The Wild Beast

[shikinah]

I was browsing the official site of JW's, seeing what they still have on the UN, then i noticed when i entered into the search box "wild beast" nothing comes up, i also looked at their leaflets on The last days, there is no mention of wild beast or UN. If i wasnt a witness, i would not be able to tell that the UN was the wild beast, as information is no longer available. Could someone else please check this out, maybe its just that i cant find anything on these subjects.

http://www.jehovantodistajat.fi/e/200804/article_01.htm



Elizabeth

[shikinah]

Yes i found this, but know where does it mention about the UN as the wild beast, just government with 666. It seems like the new and upto date info on the site says nothing negative about the UN, not even the revelation backs amoungst the books for sale.

I have just come back from my search and found this section.


The beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers.* (http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm#fnt1) (Revelation 17:10-13 (http://java%20script:showCitedScripture()) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction.

Soon, though, an amazing event will take place. “The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16 (http://java%20script:showCitedScripture()) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her! What will prompt this action? The Bible book of Revelation answers: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (Revelation 17:17 (http://java%20script:showCitedScripture()) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.

What must you do if you do not want to share the fate of false religion? “Get out of her, my people,” urges God’s messenger. (Revelation 18:4 (http://java%20script:showCitedScripture()) Indeed, now is the time to flee from false religion! But to where can you flee? Not into atheism, since its future is also bleak. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (http://java%20script:showCitedScripture()) The only haven is within true religion. How can you identify true religion?



Notice they use the word political powers, but not mention of the wild beast being the United Nations.





http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040401/article_02.htm

[watchman]

The Watchtower's website is a joke, pretty much. They intentionally don't have anything very deep involving prophetic interpretation, which is just as well considering that most of it is misleading anyway. They are sort of in an awkward position in that respect. On the one hand they discourage JW's from using the Internet, especially in researching anything having to do with their teachings. On the other hand, though, they feel pressured to use the world's most powerful information delivery system to reach out to non-JW's. So, they have designed their website to present bland and stale fare for JW's so that there is no incentive for JW's to even go to the WT website and at the same time they provide basic info that non-JW's might find informative.

watchman

[shikinah]

The Watchtower's website is a joke, pretty much. They intentionally don't have anything very deep involving prophetic interpretation, which is just as well considering that most of it is misleading anyway. They are sort of in an awkward position in that respect. On the one hand they discourage JW's from using the Internet, especially in researching anything having to do with their teachings. On the other hand, though, they feel pressured to use the world's most powerful information delivery system to reach out to non-JW's. So, they have designed their website to present bland and stale fare for JW's so that there is no incentive for JW's to even go to the WT website and at the same time they provide basic info that non-JW's might find informative.

watchman[/b]


Your so right, ive seen other religious sites which tell you more about the world events and upto date prophesies taking place. If they want to attract worldly people then at least provide something to get your teeth into. But they have definately phased out any negativity to do with the UN, with no mention of them on the actual site as them being the wild beast.

Elizabeth

[noname]

I remember reading one of your commentaries that said something about this.
You'd think they would be encouraging JW's to have websites about our faith. You know to reach more people, right? So now their is 100's of apostate sites and 1 JW site? It really doesn't make any sense, seeing as were suppose to be reaching as many people as possible and the message is suppose to be "urgent". The internet is the best way to reach the masses these days, the more people on the internet in support of Jehovahs Kingdom, the better. Instead it is almost like everyone has been silenced!

Like you were saying their must be some unwholesome "fear" that they have in this regard.

Does anyone else have any comments on this?


Notice they use the word political powers, but not mention of the wild beast being the United Nations. [/b]

White Wash?

[shikinah]

I remember reading one of your commentaries that said something about this.
You'd think they would be encouraging JW's to have websites about our faith. You know to reach more people, right? So now their is 100's of apostate sites and 1 JW site? It really doesn't make any sense, seeing as were suppose to be reaching as many people as possible and the message is suppose to be "urgent". The internet is the best way to reach the masses these days, the more people on the internet in support of Jehovahs Kingdom, the better. Instead it is almost like everyone has been silenced!

