Peace And Security

[BrotherJay]

After giving much thought to this, I thought I would share with you this discourse.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

I think this scripture is going to play a major role in the next few years. This is all just speculation and opinion, so please take it as such. For months now, I have pondered what the call of "peace and security" would be. We have been taught as JWs that this will be a "call" or a "cry" FOR peace and security. However, let's look at it from this standpoint:

We are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the 20s and 30s. Will we recover? Some on here think we will not and that we are seeing the beginning of the end. I am reasoning that that is not the case. This system will recover and in a large way--not only financially but politically and Obama will be the center of such recovery perhaps. Or he'll be the one to start the process. We will see the world reach a stage where the bold and foolish statement will be made by the leading nations of the world: "Look what we have done! We have recovered! We have finally achieved global PEACE and financial SECURITY! Gone are the old ways. The New World Order has solved our problems!"

It is then that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them. The peace and security they will have achieved in whatever form will be dashed to pieces when the New World Order shows its true colors.

Brother Jay

[littleone]

After giving much thought to this, I thought I would share with you this discourse.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!� then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

I think this scripture is going to play a major role in the next few years. This is all just speculation and opinion, so please take it as such. For months now, I have pondered what the call of "peace and security" would be. We have been taught as JWs that this will be a "call" or a "cry" FOR peace and security. However, let's look at it from this standpoint:

We are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the 20s and 30s. Will we recover? Some on here think we will not and that we are seeing the beginning of the end. I am reasoning that that is not the case. This system will recover and in a large way--not only financially but politically and Obama will be the center of such recovery perhaps. Or he'll be the one to start the process. We will see the world reach a stage where the bold and foolish statement will be made by the leading nations of the world: "Look what we have done! We have recovered! We have finally achieved global PEACE and financial SECURITY! Gone are the old ways. The New World Order has solved our problems!"

It is then that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them. The peace and security they will have achieved in whatever form will be dashed to pieces when the New World Order shows its true colors.

Brother Jay[/b]
Just something to think about:

For every prophecy in the New Testament, there is usually a parallel or antitype in the Old Testament. Who were the ones in the Old Testament who were declaring "peace" when there was no peace? What prophecy could Paul be referring to?

[littleone]

<div class='quotemain'>After giving much thought to this, I thought I would share with you this discourse.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!� then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

I think this scripture is going to play a major role in the next few years. This is all just speculation and opinion, so please take it as such. For months now, I have pondered what the call of "peace and security" would be. We have been taught as JWs that this will be a "call" or a "cry" FOR peace and security. However, let&#39;s look at it from this standpoint:

We are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the 20s and 30s. Will we recover? Some on here think we will not and that we are seeing the beginning of the end. I am reasoning that that is not the case. This system will recover and in a large way--not only financially but politically and Obama will be the center of such recovery perhaps. Or he&#39;ll be the one to start the process. We will see the world reach a stage where the bold and foolish statement will be made by the leading nations of the world: "Look what we have done! We have recovered! We have finally achieved global PEACE and financial SECURITY! Gone are the old ways. The New World Order has solved our problems!"

It is then that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them. The peace and security they will have achieved in whatever form will be dashed to pieces when the New World Order shows its true colors.

Brother Jay[/b]
Just something to think about:

For every prophecy in the New Testament, there is usually a parallel or antitype in the Old Testament. Who were the ones in the Old Testament who were declaring "peace" when there was no peace? What prophecy could Paul be referring to?
[/b][/quote]OK... here&#39;s a hint then. Its found in Jeremiah 6. Notice what Jehovah says to the ones declaring "There is peace!". Also notice in verse 24 how distress seizes hold of these ones like "labor pains like those of a woman giving birth". But who was Jehovah talking to? And who is the ones saying that there is peace? The leaders of this world? Or someone else?

[YeshiYahu]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>After giving much thought to this, I thought I would share with you this discourse.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!� then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

I think this scripture is going to play a major role in the next few years. This is all just speculation and opinion, so please take it as such. For months now, I have pondered what the call of "peace and security" would be. We have been taught as JWs that this will be a "call" or a "cry" FOR peace and security. However, let&#39;s look at it from this standpoint:

We are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the 20s and 30s. Will we recover? Some on here think we will not and that we are seeing the beginning of the end. I am reasoning that that is not the case. This system will recover and in a large way--not only financially but politically and Obama will be the center of such recovery perhaps. Or he&#39;ll be the one to start the process. We will see the world reach a stage where the bold and foolish statement will be made by the leading nations of the world: "Look what we have done! We have recovered! We have finally achieved global PEACE and financial SECURITY! Gone are the old ways. The New World Order has solved our problems!"

