And Speaking Of Gag Orders...

[Reader]

how about today's WT study. Hard to keep one's self from wretching.

Para 11 talks about the GB meeting every Wednesday. Oh to be a fly on the wall for those meetings. Anybody got any listening devices?

Para 12: There is no scripture that they can use to back up that 'we the sheeple' need to show respect for the 'faithful slave' except that lame one. There is no corelation at all.

Para 13: It is our "sacred duty" to uphold the direction from the GB? What about not putting our trust in the 'sons of earthing man?'

Para 16: This is the worst. "They humbly acknowledge that were it not for the faithful and discreet slave, they would know little or nothing of precious bible truths." B-L-A -S-P-M H-E-M-M-Y (to the tune of Mickey Mouse [hence the extra 'm'])


This meeting is going to be a fun one. Anybody make any interesting comments at their meeting? Or plan to?

Regards

Reader

[watchman]

how about today's WT study. Hard to keep one's self from wretching.

Para 11 talks about the GB meeting every Wednesday. Oh to be a fly on the wall for those meetings. Anybody got any listening devices?

Para 12: There is no scripture that they can use to back up that 'we the sheeple' need to show respect for the 'faithful slave' except that lame one. There is no corelation at all.

Para 13: It is our "sacred duty" to uphold the direction from the GB? What about not putting our trust in the 'sons of earthing man?'

Para 16: This is the worst. "They humbly acknowledge that were it not for the faithful and discreet slave, they would know little or nothing of precious bible truths." B-L-A -S-P-M H-E-M-M-Y (to the tune of Mickey Mouse [hence the extra 'm'])


This meeting is going to be a fun one. Anybody make any interesting comments at their meeting? Or plan to?

Regards

Reader[/b]

I think you are confusing a gag order :deal: with the gag reflex :icon8:

watchman :198:

[Jeshurun]

Oh to be a fly on the wall for those meetings.[/b]

That would be fun, but don't expect to fly away after the meeting. Your feet will be stuck in fresh plaster.

I'm sure many flies have been troweled to death on that wall.

[DoubtingThomas]

In his book (Crises of Conscience) former GB member Ray Franz describes in detail what these meetings are like. Ray Franz is an apostate. But his book was very insightful regarding the inner workings of the GB.

Did you know that to change an existing doctine or policy of JW's that it takes a 2/3 vote of the GB? Not a majority vote, but 2/3.

No wonder these men get little done. The ones that want to effect change - their hands are tied. And as Ray describes it - the newer GB members are afraid to speak up against the older ones. Three GB members have been removed in recent years for trying to rock the boat in this way.

So if any existing GB member sees a need to discuss say 1914 at one of these meetings, they will be considered "rebellious".

DT

[Reader]

Watchman - You're right. I probably am confused. All I know is that I was choking when I read both of those.

Jeshurun - If there are flies plastered into the wall, perhaps archaeologists will be able to find historic DNA and be able to clone the older GB members that have passed on.

DT - Which were the GB members that were dismissed recently. I am not aware of that.

[DoubtingThomas]

The 3 GB members who have been dismissed (or resigned or were forced out) since 1975 are: Ray Franz, Brother Leo Greenlees and Ewart Chitty.

There are currently 9 members of the GB. Brother Carey Barber died about three weeks ago. The WTBTS has never claimed they are successors of the apostles. There have rarely been exactly 12 members of the GB.

For more information see the following article in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governing_Bod...h%27s_Witnesses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governing_Body_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses)

[Jeshurun]

In his book (Crises of Conscience) former GB member Ray Franz describes in detail what these meetings are like. Ray Franz is an apostate. But his book was very insightful regarding the inner workings of the GB.

Did you know that to change an existing doctine or policy of JW's that it takes a 2/3 vote of the GB? Not a majority vote, but 2/3.

No wonder these men get little done. The ones that want to effect change - their hands are tied. And as Ray describes it - the newer GB members are afraid to speak up against the older ones. Three GB members have been removed in recent years for trying to rock the boat in this way.

So if any existing GB member sees a need to discuss say 1914 at one of these meetings, they will be considered "rebellious".

DT[/b]

Perhaps the "good guys" on the GB are those whom Paul referred to at 2 Thess. 2:6 acting as a "restraint" to the man of lawlessness being revealed. The Watchtower says that this was fulfilled when the Apostles died off. As Watchman has shown us, the greatest apostasy is a future event. Now since the GB claim to be Apostles, as the older members of the GB die off, will this open the way for the Watchtower to go completely apostate with an open alliance with the UN?

