How To Stay Positive On The Meetings

[Juan]

How do you brothers who still attend the meetings keep a positive view of the meetings?

Five years ago I could say I was always encouraged when I attended the meetings. Today I rarely am; although I try very hard to focus on the positive. It's like going to a feast where good wholesome food is served, but among that there is vomit on the tablecloth. Even if the vomit is just a little, just thinking about it turns off my appetite.



So how do you brothers focus on the truth that the brothers very sincerely deliver from the platform but so often also taint their talk with error (also delivered so very sincerely)?

[Kenneth]

Hi Juan

I was under the impression that it was possible to get something out of the meetings in fact I even toyed with idea of integrating myself back into the swing of things a number of weeks ago, but I realized that it was futile. I even withdrew from the board for about six weeks to see if it was possible. However, there's so much vomit being spewed up that I just can't face it. So to answer your question. I have thrown myself into the weekly bible reading and have never benefited so much form Gods word. As I read though the book of Jeremiah I just watch the whole thing unfold in front of my eyes, I sit there in awe. Of course we have the other prophets to study yet, I can tell you it makes the meeting a lot more interesting. I have found in resent week likeminded ones and even though we have kept our conversation limited its nice to know that I'm completely not alone on the issues. I think the only way to survive them is to view it as bible prophecy being fulfilled. Even though it breaks my heart to see so many brothers and sisters mislead but the weekly nonsense coming out of the Revelation Grand Climax book. This week of cause was a discussion of how the faithful slave past the test in 1919. I watched them looking on in awe at the so-called fulfillment of scripture and how wise the society are. It this stuff I find hard to deal with. So my advice is throw yourself into the weekly bible reading and become a real student of Gods word, that way whatever you read will be truthful.

[Candace]

I think that's good advice, to really concentrate on the weekly Bible reading program. I have found it is much more interesting now, than it was before. I guess having this new perspective helps. ;)

One way I have found to make the meetings more interesting is to find a cross-reference scripture that allows the Bible to interpret itself. I just share the two scriptures, and leave it at that. I figure if I were to add my comments of how the cross-reference should be used, then it could stumble people and get me pulled into the library in a hurry. But if all I do is cite scriptures, then I'm on pretty safe ground, AND a thinking person will someday make a connection.

An example of this was done last Thursday during the C.O.'s visit. When the brother asked the question for paragraph 16A, I simply stated, "An easy way I have found to let the Bible interpret itself is to use the cross-reference scripture." I then read Rev. 3:10 again, and then stated that the cross-reference was Matth. 24:21, and I turned to that scripture and read it. And that was it. No further comment was made.

Now, the C.O. visit is for the local language, not the English group I belong to, so the brother conducting the bookstudy then proceeded to translate my comment for the whole audience. This really surprised me, I didn't expect that to happen. I have no idea what went through people's minds, because no one made any comments after the meeting. And I have no idea what comments were made in the local language, but I imagine someone gave an answer that came from the paragraph. But, the cross-reference clearly shows that the hour of test happens during the GT. At some point in time the little light bulb might start going off in people's heads as they put two and two together.

Another thing I do to help me get through the meetings is to just read the Bible and tune out what's going on around me. I had to do that at our recent Circuit Assembly when they gave the public talk on Sunday. It was so full of 1914 garbage that I couldn't listen and had to immerse myself in the Bible.

Also, I miss a lot of meetings because of various chronic illnesses I have to deal with, so for me sitting through the meetings about once a week isn't too difficult. My hat's off to those who manage to sit through 5 meetings a week on a regular basis.

[eyes&ears]

Hi Juan and Kenneth,

I agree also, it is so very hard to stay focused these days at the meetings IT AIN'T EASY. :wacko:

But I do it by waiting to hear what they come up with next. I take notes on way out statements and I write down the scriptures they try to make fit their statements and look them up when I get home. I also tape the really interesting talks, because sometimes I just cannot believe some of the info they are feeding us.

Not everything in the talks is terrible mind you though. There is some pretty good counsel in most of the talks, but there is nothing new. It is the same info I have heard since I have been coming to the meetings starting at age 4. At my first door when I was 5. Sometimes I feel brain dead and totally drained. The statement they make about REPETITION FOR EMPHASIS IS GETTING TIRED VERY TIRED.

I also look for points that can be used to talk with others. Right now that is my main focus. So I want to see how to use certain scriptures with certain issues. Some of the presentations from the platform are very useful. (THANK GOODNESS)!!!! :185:

I sit in my seat and I say to myself when a certain point is just so way off
Now brother you know that is totally to the left and you need to stop it. This helps me keep a good sense of humor so I do not go off the deep end.

If I do not stay focused I will get depressed. So many are suffering from depression and are on anxiety medications or anti-depressants. Now tell me why is this so in A SPIRITUAL PARADISE. Are we just attracting mentally ill folks or is something amiss that is making us ill. Something is wrong with all of this.


When I get really tired of it all. The picture of Jehovah's son comes to mind and I think of how he was nailed to that Stake and all that he went through for me and I get filled up.

I pray to Jehovah real hard and ask him to please help me NOT TO STAND UP IN MY SEAT AND START SCREAMING BECAUSE JUAN AND KENNETH, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I FEEL LIKE DOING SOMETIMES I PRAY and ask JEHOVAH TO HELP ME HOLD ON TO HIM REAL TIGHT SO THAT I WILL NOT TOTALLY LOSE THE MIND I ALMOST LOST 3 YEARS AGO DEALING WITH ALL THIS RIDICULOUS NONSENSE.

AND LASTLY I THINK OF MY MOM THAT I LOST 2 YEARS AGO, I WANT TO BE THERE TO WELCOME HERE BACK FROM THE RESURRECTION. SHE WILL BE LOOKING FOR ME AND I DON'T WANT HER TO WORRY ABOUT HER ONLY CHILD WHO USED TO KEEP HER LAUGHING AND DRIVE HER NUTTY. I FOCUS REAL HARD AND I THINK OF WHAT IT WILL BE LIKE TO GROW INTO PERFECTION OVER TIME AND I WILL BE ABSOLUTELY
GORGEOUS!!!!!! NOW HOW ABOUT THOSE COOKIES BOYS! (Laughing like crazy)

Hope that Helps JUAN.

Lots of Love to you and your family

Sisterly Love

E & E

[Berean]

Another thing I do to help me get through the meetings is to just read the Bible and tune out what's going on around me.[/b]
That's what I do often as well. Sometimes a text will be read, and I find the rest of the chapter so interesting (and the speaker a tad uninteresting, sorry) that I just continue reading, connecting it to what's been said.


SHE WILL BE LOOKING FOR ME AND I DON'T WANT HER TO WORRY ABOUT HER ONLY CHILD WHO USED TO KEEP HER LAUGHING AND DRIVE HER NUTTY.[/b]
Wow, thanks for sharing that great thought. I will definitely have to keep that in mind. Thankfully, I still have my mother with me, but if a day comes that we'll be separated, that one sentence will definitely be a motivation to keep holding on. Thanks, sister. :)

Back to the topic at hand, I always console myself with the thought that even if I only encourage one brother or sister to hold on by my meeting attendance/participation, my day is made. In short, I go to be of help to the others who also use their brains.

[Nambo]

Arrggg!, what does one do?
I know what you guys who go to the meetings are on about, but I stopped going as it was destroying my Love for Jehovah, but now, well only last night I prayed about it, I so want to feel Iam worshipping Jehovah, you know, sitting in a building with other Christians, listening to the Bible being read, and most importantly, singing sngs about how worthy Jehovah alone is of our worship.

I even think about going back to the tiny 900 year old Church of England Church where I was Baptised but though Iam sure those guys feel they are worshipping the God of Abraham, they are worshipping a Trinity god born on December the 25th whose mother was Semi-Remis.

Arrrggg!, what can I do, its driving me mad!

Re the Rev Climax book Ken, the 1919 date is more absurd than the 1914 doctrine, sure people today know there was a 1st World War, but who on Earth knows about a few Bible students being put in Prison for a while in 1919?

yet you only have to read the account in Revelation to see this is a momental witness at the time of the end, yet the time of the end still hasnt come and the so called full-filling of important prophesy in 1919 has been totally and absolutly forgotten!

[Elihu]

I feel the same nambo.

that feeling to be part of a flock of likeminded people worshiping jehovah.
and for quite a few years i have struggled to find my own standing with jehovah, in the reality that i could not become a baptised witness. but the strange thing is that this has made me stronger, in that i have searched for the TRUTH harder, and now i believe it is starting to emerge and what can anyone of us do exept wait for Jehovah to act.,be awake, waiting for scripture to unfold.

just my thoughts
Elihu

[Candace]

If I do not stay focused I will get depressed. So many are suffering from depression and are on anxiety medications or anti-depressants. Now tell me why is this so in A SPIRITUAL PARADISE. Are we just attracting mentally ill folks or is something amiss that is making us ill. Something is wrong with all of this.[/b]

Amen. Keeping your sanity in this time of the end is very difficult. I noticed a turning point back in the early 1990's. It's been downhill since then. For me, the challenges have largely been coming from within the congregation, not from the outside.


I pray to Jehovah real hard and ask him to please help me NOT TO STAND UP IN MY SEAT AND START SCREAMING BECAUSE JUAN AND KENNETH, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I FEEL LIKE DOING SOMETIMES[/b]

I think about that too, and wonder if one of these days I'm going to stand up and scream, "Stop the insanity!" :o

Every week it seems to get harder and harder to make myself go. Today is no exception. Since it's still the C.O.'s visit, the whole thing will be in a language I don't understand, and they have no arrangements for translating, even though the English group has no other meeting arrangements. They used to have translating done in the library, but have now reserved that room for people with chemical sensitivities.

[Juan]

Thanks for the comments brothers (and sisters) they are very helpful.

