The Unveiling of the Christ.

[FutureMan]

Too often we hear people of many religions say, I am a Christian, but meanwhile when you look at there lives and how they treat other people, you wonder how these ones can even call themselves a "follower of Christ".
But why is it that some people think that they are Christian when it is obvious from their lifestyle and their lack of spirituality that they are not?

It is because they are blinded, or in fact veiled.
Christ has not been revealed to them.
They do not have the Christ in their hearts.
They are under the illusion that they are a Christian.

Here is what 2 Thessalonians says about these ones.

2 Thessalonians 1 [LITV]
7 For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.
8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4
9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved.
11 And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie,
12 that all may be judged, those not believing the truth, but who have delighted in unrighteousness.
13 But we ought to thank God always concerning you, brothers, beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth,
14 to which He called you through our gospel, to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So we see here one of the main reasons, why the Christ is veiled to these ones.
It is because of the "man of lawlessness" whom will be revealed in God's due time and will be revealed at the revelation of the Christ or the manifestation of his presence, his light.
Noticed that the apostle Paul said that the mystery of this lawlessness was already at work in his day.

But how was this so?

It was because certain men whom the apostle Paul called "super fine apostles", were starting to teach the congregation, doctrines of men so as for the congregation to start following them.
In doing so they inevitably were detracting from the head of the congregation, "Jesus Christ" and encouraging their members to start following them instead of the Christ.
In fact they were starting to veil the Christ in their own hearts as well as their followers.
This was very sad, because ultimately these ones would lose out on the privilege of being united with Jesus Christ in heaven as part of his bride class, When the apostle Paul was visiting Ephesus, he new that he would not see them again, and warned them that oppressive wolves would enter among them, teachers who were not Christ-like and had their own agenda.

Here is what the scriptures says.

(Acts 20:25 - 29) [LITV]
25 And now, behold, I know that you all will see my face no more, among whom I went about proclaiming the kingdom of God.
26 Because of this I testify to you on this day that I am pure from the blood of all.
27 For I did not keep back from declaring to you all the counsel of God.
28 Then take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit placed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased through His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and out of you yourselves will rise up men speaking perverted things, in order to draw away the disciples after themselves.

So the apostle Paul knew that things would not bode well for most of the Christian congregation in the future, that as a whole, the Christian congregation would not stay true to their prospective bridegroom, Jesus Christ.
But there was also something else that was veiling their hearts as to the Christ.
As the scriptures says in (2 Corinthians 3) [LITV]

12 Then having such hope, we use much boldness.
13 And not as "Moses, who put a veil over his face," for the sons of Israel not to gaze at the end of the thing being done away. Ex. 34:35
14 But their thoughts were hardened, for until the present time the same veil remains on the reading of the Old Covenant, not being unveiled, that it is being done away in Christ.
15 But until today, when Moses is being read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 But whenever it turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Ex. 34:34
17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.

Here we see how because they pay more attention to written law such as was the case and still is the case with the Jews today, they cannot see the Christ or get to know him, as this is a veil for them in their hearts.
But when they turn completely to the Christ and exercise faith in him, they receive the spirit of the truth, that resides in their hearts and from then on they are taught by this same spirit of Christ and his heavenly Father.
They have the spirit of the truth and freedom as followers of Christ and not enslaved to the rules or laws of religious leaders.
And as (2 Corinthians 3) goes on to say in verse 3, But also if our gospel is being hidden, it has been hidden in those being lost,
4 in whom the god of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the brightness of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.
5 For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves your slaves for the sake of Jesus.
6 Because it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Isa. 42:6, 7, 16

So here the apostle Paul is saying that Christians should be proclaiming Christ Jesus as Lord, rather than focusing on their own position in the Christian congregation, as he states that after all we are only "slaves" for the sake of "Jesus" who is the "light", that shines in their hearts as the "day star".

(2 Peter 1) [LITV]
19 and we have the more established prophetic Word, in which you do well to take heed, as to a lamp shining in a murky place, until day dawns and the light-bearing One rises in your hearts;

But unfortunately for most of Christendom, this was and is not the case as this scripture goes on to show.


(2 Peter 2)
1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, by whom the way of truth will be evil spoken of.

The scripture is no more obvious than it is today, as there are now many destructive sects of Christians who as the apostle Paul goes on to show is heading in the direction of destruction.
So how do we identify these destructive sects and and do we prevent ourselves from becoming veiled in our hearts towards the "Christ"?
First of all let us see what it is that would identify ones as a disciple or follower of Christ.

