"You Think The Bible Is All You Need?"

[SlaveForJah]

So, I was asked this question. And my answer was a resounding "yes". I gave scripture to back up my position, but was met with claims of apostasy and grieving the Spirit for daring to say that the publications weren't absolutely necessary.

Am I wrong, or do we need more than the Bible?

If I am correct, does anyone have any ideas as to how to combat the teaching that the publications and their attendant traditions are necessary and of vital importance?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[FutureMan]

So, I was asked this question. And my answer was a resounding "yes". I gave scripture to back up my position, but was met with claims of apostasy and grieving the Spirit for daring to say that the publications weren't absolutely necessary.

Am I wrong, or do we need more than the Bible?

If I am correct, does anyone have any ideas as to how to combat the teaching that the publications and their attendant traditions are necessary and of vital importance?


Agape

SlaveForJah

(2 John 9) 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son.

(1 John 4:6-7) 6 We originate with God. He that gains the knowledge of God listens to us; he that does not originate with God does not listen to us. This is how we take note of the inspired expression of truth and the inspired expression of error. 7 Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God.

(1 John 5:20) 20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.

(1 John 2:9-11) 9 He that says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness up to right now. 10 He that loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in his case. 11 But he that hates his brother is in the darkness and is walking in the darkness, and he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

(2 Peter 1:19-21) . . .. 20 For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

(2 Timothy 2:18-19) 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. 19 For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.”

(2 Timothy 3:7) 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

(1 Timothy 6:2-5) . . .. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain. . .

(1 Timothy 6:20-21) 20 O Timothy, guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” 21 For making a show of such [knowledge] some have deviated from the faith.. . .

(2 Thessalonians 2:1-2) . . .YOU 2 not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

(1 Thessalonians 4:1-2) 4 Finally, brothers, we request YOU and exhort YOU by the Lord Jesus, just as YOU received [the instruction] from us on how YOU ought to walk and please God, just as YOU are in fact walking, that YOU would keep on doing it more fully. 2 For YOU know the orders we gave YOU through the Lord Jesus.

[Desert Blossom]

Wow, what an impressive list of scriptures FutureMan! Thanks for putting that together, I will keep that in mind for future reference, since it seems that SFJ and I are having similar discussions outside of this site.

My most recent discussion is with an elder in another country, he's a former business associate. He has had some good questions for me. So far, so good. He's promised to research the issues I have raised, such as things not matching up with the explanations in the Revelation Climax book.

Speaking of the Revelation Climax book, SFJ, that may be a great tool to use. If the Revelation Climax book was written with holy spirit directing the project, then why has the organization been required to do 4 pages of edits? If Jesus was directing things, why did he not get things right the first time around? Are there things in that book that are based on incorrect understandings from over 100 years ago? Yes, because Russell's incorrect understandings go back to the late 1800's and are the foundation of the operation of error (the belief that Jesus already returned).

If you can get a person to look into Russell's writings, then it becomes obvious that he was in error about all of the dates he set up as important. He was so sure about 1914 being the time when the saints would be raptured to heaven....that is, until time proved him to be mistaken. Then he revised his thinking, and decided that the 42 months of tribulation had started in October of 1914. A good question to ask here is, why, when things did not turn out as anticipated in April of 1918, why didn't the ones in charge admit that they were wrong?

According to the timelines that Russell was promoting just prior to his death, Armageddon should have erupted in the spring of 1918. When that didn't happen, why didn't the organization just crumble and fall apart? Isn't that what happens to most of these self-styled prophets who promote their own ideas? Given time to think about that, a reasoning person has to realize that there must have been a reason why the org. kept on going, instead of dissolving and falling apart. This may be an opening to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. If you can get your audience to reason on those scriptures, maybe the light will turn on.

It will be hard to get a person who is faithful to the Society to realize how the literature is being used as one of Satan's snares. You kind of have to present information, along with a few questions, and let them draw the conclusion themselves. The sisters who studied with me many years ago were good at that. I had a lot of questions, but they made me answer them myself by helping me to learn how to reason on the scriptures. I remember how they used to work my brain over! They were very patient with me, and gave me the time I needed to connect the dots.

