May 15, 1999 Watchtower [Archive] - e-Jehovah's Witnesses: A Place for Jehovah's Witnesses and Interested Ones

Eyes & Ears

04-24-2009, 09:41 PM

I was not gonna log back on until Monday. But I was doing some research and ran across this article from the May 1, 1999 Watchtower.

In 1999 I was out of the org. doing who knows what. Anyways I had no idea that
some of the things in this article were things we actually accepted, then they changed them.

Good Grief. OK now I am leaving until Monday.

E & E

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
All Rights Reserved

[b]<div align="center"> There is no reason for us to live in fear of what is going to happen. Jesus did not want his disciples back then to be afraid, and he does not want us to be in fear, either now or in the days to come. He alerted us so that we can be preparing our hearts and minds. After all, obedient Christians will not be punished when destruction comes on false religion and the rest of this wicked system. They will be discerning and heed the warning about 'the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.' And they will act decisively on their unshakable faith. May we never forget what Jesus promised: "He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved."—Mark 13:13.</div>

scrappyd

04-25-2009, 06:21 AM

23 We must be certain that our refuge continues to be Jehovah and his mountainlike organization. (2*Samuel 22:2,*3; Psalm 18:2; Daniel 2:35, 44) That is where we will find protection! We will not imitate the masses of mankind who will flee to “the caves” and hide “in the rock-masses of the mountains”—human organizations and institutions that may remain for a very short while after Babylon the Great is desolated. (Revelation 6:15; 18:9-11) True, times may get more difficult—as they would have been in 66*C.E. for pregnant women who fled Judea or for anyone who had to travel in cold, rainy weather. But we can be sure that God will make survival possible. Let us even now reinforce our reliance on Jehovah and his Son, now reigning as King of the Kingdom.
24 There is no reason for us to live in fear of what is going to happen. Jesus did not want his disciples back then to be afraid, and he does not want us to be in fear, either now or in the days to come. He alerted us so that we can be preparing our hearts and minds. After all, obedient Christians will not be punished when destruction comes on false religion and the rest of this wicked system. They will be discerning and heed the warning about ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.’ And they will act decisively on their unshakable faith. May we never forget what Jesus promised: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”—Mark 13:13.[/b]

That is quite the mouthful.

To me, it does not seem like too much a change in possition as before.

Those coming times will still be very soon and still be hard to deal with for sure, but well worth all we can do to ensure we are there doing Jehovah's will at that time and not be caught off guard.

This system cant go on much longer. With the economic situation, personally I think the market leaders are lying there heads off about any recovery, A few terrorist attacks throughout the G8 will almost for sure bring on martial law and with that, I can see the fall of religion.

Although the times will be hard, Jehovah will help us through.

At that time, I will have no trouble leaving material things behind as I don't think I have any. As for the likes of Lot's wife, there will be no turning back for me. I hope,,,,

Scrappyd

uglyandthin

04-25-2009, 09:58 AM

23 We must be certain that our refuge continues to be Jehovah and his mountainlike organization. (2 Samuel 22:2, 3; Psalm 18:2; Daniel 2:35, 44) That is where we will find protection! We will not imitate the masses of mankind who will flee to "the caves" and hide "in the rock-masses of the mountains"—human organizations and institutions that may remain for a very short while after Babylon the Great is desolated. (Revelation 6:15; 18:9-11) True, times may get more difficult—as they would have been in 66 C.E. for pregnant women who fled Judea or for anyone who had to travel in cold, rainy weather. But we can be sure that God will make survival possible. Let us even now reinforce our reliance on Jehovah and his Son, now reigning as King of the Kingdom.
24 There is no reason for us to live in fear of what is going to happen. Jesus did not want his disciples back then to be afraid, and he does not want us to be in fear, either now or in the days to come. He alerted us so that we can be preparing our hearts and minds. After all, obedient Christians will not be punished when destruction comes on false religion and the rest of this wicked system. They will be discerning and heed the warning about 'the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.' And they will act decisively on their unshakable faith. May we never forget what Jesus promised: "He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved."—Mark 13:13.[/b]

That is quite the mouthful.

