Anybody Who Refuses To Worship The Wild Beast

[Kenneth]

I have started this thread it's a continuation from another one but I though it merited some deliberation.


Brother Nambo said: 'There are also those of us here who like to belive that at the last hour, anybody who refuses to worship the wild beast and except the mark of the wild beast might be saved by Jehovah even if they havnt buily up a lifetime of faith and goodworks, for if they dont give themselves in this way to Satan, maybe Jehovah can still claim them and to put them right in the New System.'[/b]

The book of Hebrew tells us "By faith Ra´hab the harlot did not perish with those who acted disobediently, because she received the spies in a peaceable way." Rahab had no real understanding of Jehovah up to this point other than reports that the Israelites had crossed the Red sea defeated pharaoh and had won several battles. But Rahab at some point must have recognized that Jehovah was with them and thus acted upon it. It saved her life. How many will recognise who Gods people are in the end. Zechariah tells us that "It will be in those days that ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will actually take hold of the skirt of a man who is a Jew, saying: "We will go with YOU people, for we have heard [that] God is with YOU people."'" No doubt this is applied to spiritual Israel but we can also use it more widely to apply to modern day JWs. Hosea 3:5 tells is that after Gods people have been disciplined they "will come back and certainly look for Jehovah their God, and for David their king; and they will certainly come quivering to Jehovah and to his goodness in the final part of the days." Are people going to join themselves to this group and as Nambo suggest: "Jehovah can still claim them and to put them right in the New System". Another example is on the night that Israel crossed the Red sea a "vast mixed company also went up with them, as well as flocks and herds, a very numerous stock of animals." Again these ones had no idea who Jehovah was but they must have recognised that God had been with them due to the plagues brought upon Egypt. It just seems that on several occasions that people have fastened themselves to Gods people just at the end of the eleventh hour. So who will make up the great crowd?


That means that doctrines really play no part in this requirement for salvation, but being able to identify the wild beast and its false prophet does.[/b]

I think it does matter as doctrine is fundamental to our understanding of Jehovah and Jesus. JWs are unique in this respect above other religions as though baptism we have made our choice to stand with our God Jehovah.

Our love for Jehovah is being tested now. It's easy to be part of Christendom as life its pretty much a case of self-governing, you can chose to believe what parts of the bible you are conformable with and disregarded the rest, even choose a set of morals to live by and run with it. These people may well have a love for God in their own way but it's not according to accurate knowledge. On the other hand the fundamental truths that JWs hold will get them through the tribulation "regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail". Our attitude towards Jehovah and doctrinal issues are vital, living up to and studying his word with true understating is what will help us to prevail in the end.

People of Christendom and other denominations show a zeal for God but lack understanding of his purposes yet devotes their lives to his service. During the tribulation they will have the option to "take hold of the skirt of a man who is a [spiritual] Jew" the choice will be theirs. For us it does matter as we have the opportunity now the please our heavenly father.

So who will make up the great crowd and does doctrine real matter if all we have to do is not get the mark of the beast?


Kenneth

[Molly]

Kenneth-

This is a good topic as JW's don't seem to think anyone can make it through the Great Tribulation except them. It will be interesting to see what everyone else's view is on this.

As for myself, the first thing that comes to mind is all the people that have had studies and recognise who Jehovah is and what his requirements are, but perhaps never did anything with regard to baptism. Maybe the light bulb will finally light up for them.

Another, is those who have children that were raised by JWs but the kids didn't want it at that time for various reasons. They may have an excellent comprehension of Jehovah' requirements but were led into the world for one reason or another. Perhaps they didn't really see the day as close upon us. When things finally do start to happen it just may wake them up.

A third group is unbelieving mates that may have read the material from time to time or perhaps even accompanied the believing mate to the KH on occassion. They know and understand, more or less, and could possibly have a change of heart when they see that the end is really upon us.

Those are just a few that already know about Jehovah that I could see taking hold of the skirt of the man who is a Jew.

This is a very interesting topic. It will be interesting to hear from others.

Molly

[Sketch]

I personally think that though JWs MAY make up a large part, they will certainly not be on the only ones... especially given some with double lives, and problems they refuse to acknowledge and get help for... plus the BILLION+ Chinese and Indians... who i feel would literally need a miracle from Jehovah to hear about him... maybe even the rocks themselves...

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

If the two witnesses of Revelation 11 only preach to JWs, why would the beast want to kill them?

It would seem that the two witnesses cause a global situation, whereby the beast feels compelled to destroy them for causing such a massive disturbance.

It might even be that the two witnesses include exposing the real goals and identity of the beast as part of their preaching, and this is why they must be killed.

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[Molly]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

If the two witnesses of Revelation 11 only preach to JWs, why would the beast want to kill them?

It would seem that the two witnesses cause a global situation, whereby the beast feels compelled to destroy them for causing such a massive disturbance.

It might even be that the two witnesses include exposing the real goals and identity of the beast as part of their preaching, and this is why they must be killed.

Love, :Love:

Steadfast[/b]

Hi Steadfast-

I wholeheartedly agree that it will be a global declaration! I just think that previous studies, children, and unbelieving mates should have a leg up on the rest of the world since they already have some knowledge of what Jehovah has in store for mankind. I certainly hope that others in the world will also listen and take heed to the call to get out of Babylon the Great.

That is an interesting point that you made about wanting to kill off those doing the preaching because it exposes their goals. Along with the beast's general hatred for Jehovah, that probably will enter into their determination to kill off those doing the preaching. Satan wants the worship of everyone. It will probably be a bitter potion for him to realize that a great crowd would prefer death to worshipping him.

Molly

[DoubtingThomas]

Along with knowledge of God and His purposes comes accountability. Many individuals of a sincere heart, have not yet had an opportunity to receive this accurate knowledge. Jehovah is such a just and merciful God, that we can be certain no human will be destroyed unless they are deserving of it. I am sure that all of us here agree with and believe that deep down in our hearts.The greatest part of the preaching work is to occur in the final days. That is where we come in - and many of us here are doing our share to warn others of the impending disaster(s) ahead. But I don't think we have even scratched the surface of the preaching work yet - and after the 8th Beast is resurrected in thje form of the UN and exerts his domination over manknd, and the Watchtower comes crumbling down, and the beast turns on the harlot, and the Two Witnesses of Revelation explain to all mankind and humanity the true meaning of what is happenning at that time - I believe that is when many more than we can even imagine will refuse to worship and receive the mark of the beast, and will turn to Jehovah at that time. So those of us who have an accurate knowledge of these things ARE certainly accountable to God for the knowledge we may have at this time. Time is precious in warning others and serving our God. But for many ... the moment of truth has not yet arrived. For the rest of us .. we have been blessed with this accurate knowledge from Jehovah at an hour earlier than many others shall received it. Let's not take it for granted and abuse the blessing we have received.

[Kenneth]

The way I see it is like this. The tribulation will last three and a half years. Let's say it starts in the October of this year for augments sake. Nation rises against nation; this may well happen before the October then the three and a half years in revelation officially starts. Now with the four horsemen of the apocalypse riding most of the major countries engaged in the warfare, the Far East is wiped out, with much of India, Pakistan, China and Russia no longer existing. Those who have died could be estimated at about 1.5 billion. A quarter of earth's population. Pestilence and earth quakes will slay several more millions. The financial markets have all but collapsed and all that's left is to create the 'New world Order' with its leading light, the eighth king.


Now with all admiring it in wonder and fear, it turns its attention on the Watchtower first and then Christendom, outlawing religion period. A period of turmoil follows. For countless the ring of truth will sound out as to who really were Gods people, how this manifested its self only time will tell. The two witnesses maybe involved. At this time there will be Rahabites who will throw there lot in with Gods people, maybe by providing them with food and protection. Then when the three and a half years have ended on Nisan 14 we will experience the second fulfilment of Joel prophecy and the out-pouring of Gods spirit on the anointed along with the good news being preached. This may last for a period of 40 day. At what point one receives the mark of the beast I don't know. The whole episode maybe reminiscent of the three Hebrew's on the planes of Dura, either they bow to the beast and get the mark or they stand firm with Christ bothers, this could happen right at the end. Once again there maybe Rahabite who help Christ brothers, and this group may picture the vast mixed company that left Egypt and crossed the red sea. Its all conjecture but it has to happen somehow and when it does it will be spectacular.

Kenneth

[Nambo]

Off the top of my head Kenneth, and under my pointy foil cap, I seem to envisage that the tribulations may come first, these being the things like World War 3 and pestulances like bird flu, with the intention of driving people into excepting the New World Order when it comes, thinking it offers "Peace and Security"?

I then invisage the New Worlds Order, or UN rule whatever people would rather call it, lasting for 42 months as during which time it IS the counterfiet kingdom and tries to get everyone to take the mark and destroy those who dont, namely the Holy ones, :-“It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.”

and

“Get up and measure the temple [sanctuary] of God and the altar and those worshiping in it. 2 (http://) But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary], cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 (http://) And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”

I envisage those who do not except the mark of the wild beast being kept in those Haliburton Concentration camps for 3 1/2 years with the option to give in and submit at any time, but he who endures to the end is the one that will be saved.
Now the Christians who fled Jeruslam for the mountains, didnt they have to endure 3 and a half years before the Romans finally came?
Those who could see how much better off the people where in Jerusalem as appossed to a cave, or a concentration camp, well some of them didnt endure till the end, they returned to jerusalem through lack of faith only to be destroyed by the Romans at the end of the 3 1/2 years.

Doubting Thomas, what you say I pretty much agree with.

Can those of you who are fed up with me Olrono and Lou, see that we are trying to warn, not just JWs, but the whole of the world, that the UN counterfiet kingdom cannot be trusted, it might look like paradise, but its a pack of lies and will lead to death.
We dont want people leaving the camps for the false promises of the wild beast, so we try and show that the wild beast is allready being false so to not ever put your trust in it.

[Berean]

I have a question. When you talk about the NWO, does that include every single country in the world? Because as it is now, I can see the US government easily converting to fascism, but there are other countries who would probably not cooperate with this NWO very quickly, let alone build concentration camps. Some countries that would take a lot of convincing would be some European countries, Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea... and then there are many African dictatorships, and of course thousands of island nations that can't all be controlled by a central government. How will all of these be assimilated?

[Kenneth]

The prophecies at Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 should put an end to any democracy or governmental authorities. If the Far, and Middle East are virtually wiped out due to nuclear war and Russia&#39;s on its knees that will leave Western nations in power and as they have the military strength and will no doubt gain the upper hand. A New World Order shouldn&#39;t be too much trouble for them to create after that as its all ready on their addenda. Of course all this is superstition. But we have to remember that for the prophecies to be fulfilled there will have to be some kind of world conflict that will have ramifications for all the nations including Africa. Under the current framework a New World Order is an impossibility. There has to be some kind of cataclysmic event that sparks it off. This many well come about when the USA launches a strike on Iran. There is no evidence that Iran are planning to construct nuclear weapons yet the black propaganda coming out of Washington seem to indicate a military strike is on the way and then Neo-cons can have their New World Order.</span> </span>

[Nambo]

I have a question. When you talk about the NWO, does that include every single country in the world? Because as it is now, I can see the US government easily converting to fascism, but there are other countries who would probably not cooperate with this NWO very quickly, let alone build concentration camps. Some countries that would take a lot of convincing would be some European countries, Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea... and then there are many African dictatorships, and of course thousands of island nations that can&#39;t all be controlled by a central government. How will all of these be assimilated?[/b]

A good point Berean, and as Kenneth said, there will doubtless be some great event that causes:-" These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast."and "and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 (http://) And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it;"


Heres something that may be a factor,
An early Rothchild once said something along the lines of, "Give me control over a Nations monetary system and I control that nation, it matters not what political system it has", something along the lines of whoever controls the money controls the country.

As you probably allready know, Rothchild owns and runs England vie tha Bank of England, Rockerfella achieved the same with the Federal Reserve.

Did you know that a summer or two ago, at the time of the London Tube bombings, there was a G8 sumit?
In this sumit it was decided to waive all the debts of Africa that it has been unable to pay for all these years, in excange for the release of the debt, Africa gave over control of its monetary system to the (Illuminati) World bankers.

Now I read that there where then only about 6 or 7 countries that where not under the control of the banking elite.

One of them was Afganistan, guess they got that now.
One of them was Iraq, guess they got that now.
Another is Iran
Another is Syria,
Another is North Korea.
Puts a whole new slant on 911 and the war on terror.

You can see my drift, once the bankers control every nations finatial affairs, they can get every nation to do whatever they want.

[Gabriel]

So what you guys are saying is that doctrinal truths aren&#39;t as important as not accepting "The Mark?" How does the way one live their life now and the choice they make during the GT play apart?

[Jeshurun]

So what you guys are saying is that doctrinal truths aren&#39;t as important as not accepting "The Mark?" How does the way one live their life now and the choice they make during the GT play apart?[/b]

It seems from the Revelation that it really does boil down to not accepting the mark. But there will be so much fear generated by their powerful signs and deceptions that those who have a solid spiritual foundation would be far more likely to be able to not only refuse the mark, but endure to the end. Jesus said that taking in knowledge of Jehovah was the key to everlasting life. My guess is that would mean accurate knowledge, the knowledge that Jehovah is separate and distinct with his own personality and wants us to love him as our father. It&#39;s hard for me to imagine how people who believe that Jesus is God can really have any kind of knowledge of Jehovah the Father.

Just look at all of us here. We never stop searching, seeking, asking, praying. I have a feeling that many of us here have been that way since the day we were born. That&#39;s how we ended up here. We would never accept any religion or any doctrine that didn&#39;t answer every question. And yet, in spite of the vastly superior knowledge that we&#39;ve acquired compared to the world at large, we still have to keep searching for the "deep things of God". This is our built in desire to love and serve our Creator, that most of the world seems to have had bred out of them somehow. What chance do these godless people have, let alone the ones who profess to be religious?

So I believe doctrine is vitally important, because if people haven&#39;t done enough research to find the true doctrine, it probably goes hand in hand that they have not discovered Jehovah.

Try reading a Bible that says LORD this and LORD that. There&#39;s just no way to draw close to God, to have a true personal relationship, at least I can&#39;t imagine it.

No matter what we face, if we have built up an unshakeable faith in Jehovah and his purpose, how can this NWO possibly convince us to to give in to them, when we KNOW in our hearts that their destruction is imminent, that their NWO is without a doubt going to fail and be utterly destroyed on Jehovah&#39;s glorious day? What will giving in buy us, a few years of serfdom?

I don&#39;t know about all of you, but I&#39;ve been a serf since I was 9 years old, enslaved to the dollar in order to survive. They have absolutely nothing to offer me, even if they offered me "elite" status. No thanks.

[Gabriel]

<div class='quotemain'>So what you guys are saying is that doctrinal truths aren&#39;t as important as not accepting "The Mark?" How does the way one live their life now and the choice they make during the GT play apart?[/b]

It seems from the Revelation that it really does boil down to not accepting the mark. But there will be so much fear generated by their powerful signs and deceptions that those who have a solid spiritual foundation would be far more likely to be able to not only refuse the mark, but endure to the end. Jesus said that taking in knowledge of Jehovah was the key to everlasting life. My guess is that would mean accurate knowledge, the knowledge that Jehovah is separate and distinct with his own personality and wants us to love him as our father. It&#39;s hard for me to imagine how people who believe that Jesus is God can really have any kind of knowledge of Jehovah the Father.

Just look at all of us here. We never stop searching, seeking, asking, praying. I have a feeling that many of us here have been that way since the day we were born. That&#39;s how we ended up here. We would never accept any religion or any doctrine that didn&#39;t answer every question. And yet, in spite of the vastly superior knowledge that we&#39;ve acquired compared to the world at large, we still have to keep searching for the "deep things of God". This is our built in desire to love and serve our Creator, that most of the world seems to have had bred out of them somehow. What chance do these godless people have, let alone the ones who profess to be religious?

So I believe doctrine is vitally important, because if people haven&#39;t done enough research to find the true doctrine, it probably goes hand in hand that they have not discovered Jehovah.

Try reading a Bible that says LORD this and LORD that. There&#39;s just no way to draw close to God, to have a true personal relationship, at least I can&#39;t imagine it.