It was our CO visit last week and my family were scheduled a shepherding call. I was getting myself ready for a JC again as I expected to be questioned about my readings from the WWW, etc. Thankfully all that happened was that he recommended that our family read the whole chapter where the daily text has been taken. We have followed his advice and it is good.

I am also am trying to keep up with the bible reading as set out in TMS; respectively in 2 Kings and Jeremiah this week.

I'll try that advice on reading a portion of the bible only when I am too bothered by what the brothers in the platform are saying.

[Shibboleth]

I have a shepherding call on wednesday and i know it is concerning my meeting attendance for the tuesday night meeting. So i am preping for it.

But how do i continue to make it to the other meetings? I try to focus on the positive. The negative gets me down in the dumps. So I focus on other things in the congregation. Trying to upbuild others and try to have answers for the watchtower study. Like for instance for this past watctower on angels I commented on Elisha and his attendant and teh reason why the king of Syria was after them. So I gave a small history lesson for the people who didn't know the reason why the Syrian King went up to capture Elisha. After the meeting a good friend came up to me and said "Did you have to go through the whole reason why Elisha was to be captured?" I flat out bluntly told him that what he just said was discouraging. he then quickly commented that he was only kidding. Sometimes he is so tactless it frustrates me. he is a cool guy and I help him out from time to time. But I made sure he knew that his comment to me was unacceptable. But that is what friends do. Instead of stewing about it for weeks on end i nipped it in the bud right then and there and told him how I felt. hopefully it will make him think in the future. Don't get me wrong I love to joke around and I am one sarcastic person but some things you really need to think about before you speak. I have put my foot in my mouth many times. Now I just add some salt and pepper to that foot.

another thing I found totally hilarious about this weeks watchtower study was the fact that not even a month ago the watchtower stated it got enlightened information from a spirit annointed one from heaven, but this week we get our info from angels. so which is it?

[eyes&ears]

Shibbo said

"another thing I found totally hilarious about this weeks watchtower study was the fact that not even a month ago the watchtower stated it got enlightened information from a spirit annointed one from heaven, but this week we get our info from angels. so which is it?"

************************************************** *****
The answer is behind DOOR NUMBER 3 ON CHANNEL 4

They will keep switching the CHANNELS until the light gets just right. Something is wrong with the CHANNEL BUTTONS used for adjusting the light. I Heard. :rolleyes: :wacko: :icon_twisted: :rofl:

BAD E & E BAD BAD BAD. Sorry everyone, I just could not help myself.

Love to you all OKEY DOKEY AND WHATEVER WE DO HOLD ON TO OUR NEVER CHANGING GOD JEHOVAH WHO IS CONSISTENT AND GETS IT RIGHT. THERE IS NO CONFUSION WITH OUR FATHER.

NOT TO MENTION THAT SOME OF THE GOBBLY GOOK WE SHOULD NOT BE EATING ANYWAY. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JEHOVAH'S PURPOSES. YOU ARE RIGHT SHIBBO, IT IS COMICAL AT TIMES.

It is good to keep our sense of humor in some of this. It is so very very sad and depressing.

Shibbo , it is also a wonderful thing you are doing by building up the friends. They are going to need a lot of Tender Loving Care (TLC)

Lots of hugs

E & E

[clay]

Getting the perspective from all on this forum has helped stabilize me. Think most of the comments have a little angle that I may not have thought about, or a way of viewing that makes sense. Depressed and down is the resulting attitude after some of the mtgs, like the last week Rev book study, as already mentioned here, regarding the gibberish of 1918.
So, I just listen, and read an occasional scripture. Only comment when there is no conflict with Truth. Think more may be expected of me, but that is all I can do for now. But on a one to one I try to stimulate conversation and thinking.
I have learned so much here, not only about the Bible, but also the events in real-time taking place that are fulfilling prophecy. If one has a good understanding of the Bible, but not events on the world scene, how can they make the connection and tie it all together. ? I've had really good chats regarding the counterfeit gov't Satan is establishing, the New World Order, his mockery of the ultimate solution, God's Kingdom. If they do not know about it, how will they know they may/might be throwing allegiance to Satan inadvertenly--after all, doesn't is sound good, peace, unity, save the environment, save the whales, on and on...

I too, read the Bible during meetings. I try to sit alone so I can do that without drawing attention nor bother anyone.
We have the CO visit starting tomorrow, and I probably am gonna get talked to at the pio mtg, because I have taken to going alone in the ministry, and am not much support for the rest of the group.
It is really a confusing time. Want to share the whole Truth, but just have to stick to basic Bible truths. Conflict results in studies when it comes to certain chapters, timing, doctrinal issues. Guess it is a matter of time till I get called out on some of this.

