When is the last days?

[Juan23]

Act 2:17-21 '"And in the last days," God says, "I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams;

and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.

And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist;

the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives.

And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved."'


The things mentioned in this particular piece of scripture hasn't happened yet so the last days is still future.

[shikinah]

Act 2:17-21 '"And in the last days," God says, "I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams;

and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.

And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist;

the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives.

And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved."'


The things mentioned in this particular piece of scripture hasn't happened yet so the last days is still future.

This is an interesting prophesy, I wonder how the watchtower interprets this :confused:
This is a prophesy which definitely hasn't happened yet, I wonder what every sort of flesh means?

Shikinah

[Juan23]

I searched the WT CD 2008. It would seem Acts 2:17 is applied to Pentecost only, avoiding discussing the words "last days".

*** jd chap. 13 p. 167 par. 4 “Proclaim This, You People, Among the Nations” ***
4 Look at the matter from another standpoint. Jehovah God told the prophet Joel of a time when people of every sort would prophesy, so to speak: “After that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see.” (Joel 2:28-32) On the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., the apostle Peter applied this passage to the pouring out of holy spirit upon those who were gathered in an upper chamber in Jerusalem and to their subsequent preaching of “the magnificent things of God.” (Acts 1:12-14; 2:1-4, 11, 14-21)

*** w02 8/1 p. 15 Stirred by “the Magnificent Things of God” ***
Moved to Action!
4 Having received the holy spirit, the disciples in Jerusalem lost no time in sharing the good news of salvation with others, beginning with the crowd who had gathered that morning. Their preaching fulfilled a remarkable prophecy, recorded eight centuries earlier by Joel, the son of Pethuel: “I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy. As for your old men, dreams they will dream. As for your young men, visions they will see. And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit . . . before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.”—Joel 1:1; 2:28, 29, 31; Acts 2:17, 18, 20.
5 Did this mean that God was going to raise up a whole generation of prophets, both male and female, in the manner of David, Joel, and Deborah, and use them to foretell future events? No. Christian ‘sons and daughters, menservants and maidservants’ would prophesy in the sense that they would be impelled by Jehovah’s spirit to declare “the magnificent things” that Jehovah had done and would still do. So they would serve as spokesmen for the Most High. How, though, did the crowd react?—Hebrews 1:1, 2.

*** w98 5/1 pp. 13-14 pars. 2-4 Who Will “Get Away Safe”? ***
2 When that new nation began to exist, important events took place that fulfilled Joel’s prophetic words. We read of these events at Acts 2:2-4: “Suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.” In this way those 120 faithful men and women became a spiritual nation, the first members of what the apostle Paul later called “the Israel of God.”—Galatians 6:16.
3 Crowds gathered to investigate the “rushing stiff breeze,” and the apostle Peter explained to them that one of Joel’s prophecies was being fulfilled. Which prophecy? Well, listen to what he said: “‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams; and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist; the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives. And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’” (Acts 2:17-21) The words Peter quoted are found at Joel 2:28-32, and their fulfillment meant that time was running out for the Jewish nation. “The great and illustrious day of Jehovah,” a time of reckoning for unfaithful Israel, was near. But who would be saved, or get away safe? And what did this foreshadow?
Two Fulfillments of Prophecy
4 In the years following 33 C.E., the spiritual Israel of God flourished, but the fleshly nation of Israel did not. In 66 C.E., fleshly Israel was at war with Rome. In 70 C.E., Israel almost ceased to exist, and Jerusalem along with its temple was burned to the ground. At Pentecost 33 C.E., Peter gave fine counsel in view of that approaching tragedy. Again quoting Joel, he said: “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” Each individual Jew had to make a personal decision to call upon Jehovah’s name. This included heeding Peter’s further instructions: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins.” (Acts 2:38) Peter’s listeners had to accept Jesus as the Messiah, whom Israel as a nation had rejected.

*** it-1 p. 651 Dream ***
Joel foretold that the outpouring of God’s spirit would be followed by such manifestations as prophesying and the dreaming of inspired dreams. (Joe 2:28) It was on the day of Pentecost in the year 33 C.E. that some 120 disciples of Jesus Christ received the holy spirit and began speaking in various tongues “about the magnificent things of God.” (Ac 2:1-18) Later, other believers, including the former persecutor Saul (Paul), received the holy spirit and were empowered with miraculous gifts. (Ac 8:17-19; 9:17; 10:44-46) While in Troas, Paul had a night vision or dream that provided guidance as to where he and his associates were to preach “the good news.” (Ac 16:9, 10) Other disciples doubtless also had dreams under the influence of God’s spirit, fulfilling the words of Joel’s prophecy.

*** it-2 p. 206 Last Days ***
Last Days of the Jewish System of Things. Less than three and a half years before the non-Jews became part of the Christian congregation, God’s spirit was poured out on faithful Jewish disciples of Jesus Christ. At that time Peter explained that this was in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy, saying: “‘And in the last days,’ God says, ‘I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh . . . And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist; the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives.’” (Ac 2:16-20) In this case “the last days” preceded “the great and illustrious day of Jehovah,” which “day” apparently brought “the last days” to their conclusion. (Compare Zep 1:14-18; Mal 4:5; Mt 11:13, 14; see DAY OF JEHOVAH.) Since Peter addressed natural Jews and Jewish proselytes, his words must have had particular reference to them and evidently indicated that they were living in “the last days” of the then-existing Jewish system of things with its center of worship at Jerusalem. Earlier, Christ Jesus himself had foretold the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple (Lu 19:41-44; 21:5, 6), which occurred in 70 C.E.

[uglyandthin]

Hi Juan23:

These are some interesting scriptures that you quote and the comments by the WT are interesting as well. I have been giving this topic some thought lately and I will share some of the conclusions that I have drawn so far, right or wrong.

The Pentecost that is mentioned in the Bible at Acts 2 is the Pentecost that is attached to the Passover. What I mean is that you have the Passover, then the festival of cakes, from the first day of the festival of cakes you count 7 days, then an additional 42 days for a total of 49 days or 7daysX7, then the next day is Pentecost. On that day in 33 C.E. was the outpouring of God's Holy Spirit on those gathered in the upper room who were awaiting the promise from Jesus to pour out the Holy Spirit from God.

The question is, would this Pentecost represent in every way how the Holy Spirit would be poured out onto "all sorts of flesh" in the "last days".
Although I think it is definately a "type" of what will happen, I think what actually happens will be somewhat different as it will be for a different group, and for a different purpose. Perhaps this is the reason that the WT cannot see an application to the last days, as they are only focused on the "annointed" who are covenanted to Jesus in marriage.

Jesus made a promise with his "bride" at the Passover, and he sealed that promise with them in "Holy Spirit" at Pentecost. Why is it though that the WT celebrates the Passover, but not Pentecost? Paul makes mention of celebrating Pentecost on a couple of occasions. Look up Pentecost and reference the scriptures if you need proof. I beleive these two festivals are tied together, they do not it seems.

But is it the Pentecost which is 50 days after the Passover (actually 50 days after the start of Cakes) that represents the pouring out of the Holy Spirit in the Last Days? I do not think so. James says this at James 5:7,8...

7 Exercise patience, therefore, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until he gets the early rain and the late rain. 8 YOU too exercise patience; make YOUR hearts firm, because the presence of the Lord has drawn close.

I believe that the "early rain" is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the "early fruit" which is represented by the harvest of the "Bride of Christ" which is pictured by the dual festivals of "Cakes" and "Pentecost", the proof of which we have illustrated for us in Acts 2.

Now the "late rain" I think is perhaps the pouring out of the Holy Spirit that we are awaiting in these "last days" and whereas they had "Cakes and Pentecost" representing the "early rain" perhaps we have something to do with the Festival of Booths which is of course another harvest celebration, as the Jews were an agricultural people and all or at least most of Jesus' illustration were appropriately agricultural. One more interesting point is that the festival of Cakes was for the early harvest and Booths was for the "final ingathering", how appropriate can it get. Booths runs from Tishri 15 to 21, so if we are to expect another type of Pentecost, perhaps it will be at or around Chislev5-11 of some upcoming year? Sure would be a nice cap to an all but forgotten festival, huh?

By the way, I think that in the case of the early rain and fruits, it was Jehovah's Holy Spirit that was poured out on a 1:1 basis. In this latter outpouring, I get the feeling it will be Jesus "Holy Spirit", his Bride that will be poured out (also on a 1:1 basis), which is appropriate as they will be the ones ruling the Kingdom of God. Just my thoughts...

uglyandthin

I have started a new thread, actually before I wrote this reply entitled "Booths?" Please reply there or here, as long as replying here does not disrupt this thread directly.

[shikinah]

I havnt got the ability to decipher through scriptures, but this scripture

And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist;

the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives.

as far as I am aware has not happened, blood, fire smoke and mist, sun turning to darkness? Isn't this talking about the lead up to Armageddon, the previous scriptures never mentioned healing or speaking in tongues, so it must have a symbolic and a later literal meaning.

[Juan23]

Interesting comment U&T. Chislev correspond to our November/December. So could it be that the "late rain" will pour soon?

[uglyandthin]

Dear Juan 23:

You may want to have your rain slicker ready, Haggai speaks of the outpouring of blessing from Jehovah that comes on the 24th of the ninth month when the foundation is laid. Which Chislev, I am not sure, but this year would be OK with me. That corresponds to December 15/16 I think.

It would give new meaning to "singing in the rain" wouldn't it?

uglyandthin

[FutureMan]

Dear Juan 23:

You may want to have your rain slicker ready, Haggai speaks of the outpouring of blessing from Jehovah that comes on the 24th of the ninth month when the foundation is laid. Which Chislev, I am not sure, but this year would be OK with me. That corresponds to December 15/16 I think.

It would give new meaning to "singing in the rain" wouldn't it?

uglyandthin

Does everybody here realize that we are now coming into the year of 2010 the second of Aurther C Clarkes space odyssey novels, most of you would know the first one to be 2001 space odyssey?

[arimatthewdavies]

im workin on it im workin on it the super x bomb is almost finished l.ol

[arimatthewdavies]

no seriously i do not know when the last days are,neither does anybody else! the generations that have come and gone have all pointed to the bad things takeing place in their time as proof that jesus was a comeing... me i have given up all togeather talking about the last days and the proof we are liveing in them! i have come to see if i just hush up and buckle down to everyday life the last days is when i die! no one has more than 70 or eighty years to wait before he or she sees their own last days and then everyone goes to either the positive place or the negetive place..
their is onley one thing that really buggs me and that is how come the devil and his demons are allowed to make themselves manifest.to people but good angels and jesus dont do so....
or do they? and people ignore the good because they are so busy looking to the bad for the sighns.

[FutureMan]

no seriously i do not know when the last days are,neither does anybody else! the generations that have come and gone have all pointed to the bad things takeing place in their time as proof that jesus was a comeing... me i have given up all togeather talking about the last days and the proof we are liveing in them! i have come to see if i just hush up and buckle down to everyday life the last days is when i die! no one has more than 70 or eighty years to wait before he or she sees their own last days and then everyone goes to either the positive place or the negetive place..
their is onley one thing that really buggs me and that is how come the devil and his demons are allowed to make themselves manifest.to people but good angels and jesus dont do so....
or do they? and people ignore the good because they are so busy looking to the bad for the sighns.

Hi Ari, I believe that some people have receive help and visitations from angels, it just that they don't know it, not at the time anyway.

It is usually after the fact and after they have thought about what happened that they realize that they might have received help or being in contact with an angel.

From what I have gleaned the angels can materialize as any normal human being and you would not know it.

[Gilligan]

Hi Ari, I believe that some people have receive help and visitations from angels, it just that they don't know it, not at the time anyway.

It is usually after the fact and after they have thought about what happened that they realize that they might have received help or being in contact with an angel.

From what I have gleaned the angels can materialize as any normal human being and you would not know it.



Yes FM,
We do get "Visits" from them.

And, sometimes for us, we do not get the message right away, well, speaking for myself anyway.
From my experience, it has been a 20% realization of angels to 80% that of the demon side of things.


That is more than true FM, as I'm sure you have experienced this as well,,,just wish there were more of them, but then again, if there were, what good is my showing faith to God when all I have are the good angels around me? Not that I'm ungrateful or anything but how can I prove my strength of faith to Him, during these times of trials and tribulations? Don't get me wrong, I love that feeling of Jehovah's protection over me, but sometimes when I'm going it alone, and feel the pressure of the world bearing down on me, I summon that POWER of faith that comes deep within, when I call upon IT,,,

Gills