How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

[one white robe]

How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

If you were Satan what trap could you create to deceive those who you had not previously deceived by false religion and other machination of evil?

How would Jehovah counter satan’s attempt to deceive the holy ones?


STEP 1: Understand the Prey & Gaining Their Trust

First (as any hunter or trapper would do), I would understand my prey (the elect)….just what motivates and moreso what entices them….the elect of God…. and use it against them (a basic operation of any trapper).

Having observed them for years I would realize that they have a passion for truth, a respect for the word of God, and an inner sense guided by Holy Spirit of what sounds like truth versus what sounds like a lie. That characteristic is what kept them from falling fully for my previous snares of false religion.

I would seize on their main fear – A DESIRE TO NEVER DIE (I used this tactic before in a garden called Eden – same tactic different century). I would realize that (like most humans) they would love the thought of living forever in a paradise (something that had been pretty much hidden from them by the previous religions I had created).

So I would go off and create a new religion (since I couldn’t reform the old and still keep the loyalty of the lost in those religions) that would seem so much like everything they were looking for. I would use the lure of Living Forever in Paradise on Earth to bait them. I would even use the bible (which they implicitly respect) to show them of this hope. (I could see the sugar plum fairies jumping in their heads for this bait …WOW! living forever in paradise….I need to explore this more they would all say – never heard of this before).

Once I had them hooked I would capitalize on their vulnerability (where else can they go now…no one else ever showed them about living forever in paradise – and from the bible yet) and show them other amazing truths I had hidden from Babylon – and once again using the bible to hypnotize them and earn their trust.

I would show them that God had a name. WOW. Never saw that before.

I would show them that Jesus was not God and never claimed to be God. WOW. These
people are amazing! How did they know this? How did I not see this before???

I would show them the issue of sovereignty that started in the garden after mankind sinned. I would show them the plan of the ages how God planned to restore mankind and the earth. I would show them the first prophesy about the seed of the woman and the serpent. WOW. Now I am getting hooked! Finally they understand why the earth is like this and how we are going to get out of this mess. Now they don’t have to rely on these useless governments which they implicitly hated. Never thought they could fix anything anyway. How come the churches never taught me this they will cry? This can’t be a coincidence. These people must be from God.

I would show them that there is no hell and introduce them to a few Hebrew and Greek words to impress them. I would explain what Jesus meant where their bibles used the word hell. WOW. WOW. WOW. I am impressed. They even use the original languages of scripture to uncover things. What brilliant people. These people have to be from God. No one could have figured this out on their own – They will say.

After I got them hooked I would expose my other churches as false religion. Now I got them because they had always known in their inner heart that something was wrong with these churches. Now they had proof. They always hated these ministers…..now they had a basis to hate them.. I would introduce them to Babylon the Great Whore so they would have a name to condemn what they hated. The bastards have been lying to me for years. I knew it said the student.

Baby baptism errors; Jesus didn’t die on a cross but a torture stake; you shouldn’t pray to the dead; etc…..Etc….. Truth that would resound in their heart and mind’s eye.

WOW! WOW! WOW!. Now I am hooked said the student. I am convinced. These people are from God. I need to start going to meetings and see what is going on here!
So now I had their loyalty by showing them nibbles of knowledge that no one else had ever shown them. I had convinced them that no one could have known these things except by the power of God.

ONCE I HAD THEM HOOKED I WOULD INTRODUCE A LIE THAT THEY WOULD SWALLOW AND THAT WOULD LEAD THEM TO DEATH. AFTERALL MY GOAL IS TO DESTROY THEM. THE BASIC TRUTH I TAUGHT THEM WAS JUST TO APPEAL TO THEIR LOVE FOR TRUTH AND GAIN THEIR TRUST. THE LIE IS YET TO COME AFTER THEY HAVE ABSORBED THE BABY FOOD.


Step 2: Use FEAR to heard and Control the Prey

Back to understanding the prey (the elect) and how to trap them further. What are some of their qualities other than a love for truth? Well, they are sheep-like. They have a deep respect for god and a fear of offending him. How can I use this against them?

So now that I have them convinced them that there is something special going on here I would show them that in the first century God had a structured organization that no one opposed it. Elders were appointed in the first century by the power of God. No one questioned the elders then! I would show them that you would be disfellowshiped in the first century for going against the elders. I would even show them that anyone who went against the first century organization was subject to everlasting destruction.


SO NOW I NOT ONLY HAD THEIR ATTENTION AND INITIAL LOYALTY BECAUSE OF THE KNOWLEDGE I SHOWED THEM BUT I HAD MANAGED TO SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THEM TO NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING TAUGHT BY THE ORGANIZATION. This is a mind blowing event in that I was able to transfer the first century environment to today’s world through trickery and deceit and use it to control people. I AM GOOD SAID THE PROUD DEVIL AS HIS DEMONS APPLAUDED. What’s next cried one demon. Hang on and I will show you said Satan.


Part 3: Lay a Trap once you have them cornered - The LIE about Rev 11

Here is where I would move in to introduce the lie that would lead to the kill. Having used bible truth to gain their trust and convinced them never to question anything taught I can now get them to accept anything – even lies that will lead to their death.

I WILL INTRODUCE THE GRAND LIE – THE 1914 LIE AND ALL DECEIPT THAT FLOWS FROM THAT DATE AND THE YEARS FOLLOWING THAT DATE.

I will teach them that 90% OF everything that is yet to occur has already occurred. That way they will not be on the lookout for my final deception and trick. They will be all caught up in their warm and fuzzy little secure world where all that they are waiting for is the final onslaught on false religion (which they are a part off) and the battle of Armageddon

THE KEY ASPECT OF THE LIE IS THAT THE TRUE FINAL PREACHING WORK OF 1260 DAYS (REV 11) SANCTIONED BY GOD HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

I will even convince them to justify the passage of almost 100 years since that work supposedly occurred. I will convince them that when the two prophets are taken up to heaven after the 1260 sanctioned days it does not mark the end of the preaching work. I will convince them that the meaning of the earth not being able to harm the two prophets is that the preaching work could no longer be stopped by mankind.

ONCE I HAVE DONE THIS THEN WE MOVE IN FOR THE KILL!

Part 4: The Kill

HERE IS THE KILL. WHEN JEHOVAH GOD CALL HIS CLEANSED SOULS – THOSE WHO SAW THE LIE – TO DO THE TRUE FINAL PREACHING WORK THE MASSES IN MY NEW ORGANIZATION WILL OPPOSE IT AND FIGHT AGAINST GOD WHILE THINKING THEY ARE RENDERING A SACRED SERVICE TO GOD.

Yes those who remain in the organization will stand with the dead pillars of that organization and label the two witnesses as apostates and antichrists – joining themselves to the mindset of the nations who will oppose Gods prophets. WOW SUDDENLY I HAVE THEM IN AGREEMENT WITH THE NATIONS! SOUNDS LIKE BABYLON TO ME (as he snickers about his double cross).

However to their dismay when the two witnesses are killed and are taken up to heaven those who remained in my trick will beat themselves in dismay. When the Lord destroys my false organization for sin they will have nowhere to turn.

THEY WILL BE COUNTED AMONG THOSE WHO OPPOSED THE CHOSEN THINGS OF GOD.

MY TRICK WILL BE COMPLETE AND I WILL HAVE SIPHONED OFF MANY WHO THE LORD HAD CALLED.

WHILE THEY MAY GET ANOTHER CHANCE DURING THE 1000 YEARS I WILL RISE AGAIN TO TRICK THEM AGAIN AT THE END OF THE 1,000 YEARS.


HOW JEHOVAH COUNTERS SATAN’S TRICK

Jehovah god has been watching you Satan. He has seen your trick you sly one! So here is what he will do. He will piggy back on your work. He will turn your work into his glory. He will use your work to strain out the good ones – his servants. The truth that you taught will resound and reside in the hearts of my servants. However the lies that you taught will – by my spirit be made known to them.

My servants will buy your truth but will reject your lies. They will wonder for a while going in and out of your trick. However at the last hour I will call them all out of your trick. I will use them to teach the nations for 1260 days. Then I will destroy your grand trick you used to deceive the elect. I will destroy the remnant of your lie as I will destroy you.

MY FAITHFULL ONES WILL HEAR MY VOICE AS THEY DID SINCE YESHUA MY SON DIED. I WILL SPEAK AND THEY WILL STREAM OUT OF YOUR TRICK. I WILL USE YOUR EFFORTS TO TEST THOSE WHO HEAR THE SHEPPARDS VOICE AND REJECT YOUR LIE.

So if anyone want to go back to the organization do as the spirit moves you. We can only be moved by two spirits. One leads to salvation. The other is a trickster who leads to death!

Good luck faithfuljw. You will need it because luck is all you will have to rely on.

Peace in the name of Jehovah and our Master Yeshua,

One White Robe

[SWORDOFJAH]

Satan have been decieving by: False religion,politics,economic system, and our own fallen flesh. That is why Paul wrote: “Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil .*.*. Take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm.”—Ephesians 6:11,*13.

[watchman]

Satan have been decieving by: False religion,politics,economic system, and our own fallen flesh. That is why Paul wrote: “Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil .*.*. Take up the complete suit of armor from God, that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm.”—Ephesians 6:11,*13.

You are missing the point. Jesus said that Satan's deception would be so convincing that it would deceive the chosen ones, if that were possible. So, the question is: if the chosen ones are no part of false religion and not susceptible to the deception emanating from Christendom, what makes them vulnerable to being deceived during the conclusion? The deception is the operation of error that God allows to go to his people. In the context of his discussion on the man of lawlessness Paul warned the brothers not to be taken in by official-sounding written letters and public proclamations declaring that the day of Jehovah is here. The day of Jehovah is the presence of Christ. So, Paul was foretelling that the chosen ones would be subjected to the declaration of a faux parousia. That is exactly what the WT teaches, a fake parousia. So, when the real parousia commences it is going to get interesting.

watchman

[shikinah]

OWR, this is real deep, so true we sometimes forget who satans enemies are, and its not the world, its not Christendom or the muslims but Christs remnant who he seeks. He has the rest eating out of the palm of his hand.
He is the wolf in sheeps clothing, the roaring lion seeking to devour, and he will save the best till last, pull out the trump card when least expected. He is the father of the lie and the former of it, we should not under estimate the workings of this beast, we pray its not this way but scriptures seem to support this view, I saw it myself before finding Roberts sight and it clarified my deepest fears. Yet I donnot condem those who choose to return to the organisation, as Jehovah may want to use them in different ways.
But yes we must keep alert and use this wisdom to encourage not discourage.