Like you were saying their must be some unwholesome "fear" that they have in this regard.

Does anyone else have any comments on this?


Notice they use the word political powers, but not mention of the wild beast being the United Nations. [/b]

White Wash?
[/b]

Hey maybe they rejoined the UN on the quiet, thats why the literature features them in a different light.. :cool04:
I was just thinking, the UN eventually will not be seen as a political power, but as a world religious centre gods kingdom on earth, they are becoming the green gaia/god/goddess. So when people eventually think of the UN they wont see it as poltical power it once was.

Elizabeth

[shikinah]

THE OCEANS: Large sections of ocean are overfished. A report by the United Nations Environment Programme says that "70 percent of marine fisheries are so exploited that reproduction cannot or can just barely keep up." For example, populations of cod, hake, haddock, and flounder in the North Atlantic fell by as much as 95 percent between 1989 and 1994. If this continues, what will it mean for millions who depend on the sea as a major source of their food?

Can We Save Our Environment?

Various organizations have also been sounding the alarm about threats to the environment. These include the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization; the United Nations Environment Programme; and Greenpeace. Some merely report on environmental problems as they happen to relate to their work. Others are dedicated to the cause of keeping environmental issues to the fore. Greenpeace is well-known for sending activists to environmental hot spots and attracting public attention to such matters as global warming, endangered species, and dangers of genetically modified animals and plants.

The United Nations Children's Fund has expressed confidence that "the pall that these abuses . . . have cast on lives around the globe can be lifted." This organization says that the terrible conditions these unfortunate billions currently have to endure are "neither inevitable nor immutable." In fact, it has issued a call for "all people to realize a new world within a single generation." This, it hopes, will be a world in which all humankind will be "freed from poverty and discrimination, freed from violence and disease."

Those expressing such sentiments draw inspiration from the fact that even now caring people do a tremendous work to alleviate the sad consequences of "a seemingly unending string of conflicts and crises." For example, over the past 15 years, the Chernobyl Children's Project "has helped to lessen the suffering of hundreds of children affected by the cancers which the nuclear cloud left in its wake." (The Irish Examiner, April 4, 2000) Aid agencies large and small certainly do make a huge difference in the lives of the countless victims of war and disaster.

Why isnt the wts stating the evil intent of these groups, there pretense of caring for individuals, their link to the satanic lucis trust, their plan to wipe out the witnesses..other religious denominations expose them, but now of late the wts praises their efforts..very worrying signs.

[shira]

I was not raised as a Witness, but some of my first exposure to the organization was reading books and materials my grandparents and parents had. There was also one book called something like, Your Will Be Done on Earth, and I think this is the title of a book which I valued very much as a starving one. It was written in the 1950's and had some information that even I recognized as outdated, but what it did talk about (if I remember correctly; if it was not that book it was another of different title) how bad, bad, bad the Leage of Nations/United Nations was. I understood this teaching and believed it, because of all the things from my time (1980's and 90's) that even I could see the U.N. was trying to set itself up as replacement of God and was mixed up in pagan religious business, etc. and I could understand from the prophecies where this all might lead in our day.

Well anyway, then in the 2000's to go towards the Witnesses, and read in their booklets they give, such different ways of speaking about the UN! They were constantly mentioning this in their articles, as a source of authority and information and activity in the world worthy for Jehovah's people to cite and reference and advertise! It was like day to night difference. I can suppose that for those who have been members through all these decades the changes have happened so gradually that they do not notice it much, and for new ones coming in from the world there is nothing that stands out as unusual in all these mentions of the U.N. anyway. To me though it was one of the red flags that made me look into matters further.

Love,
Shira

[shikinah]

Shira,
you were very observant i never took notice until i started to look more into the origin of the UN. And i knew while studying the UN was bad, but not as horrendous as i have discovered. It shows how satan doesnt do things in your face, its like a metamorphesis in change that very few could ever notice. This is extremely worrying, to me its one of the most worrying signs i have seen, because we can see the wts has an ulteria motif. And what ever happend back when they joined the UN, was a major turning point from that time things have changed. They must have been given instructions as to upcoming events. With their UN advertising campaign, still the mention of the commedable works that the UN and green peace do, they have jumped on the banwagon with this save the earth campaign. We are very slowly being introduced to this new world order. I just hope the wts doesnt become the disgusting thing standing in the holy place, because it has become so shameless in its actions.


Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[gertie]

Hi

Hey maybe they rejoined the UN on the quiet, thats why the literature features them in a different light[/b]

found this while i was browsing around the site.


Just found this on Perimeno's site, thought it would be if interest.

Just some information I recently came across, the Watchtower is still an NGO registered with OSCE. This OSCE conference occurred just this month. http://www.osce.org/conferences/hdim_2007.html

Scroll down to NGOs. JW associated NGOs are numbers 10, 93, 94, 243 and 328.
http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2007...586_en.pdf[/b]

It is very obvious WTBTS are still NGOs


I can suppose that for those who have been members through all these decades the changes have happened so gradually that they do not notice it much, and for new ones coming in from the world there is nothing that stands out as unusual in all these mentions of the U.N. anyway. To me though it was one of the red flags that made me look into matters further.[/b]
It's a bit like ageing, you don't realise until you look at old photos's and then it's aaaaaaggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
it's all been so gradual..bummer
xx

[shikinah]

Thanks Gerti,
they simply cant help themselves lol. Yeah its also like the cooked frog syndrome. Its placed in cold water and heated slowly till its eventually cooked :o without him knowing.

Elizabeth x

[Cephalon]

Hi

It is very obvious WTBTS are still NGOs[/b]

Sigh!!!

The WT is and has always being a NGO = Non Govermental Organization

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>Hi

It is very obvious WTBTS are still NGOs[/b]

Sigh!!!

The WT is and has always being a NGO = Non Govermental Organization
[/b][/quote]


When you think of that status its quite strange "NGO" non govermental organisation" yet they still have to abide by their rules and regulations when it comes to promoting their name "United Nations"
:icon_neutral:

[panda]

I remember reading one of your commentaries that said something about this.
You&#39;d think they would be encouraging JW&#39;s to have websites about our faith. You know to reach more people, right? So now their is 100&#39;s of apostate sites and 1 JW site? It really doesn&#39;t make any sense, seeing as were suppose to be reaching as many people as possible and the message is suppose to be "urgent". The internet is the best way to reach the masses these days, the more people on the internet in support of Jehovah&#39;s Kingdom, the better. Instead it is almost like everyone has been silenced!

Like you were saying their must be some unwholesome "fear" that they have in this regard.

Does anyone else have any comments on this?


Notice they use the word political powers, but not mention of the wild beast being the United Nations. [/b]

White Wash?
[/b]In the 2009 year book under Highlights of the past year. (page 6-7) states "Good News" On the Internet, and says that some have come into the truth by viewing their literature on their Jw. website. another sub heading " Finding The Truth On the Internet" gives examples how a guy called Byron logged on to the site after someone witnessed to him at school and bingo he got the truth.

Says could only be Jehovah&#39;s spirit.

about the WT not putting any input about the UN being the best, I think is because they have dug themselves a hole and are trying to sweep the adultery under the carpet, they don&#39;t want to bring it up.

The 2009 DC talk that was downloaded onto this forum "Are you ready for the finish line" really says a lot as to where their mind is, they are in damage mode, the whole talk was fear, getting the b/s in fear of Armageddon, nothing encouraging at all, just put downs after put downs. How do they expect people to want to come into the organization with fear tactics, I can only imagine what new ones in the audience would have thought? I would have run a mile. I think they are only interested in numbers, image, and sustaining the status quo. Terrible situation, and will only get worst, fell so sorry for the b/s.

[stayawake]

These are magazines the WT would love you to forget since they became friends with the enemy. The book of James would call these brothers Adultresses James 4:4

Being they are no longer virgins , they no longer would be part of the Bride class, so one wants to be very careful. We have the weeds or Satans seed that has entered Gods Temple. 2Thess2:1-12 Rev 2:9 Rev 3:9 ( Please read.)
We are told here that this apostasy would come before the presence of Christ. Well here we are.


