Wts Hijacked?

[shikinah]

I have been doing some research and one thought has bugged me for some time what im about to say some may find offensive, but others may feel i have a point.
Could Jehovahs religious plan been hijacked?
By that i mean could satan have foreseen Jehovahs religious plan to have his pure worship infultrated from the start? Has their been a dual power struggle of rulership within gods house from day one?
Charles Taze Russell a great man of his time, but we all know the illuminati use the name Jehovah in its 33 degree masonry and know all about the occult. Yet despite his incredible love for Jehovah he states he heard gods voice, saw visions and had an unhealthy obsession with pyramids.
If anyone looks up anything to do with the Golden Dawn, egyptology is part of their initiation

(statement below taken from website)

It seems the occult origins of the word "Watchtower" has been around for a very long time. Did the founders of the WatchTower BTS choose that banner name to reveal the origins of their spirit guides?



A Watchtower is a spirit guardian of one of the four cardinal points (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Cardinal_point) in both ceremonial magic (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Ceremonial_magic) and the neopagan (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Neopagan) religion of Wicca (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Wicca).

Alternately, the Watchtowers are the abodes of the guardians.

Often believed to represent the four elements (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Four_elements), the Watchtowers are invoked during ritual to cast the magic circle (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Magic_circle).

In many Wicca and Witchcraft systems the Watchtowers are evocational symbols of spiritual beings known as the Watchers or the Grigori (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Grigori)

[/color]

In archaic Roman religion, small towers were built at the crossroads, and an altar was set before them upon which offerings were given to nature spirits. Guardian spirits known as Lares (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Lares) were associated with these towers and with demarcation in general, as well as seasonal themes related to agriculture ^{[color=#4682b4][1] (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/#cite_note-0)}. Here we may find a connection between the Lares and the Grigori of Italian Witchcraft. These towers may be the foundation of the "Watchtowers" appearing in the ritual circles of Wiccans and other modern witches.



In the Enochian system of magic, brought to public attention by Dr. John Dee and Edward Kelly in the 16th century, we find the inclusion of Watchtowers as complex evocational designs.

According to Dee's diaries, the two men summoned an angel, which Kelley saw in a magic stone; Dee recorded the revelations which Kelley narrated to him. Among the surviving records of the Angelic Operations is A Book of Supplications and Invocations which "deals with the Invocation of the Angels who preside over the Four Quarters of the Terrestrial sphere."



The Watchtowers were among the Golden Dawn concepts introduced into Wicca (modern witchcraft) by its founder Gerald Gardner (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Gerald_Gardner). The complicated tablets and Enochian names were largely abandoned, but Wicca retained the Watchtowers as "the four cardinal points, regarded as guardians of the Magic Circle".^{[7] (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/#cite_note-6)} They are usually mentioned during the casting of the circle.

(Doesn't the Pope wear the Magic Circle with the four points as insignia on his robe?)



The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn), founded in 1888, combined ideas from many different sources including Rosicrucianism (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Rosicrucianism) and Freemasonry (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Freemasonry), the angelic system of 16th-century magician John Dee (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/John_Dee_(mathematician)) and his assistant Edward Kelley (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Edward_Kelley), Hermetic Qabalah (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah), and recent archaeological discoveries of Egyptian (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Ancient_Egypt) and Greco-Roman (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/wiki/Greco-Roman) magic and religion.




We have also learned those three phrases of terminology that are popular with Enochian Magic, and the Freemasons are "Millennial Dawn", "Golden Age" and "Watchtower." Russell named his organization Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. His earlier magazine was called The Golden Age. Before the name of Jehovah's Witnesses was established the followers of Russell's teachings were known as Russellites and Millennial Dawnist. Not a chance this is coincidence.

