The Meetings....

[Gabriel]

Does it meet your needs?

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi Gabriel :icon_razz: :wave: ,

It sure is good to hear from you. Hope all is OKEY DOKEY.

Nope, the meetings do not meet my needs. The only thing I enjoy doing is
talking to, hugging and loving the broken friends, which are many.

I endure the meetings, and every once in awhile, a bit of real food is thrown out at us and I grab it and greedily eat it up like a starving person. (No joke)

Sisterly love,

E & E

[Rogue]

I have stopped going to meetings about 2 or 3 months ago, because I starting finding out more and more untruths... before I read the e-watchman essays I felt lost and was affraid there was no truth or true religion... since I have come to understand that everything is going as jehovah has prophesied and all the hapenings in the org need to happen and jehovah will take care of it, I have found peace of mind... for the first time in... well... I actualy can't remember the last time I felt like I had a relationship with Jehovah... I had grown so sceptic of the organisation over the years, and now I see I saw Jehovah and the organisation as one, so I sort of stopped believing in Him as well... but now I read the bible daily and since I have found out the real biblical truth I feel full of love for Jehovah again... all these years attending meetings had never done that for me... so no, the meetings don't even come close to forfilling my needs...
At the moment I'm still in doubt about what jehovah expects froms us in this current time, when we are in the middle of all things, before Jehovah sets things straight and the 'true'' religion will be formed... I don't know if He expects us to keep attending meetings and preach the JW's version of the truth... I wish the Bible was more specific about that... but I guess we all need to do what we can, and at the moment I don't feel like attending meetings AT ALL, I don't feel strenghtend or build up or happy at meetings, I tend to feel depressed when I'm there actualy, so at the moment I don't see the benefit of meetings, but I guess each persons situation is different...

Besides, I would have the hardest time biting my tongue thee entire meeting... I would have to surpress the impuls to raise my hand during the WT study and aks the brother on the stand about certain biblical matters that he cannot provide an answer for lol ;);) (just kidding of course)

[tortas]

i feel the same way Rogue

if i understand correctly , we can be considered some of the fish

that have been caught (as the parable goes)


our time of judgement is still yet to come during GT

[Cephalon]

Does it meet your needs?[/b]

I get out of the meetings what I need. Does it meet all my needs? No, because some things you can only get them thru personal study and deep meditation.
But without the meetings, I would probably be drowned.
Nothing like being among my brother/sisters, folks who share my spiritual values ..especially in this chaotic world

[Gabriel]

Thanks for all your replies. Im still stuggling with this issue...even after all these years.
I personally lost all trust within the organization. To put it bluntly...Im "Turned Off"
I maen I enjoy seeing others there....but when it all comes down to it, I feel like im just wandering.

I try to comfort myself by saying that Ill wait for the two witnesses to clear things up but that dont really set right with me either.

Truth is..I dont know what Father wants me to do. or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbore and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like im ....floating.

[tortas]

Truth is..I dont know what Father wants me to do. or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbore and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like im ....floating.
[/quote]

i think ur just suffering from years of being conditioned to

think you HAVE to do something now

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi my lil brother Gabriel, :wave:

First of all let me give you a big sisterly . :bisou:


You said:

I am still stuggling with this issue...even after all these years.
I've personally lost all trust within the organization. To put it bluntly...I am "Turned Off"
I mean I enjoy seeing others there....but when it all comes down to it, I feel like i am just wandering.

I try to comfort myself by saying that I'll wait for the two witnesses to clear things up but that don't really set right with me either.

Truth is..I don't know what Father wants me to do, or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbor and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like I am ....floating.

************************************************** ***************

You've lost trust in the org because you as many of us did in the past, put our trust in the org and imperfect men, when we should have been focused on Jehovah and his son. I have been there and done that Gabe. What I have learned after all these years is that the org is the tool/method that was used to gather Jehovah's household and also to feed the sheep. Jehovah sent his son here to die for us, he is the way. JN 14:6.

What we have to understand is that we must separate the tool from the savior. Jesus is the savior, the WTBTS is the tool. I know there are many many illustrations I could use rather than that statement. But that should suffice right?

Jehovah wants us to use the tool for learning that is all. We are to follow the footsteps of his son. We are to obey Jehovah and use discernment in dealing with the tool as Jehovah is allowing all these things to go on until he is ready to take care of it.

This is a time for us to get as close to Jehovah as we can Gabe. No matter what in the world is going on around us inside or outside the org. We must, Gabe we MUST, stay focused on Jehovah and his purpose.

The only one causing all this dumb confusion is the evil one. So many are losing focus and getting caught up in what I refer to now as DUMBSTUFF. Stuff that it has taken me years to learn that Jehovah could care less about.

I hear it in car groups when I am out in service, I hear it in the congs, or at gatherings. JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY.

My focus now is on WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN DOING WHAT JEHOVAH HAS
LEFT ME TO DO. IT IS QUITE SIMPLE now that I understand.

PREACH, TEACH, MAKE SURE, STAY ON THE WATCH, KEEP MYSELF MORALLY CLEAN AND DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THE WORLD IN ANY FORM OR FASHION.
MOST IMPORTANT TO ME IS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH JEHOVAH, MY FAITH, STANDING FIRM/ ENDURANCE. Why because Jehovah has told us about the difficulties that would be rampant in his household during our time.

