baptism?

elihu

[panda]

I just new I had to be baptised was natural for me, however I was scared I could not live up to it, as I found it very difficult to get a balance, it seemed I couldn&#39;t do enough, and others were just so much more righteous, and some were horrible, I never felt like I fitted in with the average JW.

[Eyes & Ears]

One of the hardest things from people Ive met who have not been a JW most their lives is SELF forgiveness. They feel guilty over their past and cant let go,or it takes ages before they can let go.

The question is: If He is WILLING to forgive us,then we should also. If He says He has literally wiped them out,then this is telling us that we also should see His reasons and willingness and forgive ourselves as He ALREADY has.

People have been murders and committed all manner of moral crimes,yet Jah has forgiven them. The guilt we have is a sign that the beautiful person inside is sorry for what happened. When we knew better,we did better...just like those murders in the 1st century that Paul mentioned changed when they knew better.

Baptism is a symbol of Jahs WASHING away those sins through Jesus. He died so we wouldnt have to die for our moral or other sins. If Jah and Jesus went to so much trouble,then we have to ALLOW ourselves the generous gift they gave and accept what forgiveness means...to let go of our ignorant past and see why we did it. We didnt do it to offend Jah,we did it because of other reasons.

Forgivenes allows us to see why we did it. We were ignorant...and thats why Jahs says:while you were yet sinners,Christ died for you." He knew when we knew better,we would do better. And He had supreme confidence that many,once they new,would love Jah in return for what He gave us.

Example: If someone gives us a gift,do we accept it because its a reflection of their love for us,or do we reject it because we dont agree that the person loving us is doing so for good reason ?

They give it because we are worthy of it.

Part of that gift is knowing we should let go of the past. Jah knows we NEED to let go it because it will haunt us if we dont. It will only remind us of what we WERE,not what we are NOW. We cant live in the past if Jah has let go of it. This is part of the gift He has give us. The GIFT of letting go.

Its our value that IMPELLED him to give it to us,even if we are not fully convinced we deserve it. BUT,if the GOD of the universe is giving us something as a token of His love,then there is good reason why He does...and that means its time to let go as He has..accept the gift He went to so much trouble to give us !![/b]


ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL JD AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I SURE NEEDED TO

BE REMINDED OF ALL YOU EXPRESSED.

E & E

[Jahsdisciple]

JD, that is a beautiful way to express it. You brought tears to my eyes.

Bimp, JD is right. It took some of us YEARS to figure that out, don&#39;t let it take you that long. I was baptized at 16 and like you, never felt "good enough". It is NOT ABOUT THAT. Don&#39;t let your own self condemnation keep you from accepting Jehovah&#39;s love.[/b]

Hi IJA.
Glad you understood it. Its what had helped me also. Took a lot of years to see this though.
Agape&#39;

[Jahsdisciple]

<div class='quotemain'>One of the hardest things from people Ive met who have not been a JW most their lives is SELF forgiveness. They feel guilty over their past and cant let go,or it takes ages before they can let go.

The question is: If He is WILLING to forgive us,then we should also. If He says He has literally wiped them out,then this is telling us that we also should see His reasons and willingness and forgive ourselves as He ALREADY has.

People have been murders and committed all manner of moral crimes,yet Jah has forgiven them. The guilt we have is a sign that the beautiful person inside is sorry for what happened. When we knew better,we did better...just like those murders in the 1st century that Paul mentioned changed when they knew better.

Baptism is a symbol of Jahs WASHING away those sins through Jesus. He died so we wouldnt have to die for our moral or other sins. If Jah and Jesus went to so much trouble,then we have to ALLOW ourselves the generous gift they gave and accept what forgiveness means...to let go of our ignorant past and see why we did it. We didnt do it to offend Jah,we did it because of other reasons.

Forgivenes allows us to see why we did it. We were ignorant...and thats why Jahs says:while you were yet sinners,Christ died for you." He knew when we knew better,we would do better. And He had supreme confidence that many,once they new,would love Jah in return for what He gave us.

Example: If someone gives us a gift,do we accept it because its a reflection of their love for us,or do we reject it because we dont agree that the person loving us is doing so for good reason ?

They give it because we are worthy of it.

Part of that gift is knowing we should let go of the past. Jah knows we NEED to let go it because it will haunt us if we dont. It will only remind us of what we WERE,not what we are NOW. We cant live in the past if Jah has let go of it. This is part of the gift He has give us. The GIFT of letting go.