To me, it does not seem like too much a change in possition as before.

Those coming times will still be very soon and still be hard to deal with for sure, but well worth all we can do to ensure we are there doing Jehovah's will at that time and not be caught off guard.

This system cant go on much longer. With the economic situation, personally I think the market leaders are lying there heads off about any recovery, A few terrorist attacks throughout the G8 will almost for sure bring on martial law and with that, I can see the fall of religion.

Although the times will be hard, Jehovah will help us through.

At that time, I will have no trouble leaving material things behind as I don't think I have any. As for the likes of Lot's wife, there will be no turning back for me. I hope,,,,

Scrappyd
[/b]

Hi all:

The discipline is coming, but it will not start with Christendom or the rest of false religion but will start with the House of God (the Watchtower). Though their sins be as scarlet, Jehovah will make them as snow (through his loving yet painful discipline). The disgusting thing has been standing in a holy place since January 28, 1992 and God has given them ample time to repent, but they refuse to just as was prophesied in Revelation 2:20-23...
20 "‘Nevertheless, I do hold [this] against you, that you tolerate that woman Jez´e·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her fornication. 22 Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 And her children I will kill with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am he who searches the kidneys and hearts, and I will give to YOU individually according to YOUR deeds.

Now is the time to get out of her, if you do not want to share in her plagues as mentioned above that will come upon her and "her children" in the "congregations". Can it be any plainer? Jesus advised his disciples to leave when they "saw" perhaps literally in the first Century, but no doubt with the minds eye in our day. As already mentioned, this started formally on January 28, 1992 with the acceptance of the Watchtower's "unsigned" application to join the U.N. DPI as an official NGO, but you may not have found out about it until recently. Also, although you may have known about this for some time, it may have taken a while for the ramifications of such an action to sink in, finally realizing that this is what Jesus meant.

So, have no fear cause fear only acts as a restraint. Get out of her, before she is formally punished by God and you have to recieve a piece of that discipline. Don't worry where you will go, Jehovah and his Son will let you know in due time. We will hear his voice and recognize his call from wherever we are.

There are no doubt Sons of God outside of the Watchtower who have left over the years for various reasons, and I suppose a good number of Sons within the ranks of Christendom and the rest of false religion who also have to come out, but this warning from Jesus is primarily for his Sons within "a holy place".

uglyandthin

shikinah

04-25-2009, 10:43 AM

Uglyandthin,
When do we get out of her?
I was with some witnesses yesterday, and the pressure they were putting on me to attend meetings was unbelievable, to the extent they think i dont love Jehovah or the truth, its hard because you cant tell them what you know, so as not to stumble them. Its a very difficult one, i know i want to go back simply because of the preachng work, but when i hear the hypocracy and ignorance which come from some of their mouths, its off putting.

Elizabeth

billy2

04-25-2009, 11:45 AM

Hello Shikinah

I understand what your saying - when i had a few witnesses come to visit me for encouragement - it was quite odd - i was the one wanting to talk about biblical subjects - they didnt seem to care - it was more everyday stuff for them - but they always made sure they put the pressure on me to go to meetings - i was very anxious to do so - i finally let them talk me into it - and it was such a bad experience that i left a crying wreck and just started walking home - cant get myself to go back and they havent come to see me since -

Hi uglyandthin

I wonder sometimes too if the UN situation with the wt is the fullfillment of the sign - but im not sure - when the romans came into Jerusalem - it was the jews they were after not the christians - but if some chistians had not heeded Jesus warning to get out, they would have gotten caught up in the turmoil and maybe died - so i do wonder if any of the jewish surviviors became christians later - which makes me wonder if christendom ,or any religion, gets attached by the red beast - if there will be some who will accept the truth of Jeusus - the wt article mentions there will not be some mass conversion - which would not be possible in the original fulfillment because many died

shikinah

04-25-2009, 02:09 PM

If theres no mass conversion, then the preaching work needs a different aproach lol..im sure the scriptures state that people would be running to the mountain of Jehovah. Thats a terrible experience going to the meeting and feeling awful, but i know it very well, funny enough my daughter told me recently how she felt the same as a child, how she hated it and could never bring her self to go back. The love and warmth should be enough to encourage an individual, but when that has fizzled away then its an ordeal which is very sad. Jehovahs a happy god and thats how our hearts should feel when worshipping him.

Elizabeth

Gabriel

04-25-2009, 06:04 PM

In order to keep my sanity i must have faith in believing that when the time comes to leave the Watchtower Jehovah will make it known. There will be no guess work, No shady multiplying or deviding of numbers, and most of all, we're not going to need anyone telling us "See this is it...get out now!"

That warning comes from the angel that Jehovah sends Notice Rev.18:1-2

"After these things I saw another angel desending from heaven with great authority;and the earth was lighted up from his glory. 2. And he cried out with a strong voice,saying: "She has fallen! Babaylon the great has fallen, and she has become the dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhaultation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird"

This angel isnt spoken of as whispering nor speaking softly but rather he Cries out with a strong voice. It appears to me that there is going to be a major revealing about the watchtower, something very unpleasent and much more grievious than the UN. Just as Jehovah uses angels to expose the sins of individuals within the congregations, he wilL also use an Angel to expose the dark works being done at the very top ranks of bethel.

It will be done in such a way as to catch the worlds attention and it will not fade swiftly. In this case it would be just like the Strong cry of the angel giving all a finnal notice to GET OUT!

Those who are fool hearted enough to cling to the Watchtower a this point will be a share of her sins and will undergo her plegues.

--Just a fools thoughts--

uglyandthin

04-25-2009, 07:05 PM

Hello Shikinah

I understand what your saying - when i had a few witnesses come to visit me for encouragement - it was quite odd - i was the one wanting to talk about biblical subjects - they didnt seem to care - it was more everyday stuff for them - but they always made sure they put the pressure on me to go to meetings - i was very anxious to do so - i finally let them talk me into it - and it was such a bad experience that i left a crying wreck and just started walking home - cant get myself to go back and they havent come to see me since -

Hi uglyandthin

I wonder sometimes too if the UN situation with the wt is the fullfillment of the sign - but im not sure - when the romans came into Jerusalem - it was the jews they were after not the christians - but if some chistians had not heeded Jesus warning to get out, they would have gotten caught up in the turmoil and maybe died - so i do wonder if any of the jewish surviviors became christians later - which makes me wonder if christendom ,or any religion, gets attached by the red beast - if there will be some who will accept the truth of Jeusus - the wt article mentions there will not be some mass conversion - which would not be possible in the original fulfillment because many died[/b]

Hi Billy2:

The Watchtower does not think there will be a "mass conversion" because they are under the delusion that they are doing the separating work now with thier preaching activity and have been doing so since the 1920's and before. They don't put much stock in the testimony of the two witnesses and somehow believe that this will just be a condemmatory message without the opportunity for individuals to repent. I think the message will be condemnatory as well, but that people will have an opportunity to come out and that they will do it in droves. Remember, Jesus name means "God is Salvation". The same way that he "is" Love, he "is" Salvation, and I think he will live up to Jesus name in a big way. It is hard for me to believe that only 1/10 of 1 % of the population or less will be saved, finally.

Hi Shikinah:

That is not a question that I am able to answer for anyone. You have to make that decision for yourself. I learned about the U.N. affair in about early to mid 2004. I disassociated myself in July 2006. So it ultimately took me a little over 2 years to fully understand (and believe, as I researched it in detail that whole time) the ramifications of thier actions and how it effected me. Jehovah and Jesus will not forsake you. It will not be an easy road, but I for one think it is the right path. God certainly loves his children in the Watchtower, especially those of the remnant (and he will prove it with his discipline), but he will not hold back the necessary discipline and I think the time for that discipline is very near. I have been wrong about the timing of these things before, many times, but I am sure that they will come soon. I would rather have taken Jesus advice and been on the outside when this happens. If you or others feel safer within the restrictive confines of a pen, stay where you are. It is your decision. I will help in any way I can.

uglyandthin

uglyandthin

04-25-2009, 07:28 PM

In order to keep my sanity i must have faith in believing that when the time comes to leave the Watchtower Jehovah will make it known. There will be no guess work, No shady multiplying or deviding of numbers, and most of all, we're not going to need anyone telling us "See this is it...get out now!"