Here's what the Watchtower itself has to say about this apostasy, from the Insight book under "Man of Lawlessness":

Revealed. Following the apostles’ death, "the man of lawlessness" came out into the open with his religious hypocrisy and false teachings. (2Th 2:3, 6, 8) According to Paul’s words, this "man" would gain great power, operating under Satan’s control, performing "every powerful work and lying signs and portents." Persons deceived by the operation of the composite "man of lawlessness" are referred to as "those who are perishing [literally, "destroying themselves"], as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved." The apostle shows that they "get to believing the lie" and they will all "be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2Th 2:9-12; see Int.) The judgment is therefore a condemnatory one.—See RESURRECTION (Sin against the holy spirit).

<span style="font-family:Verdana">Just my thoughts.

Lou


</span>

[Nash]

Hi DT,

Where did you hear that Geoffrey Jackson is no longer a member of the GB?

Nash

[DoubtingThomas]

My apologies Nash. It was not brother Jackson. It was Leo Greenlees. I edited my previous post. Thanks for pointing my error out to me. My apologies to Brother Geoffrey Jackson also. I didn&#39;t mean to give you the ax!

DT

[Nash]

Hi DT,

No need to apologize - and I wasn&#39;t looking for errors!

Cheers.

Nash

[Candace]

Jeshurun - If there are flies plastered into the wall, perhaps archaeologists will be able to find historic DNA and be able to clone the older GB members that have passed on.[/b]

If there are some mosquitoes the chance of finding DNA increases exponentially. :lol:

[Candace]

The WT today was quite a difficult one to sit through and not speak up....I&#39;m anxious to see if E&E cracked a tooth or something. I sure hope not! ;)

When I prepared the lesson if the answer was not in the paragraph (due to the teaching of the weeds) I wrote the correct answer at the bottom of the page or made a scriptural reference in the margin. It at least made me feel good to be able to write the truth down, even if I can&#39;t say it out loud.

I did sneak in a comment on paragraph 4. Here&#39;s how paragraph 4 went:

4 The prophecy of Malachi foretold that Jehovah, "the true Lord," accompanied by his "messenger of the covenant," would come in judgment to inspect His "temple," or spiritual house of worship. "The appointed time" for the &#39;judgment of the house of God&#39; to begin evidently arrived in 1918.* (Malachi 3:1; 1 Peter 4:17) Those claiming to represent God and his true worship on earth were duly examined. The churches of Christendom, who for centuries had taught God-dishonoring doctrines and had been heavily involved in the massacre of World War I, were rejected. A faithful remnant of spirit-anointed Christians were tested, refined as with fire, and approved, becoming to Jehovah "people presenting a gift offering in righteousness."--Malachi 3:3.

*For a detailed discussion of this subject, see The Watchtower, March 1, 2004, pages 13-18, and December 1, 1992, page 13.

The question for the paragraph says, "As foretold in Malachi&#39;s prophecy, what did Jehovah and Christ Jesus find when they came to the spiritual temple for inspection?

I found that a cross-reference scripture for 1 Peter 4:17 is 2 Thessalonians 2:8. So, after everyone answered the question, but before they moved on to the next paragraph, I raised my hand to comment. Of course, I prefaced my reading by clearly stating that this was the cross-reference scripture to 1 Peter 4:17, then very slowly read the scripture. And left it at that. The brother conducting the meeting then quickly applied the scripture I read to Christendom!!!! Of course it states in the paragraph the Jesus came to inspect HIS spiritual temple, and we know from reading 2 Thess. 2:4 that the man of lawlessness sits down in the temple of the True God.....but of course I couldn&#39;t point that out, without being hauled off to the library. But it did feel good to at least point out a scripture that tells the truth, instead of a lie, and if anyone was listening and had their ears open they would begin to see some spiritual light.

Paragraph 13 also shows that the spiritual temple refers to the anointed ones, it says:

13 Another Scriptural reason for showing respect for the faithful slave is that anointed Christians on earth are figuratively spoken of as a "temple" that Jehovah inhabits "by spirit." As such, they are "holy." (1 Corinthians 3: 16, 17; Ephesians 2:19-22) It is to this holy temple class that Jesus has entrusted his earthly belongings, which means that certain rights and responsibilities within the Christian congregation belong exclusively to the collective slave. For this reason, all in the congregation view it as their sacred duty to follow and uphold the direction coming from the faithful slave and its Governing Body. Indeed, the "other sheep" count it a real privilege to assist the slave class in caring for the Master&#39;s interests.--John 10:16.

I would like to ask the brother conducting the WT lesson how 2 Thess. 2:8 had its fulfillment back in 1918:

(2 Thessalonians 2:8) 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

How did the lawless one get revealed?

