Resignation

[FaithfulJW]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

[shikinah]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

It will be sad to see you leave us FaithfulJW, but if you feel this is the best move for your spirituality then may Jehovah bless your decision and guide you on the right path.

Blessings
Shikinah

[mrgalleria]

Alo ha, and Alo ha.

[FutureMan]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

All the best to you FaithfulJW

[steff]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

I'm sorry to here that. I always enjoyed your posts.Why did you change your mind? What happened? Is it mr. g?

steff

[elihu]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY


goodbye FJW. sorry you feel that it is not proper for you to stay here.

it is a struggle for all believers at this time, confusion reigns until Christ returns, and we are all stumbling along in the darkness to some extent.
unitentionallly we can cause hurt to others in our attempts to understand scripture, i have posted many things that i now regret, especially with regard to the WTO.
they may well be misaligned with prophecy at times, but they remain a beacon in this dark world, heralding the kingdom of God.

i hope you find peace of mind wherever you go, and may Jehovah guide your path

elihu

[shikinah]

goodbye FJW. sorry you feel that it is not proper for you to stay here.

it is a struggle for all believers at this time, confusion reigns until Christ returns, and we are all stumbling along in the darkness to some extent.
unitentionallly we can cause hurt to others in our attempts to understand scripture, i have posted many things that i now regret, especially with regard to the WTO.
they may well be misaligned with prophecy at times, but they remain a beacon in this dark world, heralding the kingdom of God.

i hope you find peace of mind wherever you go, and may Jehovah guide your path

elihu

Very true words elihu I feel the same:)

[Marque100]

Bye then.

with a user name like FaithfulJW i guess he is (still) a Witnesss?

Were you/are you on Youtube?

M.

[watchman]

We all have to take care of our conscience. All the best to you FJW.

Watchman

[Eyes & Ears]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY


I understand the decision FJW, it certainly is difficult living in these challenging times.

There are times when things just don't feel right. After praying to Jehovah if one feels it is no longer proper to do a certain thing you must do what you personally feel is right for yourself.

I feel it here on the board at times and for that very reason and other reasons also I stop posting as much. I also get the same feeling at my congregation right now. The feeling is very powerful that something is not right.

I can stop posting on the board that is not an issue, but it is a little more involved to up and leave the congregation because you are dealing with am I running ahead and not letting Jehovah work things out or ..........................................So each one of us has to deal with our current understanding as well as our personal circumstances and that little tiny thing called CONSCIENCE.

Whatever your personal reasons for removing yourself from the board are, I hope you find peace internally. An unsettled inner is horrible to deal with.

Tough and challenging times we are living in FJW. Very tough. But Jehovah is
searching for those who want to worship him in Spirit and in Truth. So the best to you and your family, and I enjoyed reading parts of your book.

Take care

E & E

May Jehovah be with you and your family also.


John 14:6

[arimatthewdavies]

dear faithfull jehovahs wittnesses,
you do what is impressed upon you by jehovah! keep your focus upon jehovah and jesus,that what matters, and what ever your reasons for leaveing are i dont know but stay conected with a support group, may you receive eternal life through jesus christ our lord.

[Molly]

FaithfulJW

I am sorry to hear that you will be leaving us.
May Jehovah be with you as well.
Your expressions of faith will be missed.

Molly

[Jahsdisciple]

Dont take this the wrong way,but if this place is not the right place to be,then why say good-bye ?

I think that you feel you must say good-bye is because you were here for a reason. You talk about "conscience"...but what promted you to be here and join ? Its a tough decision to be here because when we dont get answers we search for them. Thats telling you something...and just as we must listen to our conscience,the fact that you were here 'searching',is telling you something !

You dont have to agree with everything thats said here. Its like any congo with lots of people...you are going to get many differnat ideas. BUT if you have read something thats seriously challenging you,you must adress why.

If its a lie,then reject it ! But your handle is saying "you are a faithful JW"...or are striving to be one. You are dedicated to Jah and 'part' of an organisation.

Maybe what you have read is direction for you to question some things. Maybe its not. But dont get being a JW confused with being dedicated to Jah. Again,dont take this the wrong way. Im sharing something Ive personally learned and was directed to learn. Not from here,but i learnt this just the same.

[FutureMan]

But dont get being a JW confused with being dedicated to Jah.

Hello Jahsdisciple, you hit the nail right on it's head.

When we dedicated ourselves before we got baptized, we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as Witnesses of his and his Christ.

The organization happens to be made up of those who have dedicated themselves to Jehovah.

The organization has changed this in 1985 by making this dedication more to being dedicated to a spirit directed organization by the second vow at the time of baptism, so therefore afterward you are more exclusively tied to the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses rather than elusively to Jehovah God himself.

This has become a snare to it's members as now they are taught that the organization is the only way to salvation, rather than Christ himself.

The organization is the ark of salvation according to it's own literature and you cannot receive salvation outside it's figurative borders.

This goes contrary to what the scriptures actually say.

[Cephalon]

This has become a snare to it's members as now they are taught that the organization is the only way to salvation, rather than Christ himself.






I wonder where you get your information. Or are you knowingly spreading misinformation?

And btw, what's the "organization"?

[FutureMan]

I wonder where you get your information. Or are you knowingly spreading misinformation?

And btw, what's the "organization"?

Would you believe the Watchtower Society's own literature and the congregation?

My own congregation were actually very pedantic, in the organization being an ark, as it was stipulated from the platform a number of times that you cannot be saved if you do not belong to the organization of Jehovah's witnesses.

As to what is the organization as to my understanding, it is the composite of the legal entity known as the Watchtower Society and the members of the "Christian congregation of Jehovah's witnesses"

[FutureMan]

If some of the information or comments I make on this forum is mis-information, this is certainly not my intent as I'm an active seeker of what is the "truth" wherever it leads to.

The scriptures urge us all to carefully examine every inspired utterance no matter where it comes from.

This does apply to all of us.

[SlaveForJah]

I am sad to see you go, FJW. Though we oftentimes disagreed on points of theology, I never failed to see your obvious love for your brothers and for your husbandly owner Christ Jesus. I will miss your anecdotes encouraging us to reflect and imitate Christ's love, as well as your staunch defense of your brothers and sisters. Your loving and kind nature will serve you well when your inspection takes place, and I look forward to meeting you on the other side of this system of things. If you need to move on from participation in this forum, so be it, so long as your motivation is to further solidify your faith in Christ and Jehovah God and bolster your relationship with them.

I pray all the best for you and sister FJW in the days and years ahead. May Jehovah bless your efforts to stay close to him.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[SWORDOFJAH]

Originally Posted by FutureMan


This has become a snare to it's members as now they are taught that the organization is the only way to salvation, rather than Christ himself.


This is a wrong statement from FM. JW'S are taught that:

*** w00 6/1 p. 11 Keep Your “Hope of Salvation” Bright! ***

The Basis for Salvation—The Ransom

6 Everlasting salvation is possible only through Christ’s ransom sacrifice.

[Peter]

Hi FJW

I don’t think we can so easily checkout of this place at least mentally. I tried some years back to rid myself of this knowledge and bury my head back into Watchtower and all it teachings, yet each time I read the bible I realised I’d opened the box and there’s no putting it back.

I wish you good health and Jehovah’s blessing

Peter

[watchman]

Originally Posted by FutureMan


This has become a snare to it's members as now they are taught that the organization is the only way to salvation, rather than Christ himself.


This is a wrong statement from FM. JW'S are taught that:

*** w00 6/1 p. 11 Keep Your “Hope of Salvation” Bright! ***

The Basis for Salvation—The Ransom

6 Everlasting salvation is possible only through Christ’s ransom sacrifice.

I think most here recognize that although the WT teaches that Jesus is central to salvation, they also teach that it is vital to be part of the organization as well. But is not viewed as a contradiction since it is generally accepted that Jesus is running the organization. What is not accepted or understood is that there is to be a future day of reckoning for the house of God. The WT teaches that that has already taken place way back in 1918. Big surprises coming down the pike.

watchman

[truthseeker]

The last two replies by Peter and Watchman are rock solid.

Hang in there “Faithful”

[shikinah]

Hi FJW

I don’t think we can so easily checkout of this place at least mentally. I tried some years back to rid myself of this knowledge and bury my head back into Watchtower and all it teachings, yet each time I read the bible I realised I’d opened the box and there’s no putting it back.

I wish you good health and Jehovah’s blessing

Peter

This is very true, its like the first time when I found the truth it was like nothing i'd ever heard before and thought I'd never hear again. But since then Jesus light has been the key, the sacred secret to this box which we can never again close or be hidden. Only the truth can make you feel like this. As India Irie once sang "you know the truth by the way it feels, either it is or it is'nt, you know the truth because it needs no proof, either it is or it is'nt"


Shikinah

[FutureMan]

I think most here recognize that although the WT teaches that Jesus is central to salvation, they also teach that it is vital to be part of the organization as well. But is not viewed as a contradiction since it is generally accepted that Jesus is running the organization. What is not accepted or understood is that there is to be a future day of reckoning for the house of God. The WT teaches that that has already taken place way back in 1918. Big surprises coming down the pike.

watchman

Okay I probably opened up a can of worms here by not elaborating properly on what I meant.

Yes as you said watchman, the WT has indeed taught that Jesus is central to salvation, and I'm not disputing that, but what they are not teaching their members and those who are studying is that Jesus is the only way at this time to salvation and there is no other way.

You must be part of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses to survive.

This is what I was taught from the platform many times throughout my life in the organization.

Here is a clip from the Watchtower that I got of the net from the JW reform site to back up what I'm saying here. http://www.jwreform.org/idolatry.html

"Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it."(Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12)

Guess which organization they are talking about?

There are no prizes for this guess.


Now it is true that this is only one paragraph and there was more information in this article than this, but this statement does not seem to include Jesus Christ as the way to salvation and everlasting life and there are quite a few statements like this in the past in Watchtower literature, that are trying to impress on the minds of it's readers, that salvation and the organization is inseparable.

Now the statement of the great crowd surviving the great tribulation talks about those that have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, but no reference to any special group of people or organization etc.

Anything else added to this scripture in my opinion is pure conjecture.

It simply says the "great crowd" or as some other Bibles translate it as the "great multitude" have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb and are waving palm branches.

(Revelation 7) [LITV]
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches.
10 And they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.

In 1985 the Watchtower Society changed the baptism vows to reflect that understanding, that you need to be associated with Jehovah's Witnesses to be saved.

(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

Now some would say to me, what is the big deal about this?

Well the early Christians were baptized as ones who identified themselves with Christ.

This was why they were called Christians. (Followers of Christ)

But the underlying reason for this change of vows was because of litigation from members that might be disfellowshiped from the congregation.

As a person has agreed that he is identifying with a particular organization then that person is more than ever obligated to abide by it's doctrines and it's policies without question.

It is the same when you join a company or corporate organization, when you are employed by them you agree to abide by their rules and policies, to go against there rules and policies could see you fired from your job, and with no real cause to sue them, because you broke their rules or spoke up about their policies.

If you are a whistle-blower, you most likely would also get fired from your job, because you are not perceived to being loyal to that company.

Anyway this does not leave much room really for any litigation as a result of one being disfellowshiped.

This is my understanding of it anyway.

In the 1980s there was a inquisition going on in regards to those who did not agree with Watchtower doctrine at that time, particularly the ones to do with 1914.

Ray Franz a member of the governing body and the writing committee, was one of those who came under fire of this inquisition.

[SWORDOFJAH]

Jw'S teach that : Everlasting salvation is possible only through Christ’s ransom sacrifice. *** w00 6/1 p. 11 par. 6 Keep Your “Hope of Salvation” Bright! ***

Futureman posted this quote:"Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it."(Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12)

Let se another quote:*** w83 2/15 p. 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth—But How? ***

Jesus Christ identified a first requirement when he said in prayer to his Father: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ includes knowledge of God’s purposes regarding the earth and of Christ’s role as earth’s new King.

Also let see the whole quote:*** w83 2/15 p. 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth—But How? ***

A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization. God has always used an organization. For example, only those in the ark in Noah’s day survived the Flood, and only those associated with the Christian congregation in the first century had God’s favor. (Acts 4:12) Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

So we never substitue Jesus for the organization. Example:

*** w60 3/1 p. 135 What Is God’s Way to Salvation? ***

For a person to gain salvation God requires that he exercise faith in Him and Christ Jesus. A person cannot expect God’s favor when he refuses to exercise faith in the Father as a Savior and in the One whom the Father sent to make salvation possible.


We teach our bible studies the following:

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
The ransom is Jehovah’s means to deliver humankind from sin and death.—Ephesians 1:7.
Jehovah provided the ransom by sending his only-begotten Son to earth to die for us.—1 John 4:9, 10.
By means of the ransom, we gain the forgiveness of sins, a clean conscience, and the hope of everlasting life.—1 John 1:8, 9.
We show that we appreciate the ransom by getting to know more about Jehovah, by exercising faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, and by attending the Lord’s Evening Meal.—John 3:16.

[FutureMan]

Jw'S teach that : Everlasting salvation is possible only through Christ’s ransom sacrifice. *** w00 6/1 p. 11 par. 6 Keep Your “Hope of Salvation” Bright! ***

Futureman posted this quote:"Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it."(Watchtower, February 15, 1983, p. 12)

Let se another quote:*** w83 2/15 p. 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth—But How? ***

Jesus Christ identified a first requirement when he said in prayer to his Father: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ includes knowledge of God’s purposes regarding the earth and of Christ’s role as earth’s new King.

Also let see the whole quote:*** w83 2/15 p. 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth—But How? ***

A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization. God has always used an organization. For example, only those in the ark in Noah’s day survived the Flood, and only those associated with the Christian congregation in the first century had God’s favor. (Acts 4:12) Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

So we never substitue Jesus for the organization. Example:

*** w60 3/1 p. 135 What Is God’s Way to Salvation? ***

For a person to gain salvation God requires that he exercise faith in Him and Christ Jesus. A person cannot expect God’s favor when he refuses to exercise faith in the Father as a Savior and in the One whom the Father sent to make salvation possible.


We teach our bible studies the following:

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
The ransom is Jehovah’s means to deliver humankind from sin and death.—Ephesians 1:7.
Jehovah provided the ransom by sending his only-begotten Son to earth to die for us.—1 John 4:9, 10.
By means of the ransom, we gain the forgiveness of sins, a clean conscience, and the hope of everlasting life.—1 John 1:8, 9.
We show that we appreciate the ransom by getting to know more about Jehovah, by exercising faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, and by attending the Lord’s Evening Meal.—John 3:16.

Down through the last 2000 years Christians religions such as the Roman Catholics have taught that Christ is central to our salvation, but also that you must exclusively be part of their Religion or Church to be saved and to enforce this in their members they have used fear of punishment to instill in their members.

With the Catholic church it is "eternal torment in hell"

With Jehovah's Witnesses and other Christian religions it is the destruction at Armageddon and eternal cutting of.

Things have not changed.

As brother Rutherford had stated and I'll say it again on this forum loud and clear for all to read.

"Religion is a snare and a racket"

[SWORDOFJAH]

Down through the last 2000 years Christians religions such as the Roman Catholics have taught that Christ is central to our salvation, but also that you must exclusively be part of their Religion or Church to be saved and to enforce this in their members they have used fear of punishment to instill in their members.

With the Catholic church it is "eternal torment in hell"

With Jehovah's Witnesses and other Christian religions it is the destruction at Armageddon and eternal cutting of.

Things have not changed.

As brother Rutherford had stated and I'll say it again on this forum loud and clear for all to read.

"Religion is a snare and a racket"


My friend I will quote a talk by by Theodore Jaracz of the Governing Body. Brother Jaracz remarked that while there are thousands of organizations and societies in the world, only one of all these does not originate with the world. How to identify the one that represents Jehovah? God’s Word provides the identifying marks. The Bible shows that his heavenly creation is highly organized. (Psalm 103:20,*21; Isaiah 40:26) Jehovah’s earthly organization is also identifiable by its orderliness as well as by its separateness from the world, its strict adherence to Bible principles, its high level of moral cleanness, and the love among its members.

JW'S serve together in unity as Jehovah’s earthly organization.