Watchtower quotes:

"...Jehovah&#39;s witnesses recognize the United Nations as disgusting to God..." (The Watchtower 3/1/67 p. 157)

"...&#39;the disgusting thing that causes desolation&#39;...is the United Nations." (Kingdom Ministry 8/94 p. 5-6)

"[The UN] is really a &#39;conspiracy,&#39; yes, a conspiracy against the precious interests of God&#39;s Kingdom by Christ."-The Watchtower 12/15/83 p. 22

"The UN is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of God’s Messianic Kingdom by his Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ" (Revelation book p. 248-51)

"The United Nations organization today. It is the same as the &#39;scarlet-colored wild beast&#39; of Revelation chapter 17." (The Watchtower 2/1/79 p. 26)

"[The UN is] &#39;a scarlet-colored wild beast&#39; that is the image of Satan&#39;s bloodstained political system." (Mankind&#39;s Search for God p. 370)

"There it is, the United Nations, acting in defiance of the Prince of Peace, earth&#39;s rightful Ruler, the Lord Jesus Christ..." (The Watchtower 1/15/77 p. 44)

"...anti-Christ schemes for peace such as the organization of the United Nations." (The Watchtower 8/1/56 p. 462-3)

"[The UN serves] as a mouthpiece for satanic propaganda." (The Watchtower 6/15/61 p. 360)

"Satan has his signs and wonders, foremost of which is the United Nations organization with its headquarters in New York city." (The Watchtower 3/1/59 p. 150)

"This substitute, the product of Satan&#39;s jealousy, which is a disgusting thing in God&#39;s sight, which arouses resentment in Jehovah God, which desolates the people&#39;s faith in God&#39;s kingdom and which will eventually cause their destruction, is none other than that scheme of modern man, a world association of nations, first making its appearance as the League of Nations and then as the United Nations organization." (The Watchtower 12/1/52 p. 714)

Roberts Book has a chapter in it called "Strange Bedfellows" which is well worth reading.
love stayawake

[shikinah]

"arouses resentment in Jehovah God"
They themselves said this with their own mouth, but their actions prove false. They cause Jehovah to feel jealousy, betrayal, resentment and hurt.
This is the "great apostacy" which they themselves blame others of..they are the image of the nation of israel a stiff necked people.

Elizabeth

[shira]

Shira,
you were very observant i never took notice until i started to look more into the origin of the UN. And i knew while studying the UN was bad, but not as horrendous as i have discovered. It shows how satan doesnt do things in your face, its like a metamorphesis in change that very few could ever notice. This is extremely worrying, to me its one of the most worrying signs i have seen, because we can see the wts has an ulteria motif. And what ever happend back when they joined the UN, was a major turning point from that time things have changed. They must have been given instructions as to upcoming events. With their UN advertising campaign, still the mention of the commedable works that the UN and green peace do, they have jumped on the banwagon with this save the earth campaign. We are very slowly being introduced to this new world order. I just hope the wts doesnt become the disgusting thing standing in the holy place, because it has become so shameless in its actions.


Sisterly Love
Elizabeth[/b]

Thank you, though I am not observant I think and that&#39;s my point. Only due to my probably uncommon circumstances (having read old wt materials before being exposed to the current teachings) did it even raise a question in my mind against the present day organization. I wonder too about all the people who are very suspicious of the U.N. but who are not in the truth otherwise. This may help them see and accept the whole truth as things begin happening more intensely. It really reminds me how we must love all of these people as Jehovah would love them and desire them. There are so many upheavals to come, and it is so important that we love and value nothing, nothing but Jehovah and his plan.
Love,
Shira

[Rogue]

Just found this on Perimeno&#39;s site, thought it would be if interest.

