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eyes&ears
05-15-2007, 12:27 PM
I am posting Sunday's Watchtower lesson. I will do it little by little, don't want to lose any of it OKEY DOKEY.


Humbly Submitting To Loving Shepherds

"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive."
-Hebrews 13:17.


(1) Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus Christ, are loving Shepherds. Isaiah prophesied: "Look! The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will come even as a strong one, and his arm will be ruling for him....Like a shepherd he will shepherd his own drove. With his arm he will collect together the lambs; and in his bosom he will carry them. Those giving suck he will conduct with care." -Isaiah 40:10,11.

(2) That prophecy of restoration was first fulfilled when a Jewish remnant returned to Judah in 537 B.C.E., (2Chronicles 36:22, 23) It was again fulfilled when the anointed remnant were delivered from "Babylon the Great" in 1919 by the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ. (Revelation 18:2; Isaiah 44:28) He is Jehovah's "arm" for ruling, collecting together the sheep and shepherding them with tender care. Jesus himself stated: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me." - John 10:14.

(3) The prophey of Isaiah 40:10, 11 emphasizes the tenderness with which Jehovah shepherds his people. (PS 23:1-6) During his earthly ministry, Jesus too showed tender concern for his disciples and for people in general. (Mt 11:28-30, Mk 6:34) Both Jehovah and Jesus deplored the ruthlessness of the shepherds, or leaders, of Israel, who shamelessly neglected and exploited their flocks. (EZ 34:2-10; Mt 23:3,4, 15) Jehovah promised: "I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something for plunder; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep. And I will raise up over them one shepherd, and he must feed them, even my servant David. He himself will feed them, and he himself will become their shepherd." (EZ 34:22, 23) In this time of the end, Jesus Christ, the Greater David, is the "one shepherd" whom Jehovah has appointed over all His servants on earth, both the spirit-anointed Christians and the "other sheep." - Jn 10:16.

Heavenly Gifts to the Congregation



(4) By raising up over His servants on earth "one shepherd" - Jesus Christ - Jehovah gave a precious gift to the Christian congregation. This gift of a heavenly Leader was prophesied at Isaiah 55:4 "Look! As a witness to the national groups I have given him, as a leader and commander to the national groups." Both anointed Christians and members of the "great crowd" are gathered from among all national groups, tribes, peoples, and tongues. (Revelation 5:9,10; 7:9) They make up an international congregation, "one flock," under the leadership of "one shepherd," Christ Jesus.

(5) Jesus, in turn, has given a precious gift to his congregation on earth. He has provided faithful undershepherds who, in imitation of Jehovah and Jesus, shepherd the flock with tender care The apostle Paul spoke of this loving gift in his letter to Christians in Ephesus. He wrote: "When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts in men.'... He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ." - Ephesians 4:8, 11, 12.

(6) These "gifts in men" are overseers, or elders, appointed by Jehovah and his Son, through holy spirit, to shepherd the sheep with tenderness. (Acts 20:28, 29) To begin with, these overseers were all anointed Christian men. At Rev 1:16, 20, those who served on bodies of elders within the anointed congregation were symbolized by "stars" or "angels" in Christ's right hand, that is, under his control. In this time of the end, however, with the number of anointed overseers still on earth ever dwindling, the vast majority of Chritian elders in the congregations are of the other sheep. Since these are apponted by representatives of the Governing Body under the leadings of the holy spirit, they too can be said to be under the right hand (or, under the direction) of the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 61:5,6) Since the elders in our congregations submit to Christ, the Head of the congregation, they deserve our fill cooperation. - Col 1:18.

Obedience and Submission


(7) Our heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, expect us to be obedient and submisive to the undershepherds whom they have placed in positions of responsibility within the congregation. (1pet 5:5) Under inspiration, the apostle Paul wrote: "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out imitate their faith. Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." - Heb 13:7, 17.