(John 13) [LITV]
34 I give a new commandment to you, that you should love one another; according as I loved you, you should also love one another.
35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love among one another.

So here Jesus stated that observers would know his followers by the love that they would have among themselves.
But this would not be the case, if they did not display this love among themselves.
So it was a condition word that Jesus used, "if", that would make the difference between them being followers of his and those that were not.
True Christians would be showing the fruit-ages of the spirit.

(Galatians 5) [LITV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control.

True Christians would be showing their faith by works.

(James 2) [LITV]
14 My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him?
15 But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food,
16 and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.
14 My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him?
15 But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food,
16 and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.

So this involves good works to their fellow Christians.

Now something else that would identify his followers was recorded in (John 17) as it states, 11 And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name; I guarded those whom You gave to Me, and not one of them was lost, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now I come to You, and I speak these things in the world, that they may have My joy being fulfilled in them.
14 I have given them Your Word, and the world hated them because they are not of the world, as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

So from this we can discern that any of Jesus followers would not be part of this world and it's wicked practices because of Satan's influence over the world.
Being no part of the world would also being not involved in the pagan like customs that are so prevalent through most of Christendom today.
They would be persecuted because of this.
Now another major identifying factor is the fact that they would not be involved in any warfare.
They would also be persecuted because of this.
As Jesus clearly showed here in this scripture just before his being taken into custody by the Jewish authorities.

(Matthew 26) [LITV]
51 And, behold, one of those with Jesus, stretching out the hand, drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear.
52 Then Jesus said to him, Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword shall perish by a sword.

Jesus also said that we are to love our enemies, not kill them as one would do in warfare.

(Luke 6) [LITV]
27 But I say to you, Those hearing: Love the ones hostile to you, do good to those hating you,
28 bless those cursing you and pray for those insulting you.
29 To those striking you on the cheek, turn the other also. And from those taking your garment, do not keep back the tunic also.
30 And to everyone asking you, give. And do not ask back from those taking your things.
31 And according as you desire that men should do to you, you also do the same to them.
32 And if you love those who love you, what thanks is there to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks is there to you? For even the sinners do the same.
34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what thanks is there to you? For the sinners lend to sinners so that they may receive the equal things.
35 But love the ones hostile to you, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be much; and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the unthankful and evil ones.
36 Therefore, be merciful, even as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and in no way be judged. Do not condemn, and in no way you will be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Now another one which is identifying one who is a follower of Christ would be those that would be testifying to the Christ, as this scripture shows.

(Acts 1) [LITV]
6 Then, indeed, coming together they questioned Him, saying, Lord, do You restore the kingdom to Israel at this time?
7 And He said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons which the Father placed in His own authority;
8 but you will receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you, and you will be witnesses of Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and to the end of the earth .

Here Jesus himself stated that his followers would be witnesses of him in all the earth.
As also he had commanded them to carry out a preaching work and to teach and make disciples, baptizing them, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
They would be persecuted because of this.

Another one is recorded in (Revelation 14) [LITV]
(Revelation 14) [LITV]
3 And they sing as a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred and forty four thousands, those having been redeemed from the earth.
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones following the Lamb wherever He may go. These were redeemed from among men as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.
5 And no guile was found in their mouth, for they are without blemish before the throne of God.

Now here it states that they (144,000) only follow the Christ, they recognize no other apart from his heavenly Father.
These ones follow the Christ, no matter where he goes, even to death if necessary, but they do not follow anyone else, any man or group of men.
These ones are picking up their torture stake or pole and are following him and will refuse to follow anyone else, no matter what pressure they are put under to do so.
These ones speak what is the truth, as no falsehood is found in their mouths.

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Now how do we discern who is not a follower of Christ?
Well they would be followers of men, rather than followers of Christ.
They would not show love.
Neither for Jehovah God or their fellow Christian in the faith, neither would they show love to their neighbor not in the faith.
They would not be showing the fruit-ages of the spirit.

(Galatians 5) [LITV]
19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these;

They would be involve in the world, even to some extent, if not completely involved.
They would be part of this world as they would be involved with politics, and Commercialism (apart from their daily needs) and unwholesome and pagan traditions of this world.
They would go to war and kill their enemy.
They would not be actually testifying about the Christ, as for salvation, rather they would be preaching doctrines of men and following tradition of men.
They would be promoting men or an organization as to salvation, and not promoting only salvation by means of Christ, and his sacrifice.
They would be proclaiming that unless you are part of their special group, you cannot receive salvation, by any means.
They would not actually be preaching the good news of the kingdom.
They would not be showing their faith, by works.
They would not care for all their members, who are in the faith.
They would not be ones who forgive their fellow man or even their enemy.

