The Beginning Of The Bible Students

[Elihu]

Hi everyone,

viewing watchmans new video about the early days of the bible students, it made me wonder, at what point and by who did the 1914 doctrine be suggested as a foundation teaching.
i ask this because it suggests to me that this is the point where the MOL must have crept in to Jehovahs potential Sons and misguided them.

any theories,

[stayawake]

OK Elihu
Heres my theory. (I dont have it right in frount of me so this is not word for word )
Again in IMHO Looking at 2Thess2:1-3

Who was it it, that walked into the dining room in Oct 1914 and said to the brotheres ,to day is the day, and they all expected to be taken up to join Christ in his second presence.( I guess what is known as the Rapture)
They waited, & waited and nothing happened, so they figured because what they thought didnt take place then , that date still MUST have another very important meaning . By changing the absolute year of the distruction of Babylon they were able to come up with the BIRTH OF THE KINGDOM ,and fit it into prophecy.
This of course replaced their main thoughts of the RAPTURE right before Armegedden was to start.
Also saved a lot of imbarresment.
From what I understand it was PUBLIC knowledge that they had looked forward to that date to be caught away with Christ.

I feel this was the start of that LIE in the Temple of God .
IMHO I feel it was the GB who sat themself down in the Temple of GOD and made them self a god.

I only speak for myself
love stayawake

[Elihu]

thanks for that Stayawake, very interesting , so if i read you correctly then the MOL seized the opportunity of a misapplied rapture to impose the 1914 arrival of Christ, and therefore set the scene for a long term phony parousia?

the question that now interests me is the continuity of the work of the MOL.
the batton of deception, so to speak, must be passed through time using an organised group.

this reinforces the idea that the MOL is a deliberate infiltration of Gods field by satan.

Just as Christ explained in his parable of the wheat and the weeds
The fine seed are the sons of the kingdom and the weeds are the sons of the wicked one


would really like a lot of input into this topic as it seems to me that the time is approaching when we will see the MOL unmasked.

elihu

[stayawake]

Yes elihu,
IMHO that is the way I read it.
Reading 2Thess2:1-3 is where I am getting this , so it is a MUST that those scriptures be read.
I cannot place that time at a better TIME>1914
But we know it was allowed to take place by Jehovah, if you read on.
The reason for it being allowed is also there if one reads on.

Another reason IMHO i say this as both the WHEAT & WEEDS in almost 100 years have had time to reach maturity.
WE are looking at a havest by the reapers (angels ) soon.
Yes, then the TRue sons of God will be revealed.

Jehovah is dealing with the sons of the Kingdom,( even those who claim to be ) These living stones make up the Temple of GOD. ( heavenly calling )
Again I only speak for myself
love stayawake

[Elihu]

thanks Stayawake.
i know we will have to wait and see who the MOL actually is until Christ arrives, but it seems clear to me that he is no incidental mutation due to misunderstanding of scripture, he is the result of a deliberate act.

personally i think Charles Russell by the very fact that he was the recognised founder of the bible students was a genuine person trying to re-establish bible truths, however among his early associates there was a residing a MOL who was placed by Satan into the intimate group. with the purpose of misguiding that group.

what strikes me reading about those early days is the character of JF Rutherford,
he was the leader of those locked up on false charges,and then identified thast time period as an application of rev 11 which watchman has shown to be utter nonsense.
He was also the one who predicted the return of the prophets and commanded that a home be built for them.
when the prophets failed to show he moved into the house!

IMO, and as you say yourself i also speak for myself, he is the initial MOL within the WT who through time has been joined by associates "the sons of the wicked one" to contaminate the truth and mislead the sons of the Kingdom.

Notably however is pauls words in thessalonians 2 where he says " true the MYSTERY of this lawlessness is already at work....." showing that satan was starting to infiltrate the field of the kingdom with his sons back in Pauls time.
Satan has continued throughout time by identifying any potential group searching for the truth, and planting his sons among them, hence we see ourselves surrounded by a world of false religion based on false doctrines and beliefs.

just my opinion as if it counts for anything

love elihu

[stayawake]

Hi elihu
exactly the way I see it.
In Pauls time it already was at work, cause the seeds were planted together. Satan got in there real quick.
I also agree Jah used Pastor Russell in all due respect
,#1 because he loved using the Bible
#2 because he had the finances to start a Publishing Company
#3 it was time for Jah to start regathering His Kindom sons out of false religion.
You take notice that all ALL the MEN that represented Jehovah thru the years even the Kings who sat on His earthly Throne, ,all came under satans attack, but not before Gods will was accomplished

I am sure Jah will not forget the GOOD they did
Russell and Rutherford were not friends. In fact from what I found was Russell had asked Rutherford to leave Bethel.
Which he did.He went and stayed in that masion, he had built for the Faithful men of old.
( that alone showed the man wasnt thinking straight . IMO
I personally was very dissipointed in Mc Milliun,on the death of Russell to call Rutherford to tell him "the old man has died ".
I say dissipointed because McMilliun wrote the book "Faith on the March " <which I enjoyed very much

Rutherford immediately came into the picture with his men, positioned his men,
removed Russells directors, and High Jacked the WT Publishing co.