No matter what we face, if we have built up an unshakeable faith in Jehovah and his purpose, how can this NWO possibly convince us to to give in to them, when we KNOW in our hearts that their destruction is imminent, that their NWO is without a doubt going to fail and be utterly destroyed on Jehovah&#39;s glorious day? What will giving in buy us, a few years of serfdom?

I don&#39;t know about all of you, but I&#39;ve been a serf since I was 9 years old, enslaved to the dollar in order to survive. They have absolutely nothing to offer me, even if they offered me "elite" status. No thanks.
[/b][/quote]

Jeshurun, in your responce I can just feel the love you have for our grand heavenly father Jehovah. your words were very eloquintly used. Ps. I dont wanna be a surf eiteher.

[DoubtingThomas]

Excellent topic Kenneth. So … just to recap what has been discussed in this thread so far, and along with what we know from our studies in the scriptures and the essays of Brother watchman, here is somewhat of a Timeline I have constructed of The Last Day&#39;s:



1. To begin The Last Days, Nations shall rise against nation, pestilence (like the bird flu mentioned by Nambo), famine, etc. These are the beginnings of the pangs of distress. The horsemen of the apocalypse don&#39;t start their ride at this point yet.

2. Then at some point during this tribulation Jesus is enthroned in the heavens, then arrives to inspect the House of God. He finds it lacking and begins His judgment by cleaning it out. The first assault on God&#39;s people by the King of the North (KON) starts at this time. The land of decoration is invaded. The Watchtower collapses as a worldly organization. True worshipers still exist individually though.

3. War breaks out in heaven and Satan is now ousted to the vicinity of the earth. This begins the death stroke of the 7^th head and starts the 3 ½ year period of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

4. During this same time period the US is "pushed" by the KON into starting WWIII. The KON will create a crisis of such proportion that the US will scrap it&#39;s own Constitution.

5. This starts the opening of the 6^th seal in Revelation. During the ensuing global chaos, nuclear war and collapse of the global economy, the 7^th World Power (Anglo-American dyad) receives a death stroke. All seems lost at this point.

6. The beast makes a recovery in the form of the UN and becomes the new KON. (The Anglo-American beast actually breathes life into this revived beast). Power is transferred to the UN&#39;s New World Order.

7. This 8^th and final King exerts it&#39;s rulership in the form of a totalitarian regime.

8. Jehovah repurchases his people at this time, and restore them. The two witnesses of Revelation are revived. There is a great outpouring of holy spirit. This report disturbs the Beast (KON) as was mentioned in the post by Steadfast, and begins a second assault on God&#39;s people. When the sons of God (Christ anointed brothers) are no longer on earth it will appear the last King has now defeated God.

9. All must now flee Babylon the Great for this harlot which has been riding the beast will now be destroyed by the beast. If you are still in BTG at this time, you will suffer the consequences.

10. At this point all must receive the 666 mark of the beast or die. All will be forced into making this decision to either worship the beast or God.

11. This starts the outbreak of the War of Armageddon.



Keep in mind that the 11^th horn of Daniel, The King of Fierce Countenance, the resurrected beast of Revelation, and the final King of North are all the same political entity = The United Nations.



I hope I have a correct understanding of the sequence of events as I outlined them above. My timeline is open for scrutiny, criticism and observations from the keen minds on this DB.


So who will make up the great crowd and does doctrine really matter? Well … it appears that Jeshuran is correct. Judgement is based on receiving or not receiving the mark of the beast. But it also goes without saying that living our lives based on doctrine from God&#39;s will help us avoid the mark of the beast. This is the point made by Littlevalue. At some point, that light bulb Molly spoke about will go off for many who have not been taking their spiritual lives very seriously up to this time in history. At that time they will take hold of the skirt of the man who is a spiritual Jew.

[Jeshurun]

Jeshurun, in your responce I can just feel the love you have for our grand heavenly father Jehovah. your words were very eloquintly used. Ps. I dont wanna be a surf eiteher.[/b]

Thanks for the encouragement, bro. I keep meaning to ask you as I think you said you have a twin brother. If I had a twin I think it would be great, but he better not be a clone of me, he would drive me nuts.

So where is he? Get him on here, he can be "Littlervalue"! Is he a believer?

Considering that there is now widespread knowledge of the elite&#39;s plans to inject RFID chips into people&#39;s right hand, in the dead space just above the knuckles of the index and middle fingers, it kinda fits into Revelation, doesn&#39;t it? Oh sometimes I just love reading that conspiracy stuff!

How do you think it will go over when I tell them: "It&#39;s not my body, it&#39;s not my hand, it belongs to Jehovah God, and he says if I let you put a chip in it, I&#39;m going into the same fiery pit as you are, unless you repent right now and pick up your torture stake, and my answer is &#39;no&#39;" ??

I believe the one in the forehead is for mind control and I have to do more research to see what they plan on doing with that.

Believe it or not I&#39;m going to admit that I&#39;ve overdosed on Illuminati stuff and I feel I&#39;ve learned enough of their evil and it&#39;s starting to twist my brain. But I do love the 911 stuff, because I believe they planned it and did it with every fiber of my soul, and it&#39;s just a foreglimpse of the future. I believe that they have mastered weather control and they can create psunamis if they want to. Yeah, tsunamis.

Jesus said there would be lots of earthquakes and "powerful signs". As far as I know he didn&#39;t necessarily say they&#39;d be coming from God, get my drift?

"The WHOLE world is lying in POWER of the wicked one".

Sounds like it needs to be RESCUED.

Agape
Lou

[Jeshurun]

OOPS, I forgot, if they have the mark they can&#39;t repent. That could get ugly.

[Sketch]

Jehovah is such a just and merciful God, that we can be certain no human will be destroyed unless they are deserving of it.[/b]

Eh, thats one thing I&#39;m trying to comes to terms with. As I understand it, If I screw up, my 16 month old daughter dies too... where is the justice in that? someone else paying for my mistake? otherwise there&#39;s going to be millions of orphaned babies after the GT... thats something I&#39;ve never really understood...

[Nambo]

Further points to consider mind, are that the Great Crowd had washed thier robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb so would think there is probable more than just refusing the mark of the beast to get through.


But also remember how little the evildoer next to Jesus had to do, "Please remember me when you get into your Kingdom"
His faith in Jesus and his desire in Jesus plan for mankind.

So, maybe Jehovahs Witnesses have been chosen to be cramed with so much knowledge then when we are in the camps for not worshipping the beast, all those others who are also in the camps, we will then be there with them and able to put in place the next stage of thier salvation which is, having refused to become owned by Satan, teaching them how to be owned by Jehovah, show them the price he purchased them for, ie The Blood of the Lamb, and get them to see why they would want to be slaves of Jehovah.

For I think, in the end, it will purely boil down to, who owns you?, Satan or Jehovah?

Everyone will be owned

2nd Peter points out that Baptism corresponds to getting on the ark, though you didnt need any special qualification for getting on the ark, just the faith in what Noah said Jehovah was about to do.

For thier might be other people who refuse to take the mark of the beast, Trinitarians and Muslims maybe?, what will happen to them if they still refuse the God of Abraham for thier Sun and Moon gods? or will the destruction of Babylon the Great cause them to see that thier doctrine of man religion was a lie?

[Nambo]

<div class='quotemain'>Jehovah is such a just and merciful God, that we can be certain no human will be destroyed unless they are deserving of it.[/b]

Eh, thats one thing I&#39;m trying to comes to terms with. As I understand it, If I screw up, my 16 month old daughter dies too... where is the justice in that? someone else paying for my mistake? otherwise there&#39;s going to be millions of orphaned babies after the GT... thats something I&#39;ve never really understood...
[/b][/quote]

Sketch, if there are millions of orphaned babies, I would hope the sort of people who are the meek who inherit the Earth would also be kind and loving enough to look after said babies.

As to wither they survive in the first place, whenever Iam unsure of something I imagine what I would do if I where Jehovah and then presume Jehovahs got a lot more Love Justice and mercy than I could ever hope for.

The only way for innocent babies not to survive must be from some sort of legal aspect such as we are all owned by Satan anyway from Adam and its only paying the price off with death or baptism that lets us get bought back by Jesus blood.

Maybe babies and toddlers who obviously have not made a conctious choice to chose to worship Satan will die at armaggedon, therefore paying off the price of Adamic sin, but are free to be bought by Jesus blood and ressurected?, I cannot see anything illegal about that, in which case, why bother to kill them in the first place?, maybe they will just be left alone like animals will and make thier choices in the cleansed world?

Whatever, Jehovah will have the most just senario worked out for them

[stayawake]

Quote
from sketch
Eh, thats one thing I&#39;m trying to comes to terms with. As I understand it, If I screw up, my 16 month old daughter dies too... Unquote


Hey Sketch
Now let us reason together for a minute. Say you would have a 16 mo. old child. Whos responsibility is she ?
YOUR her FATHER right ??
If you really love her and want her to have the life that Jah wants her to have
Then you would not screw up.and if one did they would see to it that they found favor with Jah while there was still time to repent
Lets not pass the buck.
And even if there would be a lot of orphans that survive, with out parents, it would show and prove just how selfish their parents were.
Now you take a child of understanding, that no doubt would be another story
but that puts us back to the parents.
What do they know about God, how did the parent mold this child, what was instilled in their hearts. ??
Its a big responsibiliy to raise a child, they are intrusted in our care
They are Jehovahs gift to YOU
Just how much does one care for this gift ?? One cannot expect to live for ones self after one has a child,
YOU OWE that child,
Think about it
love stayawake

[Sketch]

I understand that if I&#39;m driving my car and I run a light/stop sign, etc... and get into a car accident, then her life is on me.... but that doesn&#39;t mean the person who hit me WANTED to kill her or even hit me... that person didn&#39;t have time to react to my mistake, and given the chance, would NOT hit me... Jehovah DOES have time...

but the case for current oprphans is worse as Nambo pointed out... the 10s of thousands of AIDS orphans in Africa, Asia... I saw a stat yesterday that said over 40% of women in India have never even HEARD of AIDS...

I&#39;m sure Jehovah DOES have something worked out... thats just something that scares me...

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Nambo said "2nd Peter points out that Baptism corresponds to getting on the ark, though you didnt need any special qualification for getting on the ark, just the faith in what Noah said Jehovah was about to do"

Does the baptism received by brothers and sisters like myself really meet the requirements as laid down by Jesus at Matthew 28:19&20? The words he used are quite clear but not used by the WTS. I was not baptised "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". At the time of my dedication I certainly didn&#39;t comprehend what I was actually acceeding to, and I certainly reject any notion now that the WTS is Jehovah&#39;s spirit directed organisation. I think that leaves me having made a mental dedication to God, but not receiving a baptism which corresponds to the ark. Rather, I think what I do now, and in conjunction with the Sons of the Kingdom during and immediately after the tribulation will be more telling. Then of course, based on the knowledge I have acquired, I hope I will have the faith to reject the mark of the beast!

EF

[Molly]

Further points to consider mind, are that the Great Crowd had washed thier robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb so would think there is probable more than just refusing the mark of the beast to get through.


But also remember how little the evildoer next to Jesus had to do, "Please remember me when you get into your Kingdom"
His faith in Jesus and his desire in Jesus plan for mankind.

So, maybe Jehovahs Witnesses have been chosen to be cramed with so much knowledge then when we are in the camps for not worshipping the beast, all those others who are also in the camps, we will then be there with them and able to put in place the next stage of thier salvation which is, having refused to become owned by Satan, teaching them how to be owned by Jehovah, show them the price he purchased them for, ie The Blood of the Lamb, and get them to see why they would want to be slaves of Jehovah.

For I think, in the end, it will purely boil down to, who owns you?, Satan or Jehovah?

Everyone will be owned

2nd Peter points out that Baptism corresponds to getting on the ark, though you didnt need any special qualification for getting on the ark, just the faith in what Noah said Jehovah was about to do.

For thier might be other people who refuse to take the mark of the beast, Trinitarians and Muslims maybe?, what will happen to them if they still refuse the God of Abraham for thier Sun and Moon gods? or will the destruction of Babylon the Great cause them to see that thier doctrine of man religion was a lie?[/b]


Hi Nambo-

With regard to "washing their robes and making them white in the blood of the lamb," I believe that that is what we are doing right now. We are separating in our minds what is wheat from the weeds that have been sown by the WTS over the past, especially with regard to the 1914 date and the supposed authority of the FDS over all Christ&#39;s belongings. We have come to an understanding that all is not as they portray it, that there is no spiritual paradise, and they have caused much havoc amongst Jehovah&#39;s sheep. It is our sluffing off the misguided teachings to the exclusion of what the Bible actually says that is washing our robes and making them white. It also has to do with the sighing and groaning over the detestable things being done in the temple.

Most of JWs, on the other hand, do not know any of the wonderful information that we possess, starting with the UN-NGO affair and the incorrect 1914 teaching. They will have to learn about these before they can be considered to have washed their robes by removing the false teachings of the WTS. Some will refuse to do so or simply not understand, but others will value the new information and make the appropriate changes in their thinking and actions.

So, whether we are in camps or not, we will have a wonderful privelege of explaining to our brothers and sisters exacting how they came to be in error and how to fix the situation. All the great information that we learn here can only benefit us. I am so grateful to all who post here for all the insight that they have provided.

Molly

[Nambo]

Hi Nambo-

With regard to "washing their robes and making them white in the blood of the lamb," I believe that that is what we are doing right now. We are separating in our minds what is wheat from the weeds that have been sown by the WTS over the past, especially with regard to the 1914 date and the supposed authority of the FDS over all Christ&#39;s belongings. We have come to an understanding that all is not as they portray it, that there is no spiritual paradise, and they have caused much havoc amongst Jehovah&#39;s sheep. It is our sluffing off the misguided teachings to the exclusion of what the Bible actually says that is washing our robes and making them white. It also has to do with the sighing and groaning over the detestable things being done in the temple.

Most of JWs, on the other hand, do not know any of the wonderful information that we possess, starting with the UN-NGO affair and the incorrect 1914 teaching. They will have to learn about these before they can be considered to have washed their robes by removing the false teachings of the WTS. Some will refuse to do so or simply not understand, but others will value the new information and make the appropriate changes in their thinking and actions.

So, whether we are in camps or not, we will have a wonderful privelege of explaining to our brothers and sisters exacting how they came to be in error and how to fix the situation. All the great information that we learn here can only benefit us. I am so grateful to all who post here for all the insight that they have provided.

Molly[/b]

Hi Molly, whilst of course I agree with what you say, I do not however think washing our robes in the blood of the lamb refers to accurate knowledge but to cleansing from the sin that leads to death for in Isiah we read:-

"“Though the sins of YOU people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool."

We know Jesus is the sacrificial lamb that takes away the sin of the world, washing ourselves in his shed blood is what makes us clean from the sin we all carry and allows us to remain alive.

The knowledge you refer to is important to help people identify and find the Lamb of God and to encourage people to wash themselves clean in his blood.

[stayawake]

Hi Molly
If your name hadn&#39;t been on your post, i would have thought i had written it mtself, That exactly the way i see it all.

Nambo, there is knowledge and there is accurate knowledge. Paul had a zeal but it was not according to accurate knowledge. Isaih has Jah speaking to the nation of Isreal. That advice could also be given to anyone who left Jehovh.
Not returning to the WT but returning to Jehovah.
Remember that the man of Lawlessness is sitting in the Temple of God, with Jahs permission, so that those who do not LOVE the truth would believe the lie.
Every thing we have learned about 1914 and all the scriptures ,that were fullfilled since then , that we were taught was the truth is a LIE,
so now we have to unlearn and are being taught by Jehovah.. We here, have the real TRUTH , so we have made our robes white,
we will be given the grand opportunity to witness along with the eleventh hour workers shortly.
They will be told the TRUTH as we know it now . It will be very easy for them to accept if their hearts are responsive,AS Jehovh will be searching the Hearts. everthing we tell them ( the signs that jesus said to watch for ) will be takeing place right before their very eyes.
Not only that but Jehovahs spirit will be poured out.which will make nothing impossible.
Look at the day of Penticost, Thousands in one day accepted the fact that Jeus was truely the son of God, I am sure their will be no prblem in accepting his Father Jehovah.
May we make good use of the time remaining in building up our faith according Gods word. Thats the only thing that is going to see us thru. love stayawake

[Molly]

<div class='quotemain'>Hi Nambo-

With regard to "washing their robes and making them white in the blood of the lamb," I believe that that is what we are doing right now. We are separating in our minds what is wheat from the weeds that have been sown by the WTS over the past, especially with regard to the 1914 date and the supposed authority of the FDS over all Christ&#39;s belongings. We have come to an understanding that all is not as they portray it, that there is no spiritual paradise, and they have caused much havoc amongst Jehovah&#39;s sheep. It is our sluffing off the misguided teachings to the exclusion of what the Bible actually says that is washing our robes and making them white. It also has to do with the sighing and groaning over the detestable things being done in the temple.

Most of JWs, on the other hand, do not know any of the wonderful information that we possess, starting with the UN-NGO affair and the incorrect 1914 teaching. They will have to learn about these before they can be considered to have washed their robes by removing the false teachings of the WTS. Some will refuse to do so or simply not understand, but others will value the new information and make the appropriate changes in their thinking and actions.

So, whether we are in camps or not, we will have a wonderful privelege of explaining to our brothers and sisters exacting how they came to be in error and how to fix the situation. All the great information that we learn here can only benefit us. I am so grateful to all who post here for all the insight that they have provided.

Molly[/b]

Hi Molly, whilst of course I agree with what you say, I do not however think washing our robes in the blood of the lamb refers to accurate knowledge but to cleansing from the sin that leads to death for in Isiah we read:-

""Though the sins of YOU people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool."

We know Jesus is the sacrificial lamb that takes away the sin of the world, washing ourselves in his shed blood is what makes us clean from the sin we all carry and allows us to remain alive.

The knowledge you refer to is important to help people identify and find the Lamb of God and to encourage people to wash themselves clean in his blood.
[/b][/quote]


Nambo-

If you will please note, I didn&#39;t actually say that it was the taking in of knowledge that washed our robes clean, although that is obviously the starting point. I said "it was the sluffing off the misguided teachings to the exclusion of what the Bible actually says that is washing our robes and making them white." The removal of the false doctrines that the WTS has foisted upon us over the years along with repentance for the culpability of our participation in the UN-NGO affair that had to be removed and replaced by the pure sayings of Jehovah and only the pure sayings of Jehovah. That refinement is the cleansing that will washed our robes. It is for the corrupt practises and the maligning of Jehovah&#39;s name that Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses will be punished. Also, I indicated that the knowledge has to be accompanied by actions. Our action would show that we have faith in what the Bible says.

Molly

[Elihu]

i feel privelidged to be here at watchmans site with all of you.

we all know that we are heading for a time of unprecedented hardship on this earth, with a dictator in the form of an eighth king who will put under compulsion all inhabitants of the earth to recieve the mark of the beast.
however we also know that there will be a remnant of annointed who will preach the "eternal good news " to the entire inhabited earth

this is a time period when a battle takes place for the hearts and minds of each human being on the earth.
we will all have a decision to make, everyone alive,
to whom do we give our allegence?
to the eighth king or to Jehovah His Son and the annointed.

a great witnessing work will be undertaken by the remnant and a time of great persecution will exist for those who are loyal to Jehovah and support His SONS

the fall of babylon the great will spill millions onto the plain of decision.

what really amazes me is ourselves

we are here , how did we get here and more importantly why are we here?
a person in an earlier post talked about the knowledge and insight we have gained by being here and the responsibility that rests with that knowledge.
We are truth seekers and more importantly lovers of the truth,
as we all know Christ said
"you will know the truth and the truth will set you free"
we are free, freed by the truth, free to question ,discuss and explore the meaning of scripture.

Robert King has been outstandingly courageous to impart this knowledge in the face of being labeled an apostate by the WT

an apostate who speaks the truth!

i am excited and also afraid because Jehovah does not do things for no reason, and so we must be part of his work for these future events.
Let us stay close together and build our understanding and strengthen our faith in preperation for the battle of hearts and minds.

just my thoughts
Elihu

[olrono]

i feel privelidged to be here at watchmans site with all of you.

we all know that we are heading for a time of unprecedented hardship on this earth, with a dictator in the form of an eighth king who will put under compulsion all inhabitants of the earth to recieve the mark of the beast.
however we also know that there will be a remnant of annointed who will preach the "eternal good news " to the entire inhabited earth

this is a time period when a battle takes place for the hearts and minds of each human being on the earth.
we will all have a decision to make, everyone alive,
to whom do we give our allegence?
to the eighth king or to Jehovah His Son and the annointed.

a great witnessing work will be undertaken by the remnant and a time of great persecution will exist for those who are loyal to Jehovah and support His SONS

the fall of babylon the great will spill millions onto the plain of decision.

what really amazes me is ourselves

we are here , how did we get here and more importantly why are we here?
a person in an earlier post talked about the knowledge and insight we have gained by being here and the responsibility that rests with that knowledge.
We are truth seekers and more importantly lovers of the truth,
as we all know Christ said
"you will know the truth and the truth will set you free"
we are free, freed by the truth, free to question ,discuss and explore the meaning of scripture.

Robert King has been outstandingly courageous to impart this knowledge in the face of being labeled an apostate by the WT

an apostate who speaks the truth!

i am excited and also afraid because Jehovah does not do things for no reason, and so we must be part of his work for these future events.
Let us stay close together and build our understanding and strengthen our faith in preperation for the battle of hearts and minds.

just my thoughts
Elihu[/b]
This is exactly the way I see it too, imagine not going to the WT meetings for 15 years or more over the NGO affair, and just one day I said to my self, “I think I will see what the society is up too”? And bam! Here I am, I found Watchman’s site before anybody else’s site, and I have looked over the web since and never have I found anyone else talking about the UN, or the ramifications of NGO and the NWO.

Thank You, Ron

[Jeshurun]

Elihu, you&#39;re in the right place, both being here and in your heart.

Everyone has excellent input on this thread.

As far as salvation of the little children goes, I have not agreed with the Watchtower&#39;s rigid explanation of that. As far as I know Jehovah is capable of reading a person&#39;s heart at the moment of conception. In my mind there is just no way he will render anyone to Gehenna unless they have no hope of salvation. Jehovah is perfectly capable of seeing how that young one would have turned out if they were old enough to make a conscientious decision. And just the same, imagining that he would destroy one of his sheep just for being a minor with weak parents just doesn&#39;t make sense to me, unless he was modeled after them. My take on that was that Jehovah might be more lenient on those whose parents proved faithful.

Speaking of taking the mark, I was wondering if we shouldn&#39;t start discussing possible scenarios we might be facing. Let&#39;s say hypothetically that there is some kind of announcement that everyone should report to the hospital or local doctor to get this "mark" implanted. Supposing that they also announce that anyone who doesn&#39;t show up on the day called will be subject to arrest, at their own home? What then? Do we head for the hills? (On foot, I guess?) Or stay home like a sitting duck?

[Jeshurun]

This is exactly the way I see it too, imagine not going to the WT meetings for 15 years or more over the NGO affair, and just one day I said to my self, "I think I will see what the society is up too"? And bam! Here I am, I found Watchman&#39;s site before anybody else&#39;s site, and I have looked over the web since and never have I found anyone else talking about the UN, or the ramifications of NGO and the NWO. [/b]

Hi Ron

Actually I&#39;ve come across many websites that are attacking the Watchtower for the NGO and pedophile scandals. But those same sites are also calling the Watchtower "Babylon the Great", which is absurd, and that the King of the North is Osama bin Laden, which is almost as absurd. So I would say that Jehovah&#39;s spirit directed you the same as he did me, which is cut through the chase and don&#39;t waste any time, because we probably wouldn&#39;t be fooled by apostate stuff anyway, just the same as everyone else here, who know apostasy when they see it, and for what it really means, going against Jehovah. It&#39;s pretty evident that you can&#39;t twist one word out of Jehovah&#39;s mouth around here and get away with it.

[stayawake]

Hey, i am right in there,
we could not understand what we understand if it were not for Jehovah uniting us in one thought.We would not have found this site if not directed
I was going faithfully to the meetings for 43 years, not looking or questioning any thing until the NGO thing
The only other site i ever was on before this one was ebay
.Of course after finding this i checked out the other JW sites, but seen and knew with out a shadow of a doubt that this was where Jahs spirit is.
IMHO i feel we are being gathered to work along with the 11 th hour workers when the time comes, as their companions and supporters.
As for our being apostates, we are the only apostates that love Jehovah with our whole soul mind, and heart, so where did we go wrong ?
Thats not a question.
love stayawke

[Juan]

Considering that there is now widespread knowledge of the elite&#39;s plans to inject RFID chips into people&#39;s right hand, in the dead space just above the knuckles of the index and middle fingers, it kinda fits into Revelation, doesn&#39;t it? Oh sometimes I just love reading that conspiracy stuff![/b]

If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8. :icon_neutral:

Kenneth&#39;s mentioning of "the good news preached for 40 days" reminded me of Jonah. He proclaimed God&#39;s judgement to Nineveh for 40 days; and all the Ninevites repented.

This maybe indicative of how the great crowd will form; who before the preaching of the two witnesses during the tribulation "do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left" Jonah 4:11.

[olrono]

<div class='quotemain'>Considering that there is now widespread knowledge of the elite&#39;s plans to inject RFID chips into people&#39;s right hand, in the dead space just above the knuckles of the index and middle fingers, it kinda fits into Revelation, doesn&#39;t it? Oh sometimes I just love reading that conspiracy stuff![/b]

If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8. :icon_neutral:

Kenneth&#39;s mentioning of "the good news preached for 40 days" reminded me of Jonah. He proclaimed God&#39;s judgement to Nineveh for 40 days; and all the Ninevites repented.

This maybe indicative of how the great crowd will form; who before the preaching of the two witnesses during the tribulation "do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left" Jonah 4:11.
[/b][/quote]
Quote… “If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8.”



I didn’t get it? You mean before or after? Remember it also goes to your forhead!

[Jeshurun]

If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8. :icon_neutral:

Kenneth&#39;s mentioning of "the good news preached for 40 days" reminded me of Jonah. He proclaimed God&#39;s judgement to Nineveh for 40 days; and all the Ninevites repented.

This maybe indicative of how the great crowd will form; who before the preaching of the two witnesses during the tribulation "do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left" Jonah 4:11.[/b]

:lol:

Ok, I admit I had to look up Matt: 18:8

[DoubtingThomas]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Considering that there is now widespread knowledge of the elite&#39;s plans to inject RFID chips into people&#39;s right hand, in the dead space just above the knuckles of the index and middle fingers, it kinda fits into Revelation, doesn&#39;t it? Oh sometimes I just love reading that conspiracy stuff![/b]

If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8. :icon_neutral:

Kenneth&#39;s mentioning of "the good news preached for 40 days" reminded me of Jonah. He proclaimed God&#39;s judgement to Nineveh for 40 days; and all the Ninevites repented.

This maybe indicative of how the great crowd will form; who before the preaching of the two witnesses during the tribulation "do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left" Jonah 4:11.
[/b][/quote]
Quote… "If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8."



I didn&#39;t get it? You mean before or after? Remember it also goes to your forhead!


[/b][/quote]

The mark of the beast symbolic not literal!

[Jeshurun]

I didn&#39;t get it? You mean before or after? Remember it also goes to your forhead![/b]

Hopefully us serfs are only targeted for the hand. I&#39;ve read where the forehead is for those higher up on the pyramid of doom, who will be the subject of mind-control and will receive trigger signals to unleash their inner demons on mankind. So the one in the forehead could possibly be optional. We&#39;ll see, won&#39;t we?

[olrono]

<div class='quotemain'>I didn&#39;t get it? You mean before or after? Remember it also goes to your forhead![/b]

Hopefully us serfs are only targeted for the hand. I&#39;ve read where the forehead is for those higher up on the pyramid of doom, who will be the subject of mind-control and will receive trigger signals to unleash their inner demons on mankind. So the one in the forehead could possibly be optional. We&#39;ll see, won&#39;t we?
[/b][/quote]How about the ,"before or after after" part? cause after you take it, I don&#39;t think it will help to cut off your hand!?

[Jeshurun]

The mark of the beast symbolic not literal![/b]

DT, I agree, to an extent. Chopping off one&#39;s hand won&#39;t get rid of the mark, it was the decision that was made to take the mark in the first place. Let&#39;s remember that this will be a cashless society, and their goal is to be able to track everyone, and to deny life-sustaining necessities to anyone who refuses to worship them. I don&#39;t think it will be as simple as just reciting some type of "Pledge of Allegiance". These "elites" clearly intend to impose their will on everyone, and that includes branding the "serfs" just like cattle. Control freaks, that&#39;s what these oligarchs are, not very different from the Governing Body. And as far as just how ugly it will be, I think we ain&#39;t seen nuthin&#39; yet.

I don&#39;t think they will tie people down and put the mark on them forcefully, that won&#39;t satisfy them. They want SUBMISSION and FEAR. So yes it&#39;s all symbolic on both sides, but in my opinion, a physical mark will be at the center of the controversy. That&#39;s why I&#39;m afraid these people without accurate knowledge, who haven&#39;t studied the Revelation so intently so as to be 100 percent certain of the outcome, might be in danger of making a bad choice.

[Hot Pie]

This is a great discussion,

Thanks!

[eyes&ears]

All the responses were so wonderful. I have nothing to add that has not been expressed so beautifully.

I would like to say to DT, Molly and Stayawake I feel very deeply about what you all expessed:

"For the rest of us .. we have been blessed with this accurate knowledge from Jehovah at an hour earlier than many others shall received it. Let&#39;s not take it for granted and abuse the blessing we have received."

"May we make good use of the time remaining, building up our faith according to God&#39;s word. That the only thing that is going to see us through."

"we could not understand what we understand if it were not for Jehovah uniting us in one thought. We would not have found this site if not directed."


I will say that I sometimes think deep within myself that this may perhaps be a refining time for us also. What I mean by that is we have been blessed (imo) with this knowledge, we can either use it for good, or get stuck in our anger, shock and bitterness. I was almost stuck. I do not believe that Jehovah would use me in that negative bitter state that I was in.

I am so thankful that he answered my prayers and showed me how my attitude was disrupting/interferring with my spiritual growth. I believe with a little more work on myself with Jehovah&#39;s help, he may find a place for me in this new arrangement of things when he puts it into action. Not just a place for me, but for all of us. As was said, may we use this time now wisely, to stay in Jehovah&#39;s word and work on ourselves through prayer asking for Jehovah&#39;s direction to show us how we can give him our best.

I believe (imo) that this is a time for us to look deep inside ourselves to make sure we are presenting the best to Jehovah and that we will use this information he has allowed us to be privledged to, to honor and glorify him and his purposes.



Love out to you all. I have learned so much here. May Jehovah continue to help and direct us and keep us balanced and sound in mind and our thinking as we press on.

Thank you also Watchman and Mrs. for this place of refreshment.

HOLD ON TIGHT EVERYONE AND DON&#39;T EVEN THINK ABOUT LETTING GO NOW.

E & E

[Juan]

If that happens we may have to physically implement Matt 18:8. :icon_neutral:

Kenneth&#39;s mentioning of "the good news preached for 40 days" reminded me of Jonah. He proclaimed God&#39;s judgement to Nineveh for 40 days; and all the Ninevites repented.

This maybe indicative of how the great crowd will form; who before the preaching of the two witnesses during the tribulation "do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left" Jonah 4:11.[/b]

Maybe I should not have mentioned Matt 18:8, as it only seemed to have caused contention.



I think the more important point is that during the last worldwide preaching work the average JW maybe actually be at a disadvantage compared to a non-JW.

While the average JW is wondering why his "Ark of Salvation" (the society) is leaking, and why some of his leaders are being exposed as wicked slaves, the non-JW (who doesn&#39;t have these doctrinal baggage) have already repented and is well on his way to developing real faith in Jehovah and on Jesus ransom sacrifice.

[Jeshurun]

Maybe I should not have mentioned Matt 18:8, as it only seemed to have caused contention.[/b]

Personally, I found it hysterical :lol:

Nothing like a little levity amidst a disturbing conversation about microchips.

[Kenneth]

The number forty continually keeps reappearing in scripture and the events in the bible associated with the number have to do with a period, judgment or punishment.

"Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years as a punishment for their rebellious course"

"He well knows of your walking through this great wilderness. These forty years Jehovah your God has been with you. You have not lacked a thing"

"By the number of the days that YOU spied out the land, forty days, a day for a year, a day for a year, YOU will answer for YOUR errors forty years, as YOU must know what my being estranged means. (Num. 14:34)"

"And you must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you. And to the siege of Jerusalem you will fix your face, with your arm bared, and you must prophesy against it. And, look! I will put cords upon you that you may not turn yourself from your one side to your other side, until you will have completed the days of your siege."—Ezekiel 4:6-8.

" For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I have made off the surface of the ground" (Genesis 7:4)

"Finally Jo´nah started to enter into the city the walking distance of one day, and he kept proclaiming and saying: "Only forty days more, and Nin´e·veh will be overthrown" (Jonah 3:4)
(If I remember correctly I think Watchman wrote an essay on Jonah some years ago but it&#39;s no longer on the list.)


"Thus let all your enemies perish, O Jehovah,
And let your lovers be as when the sun goes forth in its mightiness."
And the land had no further disturbance for forty years "(Judges 5:31)

"To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered, being seen by them throughout forty days and telling the things about the kingdom of God" (Act 1: 3)

The theme of forty days in scripture appears to be reoccurring. However, there are two point of interest. One in the book of Jonah and the other at Acts 1:3. The book of Jonah is rarely used other than in the context are we fulfilling our commission to preach or like Jonah are we running in the opposite direction. The fact that Jonah preached for forty days and a whole city repented just before God was going to destroy it may have significance to the time of the end and the final preaching campaign by the angles. Rev 14:6, 7 tell us "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, saying in a loud voice: "FEAR God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters." It&#39;s interesting that the angle uses the term "hour of the judgment by him has arrived". Of course most believe that this hour started back in 1919, but is that reasonable. The "hour of the judgment" seems to denote a very short time, a time of swiftness and finality, possibly a period of forty days. We have to remember that it&#39;s the angles that are preaching the good news and even though there will be Tribulation there will also be Celestial Phenomena in the atmosphere. For the anointed and those associated with them this will be a time of great joy. Its seem reasonable that when the angle starts to preach the dividing of the &#39;sheep and goats&#39; haven&#39;t yet taken place otherwise what&#39;s the point of the preaching if most are going to die because they have allready being judged. The idea of one preaching is to tell of good news and bring about repentance. Thus the period of forty days must coincide with the time of Nineveh&#39;s repentance. Plus after the pouring out of Gods spirit a Pentecost Jesus appeared to the disciples for forty days and was lifted up to heaven and will return in the same manor. This period must be significant. If there is going to be a second fulfilment of the pouring out of Gods spirit as the book of Joel tells us them there&#39;s a likelihood of a visible manifestation of Christ&#39;s appearance during the forty day period. However, I not sure where the mark of the beast fits into this concept. Maybe you have some ideas?

Kenneth</span></span>

[stayawake]

Hi Ken,
I hope you don&#39;t mind my coming in here, what i mean is you had asked if there were any ideas, so i didn&#39;t know if you were speaking to a certain person or not.I don&#39;t mean to but in BUT......
Here are my thoughts, I am so glad you are hooked on the number 40, as i have had a thought toward that number also.for some time now
Remember when Jesus was raised from the dead, and appeared to a group of 500 and many others in the 40 days before his assention, to prove that he indeed was raised from the dead
well i was thinkinking why not the whole 144.000 being brought back for forty days and preaching that final message before they are all caught up together in the clouds to join their Bridegroom ??
That may be where the spirit comes in in revealing the true Sons of God.
This would all be done under the angelic direction of the angels flying in mi -heaven. mentioned in Rev.
Just a thought i wanted to share.
love stawake

[eyes&ears]

Speaking of the Mark of the Beast, this is just a side point and I&#39;m not even sure it should go here, but forgive me if it is in the wrong place OKEY DOKEY.

Today I had to go to the cardiologist at the Veterans&#39;s Administration Hospital (VA). My hubby is a Vietnam Vet so I use the women&#39;s health clinic, etc. etc.. that the Women Vet&#39;s and wives of Vets use.

Well today was utter Chaos. I arrived for my appt and the intake clerk says:

"You must sign in using that new machine over there by swiping in your new VA ID Card." "VA ID Card, I said, I do not have a VA ID Card, I have this, I showed her my medical card." "Nope, you have to go to registration and sign up for a new card."

Well I did not back down, and after parroting myself several times, she backed down and decided it would be best to let me go to my appointment first and then register afterwards for a VA Card. I was praying and HOLDING ON TIGHT I WAS NOT LEAVING AND MISSING MY APPT. FOOLING AROUND WITH THOSE CLERKS.

However, it did not go well for some others, it was a complete disaster, some people had their new cards and could get waited on and others had to go immediately to register for the new ID Cards.

Upon ariving to registration, that was another governmental exercise in absurdity. People were yelling all over the place, the new machines to register were going nuts and kept crashing so the people had to re-register. The customer service reps were totally stressed out, yelling and overwhelmed. Most vets are older and not computer literate and did not understand how to even type in their name or birthdate. The majority of the vets are men, and they were totaly frustrated with those computers.

I really believe they were frustrated because the clerks always typed in the information and now the responsibility is on the patient. I guess pretty soon those unprofessional clerks do not realize it, but their jobs could be at risk. Hope they are looking at the big picture here. Anyways.....

The majority of the vets are handicapped or have some type of mental issues.

One man verbally exploded and cursed everyone out, I thought he was going to hit someone. Another man in an electric wheelchair got so angry he whipped his chair around and sped through the hall way, it was frightening. Everyone was either angry, tired, overwhelmed or stressed or all of those thing together. Can you imagine.

Of course, my mind was in another place. I was thinking OMG is this any indication of how nuts things will be when this systems starts to crash, if we do not have certain cards or id&#39;s we will not get the services that are needed. Hmmmmmmm. (Mark of the Beast to buy, get any type of service including medical treatment)

As it turned out, SINCE I AM NOT A VET, I DO NOT NEED AN ID CARD, MY HUBBY IS THE VET. HE NEEDS THE CARD. I CAN JUST WALK IN. It was absolutely chaos. ONE MAN YELLED OUT THIS IS RIDICULOUS, CONTROLLED CHAOS. (that made no sense to me, but I guess he knew what he was talking about.) I know that he was right about the chaos, but it certainly was not controlled. It was a mess.

The man who told me I can just walk in said don&#39;t worry about it, I took care of it, and he did something in the computer and then dismissed me without a blink of an eye, HOLLERING "NEXT". SO PROFESSIONAL. :icon_eek: :boom06:

A lot of scriptures were floating through my mind today as I witnessed this.

In fact this was an abrupt change. Everyone was surprised. One man "says I thought this was not supposed to go into effect until March". THE OH SO POLITE CLERK SAYS, WELL WE CHANGED OUR MINDS IT STARTED TODAY. I WAS LIKE OOOOOO K.

So, all I can say is this certainly gave me food for thought. The government does what it wants to do when it wants to and the public just has to DEAL WITH IT hmmmmm.

Yes, things can change in an instant, LIKE THE STOCK MARKET DROPPING 415.78 it was stated on 6 p.m. news. THE WHYS WILL BE EXPLAINED AT 6:30 AFTER LOCAL NEWS. HMMMM TIME TO TURN TO CNN. MY RHETORIAL QUESTION IS, WITH ALL THE SUDDEN CHANGES THAT CAN HAPPEN
OVERNIGHT OR IN AN INSTANT ARE WE READY, ARE WE PREPARED FOR THESE THINGS SPIRITUALLY HMMMM? REMEMBER AT A TIME WE DO NOT THINK IT TO BE SO.

Not an alarmist, it&#39;s just that certain events that take place from time to time encourages me to really check on my spiritual readiness, regardless of whether this system ends during my lifetime or not.
I will always STAY ON THE WATCH. HOLD ON TIGHT OKEY DOKEY OKEY DOKEY.

Just thought I would share this experience.

Love out to you all.