Just some information I recently came across, the Watchtower is still an NGO registered with OSCE. This OSCE conference occurred just this month. http://www.osce.org/conferences/hdim_2007.html

Scroll down to NGOs. JW associated NGOs are numbers 10, 93, 94, 243 and 328.
http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2007...586_en.pdf[/b]

It is very obvious WTBTS are still NGOs
[/b]

Yep and mr Gillies is on the list as well, nr 87! His emailadress is on there too, we could all send him emails asking him why he was still registered as an NGO in 2007! :P I don&#39;t think he will appreciate that!! lol
[b]Press Officer E-mail: paul.gillies@bigfoot.com</div>
</span></span>OK a serious note: &#39;JW&#39;s are on that list like 5 or 6 times, as an NGO... but NGO means Non Governmental Organisation... does this automaticly mean they are still a NGO member of the UN, or does it just mean that they wanted to attend that event, but are not a governmental organisation and where therefor under the list of NGO&#39;s? I&#39;m just wondering if this is solid proof that they are still a NGO member of the UN!

[stayawake]

When one takes note of the dates when those WT quotes were made, one can see that Jehovah God seen to it while there was still loyal brothers in the writing dept, that He Jehovah got this vital information out to us, way ahead of time ,before the weeds had complete control in the writing.

One can find food for our day that was written as far back as 50 years ago, by the faithful wheat class..
Most are asleep now and the eleventh hour workers that have come in since then, have left or were put out because of their loyalty to the Truth.

Praise Jah & His son Christ Jesus

[gertie]

but NGO means Non Governmental Organisation... does this automaticly mean they are still a NGO member of the UN, or does it just mean that they wanted to attend that event, but are not a governmental organisation and where therefor under the list of NGO&#39;s? I&#39;m just wondering if this is solid proof that they are still a NGO member of the UN![/b]

To me the important thing is that they were there at all... NGOs or not.
If I went to an election rally and stood up and spouted off about how good that particular party was, surely I would expect a committee meeting so I could be &#39;dealt with&#39;.

MATTHEW 4:8 - 11 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 (http://) and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me." 10 (http://) Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, &#39;It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.&#39;" 11 (http://) Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

ONE ACT OF WORSHIP THAT&#39;S ALL THAT WAS NEEDED.

It&#39;s a blatant case of don&#39;t do as I do, do as I say.
xx

[stayawake]

(Quote from gertie)
It&#39;s a blatant case of don&#39;t do as I do, do as I say.( End of quote)

Dear gertie
I am so glad you see that, you must be" faithful in little to be faithful in much." The above statement is absolutely true. The friends are forbidden to join the YMCA even if its for health reasons such as water aerobics and swimming for arthritis, yet they can sleep with Gods enemy.
Personally I call this a abomination.,

Jehovah does not change, his principles remain the same. His people as a Nation were never to make any kind of alliance with the Nations,That was FORBIDDEN. How much more would this apply to his adopted sons getting involved with the UN !

Is Jahs Hand so short that He himself could not get into forbidden countries if this is what He wanted ! Where was the demonstration of Faith ? There was none., then they have the nerve to profess to be the Faith full Discreet Slave.
How blasphemous can one get ? James rightly called them adulteresses .James 4:4
This is the way I view it all,so speaking only for myself.
love stayawake

[shikinah]

but NGO means Non Governmental Organisation... does this automaticly mean they are still a NGO member of the UN, or does it just mean that they wanted to attend that event, but are not a governmental organisation and where therefor under the list of NGO&#39;s? I&#39;m just wondering if this is solid proof that they are still a NGO member of the UN![/b]

To me the important thing is that they were there at all... NGOs or not.
If I went to an election rally and stood up and spouted off about how good that particular party was, surely I would expect a committee meeting so I could be &#39;dealt with&#39;.

MATTHEW 4:8 - 11 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, <A href=" target=_blank>9 and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me." <A href="http://" target=_blank>10 Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, &#39;It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.&#39;" <A href="http://" target=_blank>11 Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

ONE ACT OF WORSHIP THAT&#39;S ALL THAT WAS NEEDED.

It&#39;s a blatant case of don&#39;t do as I do, do as I say.
xx
[/b]


Hey you took the words right out of my mouth,
it doesnt matter about ngo or just using the library they shouldnt be stepping foot in there at all, they can write letters or email if they need to know something, theres plenty of info on line, you can even go to the UN website like i do :icon_redface: but thats to find out about their contact with the watchtower and religious agenda lol.
The wts got along without them before, why now? its because they are now part of it and dont want to be left out in the rain, they will be learning all about their agenda and coming changes within religion. Its a real frightening thought indeed, especially as they are not refering to them as the wild beast in newer publications.

