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shikinah
03-05-2010, 09:08 PM
I found these notes very interesting written back in 2008




WHAT THE NEAR FUTURE HOLDS



January 27, 2008 (Hawaii zone visit) - Gerrit Losch

Although we cannot know our individual future, we do know mankind's immediate future (2 Peter 3:17'You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advanced knowledge.'). God keeps us informed and He cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
What will occur in the near future?
· There will be an international statement or situation where people will cry out 'Peace and Security' (1/15/03 Watchtower). This has not yet occurred. We don't know if it will be a desire for peace or a belief that peace has been achieved.
· Matthew 24:14 has been fulfilled (every day 3,000,000 hours are spent in the ministry).

· The Great Tribulation has 3 stages: 1) Destruction of Babylon the Great, 2) Period of time in between Babylon's destruction and Armageddon, and 3) Armageddon.
· 1) Disgusting thing standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20)
o This occurred in 66 CE under Cestius Gallus when Jerusalem's wall was almost undermined. The Roman armies were disgusting because of their idolatrous ensigns. In 70 CE General Titus came to destroy the city.
o Unfaithful Jerusalem pictures unfaithful Christendom. Political nations within the UN will devastate Christendom, but it has not yet begun taking its threatening position against false religion (5/1/99 Watchtower, page 16).
§ Terrorists, such as Al-Qaeda, are targeting political nations, not religious organizations.
o Governments will confiscate all religious bank accounts and property. They will probably imprison clergymen and possibly kill them.
o Unless those days were cut short (Matthew 24:22), no flesh will be saved. This referred to the days in 66 CE (not 70 CE). Therefore, the modern application is at the beginning of the Great Tribulation - the destruction of Babylon the Great (not Armageddon). Unless those days were shortened, no flesh (true Christians) would be saved.

· 2) Between 66-70 CE the Jews were divided into factions within Jerusalem. Food ran out and people were prohibited from leaving the city. This occurred 'immediately after the tribulation of those days' (Matthew 24:29), referring to the destruction of Babylon the Great.
o The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven. The 2/15/94 Watchtower, page 20, indicates that this will likely be frightening phenomena in the sky more impressive than what was observed in Jerusalem.
o Josephus recorded that a comet appeared in Jerusalem in the first century and remained for 1 year (very unusual).
o Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21: 25, 26 indicates that men will beat themselves in lamentation and become faint out of fear. This happens during the Great Tribulation. Don't apply Luke 21:26 about men being 'faint out of fear' to today.
o Luke 21:25 mentions 'the anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation'. Brother Losch said this could also have a literal fulfillment (e.g. tsunamis).
o Luke 21: 27 describes mankind as seeing 'the Son of man coming in a cloud'. This sign is in heaven (not on the earth). Therefore it is not the sign of Jesus' presence, which has many facets here on earth today. Rather, everyone will recognize that what they are seeing is supernatural.
o Matthew 24:34 'this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur'. The anointed Christians still living will see the fulfillment of all the things foretold regarding the Great Tribulation, including Jesus' execution. However we do not know if they will survive Armageddon and enter the New World.
o There will be a final attack on God's people by the King of the North before Armageddon. We still cannot identify the King of the North and should not speculate (Daniel book page 281). We may not know until the attack on true Christians actually begins. This attack will probably parallel Gog's attack described at Ezekiel 38.