It is then that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them. The peace and security they will have achieved in whatever form will be dashed to pieces when the New World Order shows its true colors.

Brother Jay[/b]
Just something to think about:

For every prophecy in the New Testament, there is usually a parallel or antitype in the Old Testament. Who were the ones in the Old Testament who were declaring "peace" when there was no peace? What prophecy could Paul be referring to?
[/b][/quote]OK... here&#39;s a hint then. Its found in Jeremiah 6. Notice what Jehovah says to the ones declaring "There is peace!". Also notice in verse 24 how distress seizes hold of these ones like "labor pains like those of a woman giving birth". But who was Jehovah talking to? And who is the ones saying that there is peace? The leaders of this world? Or someone else?

[/b][/quote]

Spot on littleone

[Peter]

I’ve noticed Obama is using the words “Peace and Security” more frequently – they may well turn out to be the nations.



"So today, I state clearly and with conviction America&#39;s commitment and desire to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons.




" :unsure:

[shikinah]

Obama, was in Turky today, standing in the famous blue mosque, making peace with the muslims. By the time he is elected within the UN, he would have the world eating out of his hands. No matter what the UN will propose with Obama being the main man there plan will be welcomed open arms.

Elizabeth

[uglyandthin]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>After giving much thought to this, I thought I would share with you this discourse.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-3) 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!� then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

I think this scripture is going to play a major role in the next few years. This is all just speculation and opinion, so please take it as such. For months now, I have pondered what the call of "peace and security" would be. We have been taught as JWs that this will be a "call" or a "cry" FOR peace and security. However, let&#39;s look at it from this standpoint:

We are experiencing the worst financial crisis since the 20s and 30s. Will we recover? Some on here think we will not and that we are seeing the beginning of the end. I am reasoning that that is not the case. This system will recover and in a large way--not only financially but politically and Obama will be the center of such recovery perhaps. Or he&#39;ll be the one to start the process. We will see the world reach a stage where the bold and foolish statement will be made by the leading nations of the world: "Look what we have done! We have recovered! We have finally achieved global PEACE and financial SECURITY! Gone are the old ways. The New World Order has solved our problems!"

It is then that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them. The peace and security they will have achieved in whatever form will be dashed to pieces when the New World Order shows its true colors.

Brother Jay[/b]
Just something to think about:

For every prophecy in the New Testament, there is usually a parallel or antitype in the Old Testament. Who were the ones in the Old Testament who were declaring "peace" when there was no peace? What prophecy could Paul be referring to?
[/b][/quote]OK... here&#39;s a hint then. Its found in Jeremiah 6. Notice what Jehovah says to the ones declaring "There is peace!". Also notice in verse 24 how distress seizes hold of these ones like "labor pains like those of a woman giving birth". But who was Jehovah talking to? And who is the ones saying that there is peace? The leaders of this world? Or someone else?

[/b][/quote]

Spot on littleone
[/b][/quote]

Hi littleone:

Ezekiel 13 is a nice supporting scripture for this idea. Very nice!

uglyandthin

[littleone]

Hi littleone:

Ezekiel 13 is a nice supporting scripture for this idea. Very nice!

uglyandthin[/b]It is interesting to note that many apply Jeremiah 6 to what happened to Israel concerning Babylon... and of course it did have a fulfillment then. Yet, note what Jehovah says in verse 18: "“Therefore hear, O YOU nations! And know, O you assembly, what will be among them."