Russell before his death had started another book, Rutherford hurried up and finished it, put in his own footnotes and got it in print and threw it out to the friends as Russells book.
Don&#39;t know the name of that book ,sortta wished I did.
Not only that but Rutherford was known publicly to be a alcoholic.
I can see why the BIG split back then.
Remember that break off were all Sons of GOD
The sad thing is they never moved further then Russells teachings.
never the less the BS are annointed.
Reminds me of the Samaritans that never went further then the writtings of Moses
IMHO I feel there will be changes in that Slave also.

WAtchman has a real good podcast, on how Jah used the Nation of Isreal to produce the seed of Gods woman, and then later HE used the WT org, to gather up the secondary seed. OR the WHEAT,HIS ADOPTED SONS< THE KINGDOM HEIRS< THE REMAINING ONES.etc Will try and find the name of that podcast, as it is EXCELLENT

Once one gets into all the Parables and realize that they apply just to these ones, which are Gods household, with the WEEDs being among them then the picture is clear.
Must thank watchman for that.

WE the other sheep have the grand privelidge of being witnesses to the working out of Gods purpose.
Unless one is open minded ,one will never see it.
Again I only speak for myself
love stayawake

[Elihu]

thanks you Stayawake
i felt i needed to sound out my thoughts against others about this subject as i come to terms with the reality of what is happening to the Gods people.
i have found your posts to be informative, logical and scriptural.


many thanks
elihu

[Dorcas]

Hi elihu
exactly the way I see it.
In Pauls time it already was at work, cause the seeds were planted together. Satan got in there real quick.
I also agree Jah used Pastor Russell in all due respect
,#1 because he loved using the Bible
#2 because he had the finances to start a Publishing Company
#3 it was time for Jah to start regathering His Kindom sons out of false religion.
You take notice that all ALL the MEN that represented Jehovah thru the years even the Kings who sat on His earthly Throne, ,all came under satans attack, but not before Gods will was accomplished

I am sure Jah will not forget the GOOD they did
Russell and Rutherford were not friends. In fact from what I found was Russell had asked Rutherford to leave Bethel.
Which he did.He went and stayed in that masion, he had built for the Faithful men of old.
( that alone showed the man wasnt thinking straight . IMO
I personally was very dissipointed in Mc Milliun,on the death of Russell to call Rutherford to tell him "the old man has died ".
I say dissipointed because McMilliun wrote the book "Faith on the March " <which I enjoyed very much

Rutherford immediately came into the picture with his men, positioned his men,
removed Russells directors, and High Jacked the WT Publishing co.

Russell before his death had started another book, Rutherford hurried up and finished it, put in his own footnotes and got it in print and threw it out to the friends as Russells book.
Don&#39;t know the name of that book ,sortta wished I did.
Not only that but Rutherford was known publicly to be a alcoholic.
I can see why the BIG split back then.
Remember that break off were all Sons of GOD
The sad thing is they never moved further then Russells teachings.
never the less the BS are annointed.
Reminds me of the Samaritans that never went further then the writtings of Moses
IMHO I feel there will be changes in that Slave also.

WAtchman has a real good podcast, on how Jah used the Nation of Isreal to produce the seed of Gods woman, and then later HE used the WT org, to gather up the secondary seed. OR the WHEAT,HIS ADOPTED SONS< THE KINGDOM HEIRS< THE REMAINING ONES.etc Will try and find the name of that podcast, as it is EXCELLENT

Once one gets into all the Parables and realize that they apply just to these ones, which are Gods household, with the WEEDs being among them then the picture is clear.
Must thank watchman for that.

WE the other sheep have the grand privelidge of being witnesses to the working out of Gods purpose.
Unless one is open minded ,one will never see it.
Again I only speak for myself
love stayawake[/b] Dear Stayawake,
I was just dropping you a note to thank you for the above information. A dear brother verified what you just said--that the weeds were the evil slave, and that was years ago. I think many people realize that the WTS doesn&#39;t have everything right. They are just so afraid of the Brothers at the KHall, they keep quiet. I have had friends sit in my livingroom and cry because they have had doubts for a long time, but they are afraid to do anything about what they suspect...
Thanks to Jehovah and friends like you -- we can keep well-fed and find support. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gif
Love you dearly, Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[DoubtingThomas]

[i]But as e-watchman points out, these are all still future events even though the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work. It is not likely this MOL was manifested in Brother Rutherford (although he certainly had his faults including alcoholism). But this is not the lawlessness the scriptures are referring to.

[eyes&ears]

HI DT,

Thank you for posting that reminder up. I know we all have read this maybe even more than once, but it sure is good to re-read it again.

I also enjoyed all the comments, they have really helped me a great deal.



Sisterly Love,

E & E