If you can work it into the conversation, it may be helpful to point out that the good and faithful slave and the evil slave reside in the same household up until the harvest time. I think that's important to establish because there needs to be an explanation of why or how the same organization can be publishing both good and harmful information at the same time.

Also, the friends are under the mistaken idea that the man of lawlessness is the clergy of Christendom. To make any headway, you have to get them to see from the scriptures that the clergy of Christendom is not the man of lawlessness. One point I use is that the clergy of Christendom have never been in a covenant relationship with Jehovah, they don't even know who Jehovah is. They worship a triune God, not the true God Jehovah. They believe that Jesus is God. There's a footnote in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 on verse 4 that shows that the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of the true God. Therefore, whoever the man of lawlessness is, he is not going to be found in the churches of Christendom, he's going to be found right among Jehovah's people.

It kind of boils down to this, a person either recognizes that Jehovah's Witnesses are the modern day group of people who are Jehovah's people or they are not. That should be easy to establish with your audience. This is the bridge that will take you to the point where you establish that the judgment scriptures apply to his people too, not Christendom. The reason why the Society has been so successful in divvying up the scriptures between Jehovah's Witnesses and Christendom is because they use selected scriptural quotes at selected times. If you can get your audience to consider whole chapters and whole books at one time, then the light is going to come on....as long as they are praying for holy spirit to help them to understand the scriptures.

I wish you well in your endeavors! If you get stuck with a person who won't reason on the scriptures, maybe a picture will be worth a thousand words. Show them the demon claw hand on page 52 in the Revelation Climax book and ask them why it has been allowed to remain there for the past 21 years.

[FutureMan]

Hello Desert Blossom, and thanks for your compliment.

I will simply say this and that it is my belief that God only works through various individuals and not a man-made organization.
So this is why we get some truths and non truths in all the Christian religions of this world, because God only dispenses truth through certain individuals while they are in good standing as a Christian before him.

You of course will not have failed to notice that God only used the righteous and faithful ones to be prophets before Christ came to the earth.
The same applied to the early Christian congregation only those that were living in harmony with the holy spirit were given important assignments by the Holy Spirit, such as evangelizing and healing and even resurrection in some cases.

[Jeshurun]

does anyone have any ideas as to how to combat the teaching that the publications and their attendant traditions are necessary and of vital importance?


Slave, this is tantamount to asking them to dump 1914, dump the FDS doctrine, or worse, to stop the presses... and we all know that ain't happening anytime soon... at least not voluntarily...

love,
jesh

[SlaveForJah]

Slave, this is tantamount to asking them to dump 1914, dump the FDS doctrine, or worse, to stop the presses... and we all know that ain't happening anytime soon... at least not voluntarily...

love,
jesh

Interestingly, I related how I no longer believe in 1914. When asked why, I said it cannot be found in the Scriptures. It was this comment that led to the topic of this thread being broached.

When asked about "Bible Chronology", I decided not to pull out the "pyramidology" card, and rather offered that the Revelation book flat out lies about the position originally held by the Bible Students in regards to Bible Chronology and 1914. I was, as was to be expected, told that I was lying and that any information contrary to what the Society says is "just lies and sour grapes by apostates and those with an axe to grind against the Society."

It's thoroughly frustrating to be unable to reason and discuss things logically because of the idolatry of the "faithful and discreet slave" and their writings.

I was told to wait on Jehovah to straighten out any inconsistencies within Watchtower doctrine and that He has recently done so with the "generation" "new light". However, they were unwilling even to accept the fact that the CURRENT "new light" on the "generation" is actually a return to OLD "new light" on the "generation" from the 30s and 40s. It is one thing to have a revealing of heretofore hidden truths, but the truth isn't something that flip-flops. Maybe one change. Maybe two or three. But regardless of the number of changes, it stands to reason that it wouldn't GO BACK to a former "present truth", long since "disproved" or "revealed" as false, only to be adopted once more as "present truth". I believe Paul addressed this syndrome.

