What do you think?

[noname]

In a recent talk we were quoted this WT July 1st 1970 Pg. 407.
We were told that not preaching is the same as murder, homosexuality and adultery.
The WT says this:
"refusal to preach the good news of the Kingdom can keep one out of God’s kingdom, just as can adultery, homosexuality and murder"

Im not advocating not preaching by any means. But do you think it is the same as these things?
I cannot find this in the bible.

[James]

In a recent talk we were quoted this WT July 1st 1970 Pg. 407.
We were told that not preaching is the same as murder, homosexuality and adultery.
The WT says this:
"refusal to preach the good news of the Kingdom can keep one out of God’s kingdom, just as can adultery, homosexuality and murder"

Im not advocating not preaching by any means. But do you think it is the same as these things?
I cannot find this in the bible.


I agree 100%.

Although, the way the WT equates it with those sins is -imo- pretty devious. They are trying to put the FEAR of GOD into you in the same manner as hell-fire preachers do. That is the wrong psychology to use to have you serve Jehovah. God wants you to do his will because you love him.

The key word is 'refusal', that implies that you have come to an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus and then refuse to evangelize it. Biblical references would be hiding your lamp under a basket, burying your talent, etc. If you know this is the only 'Way' to salvation yet, 'refuse' to pass on this gift of life, then yes, you are blood-guilty and will not find favor at the judgment.

agape,
James

[uglyandthin]

I agree 100%.

Although, the way the WT equates it with those sins is -imo- pretty devious. They are trying to put the FEAR of GOD into you in the same manner as hell-fire preachers do. That is the wrong psychology to use to have you serve Jehovah. God wants you to do his will because you love him.

The key word is 'refusal', that implies that you have come to an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and Jesus and then refuse to evangelize it. Biblical references would be hiding your lamp under a basket, burying your talent, etc. If you know this is the only 'Way' to salvation yet, 'refuse' to pass on this gift of life, then yes, you are blood-guilty and will not find favor at the judgment.

agape,
James

Hi James:

Yes, me too, a 100% and I will go you one better. Jesus said that a man who even looks at a women so as to have a passion for her, has already committed adultery in his heart, so even if people just thought that they would not preach, they should be dead forever as well. Those darn thought criminals!

To have such a blanket statement like the Watchtower has made here, and comparing not preaching to adultery, homosexuality and murder is beyond belief. But, be careful, you may get what you ask for. What do I mean?

I mean a group of persons who have been promised in marriage (not the whole of the remnant, just the active participants in this folly) to the Lamb of God who shamelessly threw themselves at the U.N. and defiled themselves with the organization that will be at the forefront in it's attempt to wipe from the earth the rest of God's servants, and who, when this was brought to her attention murdered (I mean unjustly disfellowshipped the accusers), which is the same as murder in a spiritual sense. Can't as of yet figure in the homosexuality angle, any ideas out there?

Yes, you have preached the Word of God, but unfortunately you have also committed adultery and murder, oops! Again, watch what you ask for, it may come back to bite you in the ass. I direct this at those responsible (who apparently will never own up to it) for that disgraceful folly with the U.N. and all those responsible for summary executions of anyone who questioned your loyalty in this situation to your very face. This is not directed to JW' in general, as most are still in ignorance of this dastardly deed. But the writing is on the wall, and as Watchman said in another recent post, your days are numbered. The irionic thing is you will most probably be judged by your own words. Yes, how ironic!

uglyandthin

[The Way]

In a recent talk we were quoted this WT July 1st 1970 Pg. 407.
We were told that not preaching is the same as murder, homosexuality and adultery.
The WT says this:
"refusal to preach the good news of the Kingdom can keep one out of God’s kingdom, just as can adultery, homosexuality and murder"

Im not advocating not preaching by any means. But do you think it is the same as these things?
I cannot find this in the bible.

A fine principle applicable to all Christian believers the bible DOES give us:

(1Pe 3:15-16, NASB)
But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

The context makes clear this applies to all in the congregation, men and women, and regardless of their status in the congregation:
(1Pe 3:8-13, NASB)
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For,
"THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS,
MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.
HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD;
HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT.
FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS,
AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER,
BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL."
Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?

Interestingly, this passage puts maintaining a good behaviour in imitation of and honouring Christ, and keeping a good conscience -- witnessing by conduct so to speak before witnessing by word. Regarding wives married to an unbeliever, the same passage even says:
(1Pe 3:1-2, NASB)
In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

I think this gives a good SCRIPTURAL bottom-line or directive for all. This is by no means to discourage more "active" forms of preaching or searching appropriate occasions to witness also. 'Who is holding you back to prove zealous for what is good?' Note the bible is making a positive appeal here, exactly the opposite motivation as laying a guilt trip on someone into doing something!

-----
Blessed is the One coming as King in Jehovah's name! -- Lu 19:38; Ps. 118:26

[watchman]

Jesus said that it is not the one saying to him "Lord, Lord" who will enter the kingdom, but it is the one doing the will of his Father who will. That being the case, you have to ask yourself the question: Is it God's will for all Christians to preach and share their faith with others in some way?

watchman

[uglyandthin]

Jesus said that it is not the one saying to him "Lord, Lord" who will enter the kingdom, but it is the one doing the will of his Father who will. That being the case, you have to ask yourself the question: Is it God's will for all Christians to preach and share their faith with others in some way?

watchman

Hi Watchman:

Most if not all people do not have to be threatened with everlasting non existance to share their faith with others in some way, whether it is in the field ministry or private witnessing. I am not saying that you said that, I am just building on your point and addressing the theme of this thread at the same time.

When I was a JW, you had to go before the elders and assure them that you were living your life as a Christian and that you were keeping a high moral level before you would be approved to go "in the ministry". Perhaps the society should apply this same principle to themselves. They have to my knowledge never publicly or privately apologized for the grevious sin they have committed against God and Christ (and are perhaps continuing to commit even now) by having an adulterous relationship with the U.N. and by thier equally unrighteousness in handling past and present child molestation cases. You cannot wash these sins away with more field service or more ministry. You have to repent towards God and all onlookers, then perhaps you qualify to represent the true God. In the same respect what does this condition do to the value of thier baptism? It is a baptism of repentance for crying out loud. How can an organization of people provide a baptism of repentance when they as an organization are not the slightest bit repentant? Sounds like a clear contradiction to me.

I regular pioneered and auxilliary pioneered all throughout the '90's never knowing that I was dissemminating materials for the head of the Wild Beasts on earth. When I found out the extent to which the WTBTS was involved in this, and my own culpability, I was mortified. I am a grown man who is not prone to tears, but I cried on more than one occassion. I cried for myself and how I had hurt God's feelings (even unknowingly) and I cried for all the brothers and sisters whose faith and standing before God was also compromised. In my letter of dissociation I emplored the local congregation to understand the error and repent and for the society to do the same. I have never had a response, either privately or publicly nor do I expect one any time soon. But I am disdained by all of my former brothers and sisters in the local congregations, to the point that most look the other way when we cross each others paths. It hurts me that this happens, but I am content that I have done what is right and that I have spoken out and continue to speak out for God and for Christ. I know it doesn't qualify as field service time, but when you are operating under a broken baptism, no field service does.

Also, when I was finally able to think clearly and soundly I realized my own shortcomings with regard to how I represented the children in the congregations that I represented when I too took measures to cover up the errors of child molestors in the congregation. Not that we looked the other way mind you, we did not do that, we investigated and investigated till we got to what we saw as the truth, and guilty ones were df'd. But I regret not having the spine and gonads to oppose this policy more at the time and report these vile men to the authorities. They need to be convicted in court and punished by Caesar, then and only then should they be dealt with on a congregation level. And no victim or family member of a victim should be threatened with judicial action for defending thier offspring to the best of thier ability. I have fully repented of these sins as well, and I am confident that I have been forgiven.

I say again to all who will listen, repent of these errors and more and God will forgive in a large way. If you do not, he will not be pleased.

uglyandthin

[noname]

Thank you all for your comments. I try my best to get a realistic rounded view of scriptural issues that come up in the congregation. Like you said James the psychology does seem wrong.
And I see what you mean Watchman thank you for your comment.
The Way, that is a nice balanced view of our individual ministry.
Uglyandthin, those are good thoughts I will take into consideration, like James was saying the hellfire psychology does not seem in harmony with the bible.

I could see someone Haughtily Refusing to preach, a sin. But the black and white statement of Murder=NotPreaching, does not seem like a balanced view but a emotional scare tactic, not that the brother giving the talk didn't have good intentions.

[Eyes & Ears]

In a recent talk we were quoted this WT July 1st 1970 Pg. 407.
We were told that not preaching is the same as murder, homosexuality and adultery.
The WT says this:
"refusal to preach the good news of the Kingdom can keep one out of God’s kingdom, just as can adultery, homosexuality and murder"

Im not advocating not preaching by any means. But do you think it is the same as these things?
I cannot find this in the bible.


This thread was very interesting. I found this thread as I was browsing through checking out some things I missed from my little time away.

Years ago, I would hear things like no name put up and thought, wow that does not sound right. After listening to information over and over and over, it had a not so good affect on me. However I did not realize this until much later and after learning some very hard lessons regrding personal study and taking control of my spirituality as well as drawing close to Jehovah and his son.

Reminders are good, and we all need to be reminded of the love Jehovah and his son have shown us. But when resorting to tactics out of context, to get a desired result...................... well, that is a whole different matter all together.

As we all are growing in our relationship with Jehovah and his son I know many of us myself included are now in a much better place than we were before.

But even with that said these types of statements and the way scriptures are applied to make a point are very unnerving and disturbing. Much is certainly going on inside Jehovah's household.


Sometimes I guess when the shepherds locally or from headquarters feel hours are dropping or meeting attendance worldwide has fallen, they come up with stuff either in local needs or due to a letter from headquarters probably telling them to get the sheep moving. Sometimes they even have a speaker come to address certain issues. Still none of that is inappropriate, it is just how the information is delivered that is the point. (my opinion in all of these expressions here)

If they don't the CO will be down there to straighten you out, or some other drastic measure in the form of rotating the Body of Elders around even in some instances to other congregations. There may be something in the KM or an adjustment, I know we all have experienced this many times.

I know the brothers on board here know more about this than I do:D. Especially those who have been elders, M.S., etc. I'm just going by what I have experienced and by my 2 cent opinion.

I have been in congregations were some CO's coming through have at times said publicly to the elders across the platform things I felt should have been said in a closed meeting. It was really very personal. But who am I? :) I know in Jehovah's due time he will address all these things he is allowing but not approving.

Jesus had a way of effectively teaching us and he left us that model to follow, especially in the life-saving work of making disciples. Unfortunately, humans often resort to other means when what they expect/want to happen does not. That to me (my opinion) is when one goes beyond what Jehovah and his son want or approve when dealing with spiritual matters. (or personalf matters - my opinion)

As has been expressed "psychology", or those saying "Lord, Lord didn't we"
(Hmmm well, did you?)

What do I think?

Now I do just that "I THINK" I use those mental faculties Jehovah gave me.
I make sure, I stay on the Watch. I will continue to pray to Jehovah to help me cope with the things that are now taking place inside his Household until he tells me to do something different. I also ask myself little questions now, something I did not really do serously in the past.


Is this what Jehovah said, does it line up with his Word/requirements?

Is this really necessary?

Is this the model Jesus left us?

Is this gonna make my load heavy? Jesus does not make my load heavy so that I lose my joy. So what is the real deal with this? (request/adjustment/change, etc.)

I think now more than ever (my opinion) if we are still attending meetings we all need to pay attention to what is coming across the platform as well as what is in the publications.

Jehovah is gonna hold us responsible for our indivdiual spirituality. He will deal with the Shephards for the way they carried out their responsibilities also.

So part of my focus now also is to concentrate more on what Jehovah has asked me to do and to follow his son as best I can with Jehovah's help. Jehovah will take care of all those shepherds over-stepping with their man-made traditions.

It's good that we are sharing and exchanging. It helps us to encourage one another and to keep HOLD N ON TIGHT to Jehovah and his son. Things are going to become more obvious as Jehovah allows certain situations to be exposed at his timing and we are seeing them raise their little ugly heads little by little by little.

Are we staying on the Watch hmmmm?

Just my personal opinions and thoughts.

HOLD ON TIGHT EVERYONE OKEY DOKEY.


E & E


1 Peter 4:17

For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the HOUSE OF GOD. Now if it starts FIRST WITH US, what will the end be of those who are not obedient ot the good new of God?

Matthew 15:3

.................."Why is it you also overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition?

Mr 7:13

And thus you make the Word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. AND MANY THINGS SIMILAR TO THIS YOU DO.


Col 2:8

Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosopy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.




Have a safe and happy week everyone.

[noname]

As we all are growing in our relationship with Jehovah and his son I know many of us myself included are now in a much better place than we were before.


Im right with you EandE. Thank you for your comment.

[arimatthewdavies]

As we all are growing in our relationship with Jehovah and his son I know many of us myself included are now in a much better place than we were before.


Im right with you EandE. Thank you for your comment.


in the book of corinthians speaking about what each person is gifted with, it says, not all people have the same spirtual job, and to say if you dont preach your bloodguilty is a demon inspired scare tactic that mis quotes ezikiel and james to force you to serve the watchtowers publication by literture agenda! serving jesus and jehovah can be done in many other ways than door knocking! jehovah made provisions for everybody to share the work and rewards of the kingdom! here are some examples you can visit,the sick,you can go to a jail,you can take clothes and food to needy,and if your a total coward at public door knocking, you can work overtime at your secular job and donate to help the pioneers who want to preach! the bible gives specific examples of the rules to follow in combat both spirtual and physical,example if your fearful go home before you make others fearful! the people that did leave the field went home, but did help by makeing spears arows weapons and food to those fighting and were not looked down upon!
severel ocasions are given were jesus healed a man and this man wanted to join up with jesus and preach, jesus however said no! and sent him home with go tell your familey!
now im not saying that tweadleing your thumbs and avoiding all of jehovahs oportunity for you to minister is aceptable! cause its not!
i am saying jehovah has plenty of other things for you to do if you dont want to door preach! and dont fall for false guilt,or false doctorine on this one! another proof of this is the story of the lazy slave that went off and burried the talant. jesus said wicked slave your out of excuses! you could have put my money in the bank to draw interest!
thus jesus proved that if your too lazy,or scared to preach, you can still please me by supporting financialy! yes their is a way just as pleaseing to jehovah to serve if your a big chicken! just ask him, let him know honestley your fear take the job he gives you and do it, most of all dont sit their feeling self pity cause you think door knocking is the onley way you can buy your way into jehovahs favor!feel free to write more on this because so many are deeply efected by this idea that if you dont become a preacher god dosent like you!

[FutureMan]

Hello Ari, and hello everyone I think these scriptures here says it all.

(1 Corinthians 12) [LITV]
4 And there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit;
5 and there are differences of ministries, yet the same Lord.
6 And there are differences of workings, but the same God is working all things in all.
7 And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.
8 For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 and to another, faith by the same Spirit, and to another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit,
10 and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.
11 But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as He wills.

(1 Corinthians 12) [LITV]
27 And you are Christ's body, and members in part.
28 And God placed some in the church: firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then works of power; then gifts of healing, helps, governings, kinds of languages.

(Ephesians 4) [LITV]
11 And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;
12 with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,
13 until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the trickery of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error,
15 but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the head, the Christ,
16 from whom all the body, having been fitted and compacted together through every assisting bond, according to the effectual working of one measure in each part, produces the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.