Protection Against All Abuse In Organization

[Excaliber]

I read the heart breaking stories on the silent lamb website and I realized I was not alone. What I suffered at bethel was not child abuse...however whatever abuse was suffered the outcome is far to often the same, the organizations priority is to protect its image and not its sheep.

Unfortunately many people that have told there stories on silent lambs have left the organization because of its failure to protect them....or in many cases to do anything for them. I am new here so I could be repeating something someone else has thought of. But I think something must be done about this.We know worldly organizations would not hide pedophiles nor would it fail to act to protect its members. WHY ? because worldly organizations know that if they don't keep these things under control, then government officials and or union Representatives would step in and Handel the situation for them.

Of course the difference in our organization is that we have NO outside supervision, and we have NO internal structure as a plan "b" when the elders fail to act. So that leaves victims with no police...and nowhere to turn when the elders fail to protect them...and many leave the truth,or are "DF'ed" when they need help. In my situation I have experienced this first hand, what happened to me was not of a sexual nature....(I will post my story if anyone is interested....however I don't know where to post it.)

So this is my question. Can we form a union which is designed to protect us from ourselves basically.This would provide a place for people who's problems are not handled by the elders in the congregation.The union could represent the individual brother or sister and send there case to the governing body, and if the governing body dose nothing...then the union will present that case to outside organizations that are trained to deal with these things. My guess is that the elders will be a lot more diligent in helping people unless they want the authorities to get involved. Another benefit of the union is to protect the individual from being "DF'ed" just for seeking help. I my self know how isolated and alone you feel when you are in a room with a group of elders threatening you and telling you to keep your mouth shut. If I go and tell people what happened....some how that makes me an apostate and I get "DF'ed" for thinking independently( How is that justice) Basically the organization would not "DF" the whole union just for trying to protect people. So "DF'ed" would no longer be an effective weapon to keep people quiet. I also have found out that the catholics even have a union for there bishops.

And finally even if for fear of EVERYONE being "DF'ed" we did not form a union. Then I think it is necessary to go outside the organization completely and look for help. For many years organizations have been established to protect people from the very things that are happening in our organization. I think we should begin going to one of these, even though that would probably get out to the papers. I think we should sacrifice the organizations PERFECT PARADISE like image, rather then sacrificing our brothers and sisters to carry on the false beliefs that bad people don't exist inside our organization.

I think a union would be great, it would protect us not only against sexual abuse, but against MANY ABUSES. And also it would make it impossible for the organization to hide its problems, so it would be forced to deal with them in a scriptural way. Also know one would be alone and afraid of being labeled an apostate or just "DF'ed" so that the whole situation could be swept under the rug.

Unfortunately the organization is not a paradise, we need the kingdom. And until the kingdom takes over, we need to be able to protect our selves from EVERYONE.....regardless of them being an Elder , Ministerial servant, pioneer, Bethelite, or any other title.

What do you think? I know its possible, have people already tried to establish such a union? If so I would like to join. If not how can we get it done? I DONT MEAN A UNION ONLY FOR THE U.S. BRANCH....BUT FOR OUR GLOBAL BROTHERHOOD.

[Kenneth]

<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">"You dislike the emancipation proclamation; and, perhaps, would have it retracted. You say it is unconstitutional -- I think differently."</span>

[Seeker of Truth]

This topic has been heavily discussed, and it is good to see that there are people that want to do something about this.

I think the Union is similar to what silent lambs have done. They offer support, they are dedicated to exposing this to the world.

I belive that at this point it is going to take heavenly direction to fix this.

thanks for the post

[Excaliber]

So you dont think there is anything we can do.
Silent lambs is a nice website that lets people talk about there stories....even though if they reveal there names they could have problems from the organization.

But what about those that are being abused now.
I think they basicly need help from within the organization, because going to the police can cause problems for them.

Even if it was a phone number that they could call, and have someone who was a JW and that understood the organization give them advise on what to do and tell them the locations of shelters that would be a start.

If we can do nothing....then I have a relative who just graduated from law school. I will ask them what legal action can be taken. I might fail but I would like to try something just to make myself feel better.