Elizabeth

[panda]

<div class='quotemain'>
Just found this on Perimeno&#39;s site, thought it would be if interest.

Just some information I recently came across, the Watchtower is still an NGO registered with OSCE. This OSCE conference occurred just this month. http://www.osce.org/conferences/hdim_2007.html

Scroll down to NGOs. JW associated NGOs are numbers 10, 93, 94, 243 and 328.
http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2007...586_en.pdf[/b]

It is very obvious WTBTS are still NGOs
[/b]

Yep and mr Gillies is on the list as well, nr 87! His emailadress is on there too, we could all send him emails asking him why he was still registered as an NGO in 2007! :P I don&#39;t think he will appreciate that!! lol
Press Officer E-mail: paul.gillies@bigfoot.com</div>
</span></span>OK a serious note: &#39;JW&#39;s are on that list like 5 or 6 times, as an NGO... but NGO means Non Governmental Organisation... does this automaticly mean they are still a NGO member of the UN, or does it just mean that they wanted to attend that event, but are not a governmental organisation and where therefor under the list of NGO&#39;s? I&#39;m just wondering if this is solid proof that they are still a NGO member of the UN!
[/quote]they (WTS) should be so far away from them in everything, when I think of our b/s in Malawi this sort of flirting is enough to make me want to pewk.

If a b/s went to a RSL club to work just for one night to get rent or food money they would be reproved, if they continued to work a an RSL (return solders league) they would be given a choice to leave or be disfellwoshipped.

The WTS even having anything to do with the UN is something they would expect of the b/s, they are hypocrites and liars.

[shikinah]

I heard a while back, that they associate with the UN for various reasons, one example was concerning a political event in Africa, something to do with voting. Where these poor african brother and sisters were to oppose the voting despite threats of murder. Apparently many witnesses lost their lives. Then the wts some years later stated it was down to an individuals conscience in that particular land as to wether they choose to vote or not.
How must those poor famalies who had lost loved ones feel about this manmade decision, jesus died for our sins not for the wts to play god with peoples lives.

Elizabeth

[panda]

I heard a while back, that they associate with the UN for various reasons, one example was concerning a political event in Africa, something to do with voting. Where these poor african brother and sisters were to oppose the voting despite threats of murder. Apparently many witnesses lost their lives. Then the wts some years later stated it was down to an individuals conscience in that particular land as to wether they choose to vote or not.
How must those poor famalies who had lost loved ones feel about this manmade decision, jesus died for our sins not for the wts to play god with peoples lives.

Elizabeth[/b]I hope the suits in Brooklyn reflect on the mercy of our Lord and Saviour tonight, and learn from his love and great compassion he has for his sheep. Jehovah and Christ must have cried and ocean of tears over the deaths, and many tortures of their dear sheep, and the anger that will rage against all those unrepentant partakers that make these personal decisions as if law coming from his word.

When I think of Malawi, I cry. I remember that happening when I first came into the truth we wrote many letters and prayed many prayers for help of our dear b/s, I remember reading the atrocities suffered by Gods sheep, rapes and tortures and other satanic things, these faithful b/s obeyed what they thought was from Jehovah. Could that have been avoided? what was the party ticket? as far as we know today it was nothing more that like a Medicare card, was it actually joining the party?

Pray for Gods Kingdom and justice, these b/s and the families of these ones that have lost their lives, families and suffered so much in silence, will have everything made right in Jehovah&#39;s day of justice.

Makes me sick to think some in Brooklyn live it up with the best of everything, and partake and think of themselves ruling with Christ in the heavens, and most have lived a life of ease compared to others sufferings, makes me really think, as I know Jehovah is a God of Justice, doesn&#39;t seem near right to me. :(

[shikinah]

Panda,
i know what you feel, and sometimes its beyond comprehension as to how far these poor individuals have to suffer, while others have food, warmth and freedom. While not truely knowing the meaning of carrying your torture stake. But theres an irish saying, god is slow but he is very sure.

Elizabeth x

[Cephalon]

<div class='quotemain'>I heard a while back, that they associate with the UN for various reasons, one example was concerning a political event in Africa, something to do with voting. Where these poor african brother and sisters were to oppose the voting despite threats of murder. Apparently many witnesses lost their lives. Then the wts some years later stated it was down to an individuals conscience in that particular land as to wether they choose to vote or not.
How must those poor famalies who had lost loved ones feel about this manmade decision, jesus died for our sins not for the wts to play god with peoples lives.

Elizabeth[/b]I hope the suits in Brooklyn reflect on the mercy of our Lord and Saviour tonight, and learn from his love and great compassion he has for his sheep. Jehovah and Christ must have cried and ocean of tears over the deaths, and many tortures of their dear sheep, and the anger that will rage against all those unrepentant partakers that make these personal decisions as if law coming from his word.

When I think of Malawi, I cry. I remember that happening when I first came into the truth we wrote many letters and prayed many prayers for help of our dear b/s, I remember reading the atrocities suffered by Gods sheep, rapes and tortures and other satanic things, these faithful b/s obeyed what they thought was from Jehovah. Could that have been avoided? what was the party ticket? as far as we know today it was nothing more that like a Medicare card, was it actually joining the party?

[/b][/quote]

Really???? and who told you that?
Just like it was a library card, right?

No, it was not like a "medicare card", and it was not about simply "voting" either. It was much more than that.

please don&#39;t belittle the stand and the sacrifices these brothers and sisters made in the face of adversities.

[imjustaskin]

Really???? and who told you that?
Just like it was a library card, right?

No, it was not like a "medicare card", and it was not about simply "voting" either. It was much more than that.

please don&#39;t belittle the stand and the sacrifices these brothers and sisters made in the face of adversities.
[/quote]


She was ASKING, not belittling.

Could that have been avoided? what was the party ticket? as far as we know today it was nothing more that like a Medicare card, was it actually joining the party?

Can you share with us more info about it?

[panda]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>I heard a while back, that they associate with the UN for various reasons, one example was concerning a political event in Africa, something to do with voting. Where these poor african brother and sisters were to oppose the voting despite threats of murder. Apparently many witnesses lost their lives. Then the wts some years later stated it was down to an individuals conscience in that particular land as to wether they choose to vote or not.
How must those poor famalies who had lost loved ones feel about this manmade decision, jesus died for our sins not for the wts to play god with peoples lives.

Elizabeth[/b]I hope the suits in Brooklyn reflect on the mercy of our Lord and Saviour tonight, and learn from his love and great compassion he has for his sheep. Jehovah and Christ must have cried and ocean of tears over the deaths, and many tortures of their dear sheep, and the anger that will rage against all those unrepentant partakers that make these personal decisions as if law coming from his word.

When I think of Malawi, I cry. I remember that happening when I first came into the truth we wrote many letters and prayed many prayers for help of our dear b/s, I remember reading the atrocities suffered by Gods sheep, rapes and tortures and other satanic things, these faithful b/s obeyed what they thought was from Jehovah. Could that have been avoided? what was the party ticket? as far as we know today it was nothing more that like a Medicare card, was it actually joining the party?

[/b][/quote]

Really???? and who told you that?
Just like it was a library card, right?

No, it was not like a "medicare card", and it was not about simply "voting" either. It was much more than that.

please don&#39;t belittle the stand and the sacrifices these brothers and sisters made in the face of adversities.
[/b][/quote]Actually all these were questions some, or many JW have asked over the past decade on forums. And there have been apostates that would have liked to belittle the immense loyalty to Jehovah that the Malawi b/s stand on neutrality. The impact of my saying the Medicare card was equivalent was wrong, so I do apologize for that, though I was not intending to minimize in any way. My main point was the double standards of the WTS with the political stand of the b/s in Malawi to the allowance of the fiasco concerning the Cartilla for military service in Mexico, and then on top of that the UN lies.

So I apologize to anyone I may have offended including Cephalon, as I can understand that you may have come to the conclusion you did in regard to the Medicare statement. I was asking questions and also comparing between what is seems to be of little concern for the b/s in Malawi compared to the UN lies, and Mexico cartilla double standards from the WTBTS.