The Soul

[Shibboleth]

I was reading Jesus direction to his disciples about preaching and came across this scripture (which I have read many times), but am still puzzled cause I may not have the full understanding of it.



Matthew 10

28 (http://) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen´na.[/b]

Now from my understanding and being taught that the soul is the living body, so if I die, my soul dies also. So what does this scripture mean? I thought it meant that be fearful of Jehovah cause He can kill the soul and body. But what does it mean to kill the body and not the soul? If we are taught the soul is the living essence that makes the body, how do we handle this scripture if someone brings it up to proove that the soul does not die after the body dies? Also there is a scripture (which I cannot pinpoint at the moment) that all souls belong to Jehovah and go back to Him at death. I kinda think that it means that our living essence goes back to Him, but since our body holds our brain and memories, the living essence is pretty much just our life force and we would not be able to see touch hear and likewise cause it is our physical bodies that makes that portion up.

So if the soul is our life force that runs our physical bodies when our bodies die would that life force die? According to the scripture in Matthew it doesn't.

Feel free to discuss and help me come to a sound conclusion.



Regards,

Shibboleth

[Kenneth]

"At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to 'fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.' By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person's life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the 'fiery Gehenna' have the same meaning as 'the lake of fire' of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death."

(The Reasoning Book p174)

kenneth

[Shibboleth]

"At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to 'fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.' By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person's life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the 'fiery Gehenna' have the same meaning as 'the lake of fire' of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death."

(The Reasoning Book p174)

kenneth[/b]


Correct.

But what I have some trouble with is, how do we tell this to people who bring this scripture up. Because the way it looks and reads, the soul doesn't die and the only one that can destroy it is Jehovah. So how do we explain that to someone who uses this scripture to say the soul doesn't die at death. Since, by my understanding and being taught, the soul is our life force and it dies at death. This scripture points to an understanding that it is only our body that dies at death. And this was straight from Jesus's mouth. (I don't have my reasoning book handy since I am at work)



Genesis 2
7 (http://) And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.[/b]

Here it shows that Jehovah formed the man's body, but yet he was not living untill Jehovah breathed a life force into him. So the life force combined with the body is the soul. Once the body dies the life force goes back to Jehovah. Now I know the life force is exactly that, it makes us live, but it has no memories and is not a spirit since it is our bodies that holds our minds and makes us move and live. Since a soul and a spirit are two different things.

So my understanding is this.

we shouldn't worry about those who kill our bodies, because our life force, our soul goes back to Jehovah and He is the only one that can extinguish that forever. It would make sense in a way that Jehovah would use this life force in the resurection process. All he would have to do is recreate a body with the mind and reinsert the life force to make it a living soul. At least that is my understanding. And since I am not dead yet and we are not in the new system we don't know fully how this process works. But Jehovah in His great wisdom has extreme logic in this matter.

I guess i shouldn't worry about it to much, I just want to know how to discuss this with someone who might use this scripture to show that the soul goes to heaven. Maybe I answered my own question haha.

i just wanted to see what other people thought about this.


regards,

Shibboleth

[Molly]

Hello Shibboleth-

I think the answer to your question is not about the technical definition of the soul but as written with regard to the Sadducees question about the seven brothers who each subsequently took the first brothers wife in order to produce offspring.

Starting at Mark 12: 24 "Jesus said to them: "Is not this why you are mistaken, your not knowing either the Scriptures or the power of God? For when they rise from the dead, neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in the heavens. But concerning the dead, that they are raised up, did you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, how God said to him, "I am the God of Isaac and God of Jacob"? He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living. You are much mistaken.'"

It's that they are as good as resurrected to Jehovah. The time for it just hasn't arrived yet. To me it seems like a case where he speaks of something as already having been accomplished though to us it is still in the future. To him, though, it's as good as done.

Just my thought. Hopefully it helps

Molly

[dgibson]

Dear, friends

In the place of "living", put "active", and in the place of "soul", put "file". Adam became an "active file".

Now, at the time of his, or anyone's death this active file, being filled with infomation, experience, and memories of life, is either filed in Jehovahs memory for recall, or is held for complete distruction in the second death. Jehovah is the main computer, file cabinet, or hard drive, and he will use his powers of resurrection to reactivate everyone who has lived.

Except maybe a few souls, that under any conditions he knows their heart would be unchangable, even with a perfect body, a sound mind, and all of the education available.

Hitler, or Sadam, for example, no one wants to think of them as being a person of resurrection, even myself, but the fact remains that Jehovah knows their hearts/minds, also ow much satan influenced them for his own purposes, and knows of their lives from a child at birth, how they were raised in a crooked power hungry world, and Jehovah will make the discission, whether they will, or will not be going to relive under the resurrection, in different conditions for a short thousand years or less, and be reeduacted as to who Jehovah, and Jesus plus the 144,000 are, so before satan is turned loose again, they can stand andbe tested like Adam & Eve, perfect and have the possibly of life without end.

At that time, it will be the peoples main responsbility to exercise their powers of forgiveness, just like Jehovah is being asked of today, daily, by everyone in our own prayers. We will be on the other side of the coin then, and will have to let things doen to us and others, of the past be forgotton. Some will excel at it, and some will be comsumed refusing to forgive and will suffer possibly a second and final death duringthe thousand years, thats when their life force, or active file will be pitched in the lake of fire, and be remembered no more by Jehovah, or anyone else.

It is out of our hands, who's file is going to be reactivated or lost forever, except in our own case. Jehovah watches and takes notes on us all the time, how we respond to different circumstances. He is the Judge of everyone's (heart) or (central core) condition.


That is the way I come to understand the future events as explained by the many qestions I have asked and have had answered.


Love
Dgibson

[Kenneth]

This should answer the question

Matthew 10

28 (http:///) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen´na.

Place the scripture in context with Ezekiel and you have the answer the soul can die


"Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Ezekiel 18:4

So the Soul can die.

kenneth

[Shibboleth]

Dear, friends

In the place of "living", put "active", and in the place of "soul", put "file". Adam became an "active file".

Now, at the time of his, or anyone's death this active file, being filled with infomation, experience, and memories of life, is either filed in Jehovahs memory for recall, or is held for complete distruction in the second death. Jehovah is the main computer, file cabinet, or hard drive, and he will use his powers of resurrection to reactivate everyone who has lived.[/b]

That is exactly how I view it.

The scripture intrigued me. And after going over the soul at the book study the scripture intrigued me even more.

thanks for the replies.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[Shibboleth]

This should answer the question

"Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Ezekiel 18:4

So the Soul can die.

kenneth[/b]

Exactly what Jesus brought out, but the underlying factor is who kills the soul? From Jesus it sounds like Jehovah is the only one that can. We shouldn't fear the death of the body, whether it is killed by a man or dies from old age or other circumstances. But the question I raise according to the scripture does the soul die at death or does it die if Jehovah deems us unfit for resurection? But to people out there that believe their soul goes to heaven, they may use this scripture as a way of saying it does. But we know that only spirits can live in heaven and not souls. since spirits and souls are different entities. So in actuality we live in Jehovah's memory after we die, it is actually the soul that lives in His memory if my understanding is correct.

regards,

Shibboleth

[Kenneth]

Jesus may not have been speaking in literal terms but just using it as an illustration that we can loss our everlasting lives. The body and the soul are one of the same, even though the life force is in the blood. It's only Jehovah who can grant life, so logically he is the only one who can take it away.

kenneth

[Molly]

Hi Shibboleth-

The difference between killing just "the body", and "killing the body and the soul" is a matter of hope. For those who have the body killed it is temporary - until the resurrection. For those who kill the body and the soul it is permanent - no resurrection.

There is at least one instance where we are told that that is the case - blaspheming against the spirit. Please note verse 25: "It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his lord. If people have called the householder Beelzebub, how much more [will they call] those of his household so?" Apparently that is what is alluded to here. The differentiation is simply to make a point.

Jehovah wants everyone to have everlasting life, but some will insist on perishing. There is no forgivenes for blaspheming against God's spirit - therefore no hope, no chance of a resurrection.

Molly

[Nambo]

The Soul isnt the "Life force" and its not what Jehovah breathed into Adams nostrils, that is Spirit, nepesh or something, the addition of the life force or spirit to the flesh, is what cause it to become a living soul.

The society say soul literally means life as a breather.

This cannot be its absolute meaning though as in the book of Leviticus, when Jehovah is giving the law, Jehovah himself says that they must obey this law so that "My Soul will not abbhor you", so there is Jehovah saying he has a soul, so it cannot just mean life as a breather, and it also cannot be the Devil beliving Soul of Christendom.

It must represent you yourself, not some floating thing that wonders off to live forever when your body dies.

dGibson gives a good illustration.
When your flesh dies and the nepesh that gave it life goes back to God, you are no more, but people such as your Children will remember the Soul you where, the individual you where.
Jehovah remembers also, to the extend that all your DNA and your memories "are down in writing", ready for him to create, from new materials and spirit, but the presice Soul that you where, the very same person.

He alone though, also has the ability and responsibility to decide he doesnt want to recreate that particular soul. and can then destroy that soul as easily as you can erase a programme on your hard drive, or rub out a message in a book.

So man can kill the current body, but only Jehovah can erase even the memory of the person.

Also dont forget.

Animals are-souls

(Best to pull faces and try and make the brother on the platform laugh when he has to say that.)