IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH - John 4:23, 24

[Eyes & Ears]

There have been many expressions as to what this scriptures means. I have

learned something from each one of those expressions from my time here on

board and as being one of Jehovah's Witnesses in general. (Meaning reading

publications and looking up STUFF on CD ROM, Talks, TMS explanations

and the works. HOWEVER NONE OF THAT GAVE ME WHAT I WAS LOOKING

FOR PERSONALLY. Did I ask Jehovah what this scripture meant, no not at first. So

Jehovah just let me wander around like a lost dumb bird banging it's head up

against my spiritual cage. That's what I call it when I feel caged in and don't

listen to my father, but listen to everyone else (DUH)!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Talk about

self-induced spiritual stress (LOL) I didn't know how to handle/deal with this scripture

nor the explanations of it that I had heard/read.



Recently I poured my lil soul out to Jehovah asking him to help me understand

personally what this scripture means. Not anything written by anyone else

but what this scripture should mean to me. When Jehovah answers you it could

be something very quiet, so quiet that you may miss it. (a board member I cannot

recall the name told me in answer to another issue to listen ....Jehovah will give

you an answer to what you ask, but you have to listen.

Well Jehovah certainly did answer. It has been awhile though. I must say that

we have a wonderful father. I say that because we have free will. Jehovah will

allow you to do whatever it is you think you need to do - he will not

grab you by the hand and say no, don't. But he will give you little nudges

(HOLY SPIRIT) HOWEVER, if you are not listening/paying attention well then whose

fault is that hmmmmmmmmmm? My personal answer certainly helped clear away

many of the spiritual cobwebs that were hanging tough on that dirty ole

cage with all that ole spiritual thinking clogging up that part of my bird brain.:rolleyes::D

In other words it was time to let go of some of the ole understandings

I had regarding this scripture and listen to my father. I certainly had things

reversed. (SHEESH)!!!


Jehovah taught me that if I want to learn and understand I have to follow

the direction of his Holy Spirit for me. He knows me, he understands me. He will

give an answer to & for me. But I have to shut up. He can't answer if I am

babbling on and don't stop to listen to him. For crying out loud his love

was almost knocking me over and I was still whining. :rolleyes: But once my Father

showed me, WOW!! BAM!!! Old thinking just started falling off, the brain opened

up and stuff is just flowing through. The scriptures will open up to you, you can

hear Jehovah talking (and you know what I mean y'all. No I am not

hearing voices - laughing - don't even go there.:)) Had to clarify that

for some of you funnies on board (LOL) You know who you are!!!


So if ya need help in clarifying something - you have to ask our Father. He will

let you know that worshipping him in Spirit and in Truth is just that. His

Holy Spirit will direct you to the truths you need to draw closer to him

and to help yourself and others.


Take care now OKEY DOKEY. HOLD ON TIGHT TO JEHOVAH AND

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, PRAY AND LISTEN AND DON'T GIVE UP

UNTIL JEHOVAH ANSWERS YOU. DO NOT WALK OUT THERE

ON YOUR OWN, AND DO NOT WALK OUT ON SOMEONE ELSE'

UNDERSTANDING. THAT IS A TOTAL NO NO. JEHOVAH WILL

HELP YOU TAKE BACK AND TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY

REGARDING YOUR SPIRITUALITY. HE WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT TO

EAT AND WHAT TO REJECT REGARDING INFO YOU RECEIVE IF YOU

STILL ATTEND MEETINGS OR WHEN LISTENING TO ANYONE ELSE.


READ HIS WORD EVERY DAY EVEN IF IT IS JUST ONE SCRIPTURE.

PRAY TO JEHOVAH EVEN IF IT IS JUST 2 MINUTES. DRAW CLOSE TO

JEHOVAH O.K


James 4:8

Draw close to Jehovah and he will draw close to you..................

1 Thess 5:17

Pray Incessantly

1 Thess 5:19

DO NOT put out the fire of the spirit.

With Love

E & E

[shikinah]

There have been many expressions as to what this scriptures means. I have

learned something from each one of those expressions from my time here on

board and as being one of Jehovah's Witnesses in general. (Meaning reading

publications and looking up STUFF on CD ROM, Talks, TMS explanations

and the works. HOWEVER NONE OF THAT GAVE ME WHAT I WAS LOOKING

FOR PERSONALLY. Did I ask Jehovah what this scripture meant, no not at first. So

Jehovah just let me wander around like a lost dumb bird banging it's head up

against my spiritual cage. That's what I call it when I feel caged in and don't

listen to my father, but listen to everyone else (DUH)!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Talk about

self-induced spiritual stress (LOL) I didn't know how to handle/deal with this scripture

nor the explanations of it that I had heard/read.