I keep thinking that one day, all of YOU, yes Kenneth, Nambo, E&E, Candace, Shib, Elihu, Jesh, Berean, Juan, all of you, may play a big part when the Tower falls. Who will be able to explain what happened? Personally I think you all are being primed and prepped for a reason. Take this responsiblity serious, and be there for the mislead, mistaken, and misguided. Whether they listen or not is another subject, but it ain't for not trying.
Remember YOU all here in my prayers,
christian love, and thanks to YOU all for being there,
clay, in the process of being molded, shaped a useful vessel

[Kenneth]

We have the CO visit starting tomorrow, and I probably am gonna get talked to at the pio mtg, because I have taken to going alone in the ministry, and am not much support for the rest of the group.
It is really a confusing time. Want to share the whole Truth, but just have to stick to basic Bible truths. Conflict results in studies when it comes to certain chapters, timing, doctrinal issues. Guess it is a matter of time till I get called out on some of this.[/b]

Clay I understand your pain. Its it just awful to sit through a meeting knowing that truth is being crushed. I haven’t answered for sometime, in this regarded I’m no encouragement to the brothers. If I were to answer I think I would get thrown out of the Kingdom hall. When I first became a JW you couldn’t shut me up, if someone was near they were going to get it both spiritual barrels. As I have said I was going to attempt to make a real effort some weeks ago but my spirit is so crushed that under the current condition of lies and falsehood I don’t have the strength.

Reading the bible during the meeting is a luxury I don’t have as I sit with my wife. She’s aware of my views, well at least some, and reading the bible and not following the program only raises questions.

I don’t know how much more of it I can take its real having an effect on me psychologically. My wife thinks I have given up on Jehovah and that break my heart. She labours under the impression that it all about fitting into the paradigm, something I can’t do. I just know that if they taught the truth that the presence of Christ was immanent and the Lords day was to begin I would go and shout it from the rooftops as I did twenty years ago.

[Candace]

I just know that if they taught the truth that the presence of Christ was immanent and the Lords day was to begin I would go and shout it from the rooftops as I did twenty years ago.[/b]

Be patient Kenneth, the time will soon come. It's really hard to patiently wait, but I agree with Clay's comments that we are being primed and prepped. When the time is right, the rooftop will be ready and waiting for you. ;)

[Shibboleth]

Clay keep positive. Things will work out in the end. I have that much faith in Jehovah. I hardly if ever get out in service. I heard you mention the pioneer meeting, so I gather you are still a pioneer? Keep going at it. Keep preaching. I wish I could do more. We need to get Jesus' message of love out to the masses.

on a side note : I see how WTBTS came to the 1914 date. It makes sense in a way, but I don't believe it is the date Jesus starts ruling. I do believe it is a significant date. I don't know how or why, but I can just feel it. Maybe it's the years of indoctrinization or maybe it's my gut. What I don't understand and find it hard to swallow is that I thought Jesus rule starts after Armegeddon. I thought his rule starts after the marriage feast. the merging of the heavenly and earthly. So it's hard to swallow that Jesus has already started ruling. If he was ruling shouldn't we be in the paradise? This is hard to grasp since it seems logic should play out in this matter. Maybe when Jesus comes to inspect he will shed more light on the matter. I prayed awfully hard on this last night. It seemed like it was an all night prayer. Every time I woke during the night I talked to Jehovah to help me see the light. I guess we all have to pray about it. Asking continuosly for Jehovah to forgive us as we talk to Him about it. Maybe this is part of the sighing and groaning.

[Nambo]

Shibboleth, Clay, Kenneth and you others who are still enduring, my hats off to you, one thing to remember, you are not going to the meetings to be a good JW, to please men, to be promoted whatever, your motives are probably amongst the purist in the Kingdom Hall, you are going there as it is the nearest form of Jehovah worship you can find, YOU ARE GOING TO PLEASE JEHOVAH!

Just think on that as you endure the weeds that are choking the Wheat.

Re 1914 Shib, it could well have been allowed as so much has had to be done to get the message to so many people that Gods Kingdom is coming, and now we see that it surely must be near!
Many other groups are getting on the bandwagen, even people who are not at all religious, but it was the JWs that where doing this stuff to such an extent first!

Also I thank you Clay for the kind remarks that amongst others I might be of some importance, how releaved I would be if Jehovah did have such a thing in mind, personally though, I just feel Iam helping you strong ones who are enduring and who are in the right place to help the Brothers when the TEST comes.

Love to you all.

[clay]

Hey Kenneth, mature words from a spiritually wise One that did help when I initially stumbled and landed on this forum were ...to consider that this emotional upheaval, distress, depression , these agonizing horrible realizations, these nightmares, sleepless nights, all of the mental anguish we have all experienced to varying degrees... are a form of discipline from Jehovah. Yeah. Yep. that simple. When I considered this possibility it made sense.

Wow, did that realization affect my prayers! Now, I want/have to do IT right, and have been given 2nd chance with more (correct) understanding (growing all the time).
Within the framework of the WTORG I learned basic Bible Truths from, but it has been infiltrated by Agents of the Enemy under the appearance of Light. Just exactly like the Temple worship. But it was the arrangement Jehovah allowed at the time, and now. So there I am.