Furthermore, before this, he mentions: "For this is what Jehovah of armies has said: “Cut down wood and throw up against Jerusalem a siege rampart. She is the city with which an accounting must be held. She is nothing but oppression in the midst of her. 7 As a cistern keeps its waters cool, so she has kept her badness cool. Violence and despoiling are heard in her; sickness and plague are before my face constantly. 8 Be corrected, O Jerusalem, that my soul may not turn away disgusted from you; that I may not set you as a desolate waste, a land not inhabited.” - Jeremiah 6:6-8

Does not Jesus mention something very similar to this in Luke 21? There he says: “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled." - Luke 21:20-22

These are days for meting out Justice... but against whom? Is it not against those within Jerusalem? Shall we dare call those ones meting out justice in Jehovah&#39;s name a "disgusting thing"?

[Rogue]

<div class='quotemain'>Hi littleone:

Ezekiel 13 is a nice supporting scripture for this idea. Very nice!

uglyandthin[/b]It is interesting to note that many apply Jeremiah 6 to what happened to Israel concerning Babylon... and of course it did have a fulfillment then. Yet, note what Jehovah says in verse 18: ""Therefore hear, O YOU nations! And know, O you assembly, what will be among them."


Furthermore, before this, he mentions: "For this is what Jehovah of armies has said: "Cut down wood and throw up against Jerusalem a siege rampart. She is the city with which an accounting must be held. She is nothing but oppression in the midst of her. 7 As a cistern keeps its waters cool, so she has kept her badness cool. Violence and despoiling are heard in her; sickness and plague are before my face constantly. 8 Be corrected, O Jerusalem, that my soul may not turn away disgusted from you; that I may not set you as a desolate waste, a land not inhabited." - Jeremiah 6:6-8

Does not Jesus mention something very similar to this in Luke 21? There he says: "Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled." - Luke 21:20-22

These are days for meting out Justice... but against whom? Is it not against those within Jerusalem? Shall we dare call those ones meting out justice in Jehovah&#39;s name a "disgusting thing"?
[/b][/quote]

Nop, it&#39;s not right to call the WTBTS the disgusting thing, but it is right to call them the place where the disgusting thing will stand, like in the old days it was Jerusalem! The WTBTS says today the &#39;holy place&#39; is christianity, because they THINK they are holy.. how anyone swallows that reasoning is beyond me, but anyway, I think it is obvious that the disgusting thing will be found in the midst of the annointed... and the dealings with the UN might have something to do with it, but I think the actual disgusting thing in the midst of the annointed will be appearant to those seaking prophecy forfillment... when the actual forfillment will come, I don&#39;t think we need to guess wether it has happened or not, and I think it will also be appearant where we will need to flee to, what the symbolic mountains will be!

[shikinah]

So the holy place in the scriptures back then was Jehovahs place of worship, and the disgusting thing standing in the holy place was jerusalem.
What is the holy place of god to day? is it Rome, the UN or wts how can we determine which one it is, "when you catch site of the disgusting thing which causes desolation begin fleeing to the mountains. I think it is the UN, especially as it starts to have a more spiritual connection with christendom. It is already stating what should be taught in churches as to gay rights and marriage. Desolation because it will try and take over the wts by out right demand to incorperate its teachings, or with a sly association which is already happening, but unseen to those who are blind to satans snares. All we can do is watch as prophesy unfold and more and more brothers and sisters become aware somethings not quite right in their spiritual paradise.

Elizabeth

[tortas]

i have some thoughts on this subject

from my understanding this declaration is just before the great tribulation or lords day

the declaration does not necessarily mean peace has been achieved

my point is this

we see the world scene escalating; irag, afganishtan, korea, russia and so on

just as jesus said, the nations will be at the brink

meanwhile , people will not notice, just as the days of noah

We see things getting hotter ; which brings me to this point

the goverments know this and will LIE to the people by declaring peace and security

is being achieved


just my thoughts

[TheMdC]

The American and Russian puppet leaders just announced a new nuclear disarmament plan today. Just another thing to keep an eye on.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned economic recovery being part of the "peace and security." I don&#39;t think the economy enters into this prophecy. It&#39;s about feeling safe.

[James]

I don&#39;t think the economy enters into this prophecy. It&#39;s about feeling safe.[/b]

I kinda think they&#39;re inseparable. With the current economic climate, people losing jobs, can&#39;t pay bills, losing their homes, they&#39;re losing their security blanket. They just don&#39;t feel safe.

James

[Juan]

We cant forget the government&#39;s favorite game plan:
Problem - Reaction - Solution

The govt loves creating a dilemma and presenting the solution, that way they can trick the people to fully support them.

And that is precisely what is going on right now. We have been presented the problem, economy/terrorism etc., dilemmas they create themselves in order present their solution, patriot act/wiretapping/central banks/politicians like obama... Through this "solution", their objective is to gain as much CONTROL over the peoples as they can get while they have full support from them.

This control over the public&#39;s opinion is ESSENTIAL to Satan if he wishes to succeed in persuading the world that religion, or even believing in God, creates arguments and differences between humans and limits the world from being fully united and peaceful.

[FutureMan]

So the holy place in the scriptures back then was Jehovahs place of worship, and the disgusting thing standing in the holy place was jerusalem.
What is the holy place of god to day? is it Rome, the UN or wts how can we determine which one it is, "when you catch site of the disgusting thing which causes desolation begin fleeing to the mountains. I think it is the UN, especially as it starts to have a more spiritual connection with christendom. It is already stating what should be taught in churches as to gay rights and marriage. Desolation because it will try and take over the wts by out right demand to incorperate its teachings, or with a sly association which is already happening, but unseen to those who are blind to satans snares. All we can do is watch as prophesy unfold and more and more brothers and sisters become aware somethings not quite right in their spiritual paradise.

Elizabeth[/b]

Hello all, in my opinion, the Holy place is not a literal place as it was back then, the literal Jerusalem.
Today the Holy place represents a spiritual Jerusalem where the spiritual temple resides.
In other words the Holy place represents the domain of true Christians and true worship where the disgusting thing, a situation, will soon exist.

All true Christians will recognize the disgusting thing that causes desolation, when the time comes.

From FutureMan

[TheMdC]

Hello all, in my opinion, the Holy place is not a literal place as it was back then, the literal Jerusalem.
Today the Holy place represents a spiritual Jerusalem where the spiritual temple resides.
In other words the Holy place represents the domain of true Christians and true worship where the disgusting thing, a situation, will soon exist.

All true Christians will recognize the disgusting thing that causes desolation, when the time comes.

From FutureMan
[/b]
I sure hope you&#39;re right.

[shikinah]

<div class='quotemain'>So the holy place in the scriptures back then was Jehovahs place of worship, and the disgusting thing standing in the holy place was jerusalem.
What is the holy place of god to day? is it Rome, the UN or wts how can we determine which one it is, "when you catch site of the disgusting thing which causes desolation begin fleeing to the mountains. I think it is the UN, especially as it starts to have a more spiritual connection with christendom. It is already stating what should be taught in churches as to gay rights and marriage. Desolation because it will try and take over the wts by out right demand to incorperate its teachings, or with a sly association which is already happening, but unseen to those who are blind to satans snares. All we can do is watch as prophesy unfold and more and more brothers and sisters become aware somethings not quite right in their spiritual paradise.

Elizabeth[/b]

Hello all, in my opinion, the Holy place is not a literal place as it was back then, the literal Jerusalem.
Today the Holy place represents a spiritual Jerusalem where the spiritual temple resides.
In other words the Holy place represents the domain of true Christians and true worship where the disgusting thing, a situation, will soon exist.

All true Christians will recognize the disgusting thing that causes desolation, when the time comes.

From FutureMan




[/b][/quote]

Thats how i originally saw it as a spiritual Jerusalem, but what do you think the "disgusting thing" standing in the holy place is?
Is it a future prophesy or could it be the UN?

[FutureMan]

<div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>So the holy place in the scriptures back then was Jehovahs place of worship, and the disgusting thing standing in the holy place was jerusalem.
What is the holy place of god to day? is it Rome, the UN or wts how can we determine which one it is, "when you catch site of the disgusting thing which causes desolation begin fleeing to the mountains. I think it is the UN, especially as it starts to have a more spiritual connection with christendom. It is already stating what should be taught in churches as to gay rights and marriage. Desolation because it will try and take over the wts by out right demand to incorperate its teachings, or with a sly association which is already happening, but unseen to those who are blind to satans snares. All we can do is watch as prophesy unfold and more and more brothers and sisters become aware somethings not quite right in their spiritual paradise.

Elizabeth[/b]

If we were to follow the same pattern, then the disgusting thing causing desolation would be a situation that could cause spiritual desolation of God&#39;s people.