[FutureMan]

My friend I will quote a talk by by Theodore Jaracz of the Governing Body. Brother Jaracz remarked that while there are thousands of organizations and societies in the world, only one of all these does not originate with the world. How to identify the one that represents Jehovah? God’s Word provides the identifying marks. The Bible shows that his heavenly creation is highly organized. (Psalm 103:20,*21; Isaiah 40:26) Jehovah’s earthly organization is also identifiable by its orderliness as well as by its separateness from the world, its strict adherence to Bible principles, its high level of moral cleanness, and the love among its members.

JW'S serve together in unity as Jehovah’s earthly organization.

You quote what Theodore Jaracz of the Governing Body said yet you do not give heed to a previous president of the Watchtower Society, of what he said.

And the one who was basically the first recognized president of the Watchtower Society, what he said under influence of the Holy Spirit is largely ignored.

Now having said that I will come to you here as a registered member of this forum which is one of the forums that the Watchtower Socety has warned it's members against.

Also I do believe that if the elders find out that any Witness is on this forum, they are asked to resign or be disfellowshiped.

You dear sir as it appears to me, are a hypocrite in your defense of the Watchtower Society, which is all very clear to us on this forum, well their is no doubt in my mind anyway.

So I'll ask you this question for all to read.

Are you on this forum to search for the "truth" or are you here to changed the status of this forum so as to make sure that the information is always positive as regards the organization?

Really as an acknowledged supporter of the Watchtower Society what really is your purpose on this forum?

Why are you not being obedient to your much beloved Watchtower Society?

Tell me in simple words, for I'm confused as to you being here.

[Juan23]

My friend I will quote a talk by by Theodore Jaracz of the Governing Body. Brother Jaracz remarked that while there are thousands of organizations and societies in the world, only one of all these does not originate with the world. How to identify the one that represents Jehovah? God’s Word provides the identifying marks. The Bible shows that his heavenly creation is highly organized. (Psalm 103:20,*21; Isaiah 40:26) Jehovah’s earthly organization is also identifiable by its orderliness as well as by its separateness from the world, its strict adherence to Bible principles, its high level of moral cleanness, and the love among its members.

JW'S serve together in unity as Jehovah’s earthly organization.

Hi SOJ,

I too believe that the JWs are God’s people like the Jews of Jesus day. But because of the evils committed by the leaders of the Jewish religion that religion was rejected and God’s favor transferred to the followers of Christ.
Today I believe that faithful Christians are among JWs. But it also seem that agents of Satan have infiltrated the society so that the mischief they have started are becoming visible to us. For this reason the bible says that judgment will start with God’s people (JWs).

You portray JWs as pristine and pure and that is where my opinion differs from yours.

Juan

[shikinah]

Hi SOJ,

I too believe that the JWs are God’s people like the Jews of Jesus day. But because of the evils committed by the leaders of the Jewish religion that religion was rejected and God’s favor transferred to the followers of Christ.
Today I believe that faithful Christians are among JWs. But it also seem that agents of Satan have infiltrated the society so that the mischief they have started are becoming visible to us. For this reason the bible says that judgment will start with God’s people (JWs).

You portray JWs as pristine and pure and that is where my opinion differs from yours.

Juan

I tend to agree with you brother, theres no doubt in my mind that the Watchtower has been used by Jehovah to gather his people, but as it was with the Israelites they were a stiff neck people, self righteous and hauty, obviously there was and is honest hearted lovers of righteousness, but as the Israelites were left to wonder in the wilderness, this seems to depict Jehovahs people today. The Organisation seems to go around and around in circles searching for new light, but it will not be given them, so they will continue to grope in the dark, until christ spirit is poured out like it was in pentecost upon all sorts of flesh, hence their flip flopping on dates. But how will Jehovahs people respond to this out pouring if they do not recognise these signs or believe it is prophetic:confused:


Shikinah

[one white robe]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

Faithful JW

I assume that you are leaving because of a renewed dedication to the "Organization". If I am right all I can say is that its a shame and I am sorry that this is your choice.

At at time when we should be preparing for the new wineskins you have gone back to feed on a dead carcas.

The only organization sanctioned by Jehovah is that which he is about to create to do the final preaching work for 1260 days (Rev 11). Many will leave a dead Bethel to come into Jehovah's final provision. Soon the org will be no more but that which the Lord loves will come out into his true light.

You have decided to go go right into another chamber of Babylon the Great Whore. You have given the wicked one yet another victory.

I will pray for you that satan releases his grip on your mind.

Peace in the name of my master Yeshua and our God Jehovah.

OWR

[SWORDOFJAH]

Faithful JW

I assume that you are leaving because of a renewed dedication to the "Organization". If I am right all I can say is that its a shame and I am sorry that this is your choice.

At at time when we should be preparing for the new wineskins you have gone back to feed on a dead carcas.

The only organization sanctioned by Jehovah is that which he is about to create to do the final preaching work for 1260 days (Rev 11). Many will leave a dead Bethel to come into Jehovah's final provision. Soon the org will be no more but that which the Lord loves will come out into his true light.

You have decided to go go right into another chamber of Babylon the Great Whore. You have given the wicked one yet another victory.

I will pray for you that satan releases his grip on your mind.

Peace in the name of my master Yeshua and our God Jehovah.

OWR

JW'S dedicate their lives to Jehovah.After we gained accurate knowledge of Jehovah God and his purposes and of Jesus Christ and his role in those purposes, we made the personal decision to serve God with our whole heart, mind, soul, and strength. (Mark 8:34; 12:30; John 17:3)

[imjustaskin]

Faithful JW

I assume that you are leaving because of a renewed dedication to the "Organization". If I am right all I can say is that its a shame and I am sorry that this is your choice.

At at time when we should be preparing for the new wineskins you have gone back to feed on a dead carcas.

The only organization sanctioned by Jehovah is that which he is about to create to do the final preaching work for 1260 days (Rev 11). Many will leave a dead Bethel to come into Jehovah's final provision. Soon the org will be no more but that which the Lord loves will come out into his true light.

You have decided to go go right into another chamber of Babylon the Great Whore. You have given the wicked one yet another victory.

I will pray for you that satan releases his grip on your mind.

Peace in the name of my master Yeshua and our God Jehovah.

OWR

The assumption that others should follow what YOUR conscience dictates is the same assumption that is a destructive influence within the organization. I instead believe that our brother loves Jehovah and will serve him in the way that he thinks is best in all love and good conscience.

"For each of us will render an account for himself to Jehovah."

[one white robe]

JW'S dedicate their lives to Jehovah.After we gained accurate knowledge of Jehovah God and his purposes and of Jesus Christ and his role in those purposes, we made the personal decision to serve God with our whole heart, mind, soul, and strength. (Mark 8:34; 12:30; John 17:3)

Your response sounds so programmed as if you are reading from a script. You are confusing serving god with being part of an organization.

1914 is a teaching inspired by demons intended to deceive the elect. You are deceiving people and will pay a price for this. 1914 is no different than the lies of the Catholic church. If lying is how you choose to serve Jehovah then go right ahead. However be prepared for the judgement on her.

[one white robe]

The assumption that others should follow what YOUR conscience dictates is the same assumption that is a destructive influence within the organization. I instead believe that our brother loves Jehovah and will serve him in the way that he thinks is best in all love and good conscience.

"For each of us will render an account for himself to Jehovah."

If you want to go ahead and teach the demon inspired doctrine of 1914 and convince yourself that you are serving Jah...then you go right ahead and make yourself happy doing it. The devil obviously has your mind too. In your world you can not serve Jehovah unless you are part of an organization. Unfortunately Jehovah's organization will only last long enough to do the 1260 day preaching work. If you loved your brother you would stop him from going back into deatrh.

[Steadfast]

Unfortunately Jehovah's organization will only last long enough to do the 1260 day preaching work.

Dear One White Robe,

They won't even know what it is, and will probably fight against it. Watchtower teaches Matthew 24:14 is being fulfilled now.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Love,

Steadfast

[SWORDOFJAH]

Your response sounds so programmed as if you are reading from a script. You are confusing serving god with being part of an organization.

1914 is a teaching inspired by demons intended to deceive the elect. You are deceiving people and will pay a price for this. 1914 is no different than the lies of the Catholic church. If lying is how you choose to serve Jehovah then go right ahead. However be prepared for the judgement on her.

My response is what JW'S believe.We are dedicated to Jehovah. JW'S don't teach lies Christendom does.

[one white robe]

My response is what JW'S believe.We are dedicated to Jehovah. JW'S don't teach lies Christendom does.

I will make this my last comment as I don't believe in dead end discussions. If you believe 1914 is from God then you go teach it. If its from the devil then be prepared to pay the price.

Its dissapointing that you reply with generalities and scripted sentences. Try and start thinking.

I leave you with this question: How would you have served Jehovah before the WTBS was formed? Do you really believe that there would be 96 years between the fulfilment of Rev 11 and today. Right after Rev 11 is completed the end will be here.

Peace and I hope you don't go back. I am not politically correct like others who encourage your death. I will will tell you that you are going back to death. The WTBS was a counterfit from the Devil to siphon off the elect. Jah's organization will rise up for 1260 days only before the Lord's return.

Good luck..I can only wish you luck...you will need it.

OWR

OWR

[one white robe]

Dear One White Robe,

They won't even know what it is, and will probably fight against it. Watchtower teaches Matthew 24:14 is being fulfilled now.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Love,

Steadfast

Great hearing from you as usual Steadfast. The blind truly is leading the blind.

I agree with what you have said. I often though of it myself...the Organization fighting against the true witnesses of our God...Just amazing. This could only be scripted by the wicked one.

I look forward to meeting you during the grand 1260 day preaching work.

Peace in the name of our Master Yeshua and our God Jehovah

OWR

[elihu]

anyone heard of these people before
interesting

had trouble making the link so click on the link, then world to come videos, then in video titles "is the end near"

http://www.realtruth.org/wtc_

[Jahsdisciple]

Great hearing from you as usual Steadfast. The blind truly is leading the blind.


..and the arrogant and self righteous make their attitude abundantly clear.

Faithful JW...you do what you have to do. Funny thing about comments like the above is that they claim they are better than JWs,yet have the same attitude problems they critisize. They say that JWs are devil inspired yet show the same attitude satan does..and the self righteous pontificating pharisees.

They dont know how to get over their issues and so attack people like yourself who are trying to do the right thing.

Dont worry about them,what you do is between yourself and Jehovah and he knows you are trying your best. All the best !

[Marque100]

"The accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night..."

Satan must be the most annoying git imaginable.

[FutureMan]

My response is what JW'S believe.We are dedicated to Jehovah. JW'S don't teach lies Christendom does.

No lies? :confused:

(QUOTE)
As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized.... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old,...
J. F. Rutherford, Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, pp. 89, 90.


The 1925 millions message was not only a prophecy by Rutherford, but was THE GOSPEL mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:14 that was to be preached in all the world for a witness before the end came in 1925. They said:
We are glad to report that while in Athens arrangements were made for a wider distribution of the message of the kingdom, particularly the book entitled "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". We feel quite sure that it is the Lord's will that this message go to all the nations of Christendom as a final witness before the final end of the present order.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/millions.html (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/millions.html)

This is one of the Society's understanding that now has become a lie.

Because most of those that heard this message in 1925 are now dead.

The date of 1914 as the date the the kingdom was set up is also a lie as was the generation that would see 1914 and the sign, still be alive when the great tribulation comes.

The understanding of "this generation" has being changed that many times, that it is making my head spin.

The end being so close has being pronounced that many times to it's members and to those outside the organization that the boy who cried wolf syndrome is present.

Those faithful ones back there in 1914 who thought the end would come in their generation did not see the end. They died and perhaps disappointed.

Just consider now that if the Kingdom had really begun ruling over the earth, then already 96 years have past since that time making the length of Christ's reign as 1096 years, yes that's right nearly 10 percent more than what the Bible says would be the length of Christ reign.

Shall I go on with more lies, I can if you want me to.

[Steadfast]

Great hearing from you as usual Steadfast. The blind truly is leading the blind. I agree with what you have said. I often though of it myself...the Organization fighting against the true witnesses of our God...Just amazing. This could only be scripted by the wicked one.

How many, dear sister, have been 'killed' off by the Pharisees for daring to try and share the truth concerning the WT's abominable relationship with the United Nations, and their greedy 1914 power grab for crowns before Christ even returns for his bride!

It's good to hear from you OWR. I miss your insight and stand for truth.

Love,

Steadfast

[SWORDOFJAH]

No lies? :confused:

(QUOTE)
As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized.... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old,...
J. F. Rutherford, Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, pp. 89, 90.


The 1925 millions message was not only a prophecy by Rutherford, but was THE GOSPEL mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:14 that was to be preached in all the world for a witness before the end came in 1925. They said:
We are glad to report that while in Athens arrangements were made for a wider distribution of the message of the kingdom, particularly the book entitled "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". We feel quite sure that it is the Lord's will that this message go to all the nations of Christendom as a final witness before the final end of the present order.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/millions.html (http://www.seanet.com/%7Eraines/millions.html)

This is one of the Society's understanding that now has become a lie.

Because most of those that heard this message in 1925 are now dead.

The date of 1914 as the date the the kingdom was set up is also a lie as was the generation that would see 1914 and the sign, still be alive when the great tribulation comes.

The understanding of "this generation" has being changed that many times, that it is making my head spin.

The end being so close has being pronounced that many times to it's members and to those outside the organization that the boy who cried wolf syndrome is present.

Those faithful ones back there in 1914 who thought the end would come in their generation did not see the end. They died and perhaps disappointed.

Just consider now that if the Kingdom had really begun ruling over the earth, then already 96 years have past since that time making the length of Christ's reign as 1096 years, yes that's right nearly 10 percent more than what the Bible says would be the length of Christ reign.

Shall I go on with more lies, I can if you want me to.






You are confusing understanding with lies. That is why JW'S have corrected their understanding as scriptures have come clearer. If they intended to lie they just keep it,something JW'S have not done.

[Steadfast]

You are confusing understanding with lies. That is why JW'S have corrected their understanding as scriptures have come clearer. If they intended to lie they just keep it,something JW'S have not done.

SwordofJah,

I do hope you are joking. How many people have been disfellowshipped because they saw 'truth' before the WT did? How many are still cut off from their families because of their bigoted attitude and conduct?

Good grief man. Stop making excuses for their ungodly behavior. This isn't about truth, its about POWER.

Love,

Steadfast

[Nash]

Hi FJW,

I wish you the best in your future.

Nash

[panda]

All the best FJW, I hope you will have peace, and find a measure of stability. Always keep asking, always keep knocking, always keep seeking, and it will be opened to you. Matt 7:7

panda:)

[Nash]

This isn't about truth, its about POWER.

Hi Steadfast,

That quotation made my day.

Actually it made my month.

I'd like to respond further, but it's late here now. I'll see what I can do in a few days. Hope you're doing well.

Nash

[one white robe]

..and the arrogant and self righteous make their attitude abundantly clear.

Faithful JW...you do what you have to do. Funny thing about comments like the above is that they claim they are better than JWs,yet have the same attitude problems they critisize. They say that JWs are devil inspired yet show the same attitude satan does..and the self righteous pontificating pharisees.

They dont know how to get over their issues and so attack people like yourself who are trying to do the right thing.

Dont worry about them,what you do is between yourself and Jehovah and he knows you are trying your best. All the best !

I made my point using reasoning about an issue - 1914. You attack without any facts. I have no issues other that to see truth be told. 1914 is a lie and anyone who teaches it is a liar.

[one white robe]

..and the arrogant and self righteous make their attitude abundantly clear.

Faithful JW...you do what you have to do. Funny thing about comments like the above is that they claim they are better than JWs,yet have the same attitude problems they critisize. They say that JWs are devil inspired yet show the same attitude satan does..and the self righteous pontificating pharisees.

They dont know how to get over their issues and so attack people like yourself who are trying to do the right thing.

Dont worry about them,what you do is between yourself and Jehovah and he knows you are trying your best. All the best !

Just one further point. I try to keep my communications civil and mature. In you post you called me arrogant and that I think that I (and others) am better than JW's. There is no need for such words unless a person is incapable of expressing themselves in a mature intelligent manner. Your words are not only baseless but are no more than a immature reaction to a situation that requires reasoning.

[Eyes & Ears]

This is all so very sad. So very very very sad. It all sounds so juvenile and

outrageous.

A member wants to leave, returns to say good bye and gets whipped with words.