Now I know of 2 others who were in a similiar situation with the Spouse not tracking as the Other learned of these things. In both situations time was needed. In one it took years of patience, love, kindly explanations. In time Jehovah directed things in the most unexpected ways, and it has, and is paying off. Go so slow with her. Her loyalty is commendable. Gain her trust by sharing nuggets with her, let her really see how your love for Jehovah and Truth runs deep and solid.
At mtgs I give an answer or 2 from the Bible, then zone out. Meditate, pray, scheme on how to use this/that point to reason. I don't expect to win any converts, but make 'em think. Some points will stick, maybe. Then the door is opened.

Shib, appreciate your words. Though time does not permit daily visits to even read, nor comment regularly, I find positive encouragement here. Remember, regular "service" the arrangement familiar within the cong, is not needed to preach. Although that arrangement has benefits, getting closer to different ones, stimulating their awareness of events on the world scene, which leads to how things will go down. That in turn gives perfect chance to reason from the Scriptures. Am becoming known for being able to carry on conversation on world events --a little--and now have certain ones asking my views on___.
For which I credit YOU guys, this forum, for growing understanding. Repetitive,,,but Thanks again, to YOU all. clay

[Kenneth]

Do you know Clay the amount of secular work I have had to get through in the last three years has been terrifying. Yet in comparison to the knowledge we have here its been a walk in the park. If I ploughed as much time into my secular life as I do thinking about what&#39;s happening in the Watchtower I be a rich man. Days past when I&#39;ve accomplished nothing, then I have to work like the clapper to meet deadlines and why because I can&#39;t get any of this out of my mind.. I should be working now instead of writing this, but there you go that&#39;s me for you. Most of my time is spent agonizing over scripture and how it affects us. I go to bed each night and think scenarios through. I mean is there anything else in life anyway, if there is I certainly haven&#39;t found it. I&#39;ve been trying to find the middle ground for years, how to survive the Watchtower and be part of this. I have some time off in a few weeks an I intend to give it some real consideration.</span> </span>

[Jeshurun]

I haven&#39;t commented on this thread because I felt it wasn&#39;t my place since I don&#39;t attend meetings. But I would like to take the opportunity to say that I deeply admire and commend all of you who do, this being so difficult considering what you know.

As far as current world events, I find it mind boggling how this is not discussed at meetings. How on earth can a Christian "keep on the watch" for the signs that Jesus said to look for without investigating what world leaders are doing behind the scenes? And of course the internet is taboo, which means witnesses have to rely on the mainstream media which is virtual blindness, if not the outright opposite of what is really happening.

I have struggled greatly with the issue of going back. I do not feel I am capable of pulling it off. Things would get UGLY.

You know if you took the rulerships of the five Babylonian kings between the fall of Jerusalem and the fall of Babylon, the Watchtower itself is in agreement with historians as to the length of each of their rulerships down to 539 BC, when Cyrus took out Babylon. Simple math says that since Jerusalem was destroyed in Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s 18th/19th year as king, there&#39;s no getting around the date for the fall of Jerusalem as being 586/587 BC, not 607. Yet the WT has no answer for this. Of course this is one of scores of things that refute 1914, but it&#39;s so elementary that I could never contain myself if I were surrounded by Witnesses.

As Nambo said, hats off to ya! You&#39;re definitely doing it for Jehovah, not the Borg.

Agape
Lou

[eyes&ears]

WELL AS I SAY FROM TIME TO TIME. HOLD ON AS TIGHT TO JEHOVAH AS YOU CAN. PRAY AS MUCH AS YOU CAN FOR HOLY SPIRIT, DIRECTION, STRENGTH, THE ABILITY TO STAND FIRM, UNMOVABLE. STAY FOCUSED ON JEHOVAH&#39;S PURPOSE AND PROMISES.

AS NAMBO SAID WE ARE SERVING JEHOVAH NOT MAN.

LET&#39;S CONTINUE TO STAY CLOSE AND BUILD ONE ANOTHER UP AS LONG AS WE HAVE THIS MEANS OF COMMUNICATION. THIS IS A VERY EMOTIONAL TIME FOR MANY OF US AS WE CONTINUE IN OUR SPIRITUAL AWAKENING/WALK.

WHATEVER WE DO, I PRAY WE ALWAYS TAKE IT TO JEHOVAH FIRST, COUNT THE COST OF WHAT YOU DO.

JEHOVAH WOULD NOT ASK US TO DO SOMETHING THAT WE COULD NOT.

I AM GOING TO SIT RIGHT THERE IN THOSE MEETINGS AND CONTINUE

TO EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND IGNORE THE SPIRITUAL GOOBLY GOOK

UNTIL I KNOW FOR SURE THAT JEHOVAH SAYS

OKAY E & E GET OUT NOW!!!! I WILL KNOW HIS VOICE AND THEN AND

ONLY THEN WILL I HIT THE BRICKS. I LEFT PREMATURELY BEFORE. I

WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN.


I STILL BELIEVE THIS IS A CLEANSING/REFINING/TESTING TIME FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE BLESSED WITH THIS INFORMATION. IF WE CANNOT DEAL WITH SOME STUFF NOW, HOW WILL JEHOVAH BE ABLE TO ENTRUST US WITH ANYTHING ELSE.

THOSE ARE MY E & E OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS COMING FROM MY PEA BRAIN.

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE KNOWN YOU ALL FOR YEARS. I FEEL YOU ARE MY EXTENDED FAMILY. I HAVE ONLY ONE CLOSE RELATIVE WHO IS NOT NOT ONE OF JEHOVAH&#39;S PEOPLE AND NOT INTERESTED AT THE MOMENT. MY HUSBAND IS NOT INTERESTED PRESENTLY, BUT PERHAPS LATER JEHOVAH WILL WORK WITH HIM.

SO WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU ALL IS OF CONCERN TO ME.

PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP HOLDING ON TIGHT AND DON&#39;T LET JEHOVAH GO OKEY DOKEY.

LOTS AND LOTS OF SISTERLY LOVE
E & E

[juffowup]

Another thought: Switch congregations. You&#39;ll be surprised at the amount of variation there is between warm and spiritual congregations and cold, "theocratic" ones. Find a humble elder body, a congregation that can laugh out loud and put some personality in their talks and comments, and where people will care about you, not just in the "fake smile and wish you warm and well fed" way, but in a genuine way. It might take a while, but odds are there are a dozen congregations within an hour&#39;s drive of you. I bet one of them would be a refreshment. That alone can make the meetings more bearable.

[Dorcas]

Another thought: Switch congregations. You&#39;ll be surprised at the amount of variation there is between warm and spiritual congregations and cold, "theocratic" ones. Find a humble elder body, a congregation that can laugh out loud and put some personality in their talks and comments, and where people will care about you, not just in the "fake smile and wish you warm and well fed" way, but in a genuine way. It might take a while, but odds are there are a dozen congregations within an hour&#39;s drive of you. I bet one of them would be a refreshment. That alone can make the meetings more bearable.[/b]
Dear Juff,
Great advice! Might I add that small congregations are generally friendlier and give brothers a better chance to serve. Also, new congregations appreciate experienced publishers. It&#39;s fun to train the new ones in door-to-door. You can gather around you a little spiritual family. Don&#39;t be afraid to shop around, though, because your spiritual growth and joy is very important.
Love, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Another thought: Switch congregations. You&#39;ll be surprised at the amount of variation there is between warm and spiritual congregations and cold, "theocratic" ones. Find a humble elder body, a congregation that can laugh out loud and put some personality in their talks and comments, and where people will care about you, not just in the "fake smile and wish you warm and well fed" way, but in a genuine way. It might take a while, but odds are there are a dozen congregations within an hour&#39;s drive of you. I bet one of them would be a refreshment. That alone can make the meetings more bearable.[/b]
As Dorcas says, "good advice". Of course many are in the same position as Lou, even if they dont frequent this Board. Unfortunately however not all of us can take the advice. Where I live there are two congregations available and for reasons I cant go into here, there is no option to travel further afield.
Even so, one is cold and unyielding, the other at least prima facie is warmer by all accounts though it is difficult to be sure without commiting to it. There is a problem though, at least for me because I simply dont think I can go along with the rules and regulations to which I no longer subscribe. Frankly I too take my hat off to those of you who can still sit through 5 meetings a week whilst resorting in large part to reading the bible, I cant. In fact even before we found this site, I had not been able to sustain my interest. Now, some would say that was spiritual weakness, maybe it is/was but personally I need to be mentally engaged to remain attentive, and the WTS rarely offers that sort of meeting programme.
The other problem is that if like me you have not attended for a while, going along to another congregation is fine initially. I have little doubt we would be welcomed as we are known to many there and a few elders had even suggested it to me before we stopped attending our own congregation. So if we suppose that we initially go along to the Sunday meetings, over time we will be asked questions I am sure about attending the other meetings, officially changing congregation, joining a book study etc. That&#39;s where I personally have a problem, I simply dont think all those meetings are necessary and for me that&#39;s a burden after twenty years of going along with the arrangement. On the other hand, I dont want to let a new congregation down after showing loving encouragement for me and my family. So it&#39;s a dilemma.
Robert routinely answers questions on this topic of meeting attendance. In a recent blog he was asked about reporting hours - this time he said that whilst there was no scriptural basis for it, brothers and sisters should go along with the arrangement. On another occasion I seem to remember him saying that he thought there was something in this counting of hours which was akin to King David&#39;s unauthorised census of the people. Issues like this have become critical for me. Frankly, I dont want to be doing something which offends my conscience, or takes up time I feel is unnecessary.
I&#39;m sorry if this sounds a little negative, on what is an essentially positive thread, but I&#39;m sure I&#39;m not alone in being unable to resolve this matter at the present time.
I do know one thing, I&#39;m happier now than I have been in recent years, so maybe my mind-set will continue to change. I was being drained of my spirituality attending my congregation for a whole host of reasons, now at last things are being refocussed - but that does mean that I will not just go on as before, or I will be back at square one.
Sorry for the ramble!

EF

[juffowup]

So if we suppose that we initially go along to the Sunday meetings, over time we will be asked questions I am sure about attending the other meetings, officially changing congregation, joining a book study etc.[/b]

When that happens, just politely decline the offer, saying something along the lines of "it is such a struggle to get to one meeting right now in your present frame of mind, but please do continue to keep me in your prayers." The reaction will tell you much about the congregation.

My situation at my old hall was that all the elders knew I thought that 1914 was a load of hooey, they couldn&#39;t refute my thinking and research along those lines, I declined their offer to write to the society for clarification (other people better than I have tried and failed), and agreed to wait on Jehovah for change and to not stumble others. I had no desire to do the latter, and there ain&#39;t much I can do to speed up the former. And you know what? I stepped down as servant, was picky on what subject I&#39;d do a ministry school on, but other than that, there were zero reprocussions.

In the hall I moved to a year ago, I am something of a pariah. I am not shunned, nothing judicial has happened, but I am not allowed to do ANYTHING to serve the congregation, rove mikes, read at the study, pray at FS, nothing, and the sheep follow the sheppard&#39;s leads so my wife and I get the cold sholder from most of the hall, despite my wife being a 100% committed Jehovah&#39;s Witness™ whereas I content myself to be a simple witness of Jehovah.

We are actively looking at other halls, and I realize I am fortunate enough to be in a situation where there are a dozen or so within an hour&#39;s drive. But for every person stuck in a remote area or for other personal reasons can&#39;t move, there are ones in my situation that might not think to make the leap because of the admonishment to "go where you&#39;re assigned".


Robert routinely answers questions on this topic of meeting attendance. In a recent blog he was asked about reporting hours - this time he said that whilst there was no scriptural basis for it, brothers and sisters should go along with the arrangement. On another occasion I seem to remember him saying that he thought there was something in this counting of hours which was akin to King David&#39;s unauthorised census of the people. Issues like this have become critical for me. Frankly, I dont want to be doing something which offends my conscience, or takes up time I feel is unnecessary.[/b]

A thought. The census was a sin on David&#39;s head. Israel suffered because of it, but they had no choice in the matter either way. I don&#39;t think you can make the argument that sitting at home and avoiding meetings is going to save anyone from any judgments that Jehovah would see fit to put on His people. But as David said, better to fall into His hands then the hands of men.

Everyone has to decide where in Jehovah&#39;s scheme they fit, and then do their best to be there. Often times this will lead to apparent conflicts of interest, and only with a finely honed conscience, Jehovah&#39;s help, and faith in Jesus sacrifice will anyone hope to figure it all out.

[Dorcas]

<div class='quotemain'>Another thought: Switch congregations. You&#39;ll be surprised at the amount of variation there is between warm and spiritual congregations and cold, "theocratic" ones. Find a humble elder body, a congregation that can laugh out loud and put some personality in their talks and comments, and where people will care about you, not just in the "fake smile and wish you warm and well fed" way, but in a genuine way. It might take a while, but odds are there are a dozen congregations within an hour&#39;s drive of you. I bet one of them would be a refreshment. That alone can make the meetings more bearable.[/b]
As Dorcas says, "good advice". Of course many are in the same position as Lou, even if they dont frequent this Board. Unfortunately however not all of us can take the advice. Where I live there are two congregations available and for reasons I cant go into here, there is no option to travel further afield.
Even so, one is cold and unyielding, the other at least prima facie is warmer by all accounts though it is difficult to be sure without commiting to it. There is a problem though, at least for me because I simply dont think I can go along with the rules and regulations to which I no longer subscribe. Frankly I too take my hat off to those of you who can still sit through 5 meetings a week whilst resorting in large part to reading the bible, I cant. In fact even before we found this site, I had not been able to sustain my interest. Now, some would say that was spiritual weakness, maybe it is/was but personally I need to be mentally engaged to remain attentive, and the WTS rarely offers that sort of meeting programme.
The other problem is that if like me you have not attended for a while, going along to another congregation is fine initially. I have little doubt we would be welcomed as we are known to many there and a few elders had even suggested it to me before we stopped attending our own congregation. So if we suppose that we initially go along to the Sunday meetings, over time we will be asked questions I am sure about attending the other meetings, officially changing congregation, joining a book study etc. That&#39;s where I personally have a problem, I simply dont think all those meetings are necessary and for me that&#39;s a burden after twenty years of going along with the arrangement. On the other hand, I dont want to let a new congregation down after showing loving encouragement for me and my family. So it&#39;s a dilemma.
Robert routinely answers questions on this topic of meeting attendance. In a recent blog he was asked about reporting hours - this time he said that whilst there was no scriptural basis for it, brothers and sisters should go along with the arrangement. On another occasion I seem to remember him saying that he thought there was something in this counting of hours which was akin to King David&#39;s unauthorised census of the people. Issues like this have become critical for me. Frankly, I dont want to be doing something which offends my conscience, or takes up time I feel is unnecessary.
I&#39;m sorry if this sounds a little negative, on what is an essentially positive thread, but I&#39;m sure I&#39;m not alone in being unable to resolve this matter at the present time.
I do know one thing, I&#39;m happier now than I have been in recent years, so maybe my mind-set will continue to change. I was being drained of my spirituality attending my congregation for a whole host of reasons, now at last things are being refocussed - but that does mean that I will not just go on as before, or I will be back at square one.
Sorry for the ramble!