These are the ones who are veiled as to the Christ.

[noname]

Its almost if people believe things but deep down they don't really believe it. They don't live like it is true, even though inside themselves they still think they believe it.
Like the great tribulation, if you really meditate on what that means and the times we live in, it is a very serious desperate matter that is no joke. You can believe in it, but do you live your life in a manner that shows it? Or has it become just a fairy tale that you believe?
Do you zone out on football or entertainment instead of preparing yourself mentally, spiritually and physically for what lays ahead?

Thank you for your thought provoking post.

[shikinah]

Lately I have come to notice the importance of two types co-existing with one another and its very clear from the scriptures. This will become more evident in the last days within Christendom, within the Kingdom hall and out in the world.

1 John 3:10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

3:12 unlike Cain, who was of the evil one, and killed his brother.

John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is know truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Those who are children of God reflect the character of their Father, and likewise the children of the devil reflect theirs. Thats why it doesnt matter how many times you go to the kingdom hall, or how many times you go on the doors. If its not from the heart, if you do not love your fellow man without pay back, you are not Jehovahs son. Our hearts are the seat of motivation, doing whats right because it says its right isnt enough to be called a Christian, as the scriptures say "you will know them by their fruits". This is why Jesus said you will no my people by the LOVE they have for one another, this is why the whole law is based on LOVE, this is the ONLY sign that determines a true Christian.


Shikinah

[greymourning]

They would be involve in the world, even to some extent, if not completely involved.
They would be part of this world as they would be involved with politics, and Commercialism (apart from their daily needs) and unwholesome and pagan traditions of this world.
They would go to war and kill their enemy.
They would not be actually testifying about the Christ, as for salvation, rather they would be preaching doctrines of men and following tradition of men.
They would be promoting men or an organization as to salvation, and not promoting only salvation by means of Christ, and his sacrifice.
They would be proclaiming that unless you are part of their special group, you cannot receive salvation, by any means.
They would not actually be preaching the good news of the kingdom.
They would not be showing their faith, by works.
They would not care for all their members, who are in the faith.
They would not be ones who forgive their fellow man or even their enemy.

These are the ones who are veiled as to the Christ.

I really appreciated your thoughts, and particularly liked this sentence about forgiving our enemies. Its a lesson I have recently learned and one that was extremely difficult to grasp. It is certainly a sign that a person is following in Jesus footsteps if they are able to reflect this heart condition. I would read about Stephen's last words uttered in agony, 'Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.' and wonder how I could ever learn to think in this way. I have been persecuted relentlessly by another human for over a year and have run the gamut of emotions towards this person. I had even prayed that Jehovah could remove him from the earth because it seemed like the only way to prevent him from causing such severe harm. I have felt hatred for him and loathing, certainly not love. So I began a search of the scriptures with an honest plea to Jehovah to help me understand this heart condition motivated by love. And to some extent I have.It took breaking down all the walls I had built up against my persecutor, and an unwavering trust in Jehovah that if I left my self open to such hate and harm that he would protect me. So I stopped protecting myself, took a non judgmental stand before my fellow humans, even the ones intent on harming me and ask Jehovah constantly to open the minds of those that can be saved and to protect me from those who cannot. I no longer carry the burden of hate or fear or the heavy walls I built up for protection. I rely solely on Jehovah for protection and the miracle of hearts turning around sometimes when being made aware that the hope Jesus made possible is indeed a reality.

[truthseeker]

Too often we hear people of many religions say, I am a Christian, but meanwhile when you look at there lives and how they treat other people, you wonder how these ones can even call themselves a "follower of Christ".
But why is it that some people think that they are Christian when it is obvious from their lifestyle and their lack of spirituality that they are not?

It is because they are blinded, or in fact veiled.
Christ has not been revealed to them.
They do not have the Christ in their hearts.
They are under the illusion that they are a Christian.

Here is what 2 Thessalonians says about these ones.

2 Thessalonians 1 [LITV]
7 For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.
8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4
9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved.
11 And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie,
12 that all may be judged, those not believing the truth, but who have delighted in unrighteousness.
13 But we ought to thank God always concerning you, brothers, beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth,
14 to which He called you through our gospel, to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So we see here one of the main reasons, why the Christ is veiled to these ones.
It is because of the "man of lawlessness" whom will be revealed in God's due time and will be revealed at the revelation of the Christ or the manifestation of his presence, his light.
Noticed that the apostle Paul said that the mystery of this lawlessness was already at work in his day.