How was it brought to nothing by the manifestation of his presence?

Nothing means NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO......Certain parts of Christendom are thriving, such as the Mormons, Christian Scientists, and different fundamentalist religions. As Watchman&#39;s essays bring out, if we are to believe the WTS, then Jesus presence has been pretty ineffective.

And how was it that the man of lawlessness sat in the temple of the True God? (see reference Bible footnote 2 Thess. 2:4).

Of course, I know that these have a future fulfillment, but it would be nice to see how he would answer........

[Berean]

It was interesting how those different years were being thrown around: 1914, 1918, 1919... all without explanation.

But what I found most offensive (apart from the fact that a study about being loyal to Christ had exactly 2 whole paragraphs dedicated to his leadership... woohoo) was the paragraph toward the end. Reader already pointed it out, that we wouldn&#39;t know anything without the "FDS" (which just isn&#39;t true), and here comes the kicker: the other sheep follow the anointed because they&#39;re so thankful for what they&#39;ve done for them!!! :icon_eek: Uh... what about we became Christians because we love Jehovah and Jesus so much, and we&#39;re thankful for what they have done for us? Ugh...

[eyes&ears]

WEll Candi Candi Candi, my my my my my. First of all let me say that it was eerie in the KH during the WT. HARDLY ANYONE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS LESSON.

The WT conductor&#39;s wife, the PO, his wife, the WT reader and his wife, couple of kids, the speaker, and of course the one person who reads the entire answer from the publications!!!!!

I did not break a tooth, but I was chomping down on those mints so hard it was awful crunch crunch and crunch. I think I rubbed the skin off the top of my forehead and the side of my left temple. I also think I rippped a hole in the carpet as I almost jumped out of my seat and took the chair with me when I sprang up on paragraph 13-17.
Especially Paragraph 16:

"The other sheep recognize that they have greatly benefited from the diligent efforts of the FS in supplying them with timely spiritual food. ( OK, but did they stop there NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) They humbly acknowledge that WERE IT NOT FOR THE FDS, THEY WOULD KNOW LITTLE OR NOTHING OF PRECIOUS BIBLE TRUTHS, SUCH AS JEHOVAH&#39;S SOVEREIGNTY, THE SANCTIFICATION OF HIS NAME, THE KINGDOM, THE NEW HEAVENS ETC ET. ETC..But there is more!!!!!!!!!! OUT OF SHEER GRATITUDE AND LOYALTY, the other sheep lovingly support Christ&#39;s anointed brothers on the earth during this time of the end - MT 25:40.


I hope I am not discouraging anyone, because I think you all know that is not who I am, but this lesson almost made me sick to my stomach. By the way when I sprang from my chair and walked up the aisle, I thought oh goodness did I do that, however, hardly anyone noticed, they all kept their heads down and the few that looked up at me, just grinned. I felt stupid for about a mini second. My husband does not pay me any attention when I abruptly get up like that, I guess he thinks she really has to go, let me move out of her way. (Yeah right hmmmmmmmmmmmm)

One sister said for par 11. WE can have confidence about everything we read in the WT because the brothers have made sure they prayed to Jehovah and did research. So we have no need to worry. (Yes and I also had confidence at one time in the tooth fairy, Santa claus and the Easter bunny.)

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, just wait until we hit on a nerve that she does not agree with perhaps in the very near future. WE will see about the confidence level then hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. But I understand where she is for I was the same way at one time as many of us were also.
So I am not being arrogant, I&#39;m just sickened almost to tears.

This is frightening, very frightening so many are gonna be shocked in the future. This saddens me very very much. The comments that were made put the org on such a pedastal, my skin was actually beginning to itch it felt like something was crawling all over me, that is how disturbed the comments made me.

To be honest all, I was almost in tears due to all the praise they were giving the FDS. They did however, keep mentioning that Jesus was the head and he gives direction to the slave, Jesus is aware of everything in the congregation.

One comment I did snicker at was the brother who said, yes Jesus is aware of everything from the past and right up until now. The WT conductor said ahhh yes, thank you very much brother so and so. I just giggled to myself.

I dont even want to look over next weeks lesson

HUMBLY SUBMITTING TO LOVING SHEPHERDS. Well we will see what Gems we can get out of there.

Sorry for not be upbuilding, this WT was just toooooooooo much, and as Candi said very difficult to sit through.