Recently I poured my lil soul out to Jehovah asking him to help me understand

personally what this scripture means. Not anything written by anyone else

but what this scripture should mean to me. When Jehovah answers you it could

be something very quiet, so quiet that you may miss it. (a board member I cannot

recall the name told me in answer to another issue to listen ....Jehovah will give

you an answer to what you ask, but you have to listen.

Well Jehovah certainly did answer. It has been awhile though. I must say that

we have a wonderful father. I say that because we have free will. Jehovah will

allow you to do whatever it is you think you need to do - he will not

grab you by the hand and say no, don't. But he will give you little nudges

(HOLY SPIRIT) HOWEVER, if you are not listening/paying attention well then whose

fault is that hmmmmmmmmmm? My personal answer certainly helped clear away

many of the spiritual cobwebs that were hanging tough on that dirty ole

cage with all that ole spiritual thinking clogging up that part of my bird brain.:rolleyes::D

In other words it was time to let go of some of the ole understandings

I had regarding this scripture and listen to my father. I certainly had things

reversed. (SHEESH)!!!


Jehovah taught me that if I want to learn and understand I have to follow

the direction of his Holy Spirit for me. He knows me, he understands me. He will

give an answer to & for me. But I have to shut up. He can't answer if I am

babbling on and don't stop to listen to him. For crying out loud his love

was almost knocking me over and I was still whining. :rolleyes: But once my Father

showed me, WOW!! BAM!!! Old thinking just started falling off, the brain opened

up and stuff is just flowing through. The scriptures will open up to you, you can

hear Jehovah talking (and you know what I mean y'all. No I am not

hearing voices - laughing - don't even go there.:)) Had to clarify that

for some of you funnies on board (LOL) You know who you are!!!


So if ya need help in clarifying something - you have to ask our Father. He will

let you know that worshipping him in Spirit and in Truth is just that. His

Holy Spirit will direct you to the truths you need to draw closer to him

and to help yourself and others.


Take care now OKEY DOKEY. HOLD ON TIGHT TO JEHOVAH AND

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, PRAY AND LISTEN AND DON'T GIVE UP

UNTIL JEHOVAH ANSWERS YOU. DO NOT WALK OUT THERE

ON YOUR OWN, AND DO NOT WALK OUT ON SOMEONE ELSE'

UNDERSTANDING. THAT IS A TOTAL NO NO. JEHOVAH WILL

HELP YOU TAKE BACK AND TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY

REGARDING YOUR SPIRITUALITY. HE WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT TO

EAT AND WHAT TO REJECT REGARDING INFO YOU RECEIVE IF YOU

STILL ATTEND MEETINGS OR WHEN LISTENING TO ANYONE ELSE.


READ HIS WORD EVERY DAY EVEN IF IT IS JUST ONE SCRIPTURE.

PRAY TO JEHOVAH EVEN IF IT IS JUST 2 MINUTES. DRAW CLOSE TO

JEHOVAH O.K


James 4:8

Draw close to Jehovah and he will draw close to you..................

1 Thess 5:17

Pray Incessantly

1 Thess 5:19

DO NOT put out the fire of the spirit.

With Love

E & E

So glad you expressed your thoughts sis, I don't feel so alone now.
Sometimes I feel guilty to admit that I didnt learn all of what I know from WT publications, but truth be known, the basic truths that I did learn from them, set me on a path in search of what Jesus descibes as "hidden treasure".
It took me many years to understand that it was how Jehovah viewed me that mattered, and that only he knew me inside out, and not those who held a titled position.
Like you E&E I too came out of the truth, and I have to say my experiences both good and bad, made me for the first time have to rely on Jehovah and his holy spirit for direction.
At this point I really felt that he was my father, especially when I saw how his holy spirit can manouver the impossible.
Eventually I learnt the hidden treasure was in Christ Jesus that carrying the torture stake took me even closer to this prize, without sacrifice how can we even start to understand christs sacrificial love.
What the society fails to see at times, is that we have "free will" given to us by Jehovah and Jesus made provisions through his sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins which we gain because of his undeserved kindness.
Instead where made to feel burdened and guilty, even when we have been forgiven. How can we appreciate the loving provision of Christ Jesus, when the Watchtower stands in his place.
As long as we rely totally on Jehovah and his son, we can free ourselves from that spiritual cage you mentioned and spread our wings and fly.
Freedom to worship in spirit and truth is "essential" for our spiritual growth and personal relationship with Jehovah otherwise we succumb to a spiritual deathlike state.


Just Keep doing what your doing sis cos your on the right path:)


Blessings
Elizabeth x

[Eyes & Ears]

So glad you expressed your thoughts sis, I don't feel so alone now.
Sometimes I feel guilty to admit that I didnt learn all of what I know from WT publications, but truth be known, the basic truths that I did learn from them, set me on a path in search of what Jesus descibes as "hidden treasure".
It took me many years to understand that it was how Jehovah viewed me that mattered, and that only he knew me inside out, and not those who held a titled position.
Like you E&E I too came out of the truth, and I have to say my experiences both good and bad, made me for the first time have to rely on Jehovah and his holy spirit for direction.
At this point I really felt that he was my father, especially when I saw how his holy spirit can manouver the impossible.
Eventually I learnt the hidden treasure was in Christ Jesus that carrying the torture stake took me even closer to this prize, without sacrifice how can we even start to understand christs sacrificial love.
What the society fails to see at times, is that we have "free will" given to us by Jehovah and Jesus made provisions through his sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins which we gain because of his undeserved kindness.
Instead where made to feel burdened and guilty, even when we have been forgiven. How can we appreciate the loving provision of Christ Jesus, when the Watchtower stands in his place.
As long as we rely totally on Jehovah and his son, we can free ourselves from that spiritual cage you mentioned and spread our wings and fly.
Freedom to worship in spirit and truth is "essential" for our spiritual growth and personal relationship with Jehovah otherwise we succumb to a spiritual deathlike state.


Just Keep doing what your doing sis cos your on the right path:)


Blessings
Elizabeth x



Ya know Liz, I have been through so much it would fill volumes. (Not to minimize the painful experiences of yourself and others here.)

If we all were to drag out our ole skeletons it would fill up several cemetaries with all those dried up bones (stories/experiences)

My point in saying that is during my 4-times leaving the org and returning I did not learn very much until the last time I left. The last time I left I was much older I was in my 50's. AHA!!! By then you are slowing down and you tend to view life a tad differently then, just a tad (LOL) at least I did. I realized that my time left on this earth was not guaranteed. I had lost so many people I grew up with.

Also I no longer felt worthless. It seemed everytime I attended a meeting I felt beat up, not doing enough, I didn't half understand how they pieced many things together and I felt so much of what was being taught was not that it was wrong, but just did not make sense (add up) I still had not a clue as to why.

So I did a baddy, I went to a "Christian Book Store" (heavens forbid) I purchased several Bibles and started reading and praying again. Some things were opened up, but I found that I needed more help, and I have shared several times and just recently how I found the e-watchman site.

But let me back up a little.

During this last time out (I eventually DA myself again for the second time, don't ask, I was such a mess (eyes rolling and head spinning) I felt free. What I mean by that is I felt a burden had been lifted. I was able to study when I wanted, read what I wanted and say what I wanted. I was OKEY DOKEY. I talked to people openly, asked questions, sat down and exchanged scriptures with some of my neighbors.

However something was still lacking. I found I needed more help. That is when I started searching the net after purchasing a computer, etc. etc.

It was then that I realized that there were so many others were going through some of the same thinking, feelings, etc that I was.

Leaving out much and skipping around (LOL) I finally learned what it means to have a relationship with Jehovah. As yourself I learned that it is important on how Jehovah views me PERIOD!!! I just mentioned to husband several days ago during a discussion we were having that I don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks about me. I have not done anything to anyone in any congregation to think anything ugly of me.

When all is said and done only Jehovah will give us life and if it was not for his son where would we all be (rhetorical). Once I got an understanding of this, I did not become arrogant or overbearing or haughty, etc. I just had a different attitude about how I am viewed by humans. As long as I am not doing anything to provoke, cause problems, etc. etc. then your perception of me is just that, your perception.

I treat everyone with respect (even when that is hard - LOL) I mind my own business and basically stay to myself. I have always been a loner. Could be from being an only child, who knows. I do like people though. But can only deal with them on a short term basis (laughing) Two hours is enough (meeting times)

I am known for telling you though to hit the bricks when I have had enough of your company, and no one gets offended. They just think I am a funny nutty ole lady. (laughing).

I had to learn that the reason why we are all so burdened down and beat up is because the load we are carrying is not the load Jesus talked about in

Matthew 11:30

For my yoke is kindly and my load is light

BUT more of the yoke found in Matthew 23:4-12

They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger............................

I also had to learn and understand about what was and what is being allowed but not approved by Jehovah (operation of error, etc.............)

Learning all of this helped me in understanding, but still hurts me to the very core of knowing as I expessed in a previous thread today about the friends possibly being in a very serious position if they do not wake up. It could mean the loss of their lives. This is painful. But I will patiently wait upon Jehovah as the saying goes until FURTHER NOTICE. :D, and I pray that I recognize that notice when it is sent, as I do for all of us.

Well, we certainly all have grown up and come a long way than when we first found this site. I know I have. I thank Jehovah for all those that have shared thoughtful scriptural tid bits.

I learned so much from Watchman's writings and remember printing so much. I
used so much paper and ink, and then had to find a hiding place from my husband (laughing). I still do that. I don't want any Stuff hitting the fan. I'm not one for confrontation if it can be avoided. I am not a follower, but I don't like shouting, fighting it is too much for me. Never was one for that type of carryings on.

Yepper Liz, I also had to get a better understanding of Jehovah's Son's ransom sacrifice and when it sunk it, it nearly broke me down. Powerful, very powerful.

I am also one who now truly understands the power of Jehovah's Holy Spirit. What this has done for me is to help me understand this is Jehovah's purpose, not mine. He does not need me to tell him what to do, I need him to tell me what to do and direct me, a little speck of a dust ball that I am. PSALMS 103:14. I don't make up stuff and then expect Jehovah to bless it. I have to follow the footsteps of his son, obey Jehovah, etc. and he will bless my efforts.

It took me a long time to understand. But I had to pray to Jehovah for his Holy Spirit, then and only then did I get the understanding.

Yes, Liz we who understand and obey Jehovah, follow his direction are truly blessed. I have asked Jehovah to please use me anyway he see's fit. I know that I am nothing and all I have comes from Jehovah. Any gift I have, any insight I have, etc. I ask Jehovah to keep me humble and not get to uppity and cute. Help me to remember where I have been so I don't ever go back there again.

All I can conclude with is to say HOLD ON TIGHT LIZ, CONTINUE TO SHARE
and help all on board and those you come into contact with. Jehovah is watching us and he will help us to do his will the way he wants it to be done.

I have gained much insight from you lately Liz. May Jehovah continue to bless you as you share with us on board.

Love to you and your kiddies (laughing)

E & E

[shikinah]

Ya know Liz, I have been through so much it would fill volumes. (Not to minimize the painful experiences of yourself and others here.)

If we all were to drag out our ole skeletons it would fill up several cemetaries with all those dried up bones (stories/experiences)

My point in saying that is during my 4-times leaving the org and returning I did not learn very much until the last time I left. The last time I left I was much older I was in my 50's. AHA!!! By then you are slowing down and you tend to view life a tad differently then, just a tad (LOL) at least I did. I realized that my time left on this earth was not guaranteed. I had lost so many people I grew up with.

Also I no longer felt worthless. It seemed everytime I attended a meeting I felt beat up, not doing enough, I didn't half understand how they pieced many things together and I felt so much of what was being taught was not that it was wrong, but just did not make sense (add up) I still had not a clue as to why.

So I did a baddy, I went to a "Christian Book Store" (heavens forbid) I purchased several Bibles and started reading and praying again. Some things were opened up, but I found that I needed more help, and I have shared several times and just recently how I found the e-watchman site.

But let me back up a little.

During this last time out (I eventually DA myself again for the second time, don't ask, I was such a mess (eyes rolling and head spinning) I felt free. What I mean by that is I felt a burden had been lifted. I was able to study when I wanted, read what I wanted and say what I wanted. I was OKEY DOKEY. I talked to people openly, asked questions, sat down and exchanged scriptures with some of my neighbors.

However something was still lacking. I found I needed more help. That is when I started searching the net after purchasing a computer, etc. etc.