But how was this so?

It was because certain men whom the apostle Paul called "super fine apostles", were starting to teach the congregation, doctrines of men so as for the congregation to start following them.
In doing so they inevitably were detracting from the head of the congregation, "Jesus Christ" and encouraging their members to start following them instead of the Christ.
In fact they were starting to veil the Christ in their own hearts as well as their followers.
This was very sad, because ultimately these ones would lose out on the privilege of being united with Jesus Christ in heaven as part of his bride class, When the apostle Paul was visiting Ephesus, he new that he would not see them again, and warned them that oppressive wolves would enter among them, teachers who were not Christ-like and had their own agenda.

Here is what the scriptures says.

(Acts 20:25 - 29) [LITV]
25 And now, behold, I know that you all will see my face no more, among whom I went about proclaiming the kingdom of God.
26 Because of this I testify to you on this day that I am pure from the blood of all.
27 For I did not keep back from declaring to you all the counsel of God.
28 Then take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit placed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased through His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and out of you yourselves will rise up men speaking perverted things, in order to draw away the disciples after themselves.

So the apostle Paul knew that things would not bode well for most of the Christian congregation in the future, that as a whole, the Christian congregation would not stay true to their prospective bridegroom, Jesus Christ.
But there was also something else that was veiling their hearts as to the Christ.
As the scriptures says in (2 Corinthians 3) [LITV]

12 Then having such hope, we use much boldness.
13 And not as "Moses, who put a veil over his face," for the sons of Israel not to gaze at the end of the thing being done away. Ex. 34:35
14 But their thoughts were hardened, for until the present time the same veil remains on the reading of the Old Covenant, not being unveiled, that it is being done away in Christ.
15 But until today, when Moses is being read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 But whenever it turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Ex. 34:34
17 And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.

Here we see how because they pay more attention to written law such as was the case and still is the case with the Jews today, they cannot see the Christ or get to know him, as this is a veil for them in their hearts.
But when they turn completely to the Christ and exercise faith in him, they receive the spirit of the truth, that resides in their hearts and from then on they are taught by this same spirit of Christ and his heavenly Father.
They have the spirit of the truth and freedom as followers of Christ and not enslaved to the rules or laws of religious leaders.
And as (2 Corinthians 3) goes on to say in verse 3, But also if our gospel is being hidden, it has been hidden in those being lost,
4 in whom the god of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the brightness of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God, should not dawn on them.
5 For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves your slaves for the sake of Jesus.
6 Because it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Isa. 42:6, 7, 16

So here the apostle Paul is saying that Christians should be proclaiming Christ Jesus as Lord, rather than focusing on their own position in the Christian congregation, as he states that after all we are only "slaves" for the sake of "Jesus" who is the "light", that shines in their hearts as the "day star".

(2 Peter 1) [LITV]
19 and we have the more established prophetic Word, in which you do well to take heed, as to a lamp shining in a murky place, until day dawns and the light-bearing One rises in your hearts;

But unfortunately for most of Christendom, this was and is not the case as this scripture goes on to show.


(2 Peter 2)
1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, by whom the way of truth will be evil spoken of.

The scripture is no more obvious than it is today, as there are now many destructive sects of Christians who as the apostle Paul goes on to show is heading in the direction of destruction.
So how do we identify these destructive sects and and do we prevent ourselves from becoming veiled in our hearts towards the "Christ"?
First of all let us see what it is that would identify ones as a disciple or follower of Christ.

(John 13) [LITV]
34 I give a new commandment to you, that you should love one another; according as I loved you, you should also love one another.
35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love among one another.

So here Jesus stated that observers would know his followers by the love that they would have among themselves.
But this would not be the case, if they did not display this love among themselves.
So it was a condition word that Jesus used, "if", that would make the difference between them being followers of his and those that were not.
True Christians would be showing the fruit-ages of the spirit.

(Galatians 5) [LITV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control.

True Christians would be showing their faith by works.

(James 2) [LITV]
14 My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him?
15 But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food,
16 and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.
14 My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him?
15 But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food,
16 and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.

So this involves good works to their fellow Christians.