That warning comes from the angel that Jehovah sends Notice Rev.18:1-2

"After these things I saw another angel desending from heaven with great authority;and the earth was lighted up from his glory. 2. And he cried out with a strong voice,saying: "She has fallen! Babaylon the great has fallen, and she has become the dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhaultation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird"

This angel isnt spoken of as whispering nor speaking softly but rather he Cries out with a strong voice. It appears to me that there is going to be a major revealing about the watchtower, something very unpleasent and much more grievious than the UN. Just as Jehovah uses angels to expose the sins of individuals within the congregations, he wilL also use an Angel to expose the dark works being done at the very top ranks of bethel.

It will be done in such a way as to catch the worlds attention and it will not fade swiftly. In this case it would be just like the Strong cry of the angel giving all a finnal notice to GET OUT!

Those who are fool hearted enough to cling to the Watchtower a this point will be a share of her sins and will undergo her plegues.

--Just a fools thoughts--[/b]

Hi Gabriel:

I think you are correct that it will not be a secret when God brings his denunciation upon the WT. Also, once the Christlike people within the organization realize what has happened (most do not know or choose not to investigate the wrongdoing) and that they are indeed the target of God's disapproval, they will "spill thier guts" in fulfillment of how Judas spilled his on the rocks of the precipice after his death. There are many who know all the dirty details but keep them secret out of fear of what will happen to them once they do reveal what they know. This will no doubt fill pages upon pages of evil doing on the part of the Good for Nothing Slave element within the Watchtower.

The evil influence that has been heading the organization (Jezebel and Baal influences) will be fully exposed in some way, but then they will go into self preservation mode and will come up with all types of excuses for thier actions. They have had many years to plan for this and no doubt have some better ones than "the library card" excuse. They will no doubt say that it is some evil plot by "opposers" and that they are still God's people and the crazy part is...many will be taken in by thier lies (perhaps even some of the Bride of Christ) because they are driven by "fear of man" and what he can do to you (disfellowship you and ruin your friends and family relationships) instead of being motivated by thier love of God and his Son (they have absolutely no influence over how God and Christ think about us, they only imply that they do, but how can unrepentant sinners, some against the Holy Spirit have any authority left from God?)

Jesus did not say it would be impossible to "take flight" after this starts, he just implied that it would be more of a hardship to do so. It is everyones choice what they do. I wish all well in this decision, I know from personal experience that it is not an easy one to make. It was not for me, even though I knew to the core of my soul that it was the correct way to go, it was still brutally difficult at the time and every day since, but correct nonetheless. Again, I wish you and all others well in thier decision making on this matter. Whatever you choose, I will do whatever I can to help.

uglyandthin

noname

04-25-2009, 09:55 PM

Interesting how they skipped over the part

14 "However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains.

And left no commentary about "where it ought not".

-----

The ones who are trying to get us to leave the brothers and sisters at the kingdom hall should just stop. You have no grounds for this. Why should you be judging someone for their ignorance? Just because you might know something they don't and WONT tell them your gonna treat them like there idiots?
How would anyone learn the truth if you judged them for their ignorance and beliefs?
Where is your close friends?
Of coarse they want you to go to the meetings thats when everyone gets together as a group! Its not some evil conspiracy to hurt you.
People have strength in numbers and unity. When people are divided then they collapse.
Wake Up! Nobodys perfect, its the best thing we got right now so take advantage of it. If someone bothers you then forgive them and forget about it, its not about you or me, its about Jehovah's Sovereignty, His right to rule!

uglyandthin

04-25-2009, 10:29 PM

Interesting how they skipped over the part

14 "However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains.

And left no commentary about "where it ought not".

-----

The ones who are trying to get us to leave the brothers and sisters at the kingdom hall should just stop. You have no grounds for this. Why should you be judging someone for their ignorance? Just because you might know something they don't and WONT tell them your gonna treat them like there idiots?
How would anyone learn the truth if you judged them for their ignorance and beliefs?
Where is your close friends?
Of coarse they want you to go to the meetings thats when everyone gets together as a group! Its not some evil conspiracy to hurt you.
People have strength in numbers and unity. When people are divided then they collapse.
Wake Up! Nobodys perfect, its the best thing we got right now so take advantage of it. If someone bothers you then forgive them and forget about it, its not about you or me, its about Jehovah's Sovereignty, His right to rule![/b]

Hi noname:

You seem to forget that these are not my wishes or the wishes of anyone else but Jesus himself. He is the one who gave the council to leave, once a person "saw" the disgusting thing standing in "a holy place" or as you say "where it ought not". Let's be clear on this. I am not the one who issued this command, but it was the King of those who rule as Kings and Lord of those who rule as Lords that has done so. You and everyone else, do what you see fit doing. You know in your own heart if you feel this applies to the WT or not and only you can make that choice where you will go or where you will stay. Just don't blame your decision or lack of one on me or anyone else. Clear? I am judging no one. I leave that up to those who are trusted with that duty and responsibility.

uglyandthin

scrappyd

04-26-2009, 12:04 AM

Uglyandthin,
When do we get out of her?
I was with some witnesses yesterday, and the pressure they were putting on me to attend meetings was unbelievable, to the extent they think i dont love Jehovah or the truth, its hard because you cant tell them what you know, so as not to stumble them. Its a very difficult one, i know i want to go back simply because of the preachng work, but when i hear the hypocracy and ignorance which come from some of their mouths, its off putting.

Elizabeth[/b]

My main reason for getting back into the congregation as opposed to just believing in Jehovah and trying to do what was right was the saying in the bible,

God says, ‘Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together.’ (Heb. 10:25)

This seems to me to be a command, not an option. The words, "DO NOT" to me have a real meaning.

The congregations, in my opinion are still the place of worship to Jehovah. I know there is much wrong in the congregations, but that is not Jehovahs fault. Each one in the congregations, the Bethal etc are imperfect. The bible also talks of ones who will infultrate the congregations to put them to shame, to cause a bad name to Jehovah as in the pedafiles etc.

Just because of ones who have wronged us or others, we must not forget that these are Jehovah's places of worship. His houses. In the proper time, he will cleanse his places of worship, but until then, I felt I must not forsake the gathering of ourselves together
He askes us to be there, and so, that is where I want to be.

Also, there are very good brothers and sisters in the halls who can be there when we need them. Not all are bad.

My thinking on the subject only.

Scrappyd

imjustaskin

04-26-2009, 12:26 AM

I agree with Scrappy. The congregation isn't perfect, but it's better than most other things out there. Having been away from the congregation for more than 10 years, my personal experience was that without the reminders and the spirituality to be found there, it is much easier for Satan to cloud our thinking and to become entangled in the thinking of the world.

No, it's not perfect. But there is good to be found there, and I think we need all the help we can get in this time.

I speak for myself though, and for those that have been hurt too badly to return, I understand and don't think any less of them. I can absolutely see how some might feel that way.

scrappyd

04-26-2009, 02:32 AM

Interesting how they skipped over the part

14 "However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains.

And left no commentary about "where it ought not".

-----

The ones who are trying to get us to leave the brothers and sisters at the kingdom hall should just stop. You have no grounds for this. Why should you be judging someone for their ignorance? Just because you might know something they don't and WONT tell them your gonna treat them like there idiots?
How would anyone learn the truth if you judged them for their ignorance and beliefs?
Where is your close friends?
Of coarse they want you to go to the meetings thats when everyone gets together as a group! Its not some evil conspiracy to hurt you.
People have strength in numbers and unity. When people are divided then they collapse.
Wake Up! Nobodys perfect, its the best thing we got right now so take advantage of it. If someone bothers you then forgive them and forget about it, its not about you or me, its about Jehovah's Sovereignty, His right to rule![/b]

I could not say it any better. The hall is where we are upbuilt and we need the brothers and sisters. As in another post. We are told that we MUST gather together. The words were, DO NOT.