Sisterly love

E & E

[Candace]

I also think I rippped a hole in the carpet as I almost jumped out of my seat and took the chair with me when I sprang up on paragraph 13-17.[/b]

Fortunately, in our hall, there is no carpeting and the chairs are all bolted into the floor. Otherwise, I can imagine one day I would probably fall over backwards and take a whole row with me, if we had chairs like in my old hall. (The kind that are hooked together at the arms and not bolted into the floor.)

Get one of those little stress balls you squeeze, it can hide in the palm of your hand. That way you can divert some of the energy from your jaws into your hands, and hopefully not crack a molar. :unsure:

[eyes&ears]

Candace, gonna pm ya OKEY DOKEY.

E & E

[Reader]

OOOO EEEE .

I&#39;m back, and that was a hard one. The sound of my eyes rolling in my sockets was deafening.

And most in our congregation ate it up. The conductor expounded upon how this is scripturally proven. There were those who were competing to comment on the worst paragraphs. EEEK.

My lips were sealed, though.

[Alex]

I did not attend todays WT study (fortunately!) I was not too well.

However, I endorse the previous comments of others, it was uncomfortable just reading the article through beforehand.

At our meetings the FDS is given lavish praise, a meeting hardly passes without some comment as to how thankful we all should be for the FDS, and how lost we would be without their &#39;timely spiritual food.&#39;

Jesus gets a token mention usually at the concluding prayer, &#39;in Jesus&#39; name&#39;, that&#39;s about all!

How proud Jesus must feel to have so many fine buildings, luxurious bethel homes, and immaculate factories, as &#39;earthly belongings&#39; to give to his &#39;faithful slave.&#39;....I think not! Where did Jesus go to lay his head?

Brotherly affection to all, Alex.

[Candace]

How proud Jesus must feel to have so many fine buildings, luxurious bethel homes, and immaculate factories, as &#39;earthly belongings&#39; to give to his &#39;faithful slave.&#39;....I think not! Where did Jesus go to lay his head?

Brotherly affection to all, Alex.[/b]

Don&#39;t forget the luxury cars!

www.circuitleasing.com

I hope you are feeling better Alex.

Take care,
Candace

[Berean]

Don&#39;t forget the luxury cars!

www.circuitleasing.com[/b]
:o And those are actually CO cars?

[Shibboleth]

I understand we need to have respect for those who take the lead. I found it difficult to understand that at the beginning of the article they talk about Jesus being solely in the lead but then it goes into talking about how we have to submit to the GB. So who is the leader? I understand the Christ as head and the body is the congregation but I stumble on some of the other things that were said in the article. I just had a hard time with it personally.

I personally still struggle with the fact Jesus found them worthy in 1914. Didn&#39;t we still celebrate Christmas and smoke and have the cross on our magazines at this time? So wouldn&#39;t the refining process take alot longer? I mean are we not still refining our teachings today? I think our organization has come a long way, but there are some things I find hard to believe.

I sometimes wish we would just stay with the core of Jesus&#39;s teachings and leave the interpertations out of it. I find when I live and try to emulate Jesus and His life I feel better. It&#39;s when I start reading about interpertations and how it&#39;s our way or no way is when I get a sick feeling in my stomach.

I look forward to the day when we can have an entire world of pure worship to Jehovah. there will be no questions that can&#39;t be answered when Jesus finally rules. I can&#39;t wait for that time when these questions we raise will be answered in full.

[Candace]

<div class='quotemain'>Don&#39;t forget the luxury cars!

www.circuitleasing.com[/b]
:o And those are actually CO cars?
[/b][/quote]

Some of them were driven by Bethelites. Not long ago one of the descriptions for a particular car boasted that a Bethelite had driven the car and it said something about the low mileage because it was used only for going around Brooklyn (something to that effect). But, to answer your question, yes, these are cars that were formerly in the circuit work.

The following is quoted from the Hosea essay (http://e-watchman.com/essays/hosea-message-for-jehovahs-witnesses.html):

"From its humble living-room Bible-study beginnings and rented store-front meeting places, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has grown to become an extremely successful international corporate entity. It is one of the largest publishing companies in the world. During a recent time of rapid expansion the Watchtower was also considered to be one of the largest construction companies in the world. It is even listed as the 37th most profitable corporation in New York City—raking in almost one billion dollars in 2001! That is quite something, indeed, seeing that New York City is home to many of the richest corporations in the world.

Apparently, the Watchtower even sponsors a car leasing program (http://www.circuitleasing.com/) in order to profitably unload cars previously used by circuit and district overseers. There is no question but that the Watchtower has enormous holdings in real estate, cash, stocks and bonds—all the trappings of a successful worldly corporation.