Satan knew that true hearted individuals would be drawn to the truth of gods word and Jehovahs name, not only this but where the remaining 144,000 would finally be gathered and from them the two witnesses would arrive. If the man of lawlessness leads the wts into complete apostacy then what will happen to the remaining of the bride class?
The name of our bible "new world translation" now were entering the "new world order"
take a look at this picture on this book called "new age religion" it depicts a huge pyramid, everything linked to charles taze original vision. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...;s=books#reader (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967009804/ref=ase_conspiracyarc-20/104-8924776-1297547?v=glance&s=books#reader)

i hope im wrong but i feel, that we may be lead like lambs to the slaughter, with all this planning for mass anhilation as in the time of the nazi's, is there purpose to wipe out the witnesses, satan knowing that this is where the remnant and two witnesses will be? Satan has used this tactic when he slaughtered thousands of babies when trying to kill moses and Jesus.
We need to stay alert and be on the watch because it seems there is mass destruction ahead.
Another thing i heard today, is that they plan to withdraw every bottle of colloidal silver from all health shops, incase some arnt aware colloidal silver is a natural antibiotic, and known to be one of the only things to combat avian bird flu.
I pray what i feel is wrong, may Jehovah guide us and keep us strong during these wicked times.
(excuse the large print)

Elizabeth

[littleone]

I have been doing some research and one thought has bugged me for some time what im about to say some may find offensive, but others may feel i have a point.
Could Jehovahs religious plan been hijacked?
By that i mean could satan have foreseen Jehovahs religious plan to have his pure worship infultrated from the start? Has their been a dual power struggle of rulership within gods house from day one?
Charles Taze Russell a great man of his time, but we all know the illuminati use the name Jehovah in its 33 degree masonry and know all about the occult. Yet despite his incredible love for Jehovah he states he heard gods voice, saw visions and had an unhealthy obsession with pyramids.
(statement below taken from website)

We have also learned those three phrases of terminology that are popular with Enochian Magic, and the Freemasons are "Millennial Dawn", "Golden Age" and "Watchtower." Russell named his organization Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. His earlier magazine was called The Golden Age. Before the name of Jehovah's Witnesses was established the followers of Russell's teachings were known as Russellites and Millennial Dawnist. Not a chance this is coincidence.

Satan knew that true hearted individuals would be drawn to the truth of gods word and Jehovahs name, not only this but the where the remaining 144,000 would finally be gathered and from them the two witnesses would arrive. If the man of lawlessness leads the wts into complete apostacy then what will happen to the remaining of the bride class?
The name of our bible "new world translation" now were entering the "new world order"
take a look at this picture on this book called "new age religion" it depicts a huge pyramid, everything linked to charles taze original vision. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...;s=books#reader (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967009804/ref=ase_conspiracyarc-20/104-8924776-1297547?v=glance&s=books#reader)

i hope im wrong but i feel, that we may be lead like lambs to the slaughter, with all this planning for mass anhilation as in the time of the nazi's, is there purpose to wipe out the witnesses, satan knowing that this is where the remnant and two witnesses will be? Satan has used this tactic when he slaughtered thousands of babies when trying to kill moses and Jesus.
We need to stay alert and be on the watch because it seems there is mass destruction ahead.
Another thing i heard today, is that they plan to withdraw every bottle of colloidal silver from all health shops, incase some arnt aware colloidal silver is a natural antibiotic, and known to be one of the only things to combat avian bird flu.
I pray what i feel is wrong, may Jehovah guide us and keep us strong during these wicked times.
(excuse the large print)

Elizabeth

</span>[/b]Hi Elizabeth,

No, I don&#39;t think for a minute that Jehovah&#39;s plan was hijacked by Satan. Things always come down to a "point of view". If you look at a human&#39;s point of view, which there are many, things can indeed look perplexing at times. Yet, in many cases, that is because the foundations that we&#39;ve set up as a measuring reference aren&#39;t always what they should be.

For instance, if a human was to think that the Catholic Church was indeed God&#39;s house, then when we consider what has happened to it, it would be easy to come to the conclusion that God&#39;s house was "overcome", "overtaken" or "hijacked" by Satan. Yet, this is because we&#39;re basing our reasonings on a false premise... that the Catholic church is indeed God&#39;s house.