· 3) At Armageddon, everyone will recognize that it is divine judgment (Revelation 1:7 'every eye will see him').
o Zechariah 14:12 'There will be a rotting away of one's flesh, while one is standing upon one's feet; and one's very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one's very tongue will rot away in one's mouth'. Jehovah may use radiation to destroy the wicked. (Yes, Brother Losch actually said 'radiation').
o The final separation of the sheep and goats will take place at this time.
We must be prepared. At an hour that we do not think it to be, the Son of man is coming (Matthew 24:44).
· Matthew 24:17 'Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house'. How could he flee without coming down from the roof? He would take the outside stairs or ladder, not bothering to go down through the house.
o We must be willing to leave everything behind! The first century Christians had to run - it meant the loss of absolutely everything. But their flesh or lives were saved.
o We will lose our homes, businesses, etc. We may be tested by how we view material things.
o The Christians in the first century fled to the mountains. Jehovah's mountain-like organization will offer protection (God's Kingdom could also be the mountain that we flee to).
Some doubt the nearness of the end because there are still so many to reach:
· There are 1.3 billion people in China (although we are preaching there)
· 1.0 billion in India where 80% have never been witnessed to
· 1.0 billion Muslims (although we are legal in the largest Muslim country, Indonesia, which has a population of 50 million more people than Russia)
But Jesus said that we would by no means complete the circuit of cities (Matthew 10:23). He said this after explaining what they should do when people persecute them. We don't know if Jehovah will open up other territories. He could do so in a way we never imagined. Regardless, we know that each life is precious to Him and we should work hard to preach to everyone.
The end is near. Revelation 17:11 described the UN as the eighth and final king. It has already lasted 3 times longer than it did before going into the abyss (as the League of Nations).

After Armageddon there will be a lot of work to do. Anyone who thinks the Thousand Years will be a long vacation is mistaken. We will have to cleanse the earth (Bible describes people traveling the earth to bury the dead) and prepare for the resurrection. New estimate is a resurrection of 30 billion people. Can you imagine 30 billion people reappearing on one day? No, it's not reasonable. We can assume that there will be a gradual resurrection (Insight book estimates 200-300 years), one generation at a time. This will make it possible to communicate with the previous generation. We will need to provide food and lodging for the newly resurrected ones. There may be special houses where the resurrections occur (those who died at sea won't be swimming to shore). We don't know if the dead will return with clothing or not, but we do know that they will be completely restored physically (no missing limbs, etc.). We can look forward to growing back hair, teeth, etc. Some animals already manifest such abilities (giant squid can grow back new arms and Amazonian fish grow new teeth over and over).

Do we really believe the end is near? Our decisions show what we truly believe. Don't seek great things for yourself (Jeremiah 45: 4, 5). This system is passing away. Rather seek first the kingdom. Jehovah has promised to preserve our souls as spoil and has offered us the opportunity to live as long as He does. What a privilege!

(There were 7,204 that attended this special talk at a rented convention center in Honolulu and 3,262 that were tied in at 21 other locations on the Hawaiian islands.

Is this account accurate? I thought it was a future event:rolleyes:

"1) Disgusting thing standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20)
o This occurred in 66 CE under Cestius Gallus when Jerusalem's wall was almost undermined. The Roman armies were disgusting because of their idolatrous ensigns. In 70 CE General Titus came to destroy the city."




Shikinah

FutureMan
03-06-2010, 02:03 AM
I found these notes very interesting written back in 2008




WHAT THE NEAR FUTURE HOLDS



January 27, 2008 (Hawaii zone visit) - Gerrit Losch


Although we cannot know our individual future, we do know mankind's immediate future (2 Peter 3:17'You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advanced knowledge.'). God keeps us informed and He cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
What will occur in the near future?
· There will be an international statement or situation where people will cry out 'Peace and Security' (1/15/03 Watchtower). This has not yet occurred. We don't know if it will be a desire for peace or a belief that peace has been achieved.
· Matthew 24:14 has been fulfilled (every day 3,000,000 hours are spent in the ministry).

· The Great Tribulation has 3 stages: 1) Destruction of Babylon the Great, 2) Period of time in between Babylon's destruction and Armageddon, and 3) Armageddon.
· 1) Disgusting thing standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20)
o This occurred in 66 CE under Cestius Gallus when Jerusalem's wall was almost undermined. The Roman armies were disgusting because of their idolatrous ensigns. In 70 CE General Titus came to destroy the city.
o Unfaithful Jerusalem pictures unfaithful Christendom. Political nations within the UN will devastate Christendom, but it has not yet begun taking its threatening position against false religion (5/1/99 Watchtower, page 16).
§ Terrorists, such as Al-Qaeda, are targeting political nations, not religious organizations.
o Governments will confiscate all religious bank accounts and property. They will probably imprison clergymen and possibly kill them.
o Unless those days were cut short (Matthew 24:22), no flesh will be saved. This referred to the days in 66 CE (not 70 CE). Therefore, the modern application is at the beginning of the Great Tribulation - the destruction of Babylon the Great (not Armageddon). Unless those days were shortened, no flesh (true Christians) would be saved.

· 2) Between 66-70 CE the Jews were divided into factions within Jerusalem. Food ran out and people were prohibited from leaving the city. This occurred 'immediately after the tribulation of those days' (Matthew 24:29), referring to the destruction of Babylon the Great.
o The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven. The 2/15/94 Watchtower, page 20, indicates that this will likely be frightening phenomena in the sky more impressive than what was observed in Jerusalem.
o Josephus recorded that a comet appeared in Jerusalem in the first century and remained for 1 year (very unusual).
o Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21: 25, 26 indicates that men will beat themselves in lamentation and become faint out of fear. This happens during the Great Tribulation. Don't apply Luke 21:26 about men being 'faint out of fear' to today.
o Luke 21:25 mentions 'the anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation'. Brother Losch said this could also have a literal fulfillment (e.g. tsunamis).
o Luke 21: 27 describes mankind as seeing 'the Son of man coming in a cloud'. This sign is in heaven (not on the earth). Therefore it is not the sign of Jesus' presence, which has many facets here on earth today. Rather, everyone will recognize that what they are seeing is supernatural.
o Matthew 24:34 'this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur'. The anointed Christians still living will see the fulfillment of all the things foretold regarding the Great Tribulation, including Jesus' execution. However we do not know if they will survive Armageddon and enter the New World.
o There will be a final attack on God's people by the King of the North before Armageddon. We still cannot identify the King of the North and should not speculate (Daniel book page 281). We may not know until the attack on true Christians actually begins. This attack will probably parallel Gog's attack described at Ezekiel 38.

· 3) At Armageddon, everyone will recognize that it is divine judgment (Revelation 1:7 'every eye will see him').
o Zechariah 14:12 'There will be a rotting away of one's flesh, while one is standing upon one's feet; and one's very eyes will rot away in their sockets, and one's very tongue will rot away in one's mouth'. Jehovah may use radiation to destroy the wicked. (Yes, Brother Losch actually said 'radiation').
o The final separation of the sheep and goats will take place at this time.
We must be prepared. At an hour that we do not think it to be, the Son of man is coming (Matthew 24:44).
· Matthew 24:17 'Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house'. How could he flee without coming down from the roof? He would take the outside stairs or ladder, not bothering to go down through the house.
o We must be willing to leave everything behind! The first century Christians had to run - it meant the loss of absolutely everything. But their flesh or lives were saved.
o We will lose our homes, businesses, etc. We may be tested by how we view material things.
o The Christians in the first century fled to the mountains. Jehovah's mountain-like organization will offer protection (God's Kingdom could also be the mountain that we flee to).
Some doubt the nearness of the end because there are still so many to reach:
· There are 1.3 billion people in China (although we are preaching there)
· 1.0 billion in India where 80% have never been witnessed to
· 1.0 billion Muslims (although we are legal in the largest Muslim country, Indonesia, which has a population of 50 million more people than Russia)
But Jesus said that we would by no means complete the circuit of cities (Matthew 10:23). He said this after explaining what they should do when people persecute them. We don't know if Jehovah will open up other territories. He could do so in a way we never imagined. Regardless, we know that each life is precious to Him and we should work hard to preach to everyone.
The end is near. Revelation 17:11 described the UN as the eighth and final king. It has already lasted 3 times longer than it did before going into the abyss (as the League of Nations).

After Armageddon there will be a lot of work to do. Anyone who thinks the Thousand Years will be a long vacation is mistaken. We will have to cleanse the earth (Bible describes people traveling the earth to bury the dead) and prepare for the resurrection. New estimate is a resurrection of 30 billion people. Can you imagine 30 billion people reappearing on one day? No, it's not reasonable. We can assume that there will be a gradual resurrection (Insight book estimates 200-300 years), one generation at a time. This will make it possible to communicate with the previous generation. We will need to provide food and lodging for the newly resurrected ones. There may be special houses where the resurrections occur (those who died at sea won't be swimming to shore). We don't know if the dead will return with clothing or not, but we do know that they will be completely restored physically (no missing limbs, etc.). We can look forward to growing back hair, teeth, etc. Some animals already manifest such abilities (giant squid can grow back new arms and Amazonian fish grow new teeth over and over).

