Practical Difficulties

[Eli's Foe]

Hi Everyone,

We wanted to stop by and say hello to everyone on the e.watchman site.

We know this maybe an old topic for alot of long standing members on this site, but having just found this site and the answer to our prayers, we are left with many unanswered questions.

Having been Witnessess for 20 and 35 years respectively, my husband and I have found ourselves in the last 2 years in particular, thoroughly disillusioned with situations that have arisen in our congregation, because of this we have not now attended a meeting for the last 4 weeks. I guess we must admit to our faith being at a low ebb, but when you feel that you are being subjected to situations that are anything but loving you find yourselves asking the question "If this is the truth where is Jehovah?"

Having finally found the answers to this question, and many more we are left with a new one, where do we go from here?

Obviously not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together
(Heb Ch 10:25) is important and we must address the issue of meeting attendance in the near future, however challenging this might be to our pride.

I guess with this comes along other questions and that is where we would appreciate a little help from all who have obviously been down this path.

1. When attending meetings such as the Revelation book study starting this week, do we sit and say nothing ? or only answer up only on the questions where the answer in non contentious?

2. The same applies to the ministry, as most of the literature that we place is based on the 1914 doctrine ( especially when conducting bible studies) do we continue to go out and avoid speaking about his issue?

3. What obligation is placed upon us now as regards to telling others what we have learned and more specifically in what way do we disseminate this information to others without finding ourselves cut-off from the congregation?

Being new to this site I hope that we have not said anything that we should not have said, and hope to receive replies that will guide us in making wise decisions in the future.

Christian Love from the U.K

Eli's Foe

[eyes&ears]

Hi Eli's Foe,


I will send you a PM Ok.

Eyes & Ears

[Excaliber]

Hi Eli's Foe,

I have the EXACT same problem. I am happy you asked those questions, because I need the answer to.
I am also new and I am always worried about posting something wrong and getting kicked of. I have learned things about the ORG. while serving at bethel...and I wanted to know what to tell people in the ministry and mostly what to tell all the people that want to know things about bethel.

So you asked an exelent question. Where DO we go from here?

[Eli's Foe]

Hi Eli's Foe,


I will send you a PM Ok.

Eyes & Ears[/b]


Hi Eyes and Ears,

Thankyou for your reply, I hope I am replying to your post in the right way!

Not sure what a PM is

Eli's Foe

[jammin4]

Dear Eli's Foe, I don't know if my answer will help you. I trust in Jehovah and don't lean on my own understanding. If/when a situation presents itself, I know that Jehovah will provide the right response/words through his holy spirit. I believe I just need to leave my ears open so that I hear them.

My love to you. Please do not become overly concerned about this. Jehovah is there for you.

[Excaliber]

Hi Eli's Foe,

A PM is a, Private Message.

Its like a little e-mail box you have here.
Just look on the left of the screen under personal menu and you will se your (PM) or private message box.

[Eli's Foe]

Thanks Excaliber, it all seems so comlicated, but I am sure it will get easier with time

[Kenneth]

Hi Eli's Foe
The society have placed many of us in an impossible situation in relation to field ministry, eldership, answering and so forth. So what do we do?

One important factor to remember is that the Watchtower is Jehovah's channel, however it's just not the way he wanted it to be. Leaving is pointless' as it leads to isolation and cyberspace is no substitute for human company. Yes we have to sit through all the talks that go on about 1914 and how wonderful everything is and how Jehovah's is blessing us all when you know different. A brother last night was going on about the growth in the organisation, but all I could think of was how many have gone out through the back door, and how much of the growth was down to internal candidates from the families of JWs.

<span style="font-family:Verdana">As for the ministry they best way to deal with it is tell the truth, it can be done within the Watchtowers framework as much of what they teach is correct, so stick to that. Bible studies are a different matter (at least for me) as you are expected to teach the 1914 doctrine. Pass the study over there&#39;s always someone who would be delighted to take it on. Serving as an elder means towing the party line, again I haven&#39;t found the answer to this one as we are encourage to reach out in the book of Timothy, this is a real poser.

The key is in understanding the big picture. The Watchtower and JWs represent anti-typical Israel this is something so many don&#39;t seem to understand. When the Watchtower do wrong such as becoming an NGOs they leave because they are stumbled, if they understood the big picture they would get the point of it. In the time of the end Jesus comes to inspect the congregation, be there in good standing with Jehovah and his son, as many will be found wanting, Christ will vomit them out of his mouth. I can only encourage you to continue to keep on enduring until the end and be an encouragement to the brothers now and when the time is right.

Kenneth</span></span> </span>

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Dear Eli&#39;s Foe, I don&#39;t know if my answer will help you. I trust in Jehovah and don&#39;t lean on my own understanding. If/when a situation presents itself, I know that Jehovah will provide the right response/words through his holy spirit. I believe I just need to leave my ears open so that I hear them.

My love to you. Please do not become overly concerned about this. Jehovah is there for you.[/b]


Thanks Jammin4,

I guess it could be compared to when we heard the truth for the first time and we wanted everyone to know. It would have actually been better if we had been locked away for a while until we had calmed down a little and had a better all round knowledge to be able to answer all questions.

Now we just want to tell everyone and yet really we are still learning ourselves

We will have to exercise patience and trust in Jehovah

[Excaliber]

I dont preach...comment....or give a talk on something I dont agree with.
Because I dont have freedom of speach to comment on 1914 if I dont agree.

The same is true in the ministry, I preach "this good news of the kingdom" the same good news that Jesus preached..if someone wants me to preach something different...well thats there problem.

If I am assigned a talk I dont agree with, there is always someone willing to trade with me...as long as I dont wait until the last second to arange a trade.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Kenneth,

Thankyou for taking the time to reply.

We guess we was asking the question when we already knew the answers.

It is good to hear confirmation from somebody else, and I suppose we are just going to have to swallow our pride and walk back in there. As you say seeing the big picture will make that easier to do.

We would never have believed that our understanding of Jehovahs purpose could be modified in such a way in just 10 days.

Does anyone feel lie us, amazed that they personally have been given a chance by Jehovah to see and understand all of this new light

[eyes&ears]

I&#39;m sorry EF a PM is a private message. Just like an e-mail. I just finished sending it to you. Let me know if you received it OKEY DOKEY.

ALll this new fangled technology it is something else isn&#39;t it? :D

[eyes&ears]

HI Ex,

In my opinion, Jammin and Kenneth are both absolutely correct. YOU HOLD ON TIGHT AS YOU CAN TO JEHOVAH AND HIS SON.

Pray incessantly, get as close to those who are strong as you can, and be careful about sharing any of the information that you have discovered.

No matter what happpens stay in Jehovah&#39;s word and organization that I believe he is still using and sit tight. Associate as much as possible with those of like faith and do not leave. When Jehovah is ready he will in my opinion let us know if we are to do anything.

It has taken me some time and I have come full circle, but I believe this with every ounce of faith that I have.

For me this is a year where I BEGIN TO SERIOUSLY ONLY ALLOW JEHOVAH TO DIRECT MY STEPS AND I REFUSE TO BE INFLUENCED BY ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE, HOWEVER I WILL CONSIDER THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS AND THAT IS ABOUT IT. WE MUST MAKE JEHOVAH&#39;S WORD OUR OWN AND WE MUST DEVELOP A VERY SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND LEAVE ALL OTHER IRRELEVANT (SPELLING) STUFF ALONE. Learn to know who is speaking to you, is it Jehovah or someone else. Jehovah will never confuse or mislead us.

Much love to you and your family

E & E
I hope this helps a little.