The Governing Body and other officers of the Watchtower Society live quite comfortably and are regarded by Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses as princes and kings and are given generous gifts wherever they travel. The Watchtower&#39;s physical facilities (http://www.bethel-tours.com/images/NY%20Farm.jpg) around the world, particularly Brooklyn Bethel (http://www.bethel-tours.com/images/office-complex.jpg), the lavish Stanley assembly hall (http://www.bethel-tours.com/images/Stanley-3.jpg) and more recently Patterson, are like holy shrines and Meccas beckoning the faithful to make their sacrificial pilgrimages—commonly called Bethel tours." (http://www.bethelcoachtours.com/english.htm)

[Shibboleth]

Candace FYI the Stanley Theater before the witnesses took it over was in real disrepair. They restored it to it&#39;s original elegance as per the historical society. If you have ever had a chance to tour this very beautiful building you would have alot of respect for what the witnesses did to this once famous music hall. It&#39;s elegant because we took the time to bring it back to it&#39;s elegance. We didn&#39;t buy it like this. there was alot of water damage and many people thought it was never going to be brought back to it&#39;s original condition.

I would urge anyone, even non witnesses, to go and check out this grand piece of history. I love music halls and I really love the old style music halls that my grandparents and great grandparents enjoyed. There are not many around and it&#39;s a real treat to see one in it&#39;s original condition.

This is one piece of history I am glad my contributions went into for repairs.

[Candace]

I understand we need to have respect for those who take the lead. I found it difficult to understand that at the beginning of the article they talk about Jesus being solely in the lead but then it goes into talking about how we have to submit to the GB. So who is the leader? I understand the Christ as head and the body is the congregation but I stumble on some of the other things that were said in the article. I just had a hard time with it personally.[/b]

We know Jesus is our Leader, but the man of lawlessness is trying to blur the line here. That&#39;s where it&#39;s going to be really important for us to be aware of what is going on, so we don&#39;t get mislead by the man of lawlessness. He sits down in the temple of the True God and makes himself a god (2 Thess. 2:4). We are going to see greater manifestations of this man of lawlessness as we get closer to the day of Jesus&#39; inspection.


I personally still struggle with the fact Jesus found them worthy in 1914.[/b]

Hasn&#39;t happened yet, because as it says in (2 Thessalonians 2:8) . . .Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

So, upon Jesus&#39; inspection of his congregation of anointed ones, he not only reveals who the man of lawlessness is, but brings him to nothing. Definitely hasn&#39;t happened yet.


Didn&#39;t we still celebrate Christmas and smoke and have the cross on our magazines at this time? So wouldn&#39;t the refining process take alot longer? I mean are we not still refining our teachings today? I think our organization has come a long way, but there are some things I find hard to believe.[/b]

There is a refining that is yet future for Jah&#39;s people. I think this essay on Joel (http://e-watchman.com/essays/watchtower-day-locust-attack.html) is an excellent source of insight regarding that.


I sometimes wish we would just stay with the core of Jesus&#39;s teachings and leave the interpertations out of it. I find when I live and try to emulate Jesus and His life I feel better. It&#39;s when I start reading about interpertations and how it&#39;s our way or no way is when I get a sick feeling in my stomach.

I look forward to the day when we can have an entire world of pure worship to Jehovah. there will be no questions that can&#39;t be answered when Jesus finally rules. I can&#39;t wait for that time when these questions we raise will be answered in full.[/b]

Many of us feel like we&#39;ve had to learn the truth all over again! We have to sift out the gobbledy gook as one of dear sisters says, hang on tight, and keep on trusting in Jehovah. I think it&#39;s going to get worse before it gets better, but we can prepare ourselves by studying the Bible and making sure of the truth in our own minds, and Jehovah promises his holy spirit will help us.

P.S. How is your seamstress coming along with your robes? Will she get them done in time for the convention? :lol:

[Candace]

Candace FYI the Stanley Theater before the witnesses took it over was in real disrepair. They restored it to it&#39;s original elegance as per the historical society. If you have ever had a chance to tour this very beautiful building you would have alot of respect for what the witnesses did to this once famous music hall. It&#39;s elegant because we took the time to bring it back to it&#39;s elegance. We didn&#39;t buy it like this. there was alot of water damage and many people thought it was never going to be brought back to it&#39;s original condition.

I would urge anyone, even non witnesses, to go and check out this grand piece of history. I love music halls and I really love the old style music halls that my grandparents and great grandparents enjoyed. There are not many around and it&#39;s a real treat to see one in it&#39;s original condition.