Its our value that IMPELLED him to give it to us,even if we are not fully convinced we deserve it. BUT,if the GOD of the universe is giving us something as a token of His love,then there is good reason why He does...and that means its time to let go as He has..accept the gift He went to so much trouble to give us !![/b]


ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL JD AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I SURE NEEDED TO

BE REMINDED OF ALL YOU EXPRESSED.

E & E
[/b][/quote]

Your very welcome Sis !!
Agape&#39;

[Hester]

hello bimp,
I was baptized at the age of 12 and for me that was far too young. The most important thing in my opinion is to learn as much as you can, have a full understanding of what and how you believe, and if you have questions or doubts about anything at all, just keep searching and keep learning. Don&#39;t be afraid to compare your beliefs with others; don&#39;t be afraid of critics, because truth stands up to criticism and you need a basic understanding of alternate viewpoints if you are to be prepared to defend your faith.
Don&#39;t ever feel unworthy. Remember the difference between "guilt" and "shame". If you don&#39;t like the outcome of something you have DONE, then remorse serves the healthy purpose of the incentive to change a negative behavior that produces negative feelings. (That does not mean you should marinate in guilt, because that defeats the purpose of responding to remorse with positive change.) But the feeling of shame is more than being dissatisfied with your actions, it&#39;s having an illogical suspicion that there is something inherently wrong with YOU. (I feel this way myself sometimes, but work through the low self-worth issues) Shame is feeling that you&#39;re never "enough", whether it&#39;s good enough, smart enough, righteous enough, etc. Sometimes reading the "exhortations" from the society to always do more that we already are in service, study, meetings, etc, we can take it too far and feel like we are not "enough". Just stay balanced, don&#39;t buy into pressure from anyone else. and CERTAINLY don&#39;t feel inferior for questioning things! That&#39;s human nature, we are meaning-seeking, answer-seeking creatures.
I don&#39;t think baptism is anything that is neccessary to rush into. In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference if it is this year or the next or the next, right? Just do what feels right, continue your journey of taking in knowledge, go with the flow and don&#39;t struggle. Have confidence in yourself that you will know exactly what will be the right thing to do at the right time in your life&#39;s journey. You can think for yourself and make your own decision based on your own inner-knowingness.

[steff]

Welcome to DB Hester!!

:)

steff




hello bimp,
I was baptized at the age of 12 and for me that was far too young. The most important thing in my opinion is to learn as much as you can, have a full understanding of what and how you believe, and if you have questions or doubts about anything at all, just keep searching and keep learning. Don&#39;t be afraid to compare your beliefs with others; don&#39;t be afraid of critics, because truth stands up to criticism and you need a basic understanding of alternate viewpoints if you are to be prepared to defend your faith.
Don&#39;t ever feel unworthy. Remember the difference between "guilt" and "shame". If you don&#39;t like the outcome of something you have DONE, then remorse serves the healthy purpose of the incentive to change a negative behavior that produces negative feelings. (That does not mean you should marinate in guilt, because that defeats the purpose of responding to remorse with positive change.) But the feeling of shame is more than being dissatisfied with your actions, it&#39;s having an illogical suspicion that there is something inherently wrong with YOU. (I feel this way myself sometimes, but work through the low self-worth issues) Shame is feeling that you&#39;re never "enough", whether it&#39;s good enough, smart enough, righteous enough, etc. Sometimes reading the "exhortations" from the society to always do more that we already are in service, study, meetings, etc, we can take it too far and feel like we are not "enough". Just stay balanced, don&#39;t buy into pressure from anyone else. and CERTAINLY don&#39;t feel inferior for questioning things! That&#39;s human nature, we are meaning-seeking, answer-seeking creatures.
I don&#39;t think baptism is anything that is neccessary to rush into. In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference if it is this year or the next or the next, right? Just do what feels right, continue your journey of taking in knowledge, go with the flow and don&#39;t struggle. Have confidence in yourself that you will know exactly what will be the right thing to do at the right time in your life&#39;s journey. You can think for yourself and make your own decision based on your own inner-knowingness.[/b]