EF
[/b][/quote] Dear EF and Juff,
Can you imagine Jesus or Paul going amongst the disciples to collect time slips? There are many of us who shy away from the meetings because we have to be true to ourselves. Even with the size of the Jewish nation, a census was taken only with Jah&#39;s approval. I suppose something has to do with the printing of literature and distribution of other goods, but I pioneered a long time and saw many friends "Fudging" time. It became rediculous! And my personal Bible study is done with a real curiosity, a zest for info and understanding. My heart hasn&#39;t been at the meetings for a long time. People would critique my WT answers, and occasionally challange them right in the meeting. I started getting so nervous that I felt like the meetings were becoming more of a performance. I used to be wet with sweat wondering if my answers were correct and if my research was in the bounds of WTS teachings. The elders started to ignore my hand. If they were forced to call on me they would look at their watches to remind me not to say too much. If I tried to share a positive experience in the service, they would cut me off mid-sentence. I had to either leave, or shut up and play dumb (that was the kind of sister they wanted!! -- quiet and dumb!) When I look back, I ask myself how I put up with it for so long. I guess I was afraid to leave...
Take heart friends. Read your Bibles, do smoe research, and share it with us. Jehovah will bless your effort.
Love to all, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[Shibboleth]

The same friend I have mentioned quite a few times told me he had sat across from Carey Barber on a number occasions at the dinner table at Bethel and had the privelege of being his friend was told by Bro. Barber that it wasn&#39;t the amount of time you spend in the service, but how much you love Jehovah. My friend told me that Bro. Barber was a very kind, generous and knowledgeable man. He also told me that he also had some of the same sentiments about time. He reminded me that the brothers need to know so they can see how much literature to put out and also give us a morale boost.

The problem some people have, and I am going through this with an elder in my hall on Thursday, is that some people put alot of emphasis on time. The amount of time you have equates how much responsibility you get and that is wrong. My friend feels it is wrong to judge people by the amount of time. It&#39;s not the amount that matters but how we serve Jehovah that matters in the long run.

Do what you can. Your two coins mean so much as well as mine. 2 + 2 = 4 it will all add up to some real blessings. Your 2 coins may mean someone&#39;s salvation.

[Berean]

He reminded me that the brothers need to know so they can see how much literature to put out and also give us a morale boost.[/b]
I&#39;m sorry, but I&#39;m just not seeing it. The amount of literature to be sent out can be judged by how much the brothers and sisters order at the hall, so you wouldn&#39;t need time reports for that. As for morale boost, how much of a boost is it when you know that many write their reports with two pens? When parents don&#39;t have to go out in service so often because they can conduct a study with their kids (which isn&#39;t actually field service but an essential part of a Christian lifestyle)? When the quarter you walk to your first territory isn&#39;t counted, but the half hour between territories is?

[Shibboleth]

berean so true.

I think my point was, that alot of people see it as an issue. but we continue forward anyways. to some, hours may be a status symbol. To others it can be a stumbling block.

I had told the brother I was going to put a big slash for hours. (I also discussed this with watchman a day ago) I was depressed about an elder telling someone in the hall who is not an elder or MS that I don&#39;t have priveleges because I am a &#39;low hour publisher&#39;. This should not be chit chat talk amongst elders to the people of the congregation. Watchman, my dad and my close friend had told me to talk to the elder about what he said and see why it was said and to rectify it with the elder.

anyways I am gonna continue just putting my hours in even if it&#39;s only 1 hour. I don&#39;t care what people think anymore. To be honest the hour thing just depresses me. I just try and pump myself up and not think about it.

Funny how the subject of hours came up when I am going through a problem with it this week. :D

[Berean]

Yeah, of course I&#39;m still turning in hours as well. It&#39;s not a lot, but at least I know that I, like you Shib, am not artificially increasing my ministry hours, whatever the consequences of that. I have a feeling it plays a part in not being allowed to do simple things like reading the Watchtower or praying at the meetings, but they can keep their privileges if I can just keep serving Jehovah the way He wants me to.

[eyes&ears]

Good for you Berean, great upbuilding attitude. That&#39;s the main point to serve Jehovah the way Jehovah wants us to serve him.

An elder said to me once, if we are fortunate enough to make it into the new system, and start looking around, .... the people we thought would make it did not, but the people we thought would not make it WILL. I NEVER FORGOT THAT STATEMENT.

Privileges mean didly squat, if the heart is not where it should be.

KEEP HOLDING ON BEREAN OKEY DOKEY.

E & E