This is one piece of history I am glad my contributions went into for repairs.[/b]

I did get to tour the Stanley Theater, along with Brooklyn Bethel, and Patterson the summer of 2002. It was very impressive. It&#39;s a good thing the Society has made such good real estate investments in view of the lawsuits they have to pay out on now. They&#39;ve been selling off properties in Brooklyn for enormous profits, so those donations have been put to good use. ;)

Click here (http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=12562) and here (http://jehovahs-witnesses-news.blogspot.com/2007/05/more-on-watchtowers-brooklyn-heights.html) for some recent articles on Brooklyn real estate.

[Kenneth]

I real do wonder how much in the way of our contributions have been paid out in lawsuits. Surely if the Watchtower had nothing to answer too they would not have paid out such large sums of money without a fight , especially when it&#39;s been donated to the advancement of kingdom interests.

[clay]

Howdy DBoarders,
Echoing your thoughts regarding yesterdays throat-choking mostly-garbage paragraphs.
One exception, as a born cradle Catholic going to daily Mass during Lent, etc, the whole drill, when JW&#39;s 1st came to my door, I DID learn Basic Bible Truths, such as listed in para 16 from them. Yea, started me on The Path, whereas now know Im responsible for legislating my own religious education.
Now learning the Truth about the Truth, I give credit where it is due,,,but that is all.
After reading Ray Franz Crisis of Conscience (what an expose!) I dont believe much anymore. The GB lost my support, respect since they&#39;ve been infiltrated by Agents of Satan, and I understand that even Ray Franz has gone in off in some weird direction.

Next week will be just as hard, but,

This place is refreshing!

clay

[stayawake]

What I find really disturbing is to know
that our dear sincere loving brothers worked 24 hours a day by the sweat of their brow , to beatify these old buildings, and now the WT will make a millions on their labours.

Our brothers were convinced at the time they were doing it for Jehovah.
Yea !
tell me about it !
So now that they are no longer needed they are sending or did send many home.
They are heartless users.
If it weren&#39;t for our distributing the WT & Awake,the books etc. there would have never been a WTBTS.

But Jah did use them to regather the annointed (WHEAT) so Jahs purpose was fullfilled in them,
It was thru Jahs word that brought them out of false pagan teachings, but now they have become Pharaseeic
We can see now, His Holy Spirit is no longer supportong them.
They have gone from bad to worse just like His Nation did.

Like watchman brought out that Jahs Nation too was tolerated in order to fullfill Jahs purpose, as that is where the Messianic Seed would come from. The WT was used to gather the secondary seed that would rule with Christ

The WT is in the same line of disipline as Jahs Nation experienced in the year 70 AD .
These Shepherds have beaten the sheep and scattered them, but the beauty of it all is we have found Jehovah is here in the wilderness and it is He is our STONGHOLD.
It is He Jehovah that has set up His own Shepherds here to look after our souls
That is one of the BIG reasons that those inside are warned to stay off of the enternet, for fear if one of the sheep do get out of their box, Jahs spirit may direct them here to a pen of comfort , safety and TRUTH> This is how I see it . There fore I only speak for myself
love stayawake

[Shibboleth]

I&#39;m at the point where I just don&#39;t care anymore. I just want Jehovah to end this world and the suffering in it. What the WTBTS does is small potatoes considering what the entire world has to deal with. I know as a people that is supposed to be following the Christ we should hold ourselves up to a microscope. But truthfully if Jehovah punishes those who profess to be His, how much worse off would the entire world be when he punishes them? I might as well put the proverbial &#39;gun to my head and pull the trigger&#39;, cause I am not going to make it into the New Order if I am put under that much scrutny.

This is just coming from someone who has been beaten mentally and physically from a world of chaos daily. sleep is the only time I get any rest and then again I get plagued with nightmares only to wake up and do it all over again the next day.

[Candace]

This is just coming from someone who has been beaten mentally and physically from a world of chaos daily. sleep is the only time I get any rest and then again I get plagued with nightmares only to wake up and do it all over again the next day.[/b]

I hear you Shibbo. Sleep is like an escape, and sometimes I wish I wouldn&#39;t wake up the next morning! But then I do, and have to figure out how to cope with yet another day of life in this system of things.

But don&#39;t worry Shib, Jehovah is going to help us get through this:

(Acts 2:16-21) . . .this is what was said through the prophet Joel, 17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will prophesy and YOUR young men will see visions and YOUR old men will dream dreams; 18 and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist; 20 the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’

When we experience that outpouring of Jehovah&#39;s spirit, nothing will be impossible for those who are willing to call on the name of Jehovah.