I've come and gone several times. I have learned so much from the members

of this board. But from time to time it gets pretty low.


For that reason and not to re-direct the thread from FJW, but I will not return

nor will I check in to see what anyone here is doing. I have had enough.

Again thank you all for your help. You all know who you are. May Jehovah

help you, direct you, re-direct when needed.


Also, this is not about returning to the org or getting totally invovled with

the org, etc. etc. But Jehovah does have a way of doing things

and he will when he is good and ready take care of cleaning these things

up. As I have said before we cannot speed up Jehovah's purpose or slow

it down. We can only do what he has asked us to do and be patient

with everything else, inside or outside the org. Jehovah's household

It's our personal business and choice if we stay in or out. Just as long

as we are not badgering others or becoming dogmatic trying to make

others accept our way of living/thinking on these matters.


This is about individual Freedom of choice, whether to stay on this board

inside the org or leave, etc. etc. I believe there are a few that come here just to

disrupt the flow of the forum and it is sickening. Absolutely sickening. Just stop it.

Some who visit here should really be ashamed of themselves.

Now, go ahead and tell me off if that is what you care to do. I won't see it because

I will not be back here for any reason PERIOD. Yes I am throwing out the

baby with the water regarding the activities here (so to speak). There are some

very loving and sincere members and there are others who like to cause

upset. I am not judging I am expressing what I feel has been happening for

awhile. This nonsense makes me feel like I am back in Junior high school. And no

I do not think I am Sister know it all either, nor do I think I am better here

than anyone else. You all know better than that. So don't even try it with me OK.

I am so ticked off I could scream.

Please stay focused on the important scriptural issues. Remember to

Love one another intensely that is the identifying mark of true lovers of

Jehovah and his son. Remember this is an internet board. It is not

the way to get through to Jehovah. My my my my my.


E & E


P.S. Jinnster I will miss your comments. Jahsdisciple behave yourself OKEY DONKEY. You too Gills. I will miss you all take care of yourselves.

With that note and also a pm to Robert. I ASK THAT MY ACCOUNT BE

CLOSED FOR GOOD.

THANK YOU WATCHMAN FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK.

[truthseeker]

This is all so very sad. So very very very sad. It all sounds so juvenile and

outrageous.

A member wants to leave, returns to say good bye and gets whipped with words.

I've come and gone several times. I have learned so much from the members

of this board. But from time to time it gets pretty low.


For that reason and not to re-direct the thread from FJW, but I will not return

nor will I check in to see what anyone here is doing. I have had enough.

Again thank you all for your help. You all know who you are. May Jehovah

help you, direct you, re-direct when needed.


Also, this is not about returning to the org or getting totally invovled with

the org, etc. etc. But Jehovah does have a way of doing things

and he will when he is good and ready take care of cleaning these things

up. As I have said before we cannot speed up Jehovah's purpose or slow

it down. We can only do what he has asked us to do and be patient

with everything else, inside or outside the org. Jehovah's household

It's our personal business and choice if we stay in or out. Just as long

as we are not badgering others or becoming dogmatic trying to make

others accept our way of living/thinking on these matters.


This is about individual Freedom of choice, whether to stay on this board

inside the org or leave, etc. etc. I believe there are a few that come here just to

disrupt the flow of the forum and it is sickening. Absolutely sickening. Just stop it.

Some who visit here should really be ashamed of themselves.

Now, go ahead and tell me off if that is what you care to do. I won't see it because

I will not be back here for any reason PERIOD. Yes I am throwing out the

baby with the water regarding the activities here (so to speak). There are some

very loving and sincere members and there are others who like to cause

upset. I am not judging I am expressing what I feel has been happening for

awhile. This nonsense makes me feel like I am back in Junior high school. And no

I do not think I am Sister know it all either, nor do I think I am better here

than anyone else. You all know better than that. So don't even try it with me OK.

I am so ticked off I could scream.

Please stay focused on the important scriptural issues. Remember to

Love one another intensely that is the identifying mark of true lovers of

Jehovah and his son. Remember this is an internet board. It is not

the way to get through to Jehovah. My my my my my.


E & E


P.S. Jinnster I will miss your comments. Jahsdisciple behave yourself OKEY DONKEY. You too Gills. I will miss you all take care of yourselves.

With that note and also a pm to Robert. I ASK THAT MY ACCOUNT BE

CLOSED FOR GOOD.

THANK YOU WATCHMAN FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK.


5

So, too, the tongue is a little member and yet makes great brags. Look! How little a fire it takes to set so great a woodland on fire! 6 Well, the tongue is a fire. The tongue is constituted a world of unrighteousness among our members, for it spots up all the body and sets the wheel of natural life aflame and it is set aflame by Ge·hen′na. 7 For every species of wild beast as well as bird and creeping thing and sea creature is to be tamed and has been tamed by humankind. 8 But the tongue, not one of mankind can get it tamed. An unruly injurious thing, it is full of death-dealing poison. 9 With it we bless Jehovah, even [the] Father, and yet with it we curse men who have come into existence “in the likeness of God.” 10 Out of the same mouth come forth blessing and cursing.

It is not proper, my brothers, for these things to go on occurring this way. 11 A fountain does not cause the sweet and the bitter to bubble out of the same opening, does it? 12 My brothers, a fig tree cannot produce olives or a vine figs, can it? Neither can salt water produce sweet water.
13


Who is wise and understanding among YOU? Let him show out of his fine conduct his works with a mildness that belongs to wisdom. 14 But if YOU have bitter jealousy and contentiousness in YOUR hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is [the] earthly, animal, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and contentiousness are, there disorder and every vile thing are.

17


But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, not making partial distinctions, not hypocritical. 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.

[watchman]

I think what we have here is a microcosm and preview of what is to eventually overtake the entire organization. Didn't Jesus foretell that many will be stumbled and hate one another? Jesus was not talking about unbelievers. No, he was foretelling the breakup of the organization. You can see how it will happen by what is happening here on the board between the Society loyalists and those who are no longer in the Org.

Presently the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are unaffected by the controversies that rage on forums like this, but that is all about to change. As it stands the Society can use their power to enforce acceptance of their 1914 doctrine. But what will happen when Christ actually arrives to begin the inspection of the house of God? Opps! Wasn't that supposed to have taken place back in 1918? So, all of Jehovah's Witnesses are going to be plunged into confusion and chaos, being completely bewildered as to how the Society could have been so wrong on something as vital as the parousia. Can you imagine how the Society loyalists will explain the collapse of the Watchtower?

So, let's don't rip each other up here. My hope is that JW's that are familiar with the issues that we discuss might someday serve to mitigate some of the carnage during the day of fire. Folks like FaithfulJW might not accept my view now, in fact, in a private message FJW said he considered me to be an apostate, yet, when things go down in the manner I have described, the thousands of faithful JW's who are aware of my work but who presently consider me an apostate, might have the lightbulb in their heads finally turn on for them then. That's my hope at least.

watchman

[shikinah]

I will make this my last comment as I don't believe in dead end discussions. If you believe 1914 is from God then you go teach it. If its from the devil then be prepared to pay the price.

Its dissapointing that you reply with generalities and scripted sentences. Try and start thinking.

I leave you with this question: How would you have served Jehovah before the WTBS was formed? Do you really believe that there would be 96 years between the fulfilment of Rev 11 and today. Right after Rev 11 is completed the end will be here.

Peace and I hope you don't go back. I am not politically correct like others who encourage your death. I will will tell you that you are going back to death. The WTBS was a counterfit from the Devil to siphon off the elect. Jah's organization will rise up for 1260 days only before the Lord's return.

Good luck..I can only wish you luck...you will need it.

OWR

OWR

I have to say OWR, I have often wondered if the organisation was a ploy to siphon off the elect also, especially when I started to find articles mentioning how Russell and Rutherford was in support of Zionism, and was full of praises for the first Jewish priminister Benjamin Disraeli, saying he was appointed by God.
I thought they were suppose to be no part of the world:confused:
I guess despite their intentions Jehovah has used it to his purpose, it reminds me a bit like a game of chess, except Jehovah knows he's already won, despite what ever tacticts satan tries to use.

Shikinah

[shikinah]

I think what we have here is a microcosm and preview of what is to eventually overtake the entire organization. Didn't Jesus foretell that many will be stumbled and hate one another? Jesus was not talking about unbelievers. No, he was foretelling the breakup of the organization. You can see how it will happen by what is happening here on the board between the Society loyalists and those who are no longer in the Org.

Presently the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are unaffected by the controversies that rage on forums like this, but that is all about to change. As it stands the Society can use their power to enforce acceptance of their 1914 doctrine. But what will happen when Christ actually arrives to begin the inspection of the house of God? Opps! Wasn't that supposed to have taken place back in 1918? So, all of Jehovah's Witnesses are going to be plunged into confusion and chaos, being completely bewildered as to how the Society could have been so wrong on something as vital as the parousia. Can you imagine how the Society loyalists will explain the collapse of the Watchtower?

So, let's don't rip each other up here. My hope is that JW's that are familiar with the issues that we discuss might someday serve to mitigate some of the carnage during the day of fire. Folks like FaithfulJW might not accept my view now, in fact, in a private message FJW said he considered me to be an apostate, yet, when things go down in the manner I have described, the thousands of faithful JW's who are aware of my work but who presently consider me an apostate, might have the lightbulb in their heads finally turn on for them then. That's my hope at least.

watchman

I think you hit the nail on the head, this really is a sign of things to come, people not knowing the way out. Even amongst the JW's I talk to, im told some are spending and becoming more materialistic than ever, that talks are constantly given on this subject, while others tell me Armageddon could come tomorrow, why such a mix of views and behaviours if there is a spiritual paradise?
The truth is they really dont know what lays ahead, how much confidence can you have when the society changes its opinion on dates and yearly remnant numbers rising. The truth is a frightening thing sometimes and all this is just part of prophesy, but despite satans tactics we should be comforting and up building one another as we see these things starting to occur. Its very sad to see what I felt were family members leave, but I pray the society will be able to provide you with the substance you once searched for upon finding this board.


Shikinah

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

One of the biggest mistakes WT made was setting up themselves as exclusive keepers of truth. They condemned the rest of Christianity as a bunch of apostates when they now sit in that chair themselves.

When Christ actually does take up his heavenly throne to judge the temple, he will also be looking through the rest of Christianity. Personally, I have encountered many fine Christians, who reject trinity, hellfire, and immortal soul; who also believe in a paradise earth; who see New Jerusalem as a literal city coming down from heaven to earth, where Christ and his bride will rule for 1000 years.

Are JWs so arrogant to think they can judge before Christ does? Christianity is the entire pie..warts and all. Please read about the seven congregations in Revelation. Jesus keeps admonishing the 'congregations' to repent. He is still doing that.

When the ax starts to fall, it will affect all denominations, but it will be far more difficult on those who have allowed themselves to be controlled and blinded by their own religious leaders. They have sacrificed their God-given right to examine not only what they believe, but their right to examine their religious leaders for defects as well.

Paul warned us in 2 Thessalonians 2. In the end, it is our decision and our choice that affects our future. If we don't want to be swept away in the delusion, we need to pray for better eyesight.

Love,

Steadfast

[SlaveForJah]

Don't go E&E! We need your input and love here. You are a pillar here. And you aren't here just for us, or to referee the bickering here. You are here for all the lurkers who need a loving and experienced voice, one that knows first hand how to follow Christ's lead and build faith in Jah. One who can help point others in the right direction, with a balanced view. That's what you were for me before I ever joined this board. You were one of the main reasons I decided to become a member here. Please reconsider.

May Jehovah, the God of All Comfort bless you and keep you safe.


Agape

SlaveForJah

[watchman]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

One of the biggest mistakes WT made was setting up themselves as exclusive keepers of truth. They condemned the rest of Christianity as a bunch of apostates when they now sit in that chair themselves.

When Christ actually does take up his heavenly throne to judge the temple, he will also be looking through the rest of Christianity. Personally, I have encountered many fine Christians, who reject trinity, hellfire, and immortal soul; who also believe in a paradise earth; who see New Jerusalem as a literal city coming down from heaven to earth, where Christ and his bride will rule for 1000 years.

Are JWs so arrogant to think they can judge before Christ does? Christianity is the entire pie..warts and all. Please read about the seven congregations in Revelation. Jesus keeps admonishing the 'congregations' to repent. He is still doing that.

When the ax starts to fall, it will affect all denominations, but it will be far more difficult on those who have allowed themselves to be controlled and blinded by their own religious leaders. They have sacrificed their God-given right to examine not only what they believe, but their right to examine their religious leaders for defects as well.

Paul warned us in 2 Thessalonians 2. In the end, it is our decision and our choice that affects our future. If we don't want to be swept away in the delusion, we need to pray for better eyesight.

Love,

Steadfast

Can't agree with you sister on a number of points.

First, the WT has every right to act as keepers of the truth. The challenge is actually keeping the truth. That was the function of the 1st century congregation. It was a pillar and support of the truth and the apostles and other older men served as a governing body to make sure that what they taught was the truth. Even at that, though, they were not always successful. Look at the Corinthian congregation. They had these guys presiding over them whom Paul called the "superfine apostles," who were actually agents of Satan. Yet the Corinthians accepted them as the genuine apostles and looked down on Paul. But many of the Corinthians were God's people.

What is the alternative? Look at some of the nonsense that XJW's believe. The fact is, it is virtually impossible to be keepers of the truth as long as Satan is on the loose. He has slithered his way into every group of people whom God has ever recognized.

Second, Christ is coming to judge a singular household of slaves. Both faithful and unfaithful slaves are employed in the same household. All of the prophecies speak to a singular organization that God is going to judge - an organization that has profaned the name of Jehovah. In other words, all of the true anointed are in the same organization prior to the coming of Christ.

Third, Christendom and the churches are not going down with the Watchtower. The prophecies are pretty clear that Jehovah intends to put his blind and boastful servants through a humiliating ordeal. Going down before Christendom will do that rather effectively.

[Nash]

This thread (and others) illustrates quite well why many perceive (and quite rightly so) that the WTS is a cult. Who are we kidding here?

Based on the experiences that I've had, which are similar to many others' experiences which I've read on numerous boards, it's utterly futile to reason with a Jehovah's Witness who is loyal to the Society. In their mind, Jehovah is using them and obedience is required. Of course, as the enlighted know, this is based on a false premise/assumption and is incorrect for many reasons.

The situation which I went through taught me a great deal about how the Society and their followers function. In spite of the fact that it is crystal clear that there are individuals who were doing things wrong, they made excuses for their bad behaviour and rationalized all their actions, and continue to do so today.

Reasoning with SwordofJah (SOJ) is like reasoning with a robot. (I'm still waiting for a refutation on the 1975 issue, by the way, SOJ. Did you ever look at the link I posted, which clearly indicated that the Society stated that the door would be closed by 1975?) A robot can only regurgitate what has been programmed into it, but isn't really capable of going beyond.

Most times a question is asked of SOJ, SOJ usually refers to a Watchtower article. In SOJ's mind, the Watchtower must be correct. Naturally, we know that the Watchtower takes scriptures out of context and is guilty of presumptuous prophetic speculation and questionable doctrinal interpretation, but to the mind of a Jehovah's Witness loyal to the Society, questioning is not allowed. Actually, questioning is allowed, but questioning the answers given is not. So, in substance, questioning is not allowed.

SOJ - you stated to FutureMan that he is "confusing understanding with lies." It is you who is confused, not FutureMan. You are confusing understanding with truth, and truth with opinion.

No one can argue with truth. Truth doesn't change, by its very nature. For example, 2+2=4. World War II ended in 1945. Our earth circles the sun, and not vice versa. These are undeniable.

The fact that the Watchtower has had to update its understanding - by your own admission - proves that the Watchtower doesn't teach truth. It teaches its current opinion and passes it off as truth - present truth, which is subject to change. Since what is being taught is the opinion of men, more specifically the Governing Body, you are not really following the words of Jehovah. Never in the bible was something taught and later revised. A teaching was built upon, perhaps, rarely, but there were never any complete changes - at least none that I can see. (If any of Jehovah's spokespeople were teaching error, they were promptly punished, especially in the early years (Moses, for example). There was no waiting period. "Waiting on Jehovah" didn't exist. What Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body have done today is abuse the name of Jehovah by doing bad things and then telling the innocent and those who have been hurt by their bad policies to "wait on Jehovah." In other words, they are excusing themselves, just like their forefathers, the Pharisees.