Likewise, with any religion or religious group, we can fall into the same line of reasoning... because we&#39;re always basing our foundation premises on something which is earthly and physical... a religious church or organization. Yet, this is not what the bible teaches us. For it speaks of a "spiritual house", a "spiritual temple", "heavenly Jerusalem". The ones belonging to the "spiritual house" are really no part of this earth at all... even though they reside on earth. Moreover, the head of that spiritual house, Jesus Christ, has already conquered Satan and his system of things.

So does the bible speak about an earthly, physical organization that would be spoken as being "God&#39;s house" during the "last days"? Does it speak about the "spiritual temple", as spoken about in Ephesians 2:19-22, Hebrews 12:22 and 1Peter 2:5 as being replaced with a "physical organization" in these last days? If so, then we must also concede that such an organization was indeed hijacked by Satan... because none exists that was not "overpowered", "overtaken" or "hijacked" by him. For he is the ruler of ALL of them... each and every one. Indeed, the "gates of hades" has overpowered each and every religious earthly organization.

Yet, the bible speaks about Christ&#39;s congregation... but what does he say?

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>Also, I say to you, You are Peter, and on this rock-mass I will build my congregation, and the gates of Ha´des will not overpower it - Matt 16:18[/b][/quote]

You can rest assured that the congregation that Jesus speaks about never was, nor ever will be overpowered by Satan in any way. Why? Because it is no part of this world at all. The "congregation of the firstborn" is a "heavenly congregation". Satan has no hold on it. Sure, he tries and battles with individual members of it while they are here on earth. But these ones conquer him as well by their faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, the organization that these ones belong to can never be overpowered or hijacked by Satan. For these ones do not belong to an organization that can be "felt"... but belong to the "heavenly" one, who are enrolled in the heavens... "heavenly Jerusalem". In such organization, Satan really has no hold whatsoever.

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>For YOU have not approached that which can be felt and which has been set aflame with fire, and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a tempest, 19 and the blare of a trumpet and the voice of words; on hearing which voice the people implored that no word should be added to them. 20 For the command was not bearable to them: “And if a beast touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” 21 Also, the display was so fearsome that Moses said: “I am fearful and trembling.” 22 But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn <span style="color:#0000FF">who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect, 24 and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the blood of sprinkling, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s . - Hebrews 12:18-24[/quote]

So what "point of view" should we have considering these things?

[shikinah]

Thank you Little One,
that was an interesting explanation, are you saying that he has no establishment here on earth to hijack? or perhaps infultrate would be a better word, isnt thats what meant by the man of lawlessness at some point being within gods house? I know gods purpose will always bring forth what is promised, but what i mean by hijacked was in the sense that satan has tried to destroy the earthly arrangement by entering into the hearts of individuals who&#39;s purpose it is to do gods will, some what like how some of the deciples turned against Jesus when tempted by satan. This scripture is very interesting

2 Corinthians 6: 16 "And what agreement does god&#39;s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of the living god, just as god said "i shall reside amoung them and walk amongst them, and i shall be their god and they shall be my people" 17 therefore get out from amoung them and seperate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing" "and i will take you in" So does this scripture relate to what you are saying, about a temple of a living god? and the scripture which speaks about Jesus, when he says i can knock this temple down and build another in three days, which was his spiritual body as a temple?

Elizabeth

[watchman]

The prophecies are pretty clear, at least to me, that Christ&#39;s congregation is infiltrated by enemy agents. For example, the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of The God. Jesus&#39; letters to the congregations in Revelation acknowledge the fact that there are evil influences from within; specifically, a Balaam and Jezebel faction as well as a sect of Nicholaus. The prophecy of Jeremiah, which finds its ultimate fulfillment "in the final part of the days" foretells that evil men are to infilterate God&#39;s nation, like birdcatchers who are crouching down to escape detection.

