Jeremiah

[Jeshurun]

Regarding the wide-mouthed cooking pot, the 2/15/73 Watchtower (the good old days) had this insightful knowledge:</span>

Jerusalem was thus likened to a widemouthed cooking pot. The stacking of the logs underneath and the setting of them afire would therefore represent the siege of Jerusalem. That siege would gradually make it hot like boiling water for those inside the city. The pieces of flesh put into the pot would picture those inside Jerusalem, including the refugees that fled to it from before the advancing Babylonian armies. The good pieces put in would picture those of the better social class of the city, especially the king and his princes. Since the bones make up the framework that supports the fleshly body, the “choicest bones” would picture those that held up the structure of the national organism, namely, the military commanders and their staff of officers. All were to “cook” during the siege.

The bloodguiltiness of Jerusalem’s inhabitants made them deserving of such calamity. Jehovah through Ezekiel declared:

“Woe to the city of deeds of bloodshed, the widemouthed cooking pot, the rust of which is in it, and the very rust of which has not gone forth from it! Piece by piece of it, bring it out; no lot must be cast over it. For its very blood has come to be right in the midst of it. Upon the shining, bare surface of a crag she placed it. She did not pour it out upon the earth, in order to cover it over with dust. In order to bring up rage for the executing of vengeance, I have put her blood upon the shining, bare surface of a crag, in order that it may not be covered over.”—Ezek. 24:6-8.

<span style="color:#000080">The moral scum and filth within the symbolic cooking pot, bloodguilty Jerusalem, clung tenaciously to its sides and caused rust to form. That scum and filth could simply not be washed or scoured out. Jerusalem’s regard for human blood was so low that she did not even pour out the blood of her victims and cover it over with dust. She did less for her human victims than what God’s law commanded to be done in the case of the blood of an animal killed in hunting. (Lev. 17:13, 14) Jerusalem shamelessly poured out violently shed blood upon the shining, bare surface of a crag for it to be openly exposed as a testimony to her criminality. This contempt for human blood stirred up Jehovah’s rage. He was determined not to let her bloodstained record be covered over but to expose it to public gaze like blood on a dustless, shining, bare surface of a crag. The criminals in Jerusalem would be brought out to justice indiscriminately, “piece by piece.” No selective lots would be cast over them.

Would love to hear all your thoughts on the first 13 verses.

Verses 14-19 tomorrow!

[Candace]

My comments:

Jehovah doesn&#39;t do anything without first warning the people. In fact, in reading Jeremiah you see the full extent of how often they were warned, but they did not want to listen. Hardhearted people indeed!

Also, when Jehovah talks about destruction and tearing down, he immediately follows it with building and planting. This should give people of faith hope, because his intent is not just to destroy, but to restore.

And that restoration was badly needed back in Jeremiah&#39;s day, as you can see from the supplemental material provided in the &#39;73 WT article. We can see how our present day situation is similarly in need of a tearing down and a rebuilding (see Watchman&#39;s latest commentary).

[eyes&ears]

I&#39;ll be back to comment after meeting today. See ya all later. I like this idea Jesh.


E & E

[Molly]

This is a great idea Jeshurun!!!! Can&#39;t wait to hear what others have to say.

Thought I&#39;d mention that verse 8 bolsters our courage: "Do not be afraid because of their faces, for &#39;I am with you to deliver you,&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah."

I suppose that should be our attitude with regard to the congregations. They do not want to hear the message that everything they think is protected by Jehovah is going to be destroyed and then later rebuilt. I know Watchman&#39;s efforts have required him to be steadfast in his convictions about the prophecies. The pressure to conform to the WTS&#39;s point of view is enormous, but our loyalty is to Jehovah, not the WTS.

Molly

[Nambo]

What about verse 10?
¹⁰ See, I have commissioned you this day to be over the nations and over the kingdoms, in order to uproot and to pull down and to destroy and to tear down, to build and to plant.”
Over the nations and over the Kingdoms, does this imply Jeremiahs message was intended more than for just the apostate Israel of his day, but maybe for all nations especially now?

[Jeshurun]

^{Let us now consider the final 6 verses of chapter one:}

¹⁴ At this Jehovah said to me: “Out of the north the calamity will be loosened against all the inhabitants of the land. ¹⁵ For ‘here I am calling for all the families of the kingdoms of the north,’ is the utterance of Jehovah; ‘and they will certainly come and place each one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all her walls round about and against all the cities of Judah. ¹⁶ And I will speak with them my judgments over all their badness, in that they have left me and they keep making sacrificial smoke to other gods and bowing down to the works of their own hands.’

¹⁷ “And as for you, you should gird up your hips, and you must rise up and speak to them everything that I myself command you. Do not be struck with any terror because of them, in order that I may not strike you with terror before them. ¹⁸ But as for me, here I have made you today a fortified city and an iron pillar and copper walls against all the land, toward the kings of Judah, toward her princes, toward her priests and toward the people of the land. ¹⁹ And they will be certain to fight against you, but they will not prevail against you, for ‘I am with you,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘to deliver you.’”

Any comments please?

[Molly]

Hi All-

In verse 16 we read that his judgments will come because of their (Watchtower&#39;s) badness. I find it a wonder that those in the Kingdom Halls do not seem to note that there is any badness. I realize that those of us at this site are totally aware of the problems but it amazes me that so many can sit through the meetings and not realize that there is something wrong with what is being said. Today&#39;s WT study is a perfect example. The WTS is just full of themselves - "bowinig down to the works of their own hands."

But in verse 17, Jeremiah is clearly told not to be overly impressed and certainly not to fear them. That is how we should feel today about the misguided advice that the WT dispenses. They are in line for Jehovah&#39;s judgment and we should not feel any guilt for disclosing this to them. Of course it is difficult and there would be repercussions for our stand but we would be taking a stand with Jehovah, as Jeremiah did against the false prophets in his time.

And, of course, verse 19 helps us to realize that even if the Society were to attack us for our stand, "they will not prevail against you, for &#39;I am with you&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah, &#39;to deliver you.&#39;" Naturally this is directed primarily to the anointed, but certainly the other sheep rally to the call and whole heartedly want to assist them in any way they can.

This is a wonderful and comforting chapter in that it shows that Jehovah is supporting those that choose true worship over the false worship of the WTS.

Molly

[stayawake]

Quote from Molly>
And, of course, verse 19 helps us to realize that even if the Society were to attack us for our stand, "they will not prevail against you, for &#39;I am with you&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah, &#39;to deliver you.&#39;" Naturally this is directed primarily to the anointed, but certainly the other sheep rally to the call and whole heartedly want to assist them in any way they can.

This is a wonderful and comforting chapter in that it shows that Jehovah is supporting those that choose true worship over the false worship of the WTS.<End of quote.


Molly thats sooo true,
I don&#39;t know where , but one of the prophets makes mention that every ones hand will be against his brother. But like your post brings out we will prevail ,because we took sides with Jehovah.
It is amazing how once one is able to stand out and look in, how clear everything looks.
I reall enjoyed your thinking cap on this one Molly.
Thank you
love stayawake

[Jeshurun]

Thank you for all of your wonderful comments and insights on the first chapter of Jeremiah.

In conclusion I would like to point out that the "sacrificial smoke to other gods" in verse 16 could also be referencing the sacrifice of children to Baal due to the Watchtower&#39;s pedophile policies.

I look forward to moving on to the second chapter.

Have a good nite everyone.

Lou

[Jeshurun]

Any help here would be very much appreciated!

[Jeshurun]

No, brothers and sisters, I haven&#39;t forgotten the Jeremiah study.



I apologize for the small fonts and size changes, etc. For some reason when I cut and paste from the WT cd-rom the lines get garbled. I guess it&#39;s a software glitch. To try to prevent that, I assemble the post in Microsoft word and cut and paste from there, but that presents problems of it&#39;s own.



Anyway, we left off in chapter 2, verses 14-19. Here it is again:



¹⁴ "&#39;Is Israel a servant, or a slave born in the household? Why is it that he has come to be for plunder? ¹⁵ Against him maned young lions roar; they have given out their voice. And they went making his land an object of astonishment. His own cities have been set afire, so that there is no inhabitant. ¹⁶ Even the sons of Noph and Tah´pan·es themselves kept feeding on you at the crown of the head. ¹⁷ Is not this what you proceeded to do to yourself by your leaving Jehovah your God during the time of [his] walking you in the way? ¹⁸ And now what concern should you have for the way of Egypt in order to drink the waters of Shi´hor? And what concern should you have for the way of As·syr´i·a in order to drink the waters of the River? ¹⁹ Your badness should correct you, and your own acts of unfaithfulness should reprove you. Know, then, and see that your leaving Jehovah your God is something bad and bitter, and no dread of me [has resulted] to you,&#39; is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies.