E & E

[Dorcas]

Thought I might jump in and make a comment on the baggage each of us carries from the WTS...Jehovah has given us additional time to unlearn some of the interpretations, and prepare ourselves with accurate knowledge and teaching skills that we may be able to help those who may become fearful and flee when the WT falls. We have to be strong to help them and also for the tremendous teaching work when the dead are resurrected in our regenerated earth.
Love to all
Dorcas :MSN Vlinder:

[stayawake]

Dear e&e, Thank you so much for your excellent discription of your day at the VA center. You discribed it so well that i could really visualize it. I honestly feel that you were in the center of a plant.
This has been happening so often lately, that out of the blue a surpise change is thrown at the public.
What was to take place in March was sprung on you unexpectingly today.
This was to test submission, obedience, and to see how much chaos would accur. The NWO is laying its foundation IMHO>
You handled it great e&e, as long as no worship is required we are to be obedient,as far as our concience will allow.
These last minute ,unexpected changes are happeng ever so often.
The mark of the beast wont come into the picture until the demand to conform to the 8th Kings form of worship which will come into the picture later. What ever that will be, remains to be seen.
First the motion will be for our submission to Romans 13:
Believe me we will reconize it when faced with the issue of Whom do we belong, I figure right before Armagedden, in fact that will be all of mankinds final test.
By then the preaching work will have already begun, with us following and supporting the 11 th hour (annointed ) workers. The annointed preaching is what will cause their execution,
that will actuallyalso bring on Amegedden.
The scriptures decribe it as touching Jehovahs eyeball. Of course , this is how i see it all , there fore Ii speak just for myself
love stayawake


Dear Dorcus, so good to see you,
you are right ,this site has been a grand place to unlearn what we had learned from the WT teaching.
It/s not a easy task, but when one is able to replace a LIE with the Truth, then you know we have Jehovahs backing here. We are able to refute the LIE with GODS WORD> As God cannot Lie,
Thru watchmans sincere study and love of the scriptures and all his writtings,, and other enlightened ones on this board, the truth , HAS SET US FREE
We are wide awake here knowing just how chaotic conditions are goung to become , but we know this fact ,so wont be surprised at any thing that takes place.
Love

[eyes&ears]

Hi Stayawake and my family on board,

I have noticed subtle things happening also. One of the things that bothered me somewhat was the vaccination of HPV I think it is for young girls. They say it is for cervical cancer prevention. The way it has been done via government intervention disturbed me, especially locally when there was so much negativity surrounding the way it is to be put into place.

Perhaps some of these things have been going on for years, but because of learning and paying attention to scriptures and Jehovah&#39;s direction and learning what I have learned from association here, I pay more attention to what is happening around me. Some things are important and some are not, but I am learning to distinguish the difference with Jehovah&#39;s help.

Most people are going on just like in Noah&#39;s day, not paying any attention......

Love out to you all.

E & E

[stayawake]

Yes that shot for girls in Texas, is very upsetting, as its going to be a must in that state. This is another plant to see if state can take over.
Theres a book out about the chicken flu being a Hoax the spirit going out to the puplic in connection with the NWO is FEAR & obedience
I was thinking e&e that you were right there when it all happened yesterday.
Did you say the machines kept crashing.Did you mean computors ?? post 46
The reason i am asking is I was told by some one who understands the stock market. that when it starts falling they have things set up to slow it down,so it wouldnt crash, that it could have fallen 1500 points, that we will never hear of.
Well any way thought maybe your visit to the VA hospital yesterday ,and their machines crashing were when the goverment was slowing down everything.
another reason I was wondering was a email that takes only minutes to get to me from a friend 30 mile away, took several hours yesterday to come in..
The NWO has been in the making for centuries and is all set to go.
love stayawake

[Jeshurun]

The reason i am asking is I was told by some one who understands the stock market. that when it starts falling they have things set up to slow it down,so it wouldnt crash, that it could have fallen 1500 points, that we will never hear of.[/b]

Yeah, funny how the software crashed yesterday, right in the middle of a big slide, isn&#39;t it? And by the time they got the backup system running, the DOW was down 300. They still have to open up today, though. Hmmm.

[fruitage]

HI Jesh.....do you know anything about the paradise cafe being down?...its me flowerchild....I tried to get on this morn....had to go somewhere and just got home and its still down?

Sandi

[eyes&ears]

Yes Stayawake,

The computers were up and down. All that was coming across the screens was goobly gook letters that made no sense. It was the weirdest thing.

Like right now, my computer is crashing right in the middle of me typing to you.

What all this has shown me is to make sure I keep a certain amount of cash on hand in case things get really stupid. If someone is playing around with the systems, that certainly cannot be a good thing.

Too much stuff is going on, whether it means anything or not, I am taking precautions I know Jehovah does not want me to be an idiot and not pay attention. So I will do little things that may make a difference for now.

We know in the long run money is not going to help anyone do anything PERIOD, but for now it is wise to keep money, water, medications, and
non-perishables, etc. on hand as well as an emergency bag packed and ready to go, all cars full of gas.

Hey, I am just being cautious everyone, don&#39;t laugh at me OKEY DOKEY. I never ever let my gas tank get below half never ever.


Oh Yes, one more thing that has crossed my mind, all of us folks who depend on government checks ......................................fill in the blank of what that will mean in the future, VA, Social Security, any type of pension, hmmmm. Think you may have to smile at the beast to get that check hmmmmmm. :dontknow: Are we really relying on Jehovah hmmmmmmm. It is not going to be easy.

But we can do all things with Jehovah&#39;s help.

Phil 4:13

Love out to you all

Your sis E & E

[Nambo]

HI Jesh.....do you know anything about the paradise cafe being down?...its me flowerchild....I tried to get on this morn....had to go somewhere and just got home and its still down?

Sandi[/b]

Its you?, Flowerchild! Hi!

[fruitage]

Hi Nambo....I just now saw your post...how have you been....many changes have been happening within my life and belief system......I am finding peace and closure.....for awhile I was so very anxious and fearful...I hope you have been well.

your friend in Christ

SAndi

[Shibboleth]

A big ((HUG)) to you Fruitage.

[Juan]

HI Jesh.....do you know anything about the paradise cafe being down?...its me flowerchild....I tried to get on this morn....had to go somewhere and just got home and its still down?

Sandi[/b]

Hi Sandi.
I go on the PC everyday to read isomam&#39;s daily text. Always been able to get on it.

[sayjay3]

So what you guys are saying is that doctrinal truths aren&#39;t as important as not accepting "The Mark?" How does the way one live their life now and the choice they make during the GT play apart?[/b]

Luke 23:32 talks about two other men, evildoers, who were being led to execution with Jesus. Versus 39-43 talks about one of the evildoers speaking abusively to Jesus and the other one rebuking the one who spoke abusively. They were evil right up until the time they were put on the torture stake. One of them continued to be evil while the other one understood that Jesus was righteous and did not deserve to die while they on the other hand did. So he asked Jesus for forgiveness while the evil one did not ask. Although he was an evildoer and sentenced to death,Jesus forgave him and told him he would be in paradise with him. Obviously this man did not have a life filled with good works, but his eyes were opened and Jesus forgave him. I don&#39;t know but I think there are really decent people out there who are still blinded and may remain so until they see that things aren&#39;t happening like they always believed they would. I think these people will have the opportunity to choose Jehovah&#39;s kingdom even though they didn&#39;t know the truths like most of the Witnesses have their whole life. Some of those on the outside of the organization may even attain what some who have been in the truth their whole life will not be able to attain.
There are also friends and loved ones who may understand whats happening when they actually witness the GT who in turn accept Jehovah&#39;s kingdom rule. In those days persecution will be much greater than it is now so accepting Jehovah&#39;s kingdom in those days will pretty much be a death sentence since even preaching the good news will be a criminal offense probably punishable by death. May Jehovah bless those who seek to do his will. :icon_redface:

[watchman]

I agree with your views SayJay

[Anthony]

Anybody Who Refuses To Worship The Wild Beast

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ² Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.



Is not the eighth king (NWO) just another part of the superior authorities?

[Jeshurun]

Anybody Who Refuses To Worship The Wild Beast</span>

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ² Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.



Is not the eighth king (NWO) just another part of the superior authorities?[/b]

<span style="color:#000080">Acts 5:29 "In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men."

Romans 13:1 isn&#39;t the only place where Paul left out some crucial details. That&#39;s why the Bible as a whole always needs to be considered.

:Love:
Jesh