(8) Notice that Paul invites us to "contemplate," or carefully observe the outcome of the faithful co nduct of the elders and to follow such examples of faith. Furthermore, he counsels us to be obedient and to submit to the direction of these appointed men. Bible Sccolar R. T. France explains that in teh original Greek, the word here translated "be obedient" is not "the normal term for obedience, but literally 'be persuaded,' i mplying a willing acceptane of their leadership." We obey the elders not only because we are directed to do so in God's Word but also because we are persuaded that they have Kingdom interests and our best interests at heart. We will certainly be happy if we willingly accept their leadership.

HMMMM (9) What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders' direction is the best way of doing things? That is where submission comes into play. It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly submissiive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided. (HMMMMMMM) Peter, who later became an apostle, showed this kind of submission. - Lu 5:4,5.

Four Reasons for Willing Cooperation

(10) At Hebrews 13:7, 17, quoted above, the apostle Paul gives four reasons why we should be obedient and submissive to Christian overseers. The first is that they "have spoken the word of God" to us. Recall that the "gifts in men" that Jesus gives to the congregation are for "the readjustment of the holy ones." (Eph 4:11,12) He readjusted the thinking and conduct of first-century Christians by means of faithful undershepherds, some of whom were inspired to write letters to the congregations. He used such spirit-appointed overseers to guide and build up the early Christians.-1Cor 16:15-18; 2Tim 2:2; Titus 1:5.


(11) Today, Jesus directs us by means of "the FDS," represented by its GB and the appointed elders. (MT 24:45) Out of respect for "the chief shepherd," Jesus Christ, we heed Pauls's counsel: "Have regard for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you." - 1 Pet 5:4; 1Thess 5:12; 1 Tim 5:17.

(12) A second reason for cooperating with Christian overseers is that "they are keeping watch over [our] souls." If they detect (HMMMMM) anything in our attitude or behavior that might endanger our spirituality, they are quick to give us needed counsel with a view to our readjustment. (GA 6:1) HMMMMM The Greek word translated "keeping watch" literally means "abstaining from sleep." According to one Bible scholar, it "implies the unflagging vigilance ofd the shepherd." In addition to their maintaining spiritual vigilance, elders may evenlose sleep out of concern for our spiritual well-being. Should we not willingly cooperate with such loving undershepherds, who do their best to imitate the tender care given by Jesus Christ, "the great shepherd of the sheep"? (Heb 13:20.

(13) A third reason for our willingly cooperating with the overseers is that they keep watch over us "as those who will render an account." Overseers remember that they are undershepherds, serving under the heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ (EX 34:22,-24) Jehovah is the Owner of the sheep, whom "he purchased with the blood of his own Son," and He holds the appointed overseers accountable for the way they treat His flock, which should be "with tenderness." (Acts 20:28,39) Hence, all of us are answerable to Jehovah for the way we respond (HMMNMM) to his direction. (Rom 14:10-12) Our obedience to the apointed elders also gives evidence of our submission to Christ the Head of the congregation. - Col 2:19. (HMMMMM)

(14) Paul gave a fourth reason why we should humbly submit to Christian overseers. He wrote: "That they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Heb 13:17) With their weighty responsibiliteis of teaching, shepherding, taking the lead in the preaching work, raising their families, and handling problems in the congregation, Christian elders carry a heavy load. (2Cor 11:28, 29) If we fail to cooperate with them, we only add to their load. This would result in their "sighing." Our showing an uncooperative spirit is displeasing to Jehovah and could prove to be damaging to us (HMMMMMMMMMMMM). Instead, when we show proper respect and cooperation, the elders can carry out their duties with joy, and this contributes to unity and joyful participation in the Kingdom-preaching work. - Romans 15, 5,6.

Demonstrating Our Submission

(15) There are many practical ways in which we can cooperate with apponted overseers. With a view to adapting to new circumstances in thee territory, have the elders arranged to hold meetings for field service on days and times that require changes in our routine? Let us put forth an effort to support the new arrangements. (HMMMMMM) We may receive unexpected blessings. Is the service overseer visiting our Congregation Book Study? Let us have as full a share as possible in the preaching work that week. Have we received an assignment in the TMS? We should make it a point to be present and to carry out our assignment. Has the Congregation Book Study overseer announced that it is our group's turn to clean the KH? Let us give him full support, within the limits of our health and strength. In these and many other ways, we demonstrate our submission to the men whom Jehovah and his son have appointed to care for the flock.