Look at the superfine apostles in the Corinthian congregation. Paul came out and said point blank that they were from the Devil. Look at Judas, he was as close to Jesus as any man and yet he was a mere pawn of the Devil. The way it works, is that, whoever are God&#39;s people at any given time the Devil will try his best to over-reach and influence them from within. That is the way it was, and is presently, and will be up until the time of the harvest. That is when the weeds are bundled up and incinerated and the angels will simply not allow faithless and wicked men to enter into the organization after the purge.

watchman

[littleone]

Thank you Little One,
that was a really clear explanation, never really looked at it from that angle before. Who are the congregations in Revelations which Jesus speakes about? the ones in ephesus etc?

Elizabeth[/b]It is quite obvious that these congregations are not literal physical congregations... but rather "representative" of something else. Or if that was the case, then we should be looking for the physical congregations in Ephesus, Philadelphia, etc. But we don&#39;t look for those physical congregations, do we? Therefore, they represent similar congregations and situations that Jehovah&#39;s anointed find themselves in during these last days. Yet, not everyone that is in those congregations mentioned are really apart of the "spiritual house", are they? No. Because you see ones there that are "false apostles", "Jezebel like", and those of the "sect of Nicolaus", "teachings of Balaam", "synagogue of Satan", etc. Yet, Jehovah&#39;s true anointed are there as well. Yet, nowhere in the scriptures does it mention that those congregations in Revelation are actually "Jehovah&#39;s Organization", or "Jehovah&#39;s house".

By now we should be able to discern a pattern. For instance, what really is the Catholic Church? Isn&#39;t it really the physical house that was set up from the days of early Christianity... dating back to the apostles? This is at least what the Catholic Church claims. As a matter of fact, they can date back all their Popes right back to Peter. Therefore, this is why they claim that they&#39;re the only true Church... because their "point of view" is only on that which is physical.

Yet, the truth of the matter is that Satan will eventually gain control of any religious organization that is formed... because these organizations are earthly, and have nothing to do with the heavenly at all. So sure... the original anointed (apostles, et al) formed physical congregations... yet, Satan eventually gained control over those congregations, because they were earthly and physical. Likewise today too, if we consider Russell and the earlier bible students as being Jehovah&#39;s anointed, did not what they create also become under Satan&#39;s control? Yet, the reason is clear and simple as to why this happens.... because Jehovah&#39;s house, or his heavenly organization, is really no part of this world at all. Sure, Jehovah&#39;s anointed may reside for awhile in these various earthly organizations... but this does not mean that these earthly organizations that are formed ever actually become "Jehovah&#39;s organization". Because his organization is heavenly.

Likewise, in the congregations mentioned in Revelation, Jehovah&#39;s anointed resided in these as well. They are there as a light of a lamp. Yet, these congregations, although they may have been likened to seven mountains of faith, because of who resided there namely Jehovah&#39;s anointed, does not in fact mean that they were Jehovah&#39;s earthly Organization. Rather, those who belonged to Jehovah&#39;s heavenly organization for a time find themselves residing in these congregations... as alien residents. Yet, within these congregations, those belonging to Jehovah are from the vine of Christ, while those belonging to Satan are from the vine of the earth. Both intermingled... until the harvest.

[shikinah]

The prophecies are pretty clear, at least to me, that Christ&#39;s congregation is infiltrated by enemy agents. For example, the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of The God. Jesus&#39; letters to the congregations in Revelation acknowledge the fact that there are evil influences from within; specifically, a Balaam and Jezebel faction as well as a sect of Nicholaus. The prophecy of Jeremiah, which finds its ultimate fulfillment "in the final part of the days" foretells that evil men are to infilterate God&#39;s nation, like birdcatchers who are crouching down to escape detection.

Look at the superfine apostles in the Corinthian congregation. Paul came out and said point blank that they were from the Devil. Look at Judas, he was as close to Jesus as any man and yet he was a mere pawn of the Devil. The way it works, is that, whoever are God&#39;s people at any given time the Devil will try his best to over-reach and influence them from within. That is the way it was, and is presently, and will be up until the time of the harvest. That is when the weeds are bundled up and incinerated and the angels will simply not allow faithless and wicked men to enter into the organization after the purge.

watchman[/b]

Ok, i do understand that, as that scripture cannot relate to anything else but the wts where it speaks of the "man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of the god" and "the" god can only be Jehovah.

