WT Study for October 4, 2009

[James]

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[Jinnvisible]

There is some uplifting writing in the article.

I’m not at all convinced by the reasoning given for the figurative sons of faith to be restricted to 144 000.

“Jehovah had told Abraham that his seed would be “multiplied like the stars in the heavens and the grains of sand that are on the seashore.” A number unknown to Abraham, yet later that number was revealed. Jesus Christ and the 144 000……” Watchtower.

Genesis 22:17 I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies

The first fulfillment of this is literal and genetic. Abraham’s offspring included the Nation of Israel.

There is nothing in the texts restricting those with faith to only being the 144 000 as being heirs to the kingdom. The Earth is also a part of that Kingdom that there are those who are promised it as an inheritance for their faith.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

This text from Revelation on the great crowd also appears very much as being innumerable as was Abraham’s literal [and figurative] offspring.

Revelation 7:9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands

So the society is taking these kinds of texts such as Galatians 3:29 and suggesting that because Paul was writing ostensibly to a congregation of anointed heirs that the context can only be limited to that, which doesn’t make much sense and is a restriction that hasn’t been properly qualified in the reasoning given.

Galatians 3:29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.

For instance, this text is obviously written to the Galatians yet it wasn’t just limited to the Galatians because of that fact. You would need some other qualifying factor to imply that. Q.E.D.

Abraham is expected to appear again on the earth. So how is it possible to suggest that he is so great that those considered his figurative heirs are too great to walk the earth? That only a heavenly being could be bestowed that honor?

Abraham was in a covenant because of his faith yet the Covenant itself was not intended as a limitation of faith. As the prophet stated in regard to the Pharisees claims upon Abraham, Jehovah God is able to raise up sons (hiers) from the rocks.

The meek that will inherit the earth as an abode, surviving the judgment of Jehovah’s day, do so on the basis of the faith that they expressed in Christ and they are said to come into this inheritance as an innumerable great crowd. Joining these eventually will be Abraham himself.

Suggesting that these people of faith are not figurative hiers is a division of faith. During his life and ministry Christ explained to certain Jews that although they were both literal hiers of Abraham and in a literal covenant with Jehovah they were at risk of being disqualified from being hiers and receiving their inheritance. This emphatically produces the notion that in heritance is not covenant based but faith based. You can keep faith with God, yet you cannot hold God legally libel. The covenant is a methodology but the reward is through faith.

That those who have faith are inherit life and are therefore hiers. Those who have faith and inherit the earth as an abode receive the same inheritance as Abraham.

[The Way]

Hi Jinnvisible: You're making some valid points I can generally agree with. I too think the seed of Abraham is not restricted to 1 + 144.000 alone. I agree that faith is what is most important in God's eyes. Natural Israelites were rejected by God because of their lack of faith despite being in a covenantal relationship with God. The Jews were Abraham's literal sons but no sons of Abraham to faith, because they (in general) didn't do "the works of Abraham", namely exercising faith. (John 8:31-40) Abraham on the other hand was counted as righteous because of his faith, before God made any covenant with him. So covenant follows faith, but it's faith which is counted as righteousness, not the other way round. Although I think it's only right and commendable to formally seal one's faith by an outward symbol like baptism or by entering into a covenantal relationship once we have understood the proper meaning of the covenant concerned.

I will add my own view on this and other topics in this WT study article (and some personal speculation too ;)), given out of my love for personal Bible study and burning desire for truth.


Par. 6 - The seed (= offspring, descendents) of Abraham

"Like the stars of the heavens" is generally used in the Bible te denote an innumerable, uncountable quantity or multitude, a greatly multiplied amount. (Gen. 15:5; Deut. 1:10-11; 10:22) It is applied to natural Israel which quickly outnumbered 144.000 or that order of magnitude! (Num. 26:51) King David didn't want to count those in Israel of age twenty and under because of this very promise, out of respect for the unlimited, unrestricted nature of the seed. (1 Chron. 27:23). Contrast this with the very definite and limited number given in the Bible of 144.000.
Abraham is called "the father of all those having faith". (Rom. 4:11)

I would suggest the following scheme (not claiming it's perfect or complete!):

(1) The single ROOT or ancestor of the seed (that is to the spirit, to faith): Jesus Christ, the First, the Firstborn from the dead, the root and trunk of the tree.
Jesus will become the Father in eternity of many many descendents because they will have everlasting life through him, whether in heaven or on earth (Isa. 9:6). Yes, Jesus is the not only the offspring of David and Abraham, he will also become the root of David and of Abraham as well in the resurrection! (Rev. 22:16).