Noph and Tephanes were major commercial centers in Egypt, and "the crown of the head" refers to the Nile delta.



It would seem that these verses have a fulfillment in our day. Jehovah&#39;s people have left his "living waters" and are drinking from the waters of Shi&#39;hor. Interestingly, Shi&#39;hor is from Egyptian, meaning "Pond of Horus", and refers to the easternmost branch of the Nile River Delta.



Jehovah here shows us that our own acts of unfaithfulness should reprove us, and that seeking independence from him will only lead to calamity for ourselves.



Here is the rest of the chapter, for your reading pleasure. Looking forward to your comments.



²⁰ "&#39;For long ago I broke your yoke to pieces; I tore your bands apart. But you said: "I am not going to serve," for upon every high hill and under every luxuriant tree you were lying sprawled out, prostituting yourself. ²¹ And as for me, I had planted you as a choice red vine, all of it a true seed. So how have you been changed toward me into the degenerate [shoots] of a foreign vine?&#39;

²² "&#39;But though you should do the washing with alkali and take to yourself large quantities of lye, your error would certainly be a stain before me,&#39; is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ²³ How can you say, &#39;I have not defiled myself. After the Ba´als I have not walked&#39;? See your way in the valley. Take note of what you have done. A swift young she-camel aimlessly running to and fro in her ways; ²⁴ a zebra accustomed to the wilderness, at the craving of her soul, snuffing up the wind; at her time for copulation, who can turn her back? All those who are looking for her will not go tiring themselves out. In her month they will find her. ²⁵ Hold your foot back from barefoot, and your throat from thirst. But you proceeded to say, &#39;It is hopeless! No, but I have fallen in love with strangers, and after them I am going to walk.&#39;

[b]²⁶ "As with the shame of a thief when he is found out, so those of the house of Israel have felt shame, they, their kings, their princes and their priests and their prophets. ²⁷ They are saying to a tree, &#39;You are my father,&#39; and to a stone, &#39;You yourself brought me to birth.&#39; But to me they have turned the back of the neck and not the face. And in the time of their calamity they will say, &#39;Do rise up and save us!&#39;

²⁸ "But where are your gods that you have made for yourself? Let them rise up if they can save you in the time of your calamity. For as the number of your cities your gods have become, O Judah.

²⁹ "&#39;Why do YOU people keep contending against me? Why have YOU transgressed, all of YOU, against me?&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah. ³⁰ To no effect I have struck YOUR sons. No discipline did they take. YOUR sword has devoured YOUR prophets, like a lion that is causing ruin. ³¹ O generation, see for yourselves the word of Jehovah.

"Have I become a mere wilderness to Israel or a land of intense darkness? Why is it that these, my people, have said, &#39;We have roamed. We shall come to you no more&#39;? ³² Can a virgin forget her ornaments, a bride her breastbands? And yet my own people—they have forgotten me days without number.

³³ "Why do you, O woman, improve your way in order to look for love? Therefore it has also been in bad things that you have taught your ways. ³⁴ Also, in your skirts there have been found the blood marks of the souls of the innocent poor ones. Not in the act of breaking in have I found them, but [they are] upon all these.

³⁵ "But you say, &#39;I have remained innocent. Surely his anger has turned back from me.&#39;

"Here I am entering into controversy with you on account of your saying, &#39;I have not sinned.&#39; ³⁶ Why do you treat as very insignificant the changing of your way? Of Egypt, too, you will become ashamed, just as you became ashamed of As·syr´i·a. ³⁷ For this cause also you will go forth with your hands upon your head, because Jehovah has rejected the objects of your confidence, and you will have no success with them."

[Molly]

I thought that verse 22 was interesting in that it showed just how thoroughly tainted the situation had become. "&#39;But though you should do the washing with alkali and take to yourself large quantities of lye, your error would certainly be a stain before me,&#39; is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah." Considering the caustic characteristics of alkali and lye, it is as if even the harshest scrubbing would not eliminate the stain.

Then He asks, "How can you say, &#39;I have not defiled myself. After the Ba&#39;als I have not walked?&#39;" How interesting that there is a denial of the sin. In verse 35 the claim is made that he remains innocent and did not sin, even after Jehovah has just enumerated the sins. I think here of the NGO affair. It is the WTS&#39;s contention that they did not "sin" by their association. Additionallly, they regard the congregations as in a spiritual paradise even though they are really a paradise for the beastlike pedophiles that roam freely amongst the sheep, undeterred from their perversions and unrestrained by those charged with the duty to protect. Even more perverse, they tell the sheep that the shepherd will care for them, while telling the courts that the shepherds have no duty to protect the sheep. No sins? Who do they think they are kidding.

Considering the other Scriptures listed, one has to wonder if there are things that are going on that are yet to be revealed.

Molly

[Jeshurun]

Considering the other Scriptures listed, one has to wonder if there are things that are going on that are yet to be revealed.[/b]

Yes Molly, I think you nailed it there. As much as we can see from reading this how Jehovah is so upset by his people not being patient and trusting in him, we can see just a little bit into the future and envision Jehovah saying these things after the Great Apostasy has taken place. That&#39;s why in verse 27 says "They will say in the time of their calamity, do rise up and save us!" But Jehovah responds by saying: "Where are your gods that you have made for yourself? Let them rise up and save you."

I think we can all understand Jehovah&#39;s frustration here, and how jilted he feels. Even his jealousy is showing. It&#39;s a feeling we all have when someone we love doesn&#39;t show confidence in us to help them, and instead turn to someone else to do what they should have known that no one else can do, if they only practiced what they preached!

And it seems that this mistrust and lack of faith becomes obvious for all to see, as Jehovah says:

Not in the act of breaking in have I found them, but [they are] upon all these.

³⁵ "But you say, &#39;I have remained innocent. Surely his anger has turned back from me.&#39;

"Here I am entering into controversy with you on account of your saying, &#39;I have not sinned.

Remind us of anyone? Someone who can do no wrong, but even when they do, claim that they are spirit-directed?

Finally, Jehovah says:

³⁶ Why do you treat as very insignificant the changing of your way? Of Egypt, too, you will become ashamed, just as you became ashamed of As·syr´i·a. ³⁷ For this cause also you will go forth with your hands upon your head, because Jehovah has rejected the objects of your confidence, and you will have no success with them."

Perhaps the initial attack on God&#39;s house, before the earth comes to "the woman&#39;s help" is from the 7th head and not the 8th King? Because so many places in prophecy seem to indicate an alliance with Egypt perhaps the Watchtower strikes a deal with the US regime to avoid persecution after martial law is declared and the neocons have their dictatorship?

This might explain why they become "ashamed" of their striking that deal after America becomes a third world country overnight. The same way they will be ashamed of making a "transgression of desolation" with the 8th king while they watch him go down also?

Stay tuned for chapter 3, closing comments welcome!

Agape
Lou

[Molly]

Perhaps the initial attack on God&#39;s house, before the earth comes to "the woman&#39;s help" is from the 7th head and not the 8th King? Because so many places in prophecy seem to indicate an alliance with Egypt perhaps the Watchtower strikes a deal with the US regime to avoid persecution after martial law is declared and the neocons have their dictatorship?

This might explain why they become "ashamed" of their striking that deal after America becomes a third world country overnight. The same way they will be ashamed of making a "transgression of desolation" with the 8th king while they watch him go down also?

Agape
Lou[/b]

In order for the prophesies to be in concert, some alliance with Egypt (7th power) is necessary. I have been looking for the very same thing. It may yet be ahead (unless it has happened and we don&#39;t know it as yet)!!!! The NWO certainly has enough to hang the WTS due to its duplicitous dealings with the UN. The plot thickens!!!

Molly

[Jeshurun]

The third chapter of Jeremiah gives us a vivid picture of Jehovah&#39;s feelings toward the "renegade sons" of Israel and Judah, but here Jehovah also reveals his Divine plan to regather his people from the "land of the north".









3 There is a saying: "If a man should send away his wife and she should actually go away from him and become another man&#39;s, should he return to her anymore?"

Has that land not positively been polluted?

"And you yourself have committed prostitution with many companions; and should there be a returning to me?" is the utterance of Jehovah. ² "Raise your eyes to the beaten paths and see. Where is it that you have not been raped? Alongside the ways you have sat for them, like an Arabian in the wilderness; and you keep polluting the land with your acts of prostitution and with your badness. ³ So copious showers are withheld, and not even a spring rain has occurred. And the forehead of a wife committing prostitution is what has become yours. You have refused to feel humiliated. ⁴ Have you from now on called out to me, &#39;My Father, you are the confidential friend of my youth! ⁵ Should one stay resentful to time indefinite, or keep watching [something] forever?&#39; Look! You have spoken, and you went on to do bad things and prevail."

⁶ And Jehovah proceeded to say to me in the days of Jo·si´ah the king: "&#39;Have you seen what unfaithful Israel has done? She is going upon every high mountain and underneath every luxuriant tree, that she may commit prostitution there. ⁷ And after her doing all these things I kept saying that she should return even to me, but she did not return; and Judah kept looking at her own treacherous sister. ⁸ When I got to see that, for the very reason that unfaithful Israel had committed adultery, I sent her away and proceeded to give the certificate of her full divorce to her, yet treacherously dealing Judah her sister did not become afraid, but she herself also began to go and commit prostitution. ⁹ And her prostitution occurred because of [her] frivolous view, and she kept polluting the land and committing adultery with stones and with trees; ¹⁰ and even for all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, only falsely,&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah."

¹¹ And Jehovah went on to say to me: "Unfaithful Israel has proved her own soul to be more righteous than treacherously dealing Judah. ¹² Go, and you must proclaim these words to the north and say:

"&#39;"Do return, O renegade Israel," is the utterance of Jehovah.&#39; &#39;"I shall not have my face drop [angrily] upon YOU people, for I am loyal," is the utterance of Jehovah.&#39; &#39;"I shall not stay resentful to time indefinite. ¹³ Only take note of your error, for it is against Jehovah your God that you have transgressed. And you continued scattering your ways to the strangers under every luxuriant tree, but to my voice YOU people did not listen," is the utterance of Jehovah.&#39;"

¹⁴ "Return, O YOU renegade sons," is the utterance of Jehovah. "For I myself have become the husbandly owner of YOU people; and I will take YOU, one out of a city and two out of a family, and I will bring YOU to Zion. ¹⁵ And I will give YOU shepherds in agreement with my heart, and they will certainly feed YOU with knowledge and insight. ¹⁶ And it must occur that YOU will become many and certainly bear fruit in the land in those days," is the utterance of Jehovah. "No more will they say, &#39;The ark of the covenant of Jehovah!&#39; nor will it come up into the heart, nor will they remember it or miss it, and no more will it be made. ¹⁷ In that time they will call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah; and to her all the nations must be brought together to the name of Jehovah at Jerusalem, and they will no more walk after the stubbornness of their bad heart."

¹⁸ "In those days they will walk, the house of Judah alongside the house of Israel, and together they will come out of the land of the north into the land that I gave as a hereditary possession to YOUR forefathers. ¹⁹ And I myself have said, &#39;O how I proceeded to place you among the sons and to give you the desirable land, the hereditary possession of the ornament of the armies of the nations!&#39; And I further said, &#39;"My Father!" YOU people will call out to me, and from following me YOU people will not turn back.&#39; ²⁰ &#39;Truly [as] a wife has treacherously gone from her companion, so YOU, O house of Israel, have dealt treacherously with me,&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah."

²¹ On the beaten paths there has been heard a sound, the weeping, the entreaties of the sons of Israel. For they have twisted their way; they have forgotten Jehovah their God.

²² "Return, YOU renegade sons. I shall heal YOUR renegade condition."

"Here we are! We have come to you, for you, O Jehovah, are our God. ²³ Truly the hills as well as the turmoil on the mountains belong to falsehood. Truly in Jehovah our God is the salvation of Israel. ²⁴ But the shameful thing itself has eaten up the toil of our forefathers from our youth, their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters. ²⁵ We lie down in our shame, and our humiliation keeps covering us; for it is toward Jehovah our God that we have sinned, we and our fathers from our youth on and down to this day, and we have not obeyed the voice of Jehovah our God."

I think this pretty much sums up our situation here at e-Watchman:

¹⁵ And I will give YOU shepherds in agreement with my heart, and they will certainly feed YOU with knowledge and insight.

Thanks Robert for all of your hard work.

I see many other parallels in this chapter for today. Any thoughts about it out there?

Would love to hear all of your insights.