Elizabeth

[noname]

These occult society&#39;s have been apart of every religion in the modern and post modern age. They purposely mix all forms of religion together in hope of one day forming a One World Religion.
My current belief is that Russell was a researcher that found he could start his own religion with more pure teachings of the scriptures. Where all other forms of Christianity was taken. Of coarse being apart of these occultist societies led into a mixing of some of these ideals in with the pure christian teachings.
Soon after they cleaned up alot of this, but still the "operation of error" talked about in the new testament was allowed to persist in the christian congregation down to this day.

[littleone]

The prophecies are pretty clear, at least to me, that Christ&#39;s congregation is infiltrated by enemy agents. For example, the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of The God. Jesus&#39; letters to the congregations in Revelation acknowledge the fact that there are evil influences from within; specifically, a Balaam and Jezebel faction as well as a sect of Nicholaus. The prophecy of Jeremiah, which finds its ultimate fulfillment "in the final part of the days" foretells that evil men are to infilterate God&#39;s nation, like birdcatchers who are crouching down to escape detection.

Look at the superfine apostles in the Corinthian congregation. Paul came out and said point blank that they were from the Devil. Look at Judas, he was as close to Jesus as any man and yet he was a mere pawn of the Devil. The way it works, is that, whoever are God&#39;s people at any given time the Devil will try his best to over-reach and influence them from within. That is the way it was, and is presently, and will be up until the time of the harvest. That is when the weeds are bundled up and incinerated and the angels will simply not allow faithless and wicked men to enter into the organization after the purge.

watchman[/b]
Yup, that is another viewpoint that the scriptures use. Jesus talks about the wheat and the weeds residing together. Yet, one belongs to the heavenly vine, and the other belongs to the vine of the earth. Unfortunately, the wheat and the weeds must reside together and be intermingled until the harvest. Also, the pattern seems to hold true that Satan&#39;s seed always gets control of that which is physical... much like they did with the original congregations that eventually became the Catholic Church. Satan then always uses that which is physical and points to it as the "gates of God".

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>Thank you Little One,
that was a really clear explanation, never really looked at it from that angle before. Who are the congregations in Revelations which Jesus speakes about? the ones in ephesus etc?

Elizabeth[/b]It is quite obvious that these congregations are not literal physical congregations... but rather "representative" of something else. Or if that was the case, then we should be looking for the physical congregations in Ephesus, Philadelphia, etc. But we don&#39;t look for those physical congregations, do we? Therefore, they represent similar congregations and situations that Jehovah&#39;s anointed find themselves in during these last days. Yet, not everyone that is in those congregations mentioned are really apart of the "spiritual house", are they? No. Because you see ones there that are "false apostles", "Jezebel like", and those of the "sect of Nicolaus", "teachings of Balaam", "synagogue of Satan", etc. Yet, Jehovah&#39;s true anointed are there as well. Yet, nowhere in the scriptures does it mention that those congregations in Revelation are actually "Jehovah&#39;s Organization", or "Jehovah&#39;s house".

By now we should be able to discern a pattern. For instance, what really is the Catholic Church? Isn&#39;t it really the physical house that was set up from the days of early Christianity... dating back to the apostles? This is at least what the Catholic Church claims. As a matter of fact, they can date back all their Popes right back to Peter. Therefore, this is why they claim that they&#39;re the only true Church... because their "point of view" is only on that which is physical.