(16) HMMMMM At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its GB. (HMMMMM) If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1pet 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion (HMMMMM and HMMMMMM) - Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11.


Jehovah Blesses Willing Cooperation

(17) Jehovah God knows that the men he has appointed as overseers are imperfect. (HMMMMM) Yet, he is using them, and by means of his spirit, he shepherds his people on earth. It is true of the elders - and of us all - that "the power beyond what is normal [is] God's and not that out of ourselves." (2Cor 4:7) We should therefore thank Jehovah for what he is accomplishing by means of our faithful overseers, and we should show them willing cooperation.

(18) Overseers do their best to live up to Jehovah's description of shepherds appointed over his flock in the last days, as found at Jeremiah 3:15: "I will give you shepherds in agreement with my heart, and they will certainly feed you with knowledge and insight." (HMMMMMM) surely the elders in our midst are doing a fine job of teaching and protecing Jehovah's sheep. May we continue to show our appreciation for their hard work through our willing cooperation, our obedience, and our submission. In so doing, we will demonstrate our appreciation for our heavenly Shepherds, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

NOTE: Something happens to bold and italic when I try to use it in edit.
Don't know how to adjust that one.

Sisterly love to you all

E & E

Kenneth
05-15-2007, 01:28 PM
It was again fulfilled when the anointed remnant were delivered from "Babylon the Great" in 1919 by the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ. (Revelation 18:2; Isaiah 44:28)[/b]


In fact, at the very time that Christ Jesus was being enthroned as King of the heavenly kingdom in 1914 (Dan. 7:13, 14), Satan was permitted to enforce a grueling 'Babylonish-like captivity' upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919 (older pub)[/b]

Can someone explain how this supposed event took place? I've had difficulty with it for years. How was the society captive? How was Satan permitted to enforce a grueling 'Babylonish-like captivity' upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919? Did I miss something? What evidence is there to support any of this?


Without a fight Christ Jesus as the Greater Cyrus gained the upper hand over Babylon the Great. This meant bringing about her encirclement, her fall from seeming heavenly favor, her initial fall into Christ's superior hands of surveillance(older pub)[/b]

How did the Greater Cyrus gain the upper hand over Babylon the Great in 1919 when religion is flourishing today? In many countries JWs have been banned as a result of Christendom's actions.

Also if Christendom lost "heavenly favour" did that mean that they have Gods favour before 1919 even though they encouraging young men to fight in the name of God on both sides?

eyes&ears
05-15-2007, 01:42 PM
I don't know, it just seems not much is written today about love etc. It all seems to be about obedience, submission, loyalty to FDS and how terrible we are as Christians if we are not obedient to the FDS/org and how Jehovah will not be pleased.

I am very grateful for those hardworking shepherds and appreciate their concern. I believe all of Jehovah's people are grateful for the good we get, it is only when positions of leadership are abused and when those in position of leadership go beyond the things written.

It always seems that it falls on the sheep. No matter what..

I hope those from headquarters who may lurk here take that information back to those who print up these articles.

However, with all that said, I will do what Jehovah says for me to do and let him handle the details. That is what keeps me from losing it.

Love to you all CONTINUE TO HOLD ON TIGHT AS THINGS GET TIGHTER HMMMM.

Your Sister

E & E

barry
05-15-2007, 01:59 PM
So, what do you think of p16 about elders not doing as instructed by the GB?

Shibboleth
05-15-2007, 02:07 PM
Well I for one am very grateful we do have someone in the lead position to help organize the preaching work. I think I appreciate that most of all from the GB. Someone had to get the message out to the people. Russell took the ball and went with what he had. If he hadn't of done it someone else would have. Jehovah would have made sure of that. So I am grateful they have dispensed Bible truths to the world. No other religion has done it to this scale. Mormons are the only other religion besides ours that actually goes door to door.

I think we will see the light soon enough. All things will be made clear very shortly.

Jehovah has me going through the trials I deal with for a reason. I finally realized that just a short time ago. the trials I go through have humbled me greatly. Like Hosea going through the trials he had to with an aldulterous wife. What a humble man he must have been to take her back. Jehovah will do the same for us like He did for Israel. If His spiritual Israel has been aldulterous it's up to Jehovah to decide what to do. I will never pass judgement on anyone. that's not my place.

Molly
05-15-2007, 02:34 PM
It was again fulfilled when the anointed remnant were delivered from "Babylon the Great" in 1919 by the Greater Cyrus, Jesus Christ. (Revelation 18:2; Isaiah 44:28)[/b]


In fact, at the very time that Christ Jesus was being enthroned as King of the heavenly kingdom in 1914 (Dan. 7:13, 14), Satan was permitted to enforce a grueling 'Babylonish-like captivity' upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919 (older pub)[/b]

Can someone explain how this supposed event took place? I've had difficulty with it for years. How was the society captive? How was Satan permitted to enforce a grueling 'Babylonish-like captivity' upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919? Did I miss something? What evidence is there to support any of this?


Without a fight Christ Jesus as the Greater Cyrus gained the upper hand over Babylon the Great. This meant bringing about her encirclement, her fall from seeming heavenly favor, her initial fall into Christ's superior hands of surveillance(older pub)[/b]

How did the Greater Cyrus gain the upper hand over Babylon the Great in 1919 when religion is flourishing today? In many countries JWs have been banned as a result of Christendom's actions.

Also if Christendom lost "heavenly favour" did that mean that they have Gods favour before 1919 even though they encouraging young men to fight in the name of God on both sides?
[/b]


Kenneth-

To your question, "Can someone explain how this supposed event took place?" The answer is that it cannot be explained because Jesus has not yet been enthroned. Therefore, the grueling Babylonish captivity is yet ahead of JWs. Their explanation is simply ludicrous nonsense. The attack on JWs that will take place will be so extraordinary that it will astound the nations. Only a remnant will survive. Think back about the devastation that Jerusalem experienced when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and the picture becomes more clear. To think that the captivity in prison for a relatively short period of time compares to the destruction of Jerusalem makes absolutely no sense.

"How did the Greater Cyrus gain the upper hand," you ask. He hasn't, so don't worry about how to explain it. That will only make you crazy. That also is in the future.

Molly

eyes&ears
05-15-2007, 02:37 PM
So, what do you think of p16 about elders not doing as instructed by the GB?[/b]

(16) At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its GB. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1pet 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion - Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11.

************************************************** **********

This is what my opinion is Barry.

That unfortunate elder will first render and account to those human leaders who are doing the so called directing. (HMMMMMM) and when they get done with him he will either do it their way or hit the highway.

As for him rendering an account to Jehovah I would not let them scare me with that. IMO that is a scare tactic. We all know we are accountable to Jehovah that is not even an issue period.

I agree that we should not be belligerent or ignorant (my words) due to the elders' actions, mistakes failures, or at any time really. Two wrongs do not make a right (as the saying goes) But I believe in my heart if we have been wronged we should stand up for ourselves.

And oh yes, Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion from them either. So what is good for the goose is good for the gander. (another saying)

I just weed out the DIGESTIBLE FOOD FROM THE SCARE TACTICS AND GOOBLY GOOK SPAM. I NEVER DID LIKE SPAM IT IS YUCKY AND TOO SALTY. At this time for me, they just do not scare me anymore with that kind of fast food. It just gives me heartburn and indigestion.

Love to all my family KEEP HOLDING ON OKEY DOKEY

E & E

Kenneth
05-15-2007, 03:00 PM
so don't worry about how to explain it. That will only make you crazy. That also is in the future.

Molly[/b]

Hi Molly

I knew that there was no answer as it never happened in the first place. I’m just trying to workout what line of reason they gave to makeup such a story and why I along with millions of others believed it. We don't believe in Jack and the beanstalk or Alice in wonderland as fact do we, yet they are just as credible in comparison to 1919 and its enchantments. But then perhaps we all like a fairy story or two.