You know one of my favorite sayings is "IT AIN'T EASY BUT".............


If I am doing this and spending quality time with Jehovah, using the knowldge he has given me, discernment and good commonsense, well then there is nothing more that I can do. Jehovah will take care of the rest.

What is going on inside now is making my stomach turn, but I will WAIT ON JEHOVAH. I am not leaving until I know it is Jehovah directing me to leave. I believe deep in my heart that when it is time to go NOT ONE OF US WILL HAVE TO ASK. NOT ONE OF US WILL BE CONFUSED.

But until that time, whether we are DF, DA, Inactive or in good standing, we best be reading the scriptures, associating with those who along with Jehovah's spirit can build us up and help us to hold on tight. If we are in a DF, DA state and are attending meetings and cannot talk to anyone then it us up to us to make a decisiosn on how we are going to continue to hold on to Jehovah with every ounce of strength and love that we have for our father and his son.

In the future we have no idea where we may end up. We may not be able to be with our families, we may be alone. If we cannot cope now Gabe, what in the world are we gonna do at that time when the poop hits the big fan.

Come here Gabe, gimme a big hug. Now smack smack upside your head. Pull yourself together my brother, as I will say to you again. DON'T LET ME HAVE TO REACH OUT INTO CYBER SPACE AND TOUCH YOU OK.

Ya know I love ya and you know the scriptures. You will be OK STOP LISTENING TO ANY INNER FEELINGS/EMOTIONS THAT TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT O.K. JEHOVAH LOVES YOU VERY MUCH, YOU WILL BE OK.

Your sister E & E

[FGM]

I have stopped going to meetings about 2 or 3 months ago, because I starting finding out more and more untruths... before I read the e-watchman essays I felt lost and was affraid there was no truth or true religion... since I have come to understand that everything is going as jehovah has prophesied and all the hapenings in the org need to happen and jehovah will take care of it, I have found peace of mind... for the first time in... well... I actualy can't remember the last time I felt like I had a relationship with Jehovah... I had grown so sceptic of the organisation over the years, and now I see I saw Jehovah and the organisation as one, so I sort of stopped believing in Him as well... but now I read the bible daily and since I have found out the real biblical truth I feel full of love for Jehovah again... all these years attending meetings had never done that for me... so no, the meetings don't even come close to forfilling my needs...
At the moment I'm still in doubt about what jehovah expects froms us in this current time, when we are in the middle of all things, before Jehovah sets things straight and the 'true'' religion will be formed... I don't know if He expects us to keep attending meetings and preach the JW's version of the truth... I wish the Bible was more specific about that... but I guess we all need to do what we can, and at the moment I don't feel like attending meetings AT ALL, I don't feel strenghtend or build up or happy at meetings, I tend to feel depressed when I'm there actualy, so at the moment I don't see the benefit of meetings, but I guess each persons situation is different...

Besides, I would have the hardest time biting my tongue thee entire meeting... I would have to surpress the impuls to raise my hand during the WT study and aks the brother on the stand about certain biblical matters that he cannot provide an answer for lol ;);) (just kidding of course)[/b]

Not surprisingly I feel the same way. Funny how Jehovah has directed such ones as us to this site. I still go to the meetings but I try to have a positive view that amongst all the c**p that we get there are some fine gems. I posted a while back about a brother who dealt with the Local needs part and he focused on how we should meditate on God's word. It was a really upbuilding talk. Also I can sow some seeds amongst my Brothers to get them thinking. I (of course subtly) mention some point "I found interesting in my personal study" which usually gets some attention,... then mention about the NGO affair. (Casually like...) "I didn't know that"..some say..." yeah interesting isn't it " I reply. "So how is the family....." Maybe I can get some to at least start to look into these things. If so, I feel I have done some good at the meeting. However, I know I have to be careful but so far it's no problem and some have even come up to me and said "thanks for mentioning that point.." So I view my congregation as a field "white for harvesting".. not to cause division but just to bring to attention of others that there are some things we need to find out about. So I think that how you view the meetings is really the key. And you will be encouraged by some talks..not all of them are bad.
Of course we all have to make our own decision but maybe after missing some meetings it 's good to go. You never know ..if we have this thought, maybe Jehovah is telling us something.

[Oakscove]

I see everyones point. there are benefits both to going and to not going... i myself find the truth new and therefore i do question things. this is by no means bad in the elders eyes here in wawa. he has actually thanked me for bringing certain subjects up. it gets him thinking, and therefore he has to look things up. like i asked about the memorial and the taking of the bread, and i asked how does one know that they are one of the 144,000? and if i was one (hypothetically) what makes me so special or privileged enough to take of the bread? that got him thinking cause he has been in the truth since childhood he just took it for granted that he was to live on paradise earth. I'm still looking for that answer but i guess i'll find it when i become baptized. i have found that my questions do eventually get answered by ironically enough the watchtower (both study and public) and the awake magazines. usually a month or two later. I know that i'm still learning and i do find some in my congregation to be "holier than thou" but i say to myself..... Jehovah will set it all straight when the day comes. all i can do is keep taking in his knowledge, and to talk to him regularly to ask for his support in all i can do from here on in. and by no means will i ever stop asking questions. an old boss once told me there is no such thing as a stupid question........ if you don't ask you will never find out.