[Kenneth]

Silent lambs are probably about the best option for the abused as they are well established and already have an existing network in place. The difficulty is JWs won’t recognise there is a problem and those who know of it develop an inverted gaze.


I think they basically need help from within the organization,[/b]

Who is going to do the helping? The society has the elders in their pocket and few are willing to fly solo. Those who have been abused need justice and closure, there is no framework in place for this, and elders would not dare go beyond the society’s guideline on the matter. There are some good caring elders who would spend hours listening along with sleepless nights to abused victims, theses ones after all are shepherds to flock, and must take care of orphans’ and widows in their time of need. But no matter how much shepherding they do they are still under the society’s direction, especially the rule of two witnesses that fails the abused victim in terms of closure, as the predator is allowed to carry on in his duties owing to the lack of evidence.

If a help line was to be set up it would be outside of the society’s guideline and those manning the line if they were JWs could find themselves in deepwater’s. Even though I don’t frequent the site, it seem that Silent Lambs is about the best option as they are in a position to give the right counsel and understand the victims in relation to the society better than anyone else.

Kenneth
"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation&#39;s wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan..."

[Molly]

Hi Excaliber-

Welcome to this site.

I feel for you because I know that you are upset about what you have learned at Silentlambs. About 6 months ago I started reading about the same information and it about knocked my socks off. For about two months I walked about in a daze. I think mourning is a word that fits how I felt. The immensity of the problems with the WTS was something that I had never contemplated. I was a good little JW - I wouldn&#39;t visit those apostate internet sites. It happened totally innocently, I read one of Watchman&#39;s essays. But most witnesses will carefully avoid the sites that would actually bring them help.

The combination of the secrecy, the threats if any information is revealed to authorities, and the resulting disfellowshipping when an individual actually does protect themselves, their children, and others pretty effectively keeps everything hidden from the ordinary withness. Probably only a small percentage of the congregations have any idea depth of the problems. How do you encourage people to start a union to protect themselves when they aren&#39;t even aware there is a problem? There are too many scriptures that could easily be pulled out and bandied around to eliminate even the concept of a union from the minds of most witnesses. Now I can see how scriptures are used by the WTS to keep people in line. The scriptures themselves aren&#39;t wrong, just the application.

Nice idea, but I don&#39;t think you could get most witnesses to abandon the notion that they live in a "spiritual paradise." It would be more like: "Problem? What problem?"

Molly

[Kenneth]

There&#39;s none so blind as those who cannot see...

[Alex]

Hello Excaliber, Welcome to the DB!

I appreciate your comments and proposal and I can understand your frustration with such a disturbing situation.

I too endorse what those previous to me have said.

I have served in various capacities in the org, and I am sorry to say it really goes beyond most brothers, including elders, in their comprehension that there would be anything wrong in the brotherhood for the need to set up any union. There is no admittance by the majority that child abuse has been a problem in the brotherhood, but rather is likened to an irritating splinter in one&#39;s finger, small but not life threatening and easily removed (i.e. the few individuals engaged in child abuse can get disfellowshipped and the problem then goes away!)

I have found if I bring this problem into the open, or even mention about the Silentlambs website, this immediately arouses suspicion, and it becomes the common consensus that it is just &#39;apostates making it bad for the organization.&#39;

The Watchtower Society does it utmost to ensure it portrays to the public a squeaky clean image, but personally I have no issue with the reputation of the Society being tarnished as a result of a lack of action and justice for the victims of child abuse. Yes, Jehovah&#39;s name is at stake here, but so too is Jehovah&#39;s name dragged through the mud when the Watchtower Society tries to cover up wrongdoing for the sake of its corporate image and ignores the victims of a so-called &#39;spiritual paradise&#39;.

All will be exposed to the shock of our &#39;blind&#39; brotherhood when Jesus cleanses his household.

Brotherly affection to you, Alex.

[Kenneth]

Just out of interest why was Bill Bowen disfellowshipped, what exactly were the scriptural grounds?


kenneth
---------------------------------
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."
</span>

[Excaliber]

Molly, you brought out some GREAT points.
Many JW&#39;s are still blinded, and dont know of any problems. But I also was one of them...but yet here I am...and here you all are.

This website is an example. The organization is comeing down hard on the internet, and just for haveing a site like this you could be in trouble....yet we are all here. And this site has encouraged many. The fact that the organization has serious problems can NO LONGER BE KEPT SECRET. The records of child abuse are sky high...and these documents canot be denied.

One person canot do very much, but you guys came together on this website and have done great.
I truly beleive we can do the same and unite against these problems we have.
ALL WE NEED IS NUMBERS !! AND WE NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT OUR LEGAL RIGHTS ARE!! Just like a company canot fire all its employees just because the join a union.....I think legely the watchtower canot DF all its members that join together in union.

I can see it in the paper now " Watchtower try&#39;s to disfelowship 500 members for trying to help sexual abuse victims"....honestly if they did that, they would do more damage to there own image then anyone could. They would then be publicly and openly protecting pediphiles, and you better beleive the government would step in then.

Brothers all we need is numbers...that is all. Then we would be open for buisness. People could contact us via the internet to hide there identity.
And when we save one JW...they will join us and be more zealous about helping others then we are. WE CAN DO IT !!!

IT wont be hard to get people interested in helping the sexualy abused victims, all they need to do is see the information we saw.

Remember a journey of a thousand miles starts with just one step. All we need is a group to deside to do it. Then the rest " WITH JEHOVAHS HELP" will fall in place. Remember Jehovah is not afraid of the watchtower organization, with him on our side we are in the majority.

As Jehovahs witnesses we are known for telling everyone about the FUTURE PARADISE...but not doing much about what is happening TODAY. It is a fact that we are viewd that way, as other organizations have at least put up homless shelters and tried to at least help the situation.
I think we need to break out of the mind set that we had before.

Mabey I sound nieve, but C.T.Russel probably sounded just as nieve also....not that I am compareing us to him. but you know what I mean.

Brothers we know the truth ! it feels like its our duty as witnesses to PROCLAIM IT. Think about the picture in the draw close book...the picture of the loveing shepherd carrying the lamb in his arms. I used to stare at that picture when I was going through my problems with the watchtower...and wounder where are these elders.....where is Jehovah....why dosent anyone care.

I think we can be the answere to many such prayers "IF" we come together.
It may seem difficult now, but in just one year think of the progress we will make. I think Jehovah has reveald these problems to us for a reason.
All we need is the here I am send me..attitude.

Jehovah and Jesus LOVE US...the picture of the sheapherd in the draw close book accuratly represents the love of our Great shepherd.
But its the undersheapherds that dont always care for us.
You guys have already mailed letters to congregations and everything... "YOU ALREADY ARE A UNION".

[Kenneth]

Hi Excaliber

I admire you zeal on the matter but we have to be realistic. There are groups set up such as the &#39;JWs reform group&#39;, but that&#39;s not what this is about. The structure of the Watchtower is set up so that it&#39;s impossible to have dissention in the ranks. You have a pyramid system in place of the GB, ZO. DO, CO, Elders, MSs down to the publishes, then Bethel and its branches, and breaking through it is impossible, not however for Jehovah.

I can assure you if I knew of someone in the congregation who is a paedophile I would be the first one on the crusade and I know a few others who would join me. However, saying that JWs have a kind of mentality that the elder are in Christ right hand and they are going to make it all better, in fact they place their full trust in them.

We may argue with others that the society&#39;s policies are wrong and we need to do something about them, you may find a listening ear but someone will go and speak to the elders and it won&#39;t be long before they are on you case. You will be told to let it go, if you don&#39;t you may be viewed as a trouble maker and find yourself before a judicial committee.

We have to remember the scripture must be fulfilled in the Watchtower and us trying to change things may prove futile, that not to say we should give up on the &#39;Orphans and Widows&#39; as we are under obligation to look after them. If you know of a personal case then do all you can to help the person.