Yet, the truth of the matter is that Satan will eventually gain control of any religious organization that is formed... because these organizations are earthly, and have nothing to do with the heavenly at all. So sure... the original anointed (apostles, et al) formed physical congregations... yet, Satan eventually gained control over those congregations, because they were earthly and physical. Likewise today too, if we consider Russell and the earlier bible students as being Jehovah&#39;s anointed, did not what they create also become under Satan&#39;s control? Yet, the reason is clear and simple as to why this happens.... because Jehovah&#39;s house, or his heavenly organization, is really no part of this world at all. Sure, Jehovah&#39;s anointed may reside for awhile in these various earthly organizations... but this does not mean that these earthly organizations that are formed ever actually become "Jehovah&#39;s organization". Because his organization is heavenly.

Likewise, in the congregations mentioned in Revelation, Jehovah&#39;s anointed resided in these as well. They are there as a light of a lamp. Yet, these congregations, although they may have been likened to seven mountains of faith, because of who resided there namely Jehovah&#39;s anointed, does not in fact mean that they were Jehovah&#39;s earthly Organization. Rather, those who belonged to Jehovah&#39;s heavenly organization for a time find themselves residing in these congregations... as alien residents. Yet, within these congregations, those belonging to Jehovah are from the vine of Christ, while those belonging to Satan are from the vine of the earth. Both intermingled... until the harvest.

[/b][/quote]


Thank you Littleone, but some of these things wernt obvious at all, cant remember learning most of this at meetings, maybe i dozed off. I really did think the congregations represented the churches of to day, i knew they wernt literally located in these places, but featured like for example catholic, pentecostal, sevenday adventist etc, christian congregations, glad i did this post because just as you think you know theres always something else :icon_neutral:

[shikinah]

These occult society&#39;s have been apart of every religion in the modern and post modern age. They purposely mix all forms of religion together in hope of one day forming a One World Religion.
My current belief is that Russell was a researcher that found he could start his own religion with more pure teachings of the scriptures. Where all other forms of Christianity was taken. Of coarse being apart of these occultist societies led into a mixing of some of these ideals in with the pure christian teachings.
Soon after they cleaned up alot of this, but still the "operation of error" talked about in the new testament was allowed to persist in the christian congregation down to this day.[/b]

Thank you Noname,
yes it seems satan makes whats evil seem appealing, i think these satanic esoteric cults were practiced as if a normal religion but among the elite, while its these very ones which had the finances to start religion. But whats very sad is that 99.9999 of people dont have a clue, including and especially those in the wts, all they know is the word "christendom"

Elizabeth

[littleone]

Ok, i do understand that, as that scripture cannot relate to anything else but the wts where it speaks of the "man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of the god" and "the" god can only be Jehovah.

Elizabeth[/b]Since it was discussed above that Jehovah&#39;s house is really the "heavenly house", which Satan has no hold of whatsoever, we can easily come to the understanding that the "temple of God" that the "man of lawlessness" sits in is not that which Satan cannot overreach, but that which he can overreach. Those spoken as of being Jehovah&#39;s anointed are themselves stones of the spiritual temple. Yet, these ones are still on earth in the flesh. Therefore, the only aspect that Satan canl try to overreach is that which is fleshly and physical. Therefore, the "man of lawlessness" sits himself within those of Jehovah&#39;s anointed that are still in the flesh... thereby sitting himself within the "temple of God", because he sits himself within these ones who are still in the flesh... Jehovah&#39;s anointed. He certainly does not belong to Jehovah&#39;s seed... but to Satan&#39;s seed. Yet, he is intermingled with the "true wheat" until the manifestation of Christ&#39;s presence. Yet, these ones always do the same thing... they sit themselves as head, publicly declaring themselves to be gods... showing themselves as being the gatekeepers to the "gates to God". They&#39;re the ones that make a celebrated name for themselves.