Shikinah

[SWORDOFJAH]

You are missing the point. Jesus said that Satan's deception would be so convincing that it would deceive the chosen ones, if that were possible. So, the question is: if the chosen ones are no part of false religion and not susceptible to the deception emanating from Christendom, what makes them vulnerable to being deceived during the conclusion? The deception is the operation of error that God allows to go to his people. In the context of his discussion on the man of lawlessness Paul warned the brothers not to be taken in by official-sounding written letters and public proclamations declaring that the day of Jehovah is here. The day of Jehovah is the presence of Christ. So, Paul was foretelling that the chosen ones would be subjected to the declaration of a faux parousia. That is exactly what the WT teaches, a fake parousia. So, when the real parousia commences it is going to get interesting.

watchman
what makes them vulnerable to being deceived during the conclusion?
The chosen ones are still here on earth. They can be mislead by false teachings and false individuals. That is why Matt. 24:24 says: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs [“miracles,” TEV] and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” So the annointed and the other sheep despite being in the truth they have to be careful and alert and not be mislead by false claims and false modern prophets.Jesus’ true disciples are eagerly awaiting the end of the present wicked system of things. While loyally doing so, we need to keep the right outlook toward all that is involved in Jesus’ presence and act accordingly. That will enable us to ‘endure to the end and be saved.’ (Matthew 24:13)

[watchman]

what makes them vulnerable to being deceived during the conclusion?
The chosen ones are still here on earth. They can be mislead by false teachings and false individuals. That is why Matt. 24:24 says: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs [“miracles,” TEV] and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” So the annointed and the other sheep despite being in the truth they have to be careful and alert and not be mislead by false claims and false modern prophets.Jesus’ true disciples are eagerly awaiting the end of the present wicked system of things. While loyally doing so, we need to keep the right outlook toward all that is involved in Jesus’ presence and act accordingly. That will enable us to ‘endure to the end and be saved.’ (Matthew 24:13)

Again, I don't think you are getting the point. Jehovah's Witnesses are not at all receptive to any voice not coming from Bethel. It would be virtually impossible for any outside influence to gain any sort of authority over JW's. The false prophets come from within. The very fact that JW's are absolutely convinced Christ has already come has set them up to be misled when the actual parousia commences.

[SWORDOFJAH]

Again, I don't think you are getting the point. Jehovah's Witnesses are not at all receptive to any voice not coming from Bethel. It would be virtually impossible for any outside influence to gain any sort of authority over JW's. The false prophets come from within. The very fact that JW's are absolutely convinced Christ has already come has set them up to be misled when the actual parousia commences.

Hello Watchman. Individuals are at risk to be decieved. Take for example Raymond Franz in modern time. What about those who lost their heavenly called as it is stated in the scriptures??? Yes my friend they can be decieved by satan and his followers.

[watchman]

Hello Watchman. Individuals are at risk to be decieved. Take for example Raymond Franz in modern time. What about those who lost their heavenly called as it is stated in the scriptures??? Yes my friend they can be decieved by satan and his followers.

Hi Sword of Jah

I think you are starting to get it. The only reason Ray Franz has any credibility with JW's is because he once was a member of the exclusive Governing Body. He was an insider - not an outsider, like the clergy. Had he not been a member of the GB he never could have had any influence over JW's. Still, Franz is largely irrelevant as regards the vast majority of JW's.

However, Jesus' prophecy regarding the potential for the chosen ones to be deceived indicates that the deception will be of such power that it must of necessity emanate from a trusted source - a voice that God's people trust.

I don't know if you have read any of the second edition of Jehovah Himself Has Become King (http://jehovah-has-become-king.com), but in the chapter entitled The Parousia, the case is made for a visible parousia. So, while Satan has tried to rig the coming of Christ by making anointed Christians believe Jesus is already here, Christ will shatter Satan's lock-down on the truth by revealing himself visibly to the chosen ones. That is why it will not be possible for Satan to mislead the chosen ones. They will see Christ. However, no one else will, making them vulnerable to Satan's false prophets and false christs.

watchman

watchman

[Tsaphah]

It's an age old, easy way for Satan. He has used it from the beginning. It's an English word that begins with the letter S, the same as Satan.

It is... SELF. It makes up words such as Selfish, Self important, Self indulgent, and so on.

It also includes the letter, I.

[FutureMan]

Hello Watchman. Individuals are at risk to be decieved. Take for example Raymond Franz in modern time. What about those who lost their heavenly called as it is stated in the scriptures??? Yes my friend they can be decieved by satan and his followers.

Hi SWORDOFJAH, once again I'm not trying to be contentious with you but I'm trying to reason with you, ok.

Now what I do want to ask you is this.

Are you yourself above being deceived?

Do you think the we on this forum are trying to deceive you?

Was Ray Franz deceived over 1914?

Who was the evil slave at that time that beat up on the other slaves in Christ's household?

Were there not quite a few that were expelled from the synagogues at that time?

So who is really deceiving who?

[FutureMan]

One more question SWORDOFJAH, how do you know who lost their heavenly calling?

Are you reasoning that because they were expelled from the Christian congregation that they have lost their heavenly calling?

Would you presume that watchman here who runs this forum and that you are a registered guest of as a member, has also lost his heavenly calling, because he was expelled from the congregation?

Let us assume for now that in one congregation, there was a group of corrupt elders who were not guided by the Holy Spirit, now before you hastily say that this is impossible, I tell you I know cases of where the entire body of Elders were removed and not only that, where entire congregations have being disbanded.

Now let us assume that a faithful anointed one was in one of these congregations and he was unrighteously removed because of him exposing some wrongdoing in the body of elders, such as perhaps a cover-up of someone involved in pedophilia, one of the elders.

Now would you say that this brother who is an anointed one would lose out on his heavenly inheritance, purely because he got disfellowshiped from the congregation, even though he was in the right spiritually speaking?

Now I do not know really the man Ray Franz as a Christian and I certainly do not know his heart condition, but I do know some of the circumstances leaded up to his resigning from the governing body and being expelled from the congregation as a whole and I must say that from the information that I have looked at it appears that the other governing body members were desperately trying to cover up the issues surrounding 1914, of which he raised for discussion and investigation.

Now as to his actually being expelled, he was caught out having lunch with one of his previous associates in the truth who had since become an apostate as by the definition of the Watchtower Society.

I believe that he was still an elder at the time.

Now would you say that based on the scriptures, that this alone is enough to have someone expelled from the congregation? Having lunch with someone perceived to be an apostate?

I do not have all the information on this situation but I have read eyewitness accounts by ones who were privy to this, ones who were in Bethel and in the organization.

[SWORDOFJAH]

[QUOTE=FutureMan;43905][SIZE=3]Hi SWORDOFJAH, once again I'm not trying to be contentious with you but I'm trying to reason with you, ok.

Now what I do want to ask you is this.

Are you yourself above being deceived?
No. Bu I am sure Satan will try.

Do you think the we on this forum are trying to deceive you?
No and I won't let anyone.

Was Ray Franz deceived over 1914?
Care to elaborate???

Who was the evil slave at that time that beat up on the other slaves in Christ's household?
The “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave.In a comparable way, after the death of the apostles, “oppressive wolves” came from the ranks of anointed Christian elders.—Acts 20:29,*30.

Were there not quite a few that were expelled from the synagogues at that time?
Yes

So who is really deceiving who?
Satan is decieving the entire world.That is why for JW'S is important to help these people.

[SWORDOFJAH]

[QUOTE=FutureMan;43918]One more question [SIZE=3][B]SWORDOFJAH, how do you know who lost their heavenly calling?
By their fruits.There are examples in the scriptures of few that turned away from the truth and lost their calling or opportunity to be with Christ.
Are you reasoning that because they were expelled from the Christian congregation that they have lost their heavenly calling?
No.*** w76 3/1 p. 158 Questions From Readers ***

Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?

Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.

Would you presume that watchman here who runs this forum and that you are a registered guest of as a member, has also lost his heavenly calling, because he was expelled from the congregation?
Jehovah knows, I am not his judge.

Let us assume for now that in one congregation, there was a group of corrupt elders who were not guided by the Holy Spirit, now before you hastily say that this is impossible, I tell you I know cases of where the entire body of Elders were removed and not only that, where entire congregations have being disbanded.

Now let us assume that a faithful anointed one was in one of these congregations and he was unrighteously removed because of him exposing some wrongdoing in the body of elders, such as perhaps a cover-up of someone involved in pedophilia, one of the elders.

Now would you say that this brother who is an anointed one would lose out on his heavenly inheritance, purely because he got disfellowshiped from the congregation, even though he was in the right spiritually speaking?
Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands.

Now I do not know really the man Ray Franz as a Christian and I certainly do not know his heart condition, but I do know some of the circumstances leaded up to his resigning from the governing body and being expelled from the congregation as a whole and I must say that from the information that I have looked at it appears that the other governing body members were desperately trying to cover up the issues surrounding 1914, of which he raised for discussion and investigation.

Now as to his actually being expelled, he was caught out having lunch with one of his previous associates in the truth who had since become an apostate as by the definition of the Watchtower Society.

I believe that he was still an elder at the time.

Now would you say that based on the scriptures, that this alone is enough to have someone expelled from the congregation? Having lunch with someone perceived to be an apostate?
There are more into that my friend.See what he has been saying concerning scriptual things. Totally away from the truth.

I do not have all the information on this situation but I have read eyewitness accounts by ones who were privy to this, ones who were in Bethel and in the organization.

I don't know either so I cannot comment on that.

[FutureMan]

[QUOTE=FutureMan;43905]Hi SWORDOFJAH, once again I'm not trying to be contentious with you but I'm trying to reason with you, ok.

Now what I do want to ask you is this.

Are you yourself above being deceived?
No. Bu I am sure Satan will try.

Do you think the we on this forum are trying to deceive you?
No and I won't let anyone.

Was Ray Franz deceived over 1914?
Care to elaborate???

Who was the evil slave at that time that beat up on the other slaves in Christ's household?
The “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave.In a comparable way, after the death of the apostles, “oppressive wolves” came from the ranks of anointed Christian elders.—Acts 20:29,*30.

Were there not quite a few that were expelled from the synagogues at that time?
Yes

So who is really deceiving who?
Satan is decieving the entire world.That is why for JW'S is important to help these people.

Ok let us go through your answers one at a time ok.

First you admit that you are not above being misled and that you are sure that Satan will try.
Fair enough comment, but the question is how do you know that you are not being deceived?

The only way that I can see that I am not deceived is to go back to God's word contained in the Bible.

Do you SWORDOFJAH, go back to the Bible, or do you refer to Watchtower literature?

In other words put simply which one has the last word for you? The Watchtower literature or God's Word?

Now you stated that you do not think that we on this forum are trying to deceive you.

Then do you think that we are deceiving ourselves or that Satan is deceiving most of us on this forum who do not put our faith in the Watchtower Society and it's "faithful slave".

Alternatively then do you think that on this forum, that you are one of the very few on this forum who are not deceived?

I admit that I have been deceived a number of times for a while by various things that I have read and perused on the Internet, do you admit to yourself that this is a possibility in your case?

Now you say that you won't let anyone deceive you, you sound so sure about this.

How sure are you that the Watchtower Society at least in part have not deceived you with what it terms as old light in the past?

Are you one hundred percent sure that you have not been deceived in any way?

Okay let us say that you are convinced that you have not been deceived.

Okay now we come to Ray Franz and 1914.

You are aware the brother Ray Franz was on the "writing committee" as well as serving on the governing body are you not?

He was one of those referred to as the "faithful slave" as he was one of the governing body members.

Now are you aware that he was involved in compiling the "Aid book"?

This was why the issue of 1914 came up, because he could not actually verify historically and by archeology that this date was actually correct.

Now I do not know whether this date is correct or incorrect, but still from the perspective of the governing body, this was a real problem as if this date could not be proven beyond any doubt then this would put the 1914 date as when the Gentile times were ended in jeopardy.

Ray Franz was questioning the very foundation that gave the "faithful and discreet slave" complete authority over the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, as they had taught that the faithful slave in around 1919 had being given authority over all of Christ's belongings.

This was why he resigned from the governing body, because he knew that they would remove him if he didn't because of his serious doubts as regarding the date of 607 BCE as being that date that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. As I had stated before this would effect the start of the "seven times of the gentiles"

Ray Franz also felt that the governing body that he was part of, had to much power over the organization.
According to him he had reservations about this and the policies that they used to consolidate their power.

Now my brother at one time you would have put your utmost faith in the writings of the aid book as being written under the direction of the Holy spirit, but if Ray Franz was an apostate as claimed by the Watchtower society, how sure are you that the aid book was really compiled with the aid of the Holy Spirit?

would you have still put your trust in this book which is part of Watchtower Society literature?

By your comment then you do not believe that the "evil slave" exists today in God's household, even though Jesus warned that evil slave that he would come at a time that he did not think, that he would come?

So do you think that the word synagogues only applied to the Christians back then, but does not apply in our day today?

What about this scripture in Revelation 2 which states [SIZE=3]in verse 9 I know your works, and the affliction, and the poverty; but you are rich. And I know the evil speaking of those saying themselves to be Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Who was he talking about, the literal power hungry Jews back then, but did not John say that he found himself to be in the Lord's day?

We know the time frame that he was in as regards this vision, because of this scripture further on that discusses the events that would lead to the complete demise of this system of things, religious and political powers.

So from my standpoint he would have to be talking about power hungry Spiritual Jews or those claiming to be spiritual Jews but are not as they are really the synagogue of Satan.

Now here is the catch if you say that the seven congregations only were talking about the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses then you could only be referring to those who are claiming to be of the anointed and had set up a figurative synagogue to worship in amongst God's people, the (synagogue of Satan).

But if you say that seven congregations are not really representative of the organization of Jehovah's witnesses then the clergy of Christendom could be said to be the false Jews, but then that would negate how the Watchtower literature has applied this understanding of the seven congregations to that of only Jehovah's Witnesses.

I made a mistake in this sentence "This was why the issue of 1914 came up, because he could not actually verify historically and by archeology that this date was actually correct." What I meant to say was the date of 607 BCE could not be verified of which the 1914 date hinged on as when the gentile times were ended.

Sorry about the confusion of this sentence.

[arimatthewdavies]

this is an ugly qustion, but i cant resist feeding into it. so i will be satan this morning! first alow me to apologize for being unkind in the past i will make it up to you! first lets get this religeion thing off to a new start, jesus is god i admit it .and sorry about those scary judgement pictures! so lets create a little helper for you !jesus being god is very busy and that bible is way to complicated to read all by yourself. how about the bible explaination weekly news paper? lots of pictures and updated weekly in many languages no need for you to dig through that old hard to read bible !because now specially trained men chosen by jesus will explain it for you and make you a compleate library of modern litterature cds, tapes. and dvds to entertain you with good up to date bible knowledge! and you can help make this world a better place and save lives just go out and give your neighbors the new and free weekly bible newspaper [they will donate to you] soon you will see a whole new way of life free from the folly of independant research, yes everybody can now beleive exactly alike worldwide forget that heaven and hell thinghy lets call it ,paradise and everlasting cuting off far less contraversy that way, now we can sit down like adults and i will show you all the many ways that ive changed to make this life better for you, free healthcare,free food for the poor, free money to help unmarried people raise babies, ive got free for a limited time colledge, house rebates,and cash grants, just be careful that you color inside the lines with all my new and wonderful programs makeing every thing so easey!

yup i dont have to deceive you, send demons, make wars, etc anymore just read your weekly bible explaination news paper and dont worry ive got every thing under control! peace.

well do i make a good devil or not!

[Utuna]

Dear OWR,

Thanks for that great post !

You asked :

How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

If I were Satan, I'd suppose that everybody would expect me to preempt or thwart God's plans the most possible. But, in reality, I wouldn't act as expected. Instead of acting against the fulfilment of the prophecies recorded in the Bible, I'd do my best to help them to be accomplished anyway in one way or the other. Regarding my own fate, I'd do the exact contrary of what the Bible prophecies foretell about it. I'd do my best to prove the Bible prophecies right, proving them wrong at the same time...

Then, "the elect" wouldn't know whether what they see happening comes from God or comes from me, unless God, in the end, expected me to act that way and then fulfill his Word anyway...

Jehovah is like a brilliant chess master, no matter what are the pieces I'd move, I'd end up the same way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[truthseeker]

Wow: The June 15, 2010 Watchtower first article concerning the annual meeting in October of 2009 highlighted several talks given by governing body members.
The one of interest is by John Bar: I do believe they have adjusted again the meaning of the generation. The contemporaries are the younger anointed that didn’t see the beginning of the signs in 1914 as the older anointed did. It is this generation of older and younger anointed together that make up the generation.
I could swear they interpreted back in 2007 that the generation was the original anointed in Jesus day until the last anointed would be on the earth now or in the immediate future?????????

There really hung up on this issue obviously!!!


http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNZNT

[truthseeker]

Dear OWR,

Thanks for that great post !

You asked :

How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

If I were Satan, I'd suppose that everybody would expect me to preempt or thwart God's plans the most possible. But, in reality, I wouldn't act as expected. Instead of acting against the fulfilment of the prophecies recorded in the Bible, I'd do my best to help them to be accomplished anyway in one way or the other. Regarding my own fate, I'd do the exact contrary of what the Bible prophecies foretell about it. I'd do my best to prove the Bible prophecies right, proving them wrong at the same time...

Then, "the elect" wouldn't know whether what they see happening comes from God or comes from me, unless God, in the end, expected me to act that way and then fulfill his Word anyway...

Jehovah is like a brilliant chess master, no matter what are the pieces I'd move, I'd end up the same way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton


Exactly Utuna:
The way Jehovah has created all his intelligent creatures is with “free will” and it is with this quality we all play the game of life. But Jehovah is the master of it for he is the one who invented it! ;)

[arimatthewdavies]

i vote for truthseeker !that idea is truely diabolical leave it to a good jehovahs wittness to know what the devil would do! l.o.l

[SWORDOFJAH]

[QUOTE=FutureMan;43928][QUOTE=SWORDOFJAH;43921]

Ok let us go through your answers one at a time ok.

First you admit that you are not above being misled and that you are sure that Satan will try.
Fair enough comment, but the question is how do you know that you are not being deceived?

Concernig biblical truths,I am i the right place my friend.In Jehovah's organization.

The only way that I can see that I am not deceived is to go back to God's word contained in the Bible.

Do you SWORDOFJAH, go back to the Bible, or do you refer to Watchtower literature?

We study the Bilble. Our publications are Bible based.

In other words put simply which one has the last word for you? The Watchtower literature or God's Word?

Our literature is Bible based.

Now you stated that you do not think that we on this forum are trying to deceive you.


Then do you think that we are deceiving ourselves or that Satan is deceiving most of us on this forum who do not put our faith in the Watchtower Society and it's "faithful slave".

First JW'S are not encourage anyone to put faith in any legal entity or men,but faith in Jehovah's promises via JesusChrist.

Alternatively then do you think that on this forum, that you are one of the very few on this forum who are not deceived?

I can only speak for myself.

I admit that I have been deceived a number of times for a while by various things that I have read and perused on the Internet, do you admit to yourself that this is a possibility in your case?

It could happen if I start believing things that are against the Bible.

Now you say that you won't let anyone deceive you, you sound so sure about this.

I am fighthing the good fight for the truth against dogmas that displeases God.

How sure are you that the Watchtower Society at least in part have not deceived you with what it terms as old light in the past?

Because my brothers are humble enough to admit that when some point need new approach on understanding it is said and published.

Are you one hundred percent sure that you have not been deceived in any way?

In the past when I went to church and taught me about a trinity God,hellfire,inmortal soul,earth destruction ect....

Okay let us say that you are convinced that you have not been deceived.

Okay now we come to Ray Franz and 1914.

You are aware the brother Ray Franz was on the "writing committee" as well as serving on the governing body are you not?
Yes
He was one of those referred to as the "faithful slave" as he was one of the governing body members.

Now are you aware that he was involved in compiling the "Aid book"?
I have not read anything that he said about this.

This was why the issue of 1914 came up, because he could not actually verify historically and by archeology that this date was actually correct.

Now I do not know whether this date is correct or incorrect, but still from the perspective of the governing body, this was a real problem as if this date could not be proven beyond any doubt then this would put the 1914 date as when the Gentile times were ended in jeopardy.

Ray Franz was questioning the very foundation that gave the "faithful and discreet slave" complete authority over the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, as they had taught that the faithful slave in around 1919 had being given authority over all of Christ's belongings.

I believe as scriptures said Jesus gave the FDS a job to do and they are doing so.

This was why he resigned from the governing body, because he knew that they would remove him if he didn't because of his serious doubts as regarding the date of 607 BCE as being that date that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. As I had stated before this would effect the start of the "seven times of the gentiles"

Perhaps he needed to work on his christian fruits.

Ray Franz also felt that the governing body that he was part of, had to much power over the organization.
According to him he had reservations about this and the policies that they used to consolidate their power.

His opinion. But not Jesus who gave a job to do to these brothers.

Now my brother at one time you would have put your utmost faith in the writings of the aid book as being written under the direction of the Holy spirit, but if Ray Franz was an apostate as claimed by the Watchtower society, how sure are you that the aid book was really compiled with the aid of the Holy Spirit?

We believe that only the Bible was writen under the holy spirit.

would you have still put your trust in this book which is part of Watchtower Society literature?

We put our faith and trust To Jehovah and Jesus. Also the men he has appointed to do the job that they are doing right now.

By your comment then you do not believe that the "evil slave" exists today in God's household, even though Jesus warned that evil slave that he would come at a time that he did not think, that he would come?

Evil could affect anyone,that is why we are encourage to make sure of the spiritual things.

So do you think that the word synagogues only applied to the Christians back then, but does not apply in our day today?

Every scripture showed us something.We can learn from the past to work everyday and with a clear vision on the future.

[Gabriel]

Hi Sword of Jah

I think you are starting to get it. The only reason Ray Franz has any credibility with JW's is because he once was a member of the exclusive Governing Body. He was an insider - not an outsider, like the clergy. Had he not been a member of the GB he never could have had any influence over JW's. Still, Franz is largely irrelevant as regards the vast majority of JW's.

However, Jesus' prophecy regarding the potential for the chosen ones to be deceived indicates that the deception will be of such power that it must of necessity emanate from a trusted source - a voice that God's people trust.

I don't know if you have read any of the second edition of Jehovah Himself Has Become King (http://jehovah-has-become-king.com), but in the chapter entitled The Parousia, the case is made for a visible parousia. So, while Satan has tried to rig the coming of Christ by making anointed Christians believe Jesus is already here, Christ will shatter Satan's lock-down on the truth by revealing himself visibly to the chosen ones. That is why it will not be possible for Satan to mislead the chosen ones. They will see Christ. However, no one else will, making them vulnerable to Satan's false prophets and false christs.

watchman

watchman

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

[shikinah]

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

No it doesnt seem fair, but its the same as the Israelites when John the Baptist preached Christs coming, and if we think about how Jesus was rejected by the very ones he came to save, it shows us that these very ones listened to men rather than take heed of what was written in the scriptures. Jesus clearly said, its how we treat his brothers is what will count in the end. We also have scriptures which are yet to be fulfilled, which speaks of not being able to buy or sell, and the hour of test which all will endure .
How many who we see as faithful today will understand or take heed to what is written? What about those today who are christs brothers, which have been labled apostate and rejected? If JW's do not heed the signs and examine scripture for themselves, they will fall into the same trap, the first century followers did. Most witnesses think the test which will come from within the organisation, is just putting up with one another, they havnt a clue because they have put their trust in earthling man and not in Jehovah and his son Christ Jesus.

Shikinah

[watchman]

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

The deal is, the world is a mess. People are for the most part evil. Jehovah knows how to fix it though. He has determined how best to separate the sheep from the goats; the true from the false. People are inclined to worship all kinds of things. The apostle John was so overawed by the revelation he received he tried to worship the angel who gave him the vision. He was a human, like us.

JW's have subtly been induced to worship the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. After all, the Society has taught us the basic truth of the Bible. They have God's favor. All we got to do is what they say, right? No, not exactly.

Jehovah has used the WT to prepare a people to enter the Promised Land, to inherit the earth. But first they must demonstrate that they love and trust Jehovah and are not mere followers of the WBTS. That is why God has allowed an operation of error to have its way among his people. BUT...pass under Jehovah's judgment rod and you are in. Hey, you are half way there man. Don't give in to despair and confusion.

watchman

[Molly]

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

Yes Gabriel, the deception is that powerful. It is something that is very hard for anyone to reject because it has been here the whole time (since the first century) and very few have noticed. Tyndale noticed. Erasmus did too. Luther also noticed toward the end of his life. And lots of others have over the years as well.

The deception is Paul, but it is almost impossible to get anyone to acknowledge Paul's errors. People love Paul so much more than Christ they will disregard almost everything Christ said if only they can agree with Paul. So, while giving lipservice to Jesus, they follow Paul instead and reject the commandments Jesus gave us from our Father. Jesus was the Father's spokesman, not Paul. Jesus came from the Father to deliver the message firsthand. Paul didn't. Paul is like the Pharisees, he has watered down the requirements of Jehovah, even dismissing them as passe, but there is nothing in Jesus' message to suggest that that was ever to be the case. Rather, the prophesies (Is. 42:21; Jer.31:31-34) tell us that he would renew the love of the commandments so that they could be written on one's heart. If you don't love the commandments, how can you have God's spirit?

Gabriel (and others), I don't expect you to believe me, rather what I expect is that you will probably scoff, but it doesn't change the fact that love of and obedience to the commandments stressed by Christ will be a distinguishing characteristic of those who have Jehovah's spirit. In fact they are a requirement to enter the city New Jerusalem. Note Revelation 22:14 (Peshitta): "Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." These are Jesus' words, are they not? And decades after his death and resurrection, but he still stresses the requirement of obedience to the commandments. It's just a matter of whether you believe Jesus, or prefer Paul. It is your choice.

Molly

[watchman]

Yes Gabriel, the deception is that powerful. It is something that is very hard for anyone to reject because it has been here the whole time (since the first century) and very few have noticed. Tyndale noticed. Erasmus did too. Luther also noticed toward the end of his life. And lots of others have over the years as well.

The deception is Paul, but it is almost impossible to get anyone to acknowledge Paul's errors. People love Paul so much more than Christ they will disregard almost everything Christ said if only they can agree with Paul. So, while giving lipservice to Jesus, they follow Paul instead and reject the commandments Jesus gave us from our Father. Jesus was the Father's spokesman, not Paul. Jesus came from the Father to deliver the message firsthand. Paul didn't. Paul is like the Pharisees, he has watered down the requirements of Jehovah, even dismissing them as passe, but there is nothing in Jesus' message to suggest that that was ever to be the case. Rather, the prophesies (Is. 42:21; Jer.31:31-34) tell us that he would renew the love of the commandments so that they could be written on one's heart. If you don't love the commandments, how can you have God's spirit?

Gabriel (and others), I don't expect you to believe me, rather what I expect is that you will probably scoff, but it doesn't change the fact that love of and obedience to the commandments stressed by Christ will be a distinguishing characteristic of those who have Jehovah's spirit. In fact they are a requirement to enter the city New Jerusalem. Note Revelation 22:14 (Peshitta): "Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." These are Jesus' words, are they not? And decades after his death and resurrection, but he still stresses the requirement of obedience to the commandments. It's just a matter of whether you believe Jesus, or prefer Paul. It is your choice.

Molly

Molly must be a member of the modern, anti-typical Corinthian congregation. Under the influence of the "superfine apostles" the original Corinthians dissed Paul as a weak Christian and contemptible speaker. Incredibly, after all these centuries brother Paul is still getting disrespected. I think it is astounding.

Paul, of course, was driven to madness to defend himself. Reminding the Corinthians of his great sufferings in behalf of Christ.

I suspect that no one on this earth has ever suffered for Jesus as had Paul. Sad that so many who claim to follow Jesus spit upon those whom Jesus most loves.

watchman

[mrgalleria]

Alo ha,
Congratulation Molly- you are the only one who understood what Jesus was warning about.
Now the rest of you can see why it is so.

Zachariah 11:15, 16 "Take yet for yourself the implements of a useless shepherd.
For here I am letting a shepherd rise up in the land.
To the sheep being effaced he will give no attention..."

1 John 2:18,19 "...as you have heard that antichrist is coming,
even now there have come many antichrists...They went out from us..."

1 John 2:26,27 "These things I write you about those who are trying to mislead you....
you do not need anyone to be teaching you..."

Hear, breath, and drink Jesus, and you will please god.
Bill

Quote "I suspect that no one on this earth has ever suffered for Jesus as had Paul."
How true, for no one confesses this fact more than Paul himself, how convenient.
After all, Paul teaches that Jesus died for HIM, and Paul suffered for the world (Gal. 2:20, Gal. 6:14).
Even Paul was called from his mothers womb (Gal. 1:15)
Paul taught we should imitate him, not Jesus (Phil. 3:17)
Believe Paul, not even the angels (Gal. 1:6)

[Cephalon]

Now whom should I believe regarding Paul?

The first century Christians such as Peter, Luke, Apollos etc.. who were there with Paul, believed and viewed Paul as genuine brother...

Or

The 'Johnny-come-lately' "superfine apostles" of our times who believe Paul to be a fraud?

I think the choice is pretty clear..

[watchman]

Okay, here we go. I will give Mister Galleria and Molly an opportunity to clarify their positions regarding the apostle Paul, or otherwise I will personally delete your accounts on this forum. You have 24 hours.

watchman

[Jahsdisciple]

Hi Sword of Jah

I think you are starting to get it. The only reason Ray Franz has any credibility with JW's is because he once was a member of the exclusive Governing Body. He was an insider - not an outsider, like the clergy. Had he not been a member of the GB he never could have had any influence over JW's. Still, Franz is largely irrelevant as regards the vast majority of JW's.

However, Jesus' prophecy regarding the potential for the chosen ones to be deceived indicates that the deception will be of such power that it must of necessity emanate from a trusted source - a voice that God's people trust.

I don't know if you have read any of the second edition of Jehovah Himself Has Become King (http://jehovah-has-become-king.com), but in the chapter entitled The Parousia, the case is made for a visible parousia. So, while Satan has tried to rig the coming of Christ by making anointed Christians believe Jesus is already here, Christ will shatter Satan's lock-down on the truth by revealing himself visibly to the chosen ones. That is why it will not be possible for Satan to mislead the chosen ones. They will see Christ. However, no one else will, making them vulnerable to Satan's false prophets and false christs.

watchman

watchman

Watchman
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Matthew 24:24"

If I understand properly,this verse with the expression "even the elect." ..is during the Lords day,not before.So,how can it be possible that if the chosen ones have been chosen and have seen Jesus at some time during the very begining of the 42 months,how can they be really decieved in any way...esp by the idea of the false parousia ?

If 1914 is wrong,well they have fallen for it. But the expression “even the elect” is DURING the last days/42 months.
Jahsdisciple.

[truthseeker]

Okay, here we go. I will give Mister Galleria and Molly an opportunity to clarify their positions regarding the apostle Paul, or otherwise I will personally delete your accounts on this forum. You have 24 hours.

watchman

Nice!
Its about time!
Why would anyone degrade the holy scriptures! Who do you think you are people!

Love truthseeker

[Jahsdisciple]

Its not possible ! This is like the expression used by Luke in the account about Jesus being tempted and how satan tempted him:"so the devil,having concluded all the tempatations,retired from him until another convenient time".

In all serious ways,Jesus had been "tempted". This didnt mean that satan had given up putting Jesus under incredible pressure..he had 3.5 years to ''endure"...this is differant from "specially designed temptations" that satan had planned as opposed to being 'tempted' to give in under pressure.

Those who have been SEALED as Jesus brothers have beed tested through a life-time of faith. The account in Revelation says,satan has been accusing these brothers day and night. So,long before they are sealed,what happened with Job and what satan said about him,has also been said about Jesus brothers.The 'Job-like" trials all happen before they are sealed as Jesus brothers.

Could there possibly be anything thrown at them they havnt already faced ? No !

When this expression is used during the Lords Day,satan goes of to wage war with the brothers of Jesus.So things will be bad for them in some way.They now have to endure the ravages of war for 3.5 years.

"to decieve,if possible, even the elect." is refering to the signs that satan will make happen to distract people like he did in Egypt. They will be so amasing that it MIGHT seem possible to decieve even the chosen ones. BUT...considering they have already seen Jesus in some way,how could the chosen ones be decieved in any way? They have seen Jesus ! Nothing satan could do would even come close to that !

Who would fall for the lame attempts of satan to draw attention away from the real signs like the 10 plaques in Egypt that satan couldnt copy and stop the real issue from being seen.

The expression is an oxymoron...you would have to be one to be decieved by them. Being decieved about the real last days is another matter.

[Molly]

Watchman-

There is no reason for me to defend my position. It is clear - I believe what Jesus preached. He preached observance of the Law Covenant (the Ten Commandments). If you don't believe what Jesus preached what is there to say?

Paul argues that the Law Covenant was abrogated at Christ's death. Jesus, after his death and just prior to his ascension states that we should obey everything he taught, which includes the Law Covenant. Then decades later in his revelation to John, Christ affirms that the commandments are still to be observed if we want access to the city New Jerusalem. Who is the liar? You say the liar is Christ because you accept Paul's argument that the Law was done away with by Christ's death. Jesus say "NOT." So, you deny Christ's word, which means that you deny the Father. That's a scarey place to be in.

If you want to delete my account, Robert, that is your business, but as a watchman, I have warned you.

Molly

[mrgalleria]

Apostate Paul is the antichrist we were warned about.
You did not respond to scripture, because you cannot.

Jesus said "...the truth will set you free." John 8:32
Paul said "...I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus..."

Jesus said "...when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you,
just as the hypocrites do..." Matt. 6:2
Paul said "and with a loud voice: "Stand up erect on your feet..."" Acts 14:10

Jesus said to the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," Matt. 28:19
Paul said "For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing,
but to go declaring the good news..." 1 Cor. 1:17

Jesus said "...when you pray, go into your private room and,
after shutting the door, pray to your Father..." Matt. 6:6
Paul said "...I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands..." 1 Tim. 2:8

"Then Pilate said to him: "Do you not hear how many things they are testifying against you?"
Yet he did not answer him, no, not a word, so that the governor wondered very much." Matt. 27:13,14.
Paul said "...Jesus, who as a witness, made the fine public declaration
before Pontius Pilate..." 1 Tim. 6:13

Jesus said "But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him;
for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47
Paul said "You hand such a man over to Satan..." 1 Cor. 5:5

Jesus said "Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them...He is like a man
...who...laid a foundation upon the rock-mass..." Luke 6:47,48.
Paul said "...as a wise director of works I laid a foundation..." 1 Cor. 3:10.

Jesus said "Letting go the commandment of God, you hold fast the tradition of men." Mark 7:8
Paul said "Now we are giving you orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition
you received from us." (me) 2 Thes. 3:6

Jesus said "Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find;
keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you." Matt. 7:7
Paul said "...God selected you from the beginning...To this very destiny he called you..." 2 Thes. 2:13,14

Jesus said "But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind;" Luke 14:13
Paul said "...a widow...not less than sixty years old, a wife of one husband,
having a witness born to her for fine works, if she reared children, if she entertained strangers,
if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she relieved those in tribulation,
if she diligently followed every good work." 1 Tim. 5:9,10

Jesus said "If, though, you want to enter into life,
observe the commandments continually." Matt. 19:17-19
Paul said "...it is Gods gift...No, it is not owing to works..." Eph. 2:8-9

Jesus "...formed a group of twelve, whom he also named "apostles"..." Mark 3:14
Paul said "...consider the apostle...-Jesus." Heb. 3:1

Apostle John said "...And he (Jesus) sent forth his angel..." Rev. 1:1
Paul said "but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels,
crowned with glory..." Heb. 2:9

Opening text for Greek Scriptures-
"The book of the history of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham:" Matt. 1:1
"The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ:" Mark 1:1
"Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts
that are given full credence among us," Luke 1:1
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." John 1:1
"The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the things
Jesus started both to do and to teach," Acts 1:1.
"Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ and called to be an apostle, separated to God's good news," Romans 1:1
"Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through God's will, and Sosthenes our brother" 1 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, and Timothy our brother to the ..." 2 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ..." Gal. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, to the holy ones..." Eph. 1:1
"Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones..." Phil. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will..." Colossians 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 1 Thess. 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 2 Thess. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 1 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 2 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, a slave of God..." Titus 1:1
"Paul, a prisoner..." Philemon 1
Jesus said "If I alone bear witness about myself, my witness is not true." John 5:31

1 Tim. 1:20 "Hymenaeus and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them
over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."
Does this not prove that Paul actually murdered these ones?
Maybe it was for his murders he was imprisoned?
Do you think Jesus would choose a murderous pharisee as an apostle?
Do you think Jesus would blind someone?

The writing's of first and second Peter are believed by some to be counterfeit.
Likely written under Paul's direction, when considering terminology, contents, and structure.

Jesus prophesy of false apostate scripture-
"While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat...
Let them grow together...and in the harvest...collect the weeds...to burn them..."
Matt. 13:24-30. This is explained at 36-43. The "weeds" are the sons of Satan,
and their teaching is among the "wheat"- sons of the kingdom.

Jude said ""In the last time there will be ridiculers,..."

Robert King- Now you will be judged as you have judged-
for you have 24 hours to respond to this reasoning from God, the Son Jesus,
and the true apostles of Jesus. The damage you will receive in your failure to do so
will be that you will remain in apostacy rather than coming to Jesus.
Bill

[FutureMan]

Apostate Paul is the antichrist we were warned about.
You did not respond to scripture, because you cannot.

Jesus said "...the truth will set you free." John 8:32
Paul said "...I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus..."

Jesus said "...when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you,
just as the hypocrites do..." Matt. 6:2
Paul said "and with a loud voice: "Stand up erect on your feet..."" Acts 14:10

Jesus said to the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," Matt. 28:19
Paul said "For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing,
but to go declaring the good news..." 1 Cor. 1:17

Jesus said "...when you pray, go into your private room and,
after shutting the door, pray to your Father..." Matt. 6:6
Paul said "...I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands..." 1 Tim. 2:8

"Then Pilate said to him: "Do you not hear how many things they are testifying against you?"
Yet he did not answer him, no, not a word, so that the governor wondered very much." Matt. 27:13,14.
Paul said "...Jesus, who as a witness, made the fine public declaration
before Pontius Pilate..." 1 Tim. 6:13

Jesus said "But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him;
for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47
Paul said "You hand such a man over to Satan..." 1 Cor. 5:5

Jesus said "Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them...He is like a man
...who...laid a foundation upon the rock-mass..." Luke 6:47,48.
Paul said "...as a wise director of works I laid a foundation..." 1 Cor. 3:10.

Jesus said "Letting go the commandment of God, you hold fast the tradition of men." Mark 7:8
Paul said "Now we are giving you orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition
you received from us." (me) 2 Thes. 3:6

Jesus said "Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find;
keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you." Matt. 7:7
Paul said "...God selected you from the beginning...To this very destiny he called you..." 2 Thes. 2:13,14

Jesus said "But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind;" Luke 14:13
Paul said "...a widow...not less than sixty years old, a wife of one husband,
having a witness born to her for fine works, if she reared children, if she entertained strangers,
if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she relieved those in tribulation,
if she diligently followed every good work." 1 Tim. 5:9,10

Jesus said "If, though, you want to enter into life,
observe the commandments continually." Matt. 19:17-19
Paul said "...it is Gods gift...No, it is not owing to works..." Eph. 2:8-9

Jesus "...formed a group of twelve, whom he also named "apostles"..." Mark 3:14
Paul said "...consider the apostle...-Jesus." Heb. 3:1

Apostle John said "...And he (Jesus) sent forth his angel..." Rev. 1:1
Paul said "but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels,
crowned with glory..." Heb. 2:9

Opening text for Greek Scriptures-
"The book of the history of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham:" Matt. 1:1
"The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ:" Mark 1:1
"Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts
that are given full credence among us," Luke 1:1
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." John 1:1
"The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the things
Jesus started both to do and to teach," Acts 1:1.
"Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ and called to be an apostle, separated to God's good news," Romans 1:1
"Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through God's will, and Sosthenes our brother" 1 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, and Timothy our brother to the ..." 2 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ..." Gal. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, to the holy ones..." Eph. 1:1
"Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones..." Phil. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will..." Colossians 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 1 Thess. 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 2 Thess. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 1 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 2 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, a slave of God..." Titus 1:1
"Paul, a prisoner..." Philemon 1
Jesus said "If I alone bear witness about myself, my witness is not true." John 5:31

1 Tim. 1:20 "Hymenaeus and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them
over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."
Does this not prove that Paul actually murdered these ones?
Maybe it was for his murders he was imprisoned?
Do you think Jesus would choose a murderous pharisee as an apostle?
Do you think Jesus would blind someone?

The writing's of first and second Peter are believed by some to be counterfeit.
Likely written under Paul's direction, when considering terminology, contents, and structure.

Jesus prophesy of false apostate scripture-
"While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat...
Let them grow together...and in the harvest...collect the weeds...to burn them..."
Matt. 13:24-30. This is explained at 36-43. The "weeds" are the sons of Satan,
and their teaching is among the "wheat"- sons of the kingdom.

Jude said ""In the last time there will be ridiculers,..."

Robert King- Now you will be judged as you have judged-
for you have 24 hours to respond to this reasoning from God, the Son Jesus,
and the true apostles of Jesus. The damage you will receive in your failure to do so
will be that you will remain in apostacy rather than coming to Jesus.
Bill

Hi Bill what on earth is going on with you?

You quoted this scripture of what Paul said "...I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus..."

Here is it in it's context.

Philemon 1 [LITV]
1 Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy the brother, to Philemon the beloved and our fellow-worker,

From my standpoint Paul was using a word to describe how he was bound to Jesus Christ and the work of preaching the Good news of the Kingdom.

Paul my have used the wrong choice of words here, but his motive was good and he was in no way negating what Jesus stated "...the truth will set you free." John 8:32.

Next you used this statement : Jesus said "...when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you,
just as the hypocrites do..." Matt. 6:2
Paul said "and with a loud voice: "Stand up erect on your feet..."" Acts 14:10

Okay let us look at one of Jesus miracles and what he said at this time.

...He said to the paralytic,
11 I say to you, Rise up and take up your cot and go to your house.

Would you not say that Jesus stated this with an authoritative voice?
Was Jesus blowing his trumpet in this case?

But let us see what happened after-wards in Paul's case as regards his miracle, in the context of this scripture.

9 This one heard Paul speaking, who, looking intently at him, and seeing that he had faith to be cured,
10 he said with a loud voice, Stand upright on your feet! And he leaped up and walked about.
11 And seeing what Paul did, the crowd lifted up their voice in Lycaonian, saying, The gods have come down to us, becoming like men.
12 And they called Barnabas, Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the leader in speaking.
13 And the priest of Zeus being before their city, carrying bulls and garlands to the gates, he wished to sacrifice along with the crowds.
14 But Paul and Barnabas, the apostles, hearing, tearing their garments, they sprang into the crowd, crying out,
15 and saying, Men, why do you do these things? We also are men of like feelings to you, announcing the gospel to you to turn you from these vanities to the living God, who "made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all things in them,

Now in it's context does this sound like a man who is not humble?

Obviously he did not have the superior insight and wisdom of Christ, as after all he was an imperfect man, he did not realize the situation that he would be causing, if he did, perhaps he might have done it a little bit differently.

Also how was Paul able to achieve these miracles?
Was it not by the power of the Holy spirit, or are you attributing this to the power of Satan?

Now you made this next statement,

Jesus said to the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," Matt. 28:19
Paul said "For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing,
but to go declaring the good news..." 1 Cor. 1:17

Again you are taking things out of it's context.

Was Paul refusing to baptize anyone, or was he simply just stating that his main purpose was to spearhead the Good News about the Christ.

Here is the context of this scripture,
10 Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you all say the same, and there be no divisions among you, but you be united in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For concerning you, my brothers, it was shown to me by those of Chloe that there are strifes among you.
12 But I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ.
13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?
14 I give thanks to God that I did not baptize one of you, except Crispus and Gaius,
15 that not anyone should say that you were baptized in my name.
16 And I also baptized the house of Stephanas. For the rest, I do not know if I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to announce the gospel,

So there it is in it's context for everyone to see.

He did not want to baptize anymore for fear that they would become disciples of himself rather than of Jesus.

You next made this statement,

Jesus said "...when you pray, go into your private room and,
after shutting the door, pray to your Father..." Matt. 6:6
Paul said "...I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands..." 1 Tim. 2:8

What was Paul actually talking about here?

Was he talking about private prayers?

Let us read it in it's context.
8 Therefore, I desire the men to pray in every place, lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting.
9 So also the women to adorn themselves in proper clothing, with modesty and sensibleness, not with plaiting, or gold, or pearls, or expensive garments,
10 but what becomes women professing fear of God, through good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
12 And I do not allow a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.

It looks like to me that Paul was talking about public prayers in behalf of the congregation if we look at the context of this scripture and who should be giving these prayers.

I do not have time here to go through all the scriptures that you have quoted about Paul and what he said but I think that it is suffice to say that it appears that the scriptures you have quoted are out of context or you are imputing something when it means something else.

Also you mentioned about Paul testifying about himself but at least one other Apostle also started of his letters in the same way did he not?

The apostle Peter.

1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, of Galatia, of Cappadocia, of Asia, and of Bithynia,
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you.

[watchman]

Watchman-


If you want to delete my account, Robert, that is your business, but as a watchman, I have warned you.

Molly

Thanks for the warning Molly. I'll take my chances. I have had your account closed.

[watchman]

Robert King- Now you will be judged as you have judged-
for you have 24 hours to respond to this reasoning from God, the Son Jesus,
and the true apostles of Jesus. The damage you will receive in your failure to do so
will be that you will remain in apostacy rather than coming to Jesus.
Bill

I don't need 24 hours. I have responded. Your account is closed.

[shikinah]

Jesus said, that serving him wouldnt be easy, carrying the torture stake brings with it many woes, if family members are to be devided over truth, what more will it be for us who are a spiritual family?
May Jehovah help us to be prepared for what ever lays ahead in these very wicked times we are living in.


Luke 12:49-53 "I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50: In-deed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!
Do you imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed I tell you, but rather divisions. 52: For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53: They will be devided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against (her) mother, mother in-law against (her) daughter-in law and daughter in-law against (her) mother-in-law"

Shikinah

[watchman]

Watchman
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Matthew 24:24"

If I understand properly,this verse with the expression "even the elect." ..is during the Lords day,not before.So,how can it be possible that if the chosen ones have been chosen and have seen Jesus at some time during the very begining of the 42 months,how can they be really decieved in any way...esp by the idea of the false parousia ?

If 1914 is wrong,well they have fallen for it. But the expression “even the elect” is DURING the last days/42 months.
Jahsdisciple.

I do not think Jesus will reveal himself at the very beginning of the revelation. There is a dramatic buildup to the revealation of Christ. Nor will he reveal himself to all of the elect at once. It must follow the pattern of his post resurrection appearances. If you recall Jesus appeared to the disciples individually at first. Then towards the end of his forty days on earth he appeared to over 500.

So, the first part of the conclusion will be a time of great confusion, just as it was for the disciples when Christ was arrested and executed.

I suspect, though, that Jesus will reveal himself first to the newly anointed and last to the old timers, so that the first will be last and the last first.

[Utuna]

Dear SwordOfJah,

You said :

"Do you SWORDOFJAH, go back to the Bible, or do you refer to Watchtower literature?

We study the Bilble. Our publications are Bible based. "

Your answer doesn't mean anything. A good part of my family is hard-core catholics and many of the books they have in their bookcase are based on the Bible and quote it very often. Despite the wrong conclusions drawn in their pages, they contain a lot of knowledge and interesting details to ponder over.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[truthseeker]

I do not think Jesus will reveal himself at the very beginning of the revelation. There is a dramatic buildup to the revealation of Christ. Nor will he reveal himself to all of the elect at once. It must follow the pattern of his post resurrection appearances. If you recall Jesus appeared to the disciples individually at first. Then towards the end of his forty days on earth he appeared to over 500.

So, the first part of the conclusion will be a time of great confusion, just as it was for the disciples when Christ was arrested and executed.

I suspect, though, that Jesus will reveal himself first to the newly anointed and last to the old timers, so that the first will be last and the last first.

Re: How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

Wow: The June 15, 2010 Watchtower first article concerning the annual meeting in October of 2009 highlighted several talks given by governing body members.
The one of interest is by John Bar: I do believe they have adjusted again the meaning of the generation. The contemporaries are the younger anointed that didn’t see the beginning of the signs in 1914 as the older anointed did. It is this generation of older and younger anointed together that make up the generation.
I could swear they interpreted back in 2007 that the generation was the original anointed in Jesus day until the last anointed would be on the earth now or in the immediate future?????????

There really hung up on this issue obviously!!!
They “bethel” seem to understand there are older and newer anointed at this time, which indicates some may be coming around; maybe!!!



http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNZNT (http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNZNT)

[watchman]

Truthseeker, I clicked on the download link. I thought the revamped AWAKE! was going to be more oriented towards Bible topics.

Stress-A Serious Health Threat?
The Northern Bald Ibis?
Osteoporosis-A Silent Disease?
Protecting Your Family from the Flu?
As Iron Ribbon from Sea to Sea?

Apparently the guys in the editors' department didn't get the memo.

watchman

[truthseeker]

Truthseeker, I clicked on the download link. I thought the revamped AWAKE! was going to be more oriented towards Bible topics.

Stress-A Serious Health Threat?
The Northern Bald Ibis?
Osteoporosis-A Silent Disease?
Protecting Your Family from the Flu?
As Iron Ribbon from Sea to Sea?

Apparently the guys in the editors' department didn't get the memo.

watchman

Old habits die hard!
I was raised in the Org and I remember a very intellectual Brother (who was stumbled by the way due to the Generations adjustment right out of the Org) told me the Org is like a pendulum they swing one way to far and then they adjust back and it starts the momentum going the other way. Its like there constantly readjusting, possibly because there not really being led by spirit but by a desperate “Man Of Lawlessness”

[Eyes & Ears]

Re: How would you deceive “even the elect” if you were Satan?

Wow: The June 15, 2010 Watchtower first article concerning the annual meeting in October of 2009 highlighted several talks given by governing body members.
The one of interest is by John Bar: I do believe they have adjusted again the meaning of the generation. The contemporaries are the younger anointed that didn’t see the beginning of the signs in 1914 as the older anointed did. It is this generation of older and younger anointed together that make up the generation.
I could swear they interpreted back in 2007 that the generation was the original anointed in Jesus day until the last anointed would be on the earth now or in the immediate future?????????

There really hung up on this issue obviously!!!
They “bethel” seem to understand there are older and newer anointed at this time, which indicates some may be coming around; maybe!!!

http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNZNT (http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQZRQVNZNT)


Hi TS,

Yes, a friend of mine sent me an e-mail regarding this "generation" adjustment back in September/October I believe. Apparently it was a big to do on other discussion boards. She sent me some comments from several of those other forum board members. Quite interesting.

I would imagine they had to try to adjust something with the generation from 1914 almost all gone now.

Oh well :):D we will see how long this generation adjustment will last. Seems to me they are really pushing themselves up against a wall here. But who am I.:rolleyes:

E & E

[Jinnvisible]

Apostate Paul is the antichrist we were warned about.


Thats a weird one.

Didn`t Paul himself warn of the anti-Christ ? Hence the wierdness in the theory being....... that Paul is warning everybody about himself ?

John wrote about the antichrist I think more than any other bible writter, yet the factoid interuptus is that he wrote his writings after Paul had already demised.

Hence in the presented scenario John went on warning about the anti-christ after he had died.

I give you 24 hours to explain that. Alternatively take as long as you want, it might take some time.

Also you should ban yourself time to time, that way others can only join in with you.

Im going to give myself a good talking to.

[Jahsdisciple]

I do not think Jesus will reveal himself at the very beginning of the revelation. There is a dramatic buildup to the revealation of Christ. Nor will he reveal himself to all of the elect at once. It must follow the pattern of his post resurrection appearances. If you recall Jesus appeared to the disciples individually at first. Then towards the end of his forty days on earth he appeared to over 500.

So, the first part of the conclusion will be a time of great confusion, just as it was for the disciples when Christ was arrested and executed.

I suspect, though, that Jesus will reveal himself first to the newly anointed and last to the old timers, so that the first will be last and the last first.

Interesting take on the first will be last etc

[Gilligan]

Truthseeker, I clicked on the download link. I thought the revamped AWAKE! was going to be more oriented towards Bible topics.

Stress-A Serious Health Threat?
The Northern Bald Ibis?
Osteoporosis-A Silent Disease?
Protecting Your Family from the Flu?
As Iron Ribbon from Sea to Sea?

Apparently the guys in the editors' department didn't get the memo.

watchman


The Northern Bald Ibis, Hermit Ibis, or Waldrapp (Geronticus eremita) is a migratory bird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird) found in barren, semi-desert or rocky habitats, often close to running water. This 70–80 cm (28–31 in) glossy black ibis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibis), which, unlike other members of the ibis family, is non-wading, has an unfeathered red face and head, and a long, curved red bill. It breeds colonially on coastal or mountain cliff ledges, where it typically lays 2–3 eggs in a stick nest, and feeds on lizards, insects, and other small animals.
The Northern Bald Ibis was once widespread across the Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East), northern Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa) and southern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe), with a fossil record dating back at least 1.8 million years. It disappeared from Europe over 300 years ago, and is now considered critically endangered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critically_endangered_species). There are believed to be about 500 wild birds remaining in southern Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco), and fewer than 10 in Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), where it was rediscovered in 2002. To combat these ebbing numbers, recent reintroduction programs have been instituted internationally, with a semi-wild breeding colony in Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey), as well as sites in Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria), Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) and northern Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco).
The reasons for the species' long-term decline are unclear, but hunting, loss of foraging habitat, and pesticide poisoning have been implicated in the rapid loss of colonies in recent decades.137

I believe the WT should pull all their financial resources together to help this poor hideous,,,birdy.

[steff]

Okay, here we go. I will give Mister Galleria and Molly an opportunity to clarify their positions regarding the apostle Paul, or otherwise I will personally delete your accounts on this forum. You have 24 hours.

watchman

right about time R.
steff

[Gilligan]

right about time R.
steff


Be nice Steff, what can we do?,,,,

Bro Love, Gills

[one white robe]

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

The spirit of God moves through the sons and daughters of the kingdom and reveals to those whose hearts are right the truth versus the deception. Noone can see the deception except it be by Holy Spirit! The sheep will hear the true shepards voice!

What is going on now at this point of the dispensation of Holy Spirit is the "CALLING OUT" and the formation of the those who will go forward and deliver COMPLETE TRUTH (Not WTBS theology) during the coming 1260 days of true teaching.

So what about the many who are now sitting in the halls unaware of the deception? They will get a chance to respond during the 1260 day preaching work. They will get a chance to hear all that we are discussing here without the filter of the WTBS. The sheep will hear the shepards voice!

Has the great crowd yet been gathered? Well, they are the ones who come out of the great tribulation and wash their robes in the blood of the lamb. If the Great Tribulation has not yet occured has the Great Crowd yet been gathered or are they the ones who respond to the 1260 day preaching work??

Many who now sit in the Kingdom Halls will stream to the work of Gods witnesses and form a great crowd during the 1260 day work. They will get a chance to see the deception then under the powerfull words and works of his two witnesses.

Jehovah will allow all to see and hear truth in order to make their decision....Very very Soon. There is no injustice with Jehovah. The deception will not overpower the minds of those he calls out to form his two witnesses.

Peace

OWR

[shikinah]

The spirit of God moves through the sons and daughters of the kingdom and reveals to those whose hearts are right the truth versus the deception. Noone can see the deception except it be by Holy Spirit! The sheep will hear the true shepards voice!

What is going on now at this point of the dispensation of Holy Spirit is the "CALLING OUT" and the formation of the those who will go forward and deliver COMPLETE TRUTH (Not WTBS theology) during the coming 1260 days of true teaching.

So what about the many who are now sitting in the halls unaware of the deception? They will get a chance to respond during the 1260 day preaching work. They will get a chance to hear all that we are discussing here without the filter of the WTBS. The sheep will hear the shepards voice!

Has the great crowd yet been gathered? Well, they are the ones who come out of the great tribulation and wash their robes in the blood of the lamb. If the Great Tribulation has not yet occured has the Great Crowd yet been gathered or are they the ones who respond to the 1260 day preaching work??

Many who now sit in the Kingdom Halls will stream to the work of Gods witnesses and form a great crowd during the 1260 day work. They will get a chance to see the deception then under the powerfull words and works of his two witnesses.

Jehovah will allow all to see and hear truth in order to make their decision....Very very Soon. There is no injustice with Jehovah. The deception will not overpower the minds of those he calls out to form his two witnesses.

Peace

OWR

OWR,
Thank you for your explanation dont mean to gate crash , but im having an on-line discussion with a customer who I have been in contact with for two years, I've only recently found out that she is a Jehovahs Witness, when she asked if I had blood in certain products. I explained I use to go to meetings and she asked what was my main reason for not going back. And I was in a dilema as to be honest, and I thought the truth may hurt but perhaps this was my opportunity to tell her the real truth. I explained about the UN affair and told despite this I still believed they are gods people, but the organisation will be judged. I added some information, and she replied it was lies and apostate material, and it wasnt an official UN website. So she emailed me the official UN, thinking that there would be nothing on their about the watchtower www.UN.org (http://www.un.org/)
But instead I found the write up about the Watchtower, not only that but the covering letter explaining that the watchtower agreed to adhere to the criteria in the charter. http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf
Here is the charter http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/index.shtml

When I read this it put a more serious light on the matter as they were agreeing to not being neutral and standing by the UN, no mater what there decision was on religion, gender etc.
I pointed this out to her, and explained the seriousness, and quoted some supporting scriptures. I havnt heard from her yet.
But I dont know if I was right in telling her, but then again she said us meeting up the way we did was strange, I guess I felt it was my opportunity to make her aware of what was happening. You were saying the spirit of God moves us, and thats what I felt was happening, but at the same time I dont want to stumble anyone.

Shikinah

[steff]

Be nice Steff, what can we do?,,,,

Bro Love, Gills

Look, for some time now I wasn't reading mr G. posts as for me they come from demons.
What can I say, I'm glad that Robert removed him from this board.

sorry if it sounds not nice.

steff

[steff]

OWR,
Thank you for your explanation dont mean to gate crash , but im having an on-line discussion with a customer who I have been in contact with for two years, I've only recently found out that she is a Jehovahs Witness, when she asked if I had blood in certain products. I explained I use to go to meetings and she asked what was my main reason for not going back. And I was in a dilema as to be honest, and I thought the truth may hurt but perhaps this was my opportunity to tell her the real truth. I explained about the UN affair and told despite this I still believed they are gods people, but the organisation will be judged. I added some information, and she replied it was lies and apostate material, and it wasnt an official UN website. So she emailed me the official UN, thinking that there would be nothing on their about the watchtower www.UN.org (http://www.un.org/)
But instead I found the write up about the Watchtower, not only that but the covering letter explaining that the watchtower agreed to adhere to the criteria in the charter. http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf
Here is the charter http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/index.shtml

When I read this it put a more serious light on the matter as they were agreeing to not being neutral and standing by the UN, no mater what there decision was on religion, gender etc.
I pointed this out to her, and explained the seriousness, and quoted some supporting scriptures. I havnt heard from her yet.
But I dont know if I was right in telling her, but then again she said us meeting up the way we did was strange, I guess I felt it was my opportunity to make her aware of what was happening. You were saying the spirit of God moves us, and thats what I felt was happening, but at the same time I dont want to stumble anyone.

Shikinah

Hello Shikinah,

If you felt that this was right, it probably was. :)
You don't know what is going to happen.
I mean you can guess if you loose a customer or not (blood??? are you a witch :)))))??)
I guess she may reject your reasonings as apostate but when WTBS falls she'll recall that and may make a right choice on a basis what she heard from you.
There is a chance it's going to blossom.

steff

[elihu]

The spirit of God moves through the sons and daughters of the kingdom and reveals to those whose hearts are right the truth versus the deception. Noone can see the deception except it be by Holy Spirit! The sheep will hear the true shepards voice!

What is going on now at this point of the dispensation of Holy Spirit is the "CALLING OUT" and the formation of the those who will go forward and deliver COMPLETE TRUTH (Not WTBS theology) during the coming 1260 days of true teaching.

So what about the many who are now sitting in the halls unaware of the deception? They will get a chance to respond during the 1260 day preaching work. They will get a chance to hear all that we are discussing here without the filter of the WTBS. The sheep will hear the shepards voice!

Has the great crowd yet been gathered? Well, they are the ones who come out of the great tribulation and wash their robes in the blood of the lamb. If the Great Tribulation has not yet occured has the Great Crowd yet been gathered or are they the ones who respond to the 1260 day preaching work??

Many who now sit in the Kingdom Halls will stream to the work of Gods witnesses and form a great crowd during the 1260 day work. They will get a chance to see the deception then under the powerfull words and works of his two witnesses.

Jehovah will allow all to see and hear truth in order to make their decision....Very very Soon. There is no injustice with Jehovah. The deception will not overpower the minds of those he calls out to form his two witnesses.

Peace

OWR

that is just about the way i read it OWR,

however i am not so sure that the 2-witnesses are solely called from within the WTO, and that is where the problem could arise for WT persons and for us also.

the seven letters to the seven churches seem to me to be aimed at a much broader spectrum than the WTO could possibly contain.

and notably, relating to the visible presence of Christ, it was not Christs leading disciples whom he showed Himself to at first but to the women, to those who were lowly ones , who had the task of attending to the tomb.

so will any of us be humble enough to accept that Christ chooses the lowly ones who seem of little significance to show himself to first?

i really doubt that the leaders of the WTO will accept such events as having taken place, and then it leads to who will their sheep believe.
a bunch of nobodies, possibly labeled by the wto as apostates, or their F&D self appointed slave?

elihu

[shikinah]

Look, for some time now I wasn't reading mr G. posts as for me they come from demons.
What can I say, I'm glad that Robert removed him from this board.

sorry if it sounds not nice.

steff

Steff what you are saying has a lot of weight, despite Mr G's posts, I still love the brother but I believe there is some demonic influence from time to time. He may not be aware, most who are under such influence believe they are doing good. They would put their life on the line for what they believe, then you have the others who deliberately set out to destroy the works of Jehovah.
Satan always wants to break up good works and this board in particular would be no exception.
We should pray for Mr G, that he comes to an accurate understanding and if he is under influence that he be made freed.

Sisterly Love
Elizabeth

[shikinah]

Hello Shikinah,

If you felt that this was right, it probably was. :)
You don't know what is going to happen.
I mean you can guess if you loose a customer or not (blood??? are you a witch :)))))??)
I guess she may reject your reasonings as apostate but when WTBS falls she'll recall that and may make a right choice on a basis what she heard from you.
There is a chance it's going to blossom.

steff

Well I was quite surprised to be asked if there was any blood products in my medicines, but complex homeopathic products can have minute doses of bone marrow, liver, spleen etc but the dilutions a lot of the time just contain the energy of the ingredient. No im not a witch but in the Medieval times i'd probably would have been burnt or drowned for mixing potions:p
Well I pray what you said does happen, what is frightening is the mindset of some witnesses is that which catholics have toward the pope, that the watchtower is infallible.

Thank you
Shikinah

[panda]

Apostate Paul is the antichrist we were warned about.
You did not respond to scripture, because you cannot.

Jesus said "...the truth will set you free." John 8:32
Paul said "...I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus..."

Jesus said "...when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you,
just as the hypocrites do..." Matt. 6:2
Paul said "and with a loud voice: "Stand up erect on your feet..."" Acts 14:10

Jesus said to the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit," Matt. 28:19
Paul said "For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing,
but to go declaring the good news..." 1 Cor. 1:17

Jesus said "...when you pray, go into your private room and,
after shutting the door, pray to your Father..." Matt. 6:6
Paul said "...I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands..." 1 Tim. 2:8

"Then Pilate said to him: "Do you not hear how many things they are testifying against you?"
Yet he did not answer him, no, not a word, so that the governor wondered very much." Matt. 27:13,14.
Paul said "...Jesus, who as a witness, made the fine public declaration
before Pontius Pilate..." 1 Tim. 6:13

Jesus said "But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him;
for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47
Paul said "You hand such a man over to Satan..." 1 Cor. 5:5

Jesus said "Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them...He is like a man
...who...laid a foundation upon the rock-mass..." Luke 6:47,48.
Paul said "...as a wise director of works I laid a foundation..." 1 Cor. 3:10.

Jesus said "Letting go the commandment of God, you hold fast the tradition of men." Mark 7:8
Paul said "Now we are giving you orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition
you received from us." (me) 2 Thes. 3:6

Jesus said "Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find;
keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you." Matt. 7:7
Paul said "...God selected you from the beginning...To this very destiny he called you..." 2 Thes. 2:13,14

Jesus said "But when you spread a feast, invite poor people, crippled, lame, blind;" Luke 14:13
Paul said "...a widow...not less than sixty years old, a wife of one husband,
having a witness born to her for fine works, if she reared children, if she entertained strangers,
if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she relieved those in tribulation,
if she diligently followed every good work." 1 Tim. 5:9,10

Jesus said "If, though, you want to enter into life,
observe the commandments continually." Matt. 19:17-19
Paul said "...it is Gods gift...No, it is not owing to works..." Eph. 2:8-9

Jesus "...formed a group of twelve, whom he also named "apostles"..." Mark 3:14
Paul said "...consider the apostle...-Jesus." Heb. 3:1

Apostle John said "...And he (Jesus) sent forth his angel..." Rev. 1:1
Paul said "but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels,
crowned with glory..." Heb. 2:9

Opening text for Greek Scriptures-
"The book of the history of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham:" Matt. 1:1
"The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ:" Mark 1:1
"Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts
that are given full credence among us," Luke 1:1
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." John 1:1
"The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the things
Jesus started both to do and to teach," Acts 1:1.
"Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ and called to be an apostle, separated to God's good news," Romans 1:1
"Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through God's will, and Sosthenes our brother" 1 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, and Timothy our brother to the ..." 2 Cor. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ..." Gal. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through Gods will, to the holy ones..." Eph. 1:1
"Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones..." Phil. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God's will..." Colossians 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 1 Thess. 1:1
"Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the congregation of the Thessalonians..." 2 Thess. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 1 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, an apostle..." 2 Tim. 1:1
"Paul, a slave of God..." Titus 1:1
"Paul, a prisoner..." Philemon 1
Jesus said "If I alone bear witness about myself, my witness is not true." John 5:31

1 Tim. 1:20 "Hymenaeus and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them
over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."
Does this not prove that Paul actually murdered these ones?
Maybe it was for his murders he was imprisoned?
Do you think Jesus would choose a murderous pharisee as an apostle?
Do you think Jesus would blind someone?

The writing's of first and second Peter are believed by some to be counterfeit.
Likely written under Paul's direction, when considering terminology, contents, and structure.

Jesus prophesy of false apostate scripture-
"While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat...
Let them grow together...and in the harvest...collect the weeds...to burn them..."
Matt. 13:24-30. This is explained at 36-43. The "weeds" are the sons of Satan,
and their teaching is among the "wheat"- sons of the kingdom.

Jude said ""In the last time there will be ridiculers,..."

Robert King- Now you will be judged as you have judged-
for you have 24 hours to respond to this reasoning from God, the Son Jesus,
and the true apostles of Jesus. The damage you will receive in your failure to do so
will be that you will remain in apostacy rather than coming to Jesus.
Billyou need to go back to the basics.

[one white robe]

that is just about the way i read it OWR,

however i am not so sure that the 2-witnesses are solely called from within the WTO, and that is where the problem could arise for WT persons and for us also.

the seven letters to the seven churches seem to me to be aimed at a much broader spectrum than the WTO could possibly contain.

and notably, relating to the visible presence of Christ, it was not Christs leading disciples whom he showed Himself to at first but to the women, to those who were lowly ones , who had the task of attending to the tomb.

so will any of us be humble enough to accept that Christ chooses the lowly ones who seem of little significance to show himself to first?

i really doubt that the leaders of the WTO will accept such events as having taken place, and then it leads to who will their sheep believe.
a bunch of nobodies, possibly labeled by the wto as apostates, or their F&D self appointed slave?

elihu

Elihu,

Sorry if I left the impression that the two witnesses only come from within Gods organization. That is not my conviction. Many may be from outside. I will leave it up to Holy Siirit to pick and chose. It will do a better job than I can ever do. :)

I agree that those picked will be hated by the entire world.

As a side note I appreciated your poetry that you posted on teh Resignation topic. Keep it up.

Peace in Jehovah and Yeshua

OWR

[one white robe]

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT.

I dont understand how can father allow something so powerful that would even decieve the holy ones if, as Robert says..Jesus christ didnt reveal himself to them personally. This sounds as though they get a free pass to me.

ALSO I DONT UNDERSTAND..

If the deception is going to be that powerful what hope is there for the little sheep? I mean those who are are weak already and barely able to hold on? will these ones be judged as wicked because the fell victem to a powerful work of satan....decieving them into believing that christ has arrived by means of a awesome display of power? People who are so desperate for christ kingdom, People who have been praying for it all their lives and now look! Its appears to be finnaly here, I mean...it must be...no one has power like that but God. It just seems so unfair. A people who cant even tell the difference between their left and their right and yet we're going to be doom if we cant tell the difference between a Powerful lie of satan and a Powerful work of God. I DONT UNDERSTAND. All I gotta say is....it must be real nice to be Annointed.

Just one other point which Watchman has eluded to. You were concerned about "the little sheep who are weak etc.." One is week because they are looking to the wrong source for strength. If you look to Holy Spirit for power you will overcome all weekness inherent in flesh. If you look to an organization your strength you will never be sustained for long periods of time.

It like the difference between drinking coca-cola versus a good healthy beverage. One gives you a sugar rush - in this case based on emotion and a sense of belonging ..then you crash. However Holy Spirit provides sustained energy.

Peace

OWR

[one white robe]

Its not possible ! This is like the expression used by Luke in the account about Jesus being tempted and how satan tempted him:"so the devil,having concluded all the tempatations,retired from him until another convenient time".

In all serious ways,Jesus had been "tempted". This didnt mean that satan had given up putting Jesus under incredible pressure..he had 3.5 years to ''endure"...this is differant from "specially designed temptations" that satan had planned as opposed to being 'tempted' to give in under pressure.

Those who have been SEALED as Jesus brothers have beed tested through a life-time of faith. The account in Revelation says,satan has been accusing these brothers day and night. So,long before they are sealed,what happened with Job and what satan said about him,has also been said about Jesus brothers.The 'Job-like" trials all happen before they are sealed as Jesus brothers.

Could there possibly be anything thrown at them they havnt already faced ? No !

When this expression is used during the Lords Day,satan goes of to wage war with the brothers of Jesus.So things will be bad for them in some way.They now have to endure the ravages of war for 3.5 years.

"to decieve,if possible, even the elect." is refering to the signs that satan will make happen to distract people like he did in Egypt. They will be so amasing that it MIGHT seem possible to decieve even the chosen ones. BUT...considering they have already seen Jesus in some way,how could the chosen ones be decieved in any way? They have seen Jesus ! Nothing satan could do would even come close to that !

Who would fall for the lame attempts of satan to draw attention away from the real signs like the 10 plaques in Egypt that satan couldnt copy and stop the real issue from being seen.

The expression is an oxymoron...you would have to be one to be decieved by them. Being decieved about the real last days is another matter.

I guess you are not here anylonger to get my reply but I think that you have missed the big picture. The elect will not be deceived...By definition the elect are those who see the deception...they are the ones who are sealed because they were worthy to see the deception...a sealing which I believe is now occuring prior to the 1260 days of coming teaching.

OWR

[one white robe]

Hi SWORDOFJAH, once again I'm not trying to be contentious with you but I'm trying to reason with you, ok.

Now what I do want to ask you is this.

Are you yourself above being deceived?

Do you think the we on this forum are trying to deceive you?

Was Ray Franz deceived over 1914?

Who was the evil slave at that time that beat up on the other slaves in Christ's household?

Were there not quite a few that were expelled from the synagogues at that time?

So who is really deceiving who?



Futureman,

Regarding your discussions with swordofjah .....All I can say is that no one sees the deception except it be by Holy Spirit. You have about the same chance of getting the pope to renounce the teachings of the church (though all things are possible with God if he wills) than to let someone see the deception by reasoning with them.

The deception is revealed to those who are being called out and sealed to do Gods final preaching work. No one chosse to be sealed. Holy Spirit makes the choice.

Peace

OWR

[Utuna]

Look, for some time now I wasn't reading mr G. posts as for me they come from demons.
What can I say, I'm glad that Robert removed him from this board.

sorry if it sounds not nice.

steff

Dear steff,

I haven't read mr G's posts for months. I don't have time to waste with morgellons, X-files-like stories and so on. I'm sad that such extreme measures were needed to be taken but I respect Robert's decision in that regard. Enough is enough !

...but I don't think that mr G's intuitive will be on the dole for long... For sure, it must be hyperactive ! lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Le sectarisme des jugements pauvres lui tenait quelquefois lieu de volonté" - Hervé Bazin
"J'ai pétri de la boue et j'en ai fait de l'or" - Charles Baudelaire
"S'il m'a été donné de voir un peu plus loin que les autres, c'est que je me tenais sur les épaules de géants" - Isaac Newton

[Jahsdisciple]

I guess you are not here anylonger to get my reply but I think that you have missed the big picture. The elect will not be deceived...By definition the elect are those who see the deception...they are the ones who are sealed because they were worthy to see the deception...a sealing which I believe is now occuring prior to the 1260 days of coming teaching.

OWR
What 'big picture' am i missing..please enlighten me..someone already has misunderstood the title of this thread thinking that 'even the elect' might be decieved and i am making the point they wont be. SO what am i missing ?? :)

[one white robe]

What 'big picture' am i missing..please enlighten me..someone already has misunderstood the title of this thread thinking that 'even the elect' might be decieved and i am making the point they wont be. SO what am i missing ?? :)

Jinn,

Your 2 recent responses are filled with a spirit of anger. I am not going to engage that spirit. I can see that your mind is locked into a trained way of thinking.

There is a difference between the sinful nature of man and the teaching of the 1914 lie. If you feel its ok to teach a lie the go ahead.

OWR

[shikinah]

OWR,
Thank you for your explanation dont mean to gate crash , but im having an on-line discussion with a customer who I have been in contact with for two years, I've only recently found out that she is a Jehovahs Witness, when she asked if I had blood in certain products. I explained I use to go to meetings and she asked what was my main reason for not going back. And I was in a dilema as to be honest, and I thought the truth may hurt but perhaps this was my opportunity to tell her the real truth. I explained about the UN affair and told despite this I still believed they are gods people, but the organisation will be judged. I added some information, and she replied it was lies and apostate material, and it wasnt an official UN website. So she emailed me the official UN, thinking that there would be nothing on their about the watchtower www.UN.org (http://www.un.org/)
But instead I found the write up about the Watchtower, not only that but the covering letter explaining that the watchtower agreed to adhere to the criteria in the charter. http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf
Here is the charter http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/index.shtml

When I read this it put a more serious light on the matter as they were agreeing to not being neutral and standing by the UN, no mater what there decision was on religion, gender etc.
I pointed this out to her, and explained the seriousness, and quoted some supporting scriptures. I havnt heard from her yet.
But I dont know if I was right in telling her, but then again she said us meeting up the way we did was strange, I guess I felt it was my opportunity to make her aware of what was happening. You were saying the spirit of God moves us, and thats what I felt was happening, but at the same time I dont want to stumble anyone.

Shikinah

I thought i'd let you know the out come of this strange event, I hadnt heard from this sister in over a week, and today I was arguing with my son about the cost of living and how I was finding it extremely hard to cope.
Then I noticed this sister had replied to me, she never mentioned a word about the UN saga, she just said "you should be expecting some new orders from customers i'll be refering to you, its more cost effective if you take them on, I will also be ordering direct from you myself take care"
I told her how thankful I was and how Jehovah had answered my prayers, and left it at that.

Psalms 18:2 Jehovah is my crag and my stronghold and the provider of escape for me. My God is my rock. I shall take refuge in him.


Shikinah

[Tsaphah]

Hey Sister,
I couldn't pass this one up. These words came to mind. :rolleyes:

Someone's Knockin' At The Door.
Somebody's Ringin' The Bell.
Someone's Knockin' At The Door.
Somebody's Ringin' The Bell.
Do Me A Favor,
Open The Door And Let 'Em In.

Lyrics by Paul McCartney (Wings At the Speed Of Sound-1976)

Maybe you should check to see who it is, before you “Let 'Em In. :eek:

[arimatthewdavies]

i have a thought maybe worth considering, maybe not but do you all realize that us people will quite likley be all the light their is for many when and if a situation arises that makes open praching impossible?

[Jinnvisible]

Jinn,

Your 2 recent responses are filled with a spirit of anger. I am not going to engage that spirit. I can see that your mind is locked into a trained way of thinking.

There is a difference between the sinful nature of man and the teaching of the 1914 lie. If you feel its ok to teach a lie the go ahead.

OWR

Yeah Jinn.

[shikinah]

i have a thought maybe worth considering, maybe not but do you all realize that us people will quite likley be all the light their is for many when and if a situation arises that makes open praching impossible?

Hmmm my calculations arnt too good Ari, but each of us would have several million to preach to, so i'd better get started....
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/mutley-ani1.gif

[truthseeker]

Yeah Jinn.


LOL I caught that also Just didnt jump on it: lol:rolleyes: