No Holy Spirit For John The Baptist

[mrgalleria]

Alo ha,
I don't watch or listen to Robert Kings information, though I suspect that he thinks I do,
judging by some of the replies that he has made to my comments.
A few days ago, my wife was sitting with me at the computer, and asked to see a Robert King video.
I happened to click on this one-
"Does the Bible teach that the earth will become a paradise?" from March 9, 2010.
Sorry, I will not post the link, as Robert King has been deleting my links.

I was very surprised to learn the following-
"Jesus...went to hell" @ 1:21minutes,
"his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,
"he (John the baptist) was not baptized as a follower of Christ" @ 2:27,
"he (John the baptist) was certainly not anointed with God's holy spirit" @ 2:30 minutes.

Does everyone here agree that these things are what the Bible teaches?
Bill

[Tsaphah]

Alo ha,
I don't watch or listen to Robert Kings information, though I suspect that he thinks I do,
judging by some of the replies that he has made to my comments.
A few days ago, my wife was sitting with me at the computer, and asked to see a Robert King video.
I happened to click on this one-
"Does the Bible teach that the earth will become a paradise?" from March 9, 2010.
Sorry, I will not post the link, as Robert King has been deleting my links.

I was very surprised to learn the following-
"Jesus...went to hell" @ 1:21minutes,
"his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,
"he (John the baptist) was not baptized as a follower of Christ" @ 2:27,
"he (John the baptist) was certainly not anointed with God's holy spirit" @ 2:30 minutes.

Does everyone here agree that these things are what the Bible teaches?
Bill

Bill, If you don't agree with what Robert says, why keep visiting here. After all, it is HIS site. He can do whatever he wishes with it. I'm not sure that I agree with everything that Robert says, but when he uses bible scriptures to prove a point, I check it out. When scripture is applied correctly, I whole heartedly agree with him. As for the points you state, yes, Bill, I do agree with what Robert says. It is backed up with scripture.

Yes, Jesus did go to Hell, not in a hand basket, but he did go to "sheol", the common grave of mankind.

Yes, his followers did see him ascend into heaven.

I won't take the time now to quote the scriptures that cover these points.

Tsaphah

[elihu]

Alo ha,
I don't watch or listen to Robert Kings information, though I suspect that he thinks I do,
judging by some of the replies that he has made to my comments.
A few days ago, my wife was sitting with me at the computer, and asked to see a Robert King video.
I happened to click on this one-
"Does the Bible teach that the earth will become a paradise?" from March 9, 2010.
Sorry, I will not post the link, as Robert King has been deleting my links.

I was very surprised to learn the following-
"Jesus...went to hell" @ 1:21minutes,
"his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,
"he (John the baptist) was not baptized as a follower of Christ" @ 2:27,
"he (John the baptist) was certainly not anointed with God's holy spirit" @ 2:30 minutes.

Does everyone here agree that these things are what the Bible teaches?
Bill

i cannot understand why you are surprised Bill, that is what the bible teaches.
Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and ascended into heaven.
elihu

[Juan23]

Alo ha,
I don't watch or listen to Robert Kings information ...
l

It's your loss Mr G. And yes I do believe the 4 points that you alluded to.
In fact most JW believe them even those not in this forum.

[mrgalleria]

"why keep visiting here"

Alo ha,
Have you ever gone into the ministry?
If so, why do you ask this question?

Since you agree that Robert King is right, you may want to consider what the Bible says-
Luke 1:15- "...he (John) will be filled with holy spirit right from his mothers womb."
Luke 1:17- "...with Elijah's spirit...".
Luke 1:41- "...the infant (John) in her womb leaped; and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit..."
Luke 1:66- "..."What really will this young child be?" For the hand of Jehovah was indeed with it".
Luke 1:80- "And the young child went on growing and getting strong in spirit..."
John 1:29- "The next day he (John) beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said "See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!"
Matthew 3:13-14- "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan, to John, in order to be baptized by him. But the latter tried to prevent him, saying: "I am the one needing to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?"".
Hell-
Matthew 5:22- "...in danger of the fire of hell."
Matthew 5:29- "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
Matthew 10:28- "the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matthew 18:9- "the fire of hell."
Matthew 23:33- "condemned to hell"
Mark 9:43- "with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
Luke 16:23- "In hell, where he was in torment"
James 3:6- "and is itself set on fire by hell'.
2 Peter 2:4- "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;".

""his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,""
Acts 1:9- "...while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him from their vision."

Bill

[Juan23]

"why keep visiting here"

Alo ha,
Have you ever gone into the ministry?
If so, why do you ask this question?

Since you agree that Robert King is right, you may want to consider what the Bible says-
Luke 1:15- "...he (John) will be filled with holy spirit right from his mothers womb."
Luke 1:17- "...with Elijah's spirit...".
Luke 1:41- "...the infant (John) in her womb leaped; and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit..."
Luke 1:66- "..."What really will this young child be?" For the hand of Jehovah was indeed with it".
Luke 1:80- "And the young child went on growing and getting strong in spirit..."
John 1:29- "The next day he (John) beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said "See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!"
Matthew 3:13-14- "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan, to John, in order to be baptized by him. But the latter tried to prevent him, saying: "I am the one needing to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?"".
Hell-
Matthew 5:22- "...in danger of the fire of hell."
Matthew 5:29- "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
Matthew 10:28- "the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matthew 18:9- "the fire of hell."
Matthew 23:33- "condemned to hell"
Mark 9:43- "with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
Luke 16:23- "In hell, where he was in torment"
James 3:6- "and is itself set on fire by hell'.
2 Peter 2:4- "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;".

""his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,""
Acts 1:9- "...while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him from their vision."

Bill


(Luke 1:15) for he will be great before Jehovah. But he must drink no wine and strong drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb;

(Luke 1:17) Also, he will go before him with E‧li′jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.”

(Luke 1:41) Well, as Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the infant in her womb leaped; and Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit,

(Luke 1:66) and all that heard made note of it in their hearts, saying: “What really will this young child be?” For the hand of Jehovah was indeed with it.

(Luke 1:80) And the young child went on growing and getting strong in spirit, and he continued in the deserts until the day of showing himself openly to Israel.

(John 1:29) The next day he beheld Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!

(Matthew 3:13-14) Then Jesus came from Gal′i‧lee to the Jordan to John, in order to be baptized by him. 14*But the latter tried to prevent him, saying: “I am the one needing to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?”

(Matthew 5:22) However, I say to YOU that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge‧hen′na.

(Matthew 5:29) If, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Ge‧hen′na.

(Matthew 10:28) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge‧hen′na.

(Matthew 18:9) Also, if your eye is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Ge‧hen′na.

(Matthew 23:33) “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge‧hen′na?

(Mark 9:43) “And if ever your hand makes you stumble, cut it off; it is finer for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go off into Ge‧hen′na, into the fire that cannot be put out.

(Luke 16:23) And in Ha′des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz′a‧rus in the bosom [position] with him.

(James 3:6) Well, the tongue is a fire. The tongue is constituted a world of unrighteousness among our members, for it spots up all the body and sets the wheel of natural life aflame and it is set aflame by Ge‧hen′na.

(2 Peter 2:4) Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta‧rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;

(Acts 1:9) And after he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision.

Hi Mr G.
I thought you are a witness or a former witness or a disassociated witness or a disfellowshipped witness. You don’t seem to any of those.

Just to let us know where you are coming from – what is your religion?
Are you just trying to make us think?
Are you trying to convert us to your religion? I guess you can try. But I don’t know what Robert will think of that.

I posted the texts you cited partially. As a JW I have an understanding of them. But really not enough to question my beliefs.

As for the holy spirit; many persons in pre-christian times have holy spirit. To mention a few; Abraham, Moses, Samson, David. But starting with the establishment of the Christian congregation in 33 C. E. there is a special anointing with holy spirit that means being invited to heaven to rule as king with Jesus.

John the Baptizer did have holy spirit like the bible says, but he did not have the holy spirit that means he was invited to heaven because he was already sleeping in death in 33 C. E.

[elihu]

Hi MRG (BILL)

" do not cling to me for i have not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my bretheren and say to them"i am ascending to my father and to your Father and to MY God and Your God" john 20:17

acts 1:11
" who also said" men of galilee why do you stannd gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven"

so you seem to imply mrg how could the disciples standing there really see into heaven?
what then? is jesus living in a cloud with Jehovah?
is the next revealtion of truth from you that they are both in a spaceship circling the earth!

i find that incredibly shallow with regard to someone who claims GOd reveals secrets directly to him

i will take this opportunity to humbly apologise to Anthony who is obviously a much better judge of character than myself.

elihu

[Peter]

As for the holy spirit; many persons in pre-christian times have holy spirit. To mention a few; Abraham, Moses, Samson, David. But starting with the establishment of the Christian congregation in 33 C. E. there is a special anointing with holy spirit that means being invited to heaven to rule as king with Jesus.

John the Baptizer did have holy spirit like the bible says, but he did not have the holy spirit that means he was invited to heaven because he was already sleeping in death in 33 C. E.

I believe they call it being Born Again, something John was not.

[watchman]

A person can have God's holy spirit operating upon them and not be anointed by the spirit. Obviously, John the baptizer had God's spirit, but he was not anointed by it. The anointing did not commence until 50 days after Christ had died. John was not around then. He had been killed sometime during Christ's ministry. That is why Jesus stated that even though there had been no greater man born of woman, the least one in the kingdom was greater than John. Why? Because even though John had the amazing privilege of introducing Jesus to the world, even baptizing him, John was not born again and, thus, was not part of Christ's heavenly kingdom.

As for Jesus being in hell, I specifically stated that Jesus went to hell according to the King James. Read the 2nd chapter Acts in an older King James version. It says Christ was not left in hell.

Hope that helps
watchman

[Tsaphah]

Bill, I would suggest that you use all the resources available to you when studying the bible. Why? Here is a good example.

In your scriptural quotes: Matthew 5:22, 29; 10:28; 18:9; 23:33; Mark 9:43; James 3:6, the Greek word that is translated as hell in these scriptures is, “geenna”, sometimes spelled “gehenna”, and not “hades”. So, the fire is only associated with “geenna” and not “hades”. Geenna/Gehenna represented complete destruction, and not the common grave of mankind, as you will see from the description and definition given below.

Hades: Definition (Strong's Number: 86)


name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

(Thayer and Smith. "Greek Lexicon entry for hades")

Gehenna: Definition (Strong's Number: 1067)

“Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.” (Thayer and Smith. "Greek Lexicon entry for Geenna")

Here are a few translations of the scripture that Robert suggested in the above post. These are from Acts 2:27, 31. These scriptures use the Greek word, “hades”.

“because you will not abandon my soul to hades, nor allow your holy one to undergo decay. (NAS )

“Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” (KJV)

“For you will not let my soul be in hell and you will not give up your Holy One to destruction.” (BEB )

“Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption:” (Websters)

The Basic English Bible uses the word “destruction” here. This can be misleading because if you associate destruction with “gehenna/geenna”, then you would think they are the same. The Greek work used is, “diaphtheiro”, having the meaning of “to change for the worse, to corrupt, to consume, of bodily vigour and strength. Also, of the worm or moth that eats provisions, clothing, etc.

The other scriptural reference you quote, Luke 16:23, uses the word “hades”, which is the equivalent of the Hebrew, “sheol”, meaning the common grave of mankind.

Then, at 2 Peter 2:4, the word used is, “tartaroo”, a completely different place and meaning. That is why Peter refers to the ”gloomy dungeons”. This is a place of confinement, until the time of destruction comes for them. These are the spirits spoken of by Peter at 1 Peter 3:19, that Jesus spoke to. The scripture is sometimes translated as Jesus “preached to the spirits”. The correct translation is, “proclaimed”, or made “proclamation to”. In other words, these spirit creatures are those who forsook their original position, and followed Satan's example. (Ge 6:1-8) These include those demons who asked Jesus if he was coming to judge them before the appointed time. (Mt 8:29)

I hope this will help you in your further study of the bible.

Tsaphah

[tortas]

Alo ha,
I don't watch or listen to Robert Kings information, though I suspect that he thinks I do,
judging by some of the replies that he has made to my comments.
A few days ago, my wife was sitting with me at the computer, and asked to see a Robert King video.
I happened to click on this one-
"Does the Bible teach that the earth will become a paradise?" from March 9, 2010.
Sorry, I will not post the link, as Robert King has been deleting my links.

I was very surprised to learn the following-
"Jesus...went to hell" @ 1:21minutes,
"his disciples saw him ascend into the heavens" @ 1:33 minutes,
"he (John the baptist) was not baptized as a follower of Christ" @ 2:27,
"he (John the baptist) was certainly not anointed with God's holy spirit" @ 2:30 minutes.

Does everyone here agree that these things are what the Bible teaches?
Bill


yes, i agree

its not too late to learn the truth bra

[Tsaphah]

Some further information that I forgot to include. The scripture of Acts 2:27,31 are a quote of Ps 16:10. “For you will not leave my soul in Sheol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.” (NWT)

You will notice that the Hebrew word, which was translated into Greek as “hades”, was “Sheol”. (Strong's Number: H7585) Definition of Sheol”


sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

the underworld
Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead



The King James Version/Translation is: “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”

“For you shall not abandon my soul in Hades, nor shall you give your sacred one to see corruption.” (Ps 16:10 Greek Septuagint Translation)

From this we can clearly see that it was prophesied that the Messiah, Jesus Christ, would fulfill this scripture. That is why Peter used this particular verse to explain what had to, and did happen to Jesus. He was in HELL, for nearly three days. Another thing to remember, when he was resurrected, he didn't have the same body. (Jn 20:14) He then told her, “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’” (Jn 20:17)

But of course, those who believe in the trinity will use the verses of John 20:24-29 to show that Jesus DID have the same body. And, Thomas called him GOD! I often use the answering expression, “You Fool!”. This takes them by surprise, and they show anger at being called a Fool. Then I explain, that it is an expression of amazement, the same as a person who has eaten too much and holds their belly and says, “OH, MY GOD!”

Agapé,
Tsaphah