Nambo
05-15-2007, 08:55 PM
Can someone explain how this supposed event took place? I've had difficulty with it for years. How was the society captive? How was Satan permitted to enforce a grueling 'Babylonish-like captivity' upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919? Did I miss something? What evidence is there to support any of this?[/b]

Kenneth, various members of the Governing Body, 8 if I remember correctly, where imprisoned in America for 3 and half years, then they where exonorated and relaced.
It does kind of fit the prophecy but who really noticed?, how knows of this now getting on for 100 years later?

Ive a feeling the real fullfillment of the prophecy is going to be a bit more Earth shattering and everybody will know of it.

Candace
05-15-2007, 08:59 PM
(16) At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its GB. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1pet 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion - Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11.

When I read that paragraph, the first thing that came to my mind was Acts 5:29, We must obey God as ruler, rather than men. After all, an elder may tell us not to go to the police when a crime has been committed. (It's happened) To obey the elder could possibly put a person at risk of further harm, or put other people at risk. And if your common sense tells you to go to the police, then do it.

I think instead of having blind obedience to a human, that we all need to use our Bible trained conscience to decide when obedience is appropriate and when it is not. One would have to discern why an elder is not doing things the way the GB has outlined. Is it out of ignorance? Forgetfullness? Or are they deliberately not following protocol because their conscience won't allow them to? There are so many different scenarios this could take. So, whether or not to be obedient to those taking the lead means having our perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong, so if someone is going down the wrong path we don't follow them like a blind sheep.

Likely, there will come a time when our conscience won't allow us to do something that someone in a position of authority requires us to do. As long as we have been feeding our mind with good spiritual food, we should be able to make the right decision. To some, we may appear to be rebellious or disobedient, but what is Jehovah's point of view? That is the one we need to care about.

Kenneth
05-15-2007, 09:52 PM
<div class='quotemain'>Can someone explain how this supposed event took place? I&#39;ve had difficulty with it for years. How was the society captive? How was Satan permitted to enforce a grueling &#39;Babylonish-like captivity&#39; upon the anointed remnant on earth from 1914 to 1919? Did I miss something? What evidence is there to support any of this?[/b]

Kenneth, various members of the Governing Body, 8 if I remember correctly, where imprisoned in America for 3 and half years, then they where exonorated and relaced.
It does kind of fit the prophecy but who really noticed?, how knows of this now getting on for 100 years later?

Ive a feeling the real fullfillment of the prophecy is going to be a bit more Earth shattering and everybody will know of it.
[/b][/quote]
Hi Nambo

I&#39;m pretty clear on the history of the Watchtower, I&#39;m just trying to figure out why I swallowed it.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time"

Juan
05-16-2007, 04:07 AM
I&#39;m pretty clear on the history of the Watchtower, I&#39;m just trying to figure out why I swallowed it.[/b]

Don&#39;t worry about it. I&#39;m sure many of us swallowed it at one time.

Dorcas
05-16-2007, 05:01 AM
Dear Ones on this Thread...
We do have several avenues open to us when obvious poor judgment or unchristian conduct is displayed by an elder. During my many years in the Truth, twice I have taken an elder before the body, several times I asked to meet privately with elders, and on several occasions I have gone to the Circuit Overseer. I know the brothers want us to be meek and mute, but I don&#39;t find a scripture to back that up. They forget we do the bulk of the preaching and teaching work. The situation becomes especially tricky when your husband is not a dedicated person.
One day soon, we sisters won&#39;t be 2nd class citizens in the world because Christ will really be in charge!
Extra love to all who wait...
Dorcas http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

eyes&ears
05-16-2007, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the reminder regarding 2nd class citizens Dorcas. It does get tiring at times and I have experienced this and it is not fun, I have had to take a stand also and I would not back down. It turned out OKEY DOKEY. But trust me I know I am marked with A BIG MARK SAYING DANGER THIS ONE IS A FIGHTER SHE WON&#39;T GO QUIETLY!! :fight.sml:


Sisterly love

E & E