"out Of Every Tribe Of The Sons Of Israel"

[SlaveForJah]

So, who are "the sons of Israel" referred to in Revelation 7:4? The 144,000 are clearly described in this passage. Who are the remainder of "the sons of Israel" "out of" whom "every tribe" has "twelve thousand sealed"?


"4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed;
out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;

6 out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Naph´ta·li twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand;

7 out of the tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand;

8 out of the tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed. - Revelation 7:4-8





Agape

SlaveForJah

[SlaveForJah]

Bueller? Bueller?

Anyone? Anyone?

[Olm]

isnt there a passage about the grafting of the tree, how many are invited but few are choosen. How some of the branches are cut off and new branches are not grown in but are grafted into the tree, so would'nt those branches that are grafted into the tree be the remainder of the chosen ones out of the tribes. Maybe i'm way off or dont understand your question but hey i tried. Its in Romens about the 144,000 and how some are cut out of the heavenly class and new ones are put in the 144,000 class. I think Romens 13 maybe....or some where around there. If i'm way off maybe reword your question.

[BrotherJay]

I too do not understand your question. Rev 7:4-8 clearly describes who they are. What are you exactly asking?

Brother Jay

[Steadfast]

Dear Friends,

I believe SlaveForJah is asking what happens to the rest who are not chosen out of the 12 tribes? SFJ...correct me if I am wrong.

Love,

Steadfast

[SlaveForJah]

Ok, maybe my question isn't too clear. I'll try to explain.

Let's say that Israel is represented by the United States (just for sake of discussion - I'm not teaching any doctrine, this is just an illustration). Let's say the Twelve Tribes are represented by the 50 States. Let's say that there are twelve thousand chosen "out of every State of the Sons of America". The resulting 600,000 constitute a "Spiritual Washington". So, who, spiritually speaking, are the rest of the inhabitants of "Spiritual America"?

Or put another way...the 144,000 are said to be chosen out of the twelve tribes. Let's say the total population of this Israel is 1,000,000. After the 144,000 are taken out of the "sons of Israel", who are those that comprise the remaining 856,000 inhabitants of "Israel"?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[SlaveForJah]

Dear Friends,

I believe SlaveForJah is asking what happens to the rest who are not chosen out of the 12 tribes? SFJ...correct me if I am wrong.

Love,

Steadfast[/b]

Wow, Sis, posting at the same time. That's neat. But you are correct, that is my question. If the 144,000 are a subset of "Israel", then who are the complimentary subset? Or another way...algebraically...

Israel = twelve tribes
Twelve Tribes = 144,000 + X
Israel = 144,000 + X
Israel - 144,000 = X
X = ?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[FutureMan]

<div class='quotemain'>Dear Friends,

I believe SlaveForJah is asking what happens to the rest who are not chosen out of the 12 tribes? SFJ...correct me if I am wrong.

Love,

Steadfast[/b]

Wow, Sis, posting at the same time. That&#39;s neat. But you are correct, that is my question. If the 144,000 are a subset of "Israel", then who are the complimentary subset? Or another way...algebraically...

Israel = twelve tribes
Twelve Tribes = 144,000 + X
Israel = 144,000 + X
Israel - 144,000 = X
X = ?


Agape

SlaveForJah
[/b][/quote]

Hello all, here is my thinking on this, If we are all in the new covernant as one of our professed anointed ones among others claim then, yes we all have eternal life when Jesus gives all his servants their reward. We do not have to wait until the end of the one thousand years and the final judgement to receive this reward. But as we know eternal life on the earth would be conditional on our obedience to Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ and the Kingdom arrangement during the one thousand years and there after. Will not all of God&#39;s servants whether we have an earthly hope or a heavenly hope be declared righteous on the basis of Jesus Christ sacrifice and our faith which is backed up by works?
Doesn&#39;t it mention that all the great crowd standing before the throne will have a a white robe on and declaring that their salvation is owed to God and to the Lamb? Doesn&#39;t salvation mean that we now have been saved and that we have the reward of everlasting life at this future time?

But it appears that those of the kingdom and the heavenly hope will have true immortality and incorruptability granted them. As all true christians are faithfully doing the same work of making disciples and being followers of Christ in the real sense of the word then we all will receive the reward and blessings. But the only difference being that some will make up the bride class of 144,000 anointed ones with a kingdom hope being as a bride to Jesus Christ. It in my opinion, it is the wrong conclusion to make to say that such faithful ones like Abel, Enoch, Abraham, moses, Daniel, etc would be ressurected as imperfect humans still possesing the inherited imperfection from Adam and Eve and thereby still having to undergo tests to prove their faith and integrity to God during or at the end of the one thousand years. Would they not already be ressurected with everlasting bodies? Have they not proven their faith?

As for the number of 144,000 we are still not sure that this is a literal number or a symbolic number. Only future events will reveal this truth to us.

My two pennies worth from FutureMan

[Molly]

Hi SlaveFor Jah-

My guess would be the Great Crowd. Many are called but few are chosen. The called are the great crowd, out of which the (chosen) 144,000 are picked. They preach to those who are interested and produce the Great Crowd. All the crowd (called) are acceptable to God, but the chosen are picked to lead the charge and invite the rest of the tribes to come to Jesus&#39; side in opposition to Satan.

Molly

[panda]

I just noticed this thread, I put up a similar new topic, but on the wrong board, will paste it here.

[panda]

I had similar question.

Hi all I have a question, I don&#39;t understand why some listed in Exodus 1:1-4 are different from those in Rev 1:4-8.

Example. Jacob blessed the young Ephraim ahead of Manasseh. Ex 1:1-4) Mentioned are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Sascha, Zebulin and Benjamin, Dan and Naphtali Gad and Asher. that is 11. No mention of either Manasseh or Ephraim.

In Rev 7:4-8 Mentions. Judah, Reuben Gad and Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon and Levi, Issachar, Zebulun and Joseph, Benjamin.

what happened to Dan, Manasseh is mentioned but not in Exodus, and Ephraim is not mentioned in either.

In Gen 49:1-27) discusses the twelve tribes. Reuben, Simeon and Levi, Judah, Zebulum and Issachar, Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Benjamin, Gad and Joseph.

No mention of Manasseh as in (Rev 7:6) why are these different again. or are they not really related, isn&#39;t&#39; this the covenant between Abraham and Isaac as Jacob also is mentioned, in Hebrews 11:9.

panda

[truthseeker]

I had similar question.

Hi all I have a question, I don&#39;t understand why some listed in Exodus 1:1-4 are different from those in Rev 1:4-8.

Example. Jacob blessed the young Ephraim ahead of Manasseh. Ex 1:1-4) Mentioned are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Sascha, Zebulin and Benjamin, Dan and Naphtali Gad and Asher. that is 11. No mention of either Manasseh or Ephraim.

In Rev 7:4-8 Mentions. Judah, Reuben Gad and Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon and Levi, Issachar, Zebulun and Joseph, Benjamin.

what happened to Dan, Manasseh is mentioned but not in Exodus, and Ephraim is not mentioned in either.

In Gen 49:1-27) discusses the twelve tribes. Reuben, Simeon and Levi, Judah, Zebulum and Issachar, Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Benjamin, Gad and Joseph.

No mention of Manasseh as in (Rev 7:6) why are these different again. or are they not really related, isn&#39;t&#39; this the covenant between Abraham and Isaac as Jacob also is mentioned, in Hebrews 11:9.

panda[/b]

truthseeker

[Rogue]

So, who are "the sons of Israel" referred to in Revelation 7:4? The 144,000 are clearly described in this passage. Who are the remainder of "the sons of Israel" "out of" whom "every tribe" has "twelve thousand sealed"?


"4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed;
out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;

6 out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Naph´ta·li twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand;

7 out of the tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand;

8 out of the tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed. - Revelation 7:4-8





Agape

SlaveForJah[/b]


Hi svJ,
As u might remember, I had a simular question a few weeks ago, but your question it can not be answered without doubting the current view on the New Convenant, so I think u better not go to deep into this subject, because it is against the boards regulations, as I have experienced!

[panda]

well I guess there were two tribes from Ephraim and Manasseh. the northern and the southern, two different takes. Gen 49 and Exod 1. Judah and Israel, were they established then? The conclusion being what they decided in Rev 7.

Though I guess Ezra did his best. I have no answer other than the two different tribes adding there bit here and there. As they did demonize each other at times.