Oakspi.

[shikinah]

I have stopped going to meetings about 2 or 3 months ago, because I starting finding out more and more untruths... before I read the e-watchman essays I felt lost and was affraid there was no truth or true religion... since I have come to understand that everything is going as jehovah has prophesied and all the hapenings in the org need to happen and jehovah will take care of it, I have found peace of mind... for the first time in... well... I actualy can't remember the last time I felt like I had a relationship with Jehovah... I had grown so sceptic of the organisation over the years, and now I see I saw Jehovah and the organisation as one, so I sort of stopped believing in Him as well... but now I read the bible daily and since I have found out the real biblical truth I feel full of love for Jehovah again... all these years attending meetings had never done that for me... so no, the meetings don't even come close to forfilling my needs...
At the moment I'm still in doubt about what jehovah expects froms us in this current time, when we are in the middle of all things, before Jehovah sets things straight and the 'true'' religion will be formed... I don't know if He expects us to keep attending meetings and preach the JW's version of the truth... I wish the Bible was more specific about that... but I guess we all need to do what we can, and at the moment I don't feel like attending meetings AT ALL, I don't feel strenghtend or build up or happy at meetings, I tend to feel depressed when I'm there actualy, so at the moment I don't see the benefit of meetings, but I guess each persons situation is different...

Besides, I would have the hardest time biting my tongue thee entire meeting... I would have to surpress the impuls to raise my hand during the WT study and aks the brother on the stand about certain biblical matters that he cannot provide an answer for lol ;) ;) (just kidding of course)[/b]

Wow Rogue,
you took the words right out of my mouth, i couldnt have said it better.


Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[shikinah]

Hi my lil brother Gabriel, :wave:

First of all let me give you a big sisterly . :bisou:


You said:

I am still stuggling with this issue...even after all these years.
I've personally lost all trust within the organization. To put it bluntly...I am "Turned Off"
I mean I enjoy seeing others there....but when it all comes down to it, I feel like i am just wandering.

I try to comfort myself by saying that I'll wait for the two witnesses to clear things up but that don't really set right with me either.

Truth is..I don't know what Father wants me to do, or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbor and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like I am ....floating.

************************************************** ***************

You've lost trust in the org because you as many of us did in the past, put our trust in the org and imperfect men, when we should have been focused on Jehovah and his son. I have been there and done that Gabe. What I have learned after all these years is that the org is the tool/method that was used to gather Jehovah's household and also to feed the sheep. Jehovah sent his son here to die for us, he is the way. JN 14:6.

What we have to understand is that we must separate the tool from the savior. Jesus is the savior, the WTBTS is the tool. I know there are many many illustrations I could use rather than that statement. But that should suffice right?

Jehovah wants us to use the tool for learning that is all. We are to follow the footsteps of his son. We are to obey Jehovah and use discernment in dealing with the tool as Jehovah is allowing all these things to go on until he is ready to take care of it.

This is a time for us to get as close to Jehovah as we can Gabe. No matter what in the world is going on around us inside or outside the org. We must, Gabe we MUST, stay focused on Jehovah and his purpose.

The only one causing all this dumb confusion is the evil one. So many are losing focus and getting caught up in what I refer to now as DUMBSTUFF. Stuff that it has taken me years to learn that Jehovah could care less about.

I hear it in car groups when I am out in service, I hear it in the congs, or at gatherings. JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY.

My focus now is on WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN DOING WHAT JEHOVAH HAS
LEFT ME TO DO. IT IS QUITE SIMPLE now that I understand.

PREACH, TEACH, MAKE SURE, STAY ON THE WATCH, KEEP MYSELF MORALLY CLEAN AND DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THE WORLD IN ANY FORM OR FASHION.
MOST IMPORTANT TO ME IS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH JEHOVAH, MY FAITH, STANDING FIRM/ ENDURANCE. Why because Jehovah has told us about the difficulties that would be rampant in his household during our time.

You know one of my favorite sayings is "IT AIN'T EASY BUT".............


If I am doing this and spending quality time with Jehovah, using the knowldge he has given me, discernment and good commonsense, well then there is nothing more that I can do. Jehovah will take care of the rest.

What is going on inside now is making my stomach turn, but I will WAIT ON JEHOVAH. I am not leaving until I know it is Jehovah directing me to leave. I believe deep in my heart that when it is time to go NOT ONE OF US WILL HAVE TO ASK. NOT ONE OF US WILL BE CONFUSED.

But until that time, whether we are DF, DA, Inactive or in good standing, we best be reading the scriptures, associating with those who along with Jehovah's spirit can build us up and help us to hold on tight. If we are in a DF, DA state and are attending meetings and cannot talk to anyone then it us up to us to make a decisiosn on how we are going to continue to hold on to Jehovah with every ounce of strength and love that we have for our father and his son.

In the future we have no idea where we may end up. We may not be able to be with our families, we may be alone. If we cannot cope now Gabe, what in the world are we gonna do at that time when the poop hits the big fan.

Come here Gabe, gimme a big hug. Now smack smack upside your head. Pull yourself together my brother, as I will say to you again. DON'T LET ME HAVE TO REACH OUT INTO CYBER SPACE AND TOUCH YOU OK.

Ya know I love ya and you know the scriptures. You will be OK STOP LISTENING TO ANY INNER FEELINGS/EMOTIONS THAT TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT O.K. JEHOVAH LOVES YOU VERY MUCH, YOU WILL BE OK.

Your sister E & E[/b]


Thank you E & E,
that was beautifully put, and every word you said was so true. My heart is so heavy and so sad that sometimes its just easier to shut yourself away from it all. But thank you, i will consider your words of wisdom.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[shikinah]

I see everyones point. there are benefits both to going and to not going... i myself find the truth new and therefore i do question things. this is by no means bad in the elders eyes here in wawa. he has actually thanked me for bringing certain subjects up. it gets him thinking, and therefore he has to look things up. like i asked about the memorial and the taking of the bread, and i asked how does one know that they are one of the 144,000? and if i was one (hypothetically) what makes me so special or privileged enough to take of the bread? that got him thinking cause he has been in the truth since childhood he just took it for granted that he was to live on paradise earth. I'm still looking for that answer but i guess i'll find it when i become baptized. i have found that my questions do eventually get answered by ironically enough the watchtower (both study and public) and the awake magazines. usually a month or two later. I know that i'm still learning and i do find some in my congregation to be "holier than thou" but i say to myself..... Jehovah will set it all straight when the day comes. all i can do is keep taking in his knowledge, and to talk to him regularly to ask for his support in all i can do from here on in. and by no means will i ever stop asking questions. an old boss once told me there is no such thing as a stupid question........ if you don't ask you will never find out.


Oakspi.[/b]


Hi Oakspi,
Id like to say, im glad to see that you have handled what you know about the truth exceedingly well, as it sounds like you havnt known it too long, and its very encouraging to see despite what we read or hear, that the organisation still serves a vital purpose, just reading your post has been very encouraging thank you.

Jah Bless
Elizabeth

[panda]

Hi my lil brother Gabriel, :wave:

First of all let me give you a big sisterly . :bisou:


You said:

I am still stuggling with this issue...even after all these years.
I've personally lost all trust within the organization. To put it bluntly...I am "Turned Off"
I mean I enjoy seeing others there....but when it all comes down to it, I feel like i am just wandering.

I try to comfort myself by saying that I'll wait for the two witnesses to clear things up but that don't really set right with me either.

Truth is..I don't know what Father wants me to do, or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbor and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like I am ....floating.

************************************************** ***************

You've lost trust in the org because you as many of us did in the past, put our trust in the org and imperfect men, when we should have been focused on Jehovah and his son. I have been there and done that Gabe. What I have learned after all these years is that the org is the tool/method that was used to gather Jehovah's household and also to feed the sheep. Jehovah sent his son here to die for us, he is the way. JN 14:6.

What we have to understand is that we must separate the tool from the savior. Jesus is the savior, the WTBTS is the tool. I know there are many many illustrations I could use rather than that statement. But that should suffice right?

Jehovah wants us to use the tool for learning that is all. We are to follow the footsteps of his son. We are to obey Jehovah and use discernment in dealing with the tool as Jehovah is allowing all these things to go on until he is ready to take care of it.

This is a time for us to get as close to Jehovah as we can Gabe. No matter what in the world is going on around us inside or outside the org. We must, Gabe we MUST, stay focused on Jehovah and his purpose.

The only one causing all this dumb confusion is the evil one. So many are losing focus and getting caught up in what I refer to now as DUMBSTUFF. Stuff that it has taken me years to learn that Jehovah could care less about.

I hear it in car groups when I am out in service, I hear it in the congs, or at gatherings. JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY.

My focus now is on WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN DOING WHAT JEHOVAH HAS
LEFT ME TO DO. IT IS QUITE SIMPLE now that I understand.

PREACH, TEACH, MAKE SURE, STAY ON THE WATCH, KEEP MYSELF MORALLY CLEAN AND DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THE WORLD IN ANY FORM OR FASHION.
MOST IMPORTANT TO ME IS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH JEHOVAH, MY FAITH, STANDING FIRM/ ENDURANCE. Why because Jehovah has told us about the difficulties that would be rampant in his household during our time.

You know one of my favorite sayings is "IT AIN'T EASY BUT".............


If I am doing this and spending quality time with Jehovah, using the knowldge he has given me, discernment and good commonsense, well then there is nothing more that I can do. Jehovah will take care of the rest.

What is going on inside now is making my stomach turn, but I will WAIT ON JEHOVAH. I am not leaving until I know it is Jehovah directing me to leave. I believe deep in my heart that when it is time to go NOT ONE OF US WILL HAVE TO ASK. NOT ONE OF US WILL BE CONFUSED.

But until that time, whether we are DF, DA, Inactive or in good standing, we best be reading the scriptures, associating with those who along with Jehovah's spirit can build us up and help us to hold on tight. If we are in a DF, DA state and are attending meetings and cannot talk to anyone then it us up to us to make a decisiosn on how we are going to continue to hold on to Jehovah with every ounce of strength and love that we have for our father and his son.

In the future we have no idea where we may end up. We may not be able to be with our families, we may be alone. If we cannot cope now Gabe, what in the world are we gonna do at that time when the poop hits the big fan.

Come here Gabe, gimme a big hug. Now smack smack upside your head. Pull yourself together my brother, as I will say to you again. DON'T LET ME HAVE TO REACH OUT INTO CYBER SPACE AND TOUCH YOU OK.