Scrappyd

scrappyd

04-26-2009, 02:37 AM

<div class='quotemain'>Interesting how they skipped over the part

14 "However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains.

And left no commentary about "where it ought not".

-----

The ones who are trying to get us to leave the brothers and sisters at the kingdom hall should just stop. You have no grounds for this. Why should you be judging someone for their ignorance? Just because you might know something they don't and WONT tell them your gonna treat them like there idiots?
How would anyone learn the truth if you judged them for their ignorance and beliefs?
Where is your close friends?
Of coarse they want you to go to the meetings thats when everyone gets together as a group! Its not some evil conspiracy to hurt you.
People have strength in numbers and unity. When people are divided then they collapse.
Wake Up! Nobodys perfect, its the best thing we got right now so take advantage of it. If someone bothers you then forgive them and forget about it, its not about you or me, its about Jehovah's Sovereignty, His right to rule![/b]

Hi noname:

You seem to forget that these are not my wishes or the wishes of anyone else but Jesus himself. He is the one who gave the council to leave, once a person "saw" the disgusting thing standing in "a holy place" or as you say "where it ought not". Let's be clear on this. I am not the one who issued this command, but it was the King of those who rule as Kings and Lord of those who rule as Lords that has done so. You and everyone else, do what you see fit doing. You know in your own heart if you feel this applies to the WT or not and only you can make that choice where you will go or where you will stay. Just don't blame your decision or lack of one on me or anyone else. Clear? I am judging no one. I leave that up to those who are trusted with that duty and responsibility.

uglyandthin
[/b][/quote]

He is the one who gave the council to leave, once a person "saw" the disgusting thing standing in "a holy place" or as you say "where it ought not".

When this does occur, and it has not yet, the end will be here. The end is not here yet.

Scrappyd

Desert Blossom

04-26-2009, 07:19 AM

Hi UglyandThin,

I agree with your take on the situation. It's a command from Jesus, and those who are paying attention will know when to flee.

(Revelation 2:14-16) 14*“‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those holding fast the teaching of Ba′laam, who went teaching Ba′lak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication. 15*So you, also, have those holding fast the teaching of the sect of Nic‧o‧la′us likewise. 16*Therefore repent. If you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will war with them with the long sword of my mouth.

*** it-1 pp. 229-230 Baal ***

While the Israelites were camped on the Plains of Moab, King Balak took Balaam up to Bamoth-baal (meaning “High Places of Baal”) to see the mighty throng. (Nu 22:41) After proving unsuccessful in bringing a curse directly upon the Israelites, Balaam advised Balak to lure them into idolatry through temptation to commit sexual immorality with the female idol worshipers of Baal of Peor. Thousands of Israelites succumbed to this temptation and lost their lives.—Nu 22:1–25:18; Re 2:14.

Despite this bitter experience and the clear warnings by Moses and Joshua (De 7:25,*26; Jos 24:15, 19,*20), the Israelites, in taking up residence in the land, began to imitate the remaining Canaanites, apparently with a view to ensuring fertility in their cattle and crops. At the same time, they carried on a pretense of worshiping Jehovah. Following the death of Joshua, wholesale apostasy set in. (Jg 2:11-13; 3:5-8) The people kept altars, poles, and other appendages of Baal worship in their fields, and apparently they listened to their Canaanite neighbors as to how they might please the “owner,” or Baal, of each piece of land. The Israelites were also ensnared by the immoral practices associated with Baal worship. As a result, Jehovah abandoned them to their enemies.

***

Jehovah's Witnesses have been lured into idolatry. I try to talk to local Witnesses, but come up against the brick wall of organizational idolatry every time. If the information doesn't come from their "faithful and discreet slave" then they don't want to hear it. They attach more importance to the words coming from the WT Society, than the words of Jesus that are recorded in the Bible.

Aside from the basic beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, I have little in common with the local JW's. It makes it very difficult to hold any kind of spiritual conversation with them. They have so many beliefs that are tied into the "operation of error" lies that it prevents being able to have any kind of open and honest discussion with them. Really, the only spiritual fellowship I get is from people from this board! So, in regard to the Biblical command of not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, isn't that accomplished through the internet nowadays, since like-minded believers are scattered all over the earth?

It's up to each individual to decide for themselves whether to stay or go. Everyone's circumstances are different. If some still find the congregation as a place where they find comfort, are built up spiritually, and where they get support and genuine love, that's great. Enjoy it while you can. But there are those of us who don't find any of that when we go to the meetings. Instead of leaving feeling built up and encouraged, we feel worse off than before.

Like what happened with U&T, I got to the point where my conscience didn't allow me to be part of the congregation anymore. It was a matter of taking a stand, to show Jehovah where I stood. It wasn't easy, but I followed what my conscience was telling me to do. Some might look at me and say that I cut myself off from Jehovah. Not at all. I actually brought myself into a better situation, one where the Society is not dictating how I worship Jehovah. Instead, I look to our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, to teach me how to worship in spirit and truth.

scrappyd

04-26-2009, 02:03 PM

Jehovah started making his name known through this earthly body a little over 100 years ago. Since then, Satan has eroded the congregation from the inside out. This does though show that evan though we may not like the way things are going, we should know that the congregations and not the internet are the place to be gathering ourselves together.

No group as a whole will ever be happy. Look at Moses when he instituted devorse. Did that make it right that he do it?

I dont think so as when Jesus came to earth, he quickly put an end to it. In the end, each one makes our own choices. I hope we all make the correct one because when that day comes, It will be a scarry one.

All I ever picture is in Indiana Jones, the Ark is opened, and Gods spirit comes out and the people melt that way. I think the bible says that type of thing will happen. I do not want to be anywhere near that.

The bible does not say, until further notice, or until a better means of worshiping is brought forth.

I think the bible talks about this kind of talking. Maybe you will find this by seeking first the kingdom.

Scrappyd

stayawake

04-27-2009, 04:54 AM

Quote:
Just because of ones who have wronged us or others, we must not forget that these are Jehovah's places of worship. His houses. In the proper time, he will cleanse his places of worship, but until then, I felt I must not forsake the gathering of ourselves together. Quote

Hi all
Just wanted to point out , that God does not dwell in hand made Temples, Who is man to think that he can build a house that can contain God ?

Jehovah's Temple is made up of living stones ( the 144,000 ) and this is where His spirit dwells,1 Cor 3;16 Eph 2:21 Acts 7:48
There fore the congregation of God is made up of his adopted sons that will rule with Christ. They are the bride of Christ. Romans 18:5
The admonishment in Hebrews 10:25 was to those that were going to rule with Christ.

Yes , I agree Desert Blossom , there is more sharing scriptures here among the brothers &* sisters on the board then at the Kingdom hall.

Jesus did say , " where there are two/ three gathered in my name I am in your mist."
This is what worshiping in spirit and in truth is all about .John 4 :23-4. where one can freely express what we feel , with out weighing every word.
This freedom is denied the other sheep in the KHs. One cannot go beyond what man has written,

The WT comes first and then The Bible. That's how the LIE of 1914 got into Gods Temple to begin with. No one dares to question the GB . I should not say " no One " as we have many here that have questioned including those who claim the higher calling, that were put out for questioning ... Why ??

Strange isn't it that a Group of men that have replaced Christ as the Shepherd were able to take over his sheep . Not only that but threw out the loyal ones to Jehovah and His son.
Some thing is seriously wrong here.

Speaking only for myself
love stayawake

PS Take notice the WT that e&e put up was from 1999.

This is living proof of how evil the GB is,
Here they are calling the the UN a disgusting thing " par 8 & 9 and yet at the same time they were still a NGO partner with the UN. Now thats what I call disgusting.

shikinah

04-27-2009, 07:52 AM

<div class='quotemain'>Hello Shikinah

I understand what your saying - when i had a few witnesses come to visit me for encouragement - it was quite odd - i was the one wanting to talk about biblical subjects - they didnt seem to care - it was more everyday stuff for them - but they always made sure they put the pressure on me to go to meetings - i was very anxious to do so - i finally let them talk me into it - and it was such a bad experience that i left a crying wreck and just started walking home - cant get myself to go back and they havent come to see me since -

Hi uglyandthin

I wonder sometimes too if the UN situation with the wt is the fullfillment of the sign - but im not sure - when the romans came into Jerusalem - it was the jews they were after not the christians - but if some chistians had not heeded Jesus warning to get out, they would have gotten caught up in the turmoil and maybe died - so i do wonder if any of the jewish surviviors became christians later - which makes me wonder if christendom ,or any religion, gets attached by the red beast - if there will be some who will accept the truth of Jeusus - the wt article mentions there will not be some mass conversion - which would not be possible in the original fulfillment because many died[/b]

Hi Billy2:

The Watchtower does not think there will be a "mass conversion" because they are under the delusion that they are doing the separating work now with thier preaching activity and have been doing so since the 1920's and before. They don't put much stock in the testimony of the two witnesses and somehow believe that this will just be a condemmatory message without the opportunity for individuals to repent. I think the message will be condemnatory as well, but that people will have an opportunity to come out and that they will do it in droves. Remember, Jesus name means "God is Salvation". The same way that he "is" Love, he "is" Salvation, and I think he will live up to Jesus name in a big way. It is hard for me to believe that only 1/10 of 1 % of the population or less will be saved, finally.

Hi Shikinah:

That is not a question that I am able to answer for anyone. You have to make that decision for yourself. I learned about the U.N. affair in about early to mid 2004. I disassociated myself in July 2006. So it ultimately took me a little over 2 years to fully understand (and believe, as I researched it in detail that whole time) the ramifications of thier actions and how it effected me. Jehovah and Jesus will not forsake you. It will not be an easy road, but I for one think it is the right path. God certainly loves his children in the Watchtower, especially those of the remnant (and he will prove it with his discipline), but he will not hold back the necessary discipline and I think the time for that discipline is very near. I have been wrong about the timing of these things before, many times, but I am sure that they will come soon. I would rather have taken Jesus advice and been on the outside when this happens. If you or others feel safer within the restrictive confines of a pen, stay where you are. It is your decision. I will help in any way I can.

uglyandthin
[/b][/quote]

True words, all we can do is rely on Jehovah, he will make it known..confined in a pen is an accurate description.

shikinah

04-27-2009, 08:24 AM

Thanks to all for your awswers, i think its down to endurance and putting up with each other untill the end. And if that means going back to meetings then perhaps thats what i'll have to do. Its so difficult, as i went to a childs birthday party at the weekend, didnt sing or anything and got chatting to some ex witnesses, who i could see still love Jehovah but didnt like what was going on within the wts. They even asked me to give them a study, but where would i start? what book would i study with them now i know the things i know, just study the bible? I guess i have to go back and do things correctly but keep what i know until a later date. Guess i need to pray about it. :Yahoo_51:

noname

04-27-2009, 07:06 PM

Hi Ugly and Thin,

I understand your viewpoint and position. I cant read hearts so I worry about the motives of some on the board. And I want to see more strong truth seekers within the congregations that understand the Watchtowers position more accurately.
For instance I would like you and shikinah in my congregation, so I dont blame anyone for trying to persuade you to go to the meetings.
Exodus 18
"5 So Jeth′ro, Moses' father-in-law, and his sons and his wife came to Moses into the wilderness where he was camping, at the mountain of the [true] God. "

"27 After that Moses saw his father-in-law off, and he went his way to his land"

Hi shikinah,

You can study with them the "Jehovah Himself Has Become King" Book.