It was then that I realized that there were so many others were going through some of the same thinking, feelings, etc that I was.

Leaving out much and skipping around (LOL) I finally learned what it means to have a relationship with Jehovah. As yourself I learned that it is important on how Jehovah views me PERIOD!!! I just mentioned to husband several days ago during a discussion we were having that I don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks about me. I have not done anything to anyone in any congregation to think anything ugly of me.

When all is said and done only Jehovah will give us life and if it was not for his son where would we all be (rhetorical). Once I got an understanding of this, I did not become arrogant or overbearing or haughty, etc. I just had a different attitude about how I am viewed by humans. As long as I am not doing anything to provoke, cause problems, etc. etc. then your perception of me is just that, your perception.

I treat everyone with respect (even when that is hard - LOL) I mind my own business and basically stay to myself. I have always been a loner. Could be from being an only child, who knows. I do like people though. But can only deal with them on a short term basis (laughing) Two hours is enough (meeting times)

I am known for telling you though to hit the bricks when I have had enough of your company, and no one gets offended. They just think I am a funny nutty ole lady. (laughing).

I had to learn that the reason why we are all so burdened down and beat up is because the load we are carrying is not the load Jesus talked about in

Matthew 11:30

For my yoke is kindly and my load is light

BUT more of the yoke found in Matthew 23:4-12

They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger............................

I also had to learn and understand about what was and what is being allowed but not approved by Jehovah (operation of error, etc.............)

Learning all of this helped me in understanding, but still hurts me to the very core of knowing as I expessed in a previous thread today about the friends possibly being in a very serious position if they do not wake up. It could mean the loss of their lives. This is painful. But I will patiently wait upon Jehovah as the saying goes until FURTHER NOTICE. :D, and I pray that I recognize that notice when it is sent, as I do for all of us.

Well, we certainly all have grown up and come a long way than when we first found this site. I know I have. I thank Jehovah for all those that have shared thoughtful scriptural tid bits.

I learned so much from Watchman's writings and remember printing so much. I
used so much paper and ink, and then had to find a hiding place from my husband (laughing). I still do that. I don't want any Stuff hitting the fan. I'm not one for confrontation if it can be avoided. I am not a follower, but I don't like shouting, fighting it is too much for me. Never was one for that type of carryings on.

Yepper Liz, I also had to get a better understanding of Jehovah's Son's ransom sacrifice and when it sunk it, it nearly broke me down. Powerful, very powerful.

I am also one who now truly understands the power of Jehovah's Holy Spirit. What this has done for me is to help me understand this is Jehovah's purpose, not mine. He does not need me to tell him what to do, I need him to tell me what to do and direct me, a little speck of a dust ball that I am. PSALMS 103:14. I don't make up stuff and then expect Jehovah to bless it. I have to follow the footsteps of his son, obey Jehovah, etc. and he will bless my efforts.

It took me a long time to understand. But I had to pray to Jehovah for his Holy Spirit, then and only then did I get the understanding.

Yes, Liz we who understand and obey Jehovah, follow his direction are truly blessed. I have asked Jehovah to please use me anyway he see's fit. I know that I am nothing and all I have comes from Jehovah. Any gift I have, any insight I have, etc. I ask Jehovah to keep me humble and not get to uppity and cute. Help me to remember where I have been so I don't ever go back there again.

All I can conclude with is to say HOLD ON TIGHT LIZ, CONTINUE TO SHARE
and help all on board and those you come into contact with. Jehovah is watching us and he will help us to do his will the way he wants it to be done.

I have gained much insight from you lately Liz. May Jehovah continue to bless you as you share with us on board.

Love to you and your kiddies (laughing)

E & E

Your humility and honesty E&E is so moving, and your personal feelings of whats happening inside the org, is refreshing and helpful to others who are also confined to the tower:)
What you said about the (operation of error) is very true, I cant remember ever seeing this scripture while in the truth, and if I had it may have prevented me from making some wrong choices. But I guess this scripture seen or unseen only seems to make sense once you have been made to stumble and search for answers.
Jehovahs wisdom and timing is spot on, sometimes your dumb struck when you see how it all falls into place.
We are truely blessed E&E, Jehovahs see's all of our needs, and even gave us this little spiritual shelter, to help us cope with the immense load we are carrying at this time.

Oh and those kids grrr:mad:
Phew take a nice deep breath:)


Love
Shikinah