Now something else that would identify his followers was recorded in (John 17) as it states, 11 And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name; I guarded those whom You gave to Me, and not one of them was lost, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now I come to You, and I speak these things in the world, that they may have My joy being fulfilled in them.
14 I have given them Your Word, and the world hated them because they are not of the world, as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

So from this we can discern that any of Jesus followers would not be part of this world and it's wicked practices because of Satan's influence over the world.
Being no part of the world would also being not involved in the pagan like customs that are so prevalent through most of Christendom today.
They would be persecuted because of this.
Now another major identifying factor is the fact that they would not be involved in any warfare.
They would also be persecuted because of this.
As Jesus clearly showed here in this scripture just before his being taken into custody by the Jewish authorities.

(Matthew 26) [LITV]
51 And, behold, one of those with Jesus, stretching out the hand, drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear.
52 Then Jesus said to him, Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword shall perish by a sword.

Jesus also said that we are to love our enemies, not kill them as one would do in warfare.

(Luke 6) [LITV]
27 But I say to you, Those hearing: Love the ones hostile to you, do good to those hating you,
28 bless those cursing you and pray for those insulting you.
29 To those striking you on the cheek, turn the other also. And from those taking your garment, do not keep back the tunic also.
30 And to everyone asking you, give. And do not ask back from those taking your things.
31 And according as you desire that men should do to you, you also do the same to them.
32 And if you love those who love you, what thanks is there to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks is there to you? For even the sinners do the same.
34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what thanks is there to you? For the sinners lend to sinners so that they may receive the equal things.
35 But love the ones hostile to you, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be much; and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the unthankful and evil ones.
36 Therefore, be merciful, even as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and in no way be judged. Do not condemn, and in no way you will be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Now another one which is identifying one who is a follower of Christ would be those that would be testifying to the Christ, as this scripture shows.

(Acts 1) [LITV]
6 Then, indeed, coming together they questioned Him, saying, Lord, do You restore the kingdom to Israel at this time?
7 And He said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons which the Father placed in His own authority;
8 but you will receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you, and you will be witnesses of Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and to the end of the earth .

Here Jesus himself stated that his followers would be witnesses of him in all the earth.
As also he had commanded them to carry out a preaching work and to teach and make disciples, baptizing them, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
They would be persecuted because of this.

Another one is recorded in (Revelation 14) [LITV]
(Revelation 14) [LITV]
3 And they sing as a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred and forty four thousands, those having been redeemed from the earth.
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones following the Lamb wherever He may go. These were redeemed from among men as a firstfruit to God and to the Lamb.
5 And no guile was found in their mouth, for they are without blemish before the throne of God.

Now here it states that they (144,000) only follow the Christ, they recognize no other apart from his heavenly Father.
These ones follow the Christ, no matter where he goes, even to death if necessary, but they do not follow anyone else, any man or group of men.
These ones are picking up their torture stake or pole and are following him and will refuse to follow anyone else, no matter what pressure they are put under to do so.
These ones speak what is the truth, as no falsehood is found in their mouths.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now how do we discern who is not a follower of Christ?
Well they would be followers of men, rather than followers of Christ.
They would not show love.
Neither for Jehovah God or their fellow Christian in the faith, neither would they show love to their neighbor not in the faith.
They would not be showing the fruit-ages of the spirit.

(Galatians 5) [LITV]
19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these;

They would be involve in the world, even to some extent, if not completely involved.
They would be part of this world as they would be involved with politics, and Commercialism (apart from their daily needs) and unwholesome and pagan traditions of this world.
They would go to war and kill their enemy.
They would not be actually testifying about the Christ, as for salvation, rather they would be preaching doctrines of men and following tradition of men.
They would be promoting men or an organization as to salvation, and not promoting only salvation by means of Christ, and his sacrifice.
They would be proclaiming that unless you are part of their special group, you cannot receive salvation, by any means.
They would not actually be preaching the good news of the kingdom.
They would not be showing their faith, by works.
They would not care for all their members, who are in the faith.
They would not be ones who forgive their fellow man or even their enemy.

These are the ones who are veiled as to the Christ.





Thank you FM
You put a real effort forth preparing your scriptural reasoning’s, I applaud you.
So a diligent bible student can determine false Christians from true Christians agreed.
Now how do I find true Christians, surfing the web on Utube or going to the kingdom hall or parking on a street corner and asking passerby’s a series of questions to determine there true Christian validity.
And once we find true Christians what then do we keep in touch by email, rent a hall and organize preaching at the markets or collaborate a book and brochures for the public to read.
It is very clear scripturally that first century Christians met in homes or buildings, greeted each other with a holy kiss, there was human contact an exchange of encouragement.

For many of the members of this board there is none of this, some still attend meetings and likely engage in field service but some on the board cant do this or wont because there stumbled or disfelowshiped.

I guess I will just continue to muddle thru and wait on Jehovah and his Christ to start there judgment day, I wish it would hurry up and happen the waiting is madning!

truthseeker

[greymourning]

Thank you FM
You put a real effort forth preparing your scriptural reasoning’s, I applaud you.
So a diligent bible student can determine false Christians from true Christians agreed.
Now how do I find true Christians, surfing the web on Utube or going to the kingdom hall or parking on a street corner and asking passerby’s a series of questions to determine there true Christian validity.
And once we find true Christians what then do we keep in touch by email, rent a hall and organize preaching at the markets or collaborate a book and brochures for the public to read.
It is very clear scripturally that first century Christians met in homes or buildings, greeted each other with a holy kiss, there was human contact an exchange of encouragement.

For many of the members of this board there is none of this, some still attend meetings and likely engage in field service but some on the board cant do this or wont because there stumbled or disfelowshiped.

I guess I will just continue to muddle thru and wait on Jehovah and his Christ to start there judgment day, I wish it would hurry up and happen the waiting is madning!

truthseeker

Following the spirit is a delicate thing, it leads you where you are needed. Following Christ does not necessarily mean removing yourself from all organized religion, holing yourself up in your home and only communicating to others by online forums. Jehovah's ways are higher then man's, and his ways of working things are just like his creation, organic and sometimes, meandering it seems to us, however the end result is always magnificent. Instead of taking harsh actions on our own it is always better to ask in prayer where we are needed and what it is we should do and then work hard to pay attention to the leading of the spirit. Instead of waiting, ask Jehovah to use you. "Here I am! Send me!"

[truthseeker]

Following the spirit is a delicate thing, it leads you where you are needed. Following Christ does not necessarily mean removing yourself from all organized religion, holing yourself up in your home and only communicating to others by online forums. Jehovah's ways are higher then man's, and his ways of working things are just like his creation, organic and sometimes, meandering it seems to us, however the end result is always magnificent. Instead of taking harsh actions on our own it is always better to ask in prayer where we are needed and what it is we should do and then work hard to pay attention to the leading of the spirit. Instead of waiting, ask Jehovah to use you. "Here I am! Send me!"

Bless you greymorning!!
Christian Love truthseeker

[Gilligan]

Following the spirit is a delicate thing, it leads you where you are needed. Following Christ does not necessarily mean removing yourself from all organized religion, holing yourself up in your home and only communicating to others by online forums. Jehovah's ways are higher then man's, and his ways of working things are just like his creation, organic and sometimes, meandering it seems to us, however the end result is always magnificent. Instead of taking harsh actions on our own it is always better to ask in prayer where we are needed and what it is we should do and then work hard to pay attention to the leading of the spirit. Instead of waiting, ask Jehovah to use you. "Here I am! Send me!"

It seems that this is the only way we can get things done, being "leaded where you are needed", in these critical times Dear GM. How many of us has prayed saying, "Here I am, send me!"?
Don't we sometimes have that overwhelming feeling of being filled with the power of God, glowing with sun-like radiance while walking down the streets and have crowds of people follow you, believe in you & in God especially, like some modern-day Moses?
Let's have a show of hands!


Also GM says:
"I no longer carry the burden of hate or fear or the heavy walls I built up for protection. I rely solely on Jehovah for protection and the miracle of hearts turning around sometimes when being made aware that the hope Jesus made possible is indeed a reality."

That is a sweet sign of meekness and humbleness and faith on your part Dear GM.
It must be nice to finally take off that yoke, (and that's no joke).:p
To hate out of contempt for someone is insane, it'll kill your God-given spirit for sure.
Good to hear from you, you are a breath of fresh air,,,

Gills

[shikinah]

I no longer carry the burden of hate or fear or the heavy walls I built up for protection. I rely solely on Jehovah for protection and the miracle of hearts turning around sometimes when being made aware that the hope Jesus made possible is indeed a reality."

Hello GM, forgive me if my question seems some what strange,
but im trying to understand at what point you became anointed? As the scriptures say that these individuals would have been tried and tested in all things, so as to be able to Judge when reigning with christ. Was this after you carried this burden of hate?

[panda]

futureman, wonderful post and very encouraging, I agree especially where rules and regualtions take the place of love, and those giving the rules want followers for themselves, replacing Christ.

