John 10 Who Is The Hired Hand

[Elihu]

Hi everyone

just thought i would float a question here that occured to me while reading John 10.
As we know this is when Jesus is rebuking the pharisees, and telling them that he is the genuine shepherd and he has sheep who listen to his voice and follow him. He also refers to other sheep that listen to His voice.

The particular point that has intigued me for some time is Christs reference to the hired hand who abandons the sheep, we read;

v11 "i am the fine shepherd the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep
v12 the Hired Man who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees and the wolf snatches them and scatters them and scatters them
v13 because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep"

This appears to me to be a reference by Christ to the future fall of the WT (the hired hand) when the king of fierce counternance (the wolf) invades the holy place and stands where it does not belong. resulting in the sheep being scattered.

would appreciate everyones comments on this topic

Elihu

[Jeshurun]

Hello Elihu

I would say that you are right on, especially in view of the fact that the Watchtower's promotion of the Governing Body as the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and the organizational idolatry perpetrated upon Jehovah's Witnesses, well represents the Phariseeic slavery of Jesus' day. In view of the future revealing of the man of lawlessness within that Governing Body, you are understanding John 10 correctly. They have been very active in abandoning Jehovah's sheep, disfellowshipping all who confront them on the 1914 doctrine, and the pedophile and NGO scandals.

[Nambo]

Or,

The fact that it is a "hired hand" would indicate to me that it is talking about religious leaders who do the work because they are getting paid.

Now Jehovah says about Babylon the Great, "get out of her my people", of course we do not consider the JWs to be Babylon the Great, so Jehovah seems to be saying that in Christendom some of his sheep are.

I personally cannot belive that everybody who is in Christendom is an evil determined sun-worshipper, but rather people who Love God just as much as we do but have been somewhat badly decieved, and we all know how that could happen!

Without doubt, the paid piesthood of Christendom, most of whom I doubt have a great deal of faith in God, will run a mile when thier faith is severly tested, leaving those who genuinly want to Love God, totally alone, which is where the faithfull wheat that is left from the JWs, will be able to offer them the true path to God to take if they really so wish.

[Molly]

Elihu-

Your analysis makes pretty good sense.

It doesn't seem to me that it could be referring to Christendom, since the annointed aren't in Christendom. Those in Christendom aren't at this point in time Jehovah's sheep, but since the Great Crowd is still yet to be collected, perhaps some of them will come out of Christendom's ranks.

It will be interesting to see how the so-called shepherds at the WTS actually do respond when things start to get ugly. We already know that their concern for the sheep stops when their misdeeds are exposed, so it would be no surprise to see them head for the hills when their enterprise falls to pieces.

Molly

[Kenneth]

We already know that their concern for the sheep stops when their misdeeds are exposed[/b]



How will this manifest itself?



Kenneth

[Molly]

We already know that their concern for the sheep stops when their misdeeds are exposed[/b]



How will this manifest itself?



Kenneth
[/b]


Kenneth-

I was simply referring to the treatment that brothers have received when they point out the UN-NGO affair, not some future manifestation.

[Elihu]

thank you for your posts,

Jeshurun, Nambo, Molly and Kenneth,
Nambo i agree with your belief that people in babylon the great who have faith in Christ rather than their organisation will be saved, because at that time the remnant will preach the "everlasting good news of the Kingdom" to those who dwell on the earth
and "to every nation tribe and tongue and people" rev14:6 and the unnumberable great multitude will be gathered.

remember that the watchtower who claim the only other sheep must be baptised Jehovahs witnesess, must know exactly how many that number is.
that is contrary to what revelation tells us.

however i agree with Molly that the "hired hand" is not the paid clergy of Christendom because the christ clearly says that the hired hand abandons the sheep. The sheep being, as Molly rightly points out, those of the little flock who cannot possibly be in christendom.

reasoning further, the idea that Christ is refering to a future abandonment by a authorised hired hand is in some way supported by the fact that Christ next mentions the "other sheep" v16 to me this indicates that Christ is indeed talking about a specific future event.

as Kenneth rightly ponders "how will this manifest itself"

Elihu

[Dorcas]

Dear Friends,
When I think about the hired hand it reminds me of the difference between renting a house and buying a house. The renter doesn't have a real investment in the house, so he does very little to keep it up or make improvements. Why? Because it doesn't belong to him! Now, the property owner has a real investment in his house. He wants it to hold its value or even become more valuable. He works hard on his investment. I think the scripture you're questioning can apply tp anyone who does the RIGHT thing for the WRONG reason. A friend pointed out to me that our final judgment depends on our loyalty to Jehovah. Are we serving him out of love? Are we truly invested in the coming rulership by Jehovah through his Son. Looking at things this way doesn't give anyone a free ticket into the new system--everyone will face a judgment.
What do all of you think? Does everyone still have a chance, whether anointed, great crowd, or anyone else that is invested in loving God. Remember Peter and his first contact with Cornelius. Peter hesitated, but Jehovah knew that the Roman man loved him.
Love to all, Dorcas :MSN Vlinder:

[Elihu]

Hi Dorcas,

yes i agree the scripture could describe anyone who does the right thing for the wrong reason, however i think it is more specific than just a general comment by Christ.

at first i thought he may be talking about the pharisees who in a way were a hired hand to guide the people, however the aspect of the wolf coming and the hired hand abandoning Christs sheep seems to me to be a specific future event, especially since Christ also chooses to reveal a secret which the elder in revelation reveals to John, which is that he has other sheep ,or as we now know them to be, the great crowd.

no wonder the Pharisees could not grasp what he was talking about it is only recently that the gathering of the GC has been recognised.

i do think that the hired hand actually depicts the WT organisation, and i think they are already demonstrating lack of love for the sheep by attempting to prop up the 1914 doctrine. One can only assume they do so because of fear of losing their credibility and position with the sheep.

It follows that if they do not really love the sheep, then when persecution comes they will abandon the sheep, and as Christ said the sheep will be scattered.
this must parallel the collapse of the Watchtower.

However Christ assures us that both flocks will become one fold with one shepherd, john10:16.

The Watchtower tells us that this has already taken place, but has it?

just my thoughts
Elihu

[Dorcas]

Hi Dorcas,

yes i agree the scripture could describe anyone who does the right thing for the wrong reason, however i think it is more specific than just a general comment by Christ.

at first i thought he may be talking about the pharisees who in a way were a hired hand to guide the people, however the aspect of the wolf coming and the hired hand abandoning Christs sheep seems to me to be a specific future event, especially since Christ also chooses to reveal a secret which the elder in revelation reveals to John, which is that he has other sheep ,or as we now know them to be, the great crowd.

no wonder the Pharisees could not grasp what he was talking about it is only recently that the gathering of the GC has been recognised.

i do think that the hired hand actually depicts the WT organisation, and i think they are already demonstrating lack of love for the sheep by attempting to prop up the 1914 doctrine. One can only assume they do so because of fear of losing their credibility and position with the sheep.

It follows that if they do not really love the sheep, then when persecution comes they will abandon the sheep, and as Christ said the sheep will be scattered.
this must parallel the collapse of the Watchtower.

However Christ assures us that both flocks will become one fold with one shepherd, john10:16.

The Watchtower tells us that this has already taken place, but has it?

just my thoughts
Elihu[/b]

All the applications you make may apply, Elihu. One thing is certain -- the hired hand had no love for nor investmet in God's people. False shepherds have been identified among God's people for thousands of years. Those who are willing to go out to find the "lost sheep" seem to be in the minority these days, unfortunately.
Keep on keepen' on, Elihu.
Hugs, Dorcas :MSN Vlinder: