Undeserved kindness

[Juan23]

This has already been mentioned here. While considering the daily texts I came across Eph 2:8. When I compared the translations I had in e-sword the excerpts below came out.

There does seem to be a difference when "charis" is rendered "grace" rather than "undeserved kindness". With "grace' God's love comes out as compared to "undeserved kindness" which seem to emphasize our unworthiness.


Eph 2:8

(ASV) for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

(KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(KJV+) ForG1063 by graceG5485 areG2075 ye savedG4982 throughG1223 faith;G4102 andG2532 thatG5124 notG3756 ofG1537 yourselves:G5216 it is theG3588 giftG1435 of God:G2316

(KJVA) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(New World Translation) By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God's gift.

G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

[Jeshurun]

Try telling your kids that you're feeding them and giving them shelter because of your "undeserved kindness". Maybe even tell them that if they're really good, you might not kill them. That oughta make them feel really special....

Love,
Jesh

[uglyandthin]

Hi Jesh:

Yea, kill them forever, with no hope of forgiveness or resurrection because that's what they really "deserve".

uglyandthin

[SlaveForJah]

If we do not deserve death, then what did Christ save us from?


Agape

SlaveForJah

[elihu]

[QUOTE]
If we do not deserve death, then what did Christ save us from?



absolutley SFJ

to conclude that Jehovah is the killer is wrong but he is a God of righteousness and justice but also mercy that is why Christ came
he saved us from death and he is not the killer, Satan is the man slayer
christ is the saviour.

agape

elihu

[Jeshurun]

If we do not deserve death, then what did Christ save us from?


Hi Slave,

Wasn't looking for a doctrinal debate, although this is a good question that would be nice to discuss sometime in a different venue (it would break the rules here).

My point was, the New World Translation gurus have consistently and conveniently found ways to hammer home their point that we should be obedient little bookbag-toting automatons, never questioning the direction of the Mother Ship, rather than think for ourselves. Translating 'charis' as undeserved kindness was quite creative, and once again the NWT stands alone in its rendition of the "real meaning" behind the words of the Bible writers.

Love,
Jesh

[Molly]

Hi Juan23-

Thank you for pointing out the mischaracterization of the translation of "charis."

If one notes the acceptable synonyms one does not find a modifying adjective in front of any of them suggesting unworthiness. We find acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious) joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, worthy). They have presumed to insert something that is not there at all and have basically redefined the meaning of the original word. What the WTS has done is comparable to translating something like "la robe" as "the ugly dress." That is irresponsible translating. Just as la robe means the dress, it does not mean the ugly dress, even if the dress is actually ugly. One might try to argue that we aren't worthy, but that is irrelevant when it comes to translating. the "undeserved" part is not a correct translation of "charis" whether we are worthy or not.

Molly

[shikinah]

I have to say I have always found the wording "undeserved kindness" a bit unloving. Its like its been worded this way to make you never forget your a sinner and it makes you feel guilty for the sins of your original parent, how are you suppose to be joyous and appreciative of the ransom in its correct context when your constantly reminded of how unworthy you really are.
I think this is one of my main reasons for never getting baptised, I never felt worthy.

Shikinah

[uglyandthin]

Hi Shikinah:

I agree that the expression "undeserved kindness" is not an appropriate translation in this case, although I also admit that I am not an expert translator nor linguist. To tell the truth I have never disected the term.

If I were to do so, I would say that on our own merits we no not deserve the kindness or mercy that Jehovah shows to us, but on the other hand, when a gift is given, it is usually the giver who desides the worthiness of the reciever. In this case, Jehovah thinks that we are deserving of this gift. Why so? My answer may answer a question that was made on another topic and that is, can God tell the future? I believe he can and does and especially as regards this topic. What do I mean?

Like I said before, we are not worthy of God's gift or mercy on our own merit in the sense that we have earned the mercy or the gift. However, that does not make us unworthy either. What God sees is if we are repentent and faithful, or "will be" repentent and faithful at some future time. It is for this reason that God can find us acceptable and "worthy" of his gift of mercy or "grace". We are worthy of the gift, not on our own, but because we have accepted the terms of the gift, which is repentence and faith in him and/or his Son.

So, all things being said, I prefer grace to undeserved kindness. I am not willing to say that the translator of this particular portion of the NWT of the Bible was deliberately trying to cloud the issue, or just did not think it through thoroughly enough. I would hope the latter. Perhaps he or she was just trying to come up with a more colorful way of saying grace.

uglyandthin

[billy2]

We were born as humans because of God wanted to give us a chance at being alive - we didnt ask for this gift of life or earn it - and God is also offering us an extended gift of everlasting life which is also a gift and not earned, although the extended gift of everlasting life has requirements - living with Gods boundries so the we can all live together in harmony based on Love - i see the "kindness"of God as a loving act - Jehovah wants us to have life and life with abundance - just like we want to have children - imparting the gift of life - and see them develop into decent, loving and productive human beings - this is what God wants for us - i feel the wts tends to use guilt as motivation for doing God's will - this is a mistake many parents do as well - and using the term underserved is a negative slant on Gods KINDNESS - when i read a scripture with this phrase - i mentally omitt the underserved and focus on the word KINDNESS

agape :D

[elihu]

We were born as humans because of God wanted to give us a chance at
being alive - we didnt ask for this gift of life or earn it - and God is also offering us an extended gift of everlasting life which is also a gift and not earned, although the extended gift of everlasting life has requirements - living with Gods boundries so the we can all live together in harmony based on Love - i see the "kindness"of God as a loving act - Jehovah wants us to have life and life with abundance - just like we want to have children - imparting the gift of life - and see them develop into decent, loving and productive human beings - this is what God wants for us - i feel the wts tends to use guilt as motivation for doing God's will - this is a mistake many parents do as well - and using the term underserved is a negative slant on Gods KINDNESS - when i read a scripture with this phrase - i mentally omitt the underserved and focus on the word KINDNESS

agape :D

well said Billy2

without the life that we have already, even though it is imperfect contained within satans world ending in old age sickness and death, we would have no hope of the everlasting life., that Christ promised to those who belive in Him
therefore this life is in itself truly a gift from Jehovah.

elihu