I cannot say enough STAY IN JEHOVAH&#39;S WORD, MAKE SURE OF WHAT JEHOVAH IS SAYING TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND TO US AS HIS PEOPLE. OKEY DOKEY

E & E

1THESSALONIANS 5:21

[jammin4]

E&E!!! You are so RIGHT ON!! I really learned the lesson of "Jehovah and ONLY Jehovah" counts for me by being disfellowshipped and finding myself so utterly alone...except Jehovah was still there and He still loved me and He wanted me to "hang tough." The lesson was very well worth the price!! I&#39;ll never leave Him.

[Nambo]

Elis Foe!
Hi and welcome!

What a fortunate position you are in!, you have only been away for 4 weeks, hardly even a Spiritual hiccup it will seem to others who would have noticed your absence and be glad to see you back, seemingly fully recovered, and now armed with the knowledge that the FDS are not infallible and are certainly not Jehovah himself, so you can make a destinction between the true Love of God from the lack of Love that seems to be displayed in so many congregations.

In fact, you can do even more valuable ministry for Jehovah by demonstrating Gods Love in the way you know it should be really, rather than the way its being done at the moment.

Just enjoy what you can at the meetings such as singing songs, (I do so miss that), but knowing you are singing them voluntarily out of Love for Jehovah rather than fear of Man and following the footsteps of the FDS which sometimes dont quite seem to follow the steps of Jesus.

Dont go putting your foot in it by revealing the things you are unhappy about but be sure there are many others who are naturally inclined to Love God but are being out off by the current harshness, maybe if you pray to Jehovah he will reveal such ones to you who you can then discreetly help by getting them to see they can still be there, but to worship God and not man whom we seem encouraged to do at the moment.

And yes!, you can still serve Jehovah in the Ministry, getting People to belive in God and in a coming Kingdom, and the bits you dont agree with, leave out.

Take it from me, its a miserable existance being a lost sheep.

[Jeshurun]

Hi guys

Dear Eli&#39;s Foe and Excaliber,

Welcome to you! Welcome to a wonderful place where everyone has an unobstructed view of our wonderful Creator and Father, Jehovah God.

We are all saddened and deeply stricken at the thought of the Watchtower&#39;s coming collapse, for the sake of all the innocent ones. Rest assured that Jehovah will reach his people who truly love him. The time to speak will become apparent. You will develop skills where you can intimate with your brothers and sisters and get a feel for things before you go dropping any bombs. Your love for them will let you know when you should speak, and when it will be of no benefit.

If you are there for them at that time you will be a gift for them when they need it most. You will be able to comfort them and give them answers during a time of desperation and bewilderment. We have the opportunity to be a light to the world, and Jehovah is using the internet to gather his straying and lost ones. Lately the Society has been pounding the "don&#39;t go near the internet" drum like never before. There&#39;s a good reason for this, and as we get closer to the end, world events will force multitudes more to question the interpretations, and everything else the Watchtower has done.

Exciting times are just ahead and the return of our Lord Jesus is very near. I&#39;m so glad you have found us. I got here two months ago through the most improbable series of events that I could imagine. Jehovah is surely pouring out his Holy Spirit and making his secrets known, the ones we have waited for.

Welcome dear Eli&#39;s Foe and Excaliber

Lou

[Excaliber]

Jeshurun

Thank you for that warm welcome.
I am happy Eli&#39;s Foe has only been away 4 weeks.
What happend to me at bethel scared me so bad...I thought that we didnot have the truth. I began searching for the truth, and I was sooooo close to becomeing a Catholic. The only reason I did not become a catholic is because they are not as good as we are in the minestry, so I could not contact a priest...also I found out that orthodox was catholic to so I had to pick one or the other. All that stalled me just long enuff for Seeker of truth to swoop in and save me.
I get chills when I think about it, If that priest would have been there when I called...I would be catholic right now.

Eli&#39;s Foe you found this site much sooner then I did so you are in good shape.

[Molly]

Hi to Eli&#39;s Foe-

Wasn&#39;t it wonderful to find out that there was more to learn about Jehovah.

You have obviously realized by now that you must be very cautious about revealing any of your new found understanding, even though you would most likely prefer to shout it from the rooftops. It just wouldn&#39;t do any good and there would be repercussions. All unnecessary.

On the other hand there are several that have found this site (and often quite by accident) when they were particulary depressed over some aspect of spiritual life that wasn&#39;t living up to expectations. It only leads me to believe that there are bunches of others out there that want to learn this information as well. Jehovah knows the best way to call his sheep and I feel sure that he will lead them when they are ready. Think about it - when you needed the spiritual feeding, you found this site, and now you&#39;re no longer feel famished.

I have questioned some of JW&#39;s teachings for at least a decade, so you can definitely sit pretty and answer only when your conscience allows. Bible studies, of course, would be trickier, but to give up the study to someone else is a good choice. It&#39;s not a perfect choice, but it won&#39;t always be this way. We can look forward to the time when we can proclaim our understanding to any that will listen. In the mean time we can encourage our brothers and sisters here, and be just a little more empathetic about the conditions under which our brothers and sisters at the hall are laboring, because many undoubtedly feel just the way you have felt. They just haven&#39;t figured out what to do about it yet.

I am so happy that you found some comfort at this site.

Molly

[Alex]

Welcome Eli&#39;s Foe,

Which part of the UK are you from?

I remain an active member of the congregation, and I have to say this site and DB has made me more spiritually aware for the last three years. I have used it to enhance my faith in God&#39;s promises, and the Bible&#39;s prophetic messages have really come to life.

As you may know we are now reading through Isaiah at the meetings, but to realise that such a book is directed at Jehovah&#39;s people rather than Christendom and the past events of 1919 as we have been led to believe, makes Bible study much more interesting and worthwhile.

Select the good &#39;food&#39; from the meetings, and continue to read the scriptures in their entirety and proper context. You will feel as if you are learning the &#39;truth&#39; over and over again.

Endeavour to keep associating with your congregation. You will be surprised just how many feel as you do. Even some &#39;oldtimers&#39; I know admit &#39;things are not the same anymore&#39;, not so much love, even one sister admited &#39;the way we are being taught is as if they are speaking to children!&#39;

Subtly encourage your fellow believers to use their powers of discernment and thinking ability when discussing with them a point from the meeting.

Depression and other pressures seem rampant in the congregations here in England. Our brothers now need more loving than ever. Sometimes the organization does not always provide it, but we can if we do not leave.

May Jehovah bless you, with brotherly affection, Alex.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Molly

Thankyou for such a warm welcome, it is so nice to find a group of freinds that really care about each other.

Looking forward to communicating with you all

E.F

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Alex

As we are in a small community and it would be pretty easy to identify us if I gave a precise place, I will say that we are in the South.

We are trying to build up courage to return to the meetings, but as we have not attended for 4 weeks and not one elder has taken the time to call on us, we are in no doubt how the elders feel towards us. My husband has always been too much of an independant thinker to conform to the societies dogmatic approach and at times this has attracted negative comments from the elders.

However we know now where we must go from here and the part that we have to play in the outworkings of Jehovah&#39;s purpose and we must wait on him to show us what we must do, however hard it may be to swallow our pride.

You say that you have been on the site for 3 years, is that how long the site has been up and running? Are you completely on your own or do you have someone you can share this with? Have you been able to show anyone else in the 3 years.

May Jehovah be with you
E.F

[Alex]

Hi E.F.,

Good to hear from you. I too have been accused of too much independent thinking (just ask Londoner on that point!). One elder even told me that I read too much into things when I raised a point with him which I found difficult to accept and which he could not understand or answer.

I appreciate your humility in addressing your current situation.

Over the last 3 years, it has proven difficult to share some of the reasoning found on E-W regarding prophetic interpretation with my family. I have tried, but I have been accused of &#39;going down the road of apostasy&#39;. However, that has not put me off from considering an alternative reasoning, and it appears sound to me at this point. I have been able to help a few brothers and sisters over this time to re-examine the scriptures without the Watchtower indoctrination we have become use to. They too are now appreciating what the prophets really meant regarding the events to happen towards the time of Jehovah&#39;s Day and how it will effect Jehovah&#39;s people and the system of worship we have adopted over the years. Thankfully, they continue to be active JW&#39;s but are more diligent in their resolve to prove to themselves what the scriptures are teaching us, rather than taking for granted that the &#39;faithful slave&#39; have it correct all the time.

Thankfully, I have the opportunity to meet up with Londoner (who is also a member of this DB) and we have some faith strengthening discussions together.

I pray Jehovah will continue to lead you and your husband as you submit to his will, with brotherly affection to you both, Alex.

[Excaliber]

Eli&#39;s Foe,

You are not alone...I am going back to. There just isint anywhere else to go.
And knowone has called on me eather. Not one. I dont know what I will do for the watchtower study though. I have not picked up and have not wanted to pick up a watchtower in a while now. It has just controled my thinking for to long.

Well sneak right back in that kingdom hall...they probably didnot know you were gone....just like my hall.

[Excaliber]

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[Excaliber]

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[Excaliber]

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[Excaliber]

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[Excaliber]

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[Kenneth]

Hi E.F,


You say that you have been on the site for 3 years, is that how long the site has been up and running? Are you completely on your own or do you have someone you can share this with? Have you been able to show anyone else in the 3 years.[/b]

You may find this a lonely existence as talking to other about it is impossible. It&#39;s a bit like a big city plenty of people but no one to talk too. I found e-watchman just over two years ago and have been able to talk to one about it in my immediate family nor my spiritual brothers and sisters. Sharing this information in the congregation would mean spiritual suicide as they would close ranks swiftly. It&#39;s best to keep it for the right time, Jehovah&#39;s time, as I believe he has reviled this &#39;Good News&#39; to us for a reason. I have put questions to brothers in the past on bible matters such the identity of the &#39;man of lawlessness in the Temple of the God&#39;, they are somewhat bemused as they don&#39;t have the answer. The truth of the matter is they have never had to think about it because the society thinks for them.

e-watchman has been establish sine 2001

Kenneth

[fruitage]

Hello Eli&#39;s foe....how are you..

So many things are taking place from without and from within....but the one thing we are all rooted in are Jehovah and Jesus....they will never let us go...and us them, if they give us strength to hang on, and for this we pray daily....we pray for the Kingdom to come and for Gods will to be done , on earth as it is in heavan...

I had considered after 2 yrs of being away from the meetings to find another place to gather at...but could never make the move...I know there are things in the WTS that are not right..but to think of going and listening to a preacher and members of the gathering talking about a loving God burning someone forever...or talking about Jesus being God or other teachings I could not bear...it would be easier for me to go back and endure the things taking place within the WTS realizing we are all imperfect and due to this there can not be a perfect religion....

I realized after over 2 yrs of being away I need my brothers and sisters...and I need to be united by the same spiritual food...even if it is not exactly right sometimes....

After being out for 2 yrs...I have gone through many things....I mean the many opinions from many different persons although well meaning are just too much to digest and take in...so for now I will go back and pray to our heavanly Father to help me endure untill all vestiges of this current system is dismantled to make way for the new heavans and new earth...ruled by Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour

I pray you can endure and draw close to ones who can encourage you

your sis

[fruitage]

Eli&#39;s Foe,

You are not alone...I am going back to. There just isint anywhere else to go.
And knowone has called on me eather. Not one. I dont know what I will do for the watchtower study though. I have not picked up and have not wanted to pick up a watchtower in a while now. It has just controled my thinking for to long.

Well sneak right back in that kingdom hall...they probably didnot know you were gone....just like my hall. [/b]


Hello Excaliber..I wanted to say that because of all the things taking place within and without the WTS...many are leaving and are being stumbled leaving younger less qualified ones to become elders...we need to pray for them to be able to show love and kindness...also the older elders become burned out and suffer stress related health problems....dear brother we must be praying for them and praying for ourself to become longsuffering...

Take care of yourself and endure

your sis