The Watchtower are not going to change there policies, as for a union well I will just say &#39;Korah&#39;. The Watchtower has been put on notice and will incur Jehovah&#39;s wrath in the near future, they are aware of their guilt. We have to remember that for the scripture to be fulfilled they must come all there way to fruition.

So keep you chin up it won&#39;t be long before justice is served.

Kenneth

[Jeshurun]

Hello Excaliber

On a lighter note, I thought I might bring up a funny dialogue that came up with brother Nambo a couple of weeks ago.

After reading several of these horror stories about disfellowshipping, I lamented that it seemed like they were just going to keep disfellowshipping everybody until there were only two elders left, and then they could sit together in the "back room" and look at each other and wonder what the heck happened.

Nambo responded by saying, "But only one will endure til the end!.....oh. allright, &#39;at&#39; the end". (a reference to a discussion about exactly what Paul meant when he said &#39;til the end&#39;)

My response was "Man of lawlessness revealed!"

Lou

[Kenneth]

After reading several of these horror stories about disfellowshipping, I lamented that it seemed like they were just going to keep disfellowshipping everybody until there were only two elders left, and then they could sit together in the "back room" and look at each other and wonder what the heck happened.[/b]

Maybe they could disfellowship each other and be done with it.

Kenneth

[Excaliber]

Hi kenneth,
I thought about kora also....but it could be a little out of context because we are not talking about joining a priest hood or anything even like that.
At least I am not.

I am simpply talking about helping abuse victims.

I remember thinking about something like this when I first went to bethel...and signed my life away. Basicly signing a vow of poverty,and if I die they can do what they want with my body...and that for no reason would I sue them..etc..etc.. I was like wow good thing this is a paradise...otherwise I could be in trouble. Unfortunatly I learned the hard way.

Anyway my idea was just to handel these sensetive isues with in the organization.

It would actualy be worse if we go outside of the organization....but it may be nessasary.

I dont know if there needs to be dissention in the ranks to help abuse victims. There is nothing unscriptural about this.
I will find out what legal rights we have...and what protection the government provides against religious coruption.

If nessasary this will have to be brought to the attention of the athorities...esspesialy if it continues.
We would not be a kora...the watchtower is not a moses. There are no prophets in our org. We just have imperfect men trying to acomplish the preaching work, and establish congregations and print liturature...THATS ALL. The watchtower is not Jehovah..its not Jesus...it dose not have prophets. The anointed have no more Holy Spirit then those with the earthly hope. The watchtower dose not superseed the bible...its not even equal to the bible. So Why are we afraid to help those abused victims, The watchtower is not the Pope they cant just excomunicate people because they want to. There has to be scriptural reasons.

I am sorry for going on and on about this...but outside of just being organized to accomplish our ministry...what other pourpose dose the organization serve? What power dose it have over a christian? Our leader is Jesus.
I think the organization needs to focus on its teachings, and mabey something else QUALIFIED needs to help abuse victims.

Remember stephen was chossen to help in the distibution of food, the apostles did not "DF" all the complainers...they did not ignore them, but they apointed a group to handel the situation so they could focus on the minestry. What would the apostles do today? Would they "DF" everyone for trying to help...would they try to cover up the fact that there is a problem? (like the watchtower) Or would they assign people to handle the situation?

again sorry for going on and on about this. Mabey I should not pursue a union....but there must be another way.

[Kenneth]

Hi Excalibur

I appreciate what you&#39;re saying but they will draw a parallel to Korah, they always do, it&#39;s the way they operate, in context or out of context. I feel your passion in the way you write and helping abused victims is a noble cause. If they had the entire world against them (which they believe they do) they will believe like so many other faiths God is on their side and will fight to the end. (Even though I am convinced this is the correct channel being use by Jehovah, things as they say have gone &#39;Belly-up&#39;.) If you feel the need to form some action group then go for it, but you need to understand the way Bethel, its politics and policies work. You say you were at Bethel, not sure what you did there, but to understand their thinking on the matter you would need to reach elder status and serve in a few department and on committees. If you have done this then all the best, do what you can but make sure your eyes are wide open so you don&#39;t get your fingers burned and find yourself disfellowship.

All the Best

Kenneth

[Excaliber]

I feel this way...when an elder comes to me with a bible in his hand, my ears are wide open....but without that bible my ears are wide shut.
This is not a situation where the organization says jump and we say how high.
If the organization says jump...we say what scripture did you get that from.
I also think Jehovah is acomplishing his will through the watchtower....but where dose it say in the bible " do absolutly nothing but go door to door until armagedon"....and where dose the bible say the watchtower is the head of the congregation.

When Jesus dose turn his attention to our organization...we all know heads are going to roll. Because bethel has set itself up as the model for all JW&#39;s...when that model is Jesus Christ and AND KNOWONE ELSE.

I know what you are saying, When I was at bethel I did not feel comfortable serving as an elder...It is a story I have not yet shared...I have not told anyone about my bethel experience because I wanted to let people here get to know me first.
But yes I was there and I know how the scriptures can be twisted to mean anything they want...and I know the us against the world mentality.
And trust me I know how easily they can turn your fellow brothers and sisters against you, if you stand up to this big bully.

I want to be a diciple of Christ....not of bethel.
Bethel will not make a diciple out of me. And it is so easy to be corupted at bethel. Most people come in there just like I did...saying yes sir and yes mam to everyone....and thinking that God is somehow more present there. Many grab a girl and get outa there. Since the sisters also think there is something special about people from bethel. Its just a mess.

[Excaliber]

I have a question.
Do you think our brothers and sisters that sufferd sexual abuse and beatings would have left the organization if they had SOMEONE inside the organization to turn to, so that it did not feel to them that the organization failed them?
Would they still be with us today?

[Kenneth]

So many are disillusioned by the Watchtower not just over their child abuse policies, but the 1914 teaching and the NGO affair, its left some exasperated to the point of leaving. Some have had difficulties with elders to a point of being stumbled and have been missing for years. The fact of the matter is victims need support not just form the elders but the society as a whole. They are all to often not believed, had they been listened too things may well have been somewhat different for them today. It does frustrate me when brothers say wait on Jehovah as if he expects us to sit back and do nothing.

My complaint with the Watchtower is else where in the lies we have been told as I watch so many of my dear brothers and sisters soak it all up. In the end of course so many of them are going to get hurt by the lie, I worry greatly over them. And what really aggravates me is that those at Bethel know it and like the child abuse policies do nothing. I just don&#39;t understand where they are coming from. But then I should understand as I preach it here enough, the scriptures must be fulfilled.

"But the lawless one&#39;s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents ¹⁰ and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. ¹¹ So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, ¹² in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

Kenneth</span></span> </span>

[Excaliber]

Kenneth,
If you try to tell people anything about wrong teaching...you will be labeled an apostate and DF&#39;d faster then we would just for helping abuse victims.
We are a loooong way from geting the Watchtower or anyone for that matter to second guess teaching.

The only way you could do that is little by little.

The problem is that ANYTHING we do outside of reading the watchtower and going to meetings and service can get you the apostate label,,,,then knowone will listen to you.

I wounder if we could get a spot on 60 minuets...or CNN...
I mean realy, we are going to need some help here. The watchtower cant DF 60 minuets or cnn...or the news paper.

We would just need them to make the camra fuzzy and make our voice un recognizable...so we could talk about the abuse. Honestly the only thing I forsee the watchtower doing about the abuse is....writeing an article about it in the watchtower.

I think we need help....OUTSIDE help. Because if any body on the inside tries to stop so many from leaving out the back door of the organization...they will just get DF&#39;d.
Sometimes elders do to much talk giving and to little sheapherding. Anytime I hear about real problems they never get handeled, the elders are to buisy getting ready to talk about something that we already read. Not that talks are not good for us. But I think a good sheapherd is better then a good watchtower conducter.
Basicly it seems like the watchtower has tied the elders hands behind there backs.....they cant do anything BUT GIVE TALKS. I mean realy what can elders do about child abuse?? Nothing but tell you that you better go to the police.

[Kenneth]

I don&#39;t want to sound discouraging, but the Watchtower are a law to themselves. When the Panorama programme went out many in the congregations were shocked at what they were seeing. However, as the weeks and months past and the dust settled individuals begun to reflect and analyse the claim. Many came to the conclusion it was the work of apostates and those involved in the programme were disgruntled disfellowshipped individuals. There are person I know of who tell me the society have got it &#39;spot on&#39; with this issue and are way ahead of other religions. Panorama has lost all credibility with JWs and many view its content now as mere lies. Interestingly though some did watch a resent Panorama on child abuse in the Catholic Church, maybe they have short memories. The problem as far as JWs are concerned the society are made of Teflon and nothing can stick, convincing them otherwise is impossible no matter how much we protest the walls of Bethel and the Kingdom Halls are impenetrable. So what&#39;s the answer, personally I don&#39;t have one. My take on it is to leave it to Silent lambs or at lest get some advise from them on how to proceeded. My issues are with the spiritual internal combustions of the congregation, even though I keep a very low profile and steer clear of controversy the time will come when the whole lot will collapse and the brothers are going to need all the aid and strength they can muster to survive it. I wish you well and Gods speed in your endeavour, it&#39;s a noble course.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/2114320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm

Kenneth

[Excaliber]

Well mabey you are right.
The watchtower will take care of itself, it will probably also run over anyone that stands in font of it.....and leave behind any poor abused or sick sheep behind it.

Mabey we all have to look out for 1#.

Its ashame it has to be that way.
but I am not going to throw away another second worrying about it.

to bad.

[Kenneth]

Hi Excalibar

I do hope I haven&#39;t been a discouragement to you, but I have just tried to look at the realities of it. For the little people fighting the big multinational it&#39;s hard, as for the little people fighting the Watchtower it&#39;s almost impossible, some though have been successful in personal court cases. The who idea of the Watchtower being a multinational and run like big business is a worrying factor as you become a cog in a very big wheel. It has a big legal team and million if dollars at its disposal to fight the little people so it can maintain its squeaky clean image. I wouldn&#39;t want to think that I have stopped you in any way as I believe you have a passion and your cause is good.

For me its all about what&#39;s happening at the grassroots level, many of the brother/sisters are in emotional turmoil and in need of our support, I&#39;m sure you can be of great value to them, especially orphans and widows. By keeping things to a grassroots level you are able to give some assistance to the needy. However, those who are abuse are not likely to say so and often it&#39;s impossible to tell. The psychological problems individual&#39;s faces in the congregation in terms of depression are immense and it&#39;s up to us to have a keen eye and offer assistance where needed, this can manifest itself in what we say though answering, speaking personally to them or offering some practical assistance.

"we exhort YOU, brothers, admonish the disorderly, speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all. ¹⁵ See that no one renders injury for injury to anyone else, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others."


kenneth</span></span> </span>

[Excaliber]

Kenneth,
I am fine.
I just dont have the resorces to campaign against abuse alone. So I will have to wait and see what oportunity comes in the future.

[NEW HEART]

[quote]
Hello Excaliber

On a lighter note, I thought I might bring up a funny dialogue that came up with brother Nambo a couple of weeks ago.

After reading several of these horror stories about disfellowshipping, I lamented that it seemed like they were just going to keep disfellowshipping everybody until there were only two elders left, and then they could sit together in the "back room" and look at each other and wonder what the heck happened.

Nambo responded by saying, "But only one will endure til the end!.....oh. allright, &#39;at&#39; the end". (a reference to a discussion about exactly what Paul meant when he said &#39;til the end&#39;)


Matthew 10:21-22
Further, brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. 22. And you will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name, but he the has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

This scripture reminds me of Jesus warning us that we will be hated by our own people, thinking they were doing the right thing by putting us to death in the sense that they think we are spiritually dead in God&#39;s eyes, but Jesus also gave us the hope of being saved because (if we endure it) with the ability to suffer for doing a good thing than we will be rewarded with life. If we are abused and called names(apostates) which is verbal abuse for doing what is fine, than this is a good thing, since Jesus suffered the same abuse.


A few verses down ...Jesus reminded us, that if they called him the householder Be-el&#39;-ze-bub, how much more will they call those of his household so?(his true church, his sheep who can only hear his voice, and have fled hired men)

We must not fear men, for there is nothing covered over that will not be uncovered, and secret that will not become known. What I tell you in darkness, say in the light, and what you hear whispered , shout from the housetops. And do not become fearful of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul, but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul & body in Gehenna.

It is hard to endure being shunned for doing the right thing in exposing wrongdoing, but we must do what Jesus said, and make all the covered over wrongdoing known, and be more in fear of God and not a hiarchy of men&#39;s thoughts and mental minipulation. It feels awkward to see through and shimmer in the light of unveiled faces when everyone else around you can see only with a veiled face. To have to fear to let your light shine can be a hard thing, especially because you are viewed by those still veiled as a threat and with suspitious eyes.


Sister,
New Heart

[panda]

So you dont think there is anything we can do.
Silent lambs is a nice website that lets people talk about there stories....even though if they reveal there names they could have problems from the organization.

But what about those that are being abused now.
I think they basicly need help from within the organization, because going to the police can cause problems for them.

Even if it was a phone number that they could call, and have someone who was a JW and that understood the organization give them advise on what to do and tell them the locations of shelters that would be a start.

If we can do nothing....then I have a relative who just graduated from law school. I will ask them what legal action can be taken. I might fail but I would like to try something just to make myself feel better.[/b]I personally know what it is like to be abused by someone of trust, this was not in the org but within my family when I was nine....the elders are not councillors they can only give help from the bible and reference to articles in mags, abused victims need to consult specialists in this matter, people that deal with no predujice or don&#39;t follow laws, elders main concern is the guidelines set by the GB, which as we all know here are only men, weather they say they are Gods chanel or not they do admit having no more holy spirit than us, they are not involved with people on day to day basis, living in seclusion, they are really not in any position to give any specialist advice on child sexual abuse. The best thing for a victim to do is to seek help from a phycologist, before they try to supress the pain with other destructive habits. If the abuse was within the org, they would have virtually no trust in it. The truth should firsly be about people and love and protection of these people. Laws and rules not governed by compassion and love will never protect anyone, they are a crime and hypocricy of Christianity and have nothing to do with worshiping Jehovah with spirit and truth (Jhn 4:24) They should be there to protect the sheep not the org.

[inthebrig]

Maybe they can fool their brs, but they cant fool jehovah, and there is a big fool on this site that like s to cover over such abuse and look at the world through rose tinted glasses-slaveforjah- he calls himself.
But, jehovah will come and bind up the broken hearted, he will do as he has promised to do, and even those that are preying on the most vunerable in the congregation who are praying to jehovah, they wil not be found in his kingdom (ezekiel 33, ezekiel 9:6 psalms 1:5 1 peter 4:17), and even those that go as far as to lie so as to cover up their deeds, they will not be found either, for the warrant for their deaths have entered into their housegolds and wont leave, that is the word of jehovah ( zecariah 5:1-11 ) :buja_w_oblokach:

[inthebrig]

Great posting new heart. Enuff said
inthebrig

[James]

Maybe they can fool their brs, but they cant fool jehovah, and there is a big fool on this site that like s to cover over such abuse and look at the world through rose tinted glasses-slaveforjah- he calls himself.[/b]

tsk, tsk.

Make that two fools.

agape,
James

[watchman]

Sorry Inthebrig, but I am not going to tolerate your personal attacks on board members and your stirring up contentions through private messages. I am temporarily suspending your account.

Watchman

[Peter]

Maybe they can fool their brs, but they cant fool jehovah, and there is a big fool on this site that like s to cover over such abuse and look at the world through rose tinted glasses-slaveforjah- he calls himself.[/b]

There are times when it’s a rant too far. :ranting2:

Count me in as a fool :187: