I feel lost and confused.

[JB]

I have never been a religious man or raised to be one, untill Jehovah Witnesses came to my door. At the young age of 15 I was intigued by these individuals and the magazines they carried. I wanted to learn more. I moved to NC at 17 and they came to my door there. My first words to them were AWAKE! They said YES! I started a bible study and got the idea of the doctrines and what the bible really teaches. I moved to a different area in NC and lost touch. I eventually moved back to MO, and there was no more contact with Jehovah Witnesses. At the age of 31 I still never forgot Jehovah Witnesses and what they taught. Having very little experience I always defended Jehovah Witnesses when religion was brought up, and said they are probably the "best" religion. I was moved one day about 7-8 months back to contact them and slowly start to learn again. They have been around ever since. I have started to attend meetings regulary, started a bible study, got my wife involved with a bible study, and viewed this web site regualry. I have also viewed other websites. Site after site lists horrible things about the Watchtower. Cult, brainwash, false prophets....just to name a few. Since coming back I have felt this urge almost uncontrollable to learn and read the bible, for that I thank Jehovah Witnesses. But I am unsure and confused of the doctrine and what the bible as a whole teaches. I should rephrase. I know what Jehovah Witnesses doctrines are and how they interpret the bible, but not other christian denominations.

Since returning to the Kingdom Hall I have gotten praise after praise about my knowledge (basic doctrine using the Bible teach book). I am not satisfied. Me and my wife have been spending hours a night racking are brains and wearing out our bibles on the beef of the doctrines, almost all of which are different then mainstream christian denominations. Are Jehovah Witnesses right? Or are the other christian denominations right? I don't know. My consciouse will not stop troubling me because I have never given the trinity the same type of effort as the non trinity. What if JW's are wrong? I can not put 100% faith into Jehovah Witness teachings without seeking out and learning what other denomitions believe and teach. I would be cheating the fine people at the Kingdom Hall, and myself. I find this a very serious matter. What brought me to this was not only my own brain wracking trying to decipher everyones doctrine, but also the Kingdom Hall. Around this time of year I like to grow a nice ghoatee. Well trimed and professional. I have seen people looking at me, and then looking at there companion, motioning their hands to their chins. The wife of the man I study with said huh growing out the beard. I said yes just something I do every year. Later that day I find out she asked my wife about it. This really bothered me. Not because of the fact that Jehovah created me to have a beard and I am free to do what I want with it. It's that I now find myself more concerned about what people are saying and not eager to get to the meetings and LEARN the bible, and I'm fairly new!

Which is all I want, to learn the bible forwards and backs. Having said all the above, with this urge I have developed I have looked into a seminary, to learn from an unbiased non watchtower view. Will this move me to put 100% faith in the trinity and the other christian denominations, or will it move me to realize that I was with the truth all along, shave my beard and shut up. Meaning I have 10000000% certanity that I have the truth. Without attending this seminary I dont think I will ever get there. I NEED both sides. I need for myself Matthew 7:7 to come true, and truly keep seeking intill I am satisfied. I have yet to feel that blast of holy spirt, knocking me in the head and saying this is the truth.

Mr. Watchman said I should not take anyones word for what it is in a recent video. I need the bible from all views.

Thank you for letting me post, my intent is not to stumble anyone or debate doctrine or bash the Watchtower. This is just me and my thoughts. I have to keep seeking, and see if I come back to the Watchtower for good with 1000000% conviction. It is a very big decision to get baptized or saved, either way you go and I have to be sure.


I hope I can continue to be a part of this community, I promise to uphold my obligations and not argue doctrine on this site. May Jehovah be with you all and I am eagarly awaiting all comments

Jason

[Tsaphah]

Dear JB and Mrs. JB,
For now, I can only offer this. Study the Bible. Use it as your guide. Become a follower of Jesus Christ. Use his example, and not that of other humans. By doing this, you will gain a close relationship with Jesus Christ, and his father, Jehovah God. Remember what Peter wrote to the Christian congregation. “For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2 Pet 1:20-21”

I just got off the phone with a very close friend, who was feeling down and discouraged. I said, “Think of things this way. We have discussed 'That ring of truth in the bible', do you remember that?”. We have attended many shows and after the show, we comment to the musician, “That was a great song you played, we loved it.” Their reply was, “Yeah, but I hit a few bad notes.” Our statement is, “We didn't hear it.”

The point is, with much study, no matter what the subject is, you gain knowledge of that subject. Like the musician, you would recognize that wrong note. When you study the bible and gain accurate knowledge, you will begin to recognize that “ring of truth”, and identify the wrong notes. A musician knows certain note patterns in a written composition. He can recognize what that pattern is and before long, can be able to play that composition without fault, and without the written work. It may soon become what is called “second nature”. When that musician hears someone else play that same song, he will be able to hear wrong notes that are played, and be able to point them out to other listeners.

I didn't post a reply to your wife's question about the so-called “Book of Enoch.” I felt it would be better for her to read it, and possibly see the discrepancies in it. Then, I had second thoughts. It is bogus. That is why that and many other so-called books were never accepted as belonging in the Bible. They lack that “ring of truth.” The one example in the “Book of Enoch” is his speaking of rain, before the Flood of Noah's day. Here is what Genesis says, “ Now there was as yet no bush of the field found in the earth and no vegetation of the field was as yet sprouting, because Jehovah God had not made it rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. But a mist would go up from the earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. (Gen 2:5-6) Oh Oh! Which is right? The Bible account in Genesis, or the “Book of Enoch”? There are many other falsehoods in this book that deal with the state of the soul/spirit, etc. It really lacks any "ring of truth".

Keep the faith that you have learned from the beginning. You will surely receive many of Jehovah's blessings. (Eph 2:11-18)

Agapé,
Tsaphah

[Jahsdisciple]

I started understanding th bible at 14yo. I 'followed' for a while till i realised that you are dedicated to Jehovah and PART of an organisation..NOT dedicated to it. JWs doctrinaly are right. BUT the most important thing is knowing the truth about Jehovah. Thats why the 'greatest man book' was the book that had the greatest impact on me. I saw Jah as a person. Doctrine is a small part of the His personality.

So focus on that.

People in the cong are like any family. People have their hang-ups. If YOU feel comfortable having a beard,what does it matter if other talk about it. Like i said,you are there for Jehovah,not the approval of other insecure people who think having a beard is such a big thing that they rudely point it out like you are not there.

The truth is like life. you have ups and downs. Dont expect a rush of HS. It doesnt happen like that. Its not pentecost..LOL. When you learn something,apply it and know you will be better of because following Jah laws makes us happy. Our days will be richer for knowing there is a better future,but live in the now. Realise we are still in His image though flawed..this means there is a lot of good in us and Jah laws are there to bring that out and protect us from damaging that gift He gave us.

[FutureMan]

Hello JB & Mrs JB, I do not really feel qualified to advise you in this matter of how to decide, except that each one of us must decide for ourselves what really is the "truth" as each one who are adults, are personally responsible, for our own salvation.

We do not answer to an organization such as the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses or any other religion for that matter.

We individually answer to Jesus Christ as he is the one whom Jehovah has put in charge over all the earth and also he has the Holy Spirit and the angels at his disposal to achieve God's will.

When Jesus will be separating the sheep and the goats, we need to be able to say honestly that we have done all we can to show our love for God and for our neighbor who ever he may be.

We do not want to be like those ones who say, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?" (Matthew 7:22) [LITV]

Now I personally feel that before each of us take a step to join ourselves to any religion we need to consider what other beliefs are out their so that we can confirm to ourselves that we have the "truth", this we need to confirm for ourselves.

Their are many different variety of Christian beliefs out their.

Some are quite different to Jehovah' Witnesses, such as the Catholics as to their understanding who God is (the trinity,) others are rather similar to Jehovah's Witnesses when it comes to a belief in a singular Almighty God.

Christadelphians are one of these.

But they differ in that they do not believe that Satan is really a person but represents Evil that can manifest itself in each one of us.

Other Christians who believe in a single God might believe that Satan is a real being, but they differ as regards the observance of the sabbath day for instance and so on.

But if we always use God's Word as a measuring stick, up against what these religions preach, then we can discern the "truth" for ourselves.

God's Word is contained in the Bible cannon, which is currently 66 books, that was decided upon by the church at the council at Nicaea over 1600 years ago. http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

God's spirit will operate on any one who reads his word and applies it in his life and dealings with his fellow man, and is searching for the "truth"

As Jesus stated keep on knocking and the door will be opened to you.

(Mathew 7) [LITV]
7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8 For each one that asks receives, and the one that seeks finds; and to the one knocking, it will be opened.

So if we sincerely pray for understanding and God's Spirit to help us then this Jesus will do for us as he is the one who has authority to utilize God's Holy Spirit in whatever way that he needs to achieve his Heavenly father's will, which is also his will as well.

[elihu]

welcome mr and mrs JB

i am not a JW but i studied with them in 1996 for a while, i attended meeting, read their literature and my life started to change.
from being an active life loving person i changed into a sad person with no zeal for life, just wanting Gods kingdom to come to save us all from this mad world.

the dedication of baptism was something that i could never seem to committ to, the meetings, and the conventions all became too much and i gradually faded away from them and the brothers seemingly gave up on me .
they now focus on my wife, sending sisters, with WT literature, to call when she is at home and i am not.

i can only say this from the hurtful experience that i have had.

I WISH I HAD BECOME PART OF THEM AND BAPTISED MYSELF TO JEHOVAH.
how my life would have been so much healthier.
even if they are wrong about 1914 etc they are doing what they are doing because they are following Christ.
they are declaring the good news of the kingdom with their hearts
" how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news"

i now find myself in a position where the worlld that i trusted in is dying, it is quickly flowing into the like time of the days of Noah, and our faith will be tested.

none so more than the unsuspecting witnesess, but i know that the brothers and sisters who i know are doing these things for the right reasons and their faith is in Jehovah and His Son, and that faith, even with its many false attachments, will stand them before the Son of Man as beautiful sheep.

MR and MRS JB the truth lies in your hearts and it is simple it is based on 2 commandments
love Jehovah your God with all your heart and mind and with all your strength and love your neighbour as yourself

the rest is simply hearsay

elihu

[Marque100]

I wish someone would bury the Trinity. How many times does something need to be explained that its a false teaching?

As the Christadelphians were mentioned, another group worth checking out is the Restoration Fellowship; again, similar beliefs to JW's

Restoration Fellowship
http://focusonthekingdom.org/beliefs.html

[LonelySheep]

Hi JB and Mrs JB,

Many moons ago I was in exactly your same position and still am, that is why I'm a member of this board.

For me finding the 'Truth' is simply not an arbitrary decision. We cant simply say 'Oh, this sounds right' and then accept what appeals to our hearts or minds and leave it as that.

On the ministry I have been asked the question many times, how do you know if you're right? And it is a good question. Ask a member from any denomination if they think they are right and for the most part they will say of course I am.

However for me, they way I answer such a question and why I decided JW's were right for the most part is that I used the Bible as my yardstick. So, take any given topic that may be on your mind and 'measure' it against the Bible. For example take the topic of death. Without going into the subject in any details, compare what one denomination says about it and then compare that with what the bible says. If the viewpoint of the denomination agrees with the Bible then Bingo!! If not view what they say with a pinch of salt.

Personally, I was searching for the Truth from a young age. I didnt know exactly how the Truth would manifest itself, but using the above criteria to decide to whom I should listen to, I chose the subject of 'Why would a loving God permit evil?' I remember at school asking a priest that question. The reply was the same fluffy non-sensical rubbish that I heard before at church services. Answers like 'God is a mystery..." or "Nobody can say, but it must be part of his purpose....." etc,etc. I actively sought out churches and I would ask the same question to priests and I would get the same answer regardless of denomination. However one day JW's came to the door of my uncle, who I was living with at the time; I had never even heard of JW's, much less spoken to one. So I popped the question. Their reply had the affect on me as if I had been pole-axed. For the first time after years of searching, I had a sensible answer and from the bible. And the rest as they say is history. I studied with them and became a 'fully paid up' member. I forgot to mention, during my search for the Truth, I looked into other religions. Buddhism, TM, etc. But all failed to answer that one simple question.What I admired about the JW's at the time was the fact that all the answers were logical, and made rational sense in the mind and not just an emotional impact on the heart.

Another critirea I set for myself is how a given denomination has acted and acts in a time of national crisis like war for example. Using this single yardstick to measure the veracity of a denomination will clear the deck of most of them. If a religion claims to be a follower of Christ, how can it condone war? As John put it:

(1Jn 3:10) The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.(1Jn 3:11) For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another;(1Jn 3:12) not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous.

As I said before, it is one thing to teach Christ, but how have the denomination fared in this single aspect? Do they have blood on their hands? Look at the current conflicts in the world, how many have 'Christian' pitted against 'Christian'/Muslim etc. Take for example in Nigeria where the so called Christians retaliate against their Muslim neighbours by butchering them with machetes. And then on Sunday they are sitting down in the pews praising Jesus. So it makes little difference what a denomination may preach (Trinity, Love, Heaven etc) if they fail this one simple test.

Having said all the above, I don't believe as I used to that JW's have all the answers, but using the above criteria they are the closest fit, albeit not a very good one in certain aspects. And I fully relate to the beard thing. I grow mine in the winter and I have the same reaction as you. But hey, we serve God and besides if Jah didn't want us to have beards, why did he give us the ability to have them. Besides it was okay for Jesus, then it okay for me.:)

I hope my two cents has helped and I pray that Jah may help in your quest.

[SWORDOFJAH]

JB I can honestly tell you that no other religion entity has the truth about Jehovah and his purposes as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

For a deep study go to www.watchtower.org and click Beliefs and Activities. There is a great deal of information that will help you.

[FutureMan]

For a deep study go to www.watchtower.org (http://www.watchtower.org) and click Beliefs and Activities. There is a great deal of information that will help you.

:rolleyes:

[shikinah]

:rolleyes:

Mr & Mrs JB welcome to the board.
Firstly I'd like to point something out about ALL the Trinitarian Denominations, they are or all eventually will be part of the "World Council Of Churches" who are also part of the modern ecumenical movement. They are linked to the UN and the Lucis trust and are spearheading the climate change "mother earth" godess worship. This is the central chore of Babylon The Great.
Jehovah wanted his name made known, and these charletons hid it, while the JW made it known throughout the earth. The truth is simple its not complicated, just pray to Jehovah through his son Christ Jesus and you will be shown the way:)
http://www.oikoumene.org/en/who-are-we.html watch the videos and the blaphemy of Totem pole gods within the trinity church.


Blessings
Shikinah

[JB]

Wow thank you guys so much. It is much easier to get out how I feel to you all then face to face with my teachers. Looks like seminary may be out. I have to sign a Faith and Doctrine statement before being allowed admission. Which completly goes against why I would like to attend, to figure out what the truth is. I can not possibly make a commitment like that without first learning from their perspective. If anyone would like to see these doctrines and what I must commit too before gaining admission (with scriptual references) you can go to www.calvary.edu (http://www.calvary.edu), and look under spiritual requirements. My point of directing you there is the hope you can see why they believe in the trinity and argue there scriptures they have listed.


Thank you all again........I will meditate on this some more and heed all of your advice. I will continue to attend meetings and the bible study, and always rely on Watchman and everyone else for my personal study questions. I only wish I could meet with all of you on this site, for weekly bible study in person. But I will rely on the Web to continue meeting with you all.

Jason

[panda]

Hello JB
Keep praying and keep studying, but take a chance and go to meetings, associate with the b/s if you can, be open minded, and allow the special knowledge you have about the truth, not to side tract you away from the b/s, and going to meetings, its not easy but you and your wife could be of such help to b/s in the future when Jehovah judges his house, most b/s are not expecting this and will not only be confused but many will need comfort and help from Gods word as to why.

We could strengthen their faith and help them. This of course will build up our own relationship with Jehovah and gain many blessings, as we help others. Mark 12:29,30 James 1:27)

You have a thirst for spiritual things, and Christ is our shepherd, he is the only one that can lead us to the pure waters of life, which is shown in what he taught and he being the model to follow.

He had compassion mercy and love, for all those tossed about without a shepherd. Perhaps the key to understanding anything is shown in the way Christ helped and cared for others, there is so much to gain, and we can pray for God to help us to be more giving to help us to continue to put on the fruitages of the spirit.

Knowledge is just that, and can just be words, but putting into practice the simply teachings of Christ becomes truth, the truth that leads to eternal life, and its simple not confusing, all other things will be added to us if we just try and follow the basic teaching of Christ. John 8:32
1John 4:7,8 John 15:12,13 Phil 1:9-11. 2Cor 8:24

1Cor 2:9) Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him. :)

[Tsaphah]

May I ask, JB, is there a reason for you attending the Calvary Bible College? Did the followers of Jesus need “Biblical Higher Education” and “sign a Faith and Doctrine statement before being allowed admission”? I can’t find one scripture where Jesus required these to be a believer and follower.

Where do they get a “Triune (=3) God” from Deut. 6:4? The mathematics does not add up, 1 does not equal 3. Also, trying to use Col. 1:16 to further show a scriptural reasoning for a “Triune God” is ridiculous. It is necessary to read the entire text. Taking a sentence out, is called “taking it out of context”. That is what is done with this scripture. Paul is explaining to the Colossians, who Jesus is, and was. Verse 15 says, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (NASB ) Is it logical to be the image of something you already are? Take a picture of yourself. That is an image of you, yet it is not you, it is your image. The word “image” means, 1. a physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing, photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.” Here is another translation, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” (KJV) If he (Jesus) is God, then they are saying that God was created. That goes against every other scripture that Jehovah God says. Another translation says, “Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things;” (Basic English Bible) So, how could Jesus exist as God, before coming into existence? If he is God, how could he exist before he created himself? Not logical, or true, it is a lie. Jesus is the “Son of God”. That is what the apostle John says, “To be sure, Jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll. But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.” (Jn 20:30-31)

I won’t go on any further, arguing against others claims that are biblically, and historically wrong. You will have to determine these thing on your own, by sincere prayer and study.

Agapé,
Tsaphah

[elihu]

yes Tsaphah makes an excellent point with regard to recognising true worshipers of God, that being the understanding of Who Jesus was , who is is Father , JEHOVAH, and their relationship that being Father and Son.

trinitarians often say that those who believe that Jesus is not God are guilty of applying human understanding to the things of God.
however if that is the case why would Jehovah put these things into terms that Humans can understand?
we all recognise and could fully explain a human father and son relationship , and so Jehovah uses those terms.
whereas the trinitarians go into endless mysteries about three being one but being seperate and one part becoming a man and dying.
but when questioned they say it was God who died for us?
the more they talk about it the more confusing it becomes and they end up back at the beginning "its a mystery" " man can not comprehend it"

so yes, the first of the 2 greatest commandments says
" you must love Jehovah your GOd with all your heart with all your mind and with all your strength"
and in order to do that you must know him and understand that he was the Father of the Son who came to this earth as a ransom for the sins of mankind.
Christ paid the ransom for mankind, not back to himself , but back to God His Father Jehovah.

elihu

[shikinah]

Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
The universe has a beginning.
Therefore the universe has a cause.
Its important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn't need a cause. In addition, Einstein's general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space.

Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time God is the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15). Therefore He doesn't have a cause.
In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

Also, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.

The Bible informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called “eternity.” God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.
Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(or a God)
The word BEGINNING, tells us that the WORD was a created being.

Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard EQUALITY with God a thing to be grasped,

1 John 1:1 What was from the BEGINNING, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life--

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only BEGOTTEN from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Greek word for "only begotten" is MONOGENES. It is a compound word made of two other Greek words MONOS meaning "only" and GENOS meaning "kind or race." If we combine the words we get "only kind" or "unique."

The Trinity is a deceptive deliberate and crewel twist, to denounce the soverignty of Jehovah God, Never in scripture did Jesus say I am Jehovah, infact he made it clear in the lords prayer "let your NAME be sanctified" yes Jesus is a God but he is not also Jehovah God.
Yet Jehovah is known as "he who causes to become" Christ Jesus was the word of God who caused creation to become manifest. Logic should also tell us that if Jesus had been tempted by satan and he was also Jehovah, the devil would have had access to heavenly sovereignty which would defeat all Gods wisdom and purpose.

[JB]

Hi Tsaphah. The only reason for attending was to learn why they belive the way they do from deep study of the bible from thier views. It seems the views are very different from JW's and other mainstream denomintation. I wanted to learn why from their unbiased view, the way I am from the Watchtowers unbiased veiw. However I am NOT interested anymore because I will not sign that letter or document or whatever. How could I make a commitment like that without knowing anything. I should LEARN first before being asked to sign something like that........you know how the Jehovah Witnesses do it. My only point is I dont want to go on any further without getting only answers from one set of people. I dont want to spend the next 20 years the way I feel now. But trust me when I say I am so much more a beliver in the non trinity then in the trinity. There is just too much history and scripture to support the non trinity.

Jehovah I feel works in mysterious ways. When I came home from work yesterday my wife was watching a documentary called Constantines sword. What a real winner he was. The documentary was in no way Watchtower related, but completly upheld what the JW's believe and teach. The Trinity argument was going on way back then, untill Constantine said STOP it and pick one and shut up. Obviously the Trinity won. Same thing with the cross and christmas, The cross shall be our symbol and we will take it to WAR with us. LOL. Let us bring in these pagan ideas like christmas to get more followers and perhaps the governments side on ours. How could I even think about in depth study in that.

This all from a man who had his own Wife and son executed. What a wonderful Christian :(

Thank you all for your comments I am staying with the bible as my authority and try not to rely to heavily on the Watchtower or "calvary". I will study the bible and do my own reasearch on what is confusing, and always always ask all my wonderful friends here questions that I need help with.

May Jehovah be with you all......
Jason


PS Since I am spending more and more time at the Kingdom Hall, I think I should change my profile soon :)