Ephesians 4:11-16


Frustrated

SlaveForJah

[arimatthewdavies]

jesus said you are searching the scripture because you think by means of them you will have eternal life but these speak of me! yet you refuse to come to me..brothers and sisters make sure sure sure that you know jesus and he knows you! our thousands of bible aids are nice tools to help you study,the bible is the written map to jesus... jesus takes us to jehovah. please remember many of gods faithful servants of old had no bible at all,so brothers and sisters the answer to is the bible all we need. absoulutley big fat no!! we need a personal relationship with jehovah through jesus christ,we need to pray and listen....as well as read bible or its study aids, with no disrespect to the w.b.t.s.make sure your message is jehovah/jesus not and i repeat not this literature here!in my hand ..its wonderfull to leave a publication after you confess jesus with your mouth!!... when is the last time you personaly said hello freind im joe im out today to let you know jesus christ my lord is extending to you free the gift of eternal life, read john 3.16 freind here is our latest study aid. then leave! return to that territory next week and rework the whole thing over.you will find this simple method draws sheep like crazy! and it dosent give the goats a snowballs chance in ghena! sighned your brother in christ arimatthewdavies

[TheMdC]

Perhaps this suggestion might help.

Rather than try to convince a brother or sister that the magazines and books aren't necessary, approach it as one obedient to the FDS.

Tell them that you have noticed A LOT of encouragement in the magazines and KMs about reading The Bible and that it is clear the GB is concerned that we are focusing too much on literature that is not the Bible and not enough on The Bible itself. Then tell them that following the FDS's direction, you have implemented Family Worship Night in your home (even if you're single, this is good) and that you have been using just the Bible and prayer and meditating/reasoning on what you've read. Explain about how it has drawn you closer to God and to Jesus and then encourage them to do the same. Explain how it sharpens us in our knowledge of the scriptures in preparation for the Great Tribulation, in obedience to the FDS.

It's a first, non-confrontational step toward getting them to study and think on their own.

When they ask, but what if I don't understand something? Do I look it up in the WT then?

Tell them to first pray, then use the cross references in the Bible itself (it's what they're there for) to read other related scriptures. If they keep doing these things, understanding will come from Jehovah.

You can support all of these suggestions scripturally AND with society publications. So how can they argue with that?

[billy2]

at the meeting today i waited quite awhile for a scripture to be used during the public talk - and once the speaker mentioned one i latched onto it - as usual not much surrounding scirptures were read - i spent quite a while reading the surrounding sciptures myself - of which were far moreinteresting and motivatiing than todays public talk - i also felt the speaker was throwing in a few of his own judgements and ideas which i found irritating

during the wt study i mainly read the referred scriptures and quite abit of the surrrounding verses- as i didnt have a wt anyway - and found a few comments were misapplied by some commenting

i observed a much stonger connection with Jehovah when i focused more on the scriptures

so my conclusion on "You Think The Bible Is All You Need?" would be it should be 90% of the talks, and study

[Jeshurun]

It is a gross understatement to say that the Bible is confusing and difficult to understand, as it testifies of itself in places like the 29th chapter of Isaiah and the 12th chapter of Daniel.

Mark 4:11,12 says, “To YOU the sacred secret of the kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things occur in illustrations, 12 in order that, though looking, they may look and yet not see, and, though hearing, they may hear and yet not get the sense of it, nor ever turn back and forgiveness be given them.”

So this says clearly, in my opinion, that there is a secret understanding not only to the parables but many of the stories that are given as straightforward accounts. For instance, Mary Magdalene was said to have a legion of demons that Jesus exorcised from her... and she was supposedly a prostitute...I never could understand how somebody in such a horrific state could attract clients for sex... but the allegorical interpretation of that is much more profound and deep, and certainly makes more sense. If those demons are egos within our psyche, and that is what they are according to the "apocryphal" books that the Nicene Council rejected from the canon, then the message of Mary Magdalene takes on a very personal connotation.

The same is true for the stories of the Old Testament. I understand that this is controversial, but there is plenty of evidence around that many of those accounts were far from original... Moses and the Red Sea, Noah's Ark, Cain and Abel, Adam & Eve and the tree of life... all of these can be far better explained as allegories...they spring to life with rich meaning to symbolize how to dissolve ego and awaken consciousness. All of a sudden the Bible goes from confusing and contradictory to harmonious, beautiful and profound. It is then confirmed as the Divine Wisdom that we have all suspected or believed it to be. As literal stories, they carry little significant meaning to impact our lives today, in my opinion of course.