[Jahsdisciple]

hello bimp,
I was baptized at the age of 12 and for me that was far too young. The most important thing in my opinion is to learn as much as you can, have a full understanding of what and how you believe, and if you have questions or doubts about anything at all, just keep searching and keep learning. Don&#39;t be afraid to compare your beliefs with others; don&#39;t be afraid of critics, because truth stands up to criticism and you need a basic understanding of alternate viewpoints if you are to be prepared to defend your faith.
Don&#39;t ever feel unworthy. Remember the difference between "guilt" and "shame". If you don&#39;t like the outcome of something you have DONE, then remorse serves the healthy purpose of the incentive to change a negative behavior that produces negative feelings. (That does not mean you should marinate in guilt, because that defeats the purpose of responding to remorse with positive change.) But the feeling of shame is more than being dissatisfied with your actions, it&#39;s having an illogical suspicion that there is something inherently wrong with YOU. (I feel this way myself sometimes, but work through the low self-worth issues) Shame is feeling that you&#39;re never "enough", whether it&#39;s good enough, smart enough, righteous enough, etc. Sometimes reading the "exhortations" from the society to always do more that we already are in service, study, meetings, etc, we can take it too far and feel like we are not "enough". Just stay balanced, don&#39;t buy into pressure from anyone else. and CERTAINLY don&#39;t feel inferior for questioning things! That&#39;s human nature, we are meaning-seeking, answer-seeking creatures.
I don&#39;t think baptism is anything that is neccessary to rush into. In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference if it is this year or the next or the next, right? Just do what feels right, continue your journey of taking in knowledge, go with the flow and don&#39;t struggle. Have confidence in yourself that you will know exactly what will be the right thing to do at the right time in your life&#39;s journey. You can think for yourself and make your own decision based on your own inner-knowingness.[/b]

Hi Hester,
Some good points ! Continued guilt is a sign we havnt forgiven ourselves as Jah has...and it shows we havnt seen the reasons why we did it. If we forgive ourselves,then we stop living in the "moment of sin" and live where we are,knowing what we do about Jahs reasons for loving us.

Jah forgives us because He loves us,so when we love ourselves and have empathy for who we were in the past,we will also forgive ourselves which releases us from the things we did, because we did it in ignorance.

We presume the best of ourselves... as Jah has done by sending His son.

[Psalms371011]

Well here&#39;s what happened to me

Back in 2004 I became unbaptised preacher (been inactive since 2005) I also went on debate forums to debate false teachings like trinity, immortal soul and torture place called hell. I&#39;ve heard of pretty much everything the opposers have on the table, except for 2 things (found this site shortly after): Watchtowers relation with UN and the baptism issue. Back in 1 July 1955 at verse 15 they wrote

"A christian therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit. This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it".

The library in our congregation only goes back to 1957, so i can&#39;t confirm other then the printed page from the book "Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses: The Bible Report Out of the North" (very inventing wolf I give him that) But I found an article on 15 des 1966(Norwegian)

(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

the 2nd question got changed to "Gods spirit directed organisation" Since the mid 80s if I remember right.

What does this mean? I don&#39;t know, but it certainly have prevented me from getting baptised anytime soon. I&#39;ll see what future brings.

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[shikinah]

Im the same as psalms 371011,
If its a clear command to be baptised in the name of the father, son and holy spirit, why decide to change it to gods spirit directed organisation. Not even holy spirit directed..since ive seen the small changes i have found it more of an ordeal than to get baptised because its from the heart. How many hours,are you regular, you shouldnt have to qualify to dedicate yourself to god, its a personal decision.

Elizabeth

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[shikinah]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]


What you are saying is correct, but to get baptised in ignorance of what is known is understandable. But what i know now makes me feel that i wouldn&#39;t be able to answer yes to all of their questions. Then i would be lying to myself and Jehovah, I&#39;m going to pray about it that&#39;s all i can do at this moment in time.

[Oakscove]

This question is to those who have been baptized or have made the decision to be baptized. Before you were baptized how did you feel about getting baptized (If that makes any sense). What I&#39;m trying to find out is did you feel like you weren&#39;t worthy to be baptized or that everything had to be perfect in your life before you made the dedication to Jehovah? Did you feel like you had too many problems in your life that needed fixing before you got baptized? :sad2:

Those who are not baptized please feel free to answer or share experiences or comments as well. ;)[/b]


Hmmmmmm -thinking-........... ........ lol first let me start off by saying that i&#39;m not baptized, but i have felt that there was and still is something missing. it all began this last memorial april, 2009. my thinking was that what makes "those" people special enough to drink and eat of the blood and body.... all i got was that when your baptized you&#39;ll know if your one on the chosen 144,000...... - :icon_neutral: - and the thought too of what would make me so special that i&#39;d be privileged enough to have that knowledge that i was "one". i guess that i&#39;ll find out when i do get baptized..... that being said right now i do have this feeling that there is something more to why i&#39;m here, i would like to say that this feeling is something like what they have said..... but still i have to go through the motions and study and be a good little bible student :icon_neutral: to receive his holy spirit. i know that is not the way it should be said..... but that&#39;s the way i feel. i still am learning and asking questions.. and if need be rocking the boat too, but i have to know. things are not right in this world, and i see it everyday. it&#39;s almost like how neo felt in the matrix.. he knew something wasn&#39;t right, he just had to have a teacher to show him how to open his mind to do all the things that he could do... being shown the "truth" has opened my eyes and mind to the possibilities that are out there, it&#39;s just the wait that&#39;s the killer ...... waiting to have a reading, to have a study, to be baptized.... and so on..... i don&#39;t know if i answered your question bimp5 that&#39;s just how i feel right now...... weather being baptized brings you everlasting life on earth or the pass to stand by jesus i know that i will serve whoever is in charge faithfully.......

hoping that helped.....
Oakscove

[Psalms371011]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]

No I&#39;m not baptised yet, however regarding how other religions considers baptism is irrelevant as I don&#39;t believe in their doctrines. Even if I did baptise elsewhere, other JW will not consider me a JW and that&#39;s not what I wish either. What future brings I will not say.

[shikinah]

If i had a wish it would be a baptism similar to back in bible times, a special moment with a few gathered, not a huge arena and display. Just in a quiet river with a few songs on a guitar thanking Jesus and praising Jehovah. I don&#39;t want to share my personal moment with 30 others. Its something i&#39;ve waited for all my life and it should be a personal moment, not like when i was confirmed and holy communion by the catholic church.

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[Psalms371011]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]

Utuna

I&#39;m not sure if Watchtower is directed by god anymore. I believe they had done its purpose regarding gathering his last of 144,000 and giving the people accurate knowledge about God(John 17:3).

Regarding if it is or not the conclusion I got is that is wrong mixing the question with the organisation. This is why i referred to what they said 1 July 1955. Anyway I am not ready to baptise anyway, not since i figured about all this. That&#39;s why i stopped investigating because It&#39;s best to be ignorant.

"For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good and simple concerning evil" Rom 16:19, KJV

[shikinah]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]

I understand what you are saying and you make some valid points, believe me i hate being in this predicament, how am i ever to get baptised, when the ignorance i hear from racists and corrupt people in the organisation, make me speak my mind and i end up being called an apostate. What you have to realise is there are brothers and sisters i have known nearly all my life, and the hypocrisy hurts deep down in my heart, enough to bring me to tears, these people talk against black people like their degenerates, lie behind my back and then smile in your face. These are pioneers, when I&#39;m away from this association i grow spiritually. Sometimes i feel the holy spirit has abandoned the org as what i hear and see is starting to become disturbing. As i said i will have to pray about it, whats sad I&#39;m quite happy the way i am, and have learnt more on this site than in the 28 years of knowing the WTS.

[billy2]

I wonder if it is at all possible to request from the bible study teacher, elders in the congregation, or even the headquarters of the Org if a person can be baptized using the orignal statements - leaving out the added non biblical statements -

"Gods spirit directed organisation"

also if one can be baptized in a smaller congregation setting

I would have the same concerns if i was to be baptized today - especially now that i have seen an learned so much more about the bible and what goes on in the org
it would be a good thing if the leaders of the org had respect for a persons conscience in this and regards for a persons reasons - for wanting to have the most important decsion they make in their lives to be shared with their congregation only - as it has more meaning and is more intimate - to be taken into account

[Jahsdisciple]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]

Dear Utuna,
OOOooo you are a cheeky boy ! I would use an aussie expression,but its close to a swear word,then you would have something against me..LOL !

...and you keep using that expression "undeserved kindness" when you know i hate it just to incite me...I&#39;ll get you one day bro ! LOL !

[Jahsdisciple]

I wonder if it is at all possible to request from the bible study teacher, elders in the congregation, or even the headquarters of the Org if a person can be baptized using the orignal statements - leaving out the added non biblical statements -

"Gods spirit directed organisation"

also if one can be baptized in a smaller congregation setting

I would have the same concerns if i was to be baptized today - especially now that i have seen an learned so much more about the bible and what goes on in the org
it would be a good thing if the leaders of the org had respect for a persons conscience in this and regards for a persons reasons - for wanting to have the most important decsion they make in their lives to be shared with their congregation only - as it has more meaning and is more intimate - to be taken into account[/b]

Hi Billy,
That really urkes me also. We are dedicated to Jehovah and have that opportunity because of Jesus and it was directed through Holy Spirit...and thats ALL that Jehovah wanted to be recognised in our baptism.

We are dedicated to Jehovah,not an organisation !

[Jahsdisciple]

<div class='quotemain'>"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>
[/b]

No I&#39;m not baptised yet, however regarding how other religions considers baptism is irrelevant as I don&#39;t believe in their doctrines. Even if I did baptise elsewhere, other JW will not consider me a JW and that&#39;s not what I wish either. What future brings I will not say.
[/b][/quote]

Hi Psalms371011,
I feel for you !

Without answering to me,have you dedicated your life to Jehovah ?

It sounds like you have. If i was getting baptised today,I would go through it,but on my terms. I would go through all the questions,because it shows a basic understanding. BUT at the assembly,I would not answer to the question regarding the organisation. I doubt anyone would question you about it,but if they did, I would kindly remind them its none of their business...this is between me and Jehovah.

Jehovah understands your situation. Being only dedicated to Him and not the org is what matters. If we have made that dedication to HIM,then there has to be a way for this to be demonstrated through baptism.

Agape&#39;
Jahsdisciple.

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[FutureMan]

<div class='quotemain'>I wonder if it is at all possible to request from the bible study teacher, elders in the congregation, or even the headquarters of the Org if a person can be baptized using the orignal statements - leaving out the added non biblical statements -

"Gods spirit directed organisation"

also if one can be baptized in a smaller congregation setting

I would have the same concerns if i was to be baptized today - especially now that i have seen an learned so much more about the bible and what goes on in the org
it would be a good thing if the leaders of the org had respect for a persons conscience in this and regards for a persons reasons - for wanting to have the most important decsion they make in their lives to be shared with their congregation only - as it has more meaning and is more intimate - to be taken into account[/b]

Hi Billy,
That really urkes me also. We are dedicated to Jehovah and have that opportunity because of Jesus and it was directed through Holy Spirit...and thats ALL that Jehovah wanted to be recognised in our baptism.

We are dedicated to Jehovah,not an organisation !
[/b][/quote]

Hello Jahsdisciple and hello Billy, I&#39;m sorry if I seem contrary now but the whole issue of the organization including the association with an organization in the baptismal vows is to tie you to the organization and for legal purposes if you are cast out later, as you have nothing to say in your defense in a court of law, as you have committed yourself to an organization and it rules and policies.

It does not matter if you say yes or no or nothing at all to this question.

I&#39;m afraid as far as the organization is concerned, if you go ahead with this baptism before all onlookers based on both the vows given to you, it is a given.

Or in other words your baptism itself is a symbol to the brothers and sisters, that you accept both the vows that have been asked of you.

This is of course my opinion, and we all have to individually decide for ourselves, after all it is our own salvation that is at stake, is it not?

From FutureMan.

[Jahsdisciple]

Dear JD,

Thanks for your nice comment! You&#39;ve understood what I wanted to say, without myself questioning in any way the good reasons we all have to have doubts regarding the real legitimacy for the WT to represent God on earth.

As for the undes... :icon8: Oops! I nearly did it again! As for the @€#Dà ù*$%, there&#39;s only one thing I want to say to you, stiff sheddar! :D


----------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton[/b]

Dear Utuna,
this &#39;stiff cheddar&#39; that you speak of,is it from raw milk as it would be in France,or the dead and useless cheddar found in the rest of the world ??

If its from France,then this is a complement...so thankyou :ban_dance01: :P

[Utuna]

"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton</span>

[billy2]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>I wonder if it is at all possible to request from the bible study teacher, elders in the congregation, or even the headquarters of the Org if a person can be baptized using the orignal statements - leaving out the added non biblical statements -

"Gods spirit directed organisation"

also if one can be baptized in a smaller congregation setting

I would have the same concerns if i was to be baptized today - especially now that i have seen an learned so much more about the bible and what goes on in the org
it would be a good thing if the leaders of the org had respect for a persons conscience in this and regards for a persons reasons - for wanting to have the most important decsion they make in their lives to be shared with their congregation only - as it has more meaning and is more intimate - to be taken into account[/b]

Hi Billy,
That really urkes me also. We are dedicated to Jehovah and have that opportunity because of Jesus and it was directed through Holy Spirit...and thats ALL that Jehovah wanted to be recognised in our baptism.

We are dedicated to Jehovah,not an organisation !
[/b][/quote]

Hello Jahsdisciple and hello Billy, I&#39;m sorry if I seem contrary now but the whole issue of the organization including the association with an organization in the baptismal vows is to tie you to the organization and for legal purposes if you are cast out later, as you have nothing to say in your defense in a court of law, as you have committed yourself to an organization and it rules and policies.

It does not matter if you say yes or no or nothing at all to this question.

I&#39;m afraid as far as the organization is concerned, if you go ahead with this baptism before all onlookers based on both the vows given to you, it is a given.

Or in other words your baptism itself is a symbol to the brothers and sisters, that you accept both the vows that have been asked of you.

This is of course my opinion, and we all have to individually decide for ourselves, after all it is our own salvation that is at stake, is it not?

From FutureMan.



[/b][/quote]


I appreciate your straight down the line approach Futureman

The wt org is taking something that only belongs to Jehovah - thats "credit"

Moses did the same thing - taking credit for things that were Gods

[Jahsdisciple]

We are dedicated to Jehovah,not an organisation !
[/b]


It does not matter if you say yes or no or nothing at all to this question.

I'm afraid as far as the organization is concerned, if you go ahead with this baptism before all onlookers based on both the vows given to you, it is a given.

Or in other words your baptism itself is a symbol to the brothers and sisters, that you accept both the vows that have been asked of you.

[/QUOTE]

I think you are forgeting who else is there as a witness...and this is born out by what happened when Jesus got baptised. The Holy Spirit is there and Jehovah is watching. I also think that angels are there as well..not becuse we are of the annointed,but because its an important event.

Just because the org is the most visible to our eyes doesnt mean more important INVISIBLE beings are not there.

If i was thinking about being baptised,I would do it through JWs,but on the terms of what I know. What may appear to be something,in another way,its not. I dont see anything wrong with being baptised via JWs becuase Jah is using them. BUT that doesnt mean everything they do is 100% accurate..like adding the questions. This is not scriptual to do so.

Like the daniels 3 friends,we go as far as we can in following comands of an org Jah allows to be in existance,but only to a certain point..then we draw the line and say no further. I would happily go as far as I could in going as far as JWs are right in a baptismal situation,but after that I know Jah is the greatest witness at such an event and its because of HIM I would not answer those questions.

Knowing He is there and the angels also makes no never mind about what others think it represents..its between me and Him...and HE knows my reasons !!

[arimatthewdavies]

i was baptised in 1975 at divine victory asembly,i was afraid not to be baptised! i got baptised because i truley beleived 1975 might just be my last chance to do it with the armagedon expectation i felt like it was something i had to do, to be safe,iv got to be honest i wasent baptised because i loved jehovah but out of fear that i would be destroyed if i wasent,this qustion haunts my mind to this day would i have been baptised at all without the fear factor?today i remember my promise and i tough it out because i did promise jehovah and i have come to beleive that he is the one true god and i know he watches over me.

[Desert Blossom]

i was baptised in 1975 at divine victory asembly,i was afraid not to be baptised! i got baptised because i truley beleived 1975 might just be my last chance to do it with the armagedon expectation i felt like it was something i had to do, to be safe,iv got to be honest i wasent baptised because i loved jehovah but out of fear that i would be destroyed if i wasent,this qustion haunts my mind to this day would i have been baptised at all without the fear factor?today i remember my promise and i tough it out because i did promise jehovah and i have come to beleive that he is the one true god and i know he watches over me.

I have to admit, fear is what made me study with JW's and fear is what made me get baptized. Fear of losing my life and being destroyed at Armageddon. I didn't learn proper fear of Jehovah until years later, so I do feel like I got baptized for the wrong reasons, but that was because of the WT mentality that was motivating the org. at that time.

During the years following my baptism I didn't get in the WT groove and try to convert people the way I was converted, instead I tried to focus on the benefits of the kingdom and shied away from scaring people with Armageddon tactics. I even became leary of using literature with the householders when one woman banned me from returning to her home because Armageddon pictures in the WT had scared her kids. Mainly I used tract 15 and my Bible.

I don't think my baptism is meaningless, but if there's a new baptism offered when the two witnesses come on the scene, I sure won't turn it down. In fact, I would not be surprised if a new baptism was a requirement, considering how things turned out with the org.

[arimatthewdavies]

well the bible says the fear of the lord is the begining of wisdom, i wonder if in the end some of us will owe their life to scare tactics.ive got to admit that the worst objections in service that i get is you guys make false prophecys,it gives me a chance to teach them my sigh of joahna lesson[joahna said ninevah would be overthrown in 40 days] was he a false prophet?