Ya know I love ya and you know the scriptures. You will be OK STOP LISTENING TO ANY INNER FEELINGS/EMOTIONS THAT TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT O.K. JEHOVAH LOVES YOU VERY MUCH, YOU WILL BE OK.

Your sister E & E[/b]I know your talking to Gabe, but thanks, you are doing your bit for Jehovah, helping his little sheep. I needed that sister, so thanks......

[panda]

I see everyones point. there are benefits both to going and to not going... i myself find the truth new and therefore i do question things. this is by no means bad in the elders eyes here in wawa. he has actually thanked me for bringing certain subjects up. it gets him thinking, and therefore he has to look things up. like i asked about the memorial and the taking of the bread, and i asked how does one know that they are one of the 144,000? and if i was one (hypothetically) what makes me so special or privileged enough to take of the bread? that got him thinking cause he has been in the truth since childhood he just took it for granted that he was to live on paradise earth. I'm still looking for that answer but i guess i'll find it when i become baptized. i have found that my questions do eventually get answered by ironically enough the watchtower (both study and public) and the awake magazines. usually a month or two later. I know that i'm still learning and i do find some in my congregation to be "holier than thou" but i say to myself..... Jehovah will set it all straight when the day comes. all i can do is keep taking in his knowledge, and to talk to him regularly to ask for his support in all i can do from here on in. and by no means will i ever stop asking questions. an old boss once told me there is no such thing as a stupid question........ if you don't ask you will never find out.


Oakspi.[/b]So encouraging Oakspi, you are indeed very balanced and I'm sure Jehovah will use you to help others, and as I can see those that have been baptized for many years. I hope that there will be many more b/s like yourself coming into the congregations, we need more of you.

Thank you
sister/panda

[Rogue]

I see everyones point. there are benefits both to going and to not going... i myself find the truth new and therefore i do question things. this is by no means bad in the elders eyes here in wawa. he has actually thanked me for bringing certain subjects up. it gets him thinking, and therefore he has to look things up. like i asked about the memorial and the taking of the bread, and i asked how does one know that they are one of the 144,000? and if i was one (hypothetically) what makes me so special or privileged enough to take of the bread? that got him thinking cause he has been in the truth since childhood he just took it for granted that he was to live on paradise earth. I'm still looking for that answer but i guess i'll find it when i become baptized. i have found that my questions do eventually get answered by ironically enough the watchtower (both study and public) and the awake magazines. usually a month or two later. I know that i'm still learning and i do find some in my congregation to be "holier than thou" but i say to myself..... Jehovah will set it all straight when the day comes. all i can do is keep taking in his knowledge, and to talk to him regularly to ask for his support in all i can do from here on in. and by no means will i ever stop asking questions. an old boss once told me there is no such thing as a stupid question........ if you don't ask you will never find out.


Oakspi.[/b]

Hi Oakscove,
I can understand ur reasoning... if you are new to the truth, then the WT Society has some good things to offer, they can give u a good understanding on some biblical truths! Not all they teach is bad, that is for sure! I was a little suprised that u said that all you questiones are answered in time, due to the awake or WT.... one of the elders who payed me a visit the other day, also said that I needed to trust that if I had questions, they would be answered in time at meetings or in the publications... maybe that is true if u have questions that are considered 'baby formula', such as the trinity or stuff like that, but I have questions that are not ever going to be answerd at meetings or in publications, not in a million years, because to give truthfull answers, they need to come to the realisation that they have been led on a bad path! And they will not come to that realisation....

So I can understand that if you are still learning the basisc, that the Society has good things to offer, but I learned about the basics about 15 years ago, I'm passed them! And maybe it is in my own attitude, surely I could go to the meetings and just extract from all the blablabla a few truths that would build me up, but personaly I feel more build up by reading in the Bible for a few hours then attending a meeting, even talking on the board gives me more spiritual food then a meeting... and if one had good relations with their br and sr, that could be a reason for going, but I have a lot of relatives in the congr, and I (mistakenly) told some about my doubts, and they called the elders on me and spread the word in the congr that I was a bad influence and now people shun me, without even asking me what is going on... so I don't have that warm feeling about my loving brs and srs, at the moment I have no reason at all to attend meetings... but maybe I'm letting my personal feelings get in the way of what Jehovah expects from me, I'm not sure at the moment....

[shikinah]

Rogue,
Its very difficult when all of the bad deeds of the watchtower comes to light, then your suppose to associate with people who cause you hurt and pain, its like slow torture and its been 28 years for me and i have to say i have never really been happy in the truth. Even when i did my best i was criticised, never had any true friends, and the few i had left the organisation. Like you said on another thread, it has always felt like the inquisition and a prison without walls. If i honestly said i saw some genuine LOVE i'd be happy to make the most of it, but i dont. I dont have worldly friends, just one or two people like me who are trying to get back, but with great effort. Im just a person who hates hypocracy, elitism, favouritism and big ego's and sad to say its all there at my meetings, ive been to a few but London seems rife with this sort of behaviour.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[Rogue]

Hi dear sister Elizabeth,

U said u have never really been happy in the truth, always felt criticised, never had any true friends, and the few u had left the organisation... it was as if u were describing my life in the truth :)
I understand what u mean... It made me think: everyone on this board probably has similar experiences... maybe we are of a different kind than the other brs and srs... in the beginning we didnt understand why we didnt fit in, why nothing we did helped to get happier in the truth, it was like there was a hole there!

