Watchtower Study

[Kenneth]

This thread had been produced as an encouragement to those who share the beliefs of JWs. This is not a case of pouring 'new wine into old wine skins' or a case of trying to 'reinvent the wheel'. This thread is solely to look at the Watchtower Study and find encouraging points that we can share with others. We are aware of the issues so let's remember it's a positive look at the material. If we find something critical let's ask ourselves, of what benefit are my comments going to be if they are negative to my brothers/sisters? We don't need to start a new thread for each week as we can just have a continuation of this one. If it's OK I will post the Title and date of each study article on a Monday morning, even though I will not be producing the complete article. That will give us the week to study the material and make some contribution by the Saturday, even if it's just a sentence or two.

"For I am longing to see YOU, that I may impart some spiritual gift to YOU in order for YOU to be made firm; ¹² or, rather, that there may be an interchange of encouragement among YOU, by each one through the other's faith, both YOURS and mine." ( Romans 1:12)

[Kenneth]

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"For God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name" HEBREWs 10:6
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Study Article March 5-11

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

I am in favour of the concept, but we should discuss all points of interest. Those points which may not be of an upbuilding nature to some may have the opposite effect for those seeking truth. I am not talking about being critical for the sake of it, but we dont want to feel we are gagged here just as we are in the Kingdom Hall, do we.

EF

[Kenneth]

This is not about being gagged it just about finding scriptures that are sited in the Watchtower and lifting them out in relation to its theme. I appreciate that there are Watchtowers that are difficult especially the one we had on the resurrection the other week. So if the comments are constructive and to the point as I&#39;m sure they will be then that OK. I suppose it would be impossible not to have constructive criticism otherwise we may as well attend the meetings and have done with it. What I&#39;m trying to say is that when the Watchtower study was on line sometime ago it was all negative and rarely was anything said in a positive way. Much of the material that comes out of the Watchtower is sound and there is good counsel to be had, focusing on this is far more beneficial than giving the Watchtower a pasting. So lets see how it goes, and what can we glean from the study.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

So if the comments are constructive and to the point as I&#39;m sure they will be then that OK.[/b]

I know what you&#39;re getting at, and as I say, I think in principle it is a good idea. What I am saying is that it is all "ok" because anyone seeking the truth needs to see the whole study in context - that inevitably means supporting what is right, and debunking the myths. I&#39;m sure it will work out, we are all responsible.

EF

[stayawake]

THE WT STUDY = QUESTION
What if the scripture cited in the WT lesson supports a wrong teaching, like 1914 ,do we just ignor that part of the study and bite our tongue ?
Grant it, not every thing they say is wrong, but what is wrong should be exposed.
I cant think of a better way of praising Gods WORD. " For God is not unrightious so as to forget your work and the love you showed for HIS name" Heb 10:6
love stayawake

[stayawake]

Ken,
I think I will stick to this thread, that way we can have those who agree and leave it open for those who may not. I am not suggesting a debate, but let us ponder for a minute.
Yes we learned the core doctrines that brought us out of false religion thru the WT, Keep in mind Jah used the WT to start gathering the rest of the 144,000 , but what has it given us since then.
LIES
Where did we learn from the scriptures that the Kingdom was not set up yet , that satan has not been cast out yet, the temple inspection has not taken place yet, WW1 was NOT THE WAR,Jesus was referring to, that the #144,000 is not sealed yet, millions then living in 1914 that would never die DID,
( we Are told by the WT we are now in a spiritual paradise .REALLY!!!) another lie,How did we hear of all these Lies
We learned that from watcman by his correctly using Gods word
Then the WT committed a ten year adultress affair with the UN. Did they share that with us ??
No, they made us unknowingly share in that sin. We were out there distributing the 66 awake magazines to keep the WT a NGO member..
You want us to be possitive in looking for good in them .The milk they are putting on the table is just that, MILK along with their LIES
You said some one said, to let the annointed judge the annointed,I don&#39;t want to know what someone said
what do the SCRIPTURES SAY ABOUT WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE.
GODS word already tells us where the WT stands. When they became a NGO member ,they became a enemy of GOD
DO YOU NOT KNOW !! James 4:4,5
It was time for us to move on and here we are. Keep in mind what happened to Lots wife, she looked back longingly.

Your right Ken, I really do think it best you leave the book study Revelation book to watchman.

Love stayawake

[Kenneth]

OK I get the picture. None of this was about trying to be an apologist for the Watchtower, nor sweeping anything under that carpet, we are all fully aware of the sins that they have committed. And being upbeat in the light of some of Roberts&#39;s essay I appreciate would be difficult. It was never my intention to set rules of what we can and can&#39;t say at this forum, I&#39;m not a moderator and have no desire to be one. And yes that is exactly what is happening at out KH&#39;s there are too many gagging orders.



"Kenneth, have been very vocal in putting down any suggestion that we should bring the truth to the brothers still caught up in the lies promoted by the WTS, now you want us to be quiet about it here too ??!! "[/b]

None of this was ever about being quite, (even though I advise caution in who we speak to, my own personal experience bears that out) it was about just discussing the bible, using the Watchtower study and finding some gems that we share with each other. They could be historical or some other points of interest using the Watchtower as a base. It was never my intention to suggest we all sit here and say &#39;Hey wasn&#39;t that a wonderful Watchtower study, one of the best I have ever seen&#39; as they do at the KH&#39;s. It was about just having an interchange of encouragement instead of fault finding. And yes there are plenty of faults to find.

<span style="font-family:Verdana">I can see this has already caused some contention and in the interest of harmony and peace I think it best that we let this thread run down the list and off the forum and leave it. I will still stand by what I have said and leave Robert and others to do the judging on the Watchtower though his essays. So as I stated let the thread run off the board along with the other one I posted about the Watchtower. Please accept my apologies if I have caused some upset and contention in something that I probably new in my heart would never really workout in the first place.

Kenneth </span>

[Shibboleth]

Kenneth,

I think this idea is wonderful. I don&#39;t think some people understand what you wanted to do. Personally I won&#39;t look for faults of the Society. Why should I cast stones at someone when stones should be cast at me also? Instead of thriving on negativity I think we should have some threads that are positive. This DB has gone in the opposite direction and we need to have some encouragement. There used to be some real good contributers to this site before the "cleansing" that actually brought out scriptures and we discussed scriptures and their meaning. This has not been happening as of late and I probably haven&#39;t contributed to much to the positive side, also.

I just want to thank you for bringing this to our attention and I urge everyone here to actually think about what Kenneth said. He is not asking to make things look like a bed of roses. He is just asking for some more positive threads. And he is asking us what positive things we pulled from the Watchtower study. there still are positive things the Watchtower has written in it.

Is that really to much to ask of us?

[stayawake]

[quote name=&#39;Shibboleth&#39; date=&#39;Mar 7 2007, 12:40 PM&#39; post=. There used to be some real good contributers to this site before the "cleansing" that actually brought out scriptures and we discussed scriptures and their meaning. This has
not been happening as of late and I probably haven&#39;t contributed to much to the positive side, also.


Dear brother, I was going to let this die BUT
you said it yourself before the" CLEANSING".so how could have everything been good if there was a "cleansing" ??
I am just saying the WT study belongs in the KH. Those who still go, are not missing out on it. So why worry ??
We have all of watchmans beautiful insite as to the prophets of Jehovah, who expose the WT, so if the prophets were inspired to write about the WT and warn us in regard to todays events it is their writtings we should be formiliar with and talking about . Jah didn&#39;t inspire these writters of old to write HIS denounceations, just to be ignored
Jah had them put in the Bible for us to be on the WATCH. These are the scriptures to be open about.
IMHO don&#39;t want to ever take Gods Word lightly.
love stayawake

[Shibboleth]

Stayawake, what I meant about "cleansing" was there were people here that were not contributing to the benefit of others. They were tearing down the faiths of people here. They were sowing ill-fruits. Namely those who were forcing the Russellite doctrines on others. Wolves in sheep&#39;s clothing. Apostates. Whatever you want to call them. I stopped contributing to this site because of them. I was glad that Watchman had the courage to put a stop to it.

Watchman has explicitly said that this site is for people who hold the views of being Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses. it is a site for those witnesses who may question or who are looking for answers but are afraid to ask the elders or discuss this with people in their congregations for fear of being labeled.

I thought the cleansing and purging was a good thing. There were some that felt slighted by it, and they really should not have felt that way. But we still lost some real good contributers because of it.

I respect Watchman&#39;s views, but I don&#39;t cling to every word he says or writes. I don&#39;t hold him above the Society or the Society above him. He does have some wonderful knowledge, but as far as being a prophet or annointed or whatever people may call him, I am skeptic.

The reason I joined this site was because Watchman wasn&#39;t afraid to discuss prophecies. He shared his view. That is why I am here to share my view. I am trying to make sense of prophesy. I am trying to stay firm in my faith even though I am a sinner and feel unworthy of being a follower of Jehovah.

Hopefully you understand what I am trying to say.

[Berean]

I must say I see completely what Shibboleth&#39;s point is, and I do agree with him. What I think some people are afraid of is that we&#39;re going back to worshipping an organization that should not be worshipped, but instead should be a tool for us Christians to practice our faith. Similarly, like Shibboleth said, Watchman should not be worshipped, and I believe that is not his idea in starting this site (being worshipped, that is). Specifically, this forum exists for our benefit, to build up each other in any way possible, as long as it does not conflict with Jehovah&#39;s will. That&#39;s the most important thing. We sometimes tend to focus so much on the messenger, that we forget who really is the head of our congregation. In short, what I&#39;m saying is, we should be thankful to anyone who helps us advance in our faith, even if it may seem that they are doing things not quite right (Luke 9:49, 50). And of course nobody can have everything right all the time. Moses made mistakes, Isaiah had his doubts as to whether he really could be a prophet, David made many mistakes, Jeremiah was perhaps too depressed about Israel&#39;s downfall for his own good, Solomon made mistakes, Peter had a short temper, John and James sent their mother to ask an unrealistic favour of Jesus, and all the apostles were arguing about who was the greatest. So it&#39;s natural that people make mistakes; that&#39;s also the reason why you should not put 100% trust in people (Psalm 146:3), and should not revere people in any way (Matthew 23:8-12). I think that is what some are afraid of, that we are going back to worshipping what should not be worshipped. Instead, we should pick what&#39;s good to eat, and throw out the rest, to use one of sister E&E&#39;s sayings.

[stayawake]

OK my dear brothers,
believe me i do understand both of you.
What i found really upsetting is that the paragraphs to the WT study were not going to be put on the board. What about those who don&#39;t have the mag ???
What we would have here would be a small group who had the mag ,which would exclude the rest of the board.
This is exactly what Satan would want DIVISION
Look at how we ALL benifited from the whole WT study being put on the board.for the ressurection study
If it were not for that study being put on the board , how many of us would ever search the scriptures, to make sure of all things. If it were not for the whole WT study being put on the board how would we have ever known,
That the 24 elders were NOT the annointed as the WT claimed they were.
How could the 144.00 be the 24 Elders when they where in front of the singing 144,000 . Another beatiful point that was discovered was that John called one of the Elders Lord, showing that the Elders were respected by the 144,000, there fore the two groups are not one and the same. Would any of us ever known that with out the complete study being on the board, or our deep thinkers getting into it ??
So if you want to do something dont hinder Jahs spirit by holding back what should be uncovered. THank you dear brothers who REALLY studied that Ressurection article to bring these precious truths to us. If it werent for you really searching the scriptures we would have just went along with what the WT said.
Jah wanted that exposed and am sure HE got it on this board thru the bro who posted it, and then stirred the hearts for you brothers to dig out the meat that the WT had hidden and blinded to see. Pro 27:11
So lets have the WT but be fair about it, let us read what the whole WT says. Jah no

doubt wants us to see what the WT is feeding their sheep. They are not going to see it
from their sheperds.How many bros inside seen what we were shown, and questioned it ??
FEAR is another weapon of Satans.
Don&#39;t ever try to cover up what Jah is trying to uncover.
Ok now you know my side of the story.
love stayawake

[Shibboleth]

Hey Stayawake, I totally understand where you are coming from also.

I would like to let people know that if they want to have a copy of the Watchtower and maybe have some reserves about going to a hall to get one, you can feel free to PM me with your address and I will mail one to you. Your address will be strictly confidential and I will not give it out to anyone.

So I will open that avenue to anyone here.

I have quite a few back issues of the latest magazine. I currently get 3 copies each at my hall but I hardly go out in service and place any. I have given some to a close friend who was DF&#39;d because he didn&#39;t have the latest study issues.

[stayawake]

THANK YOU Shibb, but i do have access to the Study,
You know this is what I call love, when communication is heard and understood. I am sure I speak for all of us.
This was a great thread, and a lot of thoughts were expressed and ironed out.
Not that we all see things on the same level, aside from Gods word if we did we would all be robots
but we have the freedom to use our minds and express ourselfs and still remember we are in the same family.
I want you to know i love every one of you
stayawake

[eyes&ears]

And we love you right back Sis Stayawake!! :ban_dance01: :D

E & E

[Berean]

Yes, I agree that it is very useful for the study articles to be put online, so that everyone can shine their light on the matter. And it&#39;s not just helpful for the ones who do not have access to the article by other means, but also for people like me, who get the Watchtower in a language other than English. It&#39;s much easier to be able to copy and paste a quote than to try and translate something from Dutch to English, where you have to guess what the original article said exactly.

[Jeshurun]

I have given some to a close friend who was DF&#39;d because he didn&#39;t have the latest study issues.[/b]

Now I know they&#39;re tyrannical!

:icon_twisted:

Just kidding!

[SlaveForJah]

This thread had been produced as an encouragement to those who share the beliefs of JWs. This is not a case of pouring &#39;new wine into old wine skins&#39; or a case of trying to &#39;reinvent the wheel&#39;. This thread is solely to look at the Watchtower Study and find encouraging points that we can share with others. We are aware of the issues so let&#39;s remember it&#39;s a positive look at the material. If we find something critical let&#39;s ask ourselves, of what benefit are my comments going to be if they are negative to my brothers/sisters? We don&#39;t need to start a new thread for each week as we can just have a continuation of this one. If it&#39;s OK I will post the Title and date of each study article on a Monday morning, even though I will not be producing the complete article. That will give us the week to study the material and make some contribution by the Saturday, even if it&#39;s just a sentence or two.

"For I am longing to see YOU, that I may impart some spiritual gift to YOU in order for YOU to be made firm; ¹² or, rather, that there may be an interchange of encouragement among YOU, by each one through the other&#39;s faith, both YOURS and mine." ( Romans 1:12)[/b]



Yes, I agree that it is very useful for the study articles to be put online, so that everyone can shine their light on the matter. And it&#39;s not just helpful for the ones who do not have access to the article by other means, but also for people like me, who get the Watchtower in a language other than English. It&#39;s much easier to be able to copy and paste a quote than to try and translate something from Dutch to English, where you have to guess what the original article said exactly.[/b]


Hey Watchman,

In light of the recent copyright discussions, are we able to do this? I recall Wuji posting the Watchtower Study Article every week, on the old board. (What ever happened to Wuji, by the by?) And, as several of us do not currently get the magazines, in our absence from the Kingdom Hall, it may be of some encouragement, not only to those of us who post regularly, but to those who visit here, as well. If I recall correctly from the recent topic of copyrights, as long as the copyright owner is noted and there is discussion or commentary about the material, then it falls under the fair use laws. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, it would be a nice thing to have, but I could not be the one to do it, as I am not currently getting the magazines. So, if it is indeed lawful, Watchman, perhaps, if you find it agreeable, request that someone post the Study article on a weekly basis.


Just some thoughts

SlaveForJah

[watchman]

Splendid idea. I&#39;ll look into having Timothy post the study articles every week.

Watchman