The veil is their because they are blinded by the laws of man, and because they follow these men they are blind and Christ cannot unveil them unless they turn to him. So they become slaves of man and think this is what will bring them salvation.

[FutureMan]

Following the spirit is a delicate thing, it leads you where you are needed. Following Christ does not necessarily mean removing yourself from all organized religion, holing yourself up in your home and only communicating to others by online forums. Jehovah's ways are higher then man's, and his ways of working things are just like his creation, organic and sometimes, meandering it seems to us, however the end result is always magnificent. Instead of taking harsh actions on our own it is always better to ask in prayer where we are needed and what it is we should do and then work hard to pay attention to the leading of the spirit. Instead of waiting, ask Jehovah to use you. "Here I am! Send me!"

Hello greymourning, I agree with you.
In hind sight, I would have done things a bit differently perhaps, and after more diligent prayer.

But what is done is done now and I can not go back, so there is only one direction for me to go now, and that is forward.

I guess I am one of those who are holed up in my home, and my only association with other Christians is on the internet on this forum and emails.

Occasionally I see my brothers and sisters when I go shopping and so on and sometimes I get a quick hello and other times I'm completely ignored.

My brothers and sisters including my own father and mother, do not think that I'm interested in the spiritual "truth" which of course is only contained in the Bible.

Yet every time I had contacted them (my mother and father), that is all I want to talk about, God's Word and the "truth", but they do not want to hear anything from their errant son or anyone else such as watchman, only what the "organization" has to say.

Sometimes I really do feel that I have picked up the torture stake, and sometimes it feels to me to be getting real heavy.

My wife at times is a source of encouragement to me, and this forum, but ultimately I found that the only real source of encouragement is from God's word, and heartfelt prayer

[mrgalleria]

"sometimes it feels to me to be getting real heavy"

Alo ha,
Yes, fleeing to the mountains is not a pleasant thing.
But you could not have made a better decision.
Bill

[shikinah]

Hello greymourning, I agree with you.
In hind sight, I would have done things a bit differently perhaps, and after more diligent prayer.

But what is done is done now and I can not go back, so there is only one direction for me to go now, and that is forward.

I guess I am one of those who are holed up in my home, and my only association with other Christians is on the internet on this forum and emails.

Occasionally I see my brothers and sisters when I go shopping and so on and sometimes I get a quick hello and other times I'm completely ignored.

My brothers and sisters including my own father and mother, do not think that I'm interested in the spiritual "truth" which of course is only contained in the Bible.

Yet every time I had contacted them (my mother and father), that is all I want to talk about, God's Word and the "truth", but they do not want to hear anything from their errant son or anyone else such as watchman, only what the "organization" has to say.

Sometimes I really do feel that I have picked up the torture stake, and sometimes it feels to me to be getting real heavy.

My wife at times is a source of encouragement to me, and this forum, but ultimately I found that the only real source of encouragement is from God's word, and heartfelt prayer


Sometimes we have to do what we have to do for our spiritual sanity, I dont think any one who decides to leave the org takes it lightly, Or those who have been disfellowshiped wth the choice to return.
Once that veils been lifted and what was hidden has been revealed, this then becomes added to the torture stake you were already carrying. I feel what ever decision makes you a better Christian, its better than staying and becoming a mentally depressed one where you end up good to know one. I saw a friend of mine hang herself, and the brother and sisters looked down on her as suicide is a sin, but either way she could never win. Jehovah knows our hearts and our intentions and only by relying on him in prayer, will we know in our hearts whats right for our present condition.

Shikinah

[shikinah]

Sometimes we forget why we ended up on this forum in the first place, these articles I found, really shocked me, as I had never seen them before,
http://www.randytv.com/secret/11221998g1.jpg Awake November 22 1998

http://www.randytv.com/secret/11221998g2.jpg Awake November 22 1998

The Watchtower 2001 11/15
We laud Jehovah as the Universal Sovereign, 'dwell' in him as our Source of security, and declare the good news of his Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14) Therefore, 'no calamity will befall us'....Anointed Christians are like alien residents living in tents apart from this system of things.(1 Peter2:11) Whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we are not infected by such spiritually deadly plagues as its immorality, materialism, false religion and worship of 'the wild beast', the United Nations.-Revelation 9:20,21; 13:1-18.....Angels have been given power to protect us. They guard us 'in all our ways.' We enjoy angelic guardianship as Kingdom proclaimers and do not stumble spiritually.

I guess I missed these articles because I left the truth at that time, But TWO pages dedicated to the UN?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Futureman your in safe hands:)

Sisterly Love
Shikinah

[greymourning]

I no longer carry the burden of hate or fear or the heavy walls I built up for protection. I rely solely on Jehovah for protection and the miracle of hearts turning around sometimes when being made aware that the hope Jesus made possible is indeed a reality."

Hello GM, forgive me if my question seems some what strange,
but im trying to understand at what point you became anointed? As the scriptures say that these individuals would have been tried and tested in all things, so as to be able to Judge when reigning with christ. Was this after you carried this burden of hate?

Christ gave himself as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, so that though we are unrighteous men we may be continuously declared righteous, as his sacrifice will continue to cover our sins as we are still imperfect. The apostles were not changed into perfected men when they were anointed by the holy spirit but came into the new covenant and began to be covered by Jesus sacrifice. That is how they can be called righteous even as imperfect men.
Hebrews 9:13,14 For if the blood of goats and of bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who have been defiled sanctified to the extent of cleanness of the flesh. how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to the living God?

James 1:2-5 "Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith works out endurance. But let endurance have its work complete, that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything."

Through severe trials and tests, are allowed so that we may gain endurance, refine our thinking so that we can become sound in mind.

1 peter 3:18 "Why even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. verse21 That which corresponds to this is also now saving you, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[greymourning]

Futureman and Shikinah, whether inside or outside of the organization, you are still very valuable. You remind me of Matthew 9:36 "On seeing the crowd he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd." The footnote says skinned could also mean harassed and annoyed. You are certainly suffering a difficult trial and the more than likely unwarranted harsh treatment that was dealt to you will not be forgotten or let to continue much longer. But please do not become bitter, but be joyous that you are suffering for your faith, because that brings rich rewards.

[Gilligan]

If I may, there is this 1980's MTV video that stuck with me all these years (decades really), a kind of prophetic vision of a native virgin being prepared to be sacrificed to their false god.
That music score, that tribal rhythm, especially the lyrics brought to me a sense of a scenario in which many of us here can relate to.

But this one definitely has to go to Greymourning, a chosen one, I like her(?) revealing.

Anyway, this is a great video of an innocent one being an outcast, and refusing to be led into a death/sacrifice over her people's religion.
I didn't post the link, so you'll have to look it up yourself,,,

Iam Siam - Talk To Me (I Can Hear You Now)

[shikinah]

Futureman and Shikinah, whether inside or outside of the organization, you are still very valuable. You remind me of Matthew 9:36 "On seeing the crowd he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd." The footnote says skinned could also mean harassed and annoyed. You are certainly suffering a difficult trial and the more than likely unwarranted harsh treatment that was dealt to you will not be forgotten or let to continue much longer. But please do not become bitter, but be joyous that you are suffering for your faith, because that brings rich rewards.

Thank you so much Grey mourning for those lovely scriptures in the previous post you sent me, unlike the organisation you explain christs ransom correctly and not make it feel were beyond being worthy of it. They have a way of making you feel you can never really quite make Jehovah happy, that near perfection is required which seems a life time away. Yes its the trials which I have suffered which has helped me see the light and No matter what I suffer I know its for a reason so bitterness would only hinder any dicipline Jehovah allowed. I have to look at it the way you would look at a soldier in training, without it he wouldnt survive the battlefield.

Sisterly Love
Shikinah x

[FutureMan]

Futureman and Shikinah, whether inside or outside of the organization, you are still very valuable. You remind me of Matthew 9:36 "On seeing the crowd he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd." The footnote says skinned could also mean harassed and annoyed. You are certainly suffering a difficult trial and the more than likely unwarranted harsh treatment that was dealt to you will not be forgotten or let to continue much longer. But please do not become bitter, but be joyous that you are suffering for your faith, because that brings rich rewards.

Thank you greymourning, for that comment as I need every encouragement that I can get at the moment and I do try hard not to be bitter towards the organization, but I find it hard sometimes when I'm feeling real low.

[greymourning]

Thank you greymourning, for that comment as I need every encouragement that I can get at the moment and I do try hard not to be bitter towards the organization, but I find it hard sometimes when I'm feeling real low.

Don't worry about the organization thinks, worry about what you think of yourself and how you feel when you talk to Jehovah. If you are sure of yourself and have Jehovahs approval, not one single person in the organization, or anywhere else can take that away from you. Draw strength from Jehovah, he never runs out of it. Hold your head up and smile, stand up straight, as the scripture says, for you have nothing to be ashamed of. Grab hold of Jehovahs hand and step firmly along, theres no need to falter, he's there.