I tried everything: there was a time when I was in the center of the truth sorta speak, I pioneered, I studied and prepared for every meeting, I knew exactely what this months presentation of the magazins was, which scriptures could be used at the door and so on and so forth... I thought if I did that, my doubts would go away and I would become happy in the truth... but the opposite happened, to my grief! I became depressed and couldn't pioneer anymore... I have never ever been happy in the truth, and I never understood what the hole in my hears was, but I knew I was different from the regular brs and srs, they were so happy to put the Gb on a pedestale, they were thankfull for all the manmade laws, they were thankfull that they didn't have to think for themselves anymore, they were happy to let the Gb do all the thinking, they were happy to be a part of the oild machine... and I wassnt! Maybe that was also the reason why I never connected to anyone in any congregation, and I tried to make friends, i realy tried, but we never got passed the "politeness", we never became TRUE friends!

Like I said before, I even lost my belief in Jehovah alltogether at some point... it wassn't until I realised at some moment a few months ago that if there was a truth out there, I could aks Jehovah to show me, and He would, and I prayed that He would, and I started finding little truths in the Bible, and the essays helped me gain more understanding... and I started to understand what the hole in my heart was! I became happy with the 'truth', the REAL truth, and started growing to love Jehovah again... that was what was missing, all this time at the meetings I never grew to love Jehovah, I just grew to resent the Society... we are not of their kind, that is why they see us as apostate, and that is why we were not happy, we scare them with our free minds!

[shikinah]

Rogue,
Thats exactly the feeling a whole in the heart, an emptiness and sad to say that only started to heal when i found this site. Or perhaps it should be happy to say i found this site. It seems the more you feel emotionally the more you suffer within the truth. If you just go along and have no real concern for anything just do whats expected with blinkers, you will succeed. I want to be where people get together and hold special days for the elderly, arrange special trips for single mothers and their little children, share caring moments with those in need, feel like a real family where people look out for one another. Its the ritualistic behaviour and fear of man which has made it pshcological prison. The ones i see suffering are those who sit in silence, i remember when studying my profemme womens health coures, they spoke about women in relationships which supressed their emotional growth and how inside they were damaging their health,because they wernt free to express their pain. This is how i feel about the organisation, and as time go's on the feeling gets worse, is this our torture stake? im not sure anymore, all i know is that i have to keep praying and asking for strength in amongst all this confusion.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[panda]

Rogue,
Thats exactly the feeling a whole in the heart, an emptiness and sad to say that only started to heal when i found this site. Or perhaps it should be happy to say i found this site. It seems the more you feel emotionally the more you suffer within the truth. If you just go along and have no real concern for anything just do whats expected with blinkers, you will succeed. I want to be where people get together and hold special days for the elderly, arrange special trips for single mothers and their little children, share caring moments with those in need, feel like a real family where people look out for one another. Its the ritualistic behaviour and fear of man which has made it pshcological prison. The ones i see suffering are those who sit in silence, i remember when studying my profemme womens health coures, they spoke about women in relationships which supressed their emotional growth and how inside they were damaging their health,because they wernt free to express their pain. This is how i feel about the organisation, and as time go's on the feeling gets worse, is this our torture stake? im not sure anymore, all i know is that i have to keep praying and asking for strength in amongst all this confusion.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]I may be wrong but I feel that there is a real class distinction in the congregations, I have found that those who are born in the truth very different mentality to those that have come in from the world, I have always felt looked down upon, and as you sisters have said one has to conform or virtually be a clone of one another, I have always loved to read and to get my teach into other things besides just the WTS stuff, because I have a varied knowledge of different subjects you get looked down upon as being not like the average bear. I have always felt different and not really part of the JW club, thats what its become like a club for a certain TYPE of JW.

I have always felt alone. Some b/s really try and be Christ like, and they are, but mostly as Elizabeth said they don't do enough if anything for the elderly, or the single ones on their own and others get left out of their cliques. Basically that is what most congregations are groups of little cliques. And I have found everything these days is dumbing us down, fancy having to be told what scriptures to use and how to place magazines, can't stand it. But most love it, they all think the same and after awhile they all start to look and walk the same. The truth can be a very lonely place for people like us because we are different, we think for ourselves sadly its like being in the army, and we have gone AWOL.

[Rogue]

And I have found everything these days is dumbing us down, fancy having to be told what scriptures to use and how to place magazines, can't stand it. But most love it, they all think the same and after awhile they all start to look and walk the same. The truth can be a very lonely place for people like us because we are different, we think for ourselves sadly its like being in the army, and we have gone AWOL.[/b]


Hi sis panda,
I loved ur expression: after awhile they all start to look and walk the same...
This is how I see it: in the truth we are all walking in a line, and most of the people who walk in that line can't be bothered to wonder why the man at the front of the line turns right or left, they are happy to follow and are glad someone else in control of setting directions, reading the map etc... but some people who walk in that line DO care why they turn left or right, they want to make sure they have taken the right exit and are still on the right road, the one that leads to their destination... and my guess is that everyone on this board are people who have taken one step out of that row to examine why the man in front is going left or right, and have taken their own map to dubblecheck they are on the right road... ;)

[Gabriel]

See, I have this constant acheing in my soul...deep within my heart. The meetings dont do anything to bring any real comfort to me. Im left not knowing how to worship God...I mean R E A L Y worship him. I pray before I eat and before I go to bed, but it just kind of stops there.

Im not much of a studier...never have been. I never could understand why genuine Love for Jehovah and living a morally clean life isnt suffecient. pondering of dates, Times, and seasons tends choke that out for me.

I know that im living in a special time in history.

I know the end is close.

I know that things are about to happen.


These things are enough for me. studying them any deeper will not mean salvation for me at all. However my Love for God will and its that Love that I need to focus on. Now as far as the meetings go, for me they are almost unbearable. but I want to prove faithful and not "Leave jeruselem" until the call is given. The problem that im having is tryN to stay possitive about the meetings until then.

I feel that no True Leadership or guidance thats comming from the top amoung other things. Sometimes I have the sensation that Im trudding through mudd pits and if I stop moving then im going under. I just have to keep moving...no matter how slow, just never stop.

How do you guys worship Jehovah?

if you had to make a -PIE CHART- what percentage of your activity constitues worship for you? I know every moment of our lives is considered an act of worship to God. The way we walk,talk, and interact with one another. If you had to list meetings on your
-Pie Chart- what percentage would it fall in as active worship?

Im simply tryN to explore new ways in which I can get the most out of a disfuctional relationship that I have with God.

[Anthony]

See, I have this constant acheing in my soul...deep within my heart. The meetings dont do anything to bring any real comfort to me. Im left not knowing how to worship God...Micah 6:8 I mean R E A L Y worship him. I pray before I eat and before I go to bed, but it just kind of stops there.[/b]

[Cephalon]

Hi my lil brother Gabriel, :wave:

First of all let me give you a big sisterly . :bisou:


You said:

I am still stuggling with this issue...even after all these years.
I've personally lost all trust within the organization. To put it bluntly...I am "Turned Off"
I mean I enjoy seeing others there....but when it all comes down to it, I feel like i am just wandering.

I try to comfort myself by saying that I'll wait for the two witnesses to clear things up but that don't really set right with me either.

Truth is..I don't know what Father wants me to do, or what he expects of me at this time. Do I just set back, pay my taxes and love my neighbor and wait for the two witnesses? This crazy.

I just feel like I am ....floating.

************************************************** ***************

You've lost trust in the org because you as many of us did in the past, put our trust in the org and imperfect men, when we should have been focused on Jehovah and his son. I have been there and done that Gabe. What I have learned after all these years is that the org is the tool/method that was used to gather Jehovah's household and also to feed the sheep. Jehovah sent his son here to die for us, he is the way. JN 14:6.

What we have to understand is that we must separate the tool from the savior. Jesus is the savior, the WTBTS is the tool. I know there are many many illustrations I could use rather than that statement. But that should suffice right?

Jehovah wants us to use the tool for learning that is all. We are to follow the footsteps of his son. We are to obey Jehovah and use discernment in dealing with the tool as Jehovah is allowing all these things to go on until he is ready to take care of it.

This is a time for us to get as close to Jehovah as we can Gabe. No matter what in the world is going on around us inside or outside the org. We must, Gabe we MUST, stay focused on Jehovah and his purpose.

The only one causing all this dumb confusion is the evil one. So many are losing focus and getting caught up in what I refer to now as DUMBSTUFF. Stuff that it has taken me years to learn that Jehovah could care less about.

I hear it in car groups when I am out in service, I hear it in the congs, or at gatherings. JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY.

My focus now is on WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN DOING WHAT JEHOVAH HAS
LEFT ME TO DO. IT IS QUITE SIMPLE now that I understand.

PREACH, TEACH, MAKE SURE, STAY ON THE WATCH, KEEP MYSELF MORALLY CLEAN AND DO NOT BECOME FRIENDS WITH THE WORLD IN ANY FORM OR FASHION.
MOST IMPORTANT TO ME IS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH JEHOVAH, MY FAITH, STANDING FIRM/ ENDURANCE. Why because Jehovah has told us about the difficulties that would be rampant in his household during our time.

You know one of my favorite sayings is "IT AIN'T EASY BUT".............


If I am doing this and spending quality time with Jehovah, using the knowldge he has given me, discernment and good commonsense, well then there is nothing more that I can do. Jehovah will take care of the rest.

What is going on inside now is making my stomach turn, but I will WAIT ON JEHOVAH. I am not leaving until I know it is Jehovah directing me to leave. I believe deep in my heart that when it is time to go NOT ONE OF US WILL HAVE TO ASK. NOT ONE OF US WILL BE CONFUSED.

But until that time, whether we are DF, DA, Inactive or in good standing, we best be reading the scriptures, associating with those who along with Jehovah's spirit can build us up and help us to hold on tight. If we are in a DF, DA state and are attending meetings and cannot talk to anyone then it us up to us to make a decisiosn on how we are going to continue to hold on to Jehovah with every ounce of strength and love that we have for our father and his son.

In the future we have no idea where we may end up. We may not be able to be with our families, we may be alone. If we cannot cope now Gabe, what in the world are we gonna do at that time when the poop hits the big fan.

Come here Gabe, gimme a big hug. Now smack smack upside your head. Pull yourself together my brother, as I will say to you again. DON'T LET ME HAVE TO REACH OUT INTO CYBER SPACE AND TOUCH YOU OK.

Ya know I love ya and you know the scriptures. You will be OK STOP LISTENING TO ANY INNER FEELINGS/EMOTIONS THAT TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT O.K. JEHOVAH LOVES YOU VERY MUCH, YOU WILL BE OK.

Your sister E & E[/b]

WOW!!! What a great post.

[shikinah]

Thank you Panda,
what you said is true, i think you are treated different if you have come out of the world, you have to prove your self more as they dont trust you. You rarely get invited to brother and sisters homes, unless its the group study and thats come to an end. What i find sad is that the word of god has been used for conditioning the mind and heart, instead of being used for the loving purpose it was written for. Love Jehovah with your whole mind heart and soul and your fellow man, but is this really so? can true love be based on so many conditions. How many hours one hands in, who an individual associates with, what an individual wears, how many times you raise a hand. All of this takes away from how true love is suppose to be, and ends up being duplicated people or clone like individuals who nolonger act on emotion or feeling in fear of being ostricised. I pray the new system isnt this way, because sleeping for eternity would be pure bliss.

Elizabeth

[Jinnvisible]

See, I have this constant acheing in my soul...deep within my heart. The meetings dont do anything to bring any real comfort to me. Im left not knowing how to worship God...I mean R E A L Y worship him. I pray before I eat and before I go to bed, but it just kind of stops there.

Im not much of a studier...never have been. I never could understand why genuine Love for Jehovah and living a morally clean life isnt suffecient. pondering of dates, Times, and seasons tends choke that out for me.

.....

Im simply tryN to explore new ways in which I can get the most out of a disfuctional relationship that I have with God.[/b]

Generally, unless people in some way express what you are expressing, I consider them to be false and insincere.

[shikinah]

See, I have this constant acheing in my soul...deep within my heart. The meetings dont do anything to bring any real comfort to me. Im left not knowing how to worship God...I mean R E A L Y worship him. I pray before I eat and before I go to bed, but it just kind of stops there.

Im not much of a studier...never have been. I never could understand why genuine Love for Jehovah and living a morally clean life isnt suffecient. pondering of dates, Times, and seasons tends choke that out for me.

I know that im living in a special time in history.

I know the end is close.

I know that things are about to happen.


These things are enough for me. studying them any deeper will not mean salvation for me at all. However my Love for God will and its that Love that I need to focus on. Now as far as the meetings go, for me they are almost unbearable. but I want to prove faithful and not "Leave jeruselem" until the call is given. The problem that im having is tryN to stay possitive about the meetings until then.

I feel that no True Leadership or guidance thats comming from the top amoung other things. Sometimes I have the sensation that Im trudding through mudd pits and if I stop moving then im going under. I just have to keep moving...no matter how slow, just never stop.

How do you guys worship Jehovah?

if you had to make a -PIE CHART- what percentage of your activity constitues worship for you? I know every moment of our lives is considered an act of worship to God. The way we walk,talk, and interact with one another. If you had to list meetings on your
-Pie Chart- what percentage would it fall in as active worship?

Im simply tryN to explore new ways in which I can get the most out of a disfuctional relationship that I have with God.[/b]


Hi Gabriel,
I like the way you describe trudding through mudd pits, i see it like quick sand you have to avoid certain elements or you go under. As for a pie chart, what contributes to serving Jehovah? The bible mentions our whole heart and mind and works without action is dead. Do i think about Jehovah all day, yes i do, do i read the bible everyday no i dont but i should, do i love people? very much so, do i speak about Jehovah and the world situation yes all the time. We are all individuals in a race for life, its not a race which should be compared to others or measured, but based on individuality.
Does Jehovah want a contrived forced love, based on hours as a mass worship? Once love is measured and restricted it becomes stiffled, suffocating and eventualy dies and if you feel this happening then you need to step back and have a breather. I think this is why the love doesnt seem to flow naturally within the truth, because people feel they have to compete and then resentment and dissappointment sets in. The scriptures say Jehovah is a happy god and we should be able to reflect that, but how can we if we are constantly under pressure to conform. The whole of the commandments hang on two laws, if we never had the bible and it was banned, how would many of these individuals cope, would whats in their hearts be enough to carry them through to the end? I have made myself ill in the past worrying, but you can only do what you are mentally, physically and emotionally able to do and Jehovah knows this. Prayer is powerful, and we should just ask for STRENGTH and endurance, as the song says "one day at a time sweet Jesus" if thats all you can do, so be it. But do it with joy and praise to Jehovah and the lord Jesus Christ other wise everything becomes a big issue and the love we once had is suffocated and dies, then guilt sets in and unworthiness making us prime targets for satans grasp.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[panda]

All we can do is to try and be obedient, to love one another and follow Christs example, we show our love for Jehovah by doing this, Jehovah is Love. We love him because he first loved us.

We show love to our neighbors, the meetings are a good opportunity to show our Christian encouragement to our b/s, they don't know what we know, they are trapped, maybe we will be of use to Jehovah when things start to become obvious that their is trouble in paradise. Its not easy, and will probably get even harder, but prayer and obedience will fortify us.