To make matters worse, if one doesn't accept what the Governing body teaches, there are repercussions. I know, because I'm living through it now, so if anybody doesn't believe me I know that they don't know what they are talking about. Years ago I had mentioned to someone that the Governing Body could be wrong, and very shortly after I lost almost all of my 'privileges.' This is the essence of cultlike behaviour. Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that they can't openly voice an opinion contrary to what the Governing Body teaches (or what is taught in the Watchtower or other publications) is seriously deluded and/or on cocaine.

In fact, the meetings are like drugs. After I left for the second time a few years ago, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. At the time I had been subjected to abuse and harassment at the hands of a subset of elders and others, which woke me up, but what I came to realize later was that most people want the drugs. They don't want their world shattered. I say now that probably one of the only ways that a Society-loyal Jehovah's Witness can come out of his/her stupor is if something bad happens to them, or if something triggers the critical thinking thought-process. I am not talking about trivialities, but something along the lines of abuse, injustice, favouritism, questioning the validity of 1914, and the like. Otherwise, they will say the same things over and over again to justify that their world is sound.

For example:

a) "Robert [or, whoever] is an apostate." First off, Jehovah's Witnesses have changed the meaning of the word apostate to suit themselves. So this is an incorrect assumption. But because they've never questioned what the word means, their whole pattern of reasoning is wrong. Heretic would actually be a more appropriate word, but the bible doesn't punish heresy. In fact, history abounds with heretics who turned out to be right.

b) "Leave it to Jehovah." This is an abuse on the name of Jehovah and breaks the third commandment. This is said when the elders mess something up, or when they are too stupid to deal with something properly, or they are too afraid to deal with something, or when they are doing things behind your back to trick you into believing that they have God's spirit. I've seen all this, already.

c) "We're imperfect." This is another way that Jehovah's Witnesses justify the wrongs that they do. [B]Everyone is imperfect. Not everyone covers up child abuse and issues gag orders on the victims, slanders their brother, commits fornication, lies to people consistently, and shames them into believing things that they know to be wrong.

These are just three examples, but I can state many more.

Of course, at the end of the day, as Robert states, when Jesus does come, Jehovah's Witnesses who are loyal to the Society will have no choice but to adapt. When the organization is destroyed and some elders are punished because they've conspired with Satan, many will finally realize that they've been duped all along, and their words will be a reminder of how obstinate they were, as we were once too. Of course, we have good intentions, unlike the Governing Body. In the meantime, my approach (generally) is to conserve energy and concentrate on the things more important, because the only person who will be able to convince SwordofJah is SwordofJah. They have to take it upon themselves to believe. We can't force them, can we? That would make us no better than the Governing Body.

Nash

[Eyes & Ears]

[QUOTE=watchman;43852]I think what we have here is a microcosm and preview of what is to eventually overtake the entire organization. Didn't Jesus foretell that many will be stumbled and hate one another? Jesus was not talking about unbelievers. No, he was foretelling the breakup of the organization. You can see how it will happen by what is happening here on the board between the Society loyalists and those who are no longer in the Org.

E & E: (HMMMMMMM, PERHAPS I NEED TO GO IN THE FIGHTERS CORNER AND DRINK SOME GATOR ADE FOR A COUPLE DAYS) GOOD REMINDER WATCHMAN, THANKS. BUT I AM STILL TICKED OFF. I GUESS I WILL GET OVER IT.

Presently the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are unaffected by the controversies that rage on forums like this, but that is all about to change. As it stands the Society can use their power to enforce acceptance of their 1914 doctrine. But what will happen when Christ actually arrives to begin the inspection of the house of God? Opps! Wasn't that supposed to have taken place back in 1918? So, all of Jehovah's Witnesses are going to be plunged into confusion and chaos, being completely bewildered as to how the Society could have been so wrong on something as vital as the parousia. Can you imagine how the Society loyalists will explain the collapse of the Watchtower?

E & E: NO I DON'T WANT TO IMAGINE THAT. I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT SHOCK OF FINDING OUT ALL WAS NOT WELL IN PARADISE :mad::mad: AND IT MAKES ME NUTS
NUTS NUTS I GET TICKED OFF WITH MYSELF AND WITH SOME OTHERS WHEN I HEAR
CERTAIN BUZZ WORDS. OK THE GATOR ADE AI N'T WORKING. PERHAPS SOME GINGER ALE.

GOTTA CALM DOWN, SO FRUSTRATED AND MAD. BUT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
WATCHMAN.

So, let's don't rip each other up here. My hope is that JW's that are familiar with the issues that we discuss might someday serve to mitigate some of the carnage during the day of fire. Folks like FaithfulJW might not accept my view now, in fact, in a private message FJW said he considered me to be an apostate, yet, when things go down in the manner I have described, the thousands of faithful JW's who are aware of my work but who presently consider me an apostate, might have the lightbulb in their heads finally turn on for them then. That's my hope at least.

E & E: ALL RIGHTEY THEN YOU LITTLE STINKO'S AS WATCHMAN SAYS LETS STOP THIS BICKERING I'M TOO OLD TO BE GOING THROUGH THIS STUFF. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR MY PRESSURE, I MIGHT POP A CORK OR SOMETHING.

BUT I STILL SAY THERE IS A WAY TO TALK TO EACH OTHER THAT DOES NOT ATTACK OR SOUND
DOGMATIC.

OK GOING BACK TO MY CORNER NOW TO PUNCH ON MY PUNCH PILLOW AND KICK THE CHAIR.

APOSTATE INDEED. TOO MUCH EXCITEMENT FOR MY OLD MIND. I GOTTA CONTROL MYSELF AND

NOT GET ALL WORKED UP. MAN IF I CANNOT CONTROL MYSELF NOW, WHAT IN THE WORLD WILL

I DO WHEN STUFF GETS REALLY HOT. TEMPER TEMPER. PHEW I HAVE NOT BEEN THIS TICKED

IN A LONG TIME. GOOD THING I DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL. I SURE WOULD HAVE DOWNED A FEW

BY NOW.:mad:


E & E

[watchman]

Hi E&E

You're back! I knew you couldn't stay away. :)

watchman

[SWORDOFJAH]

Hello Nash. First JW'S are loyal to Jehovah and his words. JW'S dedicated to serve and do Jehovah's will.JW'S are not follower of the WT aka the legal entity. Second the 1975 issue was clarify as the evidence showed that the brothers never predicted the end of this system by that date.Third the brothers have recognized that they search the truth and as they have a clear picture of the developments they have make this clear. Understanding some things and lying are two different things my friend. Jw'S claimed no supernatural power, no divine revelations. JW'S try to what is stated in God’s Word.When changes are needed they are needed. As for an example we have stated:

*** jv chap. 33 p. 713 Continuing to Keep on the Watch ***

As a worldwide congregation, they have “the full assurance of their understanding.” (Col. 2:2) It is not that they feel that they understand every detail of Jehovah’s purposes. They keep searching the Scriptures with an open mind, and they keep learning. But what they learn does not change their basic viewpoint regarding the fundamental truths of God’s Word.

So no other religion entity has the knowledge of Jehovah and his purposes like his servants the JW'S. JW'S are the ones who continued to keep on the watch, the ones who zealously proclaimed God’s Kingdom!

[shikinah]

[QUOTE=watchman;43852]I think what we have here is a microcosm and preview of what is to eventually overtake the entire organization. Didn't Jesus foretell that many will be stumbled and hate one another? Jesus was not talking about unbelievers. No, he was foretelling the breakup of the organization. You can see how it will happen by what is happening here on the board between the Society loyalists and those who are no longer in the Org.

E & E: (HMMMMMMM, PERHAPS I NEED TO GO IN THE FIGHTERS CORNER AND DRINK SOME GATOR ADE FOR A COUPLE DAYS) GOOD REMINDER WATCHMAN, THANKS. BUT I AM STILL TICKED OFF. I GUESS I WILL GET OVER IT.

Presently the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are unaffected by the controversies that rage on forums like this, but that is all about to change. As it stands the Society can use their power to enforce acceptance of their 1914 doctrine. But what will happen when Christ actually arrives to begin the inspection of the house of God? Opps! Wasn't that supposed to have taken place back in 1918? So, all of Jehovah's Witnesses are going to be plunged into confusion and chaos, being completely bewildered as to how the Society could have been so wrong on something as vital as the parousia. Can you imagine how the Society loyalists will explain the collapse of the Watchtower?

E & E: NO I DON'T WANT TO IMAGINE THAT. I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT SHOCK OF FINDING OUT ALL WAS NOT WELL IN PARADISE :mad::mad: AND IT MAKES ME NUTS
NUTS NUTS I GET TICKED OFF WITH MYSELF AND WITH SOME OTHERS WHEN I HEAR
CERTAIN BUZZ WORDS. OK THE GATOR ADE AI N'T WORKING. PERHAPS SOME GINGER ALE.

GOTTA CALM DOWN, SO FRUSTRATED AND MAD. BUT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
WATCHMAN.

So, let's don't rip each other up here. My hope is that JW's that are familiar with the issues that we discuss might someday serve to mitigate some of the carnage during the day of fire. Folks like FaithfulJW might not accept my view now, in fact, in a private message FJW said he considered me to be an apostate, yet, when things go down in the manner I have described, the thousands of faithful JW's who are aware of my work but who presently consider me an apostate, might have the lightbulb in their heads finally turn on for them then. That's my hope at least.

E & E: ALL RIGHTEY THEN YOU LITTLE STINKO'S AS WATCHMAN SAYS LETS STOP THIS BICKERING I'M TOO OLD TO BE GOING THROUGH THIS STUFF. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR MY PRESSURE, I MIGHT POP A CORK OR SOMETHING.

BUT I STILL SAY THERE IS A WAY TO TALK TO EACH OTHER THAT DOES NOT ATTACK OR SOUND
DOGMATIC.

OK GOING BACK TO MY CORNER NOW TO PUNCH ON MY PUNCH PILLOW AND KICK THE CHAIR.

APOSTATE INDEED. TOO MUCH EXCITEMENT FOR MY OLD MIND. I GOTTA CONTROL MYSELF AND

NOT GET ALL WORKED UP. MAN IF I CANNOT CONTROL MYSELF NOW, WHAT IN THE WORLD WILL

I DO WHEN STUFF GETS REALLY HOT. TEMPER TEMPER. PHEW I HAVE NOT BEEN THIS TICKED

IN A LONG TIME. GOOD THING I DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL. I SURE WOULD HAVE DOWNED A FEW

BY NOW.:mad:


E & E

Hey E&E forget the punch bag, a brown paper bag is good for hyperventilating http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/mutley-ani1.gif


Love
Shikinah

[Eyes & Ears]

[QUOTE=Eyes & Ears;43868]

Hey E&E forget the punch bag, a brown paper bag is good for hyperventilating http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/mutley-ani1.gif


Love
Shikinah


Thanks Shikinah. I'll be OK, gotta stop letting STUFF bug me and stay focused on what's important

like I tell everybody else.:):D. Your doggie needs braces (LOL)


With Love
A wound up, but winding down E & E

[Steadfast]

Can't agree with you sister on a number of points.

First, the WT has every right to act as keepers of the truth. The challenge is actually keeping the truth. That was the function of the 1st century congregation. It was a pillar and support of the truth and the apostles and other older men served as a governing body to make sure that what they taught was the truth. Even at that, though, they were not always successful. Look at the Corinthian congregation. They had these guys presiding over them whom Paul called the "superfine apostles," who were actually agents of Satan. Yet the Corinthians accepted them as the genuine apostles and looked down on Paul. But many of the Corinthians were God's people.

What is the alternative? Look at some of the nonsense that XJW's believe. The fact is, it is virtually impossible to be keepers of the truth as long as Satan is on the loose. He has slithered his way into every group of people whom God has ever recognized.

Second, Christ is coming to judge a singular household of slaves. Both faithful and unfaithful slaves are employed in the same household. All of the prophecies speak to a singular organization that God is going to judge - an organization that has profaned the name of Jehovah. In other words, all of the true anointed are in the same organization prior to the coming of Christ.

Third, Christendom and the churches are not going down with the Watchtower. The prophecies are pretty clear that Jehovah intends to put his blind and boastful servants through a humiliating ordeal. Going down before Christendom will do that rather effectively.

Robert,

I'm sorry to see you are still stuck in your tunnel vision. That's what keeps good people enslaved in the organization.

Love,

Steadfast

[shikinah]

At least its off your chest, its more harm in than out and yes he definately does :D

[watchman]

Robert,

I'm sorry to see you are still stuck in your tunnel vision. That's what keeps good people enslaved in the organization.

Love,

Steadfast

I am so happy that you have clear vision and are no longer blind. How wonderful that you have been set free from enslavement. Meanwhile, the rest of us poor blinded slaves have to wait for a Savior. Hope to see you waiting for us on the other side.

watchman

[Steadfast]

This thread (and others) illustrates quite well why many perceive (and quite rightly so) that the WTS is a cult. Who are we kidding here?

Based on the experiences that I've had, which are similar to many others' experiences which I've read on numerous boards, it's utterly futile to reason with a Jehovah's Witness who is loyal to the Society. In their mind, Jehovah is using them and obedience is required. Of course, as the enlighted know, this is based on a false premise/assumption and is incorrect for many reasons.

The situation which I went through taught me a great deal about how the Society and their followers function. In spite of the fact that it is crystal clear that there are individuals who were doing things wrong, they made excuses for their bad behaviour and rationalized all their actions, and continue to do so today.

Reasoning with SwordofJah (SOJ) is like reasoning with a robot. (I'm still waiting for a refutation on the 1975 issue, by the way, SOJ. Did you ever look at the link I posted, which clearly indicated that the Society stated that the door would be closed by 1975?) A robot can only regurgitate what has been programmed into it, but isn't really capable of going beyond.

Most times a question is asked of SOJ, SOJ usually refers to a Watchtower article. In SOJ's mind, the Watchtower must be correct. Naturally, we know that the Watchtower takes scriptures out of context and is guilty of presumptuous prophetic speculation and questionable doctrinal interpretation, but to the mind of a Jehovah's Witness loyal to the Society, questioning is not allowed. Actually, questioning is allowed, but questioning the answers given is not. So, in substance, questioning is not allowed.

SOJ - you stated to FutureMan that he is "confusing understanding with lies." It is you who is confused, not FutureMan. You are confusing understanding with truth, and truth with opinion.

No one can argue with truth. Truth doesn't change, by its very nature. For example, 2+2=4. World War II ended in 1945. Our earth circles the sun, and not vice versa. These are undeniable.

The fact that the Watchtower has had to update its understanding - by your own admission - proves that the Watchtower doesn't teach truth. It teaches its current opinion and passes it off as truth - present truth, which is subject to change. Since what is being taught is the opinion of men, more specifically the Governing Body, you are not really following the words of Jehovah. Never in the bible was something taught and later revised. A teaching was built upon, perhaps, rarely, but there were never any complete changes - at least none that I can see. (If any of Jehovah's spokespeople were teaching error, they were promptly punished, especially in the early years (Moses, for example). There was no waiting period. "Waiting on Jehovah" didn't exist. What Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body have done today is abuse the name of Jehovah by doing bad things and then telling the innocent and those who have been hurt by their bad policies to "wait on Jehovah." In other words, they are excusing themselves, just like their forefathers, the Pharisees.

To make matters worse, if one doesn't accept what the Governing body teaches, there are repercussions. I know, because I'm living through it now, so if anybody doesn't believe me I know that they don't know what they are talking about. Years ago I had mentioned to someone that the Governing Body could be wrong, and very shortly after I lost almost all of my 'privileges.' This is the essence of cultlike behaviour. Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that they can't openly voice an opinion contrary to what the Governing Body teaches (or what is taught in the Watchtower or other publications) is seriously deluded and/or on cocaine.

In fact, the meetings are like drugs. After I left for the second time a few years ago, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. At the time I had been subjected to abuse and harassment at the hands of a subset of elders and others, which woke me up, but what I came to realize later was that most people want the drugs. They don't want their world shattered. I say now that probably one of the only ways that a Society-loyal Jehovah's Witness can come out of his/her stupor is if something bad happens to them, or if something triggers the critical thinking thought-process. I am not talking about trivialities, but something along the lines of abuse, injustice, favouritism, questioning the validity of 1914, and the like. Otherwise, they will say the same things over and over again to justify that their world is sound.

For example:

a) "Robert [or, whoever] is an apostate." First off, Jehovah's Witnesses have changed the meaning of the word apostate to suit themselves. So this is an incorrect assumption. But because they've never questioned what the word means, their whole pattern of reasoning is wrong. Heretic would actually be a more appropriate word, but the bible doesn't punish heresy. In fact, history abounds with heretics who turned out to be right.

b) "Leave it to Jehovah." This is an abuse on the name of Jehovah and breaks the third commandment. This is said when the elders mess something up, or when they are too stupid to deal with something properly, or they are too afraid to deal with something, or when they are doing things behind your back to trick you into believing that they have God's spirit. I've seen all this, already.

c) "We're imperfect." This is another way that Jehovah's Witnesses justify the wrongs that they do. [B]Everyone is imperfect. Not everyone covers up child abuse and issues gag orders on the victims, slanders their brother, commits fornication, lies to people consistently, and shames them into believing things that they know to be wrong.

These are just three examples, but I can state many more.

Of course, at the end of the day, as Robert states, when Jesus does come, Jehovah's Witnesses who are loyal to the Society will have no choice but to adapt. When the organization is destroyed and some elders are punished because they've conspired with Satan, many will finally realize that they've been duped all along, and their words will be a reminder of how obstinate they were, as we were once too. Of course, we have good intentions, unlike the Governing Body. In the meantime, my approach (generally) is to conserve energy and concentrate on the things more important, because the only person who will be able to convince SwordofJah is SwordofJah. They have to take it upon themselves to believe. We can't force them, can we? That would make us no better than the Governing Body.

Nash

Dear Brother Nash,

This is one awesome post. You get to the heart, the depth, and the corruption. Thinking 'outside the WT box' is the only salvation, for then Jehovah opens our eyes to see.

When Jesus preached in the first century, he preached to Pharisees, Saduccees, Herodians, etc., and no doubt countless other 'sects' of Judaism. While they all claimed to worship the same God Yahweh, they still had their divisions of belief among them. So it is with Christianity.

This claim of 'exclusivity' among JW's is smug, arrogant, and dangerous. Again, this is not about truth...its about POWER.

Love,

Steadfast

[Steadfast]

I am so happy that you have clear vision and are no longer blind. How wonderful that you have been set free from enslavement. Meanwhile, the rest of us poor blinded slaves have to wait for a Savior. Hope to see you waiting for us on the other side.

watchman

Dear Robert,

Maybe a little eye salve will help. You aren't helping people to grow by trying to keep them bound in slavery.

Love,

Steadfast

[panda]

Brother Nash you said everything I could not put into words personally, I agree whole heartedly. thankx! :)

Psalms 51:17) The sacrifices to God are a broken spirit. A heart broken and crushed, O God, you will not despise.

panda

[Gilligan]

Hi E&E
You're back! I knew you couldn't stay away. :)
watchman


"Ain't no sunshine when she's gone.
It's not warm when she's away.
Ain't no sunshine when she's gone
And she's always gone too long anytime she goes away,,,"http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi E&E

You're back! I knew you couldn't stay away. :)

watchman


Just having a stink day I guess. Thanks for those reminders Watchman, they snapped me

out of my funky twisted mood. I gotta get a handle on myself

Yes, I'm not going anywhere WHERE ELSE WILL I GO (LAUGHING, I KNOW WE ALL HEARD

THAT ONE BEFORE).:D

Later

E & E

[watchman]

Dear Robert,

Maybe a little eye salve will help. You aren't helping people to grow by trying to keep them bound in slavery.

Love,

Steadfast

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

[shikinah]

All of us I believe have met on this board for a reason, the reason being we prayed earnestly for truth despite what the truth may reveal. Yes we have now taken the Red pill and the truth will never be seen the same again, as we have been exposed to falshoods and enlightened by scriptures which has shone new light on what had already existed as truth. Jehovah never said the truth would be easy, and that carrying the torture stake wouldnt be a lonely journey, especially for those who are attending meetings right now, and have been trusted to keep a form of silence despite carrying out witness duties. With knowing the truth comes responsibility, to know where we came from and to where we are going, and to understand without the past there would be no present or future. Jehovah has an appointed time, and he will let us know in due season, but to totally desert the organisation or to prevent others from entering could be blood guilt upon our heads. There is still teaching to be done, and many still need to know the basic docterines of trinity, hell fire even Jehovahs name. If Jehovah has revealed this much to us, im sure he will alert us and guide us as he has up until now.

Shikinah

[noname]

8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “‘For the reason that YOU men have spoken untruth and YOU have visioned a lie, therefore here I am against YOU,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” 9 And my hand has come to be against the prophets that are visioning untruth and that are divining a lie. In the intimate group of my people they will not continue on, and in the register of the house of Israel they will not be written, and to the soil of Israel they will not come; and YOU people will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, 10 for the reason, yes, for the reason that they have led my people astray, saying, “There is peace!” when there is no peace, and there is one that is building a partition wall, but in vain there are those plastering it with whitewash.’

11 “Say to those plastering with whitewash that it will fall. A flooding downpour will certainly occur, and YOU, O hailstones, will fall, and a blast of windstorms itself will cause a splitting. 12 And, look! the wall must fall. Will it not be said to YOU men, ‘Where is the coating with which YOU did the plastering?’

13 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘I will also cause a blast of windstorms to burst forth in my rage, and in my anger there will occur a flooding downpour, and in rage there will be hailstones for an extermination. 14 And I will tear down the wall that YOU men have plastered with whitewash and bring it into contact with the earth, and its foundation must be exposed. And she will certainly fall, and YOU must come to an end in the midst of her; and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah.’

15 “‘And I will bring my rage to its finish upon the wall and upon those plastering it with whitewash, and I shall say to YOU men: “The wall is no more, and those plastering it are no more, 16 the prophets of Israel that are prophesying to Jerusalem and that are visioning for her a vision of peace, when there is no peace,”’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.
------------

There will always be someone here with the bucket of whitewash.

[Jahsdisciple]

Just one further point. I try to keep my communications civil and mature. In you post you called me arrogant and that I think that I (and others) am better than JW's. There is no need for such words unless a person is incapable of expressing themselves in a mature intelligent manner. Your words are not only baseless but are no more than a immature reaction to a situation that requires reasoning.... I will will tell you that you are going back to death

Is it mature to presume that you now speak for Jehovah and Jesus in deciding who will die ot live ? This is where you type of selfrighteous thinking leads..that you now think you speak for them. If that your version of mature,Im glad Im a babe to that kind of badness.

And is it mature to attack someone who is going through a battle of faith and is questioning why they are here ? Does your threat of death help someone to reason and get answers to their questions ?

If an elder spoke the way you spoke to "faithful JW" you would be outraged in the least..so spare the "mature" nonsence, you have no idea what the word means.

You are a coward and a bully.

[FutureMan]

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

Remember all, that one of Satan's main tactics, is to "divide and conquer".

If we all apply this scripture, then we can all avoid being divided, that includes me as well.

(Philippians 4:5) [LITV]
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, Rejoice!
5 Let your reasonableness be known to all men. The Lord is near.

[Eyes & Ears]

Me thinks (my personal opinion only) all on board individually are where we are supposed to be at this time. (Ecc 3:1-11)

If you are still attending meetings you are there for a reason, and when the time comes to remove yourselves, I pray with all my heart all are able to understand what Jehovah is showing you at that time.

In the meantime you should do what Jehovah has directed you to do according to the model left by his son, guided by Jehovah's Holy Spirit only. Stay focused on what you are doing and no one else. Listen to the Spirit and do as directed. Do what you are supposed to do where you currently are. We should know what we are supposed to be doing. (MY OPINION)

If you are not attending meetings, there has to be a reason why you are not. Your current understanding that Jehovah has shown you as individuals caused you to take a stand and you were thrown out of the synogogue or there are some other reasons. Whatever they are they are your reasons according to what you understand Jehovah has revealed to you from your prayers to him and your personal Bible Study.

Did it ever occur to you that either attending meetings or not, that this is where we are supposed to be at this time? That perhaps, just perhaps this information Jehovah allowed you to understand regarding this is for your personal use/understanding only. (Just a thought) Then take what Jehovah has shown/given you in the place where you are right now and help others as much as possible.

Rhetorical question: Do we really have the authority or right to tell people not to go to the meetings, KH, etc. Is that what we have been directed to do at this time by our Heavenly Father regardless of our hope? I'm just asking, just checking.

I think it is one thing to help others with Jehovah's Word to understand where we are right now in these challenging times according to what Jehovah has revealed thus far.

However, I also think it is quite dangerous to go beyond that until we are positive what Jehovah is directing us to do in that area. I think anything outside of this is personal opinion and personal understanding and nothing more. Do we not feel that Jehovah cannot take care of this matter. We would not want to be the cause for any stumbling now would we? Just asking that is all. Yes I also understand how some feel we cannot stumble anyone, however............................:)

Jehovah has a time when certain things will be revealed, etc. Some of that is happening now. We have much more understanding now than we had in the past. Why? Well because of Jehovah's timing not ours. There were certain things that had to take place first, we all here pretty much know now what those things are.

Because of this (my opinion again) there is now an over-abundance of opinions and explanations, on the net as well as folks who feel their dreams, visions and other STUFF have special meaning from Jehovah. But do they? Well I would be very careful with all of that at this time and make sure it is Jehovah's voice directing those ones who feel they are receiving messages from these areas and need to explain these things that Jehovah obviously still has sealed up at this time.
(Dn 12:4)

Some are adamant with their ideas/understanding and try to make others feel as though they are spiritually challenged because of their lack of understanding according to these new founded explanations and also prohpetic explanations by these self appointed folks. To me this is no different than some of the stuff going on inside Jehovah's household with some elevating themselves due to their own understanding and trying to control Jehovah's people.(Prov 3: 5-7, 2 Pet 1:20, 21 ) We all know the scriptures from our studies of what is in store for those ones. (Ezekiel 34 and many other scripures).

So I think when all is said and done those of us who want to worship our heavenly father in spirit and in truth will have the understanding and certainly recognize what Jehovah will open to us at that time.

But until then, I think it is good to keep in mind that we only have what Jehovah has given us. We would not have any of this understanding if it were not for our Father. I know we understand that on this board.

Perhaps displaying more love, understanding and patience with those who are not where we are with lots of love and especially prayer would help. My opinion again, I feel in the times to come we all are gonna need each other very much.

Those who are stronger will really need to help others to HOLD ON TIGHT. None of us know the day or hour or when our life as we know it right now will no longer be. Time and unforseen Circumstances.........................(Ecc 9:11).

We have no way of knowing if this will be our last time tuning in to the site. We have no way of knowing the exact hour this system will collapse. Those who are strong now, have no idea if they will be standing when STUFF HAPPENS. So we all need to beware of overconfidence. (1 Cor 10:12).

So as we resign to do Jehovah's will, let it be our resignation to do it in love towards each other, as we keep one another in prayer and view each other as Jehovah does. (hmmmmmm)

Just some of my thoughts. Take care everyone.

E & E


Well FJW see what you left us with? Take care of yourself and May Jehovah be with you and your loved ones.

[Londoner]

This thread (and others) illustrates quite well why many perceive (and quite rightly so) that the WTS is a cult. Who are we kidding here?

Based on the experiences that I've had, which are similar to many others' experiences which I've read on numerous boards, it's utterly futile to reason with a Jehovah's Witness who is loyal to the Society. In their mind, Jehovah is using them and obedience is required. Of course, as the enlighted know, this is based on a false premise/assumption and is incorrect for many reasons.

The situation which I went through taught me a great deal about how the Society and their followers function. In spite of the fact that it is crystal clear that there are individuals who were doing things wrong, they made excuses for their bad behaviour and rationalized all their actions, and continue to do so today.

Reasoning with SwordofJah (SOJ) is like reasoning with a robot. (I'm still waiting for a refutation on the 1975 issue, by the way, SOJ. Did you ever look at the link I posted, which clearly indicated that the Society stated that the door would be closed by 1975?) A robot can only regurgitate what has been programmed into it, but isn't really capable of going beyond.

Most times a question is asked of SOJ, SOJ usually refers to a Watchtower article. In SOJ's mind, the Watchtower must be correct. Naturally, we know that the Watchtower takes scriptures out of context and is guilty of presumptuous prophetic speculation and questionable doctrinal interpretation, but to the mind of a Jehovah's Witness loyal to the Society, questioning is not allowed. Actually, questioning is allowed, but questioning the answers given is not. So, in substance, questioning is not allowed.

SOJ - you stated to FutureMan that he is "confusing understanding with lies." It is you who is confused, not FutureMan. You are confusing understanding with truth, and truth with opinion.

No one can argue with truth. Truth doesn't change, by its very nature. For example, 2+2=4. World War II ended in 1945. Our earth circles the sun, and not vice versa. These are undeniable.

The fact that the Watchtower has had to update its understanding - by your own admission - proves that the Watchtower doesn't teach truth. It teaches its current opinion and passes it off as truth - present truth, which is subject to change. Since what is being taught is the opinion of men, more specifically the Governing Body, you are not really following the words of Jehovah. Never in the bible was something taught and later revised. A teaching was built upon, perhaps, rarely, but there were never any complete changes - at least none that I can see. (If any of Jehovah's spokespeople were teaching error, they were promptly punished, especially in the early years (Moses, for example). There was no waiting period. "Waiting on Jehovah" didn't exist. What Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body have done today is abuse the name of Jehovah by doing bad things and then telling the innocent and those who have been hurt by their bad policies to "wait on Jehovah." In other words, they are excusing themselves, just like their forefathers, the Pharisees.

To make matters worse, if one doesn't accept what the Governing body teaches, there are repercussions. I know, because I'm living through it now, so if anybody doesn't believe me I know that they don't know what they are talking about. Years ago I had mentioned to someone that the Governing Body could be wrong, and very shortly after I lost almost all of my 'privileges.' This is the essence of cultlike behaviour. Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that they can't openly voice an opinion contrary to what the Governing Body teaches (or what is taught in the Watchtower or other publications) is seriously deluded and/or on cocaine.

In fact, the meetings are like drugs. After I left for the second time a few years ago, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. At the time I had been subjected to abuse and harassment at the hands of a subset of elders and others, which woke me up, but what I came to realize later was that most people want the drugs. They don't want their world shattered. I say now that probably one of the only ways that a Society-loyal Jehovah's Witness can come out of his/her stupor is if something bad happens to them, or if something triggers the critical thinking thought-process. I am not talking about trivialities, but something along the lines of abuse, injustice, favouritism, questioning the validity of 1914, and the like. Otherwise, they will say the same things over and over again to justify that their world is sound.

For example:

a) "Robert [or, whoever] is an apostate." First off, Jehovah's Witnesses have changed the meaning of the word apostate to suit themselves. So this is an incorrect assumption. But because they've never questioned what the word means, their whole pattern of reasoning is wrong. Heretic would actually be a more appropriate word, but the bible doesn't punish heresy. In fact, history abounds with heretics who turned out to be right.

b) "Leave it to Jehovah." This is an abuse on the name of Jehovah and breaks the third commandment. This is said when the elders mess something up, or when they are too stupid to deal with something properly, or they are too afraid to deal with something, or when they are doing things behind your back to trick you into believing that they have God's spirit. I've seen all this, already.

c) "We're imperfect." This is another way that Jehovah's Witnesses justify the wrongs that they do. [B]Everyone is imperfect. Not everyone covers up child abuse and issues gag orders on the victims, slanders their brother, commits fornication, lies to people consistently, and shames them into believing things that they know to be wrong.

These are just three examples, but I can state many more.

Of course, at the end of the day, as Robert states, when Jesus does come, Jehovah's Witnesses who are loyal to the Society will have no choice but to adapt. When the organization is destroyed and some elders are punished because they've conspired with Satan, many will finally realize that they've been duped all along, and their words will be a reminder of how obstinate they were, as we were once too. Of course, we have good intentions, unlike the Governing Body. In the meantime, my approach (generally) is to conserve energy and concentrate on the things more important, because the only person who will be able to convince SwordofJah is SwordofJah. They have to take it upon themselves to believe. We can't force them, can we? That would make us no better than the Governing Body.

Nash

Great post.

I am one who is still attending meetings and preaching the Goods News as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Jesus' counsel to the congregations in Revelation does not contain any commandment to leave. He instead commends those who remain steadfast in carrying out God's will, despite the things that were going on within those congregations.

Jesus did say in the Gospels, that those who remain should flee when they catch sight of the disgusting thing that CAUSES desolation. There is no organisation in the present time that is in a position to cause desolation to the WT and all religions.

When it does appear, as I've said many times here: I WILL BE OUT OF THERE!!! :cool:


Londoner

[Molly]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

One of the biggest mistakes WT made was setting up themselves as exclusive keepers of truth. They condemned the rest of Christianity as a bunch of apostates when they now sit in that chair themselves.

When Christ actually does take up his heavenly throne to judge the temple, he will also be looking through the rest of Christianity. Personally, I have encountered many fine Christians, who reject trinity, hellfire, and immortal soul; who also believe in a paradise earth; who see New Jerusalem as a literal city coming down from heaven to earth, where Christ and his bride will rule for 1000 years.

Are JWs so arrogant to think they can judge before Christ does? Christianity is the entire pie..warts and all. Please read about the seven congregations in Revelation. Jesus keeps admonishing the 'congregations' to repent. He is still doing that.

When the ax starts to fall, it will affect all denominations, but it will be far more difficult on those who have allowed themselves to be controlled and blinded by their own religious leaders. They have sacrificed their God-given right to examine not only what they believe, but their right to examine their religious leaders for defects as well.

Paul warned us in 2 Thessalonians 2. In the end, it is our decision and our choice that affects our future. If we don't want to be swept away in the delusion, we need to pray for better eyesight.

Love,

Steadfast

Hello Steadfast-

I totally agree that the sons of the kingdom will come from a variety of denominations of Christendom. While I believe that the Witnesses have done a great work in preaching a mountain of Bible truths, they have become just another denomintation of Christendom due to their behavior. After all, the "organization" that has been used through the centuries could not possibly have always been the Witnesses because they have only existed for about 130 years. Christendom was the organization that has carried the torch since the 4th century even though it was unquestionably corrupted. The Witnesses have been used by Jehovah, certainly, as a subset of Christendom in the last century, but to think that the chosen can only come from them is myopic. (Every group thinks that it is the ONE! even my sister who is a Catholic.) There have been endless numbers of individuals and groups that have during the last 2000 years promoted Bible truths from within Christendom.

One of the biggest problems that JWs have come to imagine is that they are special because they have more of these Bible truths than other religions, but intellectual knowledge is not what will save a person in the end. It is the one that does the "will of the Father" that will be saved. So, one could be off the mark in Bible understanding but doing what is required and still receive everlasting life. Just knowing scripture won't help you at all if you are not living up to the requirements given us by Jesus. JWs in general have failed to live up to these requirement in several ways, particularly in judging, having mercy, and loving their fellow man as themselves.

Many in Christendom don't understand much about what the Bible truths are but are living up to Christ's requirements nevertheless. That's why I think that people like Mother Theresa will step ahead of the line in front of most Witnesses because she did what she could.

I think that Jehovah's Witnesses have a totally distorted understanding of what Christ expects of them. Somehow they have interpreted Christ's will to get in double digit service hours each month. Sigh!

Molly

[Molly]

Hi Nash-

Your post (#60) was spot on. Perfect!

Molly

[Molly]

Hi E&Es-

Hope this means that you will stick around a while. We would all miss you if you left.

Love

Molly

[FutureMan]

Me thinks (my personal opinion only) all on board individually are where we are supposed to be at this time. (Ecc 3:1-11)

If you are still attending meetings you are there for a reason, and when the time comes to remove yourselves, I pray with all my heart all are able to understand what Jehovah is showing you at that time.

In the meantime you should do what Jehovah has directed you to do according to the model left by his son, guided by Jehovah's Holy Spirit only. Stay focused on what you are doing and no one else. Listen to the Spirit and do as directed. Do what you are supposed to do where you currently are. We should know what we are supposed to be doing. (MY OPINION)

If you are not attending meetings, there has to be a reason why you are not. Your current understanding that Jehovah has shown you as individuals caused you to take a stand and you were thrown out of the synogogue or there are some other reasons. Whatever they are they are your reasons according to what you understand Jehovah has revealed to you from your prayers to him and your personal Bible Study.

Did it ever occur to you that either attending meetings or not, that this is where we are supposed to be at this time? That perhaps, just perhaps this information Jehovah allowed you to understand regarding this is for your personal use/understanding only. (Just a thought) Then take what Jehovah has shown/given you in the place where you are right now and help others as much as possible.

Rhetorical question: Do we really have the authority or right to tell people not to go to the meetings, KH, etc. Is that what we have been directed to do at this time by our Heavenly Father regardless of our hope? I'm just asking, just checking.

I think it is one thing to help others with Jehovah's Word to understand where we are right now in these challenging times according to what Jehovah has revealed thus far.

However, I also think it is quite dangerous to go beyond that until we are positive what Jehovah is directing us to do in that area. I think anything outside of this is personal opinion and personal understanding and nothing more. Do we not feel that Jehovah cannot take care of this matter. We would not want to be the cause for any stumbling now would we? Just asking that is all. Yes I also understand how some feel we cannot stumble anyone, however............................:)

Jehovah has a time when certain things will be revealed, etc. Some of that is happening now. We have much more understanding now than we had in the past. Why? Well because of Jehovah's timing not ours. There were certain things that had to take place first, we all here pretty much know now what those things are.

Because of this (my opinion again) there is now an over-abundance of opinions and explanations, on the net as well as folks who feel their dreams, visions and other STUFF have special meaning from Jehovah. But do they? Well I would be very careful with all of that at this time and make sure it is Jehovah's voice directing those ones who feel they are receiving messages from these areas and need to explain these things that Jehovah obviously still has sealed up at this time.
(Dn 12:4)

Some are adamant with their ideas/understanding and try to make others feel as though they are spiritually challenged because of their lack of understanding according to these new founded explanations and also prohpetic explanations by these self appointed folks. To me this is no different than some of the stuff going on inside Jehovah's household with some elevating themselves due to their own understanding and trying to control Jehovah's people.(Prov 3: 5-7, 2 Pet 1:20, 21 ) We all know the scriptures from our studies of what is in store for those ones. (Ezekiel 34 and many other scripures).

So I think when all is said and done those of us who want to worship our heavenly father in spirit and in truth will have the understanding and certainly recognize what Jehovah will open to us at that time.

But until then, I think it is good to keep in mind that we only have what Jehovah has given us. We would not have any of this understanding if it were not for our Father. I know we understand that on this board.

Perhaps displaying more love, understanding and patience with those who are not where we are with lots of love and especially prayer would help. My opinion again, I feel in the times to come we all are gonna need each other very much.

Those who are stronger will really need to help others to HOLD ON TIGHT. None of us know the day or hour or when our life as we know it right now will no longer be. Time and unforseen Circumstances.........................(Ecc 9:11).

We have no way of knowing if this will be our last time tuning in to the site. We have no way of knowing the exact hour this system will collapse. Those who are strong now, have no idea if they will be standing when STUFF HAPPENS. So we all need to beware of overconfidence. (1 Cor 10:12).

So as we resign to do Jehovah's will, let it be our resignation to do it in love towards each other, as we keep one another in prayer and view each other as Jehovah does. (hmmmmmm)

Just some of my thoughts. Take care everyone.

E & E



Hello E & E, a good post, and you makes some good points as we all should do what our conscience dictates to us to do, with the understanding of Bible truths that we individually have.

No one else can decide for us, it has to be our choice and our choice alone.

[Eyes & Ears]

"ain't no sunshine when she's gone.
it's not warm when she's away.
ain't no sunshine when she's gone
and she's always gone too long anytime she goes away,,,"http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

Gills-O-Brudder, you wittle silly, can't leave my lil brudder.:):D

Love ya, ya lil boogie

Big sis with big temper

E & E

[FutureMan]

I will add further that the original Roman army was what was circling Jerusalem and was in the the Holy land Judea.

This was the disgusting thing that Jesus was talking about standing within the vicinity of "the Holy place" or "a Holy place" as the NWT puts it.

Today we need to look for a figurative Roman army that matches the literal Roman army back then.

True Christians understood Jesus warning as to be that of the Roman army, so they fled the vicinity of Jerusalem as far as possible, so as not to be caught up in the destruction of Jerusalem and surrounding areas in Judea.

Today goes the same if we are to follow the same pattern, when true Christians see this disgusting figurative Roman army, which possibly could be the United Nations, but this is not certain at least from my perspective anyway, then we are to flee the vicinity of all religions, particularly that of Christian religions as it appears to me that they will all be effected.

I believe all religions will come under control of the King of the north (the figurative Roman army).

Any who oppose this king will be eliminated or taken captive (detentions centers).

This is my theory and understanding at this time.

Now the question is when do we see this figurative army or disgusting thing that is causing desolation stand in the Holy place, when do we see it circling the Holy land?

And how should we flee and where do we flee to?

[FutureMan]

Remember the Roman army (the king of the north) would not tolerate any nation or any religion that stood in the way of it's control of it's empire.

[Steadfast]

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

Dear Robert,

The eye salve belongs to Jesus Christ:

Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold having been fired by fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, and your shame and nakedness may not be revealed, and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

You're looking in the wrong place.

Love,

Steadfast

[one white robe]

This is all so very sad. So very very very sad. It all sounds so juvenile and

outrageous.

A member wants to leave, returns to say good bye and gets whipped with words.

I've come and gone several times. I have learned so much from the members

of this board. But from time to time it gets pretty low.



Eyes and Ears, Jahsdisciple and imjustaskin,

I am sorry in part if my comments to faithfulJW upset you all as I seemed to have generated a storm by my words of caution to faithfulJW. However I am not sorry in that it has generated quite a good discussion. Things have been getting a bit too run of the mill here. We need some lively emotional discussions backed by reasoning.

I don’t think that it was reasonable to call me arrogant and self righteous, as jahsdisciple called me. based on what I said to faithfulJW (I already forgave you for saying that faithfulJW so no need to apologize – blessed are the peacemakers). If I was arrogant and selfrighteous I would have reacted accordingly and replied wih name calling.

I don’t want to pour gasoline onto a fire. However I will explain my comments on this matter.

First, I would never chastise anyone for leaving this discussion group. This discussion board is not God’s organization …it’s just a forum for discussing god’s word. I often stay away for weeks and then come back. Leaving is not a problem and everyone is free to chose to leave and / or to return. You may have misunderstood me on this point.

However the reason we have all been involved in the preaching / teaching work is to lead people away from death into light. So if I see someone who I believe is making a mistake it is my obligation in love to point that out. My comments should be based on reasoning and not be just a baseless opinion. I don’t think that it is just my opinion that there is a serious error in the 1914 teaching. The entire premise of much of Watchman’s teachings is that there will be a fall of the WTBS – something I agree with entirely based on my reasoning and the writings and reasoning of Robert King. If I truly believe this, then I have an obligation to Jehovah and to my brother to point that out. How can I stand by and be politically correct to allow this without comment. The day’s are short and there may be no time to go back and then come back out. I would do the same thing if I heard that someone was going back to the Catholic Church. The meetings of the WTBS are dead. The teachings no longer stand the test of scrutiny. This is all a sign that the Spirit of God has left them.

I do not understand how many can just act so politically correct and wish him well as he heads back to the death camps.

I try not to use harsh language in my posts but as I read faithfulJW’s comments I felt sorry for him because he wrote as if he was repeating lines from a watchtower article defending the WTBS. I just wanted to wake him up. Many who are born into the organization go through life in a robotic state unable to see the deception. I however will react appropriately when challenged aggressively without basis.

I would rather offend no one. But given a choice I would rather offend those on this board than to offend Jehovah by not pointing out what I believe is wrong as long as it is done civilly and with reasoning.

Sorry but I strongly believe that 1914 is a lie and anyone who teaches it is promoting a lie. I can not see my brother go back to an organization that is about to fall and say nothing.

Sorry that you all reacted so harshly as we have always had a respectful discourse.

I will leave you with these two questions but won’t reply to this topic as enough has been said and no more need be said by me.

If you do not believe that the WTBS is about to fall then why are you here? You should be adhering strictly to the organization and not visit these sites. If you do see their error then how can you let faithfulJW return and say nothing?

Peace

OWR

[truthseeker]

Hello Steadfast-

I totally agree that the sons of the kingdom will come from a variety of denominations of Christendom. While I believe that the Witnesses have done a great work in preaching a mountain of Bible truths, they have become just another denomintation of Christendom due to their behavior. After all, the "organization" that has been used through the centuries could not possibly have always been the Witnesses because they have only existed for about 130 years. Christendom was the organization that has carried the torch since the 4th century even though it was unquestionably corrupted. The Witnesses have been used by Jehovah, certainly, as a subset of Christendom in the last century, but to think that the chosen can only come from them is myopic. (Every group thinks that it is the ONE! even my sister who is a Catholic.) There have been endless numbers of individuals and groups that have during the last 2000 years promoted Bible truths from within Christendom.

One of the biggest problems that JWs have come to imagine is that they are special because they have more of these Bible truths than other religions, but intellectual knowledge is not what will save a person in the end. It is the one that does the "will of the Father" that will be saved. So, one could be off the mark in Bible understanding but doing what is required and still receive everlasting life. Just knowing scripture won't help you at all if you are not living up to the requirements given us by Jesus. JWs in general have failed to live up to these requirement in several ways, particularly in judging, having mercy, and loving their fellow man as themselves.

Many in Christendom don't understand much about what the Bible truths are but are living up to Christ's requirements nevertheless. That's why I think that people like Mother Theresa will step ahead of the line in front of most Witnesses because she did what she could.

I think that Jehovah's Witnesses have a totally distorted understanding of what Christ expects of them. Somehow they have interpreted Christ's will to get in double digit service hours each month. Sigh!

Molly

Hi Molly
Could you tell me/us what the will of the father is, as to your understanding of it?
Just so I know were your coming from.
I ask this sincerely!!
Brian/truthseeker

[truthseeker]

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

Might I encourage you to produce a podcast addresing some of the subjects on this thread!

It would be good to hear your voice, the podcasts at times seem to be adressed to are little comunity!

thanks truthseeker

[shikinah]

Eyes and Ears, Jahsdisciple and imjustaskin,

I am sorry in part if my comments to faithfulJW upset you all as I seemed to have generated a storm by my words of caution to faithfulJW. However I am not sorry in that it has generated quite a good discussion. Things have been getting a bit too run of the mill here. We need some lively emotional discussions backed by reasoning.

I don’t think that it was reasonable to call me arrogant and self righteous, as jahsdisciple called me. based on what I said to faithfulJW(I already forgave you for saying that faithfulJW so no need to apologize – blessed are the peacemakers). If I was arrogant and selfrighteous I would have reacted accordingly and replied wih name calling.

I don’t want to pour gasoline onto a fire. However I will explain my comments on this matter.

First, I would never chastise anyone for leaving this discussion group. This discussion board is not God’s organization …it’s just a forum for discussing god’s word. I often stay away for weeks and then come back. Leaving is not a problem and everyone is free to chose to leave and / or to return. You may have misunderstood me on this point.

However the reason we have all been involved in the preaching / teaching work is to lead people away from death into light. So if I see someone who I believe is making a mistake it is my obligation in love to point that out. My comments should be based on reasoning and not be just a baseless opinion. I don’t think that it is just my opinion that there is a serious error in the 1914 teaching. The entire premise of much of Watchman’s teachings is that there will be a fall of the WTBS – something I agree with entirely based on my reasoning and the writings and reasoning of Robert King. If I truly believe this, then I have an obligation to Jehovah and to my brother to point that out. How can I stand by and be politically correct to allow this without comment. The day’s are short and there may be no time to go back and then come back out. I would do the same thing if I heard that someone was going back to the Catholic Church. The meetings of the WTBS are dead. The teachings no longer stand the test of scrutiny. This is all a sign that the Spirit of God has left them.

I do not understand how many can just act so politically correct and wish him well as he heads back to the death camps.

I try not to use harsh language in my posts but as I read faithfulJW’s comments I felt sorry for him because he wrote as if he was repeating lines from a watchtower article defending the WTBS. I just wanted to wake him up. Many who are born into the organization go through life in a robotic state unable to see the deception. I however will react appropriately when challenged aggressively without basis.

I would rather offend no one. But given a choice I would rather offend those on this board than to offend Jehovah by not pointing out what I believe is wrong as long as it is done civilly and with reasoning.

Sorry but I strongly believe that 1914 is a lie and anyone who teaches it is promoting a lie. I can not see my brother go back to an organization that is about to fall and say nothing.

Sorry that you all reacted so harshly as we have always had a respectful discourse.

I will leave you with these two questions but won’t reply to this topic as enough has been said and no more need be said by me.

If you do not believe that the WTBS is about to fall then why are you here? You should be adhering strictly to the organization and not visit these sites. If you do see their error then how can you let faithfulJW return and say nothing?

Peace

OWR

OWR, i can see that you speak from a sincere heart and you want to warn others of the coming impending danger of the watchtowers collapse, but as Londoner quoted the scriptures warned "when you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in the holy place" then we are to flee to the mountains.
Does anyone at this moment in time see or entirely recognise this disgusting thing? I guess the answer is no, because it is not the appointed time.
There are many who need the association of their brothers and sisters, for either spiritual support or for a sense of contact within a spiritual family, while others likemyself go it alone, which is a lonely road, but that doesnt mean
I may not return if I feel thats what Jehovah wants me to do, it would be difficult but if thats whats required so be it. I do believe the WTS will eventually collapse and I do believe Jehovah has allowed an error of operation to occur for a stumbling and a refining to take place, it happened in Charles Taze Russells era and its happening right now. But Jehovahs spirit will make it clear to us when, all we have to do is pray and observe the signs.
It reminds me of this senario, a fireman is trained to rescue, even putting his life on the line for individuals who he has never known, even though he has retired and hung up his uniform, if he's walking past a burning building would he continue or despite leaving his job rush in and try to rescue the person in danger?
We too having been trained to save lives, but we too despite retiring from the WTS may need to do some rescuing from the inside for they'll be many who will need rescuing when the alert is sounded. I do understand your passion and i too have felt this way, when I see the totally besotted mentality of the WTS from my own family, but if I told them what I have come to know, i'd be labled an apostate and the tiny peices that I feed then from time to time would be rejected. Time is speeding up and Jehovah will pour out his holy spirt and reveal this Disgusting Thing for ALL to see, whether we recognise it or not depends entirely on wether we have been diligently on the watch.


Shikinah

[Juan23]

Rhetorical question: Do we really have the authority or right to tell people not to go to the meetings, KH, etc. Is that what we have been directed to do at this time by our Heavenly Father regardless of our hope? I'm just asking, just checking.


I'm not at that point yet. (go or not go). So far I'm still in. But it's very hard to maintain my joy. I'm questioning everything. Is this true/not true? Is this necessary/not necessary? Very tiring.

I pray that when the disgusting thing that causes desolation appears; I hope I will see it and flee.

[Eyes & Ears]

Hi E&Es-

Hope this means that you will stick around a while. We would all miss you if you left.

Love

Molly


Sorry, I got so worked up I was gonna leave the board. I just have to get a grip on certain things.

Can't go flying off the handle. :rolleyes: I just have a hard time when I feel someone is being

rude or what I perceive is rude. That ticks me off so much.


This is like a little congregation. It is hard to remove oneself even when we see certain

things taking place. So, I will have to keep those reminders in my spiritual file cabinet and pull

them up when I feel strongly about some things and how they are expressed.:)This board is

like a small congregation to me. In every congregation there are tense moments. But if the

love is there it can be handled the way Christ would handle it. Oh well another day to try to

do better right.


Love back atcha Molly

E & E's:D

[Eyes & Ears]

I'm not at that point yet. (go or not go). So far I'm still in. But it's very hard to maintain my joy. I'm questioning everything. Is this true/not true? Is this necessary/not necessary? Very tiring.

I pray that when the disgusting thing that causes desolation appears; I hope I will see it and flee.


Hi Juan,

I understand your feelings so much. We both were outside looking in at one time

and you were reinstated before I was. I was reinstated shortly after you. It is very

difficult to maintain joy under the present circumstances dealing with what Jehovah

said would be taking place inside his household at this time. Many still do not

understand why we are experiencing these awful things. Their answser is

the leadership is a mess, therefore everything else are lies and we are a cult

and they are bitter, lost and angry. Many X-JW's did not learn/understand how to

draw close to Jehovah and his son. They as we all did at one time drew close to the

Org/WTBTS that Jehovah allows to stand in place until he is ready to take

action aginst the ORG. Consider yourself blessed by Jehovah because

we are still holding on. We may be hurting, but Jehovah is still holding us

up with all our imperfections, hurts and pain. Don't give up on Jehovah

OKEY DOKEY. My favorite saying is do what Jehovah has asked us to do

and let him work out the details.:):D


Juan, with the understanding that Jehovah has allowed me to have now, I feel I

must endure just a little longer.


Several times I left. Twiced I DA'd and I didn't get the full impact of why until

I found this forum. Was it a coincidence that I found this board, I dunno, but I

am thankful to Jehovah for all I have learned from everyone here. I have grown up

at my age on this board spiritually. I am so very very thankful to Jehovah for that.

All those years I just knew that something was not right.

I have been here since 2004, left came back, left came back :):D.

The important thing for me personally now is to make sure I am doing what I feel

is correct with the understanding Jehovah is giving me. Is it hard you bet it is.


Yes I agree Juan, it is extremely tiring. I am older and it is wearing me out dealing

with the STUFF inside Jehovah's household, a mate who cannot "SEE", friends

who refuse to SEE at this time and a dying system that is totally saturated with evil

and trying to pull us down with it. It is as Jehovah says critical times hard to

deal with. Put on the complete suit of armor, only those who endure until the end

will be saved. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS TO PICK UP OUR TORTURE STAKE (hmmmmm).


So keep HOLD N ON on Juan, try to remember what Jehovah says would be going

on during these challenging times. He did not tell us it would be easy. Look what

his son had to go through. We are not being nailed to a stake, but we all are

going through much. I pray to Jehovah constantly for strength (Phil 4:13,

Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 40:29-31) for myself and for those who are trying so hard

to do as Jehovah has asked to love him with our whole being and to love our

neighbor.


We are almost at the finish line, this is why things are so intense.

As the Kingdom Song goes KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE. Don't take your

eyes off it. KEEP IT IN FOCUS no matter what you/we all will face. Remember

the taunt from the evil one in Job 1 & 2. Also remember the whole world

is under the influence of a murderous, lying & dying evil spirit creature. He does

not care about anything now except destroying those who love our heavenly

father.



So maintaining joy is difficult under the present situation in Jehovah's household

but remember also this is a time of testing and refinement for those of us

who want to worship in spirit and in truth. There will come a time as you

mentioned when we will see that disgusting thing and my prayer is that

we all recognize it and do what we are supposed to do.


Love to you and your family Juan. KEEP HOLD N ON AS TIGHT AS YOU

CAN TO JEHOVAH, HIS SON, HIS WORD AND YOUR FAMILY.



E & E

[Molly]

Dear E&Es-

I too feel like this forum is like a little congregation, or perhaps like a family. And sometimes we can get on on another's nerves.

Some of us unintentionally rub others the wrong way at times. When when we phrase our comments in our effort to make our point sometimes we can sound overly dogmatic or perhaps dismissive of others. That is the perfect opportunity to forgive others as we would like to be forgiven. Often that is not easy if it is our point of view that has been crunched, or if we perceive some insult or other offense to ourself or someone else. It stands to reason that if we think differently from someone else, someones feelings will eventually get hurt. And sometimes what we think we are writing, just doesn't sound the same when someone else is reading the words. Unless the words are obviously objectionable, we shouldn't assume bad motives. I know that when I have read back some of my posts, they just didn't sound the way I had intended them.

Most on this forum are on a journey to find what is Bible truth but we are not all at the same place in this journey. Some have taken some side roads for a period of time and have to backtrack to the main path. I appreciate this as they are at least trying to find out what is acceptable to the Father. It's the ones who are complacent and satisfied with the garbage they have been fed that Jesus will spit out of his mouth. People here have come to different conclusions on the various issues, but at least they are striving for a better understanding. Don't you just love it when someone posts something that you had never even considered before and it creates a light bulb moment. In the time I have been here I have learned so much from so many. And that includes you!

So, it would be a terrible loss if you left.

Molly

[Eyes & Ears]

OWR, i can see that you speak from a sincere heart and you want to warn others of the coming impending danger of the watchtowers collapse, but as Londoner quoted the scriptures warned "when you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in the holy place" then we are to flee to the mountains.
Does anyone at this moment in time see or entirely recognise this disgusting thing? I guess the answer is no, because it is not the appointed time.
There are many who need the association of their brothers and sisters, for either spiritual support or for a sense of contact within a spiritual family, while others likemyself go it alone, which is a lonely road, but that doesnt mean
I may not return if I feel thats what Jehovah wants me to do, it would be difficult but if thats whats required so be it. I do believe the WTS will eventually collapse and I do believe Jehovah has allowed an error of operation to occur for a stumbling and a refining to take place, it happened in Charles Taze Russells era and its happening right now. But Jehovahs spirit will make it clear to us when, all we have to do is pray and observe the signs.
It reminds me of this senario, a fireman is trained to rescue, even putting his life on the line for individuals who he has never known, even though he has retired and hung up his uniform, if he's walking past a burning building would he continue or despite leaving his job rush in and try to rescue the person in danger?
We too having been trained to save lives, but we too despite retiring from the WTS may need to do some rescuing from the inside for they'll be many who will need rescuing when the alert is sounded. I do understand your passion and i too have felt this way, when I see the totally besotted mentality of the WTS from my own family, but if I told them what I have come to know, i'd be labled an apostate and the tiny peices that I feed then from time to time would be rejected. Time is speeding up and Jehovah will pour out his holy spirt and reveal this Disgusting Thing for ALL to see, whether we recognise it or not depends entirely on wether we have been diligently on the watch.


Shikinah


Beautiful expressions Shikinah, just beautiful.:)

E & E

[Eyes & Ears]

Dear E&Es-

I too feel like this forum is like a little congregation, or perhaps like a family. And sometimes we can get on on another's nerves.

Some of us unintentionally rub others the wrong way at times. When when we phrase our comments in our effort to make our point sometimes we can sound overly dogmatic or perhaps dismissive of others. That is the perfect opportunity to forgive others as we would like to be forgiven. Often that is not easy if it is our point of view that has been crunched, or if we perceive some insult or other offense to ourself or someone else. It stands to reason that if we think differently from someone else, someones feelings will eventually get hurt. And sometimes what we think we are writing, just doesn't sound the same when someone else is reading the words. Unless the words are obviously objectionable, we shouldn't assume bad motives. I know that when I have read back some of my posts, they just didn't sound the way I had intended them.

Most on this forum are on a journey to find what is Bible truth but we are not all at the same place in this journey. Some have taken some side roads for a period of time and have to backtrack to the main path. I appreciate this as they are at least trying to find out what is acceptable to the Father. It's the ones who are complacent and satisfied with the garbage they have been fed that Jesus will spit out of his mouth. People here have come to different conclusions on the various issues, but at least they are striving for a better understanding. Don't you just love it when someone posts something that you had never even considered before and it creates a light bulb moment. In the time I have been here I have learned so much from so many. And that includes you!

So, it would be a terrible loss if you left.

Molly


Thanks Molly, you have given me wonderful reminders and I thank you very much. We all need

loving reminders especially now. Lots of love to you and your loved ones.

E & E's

[Eyes & Ears]

Eyes and Ears, Jahsdisciple and imjustaskin,

I am sorry in part if my comments to faithfulJW upset you all as I seemed to have generated a storm by my words of caution to faithfulJW. However I am not sorry in that it has generated quite a good discussion. Things have been getting a bit too run of the mill here. We need some lively emotional discussions backed by reasoning.

I don’t think that it was reasonable to call me arrogant and self righteous, as jahsdisciple called me. based on what I said to faithfulJW(I already forgave you for saying that faithfulJW so no need to apologize – blessed are the peacemakers). If I was arrogant and selfrighteous I would have reacted accordingly and replied wih name calling.

I don’t want to pour gasoline onto a fire. However I will explain my comments on this matter.

First, I would never chastise anyone for leaving this discussion group. This discussion board is not God’s organization …it’s just a forum for discussing god’s word. I often stay away for weeks and then come back. Leaving is not a problem and everyone is free to chose to leave and / or to return. You may have misunderstood me on this point.

However the reason we have all been involved in the preaching / teaching work is to lead people away from death into light. So if I see someone who I believe is making a mistake it is my obligation in love to point that out. My comments should be based on reasoning and not be just a baseless opinion. I don’t think that it is just my opinion that there is a serious error in the 1914 teaching. The entire premise of much of Watchman’s teachings is that there will be a fall of the WTBS – something I agree with entirely based on my reasoning and the writings and reasoning of Robert King. If I truly believe this, then I have an obligation to Jehovah and to my brother to point that out. How can I stand by and be politically correct to allow this without comment. The day’s are short and there may be no time to go back and then come back out. I would do the same thing if I heard that someone was going back to the Catholic Church. The meetings of the WTBS are dead. The teachings no longer stand the test of scrutiny. This is all a sign that the Spirit of God has left them.

I do not understand how many can just act so politically correct and wish him well as he heads back to the death camps.

I try not to use harsh language in my posts but as I read faithfulJW’s comments I felt sorry for him because he wrote as if he was repeating lines from a watchtower article defending the WTBS. I just wanted to wake him up. Many who are born into the organization go through life in a robotic state unable to see the deception. I however will react appropriately when challenged aggressively without basis.

I would rather offend no one. But given a choice I would rather offend those on this board than to offend Jehovah by not pointing out what I believe is wrong as long as it is done civilly and with reasoning.

Sorry but I strongly believe that 1914 is a lie and anyone who teaches it is promoting a lie. I can not see my brother go back to an organization that is about to fall and say nothing.

Sorry that you all reacted so harshly as we have always had a respectful discourse.

I will leave you with these two questions but won’t reply to this topic as enough has been said and no more need be said by me.

If you do not believe that the WTBS is about to fall then why are you here? You should be adhering strictly to the organization and not visit these sites. If you do see their error then how can you let faithfulJW return and say nothing?

Peace

OWR

HI OWR,

Thanks for your above expressions.

I will only say that I do understand where you are coming from even if I do not

agree with all you express. There are times when I personally step back and let go. I will let

this go and move on.


Peace to you also OWR

E & E

[watchman]

Dear Robert,

The eye salve belongs to Jesus Christ:

Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold having been fired by fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, and your shame and nakedness may not be revealed, and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

You're looking in the wrong place.

Love,

Steadfast

Okay, so, presumably Jesus has given you some eye salve and you can clearly see things now. You say that you know many fine Christians in other denominations and you imply that I am blind for not encouraging people to leave the WT. But I have a question for you. These many fine people you made mention of, do you encourage them to leave their particular faith? If not and if Jesus is okay with them being where they are, why is it necessary for JW's to leave the WT? Secondly, why is it that XJW's are always trying to set active JW's free from their enslavement? What do you have to offer, other than the implied appeal to be self-sparing?

watchman

[Steadfast]

Okay, so, presumably Jesus has given you some eye salve and you can clearly see things now. You say that you know many fine Christians in other denominations and you imply that I am blind for not encouraging people to leave the WT. But I have a question for you. These many fine people you made mention of, do you encourage them to leave their particular faith? If not and if Jesus is okay with them being where they are, why is it necessary for JW's to leave the WT? Secondly, why is it that XJW's are always trying to set active JW's free from their enslavement? What do you have to offer, other than the implied appeal to be self-sparing? watchman

Dear Robert,

First of all, I do not encourage anyone to leave the WT 'organization.' I have brothers and sisters as close friends who are still 'inside.' Whether they decide to leave or stay is up to them.

On the other hand, WT has always played on the guilt mechanism for control...and it has worked quite well. "If you leave the organization, you are leaving Jehovah." I heard it all for years and years and it almost spiritually destroyed me. Peter however showed that it isn't what but whom we follow, and that whom is Jesus Christ...not a Governing Body. I don't encourage anyone to go anywhere but to Yahweh and the Son of God.

The Governing Body is claiming crowns prematurely, by saying Christ already sat down on this throne and distributed the talents, so they can effectively operate their dictatorship. The friends are suffering, both spiritually and emotionally, and it often takes its tole on them physically. Sad to say, many are surviving on antidepressant medication, and many of them are elders wives.

It is the individual who decides when 'they've had enough,' not you, not me, not anyone else. Just them.

So, while you would like to read subversive motives behind what I post here, I am just a JW who did stand up for truth and paid the price for doing so.

Since the WT has proven itself time and time again and over and over to be false prophets, I finally realized that it was time for me to look into the written Word of God for myself and see what it has to say. What I find, is what I post here.

Here's something I wrote a few years ago that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter:



Superfine Apostles




A body sits in Brooklyn who portend to know and teach
The truth of prophecy and law and deny they over-reach
All do proclaim the food they serve is authored from above
"Come enjoy the banquet that our God prepared with love."

Demanding no one question their authority to teach
A truth that scripture does expose as false and beyond reach
For those who love Jehovah first and not false words of men
Who claim exclusive right to lead the sheep within the pen.

The superfine apostles who have run ahead of Jah
Saying that the talents give them right to create law
That goes beyond what scripture says the flock must recognize
The power that they have not earned with eyes discreet and wise.

True remnant of Christ's brothers who were robbed of rightful place
And occupy a lesser office cramped in useless space
Denied their right to feed and shepherd brothers Jah has said
Were called to be the equals of the ones who will yet dread.

Shutting tight the mouths of those who have authority
To help produce the food that feeds the flock in constancy
The unrepentant heart will suffer judgment for their course
And lose the crown they thought they wore through sin with no remorse.

November 25, 2004

Love,

Steadfast

[watchman]

Dear Robert,

First of all, I do not encourage anyone to leave the WT 'organization.' I have brothers and sisters as close friends who are still 'inside.' Whether they decide to leave or stay is up to them.

On the other hand, WT has always played on the guilt mechanism for control...and it has worked quite well. "If you leave the organization, you are leaving Jehovah." I heard it all for years and years and it almost spiritually destroyed me. Peter however showed that it isn't what but whom we follow, and that whom is Jesus Christ...not a Governing Body. I don't encourage anyone to go anywhere but to Yahweh and the Son of God.

The Governing Body is claiming crowns prematurely, by saying Christ already sat down on this throne and distributed the talents, so they can effectively operate their dictatorship. The friends are suffering, both spiritually and emotionally, and it often takes its tole on them physically. Sad to say, many are surviving on antidepressant medication, and many of them are elders wives.


I am well aware of the issues inside the Watchtower. I don't gloss over them. The original e-watchman site had numerous articles addressing various issues such as you mention, as does the book Jehovah Himself Has Become King. The purpose of the coming judgment is to set matters straight within God's household. I encourage JW's to wait for the housecleaning.

watchman

[Utuna]

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

Dear Watchman,

God's spirit guides Christ's brothers so that they may accomplish what it wants them to.

The FDS will be the one found active in providing healthy spiritual food to each other and to the other sheep, that is, as recorded in John21:17 will be found "feeding Jesus' little sheep". The FDS won't be the one found actively struggling against false religion.

Please read : "Hearing them, he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do" - (Mat9:12)

What's the talent Christ's brothers are given ? To defend the WT at all costs ? To destroy the WT at all costs ? How did our Lord act when he had to deal with the Pharisees ? What was his main concern ? Did he tell everyone to flee from the Jewish system because it was about to be destroyed ?

The battle against the evil slave isn't ours. Christ's brothers are here in behalf of each other (Eph4:12) and of Jesus' sheep. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should stay idle and silent when confronted with glaring lies. It's Jesus' role to clean his house, not the role of his brothers. We should all make sure that we don't fight for the wrong battle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[shikinah]

Beautiful expressions Shikinah, just beautiful.:)

E & E

Thank you sister E&E:)

[Jinnvisible]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY

Lata Gata...

[truthseeker]

Lata Gata...

Look who’s back !!!!! The master linguist vocabularies!
Welcome back you were missed!
I hope you had a most excellent holy month brother Jinn you and your familia!:)

[Jinnvisible]

Thank you so much bro.

It was a tough month. I thought I was going to lose my Eyes & Ears.

I have learned that I can hold my tongue for longer than I can hold my breath.

I wasn`t sure before because I like to be talking whenever there is avaliable air avaliable.

[Eyes & Ears]

LA JINNSTER IS BACK.:D:)



Well JINNSTER that was the LOOOOOOOOOOONGEST month ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am glad you only take a break once a year. Welcome back and I do mean

welcome back. :D


It's 9:10 p.m. where I am now. Gotta go to bed. I'm beat. Have a great

night all.

E & E

[Gilligan]

LA JINNSTER IS BACK.:D:)



Well JINNSTER that was the LOOOOOOOOOOONGEST month ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am glad you only take a break once a year. Welcome back and I do mean

welcome back. :D


It's 9:10 p.m. where I am now. Gotta go to bed. I'm beat. Have a great

night all.

E & E




??Who was gone for a month??
I thot this poster was just another casualty of some kind from the Super-Mods,,,:rolleyes:

[shikinah]

Nice to have you back Jinninvisible:p
Hope you had a well deserved break


Shikinah

[one white robe]

OWR, i can see that you speak from a sincere heart and you want to warn others of the coming impending danger of the watchtowers collapse, but as Londoner quoted the scriptures warned "when you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in the holy place" then we are to flee to the mountains.
Does anyone at this moment in time see or entirely recognise this disgusting thing? I guess the answer is no, because it is not the appointed time.
There are many who need the association of their brothers and sisters, for either spiritual support or for a sense of contact within a spiritual family, while others likemyself go it alone, which is a lonely road, but that doesnt mean
I may not return if I feel thats what Jehovah wants me to do, it would be difficult but if thats whats required so be it. I do believe the WTS will eventually collapse and I do believe Jehovah has allowed an error of operation to occur for a stumbling and a refining to take place, it happened in Charles Taze Russells era and its happening right now. But Jehovahs spirit will make it clear to us when, all we have to do is pray and observe the signs.
It reminds me of this senario, a fireman is trained to rescue, even putting his life on the line for individuals who he has never known, even though he has retired and hung up his uniform, if he's walking past a burning building would he continue or despite leaving his job rush in and try to rescue the person in danger?
We too having been trained to save lives, but we too despite retiring from the WTS may need to do some rescuing from the inside for they'll be many who will need rescuing when the alert is sounded. I do understand your passion and i too have felt this way, when I see the totally besotted mentality of the WTS from my own family, but if I told them what I have come to know, i'd be labled an apostate and the tiny peices that I feed then from time to time would be rejected. Time is speeding up and Jehovah will pour out his holy spirt and reveal this Disgusting Thing for ALL to see, whether we recognise it or not depends entirely on wether we have been diligently on the watch.


Shikinah

Hi,

My firm belief is that at this time Holy Spirit is revealing the deception and calling out those who will do his final true work. Its not a matter of staying in or leaving the organization. Its about receiving the call. No one leaves on his own account.

Peace

OWR

[one white robe]

What you are telling me is that I can only help people grow spiritually if I tell them to leave the Watchtower? Is that the message I will proclaim if I rub some of your salve in my eyes? No thanks.

watchman

Hi Robert,

After reading your posts on this topic I was curious about some of your feelings which I will pose in the following questions.

Do you believe that Holy Spirit is still with the organization and operating at meetings? Your writings would seem to indicate that the operation of error would cause the HS to flee prior to the fall.

What would be the purpose of remaining in an organization that is operating in errror devoid of HS?

Is it possible that there is a calling out going on at this time? That the spirit is moving the hearts of those who he will use in the final 1260 days?

Am I right in assuming that your role is just to provide light and let each person make their decision by operation of Holy Spirit?

Do you believe that the true final sealing is going on at this time and that after the sealing is complete the work will start?

As a side note I appreciated your phrase in a prior post: "The demons have this world rigged to explode" (not sure if that is vervatum but it denotes your thought). SO true ....SO True.

Peace

OWR

[Jahsdisciple]

Hi,

My firm belief is that at this time Holy Spirit is revealing the deception and calling out those who will do his final true work. Its not a matter of staying in or leaving the organization. Its about receiving the call. No one leaves on his own account.

Peace

OWR
Jehovah is not telling anyone to leave the Org,thats what you say.

When the 2 witnesses are revealed,then we will no longer need JWs as we know them..or they may be used with this name to make a point that Jah was behind them. Either way,those who have been part of the org will be given the opportunity to 'Treat Jesus brothers" the way He mentions in the gospel via his brothers.

Its not for you to say the HS is saying to leave or to draw people out of it.

You talk about a deception..well,"Every man a liar proves to be"..we all have things that are inconsistant with what we would like to be. So stop expecting pefection from an org run by inconsistant people.

If Jah says EVERY man is a liar,this means they have lied in some way. But does this mean that He cuts them of ? Those at the top have lied,but so have you..Jah has said so..me included.

The org,in whatever way(or those who need it),WILL be disiplined. BUT Jehovah says He does this only to those He loves. So no matter how bad the sin and what disipline follows,He will do it because JWs as a whole have shown love for Him and tried their best AND wants to use them further.

He scourges everyone whom He recieves as a son..Heb 12. Scourge:To afflict with severe or widespread suffering and devastation; ravage.2. To chastise severely; excoriate.
3. To flog.
The Org,those at the top..we dont know who exactly..but they will be scourged. We might say when seeing this:"see ,they are copping what they deserved." But Jah is doing it because He recieves them as sons,NOT because He is cutting them of.

"He is not unrighteous so as to forget their works and love for His name"..and JWs more than any other group have shown LOVE for His NAME and tried their best to make it known.

[Jinnvisible]

Nice to have you back Jinninvisible:p
Hope you had a well deserved break



Very nice. Thank you, shikinikinicnak.

[tortas]

I haven't been here for a long time because I no longer feel that it is proper for me, so with that I am asking Robert to remove my handle. I will no longer be coming here so those that know me I say goodby. MJBWY



if i may use an analogy, comparison or whatever

when one is trying kick a bad habit such as cocaine, alcohol or whatever your vice might be


seeking a support system is very crucial to cleaning oneself from those bad habits

[Juan23]

The org,in whatever way(or those who need it),WILL be disiplined. BUT Jehovah says He does this only to those He loves. So no matter how bad the sin and what disipline follows,He will do it because JWs as a whole have shown love for Him and tried their best AND wants to use them further.

He scourges everyone whom He recieves as a son..Heb 12. Scourge:To afflict with severe or widespread suffering and devastation; ravage.2. To chastise severely; excoriate.
3. To flog.
The Org,those at the top..we dont know who exactly..but they will be scourged. We might say when seeing this:"see ,they are copping what they deserved." But Jah is doing it because He recieves them as sons,NOT because He is cutting them of.

"He is not unrighteous so as to forget their works and love for His name"..and JWs more than any other group have shown LOVE for His NAME and tried their best to make it known.

The "sons" will be scourged. But the bible is clear on what will happen to the wicked slave(s).

Mat 13:40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.

[Juan23]

Lata Gata...

You made me run to the dictionary. If anybody is interested. Lata gata means:

Urban Dictionary: latagata
latagata - 1 definition - from the Medieval: 'See you later alligator.' also lata gata.

[truthseeker]

You made me run to the dictionary. If anybody is interested. Lata gata means:

Urban Dictionary: latagata
latagata - 1 definition - from the Medieval: 'See you later alligator.' also lata gata.


Superb Juan23:
I dint give it a thought other than it was foreign:
Jinn always has a reason for his words;
Thanks for the translation:

truthseeker

[Juan23]

Superb Juan23:
I dint give it a thought other than it was foreign:
Jinn always has a reason for his words;
Thanks for the translation:

truthseeker

Jinn is a deep thinker and a superb humorist (not trying to get anybody a swelled head).

123

[truthseeker]

Jinn is a deep thinker and a superb humorist (not trying to get anybody a swelled head).

123

:D
Yes humility at all cost!
But very insightful about the Jinn!

[Jinnvisible]

I got sent a verbal remedy on my youtube comments.

biggingerdude has made a comment on Penny Stove Tutorial:

"This guy has perhaps the most boring voice in the entire world"


I love that. The swelling has started to go down.

[truthseeker]

I got sent a verbal remedy on my youtube comments.

biggingerdude has made a comment on Penny Stove Tutorial:

"This guy has perhaps the most boring voice in the entire world"


I love that. The swelling has started to go down.

Ya see there you go! For my self I had the absolute opposite impression of the voice on the tutorial.
Go figure; It must be all in the ear of the listener:rolleyes:

Hear: have some air back Jinn!

[shikinah]

I got sent a verbal remedy on my youtube comments.

biggingerdude has made a comment on Penny Stove Tutorial:

"This guy has perhaps the most boring voice in the entire world"


I love that. The swelling has started to go down.

Tell him your not auditioning for My Fair Lady:p

[Steadfast]

Hi Robert,

After reading your posts on this topic I was curious about some of your feelings which I will pose in the following questions.

Do you believe that Holy Spirit is still with the organization and operating at meetings? Your writings would seem to indicate that the operation of error would cause the HS to flee prior to the fall.

What would be the purpose of remaining in an organization that is operating in errror devoid of HS?

Is it possible that there is a calling out going on at this time? That the spirit is moving the hearts of those who he will use in the final 1260 days?

Am I right in assuming that your role is just to provide light and let each person make their decision by operation of Holy Spirit?

Do you believe that the true final sealing is going on at this time and that after the sealing is complete the work will start?

As a side note I appreciated your phrase in a prior post: "The demons have this world rigged to explode" (not sure if that is vervatum but it denotes your thought). SO true ....SO True.

Peace

OWR

Dear OWR,

Maybe Robert missed your questions, so I'm bringing them forward. I too am interested in his response.

Love,

Steadfast

[Gabriel]

Dear OWR,

Maybe Robert missed your questions, so I'm bringing them forward. I too am interested in his response.

Love,

Steadfast

I am also eager to hear Roberts reply. These are the very same questionings that has been weighing very heavily upon my mind and heart. I hope he answers soon.

[watchman]

Thank you Steadfast, I did miss that post. Those are good questions. How about I use them to prime the pump for the next podcast? Seems the well has gone dry...

watchman

[truthseeker]

It seams every one is missing the point!

The Watchtower Organization is synonymous with the Faithful and Unfaithful slave class. You can’t have one with out the other, “wheat and weed’s separated, one stored one burned” “good fish bad fish caught in a drag net, then separated on the beach”.

The prophets have recorded detailed information about your very questions!
So it is a personal responsibility to decide what to do with this information.
Robert has made it plane what he is doing, he spoke out. Personally for me that’s all he needed to do. If we prove to ourselves what he has discovered is accurate, then its up to us what we do from here forward.
Truthseeker

[truthseeker]

It seams every one is missing the point!

The Watchtower Organization is synonymous with the Faithful and Unfaithful slave class. You can’t have one with out the other, “wheat and weed’s separated, one stored one burned” “good fish bad fish caught in a drag net, then separated on the beach”.

The prophets have recorded detailed information about your very questions!
So it is a personal responsibility to decide what to do with this information.
Robert has made it plane what he is doing, he spoke out. Personally for me that’s all he needed to do. If we prove to ourselves what he has discovered is accurate, then its up to us what we do from here forward.
Truthseeker


Matthew11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.


Matthew13:13 This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it;



John3:19 Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked.


Acts28:26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means understand; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see.

[shikinah]

It seams every one is missing the point!

The Watchtower Organization is synonymous with the Faithful and Unfaithful slave class. You can’t have one with out the other, “wheat and weed’s separated, one stored one burned” “good fish bad fish caught in a drag net, then separated on the beach”.

The prophets have recorded detailed information about your very questions!
So it is a personal responsibility to decide what to do with this information.
Robert has made it plane what he is doing, he spoke out. Personally for me that’s all he needed to do. If we prove to ourselves what he has discovered is accurate, then its up to us what we do from here forward.
Truthseeker

Thank you for that Truthseeker, your correct its a personal decision as to what we do with what we have learnt, we would never have joined this board if everything had been the spiritual paradise it is suppose to be, Robert confirmed for me what I had seen in the scriptures and felt within the organisation. I prayed that Jehovah would reveal to me that I was not delusional. Despite the burden it carries when the veil has been lifted I praise Jah that I nolonger am blind but now I see the true light in all its glory.

Sisterly Love
Shikinah