[diamondiiz]

The first century Christians had a basic start just like a religion where there was a group of men assigned to guide them. The Christian movement was small and needed to be weaned. But to me it was not supposed to be a religion (man run organization), but was to be a spiritual temple. So at first new in faith needed guidance by men until the truth was established and the bible complete the spiritual temple would have been the final destination for men to seek out. As time progressed, men seeked out not spiritual temple but a physical temple and were stuck in following men - religion. That&#39;s why there wasn&#39;t an organization on earth that could claim to be pure true Christianity after the first century apostles died. Charles Russell was no better then any other missionary man. He learned much from seventh day Adventists and one could almost say that he created a sect or a movement that would follow his teachings and the following leaders did likewise. Russell exaterated things, and included Egyptian ideas in his teachings - were they innocent or were they on purpose taught by him for his self benefit? I don&#39;t know and I dont know if anyone can say for sure. Facts are that he was involved in looking for dates, did exaterate his world missionary work and lied in court. Was he lead by spirit? Everyone can make up their minds about the men according to his teachings and by his actions in courts.

Jesus said that the devil would sow the weeds amongs the wheat and one couldn&#39;t tell the difference until the harvest time. So to me the ones that are of spiritual nature will seek the spiritual temple and may be anywheres on earth within any "christian" religion or ones not recognizing religion (organization lead by man) at all. WTS to me is another religion that has many captives within it&#39;s grasp and like every other religion it is lead by men forcing their ideas upon it&#39;s followers. Difference is that it may be more prominant in nature teaching ideas that are more based on bible than other religions but at the same time teaching lies which are snares to spiritual seekers. Personally it&#39;s like an angel of light appearing to be of goodness but deadly when truth is revealed. That is why when anyone dares to point out the fraud and lies it pushes on it&#39;s subjects these individuals face major wrath of the religion - dissfellowshipping on bases of "apostasy" and loss of family and friends. The religion will twist scripture to paint a spiritual truth seeker into satanist and opposer of God. And how much easier is it to do so when the religion adopted God&#39;s name as if it was bestowed upon them by the Almighty? Yes, I feel that WTS has enslaved a lot of God seeking people in it&#39;s realm and to me can be compared to the time when Babylon conquered Jerusalem and took in Jewish captives. The many within it&#39;s fold still a spiritual people and seeking truth but many accept the lies for truth and become fenatical in obediance to teachings of men. When WTS finally does collapse, be it at the same time as all other religions or not, many will leave it&#39;s realm of control but will they be stumbled by falsehoods like those that were freed from Babylon who took on foreign wifes? Will those released continue following worthless dating and seeking guidance of men? How many will seek the spiritual truths that won&#39;t be dogmatic in nature set by men? IMO when Christ does cleanse the house the weed class will be quite noticable from those that are wheats seeking truths on God&#39;s word not on man&#39;s.

So Jehovah&#39;s way of worship wasn&#39;t hijacked but men chose to follow other men which is the time when Satan sowed the weeds amongst the wheats. Hopefully in near future the true wheat class will be revealed.

[Utuna]

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"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[littleone]

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"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J&#39;ai pétri de la boue et j&#39;en ai fait de l&#39;or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S&#39;il m&#39;a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c&#39;est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton
[/b]
Hi Utuna,

But not at all. As I have explained in other posts, Jesus Christ himself is the great doorkeeper to the Kingdom, and it is ONLY THROUGH him that one is allowed entrance into it. Muslims, Jews, Heathens, etc will all have to put faith in Jesus Christ to gain acceptance. Likewise, those worshiping Jehovah must worship him in spirit and in truth to be a part of his house. There are no exceptions in this matter... nor do I teach of any.

As for giving an answer without drawing from scripture, wouldn&#39;t that prove futile? For it is inspired by Jehovah for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight. Jesus himself gave answers from the scriptures. Yet, one cannot assume he has any knowledge from God whatsoever, unless its by Holy Spirit. We can learn about him from scripture, but we cannot KNOW him unless it is THROUGH and ONLY THROUGH Jesus Christ. (John 14:6). Yet, apart from Christ, we have nothing and walk in sin.

“No one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him” - Luke 10:22[/b]

[shikinah]

Thank you Diamondiiz,

yes charles Russell was like any other man, i think the confusion comes from years of being taught from the wts that its gods chosen people and a spiritual paradise of protection, what reason would you have to ever believe that infultration would happen, especially to the level of joining the UN, individuals yes, but as a society thats a lot to take in.

Elizabeth