(2) The "first generation" of the seed: the 144.000, the firstfruits (Rev. 14:4; James 1:18), the first resurrection, in heaven. They're also the main branches of the tree.
By means of the priestly services of Jesus and the 144.000 the 'many' from "all nations of the earth" will be brought to everlasting life and its blessings. I think they will actually become part of the seed too, but it all happens through the first generation of the seed.

(3) The "second generation" of the seed: the general, second resurrection on earth, whether a resurrection of life for the righteous ones (believers receiving an earthly reward), or a resurrection of judgment for the unrighteous ones ("the whole world"). These could also be viewed as secondary, side branches on the tree.

The seed "will take possession of the gate of his enemies", especially by conquering death and giving life to all mankind. (Gen. 22:17)

(1 Corinthians 15:22-26) For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.

Just as we are all descendents of Adam, we will all become descendents of Christ as the source of life, whether in heaven or on earth. He is the resurrection and the life. (John 11:25)

Could the "stars of the heavens" in the promise to Abraham have a further significance?
In one of Joseph's dreams he and his brothers were pictured as stars, with his father and mother as the sun and the moon. (Gen. 37:9-10) These 12, Joseph and his brothers, became the ancestors of the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus chose 12 apostles to become the foundation stones of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10-21) The woman seen in heaven in Revelation 12 is arrayed with the sun, moon and a crown of twelve stars (Rev. 12:1). During the 12 hours of the night, one is able to discern 1000-3000 stars in the sky with the naked eye. In a cycle of 12 months, we get to see the different parts of the whole starry sky, the firmament. These celestial bodies are organized by the Creator in their orderly arrangement. (Gen. 1:14-15). Without getting cabalistic about the number 12, it seems probable the 12 x 12 x 1000 are or belong to the heavenly "stars" in a special sense. They are receiving the morning star. (Rev. 2:28) Of course Jesus himself is "the bright morning star". (Rev. 22:16) The "grains of sand" would then more specifically refer to Abraham's offspring on earth. Also very interesting in this regard is this passage:

(Daniel 12:1-4) “And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. 2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence. 3 “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”


Par. 7 - What is the city Abraham was awaiting?


The Messianic kingdom is the means by which 'all nations of the earth will bless themselves'.
7 Abraham could not possibly have understood the full significance of the covenant Jehovah made with him. Nevertheless, he was "awaiting the city having real foundations", states the Bible (Heb. 11:10). That city is God's kingdom.
Is it possible to be a bit more accurate concerning this city? In fact, the apostle Paul mentions this city throughout Hebrews chapters 11-13 and specifically explains what it is:

(Hebrews 12:22) But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels

A capital city is not the same as the entire kingdom or country. I have noticed the most recent Watchtower publications like this series of WT study articles, the brochure The Bible--What Is Its Message? and the latest book Bearing Thorough Witness of God's Kingdom all use the terms "God's Kingdom", "the Messianic kingdom" and the awkward construction "God's Messianic kingdom" in a rather confusing way, leaving the impression they're all identical. And now in this study article even the City, the heavenly Jerusalem, is equated with God's kingdom (or do they rather mean the Messianic kingdom?). IMHO this is not the case, and I feel this matter needs further clarification and differentation. Like Einstein said: things should be kept as simple as possible, but not simpler than that. After all, the central theme of the good news is God's Kingdom!

The usage of biblical prophecies and metaphors is remarkably uniform. Following pattern may serve as a guide:
HOUSEHOLD ~ individual "households" or congregations; or the "household of God" as a whole, that is the wordwide congregation
CITY, often called Zion ~ the centre of God's rulership and the central arrangement of worship involving priests and a temple. It is even said God Himself is present there.
KINGDOM ~ the realm or domain that is ruled over; or the arrangement of rulership or reign in its entirety. This involves the City as capital and spiritual centre and also the households or families, all the people living under this rulership, inhabiting the physical domain of the kingdom, "the land".

I believe God's Kingdom (with capital K) will only fully been realized after the 1000 years and after the Son has subjected himself to the Father:

(1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Next, the end, when he [Christ] hands over the [then fully established] kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Only then will God's will have been established fully in heaven as well upon earth. Then God's Kingdom will have come in the most complete sense, and the relationship between God and mankind will have been restored like it was before the Fall. Before that time, the Messianic kingdom or Christ's kingdom will gradually grow, and in several stages extend and finally turn into God's Kingdom.
- Believers are no part of the world, but listen to the voice of truth of their king, Jesus Christ. (John 18:37)
- They are no longer in the realm of darkness under the ruler of the world, but transferred into the kingdom of Christ. (Col. 1:13)
- The entire kingdom of the world will become part of the Kingdom of God, under Christ as His fully authorized representative (Rev. 11:15; 12:10)
- and so forth


Par. 10 - See the thread Mythical 1914? (http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/showthread.php?p=37965#post37965) !!!


Par. 16 - How is the veil lifted?

Isaiah 25:7-8 (English Standard Version)
7 And he will swallow up on this mountain
the covering that is cast over all peoples,
the veil that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death forever;
and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces,
and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth,
for the LORD has spoken.

Isaiah 25:7-8 (New International Reader's Version)
7 On that mountain the Lord will destroy
the veil of sadness that covers all of the nations.
He will destroy the gloom that is spread over everyone.
8 He will swallow up death forever.
The Lord and King will wipe away the tears
from everyone's face.
He will remove the shame of his people
from the whole earth.
The Lord has spoken.

Also note what the context has to say about "this mountain":

(Isaiah 24:23) And the full moon has become abashed, and the glowing [sun] has become ashamed, for Jehovah of armies has become king in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem and in front of his elderly men with glory.

Answer:


2 Corinthians 3:12-18 (English Standard Version)
12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord[a] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,[b] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

(Italics mine: indicates words which have been added in this version, not literally present in the original Greek text)

Footnotes:
[a] Or this Lord
[b] Or reflecting the glory of the Lord

Remark concerning the ESV versus the NWT translation: "Lord" means in these verses clearly Christ and not Jehovah: "the Lord" (Greek: ho kurios) in v. 17; the context v. 14 "Christ"; no manuscripts with variants like "God"; the meaning of the passage, in harmony with other scriptures. I really think the NWT translator has been overzealous to replace "Lord" with "Jehovah" in several places in the NT, and this is IMHO one of those instances. Don't panic, I'm no trinitarian, not at all. "The Lord is the Spirit" is rendered as "The Lord means the Spirit" by another version: if one turns to the Lord, to Christ, this means he must accept the Spirit as sent by or dispensed by Christ, for Christ is active and manifested among believers on earth by means of God's spirit; he's not personally identical to the Spirit in an existential way.

"O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and past tracing out his ways are!" (Rom. 11:33)

I'm wishing you all much love, faith and peace as gifts from God!

[Utuna]

Dear The Way,

Thanks a lot for your great post and for the time and care you took to write it.

I have one question:

Do you think that the Seed recorded in Gn3:15 is the same as Abraham's seed?

1) If yes, how will the "second generation" of the seed be able to bruise Satan in the head as Jesus and the 144 000 anointed ones will soon begin to do in real life? What/who is the seed that will thwart off Satan's agenda in the end?

2) If no, does it mean that both seeds are distinct but related anyway? one spiritual seed coming from a natural and bigger one and that latter being redeemed and blessed in return by the spiritual one (Gn18:18)?

In other words, the Seed of Gn3:15 (Jesus + 144 000) would come from Abraham's seed (men alive in God's eyes through faith) and would redeem and bless the latter in return through the arrangement provided by itself once full grown, that is, through Christ's Kingdom.

It then means that the firstborns are not all the Christians, those who have faith in Jesus, as Christendom teaches. As Jacob dealt with Esau, salvation will come through the spiritual firstborns (Rom2:29), not the natural ones, even if the latter ones are still Abraham's seed. I tend to agree with Futureman in that all believers are circumcised in the heart even if they aren't all Jews. Esau was circumcised too, but wasn't a member of Israel. The same reasoning is valid in spiritual ways too.

Please, feel free to correct me is you think I'm wrong.

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"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Jinnvisible]

Abraham is called "the father of all those having faith". (Rom. 4:11)

I could have just said that.

I haven`t read the whole post yet though it looks very interesting (or even Utuna`s also interesting). Its like I'm a hoarding creature who wants to save it for when I really need a flavoursome spiritual snack. Like a spiritual squirell hoarding a spiritual nut.

or just like i'm a nut.