Do we really believe the end is near? Our decisions show what we truly believe. Don't seek great things for yourself (Jeremiah 45: 4, 5). This system is passing away. Rather seek first the kingdom. Jehovah has promised to preserve our souls as spoil and has offered us the opportunity to live as long as He does. What a privilege!

(There were 7,204 that attended this special talk at a rented convention center in Honolulu and 3,262 that were tied in at 21 other locations on the Hawaiian islands.

Is this account accurate? I thought it was a future event:rolleyes:

"1) Disgusting thing standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20)
o This occurred in 66 CE under Cestius Gallus when Jerusalem's wall was almost undermined. The Roman armies were disgusting because of their idolatrous ensigns. In 70 CE General Titus came to destroy the city."




Shikinah



So what are they trying to say?

That the disgusting thing that causes desolation had it's complete fulfillment in 66 CE?

And that Christians since then had 2000 years to flee the scene? :confused:

Very interesting and confusing interpretation I must say.

Also they definitely apply Christendom to a figurative Jerusalem today, but somehow or other Jerusalem is also the 144,000 anointed ones as well.

Confused, well I would be after hearing this talk.

Tsaphah
03-06-2010, 05:20 AM
Yes, some of what is said here was true. The comments about 66 and 70 C.E., are about as accurate as can be expected. Whether it represented the disgusting thing in the holy place, most “scholars and experts” tend to agree, but then again...

Did it have complete fulfillment, I would have to say no. Was Babylon the great destroyed, no.

Preaching work fulfilled, no.

“§ Terrorists, such as Al-Qaeda, are targeting political nations, not religious organizations.” What do they consider a Mosque to be? Political? Do they also consider other Christian organizations political?

“o Josephus recorded that a comet appeared in Jerusalem in the first century and remained for 1 year (very unusual).” Really? How did Josephus know it was a “comet”?

“the roaring of the sea and its agitation”. I believe this is a metaphor/figurative use and ties in with Revelation 17:1, 15. The people will become agitated because of the wild beast not doing what they want. Look around today. Are the peoples of the world satisfied with their governments? Is there more unrest among the people worldwide?

Way too many things here, and too many references that are “old hat” and “Matthew 24:34 'this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur'. The anointed Christians still living will see the fulfillment of all the things foretold regarding the Great Tribulation, including Jesus' execution. However we do not know if they will survive Armageddon and enter the New World.” How many generations will there have to be?

I have a hard time believing a corporation these days. Who is the CEO?

Jahsdisciple
03-06-2010, 09:21 PM
After Armageddon there will be a lot of work to do. Anyone who thinks the Thousand Years will be a long vacation is mistaken. We will have to cleanse the earth (Bible describes people traveling the earth to bury the dead) and prepare for the resurrection.


It will be a paradise of pleasure..or working towards that. So its not for him to say that its going to be a hard slog with endless work.

Just as Jah rested from His work,the kind of work we will have will be a pleasure to do.

Will we have to waste our lives just to get the basics like good food and a place to live ? NO ! We will BUILD houses AND have occupancy...which means we will enjoy the fruitage of our labour..if we are going to have occupancy. So to have a house we will have to work to have it. It wont be a dog box of some kind but a place that will be a pleasure to live in every day and an extention of Jahs gift of our creativeness. We will have to grow food to eat,but Jah will bless its growth. Look at places in tropical areas,do people have to work hard to have enough to eat ??

There will be rejoicing that finally the old system will be gone...and every day will be a celebration. Who knows what festivals will happen just after the final war !

Take your Victorian views of work some other place.

shikinah
03-07-2010, 11:36 PM
Thank you everyone,
to me it seems like they think Armageddon is the only sign we are still awaiting.
My biggest concern is if there is going to be a one world order and a one religious system, the brothers arnt prepared for this transition, there expecting an immediate destruction of religion. This is contrary to what they teach. The watchtowers light seems to have grown dim when understanding future events. What does the WT say the mark in the forehead and right hand is?