Here&#39;s cheerful thought in Isaiah:

(Isaiah 30:15) 15 For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, has said: “By coming back and resting YOU people will be saved. YOUR mightiness will prove to be simply in keeping undisturbed and in trustfulness.”. . .

A few verses down from that it says:

(Isaiah 30:18-21) 18 And therefore Jehovah will keep in expectation of showing YOU favor, and therefore he will rise up to show YOU mercy. For Jehovah is a God of judgment. Happy are all those keeping in expectation of him. 19 When the very people in Zion will dwell in Jerusalem, you will by no means weep. He will without fail show you favor at the sound of your outcry; as soon as he hears it he will actually answer you. 20 And Jehovah will certainly give YOU people bread in the form of distress and water in the form of oppression; yet your Grand Instructor will no longer hide himself, and your eyes must become [eyes] seeing your Grand Instructor. 21 And your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: “This is the way. Walk in it, YOU people,” in case YOU people should go to the right or in case YOU should go to the left.

The GT isn&#39;t going to be a picnic, that&#39;s for sure, but Jehovah will help us get through it. He hasn&#39;t left us without a source of help, he&#39;s directed us to where we can find the spiritual encouragement we need to get through these difficult times. What a gift the Bible has proven to be, and how thankful we can be that there are people like Watchman who have the courage to speak the truth.

[stayawake]

Shibb,
My dearest brother ,please don&#39;t feel that way, we here are better off then anyone else in the WHOLE world.
Thru watchman Jehovah has revealed His deepest feelings toward His human shepherds which were the annointed shepherds ,tied in with the WTBTS.
He seen that all of this was going to take place, Thats why He had His prophets pen down the destiny of the WT

We have taken sides with Jehovah, there fore we are not in the dark as to what is coming.
We all here have been enlightened to Jahs word and movements. Jah seen to this movement. It was His time His purpose .

Our agony over finding we were decieved by the man of lawlessness, and readjusting our minds , was not easy. It was a daily struggle.
It was like being torn apart, afried to leave, afried to stay, not knowing what we should do, was really agony mind wise. I went thru torcher everytime it came to go to a meeting.
I was very fortunate as my family were going thru the same thing so we drifted away slowly,and are now at peace.

Keep in mind every ones situation is different, and those still staying , I am sure its for a good reason. One reason is they know they would lose contact with their families,
seondly Jah I am sure wants us to keep abreast as to whats going on inside.

So Dear Shibb this is part of our disipline what we are going thru right at the present.
Its like satan playing mind games with us. I know because I went thru that Hell, I was loyal 43 years and a very good example,in the cong.
I would have died for my beliefs three years ago.

When we are put into captivity with all of BTG, we at least will understand why, we are there.
but those inside the WT will not understand what is going on with the NWO, and to rebel before Jahs call goes out for us to
GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE< could cost a lot of our brothers in side their lives from the NWO.

Please Shibb it isnt going to be that Jah is going to turn on us.
He loves us deeply. We took sides with Him.We are His friends like Abraham was.
Dont be dispondent please, as we are really blessed and like I said in a place where no one else is.
A mindset and place of safety. We are being disiplined right now,but we know the outcome.

Of course there is no excaping the GT, If your neighbor doesn&#39;t have food , water or elec niether will you.If pestelences befall all around us there is no promise that we will be immune to whatever is going on,until Jah steps in to allow satans attack to take place on HIS annointed sons. That when our protection is assured.

Just think Shibb Jah loves those here so much that we the other sheep, will be working with the true sons of God in preaching the Kingdom of God Matt 24:14 that the GC is going to respond to/ The Kingdom set up will then really be GOOD NEWS
So lift your head high along with the True sons of God and look forward to the grand priveledge we are going to share in
when Jahs Holy Spirit is poured out as mentioned in the second Chapter of Joel/

WE have so much to look forward to that those inside the WT are in the dark about. They are going to lose out on what we are going to have a share in. Holy Spirit
That will be their DISIPLINE

Put a SMILE on that face Shibb,
As Jah is pleased with every one of us here, not to forget all those who are also lurking. You brothers and sisters looking in, your here because Jehovah seen that you would find us.
Think about it !
love you all very much
stayawake

[barry]

Yesterday evening we had our bookstudy and Watchtower study at the same time (sunday the zone overseer gives a special talk in Belgium).
This was about obedience and submission to the body of elders in the congregation. Especially interesting was a paragraph which mentioned what to do if an elder does not follow the guidelines of the GB.
According to the paragraph, we should stay obedient to him as elder. The elder will have to give account to Jehovah for his way of working.

I was wondering if that paragraph might have been inserted by the good slave? Because elders who are aware of the things happening in the organization, can try to guide the congregation with respect of their conscience. Elders who are also lurking/participating on these forums, can try to help the congregation and maybe not follow the rules of the GB.
With this paragraph, the members of the congregation are told to listen to these elders.

so, someone noticed this too?

[eyes&ears]

HMMMMMmmm Barry, now you have whet my appetite. I am going to skim through that WT lesson as soon as I log off, and letcha know what I found OKEY DOKEY

Thanks for your post.

Wow I never heard of doing the WT and BK Study together. :wacko: That must have taxed the minds a tad didn&#39;t it? Just curious.


Sisterly love

E & E

[eyes&ears]

Thank you Stayawake,

I always value your way of looking at these goings on. You insight is very helpful.

May Jehovah continue to bless you.


Sisterly Love

E & E

[barry]

Well, the WT and BK were both short versions of 30mins (WT was 50min in practice).

[eyes&ears]

HI SHIBBO,

I echo Everything Candace and Stayawake said to you.

I think we all have felt like that at one time or another. So all I will say SHIBBO my brother is HOLD ON TIGHT TO JEHOVAH AND HIS SON. NEVER MIND ALL THE GOOBLY GOOK OKEY DOKEY.

JUST STAY FOCUSED ON WHAT JEHOVAH SAYS. THIS IS WHAT KEEPS ME GOING WHEN I GET OVERWHLEMED.


Here are some interesting comments I read last night in the NIV Study application Bible on the books of Timothy.

It states

"There are many leaders and authorities today who DEMAND ALLEGIANCE, some of whom would even have us TURN FROM CHRIST TO FOLLOW THEM. When they seem to know the Bible, their influence can be DANGEROUSLY SUBTLE.

To protect yourself from the DECEPTION OF FALSE TEACHERS, you should LEARN WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES and REMAIN STEADFAST in your faith in God and Christ alone.

The false teachers were motivated by a spirit of curiosity and a desire to gain power and prestige. By contrast genuine Christian teachers are motivated by sincere faith and a desire to do what is right. It may be exciting to IMPRESS PEOPLE WITH OUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE, but high status based ON FALSEHOOD IS ULTIMATELY EMPTY.

Arguing about details of the Bible can send us off on interesting, but irrelevant tangents and cause us to miss the INTENT OF GOD&#39;S MESSAGE. The false teachers at Ephesus constructed vast speculative systems and then ARGUED about the MINOR DETAILS OF THEIR WHOLLY IMAGINARY IDEAS.

We should allow nothing to distract us from the Good News of Salvation in Jesus Christ,

We should know what the Bible says, apply it to our lives daily, and teach it to others. When we do this, we will be able to evaluate all teachings in light of the central truth about Jesus.

DON&#39;T focus on the MINUTE DETAILS OF THE BIBLE TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE MAIN POINT GOD IS TEACHING YOU.

I will conclude with what they said here:

The false teachers wanted to become famous as teachers of God&#39;s law, but they didn&#39;t EVEN UNDESRSTAND THE LAW&#39;S PURPOSE. The law WAS NOT MEANT TO GIVE BELIEVERS A LIST OF COMMANDS FOR EVERY OCCASION, BUT TO SHOW UNBELIEVERS THEIR SIN AND BRING THEM TO GOD.

Just some thoughts for ya SHIBBO. It is OKEY DOKEY TO feel down sometimes we are all human. But don&#39;t stay down in those dumps too long WE NEED YOU AROUND HERE AND SO DO LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE.

CONTINUE TO HOLD ON TO JEHOVAH&#39;S HAND, DON&#39;T LET YOUR FINGERS START SLIPPING OUT OKEY DOKEY SHIBBO.

We all love you and need you here.

LOTS OF WARM HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.


YOUR SISTER

E & E :Love: :wave:

[Kenneth]

Hope its OK to post the link. It’s a CNN news report on child abuse. It went out before Bill Bowen was disfellowshipped.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZpScLCMqEk...ated&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZpScLCMqEk&mode=related&search)=



Does anyone know on what grounds Bowen was disfellowshipped, the interview even suggests the victims would be disfellowshipped for speaking out.

[Cricket]

Dear Shibboleth

Hang in there my friend! It is very hard to keep going in this world. Sometimes it is like trying to run waist deep in mud to get things done. Remember to also look at all the beautiful things given freely to us.

Keep PS 55:22 in your heart: Throw your burden upon Jehovah himself, and he will sustain you. Never shall he let the righteous one to totter.

Let Him guide you - just have to let Him do so. That can be the hard part.

:okularnik: :40: Cricket