So the point is that I believe that no, we do not need outside help in understanding the Bible. We need prayer, meditation and to practice what we preach, to understand what the Bible is trying to teach us. If we sincerely try to live our lives in harmony with God's law, which is simply to love God and love thy neighbor, then if we ask, it will surely be given to us. However it comes from within, the Godly intuition we all came into this world with and developed and nurtured as we matured. Deep down inside we all know the truth, we just have to knock down the walls created by our egos....but we need to understand exactly what egos are, we have to understand how are psyche has been programmed...

Egos are simply an effect from a cause. Behavior psychologists have discovered that just about everything we do is ‘a conditioned response (effect) to a stimulus (cause)’. Like an animal that is trained to hear a bell and get food, ringing the bell makes it salivate. So as we grew, we developed a set pattern of responses to various stimuli. We get a loving feeling toward someone when they act lovingly towards us, or we get a reaction of fear if someone, even a loved one, does something (action-stimulus) towards us in an aggressive manner. It sets off a response (effect) of protection from fear (stimulus) by cowering away (effect). Studies of our neuro-pathways has shown that all of this is looped together within our minds. The action comes in and our mind decides which file to open for the response. This is how anger begets war and kindness begets love. They are all cause-effect, stimulus responses. In essence, we put very little real thought or consciousness into most of our actions, but instead we are programmed to be re-active to stimuli.

This has formed the basis of "who" we are, and how we will react to any given situation. As most of these responses were formed in our younger years, we say that they have become ‘conditioned’ responses as we have used them over and over, depending on various situations we encounter. When a response is used over and over it becomes quicker when the stimulus is presented, due to the fact that we have honed the neuro-pathway from our mind (thought) to the brain-data bank storage area where the reply has been filed. This is how the best sports people and intelligent minds hone their skills; as they want this response to act as quickly as possible.

So the point I'm trying to make it that many of our problems are psychological, and the Bible's stories, whether literal or not, have an underlying message that explains this psychology through allegory and gives profound insight and wisdom in how to truly love thy neighbor. In the first two commandments is the secret to immortality. We simply have to be like Jesus, give unconditionally while expecting nothing in return. Pure LOVE!

Love,
Jesh

[Jinnvisible]

I never could understand how somebody in such a horrific state could attract clients for sex... but the allegorical interpretation of that is much more profound and deep, and certainly makes more sense. If those demons are egos within our psyche,

Why would the clients of a prostitute care what kind of spiritual state thier hire was in ? They intend to have sex with them not long an meaningfull spirtitual conversations.

As far as demons being egos within the psyche it makes no sense to the Gospel accounts. If that were true they wouldn`t exist outside of people, yet Jesus cast them out.

Jesus also let them go into a bunch of pigs. Would you then suggest that these farm animals were suffering from psycological problems having difficulties because they couldn`t celebrate Christmass when they were piglets ? or that they were suffering from repressed memories and needed some kind of psycological counseling ? It would mean that not only do humans get Swine flu but also share Pig counsellors.

Sounds like a `pork pie` as the cockerny say


The same is true for the stories of the Old Testament. I understand that this is controversial, but there is plenty of evidence around that many of those accounts were far from original... Moses and the Red Sea, Noah's Ark, Cain and Abel, Adam & Eve and the tree of life... all of these can be far better explained as allegories...

You are off the reservation. What you are talking about is a modern world false perspective of the bible. That the bible is myth and allegory.


As literal stories, they carry little significant meaning to impact our lives today, in my opinion of course.

The morality of the ancient tales in the bible is as valuable and relavent today as when it was written. That they are litteral does not lessen thier significance whatsoever.


we need to understand exactly what egos are, we have to understand how are psyche has been programmed...

But if you yourself, are still progtramed with false information you might only be kidding yourself that you have a true perspective.

This is certainly reminisant of a particular kind of arrogance that is bred in the modern world. That we are less fools than the ancients.


We simply have to be like Jesus, give unconditionally while expecting nothing in return. Pure LOVE!

Love,
Jesh

Once again I cannot find agreement with you Jeshurun. I don`t suppose you willl find that too surprising.

This was posted by Panda, from some research on the subject.

It's true that we are supposed to love even our enemies. But should our love be unconditional?

Consider this excerpt from Musings about God website.

Unconditional Love:

A deceptively deceptive concept. Basically it's saying " you have to love and accept me no matter what I do". It is actually Satan's demand to God. Unconditional Love does not, and should not exist. It shows no consideration for the giver, and no responsibility on the part of the receiver. That doesn't sound like love to me. Think about this scripture, 1 John 4:19.

It says 'as for us, we love, because he first loved us.' So you see, even our love of God is conditional.

Some would assert that a mother's love for her new-born is unconditional. The correct term would be "unmeasureable". Her love for the infant is because it is an infant, and it is hers, those are the conditions.

When we say 'unconditional love', if we are a truly responsible and fair person, maybe what we really mean is we want to receive (or give) unselfish love.

Like so many things from Satan it sounds good, but on closer examination it's not so good. Doesn't the Bible say that Satan would transform himself into an angel of light? (2 Corinthians 11:14)

[truthseeker]

I'm so grateful you chimed in JINN with those rational bells your so adept at ringing.
Jeshurun reasonings sounded good but my bible trained inner voice kept saying, -
8 Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ; 9 because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.

Acctually many of the scriptures you quoted wher coming to mind:

And doesn't this fit in well with todays lesson, all the fullness and knowledge of god is fulfilled in the Christ.
Jesus quotes from the scriptures copiously and never once did he say they were allegory's and just story's that were meant to exorcises demons from are psyche.
He believed fully as did Peter that there was once a world standing compactly out of water that was deluged with water for the destruction of ungodly men, and that there is also a world now stored up for fire (a complete cleansing of not only ungodly men but of all the institutions that caused the problems,) - Babylon the Great - the world governments and the false prophet - to be replaced by a New Heavens and a New Earth in which righteousness will dwell. Not to any in born Ego but real visible road blocks to Jehovah's original purposes.
End of Story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love truthseeker

[Juan23]

So, I was asked this question. And my answer was a resounding "yes". I gave scripture to back up my position, but was met with claims of apostasy and grieving the Spirit for daring to say that the publications weren't absolutely necessary.

Am I wrong, or do we need more than the Bible?

If I am correct, does anyone have any ideas as to how to combat the teaching that the publications and their attendant traditions are necessary and of vital importance?


Agape

SlaveForJah

In my case I was asked "Can you understand the bible without explanation from the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” Of course I can except for maybe a few areas, which up to now is sealed.

I was explaining about the beast that had the sword stroke and then recovered. Part of what I said touched on events that occur at the start the GT. I contradicted the bro who maintained that the destruction of BTG would start the GT. I said the disciplining of God's people would probably happen at the start of the GT and showed scripture, which indicate that it was so, and then I was asked if I could understand the bible.

[Desert Blossom]

In my case I was asked "Can you understand the bible without explanation from the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” Of course I can except for maybe a few areas, which up to now is sealed.

I was explaining about the beast that had the sword stroke and then recovered. Part of what I said touched on events that occur at the start the GT. I contradicted the bro who maintained that the destruction of BTG would start the GT. I said the disciplining of God's people would probably happen at the start of the GT and showed scripture, which indicate that it was so, and then I was asked if I could understand the bible.

Hi Juan,

I have yet to find a JW who can answer my question, "When Fred Franz came out in 1969 and admitted that the great tribulation hadn't started yet, why didn't the Society go back and re-write everything?"

It seems that the Bible Students had a better understanding of the order of events. All those who didn't agree with Rutherford's new doctrines left the org. and Rutherford referred to them as the evil slave class. How sad that he would do that, since he wasn't right either.

[TheMdC]

What's interesting to me is that the really important parts of the Bible that apply to how we should live and act are completely unambiguous.

James 1:27: The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

Mark 12:29,30: Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

etc.

It is the prophetic parts of the Bible that demand rigorous study and accurate knowledge to interpret; it is those parts who we require a faithful and discreet slave to help us understand. Yet, in an incredible piece of irony, it is these same parts of the Bible that the WT have consistently gotten wrong for going on a century and a half now. And yet despite a clear record of ineptitude at prophetic interpretation we're supposed to trust their "present truth" without question because they claim to be THE faithful and discreet slave.

[Utuna]

Hi Juan,

I have yet to find a JW who can answer my question, "When Fred Franz came out in 1969 and admitted that the great tribulation hadn't started yet, why didn't the Society go back and re-write everything?"

It seems that the Bible Students had a better understanding of the order of events. All those who didn't agree with Rutherford's new doctrines left the org. and Rutherford referred to them as the evil slave class. How sad that he would do that, since he wasn't right either.

Dear Desertblossom,

I like your post very much!

If I follow your reasoning till its logical conclusion, does it mean that a significant number of false understandings (and even lies) came out when the GB decided, no matter when in the past or now, that they could do it all without their other anointed brothers? It reminds me something recently published, can't remember what.... lol :p :D

How strange is the way the errors of the past repeat themselves!

---------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[TheMdC]

Interestingly, they seem to forget that a non-GB anointed one (Paul) chewed out the one many consider the head of the GB (Peter) and that GB member apparently took the counsel and humbly accepted it. Galatians 2:11-21 He certainly didn't disfellowship the apostle Paul.

Of course, I don't personally believe there was any such GB system in place at the time, but the ones who do should certainly learn the lesson from it.

[FutureMan]

Hi Juan,

I have yet to find a JW who can answer my question, "When Fred Franz came out in 1969 and admitted that the great tribulation hadn't started yet, why didn't the Society go back and re-write everything?"

It seems that the Bible Students had a better understanding of the order of events. All those who didn't agree with Rutherford's new doctrines left the org. and Rutherford referred to them as the evil slave class. How sad that he would do that, since he wasn't right either.

Remember the Standfasters how they stood there ground on the war-bonds issue and the 1st world war.

Yet they were ostracized by the organization because of this at that time.


They believed in being completely neutral as far as the 1st world war was concerned even when our brothers were not so neutral when it came to things pertaining to the 1st world war.

[arimatthewdavies]

dear everyone who reads this,i am one of jehovahs witnesses,and since no body has corrected certain said errors ,I will do so now, men in powerful positions wrote and talked about dates.thats not the job of any jehovahs wittness,im sorry. it is the personal responsability of every jehovahs witnesses to glorify jehovahs name,with the gospel jesus taught,nothing more nothing less,the gospel jesus taught can not be improved on, it is the responsible duty of all jehovahs wittnesses to see to it that if something is said or written for public veiwing that is not bible fact,the written word of god} that the person or persons states plainley that this information is what i beleive jehovah said, not this is the word of jehovah. the bible orders that prophecys be conducted in this manner.I do not preach anything exept the bible gospel.now acording to matt 18.15 you have a personal obligation to confront face to face the ofender who sined against you, if that persons dead his sins are forgivin,if not you must personaly confront the siner face to face,example john smith wrote on the wall 5 years ago is it proper to say john smiths 4th cousin is a vandal for wall writeing no of course not,so if your offended by a certain author,either stand up to him like a man of god or do his job yourself,i remind all my real name is on my posts and i promise to give the best bible advice i can if i offend you i want to know so i can make it right, acording to the bibles way

[arimatthewdavies]

i want to invite everyone who wants eternal life ,health and happiness to join with me in jesus christs simple program,repent of sin become baptised beleive in him with you heart confess him with your mouth,i or anyone of jehovahs wittnesses will be happy to give you free bible study to help you reach your goal

[TheMdC]

I'm not sure what your first sentence means, Ari, but e-Watchman has quite effectively corrected errors put forth by the org, letting the Bible interpret itself, for the most part. It got him DF'd. The org isn't going to correct their errors no matter what we say to them; their errors are going to be corrected for them by our King Jesus Christ, as prophesied.

[arimatthewdavies]

dear watchman,they can disfellowship you but if your serving jehovah and you know it.you are still one of jehovahs witnesses no man can remove you from jehovahs favor or disfavor exept you. at the risk of me being in deep doooo doooo I will tell you what a sister of the anointed class told me "remember your job is to serve jehovah not the wbts." she was quite a hard worker in jehovahs service, it is my understanding that the orders of one of the anointed are to be taken seriously and I do not qustion her order,im sorry the organization has done things of contraversy,I know jehovah will set it right, I've never advocated apostacy to anyone ,but you can know if your right with jehovah,by honest prayers to him if anyman is ordering you to do something that jehovah says no to rebuke that one in the name of jesus christ the very same as if he were a demon.keep clean before jehovah and let him deal with wickedness going up against anyone biger then yourself dosent turn out good,the very best rightous outcome to you brother in the name of jesus christ

[imjustaskin]

What's interesting to me is that the really important parts of the Bible that apply to how we should live and act are completely unambiguous.

James 1:27: The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

Mark 12:29,30: Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”


Well put! I have always felt that Jehovah will make sure honest-hearted ones understand what they need in order to please him. There are certainly parts of the Bible I do not understand in absolute detail. But those are not parts that will prevent me from doing what I need to do DAY TO DAY to serve Jehovah.

I had the same thoughts when we were going through the Rev book. It is all so speculative! And really unnecessary. When we are in the middle of it it will be completely obvious.

BTW, I looked on page 52 and can't find the demon claw???? But I've always been bad with I Spy....:-)

[Moriah]

Oops i just opened a thread concerning this question. I do believe that the bible is all we need. I think it will be great WTBS to stop the presses and just distribute Jehovah's word, because its Yah written word, and we can learn who he is, and learn from him.

But that's just me.

[watchman]

Oops i just opened a thread concerning this question. I do believe that the bible is all we need. I think it will be great WTBS to stop the presses and just distribute Jehovah's word, because its Yah written word, and we can learn who he is, and learn from him.

But that's just me.

Millions of people read the Bible but I have never met anyone who has ever understood it on their own. I think the facts pretty much speak for themselves.

[FutureMan]

Millions of people read the Bible but I have never met anyone who has ever understood it on their own. I think the facts pretty much speak for themselves.

You right there Watchman, that is why we need to continuously pray for God's Holy Spirit to help us to understand, for we most likely will not understand things on our own.

Perhaps the Holy Spirit will reveal this to us through different ones who have the Spirit and perhaps it will reveal it to us directly through the scriptures, it does depend on the situation I think and how much knowledge we have of God's word ourselves and our ability to perceive.

But we must keep in mind that Jesus did tell his followers that the Holy Spirit would teach us personally.

Luke 12 [LITV]
11 But when they bring you in before synagogues and rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious how or what you shall reply, or what you should say;
12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in the same hour what you ought to say.

[truthseeker]

Millions of people read the Bible but I have never met anyone who has ever understood it on their own. I think the facts pretty much speak for themselves.

Care to exspound! brother!
truthseeker:D

[Moriah]

Millions of people read the Bible but I have never met anyone who has ever understood it on their own. I think the facts pretty much speak for themselves.

Well i cant speak about the whole world because i dont know everyone. I really dont think its up to us to understand it, if Jehovah wants us to understand his written word he will give us that insight. So i dont think with our state of mine that we can learn who Yah really is. It's his knowledge and he sees our heart.

[shikinah]

Well i cant speak about the whole world because i dont know everyone. I really dont think its up to us to understand it, if Jehovah wants us to understand his written word he will give us that insight. So i dont think with our state of mine that we can learn who Yah really is. It's his knowledge and he sees our heart.

I tend to agree with you on this, Jesus said we are to become as little children and the truth is fairly simple if we see it from a childlike perspective. Jehovah is Love the son he created demonstrated this perfect love while on earth as a model for us to follow and Gods holy spirit is his acting force.
This simple knowledge is the key to greater understanding which is directed by Gods holy spirit.
Yes deeper understanding seems to have come about by seemingly many minds together working on deeper prophesy, but this too has also proven to be a double edge sword as we have seen within the Watchtower. But as we know through the scriptures, Jehovah draws out those of the right heart condition to him. As I mentioned from a previous post, I had spoken to a young man who had only studied the bible for about a year and a half, and his understanding was unbelievable, and what he did was ask questions and studied the bible with a few denominations not magazines, only the questions he needed answering. And his knowledge is as good as what took me thirty years to gain through studying from the awake and watchtower publications. I admit I have learnt much more since studying on my own and being on this site than I did in my previous thirty years as i hardly ever took up the bible except for the times it was quoted in the magazines, and that was a particular scripture at a time. What I was good at reciting was that armageddon was near and mathew 24, but never got a real grasp of Jesus role in the grand scheme of things as I do now.


Blessings
Shikinah

[Eyes & Ears]

I need Jehovah's Spirit and I need to share and exchange with others.

I do not need a multitude of books. It is all these books that have made me

personally a tad coo coo. I am not saying the publications should not be

read, but to be honest, I do not study them any more. I glance through them,

if I find something interesting I may check out a scripture. It is all these

books that have overwhelmed me personally. That is the honest truth. They

have always overwhelmed me because it is just too much (my opinion) I

respect all those who have gained insight from them. But for me now

with all respect, I use the Bible, I pray and ask Jehovah for his Holy Spirit. As has

been mentioned Jesus helped us understand about the Holy Spirit that will

help us recall.

(JN 14:26)

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will TEACH YOU ALL THINGS AND BRING BACK TO YOUR MINDS ALLL THE THINGS I TOLD YOU.

I ask Jehovah to help me understand what I need to help myself and others.

After over 35 years running in and out of this organization like a nut chicken with

its head cut off, I have had it. If Jehovah's Holy Spirit cannot help me

understand than it's over for me. I'm tired and I want the light yoke, not

to be weighed down by a spiritual book bag full of books that change

every time ya turn around. I want Jehovah, he does not change. I feel as

though what I get from the scriptures now is all I need to do Jehovah's

will as he asked me to do. When he is ready for me to understand

the very deep things that many now express their understanding or

personal opinion, then he will open that understanding to me

until then, I have had it. No more. I will accept what Jehovah gives me

deal with it, be patient and wait on the details of the deeper things that

are not yet open to us. Jehovah has never and will never leave us

hanging. That is what I believe as I stay on the watch and pay attention

to how I listen. (LU 8:18)


E & E


Lu 8:18 (GOOD NEWS BIBLE)

"Be careful, then, how you listen; because those who have something will be given more, but whoever has nothing will have taken away from them even the little they think they have."


Proverbs 3:5-7 (GOOD NEWS BIBLE)

Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Never rely on what you think you know.

Remember the Lord in everything you do and he will show you the right way.

Never let yourself think that you are wiser than you are; simply obey the Lord and refuse to do wrong.


May Jehovah be with us all as we continue to worship him in SPIRIT and in truth.

Good night everyone.

[Moriah]

I need Jehovah's Spirit and I need to share and exchange with others.

I do not need a multitude of books. It is all these books that have made me

personally a tad coo coo. I am not saying the publications should not be

read, but to be honest, I do not study them any more. I glance through them,

if I find something interesting I may check out a scripture. It is all these

books that have overwhelmed me personally. That is the honest truth. They

have always overwhelmed me because it is just too much (my opinion) I

respect all those who have gained insight from them. But for me now

with all respect, I use the Bible, I pray and ask Jehovah for his Holy Spirit. As has

been mentioned Jesus helped us understand about the Holy Spirit that will

help us recall.

(JN 14:26)

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will TEACH YOU ALL THINGS AND BRING BACK TO YOUR MINDS ALLL THE THINGS I TOLD YOU.

I ask Jehovah to help me understand what I need to help myself and others.

After over 35 years running in and out of this organization like a nut chicken with

its head cut off, I have had it. If Jehovah's Holy Spirit cannot help me

understand than it's over for me. I'm tired and I want the light yoke, not

to be weighed down by a spiritual book bag full of books that change

every time ya turn around. I want Jehovah, he does not change. I feel as

though what I get from the scriptures now is all I need to do Jehovah's

will as he asked me to do. When he is ready for me to understand

the very deep things that many now express their understanding or

personal opinion, then he will open that understanding to me

until then, I have had it. No more. I will accept what Jehovah gives me

deal with it, be patient and wait on the details of the deeper things that

are not yet open to us. Jehovah has never and will never leave us

hanging. That is what I believe as I stay on the watch and pay attention

to how I listen. (LU 8:18)


E & E


Lu 8:18 (GOOD NEWS BIBLE)

"Be careful, then, how you listen; because those who have something will be given more, but whoever has nothing will have taken away from them even the little they think they have."


Proverbs 3:5-7 (GOOD NEWS BIBLE)

Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Never rely on what you think you know.

Remember the Lord in everything you do and he will show you the right way.

Never let yourself think that you are wiser than you are; simply obey the Lord and refuse to do wrong.


May Jehovah be with us all as we continue to worship him in SPIRIT and in truth.

Good night everyone.

Than you for sharing. :)